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Matt Edelman is Chairman, CEO, and President of Super League, a company operating at the intersection of gaming, advertising, and technology. Matt describes his leadership philosophy as a "benevolent monarchy," balancing the responsibility to make tough decisions with genuine care for the people affected by them. Authority matters, but so do humility, trust, and honest communication. We discuss what experienced leaders can learn from younger generations, particularly when it comes to technology, digital communities, and new ways of working. Matt also shares how gaming and AI can change the way organizations approach learning, onboarding, collaboration, and employee development. One of the more interesting themes is the notion that leaders don't need to know more than the people they lead. Matt's experience working with brands in Roblox and the gaming industry reinforces the importance of trusting people who know things we don't. Ultimately, our conversation comes back to a fundamental leadership challenge: How do you maintain high standards, make difficult decisions, and give people the autonomy and opportunity to do their best work? Find episode 535 on The Leadership Podcast, on YouTube @theleadershippodcast, or wherever you get your podcasts! Watch this Episode on YouTube | Key Moments How Gen Z and Gen Alpha experience community through participation, conversation, and shared digital spaces. Why transparency, information sharing, and keeping your word build trust with younger employees. How leaders can learn from younger colleagues by admitting what they don't know. Using hands-on AI projects to help employees build skills and take on new responsibilities. Why Matt believes business is moving away from autocratic leadership toward a balance of authority and compassion. Why difficult leadership decisions require brutal honesty and clear communication. Setting clear expectations while trusting employees to manage their work. How gaming offers insights into authenticity, personal agency, and different levels of commitment. What Matt's work with brands in Roblox and gaming teaches leaders about trusting specialized expertise. Applying gaming principles to employee onboarding, recognition, rewards, and career progression. Matt's Challenge: Spend 30 minutes learning a new game from someone you know to build a stronger connection. The Leadership Podcast is sponsored by W.S. Darley & Company. Founded in 1908, Darley remains a family owned and operated business, providing the highest quality equipment solutions to our country's warfighters and firefighters. Learn more at darley.com and darleydefense.com Memorable Quotes "I have learned over the course of my career that actually not knowing is a wonderful place to sort of be comfortable." "That relationship where you're giving somebody who works for you, the ability to help you be stronger, is a relationship that is going to endure the test of time." "The age of autocracy in business is probably coming to an end. That doesn't mean that a business has to function democratically." "At the heart of leadership needs to be compassion." "The trick is brutal honesty." "As a leader, other people need to know what you expect from them" "People in virtual worlds are their most authentic selves." "When you practice something, you get better at it." Explore the full archive at www.theleadershippodcast.com or wherever you get your podcasts! Resources Mentioned The Leadership Podcast | theleadershippodcast.com Sponsored by | www.darley.com Rafti Advisors. LLC | www.raftiadvisors.com Self-Reliant Leadership. LLC | selfreliantleadership.com Matt Edelman Website | www.superleague.com Matt Edelman LinkedIn | www.linkedin.com/in/mattedelman

George Couros, author of "The Innovator's Mindset," and "Forward, Together," is an internationally recognized speaker on innovation and leadership. George explores why lasting change depends less on persuasion and more on participation. He discusses the importance of listening to skeptics, encouraging disagreement, and building trust so people feel comfortable challenging ideas. At its core, the conversation asks a simple question: Is leadership about getting people to follow your vision, or creating the conditions for them to shape it and take ownership? Key Moments -Adapting innovation to the realities and resources of an organization. -Giving students the freedom to pursue their own ideas and take an active role in learning. -The distinction between buy-in and ownership, and the value of involving people in shaping a shared vision. -Inviting skeptical families into the process and incorporating their feedback into educational change. -The limits of data and evidence when people lack an emotional connection to change. -Building trust that allows people to challenge ideas and try unfamiliar approaches. -The difference between debate, which focuses on winning, and discussion, which seeks the best solution, including George's experience publicly criticizing Dave Burgess. -Measuring leadership success by how much better others become, while allowing people to contribute their strengths to a shared direction. The Leadership Podcast is sponsored by W.S. Darley & Company. Founded in 1908, Darley remains a family owned and operated business, providing the highest quality equipment solutions to our country's warfighters and firefighters. Learn more at darley.com and darleydefense.com Memorable Quotes "It's not about your idea or my idea. It's about the best idea. It doesn't matter where it comes from." "Debate is focused on winners and losers. Discussion is focused on finding the best solutions." "If people do not feel an emotional connection to it, that's when you lose them." "When I make everyone else better because of my leadership, I win." "Leadership is not something you bestow upon yourself. It's something that others bestow upon you." "People love it when their fingerprints are on the solution." "There's nothing I've ever asked anybody to do, ever, that you don't see me doing." Explore the full archive at www.theleadershippodcast.com or wherever you get your podcasts! These are the books mentioned in this episode The Innovator's Mindset by George Couros Forward, Together by George Couros How to Win Friends and Influence People by Dale Carnegie Resources Mentioned The Leadership Podcast | www.theleadershippodcast.com Sponsored by | www.darley.com Rafti Advisors. LLC | www.raftiadvisors.com Self-Reliant Leadership. LLC | www.selfreliantleadership.com Website | www.georgecouros.com LinkedIn | www.linkedin.com/in/georgecourosim

