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MSPs and accounting firms have a lot of shared DNA. My guest today thinks that accounting is paving the way for MSPs in AI adoption.  Peter McCarroll has spent over 30 years in public accounting, and he's been helping other firm owners rethink how they price and deliver their work as AI takes over the routine stuff. His view is that accounting is the canary in the coal mine for professional services, with MSPs next in line. Today we're looking at what's already happening in his industry and what MSP owners can learn from it before it reaches them. This episode is brought to you by Opsleader Pro. A place for MSP owners and managers to get the systems and tools they need to build a stable and growing MSP. Part group coaching, part peer group, everything you need to run a successful MSP.

Today we're talking about something every MSP is running into right now: how do you let your team actually use AI without turning your ticket data into someone else's training set. My guest today is Callen Sapien. Callen is currently building Synthreo, an AI infrastructure platform built specifically for MSPs and SMBs, and before that he was Chief Strategy Officer over at MSPbots. Here's how I've been framing this one. We spent a decade dragging our clients to the cloud. Then we spent a decade dragging them to security. And now our clients are dragging us into AI, whether we're ready or not. So today Callen and I are digging into how you actually give your whole team AI superpowers without blowing up your PII exposure in the process. This episode is brought to you by Opsleader Pro. A place for MSP owners and managers to get the systems and tools they need to build a stable and growing MSP. Part group coaching, part peer group, everything you need to run a successful MSP. (00:00) - AI Risk for MSPs (01:10) - Ticket Data and PII (03:18) - Three Safety Buckets (05:56) - Zero Data Retention (14:00) - Shadow AI in SaaS (15:54) - Protecting Process IP (19:41) - From Prompts to Agents (22:31) - Cloud vs Local Models (26:01) - Hallucinations and Guardrails (29:15) - Batching and Delegation (37:34) - Managed Intelligence Opportunity (41:21) - Synthrio Approach and Portability (44:13) - Governance and Back to Basics (46:49) - Wrap Up and Contact

We've got a repeat guest on the show today. Alex Dow is back. Co-founder of Mirai Security, and currently an enterprise security architect for a large financial firm, and honestly one of my favorite people to talk security with. Alex has done federal security work, and securing the actual Olympics, now then a security consulting firm. If you've been listening a while, you might remember Alex from way back in episode 11 and then again in episode 96. Today's round three, and we're going fully nerd-out mode on the OpenAI/Hugging Face hack. Walking through the signals and understanding how this type of attack was seen from a defensive side. The timeline visualization of the Hugging Face attack that Alex referenced. This episode is brought to you by Opsleader Pro. A place for MSP owners and managers to get the systems and tools they need to build a stable and growing MSP. Part group coaching, part peer group, everything you need to run a successful MSP. (00:00) - Welcome Back Alex Dow (00:50) - What Happened in the Hack (02:22) - Mythos and AI Hype (06:05) - Throughput Beats Creativity (08:04) - Sandbox Escape Explained (11:02) - Swarm Agents and Breadcrumbs (14:13) - Reward Hacking and Alignment (19:30) - Four Days Undetected (21:27) - Blue Team Limits and Guardrails (25:28) - Detecting AI in the Noise (30:50) - Using Your AI Against You (34:30) - Honeytokens and Deception (37:22) - Zero Trust as a Baseline (38:59) - AI Botnets and Key Theft (43:01) - Wrap Up and Takeaways