Bouchra Danwra, CEO of DHOW Marcom Agency and global communication strategist, believes meaningful progress begins when we look beyond titles, achievements, and generational differences. Through her You Are What's Next initiative, Bouchra brings young graduates and CEOs together to challenge conventional definitions of success, share perspectives, and discover common ground. In this conversation, she explores the power of curiosity, honest dialogue, and questioning traditional career paths. She reminds leaders that wisdom flows both ways between generations—and that while we cannot always choose where we begin, we can take ownership of what comes next. Key Moments -How a question from her graduating children inspired Bouchra to create You Are What's Next -Why there is no universal answer to what comes next, and why honest conversations can help people find their own way -How removing titles and achievements from introductions helps leaders connect with young graduates as people -Why meaningful communication depends on genuine curiosity and the flow of conversation, not simply cultural differences -The hopes, fears, worries, and dreams that connect people across generations and backgrounds -Why real human stories offer something that polished content and online interactions cannot replace -Why slowing down creates space for creativity, reflection, and new ideas -How Bouchra turned the challenges of her upbringing into motivation to shape her own life -The "standalone kingdom" idea: accepting that you cannot choose where you start, but you can choose where you go -The butterfly theory: why following the same path as everyone else can make it harder to stand out, and why choosing a different direction matters

Carlos Gutierrez, the 35th U.S. Secretary of Commerce and former chairman and CEO of Kellogg, discusses his career spanning global business, public policy, international trade, and leadership in both the private and public sectors. In his book, "Sheer Will: Learning to Lead When There Is No Path," he reflects on the experiences that shaped his approach to leadership. His path to the CEO's office and eventually to government was not planned as a straight line. It was shaped by a simple principle he learned from his father: there is no substitute for results. In this conversation, we explore the less visible work of leadership: building trust, developing relationships, making difficult decisions, and understanding that leadership is shaped by every person a leader encounters. His experience in business and government reinforced the importance of humility, adaptability, and understanding the environment in which leadership takes place. For Carlos, ambition is most useful when it is connected to something larger than the individual. The conversation ultimately returns to a fundamental question: what is the real work of a leader? Carlos's answer is not simply delivering results. It is earning the trust of people, making the difficult decisions when necessary, and creating an environment where others can succeed. Key Moments Why Carlos focused on doing the job in front of him well rather than planning for the CEO's office The leadership lessons Carlos learned from his father: results, tough decisions, and accountability How becoming a refugee shaped Carlos's view of failure, opportunity, and perspective What Carlos learned from watching his father handle failure with grace and honor Why trust does not mean leaders always make decisions people will like Why humanity and courage are essential to leadership Everyone you touch in a company is a potential advocate How Carlos experienced the difference between business and government leadership The "warehouse of trust" leaders build over time Why ambition works best when it serves something bigger than yourself What failure taught Carlos about opportunity, risk, and recognizing luck Why developing talent remains essential in an age of AI The Leadership Podcast is sponsored by W.S. Darley & Company. Founded in 1908, Darley remains a family owned and operated business, providing the highest quality equipment solutions to our country's warfighters and firefighters. Learn more at darley.com and darleydefense.com Memorable Quotes "There's no substitute for results." "In order to be a good business person, you have to be an honorable person." "People see in leaders things that leaders don't see in themselves." "We don't understand how transparent we are to others that see us." "Leadership is about trust. People have to trust the leader." "Everybody is involved in politics." "Everyone you touch in a company is a potential advocate." "People are going to talk about you. What do you want them to say about you?" "Build up a warehouse of trust." "Believing in something bigger than yourself is essential for any leader." Explore the full archive at www.theleadershippodcast.com or wherever you get your podcasts! These are the books mentioned in this episode Sheer Will: Learning to Lead When There Is No Path by Carlos Gutierrez Resources Mentioned The Leadership Podcast | theleadershippodcast.com Sponsored by | www.darley.com Rafti Advisors. LLC | www.raftiadvisors.com Self-Reliant Leadership. LLC | selfreliantleadership.com Linkedin | www.linkedin.com/in/carlos-gutierrez/

Humans have always formed tribes. At work, those tribes emerge around far more than shared goals. They form around who we trust, where we feel we belong, what we believe, and what we stand to gain or lose. Those workplace tribes can strengthen an organization or quietly work against it. Jim Vaselopulos and Jan Rutherford examine what leaders can do to shape the conditions that influence behavior, looking beyond individual performance to the environment, incentives, and norms people respond to. They also explore four ways leaders affect the people and systems around them: subtraction, division, addition, and multiplication. That same environment determines whether people speak up, take risks, and challenge one another, or stay quiet out of fear. Jim and Jan explore psychological safety, the tension between developing people and getting mission-critical work done, and why leadership requires continually balancing priorities that are often in conflict. Ultimately, much of it comes back to belonging. Where people feel they belong shapes whom they trust, what they are willing to say, how they behave, and what they are willing to do for the group. Find episode 531 on The Leadership Podcast, on YouTube @theleadershippodcast, or wherever you get your podcasts! Key Moments - Why tribalism hasn't disappeared, even as the reasons for belonging have changed - How culture and incentives shape the behavior leaders see - Creating a tribe without creating an "us vs. them" culture - What high school can teach us about tribalism - The four approaches to leadership: subtraction, division, addition, and multiplication - What Morgan Housel's Same as Ever says about human behavior - Why fear is such a powerful force in organizations - What psychological safety looks like in practice - The tension between developing people and doing the work that matters most - Why leadership is a continuing journey of balance - The value of having someone who can challenge your thinking - Why belonging can be more powerful than truth The Leadership Podcast is sponsored by W.S. Darley & Company. Founded in 1908, Darley remains a family owned and operated business, providing the highest quality equipment solutions to our country's warfighters and firefighters. Learn more at darley.com and darleydefense.com Memorable Quotes "Leadership by subtraction is, in a sense, bullying." "Leadership by division is, for us to thrive, you have to lose." "Leadership by addition is, how do we bring everybody together?" "Leadership by multiplication is, how do I create the next set of leaders?" "Fear is probably the biggest emotion that we have to deal with in the work world." "People don't want the truth, they want to belong." "The art of leadership, not just the science." "Leadership is the constant ability to balance competing priorities, competing needs, competing interests." Explore the full archive at www.theleadershippodcast.com or wherever you get your podcasts! These are the books mentioned in this episode Same as Ever by Morgan Housel Influenced from Above by Brian Ahern Resources Mentioned The Leadership Podcast | theleadershippodcast.com Sponsored by | www.darley.com Rafti Advisors. LLC | www.raftiadvisors.com Self-Reliant Leadership. LLC | selfreliantleadership.com

Ron Johnson is the creator of the Apple Store, a sought-after speaker, board member, and the author of Shop Different: How Retail Revealed Apple's Genius. He spent much of his career in retail, including leadership roles at Target, Apple, and J.C. Penney. Ron discusses the thinking behind the Apple Store and what he learned working alongside Steve Jobs. One of the most revealing moments came when the team was six months into designing the first store and realized the concept was all wrong. Jobs agreed to start over, even though it meant delaying the launch. The conversation explores what that experience taught Ron about vision, intuition, and the willingness to rethink an idea when circumstances change. He also reflects on his experience at J.C. Penney, where he moved too quickly, relied too heavily on his own conviction, and did not bring the team along. Throughout the conversation, Ron returns to a theme that runs through his career: bold leadership requires conviction, but it also requires the humility to listen, adapt, and recognize when a better path has appeared. Key Moments The three-hour conversation with Steve Jobs that defined the Apple Store vision How Ron learned to lead through big ideas instead of constant direction Why the first Apple Store had to be completely rethought The courage to hit rewind after six months of work Why Apple designed its stores like a five-star hotel What J.C. Penney taught Ron about compromising on a vision Why intuition matters, and why sometimes you need to count to ten What happens when nobody pushes back on the leader Why kindness is different from being nice How kindness creates an environment where people can do their best Bringing your best and most authentic self to work The Leadership Podcast is sponsored by W.S. Darley & Company. Founded in 1908, Darley remains a family owned and operated business, providing the highest quality equipment solutions to our country's warfighters and firefighters. Learn more at darley.com and darleydefense.com Memorable Quotes "You gotta bring people along, listen really attentively to other people's ideas." "The highest form of kindness is telling the truth." "Kindness is a choice you make at work." "Kindness enables people to be their best because they're working in an environment of love and not fear." "If you get one chance in life, bring your best self to work every day." "Don't just do things because you think that's what people would expect you to do." "I've always done well by pursuing what I intuitively believe is the right way to solve a problem and not relying on what others do." Explore the full archive at www.theleadershippodcast.com or wherever you get your podcasts! These are the books mentioned in this episode Shop Different: How Retail Revealed Apple's Genius by Ron Johnson Excellence Wins by Horst Schulze Resources Mentioned The Leadership Podcast | theleadershippodcast.com Sponsored by | www.darley.com Rafti Advisors. LLC | www.raftiadvisors.com Self-Reliant Leadership. LLC | selfreliantleadership.com Website | www.ronjohnsonshopsdifferent.com LinkedIn | www.linkedin.com/in/shopdifferent