Josh Hobein, manager of cybersecurity and automation at Centrex IT, discusses how MSPs can be run like five-star restaurants by prioritizing service, empathy, and experience over mere SLA “checkbox” performance. Drawing on his background in restaurant management, he explains how hospitality skills translate to tier-one helpdesk and why culture is defined by what leaders tolerate, requiring top-down standards, accountability, recognition, and sometimes letting misaligned people go; Centrex’s ESOP model also supports ownership and buy-in. On security, he describes a simplified five-stage maturity model built from cyber insurance requirements and CIS controls (favoring CIS for its programmatic implementation groups) to help non-technical owners understand progress via a roadmap. He cautions against fear-only security selling, advocating education-based conversations, and emphasizes business-decision-focused tabletop exercises (including IRGame.ai) plus the importance of cyber insurance and minimum security baselines. Check out a scene from The Bear that demonstartes what choosing excellence looks like. This episode is brought to you by Opsleader Pro. A place for MSP owners and managers to get the systems and tools they need to build a stable and growing MSP. Part group coaching, part peer group, everything you need to run a successful MSP. (00:00) - Meet Josh Hobein (00:41) - Michelin Star MSP Mindset (02:25) - Hospitality to Helpdesk (04:39) - Service That Wins Loyalty (06:56) - Beyond SLAs With XLAs (09:36) - Leading Culture and Standards (13:06) - From IT to Restaurants Back (19:13) - Frameworks Without Jargon (22:11) - Five Stage Security Maturity (23:28) - Maturity Model Roadmap (24:57) - Fear vs Education Sales (26:00) - Dark Web Scan Reality (29:02) - Trust Through Assessments (30:17) - Cyber Insurance Minimums (32:26) - Walking Away From Risk (33:04) - Waivers and Enforceability (34:41) - Minimum Standards and Compromises (36:28) - Tabletops for Executives (39:13) - Roleplay High Stakes Decisions (41:15) - Practice Like a Restaurant Rush (42:16) - Next Monday Action Steps (43:39) - Closing and Resources

Evolve or Evaporate: Erik Boles on MSP Branding, Anti‑Commoditization, and Human‑Led Marketing On the Evolved Radio podcast, Todd Kane interviews Erik Boles about why many MSPs look identical online and how that commoditizes them into “line items.” Erik shares his background from early internet businesses to VAR/MSP-era engineering, MX Logic, and early Pax8, explaining that customers care about outcomes and experience more than products or stacks. He argues brand is a result created by people, presence, and “lore,” and that templated marketing gets ignored due to pattern recognition and how the brain filters ads. He recommends MSPs differentiate through human-led communication, storytelling, and documenting real problems in plain business language, often via simple, authentic video rather than polished production. They discuss parasocial relationships, decision-making biases, AI-driven search/answers, and why personal brand should dominate corporate brand (about 95/5) to build trust and demand over time.  Links mentioned: opsleader.co; vosa.co/erik; @erikbolz. This episode is brought to you by Opsleader Pro. A place for MSP owners and managers to get the systems and tools they need to build a stable and growing MSP. Part group coaching, part peer group, everything you need to run a successful MSP. (00:00) - MSPs Becoming Line Items (00:15) - Meet Eric Bowles (01:44) - From Engineer to Brand Strategist (03:28) - Outcomes Over Product Demos (04:42) - Behavioral Psychology Roots (06:21) - Brand as a Result (08:37) - Pax8 Experience Differentiator (10:29) - Why Template Marketing Fails (12:35) - Neuroscience of Attention Filters (16:04) - Talk Human Not Geek (18:37) - Document Dont Create Content (19:45) - Define Sally Your Real Persona (20:35) - Authenticity Beats Perfect Video (23:15) - Communication Presence and Zoom Fatigue (25:31) - Stage Presence Basics (26:25) - Reps Over Perfection (27:28) - Authentic Content Wins (27:52) - Capture Client Call Gold (29:57) - Differentiating MSPs (31:13) - Emotion Drives Decisions (33:05) - AI Search Changes Buying (35:04) - Parasocial Trust Building (43:16) - Personal Brand First (46:14) - Human Led Marketing Era (47:50) - Where To Find Eric (48:52) - Just Do It Anyway (49:34) - Handling Online Hate (50:15) - Wrap Up And Thanks