Geoffrey Cain is an award-winning investigative journalist and bestselling author. A former correspondent for The Economist and TIME, he has spent more than 15 years covering technology, geopolitics, and global business. His latest book is "Steve Jobs in Exile." Geoffrey explores the lesser-known years after Steve Jobs was pushed out of Apple, and how that period changed the way he approached leadership. Jobs had the vision and creativity, but he had to learn how to connect those ideas with people, markets, and the realities of building a business. The conversation examines why leaders need people who will disagree with them, what Jobs learned from Pixar and NeXT, and why infrastructure and trust matter as much as vision. Geoffrey also discusses the role of adversity in developing leaders, and what the emerging AI revolution might teach us about navigating uncertainty and limits. At the center of the conversation is a simple leadership lesson: knowing when to stay the course is important, but so is recognizing when the path needs to change. Find episode 529 on The Leadership Podcast, on YouTube @theleadershippodcast, or wherever you get your podcasts! Key Moments [04:47] What Steve Jobs' wilderness years revealed about leadership [08:25] The difference between having a vision and building a business [09:09] Why the original Macintosh was a commercial failure [12:00] What Jobs learned about solving real customer problems [13:30] Knowing when to stay the course and when to change direction [14:28] Why leaders need people who will disagree with them [19:05] The value of cross-directional thinking [20:32] What Pixar and NeXT taught Jobs about trust and boundaries [23:14] Why infrastructure matters as much as vision [26:06] How adversity shapes leaders [29:28] The opportunities and risks of AI [34:57] Working within limits without losing the vision The Leadership Podcast is sponsored by W.S. Darley & Company. Founded in 1908, Darley remains a family owned and operated business, providing the highest quality equipment solutions to our country's warfighters and firefighters. Learn more at darley.com and darleydefense.com Memorable Quotes "If you find yourself agreeing with yourself too much, that's the red flag right there." "You need to select people who are willing to push back on you and push back hard." "The risk and the shadow of that ambition and that passion is that it's hard to see when something isn't going to work." "Build it and they will come is no way to run a business when there are investors on the line." "Leadership is not just about the leader. Leadership is about the people who you're leading." "There's a huge difference between a leader who never has to go through those hard times and the one who does have to face it." "That's not failure, that's learning. That's learning where the wall is." "If there's a wall in front of you, look around the corner. Maybe there's another door somewhere." "Sometimes a vision just turns out not to be all that. And that's when it's time to think different and try something new." Explore the full archive at www.theleadershippodcast.com or wherever you get your podcasts! These are the books mentioned in this episode Steve Jobs in Exile by Geoffrey Cain Samsung: The Perfect Police State by Geoffrey Cain Resources Mentioned The Leadership Podcast | theleadershippodcast.com Sponsored by | www.darley.com Rafti Advisors. LLC | www.raftiadvisors.com Self-Reliant Leadership. LLC | selfreliantleadership.com Website | www.geoffreycain.net LinkedIn |www.linkedin.com/in/gcain X | @geoffrey_cain

Shawn Achor is one of the world's leading experts on the connection between happiness and success. His research on mindset has appeared in Harvard Business Review, his TED Talk has been viewed more than 25 million times, and he is the New York Times bestselling author of The Happiness Advantage and Big Potential. His latest book is The Power of Beliefs: How Strengthening Seven Core Beliefs Predicts Greater Success and a Better Life. Shawn explores how our beliefs shape not only how we experience the present, but what happens next. He explains why positive statements alone often fail to create change—and how pairing a belief with evidence and an "if-then" qualifier can turn it into something actionable. He walks through seven core beliefs, including that our behavior matters, we matter, we are not alone, our work is meaningful, and there is something to be grateful for. The conversation also explores FOMO, social connection, team cohesion, burnout, and the negative expectations leaders can unintentionally create. Shawn explains how reframing stress as meaningful can change its effects and why the beliefs circulating within a team can influence both well-being and performance. Throughout, Shawn returns to a central idea: beliefs are not simply reflections of our circumstances; they can help shape what becomes possible. He offers practical ways leaders can strengthen productive beliefs in themselves and in the people around them. Key Moments Why positive belief statements don't always move people forward How "if then" statements connect belief to action The four forces working against our beliefs The seven core beliefs Shawn wants people to strengthen Why "my behavior doesn't matter" and "I'm alone" are so damaging Why social connection predicts happiness and success Why people need to pursue solutions with one another How doing something together cut burnout in half Why FOMO is connected to fantasy What social cohesion has to do with performance How leaders can unintentionally create nocebos Why finding meaning in stress changes its effects Why success doesn't guarantee happiness The Leadership Podcast is sponsored by W.S. Darley & Company. Founded in 1908, Darley remains a family owned and operated business, providing the highest quality equipment solutions to our country's warfighters and firefighters. Learn more at darley.com and darleydefense.com Memorable Quotes "If the brain is positive, outcomes improve dramatically." "The beliefs we hold can predict what happens next in our lives." "When you believe your behavior doesn't matter, you stop moving forward." "When you believe you're alone, you stop believing your actions will work." "We often compare our real lives to fantasies we create about other people's lives." "Doing positive things together can reduce burnout and improve outcomes." "You can change the effects of stress by changing what you believe the stress means." "Success doesn't guarantee happiness. A positive brain leads to better outcomes." "We can strengthen the belief that we matter by looking for evidence that we do." Explore the full archive at www.theleadershippodcast.com or wherever you get your podcasts! These are the books mentioned in this episode The Power of Beliefs by Shawn Achor The Happiness Advantage by Shawn Achor Big Potential by Shawn Achor Influence by Robert Cialdini Resources Mentioned The Leadership Podcast | theleadershippodcast.com Sponsored by | www.darley.com Rafti Advisors. LLC | www.raftiadvisors.com Self-Reliant Leadership. LLC | selfreliantleadership.com Website | www.shawnachor.com LinkedIn | www.linkedin.com/in/shawnachor Instagram | www.instagram.com/shawnachor Facebook | www.facebook.com/shawnachor TED | www.ted.com/speakers/shawn_achor

David Robson is an award-winning science writer and author of The Intelligence Trap, The Expectation Effect, and The Laws of Connection. His work has appeared in the BBC, New Scientist, and The Guardian, and has been translated into more than 15 languages. David explores why intelligence and expertise don't always protect leaders from bad judgment. He explains how the "curse of expertise" can create overconfidence, why good leaders actively look for evidence that challenges their assumptions, and why leadership requires skills beyond professional expertise. He also examines how expectations shape performance, how leaders can unintentionally undermine others, and why warmth, competence, and vulnerability are essential to trust and influence. Throughout the conversation, David offers practical ways to question assumptions, strengthen relationships, and make better decisions. The Leadership Podcast is sponsored by W.S. Darley & Company. Founded in 1908, Darley remains a family owned and operated business, providing the highest quality equipment solutions to our country's warfighters and firefighters. Learn more at darley.com and darleydefense.com Memorable Quotes "Listen to your intuitions. But then interrogate that as if it's just another piece of data." "When you've reached such a high level of expertise, you can actually become far too overconfident in your judgment." "Becoming a leader requires learning a completely different skill set." "Stress is debilitating or stress is energizing. You get to choose your mindset." "Showing vulnerability is actually a great way of demonstrating warmth and competence." "The beautiful mess effect: when leaders admit to mistakes, followers' loyalty actually increases." "We overestimate how clear our message is. You have to check that you're both singing from the same songbook." "Express genuine curiosity explicitly. It's incredibly disarming and reduces polarization." "Being self-critical is counterproductive. It clouds your thinking and damages your health." Resources Mentioned The Leadership Podcast | theleadershippodcast.com Sponsored by | www.darley.com Rafti Advisors. LLC | www.raftiadvisors.com Self-Reliant Leadership. LLC | selfreliantleadership.com Website | www.davidrobson.me 60-Second Psychology | davidarobson.substack.com LinkedIn | www.linkedin.com/in/david-robson-5761791b X | @d_a_robson

Lee Benson, CEO of Execute to Win and Wall Street Journal bestselling author of "Your Most Important Number," and "Value Creation Family," believes families and organizations have something in common: they're perfectly designed to produce the results they get. In this conversation, Lee explains why removing every obstacle—whether for employees or children—often creates dependence instead of ownership. He explores why healthy struggle is essential for developing resilience, how creating value matters more than chasing success, why lowering expectations delays independence, and how the same leadership principles that build accountable organizations also build capable families. Whether you're leading a company, raising children, or doing both, this conversation offers practical insights for developing responsibility, resilience, and a lifelong commitment to creating value for others. Find episode 526 on The Leadership Podcast, on YouTube @theleadershippodcast, or wherever you get your podcasts! Key Moments [03:48] Why musicians peak young, according to Lee [07:05] Applying "organizations are perfectly designed" to family [09:57] Why families build dependency instead of ownership [13:14] Unsupervised 70s kids vs. sheltered kids today [16:52] Lee's origin story: kicked out at 17 [18:45] Success vs. intentionally creating value [23:41] Healthy struggle vs. unhealthy struggle [31:55] The leadership behavior that quietly destroys value [37:55] The moment success and value creation split for Lee [41:40] The three value buckets: material, emotional, spiritual [44:48] Lee's closing challenge to listeners Memorable Quotes "Don't be a victim. Be a developer, not a victim." "All the opportunity in the world is in the struggle." "We create the environment from which everybody creates value." "Goals matter, systems to achieve goals matter more. Leadership matters most." "Positive emotional energy, to me, is the scarcest commodity on the planet." "How we show up with their potential is a really big deal." "Everyone's a leader all the time." Explore the full archive at www.theleadershippodcast.com or wherever you get your podcasts! These are the books mentioned in this episode Resources Mentioned The Leadership Podcast | theleadershippodcast.com Sponsored by | www.darley.com Rafti Advisors. LLC | www.raftiadvisors.com Self-Reliant Leadership. LLC | selfreliantleadership.com Website | www.etw.com Podcast | www.etw.com/syv-podcast Facebook | www.facebook.com/ETW.executetowin LinkedIn | www.linkedin.com/in/lee-j-benson Instagram | www.instagram.com/executetowin TLP137: How to Spend 60% of Your Time With Your Employees