Automation as Core Strategy: Aarin Bailey on RPA, AI, and Scaling MSP Operations On the Evolved Radio podcast, Todd interviews Aarin Bailey, COO at Webit Services and former COO at MSP Bots, about treating automation as a core MSP operating strategy. Aarin describes how his automation focus accelerated around COVID by chaining PowerShell scripts, later expanding into Python, GUIs, and modular systems connected via RESTful APIs, with much of the computation running outside the RMM on servers (including SQL and Python) while the RMM remains mainly a monitoring and job-push layer. They discuss whether RMM is a “zombie product,” the ongoing role of PSA/ticketing as a system of record, and managing complexity through separate modules and staff literacy in Python/RPA. Aarin explains build-vs-buy decisions driven by ROI and fit, cites automated triage/dispatch with ~98% accuracy and shifting token costs, argues AI should augment rather than replace humans, and emphasizes documentation, playbooks, and focusing on operational “bad” anomalies. They also cover client tolerance for AI, limiting client-facing AI after hallucinated ticket notes, skepticism about voice AI, and concerns about AI economics and subsidies. This episode is brought to you by Opsleader Pro. A place for MSP owners and managers to get the systems and tools they need to build a stable and growing MSP. Part group coaching, part peer group, everything you need to run a successful MSP. (00:00) - Automation First Mindset (01:10) - Aaron Origin Story (05:04) - From Scripts to Platforms (05:41) - Beyond the RMM Beehive (08:35) - Is RMM a Zombie (12:14) - Managing Complexity Safely (14:33) - Build vs Buy ROI (19:39) - Token Costs and Pair Coding (23:49) - AI Security Reality Check (27:34) - Scaling with Playbooks (30:12) - Hunt the Bad Stuff (30:59) - Blueprints Before Automation (32:46) - Ticket Volume and Vision (33:32) - Saying No as Integrator (35:44) - Healthy Disagreement Dynamics (37:08) - Client Facing vs Backend AI (40:05) - AI Hallucinations and Guardrails (43:05) - Voice AI and Live Answer (46:06) - Costs and Subsidized AI Era (49:26) - Outcome First and RPA Focus (51:36) - Wrap Up and Thanks

Victor Lopez on Fixing Broken MSP Financial Plumbing with AI Todd interviews Victor Lopez, a former attorney and private credit professional at Blue Owl Capital who co-founded Flexpoint after seeing how clunky MSP financial tools were. Victor traces his "aha" back to Blue Owl financing Thoma Bravo's 2018 acquisition of ConnectWise, which led him to question why PSAs mix ticketing/project work with invoicing while still requiring separate accounting software. They discuss how most AI talk in the MSP industry centers on service delivery, but Victor argues owners should also apply AI to operations like accounts receivable/payable, collecting and making payments, payroll, and other non-revenue tasks that often fall on owner-operators (especially in sub-$1M MSPs).  Victor describes AI agents, including voice AI for overdue invoice calls, and emphasizes human-in-the-loop controls, segmenting which customers are contacted, and escalation to a human to protect relationships while improving efficiency and owner quality of life. This episode is brought to you by Opsleader Pro. A place for MSP owners and managers to get the systems and tools they need to build a stable and growing MSP. Part group coaching, part peer group, everything you need to run a successful MSP. (00:00) - Meet Victor Lopez (01:20) - From Law to Flexpoint (02:02) - ConnectWise Deal Spark (02:57) - Why PSA Billing Exists (05:35) - AI Beyond Tickets (08:13) - Operational AI Wins (14:09) - Agentic AI for AR (16:50) - Join Opsleader (17:26) - Controls and Oversight (22:09) - Voice Agents Calling Clients (28:27) - Owner Time and Quality (32:20) - Wrap Up and Takeaways