David Craig is the author of the Bluebook: How Bold Leadership Unlocked a $27 Billion Success Story, and the former CEO of Refinitiv. David believes organizations rarely fail because of strategy or market conditions. They fail when complexity quietly replaces clarity, making it harder for people to make decisions, serve customers, and move the business forward. In this conversation, David shares the three warning signs he looks for when walking into a struggling company: unclear purpose, meeting overload, and a poor customer experience. David also discusses why creating belief and ownership matters more than having all the answers during transformation. If your organization feels slower, more complicated, or harder to lead than it should, this conversation offers practical lessons for simplifying complexity and leading change with greater clarity. Find episode 525 on The Leadership Podcast, on YouTube, channel @theleadershippodcast, or wherever you get your podcasts! Watch this Episode on YouTube | David Craig on When Complexity Becomes the Biggest Obstacle https://bit.ly/TLP-525 Key Moments [03:58] The moment he realized the organization was the obstacle [05:58] Are people, technology, and money the real system [07:22] Leadership practice that matters most in uncertainty [11:40] Is stagnation a leader or system failure [13:48] Creating belief and ownership through change [15:36] The sacrifice conviction actually demands [17:38] Three signs complexity is killing performance [20:00] Why nobody runs effective meetings anymore [23:32] The leadership lesson transformation books skip [25:35] What matters more than the rearview numbers [28:43] Who taught David to bring out the best in people [30:41] The one sentence that sums up the Blue Book Memorable Quotes "Maybe we're not the problem. Maybe the system's the problem." "Many companies thrive by repeating in the same way what works, what is successful, what are the systems that they put in place." "Certainty never really exists. You can rely on certain things happening, but not forever." "There is a mindset that says you embrace change and uncertainty. Some companies thrive on it." "The races are won on the corners, not the straights." "Transformation is a technical challenge, but it's an emotional journey." "Don't b******t people, but actually say, look, if we get through this... just think how fast are its customers going to be for them." "Complexity is like a disease. And you don't always see it. That's the problem." "Don't build your title, build your CV." "Feeling is an undervalued attribute in leadership." "Success in life is not about one or two things. It's doing everything in the right way at the right time, with the right conviction you're going to succeed." "Success doesn't necessarily come from breakthrough innovation, but from flawless execution. A great strategy alone won't win a game or a battle. The win comes from basic blocking and tackling." Explore the full archive at www.theleadershippodcast.com or wherever you get your podcasts! These are the books mentioned in this episode Resources Mentioned The Leadership Podcast | theleadershippodcast.com Sponsored by | www.darley.com Rafti Advisors. LLC | www.raftiadvisors.com Self-Reliant Leadership. LLC | selfreliantleadership.com David Craig Website | www.bluebook.business David Craig LinkedIn | www.linkedin.com/in/davidwicraig

Patrick Emmons is the founder of DragonSpears and president of Improving Chicago. For more than two decades, he has built, scaled, and sold technology companies while helping organizations develop stronger leaders and healthier teams. Patrick believes the strongest organizations don't depend on a few exceptional leaders. They grow because leaders are developed at every level. In our conversation, we explore why authentic leadership begins with accepting feedback before asking others to change, why coaching and consistent reinforcement develop stronger teams than annual performance reviews, and how building frontline leaders creates organizations that can grow without relying on micromanagement. If you're building a team that can grow beyond your own leadership, this conversation offers practical lessons for developing leaders throughout your organization. Find episode 524 on The Leadership Podcast, on YouTube, channel @theleadershippodcast, or wherever you get your podcasts! Watch this Episode on YouTube | Patrick Emmons on The Best Leaders Build More Leaders https://bit.ly/TLP-524 Key Moments [03:55] Patrick's career journey and the leadership lessons he picked up along the way [08:11] The role sales and relationship-building play in entrepreneurial success [11:10] Selling Dragon Spears: what it feels like to let go of your baby [15:47] How selling the business reshaped Patrick's view on leadership [19:07] The secret to having difficult conversations [21:04] Why leaders avoid hard conversations, and how to break the pattern [24:02] What coaching kids sports teaches about coaching people at work [28:06] Coaching a remote team without the sideline advantage [30:45] How AI will reshape