Preparing to Sell Your MSP: Emotions, Valuation, Deal Structure, and Exit Planning with Amy Babinchak Today on the Evolved Radio podcast, I welcome Amy Babinchak, a 22-time Microsoft MVP and author of "20 Questions Every Owner Asks Before Selling Their MSP," about planning an MSP sale years in advance. Babinchak describes the emotional impact of selling—often resembling grief—and stresses having a purpose and plan for life after the exit. They discuss avoiding pressure to "time the market," noting there is always demand for a well-run profitable business, and the need to prepare both operations and personal finances with a CPA, tax lawyer, financial planner, and business lawyer. The conversation covers deal structure tradeoffs (cash, time commitments, and total value), common earn-out/retention periods owners find miserable, valuation drivers like profitability, standardization, and running without the owner, typical multiples for small and mid-sized MSPs, and options for smaller firms such as selling a book of business or rare seller-financed sales to employees.  This episode is brought to you by Opsleader Pro. A place for MSP owners and managers to get the systems and tools they need to build a stable and growing MSP. Part group coaching, part peer group, everything you need to run a successful MSP. (00:00) - Meet Amy Babinchak (01:12) - Why Plan Ahead (02:21) - Emotional Aftermath (04:15) - Life After Exit (06:44) - No Need To Rush (08:55) - Prep Business And Personal (10:16) - Build Your Sale Team (12:19) - Deal Structure Tradeoffs (16:45) - Know Your MSP Value (17:59) - How Buyers Value You (20:05) - What Buyers Value (20:48) - Opsleader Pro Break (21:24) - Realistic MSP Multiples (23:11) - Selling Small MSPs (25:15) - Books of Business Wins (27:03) - Buyer Options Overview (27:28) - Seller Financing to Team (31:00) - PE Size Thresholds (32:13) - Rollups and Stability (33:22) - Vetting PE Partners (37:33) - Legacy Over Price (39:15) - Book Wrap Up (40:55) - Final Takeaways

Ashley Cooper on Lovable, Local-First AI Apps, and Safe Agent Workflows for MSPs The host interviews Ashley Cooper (COO at Cyber Drain, VP of Community at Rewst) about her use of Lovable and other AI coding tools to build small, local-first, deterministic apps and learn through prompting. Ashley describes receiving a Lovable contributor gift after ranking in the top 0.01% of users, her early failed attempt to rebuild community software, and her shift to rapid, browser-based prototypes like JSON-to-CSV converters, receipt/expense and food trackers, and a webhook-driven PSA time-entry timer. She explains her workflow moving from Lovable scaffolding to GitHub/VS Code with Copilot, plus experimenting with Bolt and tools like OpenClaw, emphasizing trust boundaries, least privilege, and treating agents like employees. They discuss prompt engineering using philosophical mental models, risks of unvetted "vibe-coded" SaaS, and advising MSPs to start with data readiness and education before deploying AI for clients. This episode is brought to you by Opsleader Pro. A place for MSP owners and managers to get the systems and tools they need to build a stable and growing MSP. Part group coaching, part peer group, everything you need to run a successful MSP.

Ever wonder what really happens behind the scenes when a rocket-ship MSP vendor goes from scrappy startup to multi-billion dollar public company? Today, I'm talking with Michael Fass, former Datto general counsel and now CEO at Slide. Michael's seen the vendor/MSP relationship from every angle—legal, operational, and now as a co-founder, building Slide for the MSP channel. If you want a brutally honest look at what hypergrowth actually looks like from the inside, why most MSPs never get past "just technical," and how to avoid being the cobbler with ragged shoes, this episode is for you. You'll walk away knowing how to spot your "butter zone" in leadership, and a new way to think about partnering with the tech vendors in your stack. This episode is brought to you by Opsleader Pro. A place for MSP owners and managers to get the systems and tools they need to build a stable and growing MSP. Part group coaching, part peer group, everything you need to run a successful MSP.

Today, we have a unique perspective on AI, courtesy of our guest, Jeff Gaines with Treeline.ai. In this episode, we're exploring what it truly means to be "AI-first" in the MSP space—not just adding AI as a feature, but building it into every layer of the operation for a fundamentally different approach to service delivery. If you've been following the rapid changes in software, automation, and managed services, you won't want to miss this episode. We're getting into operational strategy, technology adoption, and the future of MSPs in the age of AI. This episode is brought to you by Opsleader Pro. A place for MSP owners and managers to get the systems and tools they need to build a stable and growing MSP. Part group coaching, part peer group, everything you need to run a successful MSP.