sales, selling, and human relationships [32:28] Why a candid, unscripted video beats a polished blog post [35:21] Becoming relevant to people before you try to sell to them Memorable Quotes "People can smell when you're not being real." "Your lack of success in the academic environment does not predict future success or lack thereof in the workplace." "Leadership at every level is something that's just not seen as much of a strategic advantage as it could be." "Things don't get better with time." "Kids are less complicated. They're less nuanced at hiding their things." "You've got to keep reinforcing, and you got to simplify the vernacular." "When you can simplify down, you can grow." "Become relevant to the people you want to sell to before you try to sell to them." "Humans buy from humans. Because of human problems, not software problems." "There's no greater self help program in the world than being an entrepreneur because you got nobody to blame but yourself." "Ask them what you can be doing better and you'd be amazed what you get out of it." "Strive not to be a success, but rather to be of value." - Albert Einstein Explore the full archive at www.theleadershippodcast.com or wherever you get your podcasts! Resources Mentioned The Leadership Podcast | theleadershippodcast.com Sponsored by | www.darley.com Rafti Advisors. LLC | www.raftiadvisors.com Self-Reliant Leadership. LLC | selfreliantleadership.com Patrick Emmons Podcast| Innovation and the Digital Enterprise Podcast Patrick Emmon LinkedIn | www.linkedin.com/in/patrickemmons

Purpose isn't something you find once and follow forever. It's something you practice every day. Tom Rath is the #1 New York Times bestselling author of StrengthsFinder 2.0, How Full Is Your Bucket?, Eat Move Sleep, and his latest book, What's the Point?: Turning Purpose Into Your Daily Superpower. After decades studying what helps people thrive, Tom believes we've been thinking about purpose all wrong. Instead of waiting to discover some singular calling, he argues that purpose is built through the choices we make and the questions we ask every day—starting with one simple question: What's the point? In our conversation, we explore why leadership has become too self-focused instead of centered on what others need, how small daily decisions shape a meaningful life, and why the rise of AI makes human judgment, relationships, and genuine conversations more valuable than ever. If you're looking to lead with greater intention, make better decisions, and build work that truly matters, this episode offers a practical framework for turning purpose into something you live—not just something you chase. Find episode 523 on The Leadership Podcast, on YouTube, channel @theleadershippodcast, or wherever you get your podcasts! Watch this Episode on YouTube | Tom Rath on The Daily Question That Changes How You Lead https://bit.ly/TLP-523 Key Moments [04:03] The leadership belief Tom has changed his mind about in six years [05:42] Why purpose isn't a grand concept, it's built into every hour [08:34] Passion vs. meaning vs. purpose, and why "follow your passion" is bad advice [11:12] Balancing self, purpose, and business reality — managing the leadership "triad" [14:46] The radiologist study: how a simple photo changed diagnostic accuracy [17:10] Why leaders are the worst role models for well-being, and what to do about it [20:51] How AI is rewriting the social contract between responding and creating [22:55] Success vs. usefulness, and what headstones actually say [24:40] The "two deaths" — Jim's take on legacy and what outlives us [28:18] The one habit leaders can't skip: modeling, not mandating [32:29] The single question Tom believes every leader should ask daily [35:41] How Tom's view on team fabric vs. self-understanding evolved since StrengthsFinder [37:20] The common thread across all of Tom's books, from bucket-filling to purpose Memorable Quotes "Purpose is really something that you build into every hour of your day." "I think being useful is a lot more important [than being successful]." "Success and achievement push you further into the hamster wheel in a lot of cases." "If the hour is your currency and the response is your hammer, you will have the first jobs to be automated and displaced." "Leaders on average are the worst role models in that regard, full stop." "The more time you spend focusing on your own happiness and how to make yourself happy, that has diminishing returns and doesn't really work out as well as most people imagine." "You don't always know that you have tomorrow. You got to do it today." "Our strengths are only relevant in the context of a relationship or a contribution to the world." "The sole meaning of life is to serve humanity." - Leo Tolstoy Explore the full archive at www.theleadershippodcast.com or wherever you get your podcasts! These are the books mentioned in this episode Resources Mentioned The Leadership Podcast | theleadershippodcast.com Sponsored by | www.darley.com Rafti Advisors. LLC | www.raftiadvisors.com Self-Reliant Leadership. LLC | selfreliantleadership.com Tom Rath Website | tomrath.org/careersight Tom Rath LinkedIn | www.linkedin.com/in/trath Tom Rath episode | TLP198: Life's Great Question - with Tom Rath