In today's episode, I'm joined by John Capobianco to talk about what John calls "VibeOps." If you've ever wondered where network automation and AI intersect—or how the next evolution of IT operations could look almost like managing a team of digital coworkers, you're going to love this one. Hear how John went from working in an aluminum factory to managing the network for the Canadian House of Parliament. John explains VibeOps and J shares practical advice for MSPs, how to get started with agentic tools safely, and where he thinks the whole industry is headed. If you're curious about building your own AI-powered assistants, augmenting your IT workflows, or just want a better handle on demystifying "the network layer," this episode is packed with insights. Resources: John' Github Repo John's YouTube Channel --- This episode is brought to you by Opsleader Pro. A place for MSP owners and managers to get the systems and tools they need to build a stable and growing MSP. Part group coaching, part peer group, everything you need to run a successful MSP.

Today's topic is close to my heart and, honestly, one that doesn't get enough airtime in the IT industry: health and wellness. Joining me for this conversation is my Paul Vedder, CEO of VXIT, a return guest you might remember from a Episode 77. We're talking about what it takes to prioritize our physical and mental health—while juggling the endless demands of business ownership, parenthood, and life in the tech world. Paul unpacks his personal journey: from the challenges of work-life balance and struggles with unhealthy habits, to discovering the power of change through things like the 75 Hard challenge, ditching alcohol, and building sustainable routines that actually stick. We dig into the importance of accountability, how discipline can unlock true freedom, and why sometimes the smallest steps—like a daily walk—can have the biggest impact. If you've ever felt like you can't find the time, energy, or motivation to look after yourself, this episode is going to speak to you. We get honest about the trade-offs, the wins, and why choosing to invest in your well-being pays off in every other aspect of your life and business. So, whether you're listening on your lunch break, out for a walk, or just looking for that spark to get started—stick around. There's a lot of practical wisdom, some laughs, and maybe that nudge you've been needing to make a positive shift. This episode is brought to you by Opsleader Pro. A place for MSP owners and managers to get the systems and tools they need to build a stable and growing MSP. Part group coaching, part peer group, everything you need to run a successful MSP.

Today I'm speaking to Mike Psenka, CEO of Moovila, once again. If you missed our previous episode together, Advanced Project Management—episode 104—I highly recommend checking it out for some great insights. Today, we're diving into a topic that's been top of mind for me and, honestly, I believe not enough people in the MSP industry are paying close attention to it: project management and profitability. We'll break down some eye-opening stats about how 25% of the MSP channel is either breaking even or losing money—and how poor project management is often the hidden culprit, even when service delivery is profitable. We're going deep into why projects are causing financial headaches and customer churn, and, more importantly, what MSPs can actually do to fix it. Mike and I will talk through real-world challenges, practical fundamentals, and how AI and automation are changing the game for project delivery. Whether you're struggling with projects, worried about client retention, or just looking to level up your operational maturity, this episode is packed with actionable advice. This episode is brought to you by Opsleader Pro. A place for MSP owners and managers to get the systems and tools they need to build a stable and growing MSP. Part group coaching, part peer group, everything you need to run a successful MSP.

Today I'm joined by Matt Tougas, CEO of Mizo. We'll explore how Matt's background as a software engineer and MSP operator led him to develop Mizo, an AI-powered help desk automation platform. We discuss the realities of AI adoption in the MSP industry, why AI agents can sometimes outperform humans in quality and consistency, and why Canadian companies have such an outsized impact in the global MSP software ecosystem. We're talking MSP innovation, Canadian tech pride, and the real-world impact of agentic AI in service operations. Let's get started! This episode is brought to you by Opsleader Pro. A place for MSP owners and managers to get the systems and tools they need to build a stable and growing MSP. Part group coaching, part peer group, everything you need to run a successful MSP.