Kim Svoboda is the founder of Aspiration Catalyst and author of BOLD Leadership: The Adventure of Building Excuse-Proof, Goal-Crushing Teams. Kim argues that leadership isn't about position, power, or title. It's about creating a vision others believe in while leading in a way that aligns with your values. Too many leaders achieve external success without ever asking whether the life they're building reflects what matters most. In this conversation, Kim shares how a simple values exercise exposed the gap between the leader she wanted to be and the life she was actually living. She explains how that experience became the foundation for her BOLD framework (Brilliant vision, Oneness, Lighthouse leadership, Daring drive), why intentional leadership starts with knowing what you stand for, and how leaders create stronger cultures by serving as a lighthouse for others rather than simply driving results. If success looks good on paper but feels disconnected from what matters most, this conversation is a practical reminder that leadership begins with leading yourself first. Find episode 522on The Leadership Podcast, on YouTube, channel @theleadershippodcast, or wherever you get your podcasts! Watch this Episode on YouTube | Kim Svoboda on Stop Building a Life That Looks Good but Feels Wrong https://bit.ly/TLP-522 Key Moments [06:12] From running a $1B P&L to feeling burnt out, disengaged, and miserable at the top [10:51] What being a BOLD leader really means and the yin-yang of boldness [13:34] Why leaders spend all day firefighting instead of doing what actually matters and the antidote [15:26] Nature vs. nurture: how much of team performance is leadership, how much is selection [19:05] How one toxic top performer can quietly derail an entire high-performing team [22:48] Why employee engagement has been stuck for a decade — and what actually drives it [28:17] Why leaders lose intentionality — and how to reclaim your circle of control [35:10] Business ethics and trust — what companies are getting right, and where they overstep [39:22] Kim's closing thoughts — leadership isn't about position or title, it's about what you create Memorable Quotes "Bold is a framework for being an intentional leader and bringing everyone along with you." "Get 80% of the data and information that you need to make a solid decision, and then go. The next 20% isn't really going to matter that much." "When you're tolerating behavior that isn't in alignment with the goals that you have, it is soul crushing for teams." "Sometimes your top performer, if they don't have the right cultural and values piece, is actually hurting you more than they're helping." "What do you truly have control over? I like people to just focus on what you have agency over and start there." "I actually did take a step back and spent time really getting clear on what it was that I wanted. And I don't think that most people do that." "Every relationship we have starts with trust." "I think it's to treat others the way that they wish to be treated." "Leadership isn't really about position or power or title. I really feel like it's about what you create." Explore the full archive at www.theleadershippodcast.com or wherever you get your podcasts! These are the books mentioned in this episode Resources Mentioned The Leadership Podcast | theleadershippodcast.com Sponsored by | www.darley.com Rafti Advisors. LLC | www.raftiadvisors.com Self-Reliant Leadership. LLC | selfreliantleadership.com Kim Svoboda Website | www.aspirationcatalyst.com Additional Information | www.boldleadershipbook.com/home Facebook | www.facebook.com/aspirationcatalyst LinkedIn | www.linkedin.com/in/kimsvoboda

Donnie Boivin is the CEO and founder of Success Champion Networking, five-time bestselling author, and founder of the Badass Business Summit. Donnie argues that traditional networking fails anyone selling high-value services. Too many people spend their time collecting business cards from people who will never buy from them instead of building relationships with people who can open the right doors. In this conversation, Donnie explains why the best networkers focus on helping others grow before asking for anything in return, why collaborating with competitors can create opportunities neither side could win alone, and how consistently investing time in relationships leads to bigger deals than chasing referrals ever will. If you're looking to build a stronger network, close larger opportunities, and create lasting business relationships, this conversation offers a practical roadmap for doing it differently. Find episode 521 on The Leadership Podcast, on YouTube, channel @theleadershippodcast, or wherever you get your podcasts! Watch this Episode on YouTube | Donnie Boivin on Why Traditional Networking Is Broken https://bit.ly/TLP-521 Key Moments [04:01] How Donnie fell into networking almost by accident [05:32] The Home Depot story that changed his whole approach [09:17] The biggest mindset shift networking actually requires [12:52] Why salespeople stay behind their laptops instead of networking [15:46] How Success Champion curates chapters for real fit [22:02] Leading well when everyone around you is in transition [24:52] Why influence matters as much as relationships [27:06] The case for showing up completely as yourself [29:53] What AI means for the future of relationships Memorable Quotes "I define networking as building other people's businesses." "Your clients are not networking. The people who are in the rooms you have access to can't buy your stuff." "If you can't measure it, it's very hard to find success with anything." "The more you try and be your authentic self, the more you're going to enjoy life." "It's the five people you surround yourself with, but it's also the five prospects you're going after, the five clients you currently have, the five people you're networking with." "Be a hell of a lot more mindful about the people you are surrounding yourself with." "Effective networking isn't a result of luck. It requires hard work and persistence." Explore the full archive at www.theleadershippodcast.com or wherever you get your podcasts! Resources Mentioned The Leadership Podcast | theleadershippodcast.com Sponsored by | www.darley.com Rafti Advisors. LLC | www.raftiadvisors.com Self-Reliant Leadership. LLC | selfreliantleadership.com Donnie Boivin Website | https://donnieboivin.com Donnie Boivin YouTube | www.youtube.com/@donnieboivin Donnie Boivin Twitter | @donnieboivin Donnie Boivin Facebook | www.facebook.com/donnie.boivin Donnie Boivin LinkedIn |www.linkedin.com/in/donnieboivin Donnie Boivin Instagram | www.instagram.com/donnie.boivin