Advertise on podcast: Nature vs Narcissism

In Part 3 of our three-part series, we step back and look at the bigger picture; why this case was framed the way it was, what comparisons help clarify versus distort, and how investigators ultimately honed in on Jonathan Gerlach. After Part 1 established the headlines and charges, and Part 2 examined the investigation and the tension between fact and online speculation, this final episode focuses on context, contrast, and consequence. What we cover in Part 3:A careful comparison between Jonathan Gerlach and Ed GeinWhy the comparison emergedWhere it holds weightWhere it breaks down and why that distinction mattersHow sensational comparisons can oversimplify very different crimes, motives, and historical contextsThe historical and investigative significance of Mount Moriah CemeteryWhy this cemetery became a focal point and what its condition, oversight, and history revealHow investigators narrowed their scope and connected the dots that ultimately led back to Gerlach⚠️ Content Advisory This episode includes discussion of:Grave desecrationHuman remainsHistorical violent crimeEthical and investigative failuresAll topics are discussed factually and without graphic detail, with an emphasis on accountability and respect for the dead.Part 3 isn’t about escalation, it’s about clarity.We interrogate why certain comparisons feel inevitable in true crime, how historical figures like Ed Gein become shorthand for fear, and how that shorthand can distract from the realities of a modern investigation. We also explore how place matters; how Mount Moriah Cemetery is more than a backdrop, and how its story intersects with neglect, preservation, and investigative focus.This episode asks listeners to sit with complexity instead of reaching for extremes. Until next time, stay inside, stay alive. Check out our episodes on Ed Gein (2021):  https://www.spreaker.com/episode/ed-gein-case-part-1--48052190  (Part 1) https://www.spreaker.com/episode/ed-gein-case-part-2--48058720 (Part 2) References 13WHAM. (2026). Ephrata man Jonathan Gerlach admits to selling human remains stolen from Pennsylvania cemetery. https://13wham.com/news/nation-world/ephrata-man-jonathan-gerlach-admits-to-selling-human-remains-stolen-from-pa-cemetery-search-warrant-delaware-county-philadelphia-mount-moriah-cemetery-lancaster-pennsylvania-skulls-skeletons-pa Courthouse News Service. (2026). Commonwealth of Pennsylvania v. Jonathan Gerlach: Corpse theft and desecration cemetery docket [Court document]. https://www.courthousenews.com/wp-content/uploads/2026/01/pennsylvania-v-jonathan-gerlach-corpse-theft-desecration-cemetery-docket.pdf LancasterOnline. (2026a). A look at investigation of human remains thefts linked to Ephrata suspect: Full coverage. https://lancasteronline.com/news/local/a-look-at-investigation-of-human-remains-thefts-linked-to-ephrata-suspect-full-coverage/collection_12941079-68a2-4c90-a05f-e00d075c3ae5.html LancasterOnline. (2026b). PA Attorney General’s Office investigating if Ephrata man stole bodies from Luzerne County. https://lancasteronline.com/news/local/pa-attorney-generals-office-investigating-if-ephrata-man-stole-bodies-from-luzerne-county/article_3601b4ff-7eaf-44c0-b01f-c4204b5ac266.html LancasterOnline. (2026c). Ephrata man charged in cemetery thefts linked to man going to prison in human remains case. https://lancasteronline.com/news/local/ephrata-man-charged-in-cemetery-thefts-linked-to-man-going-to-prison-in-human-remains/article_0faa53fc-d832-4dc8-ae61-a98c62d9e5ce.html New York Post. (2026, January 10). Police find “horror movie” of stolen bones in alleged grave robber’s home. https://nypost.com/2026/01/10/us-news/police-find-horror-movie-of-stolen-bones-in-alleged-graverobbers-home/ YouTube. (2026). News coverage of Jonathan Gerlach investigation [Video]. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vspfw6cO4ok

In Part 2 of our three-part series, we move beyond the headlines and into the investigation itself; and just as importantly, into the space where verified facts collide with public assumption and social-media speculation. After Part 1 laid out what Jonathan Gerlach was charged with and how the story first broke, this episode slows things down. We examine what investigators actually knew, when they knew it, and how information spread faster than confirmation. This is the episode about process, not panic. What we cover in Part 2: How the investigation unfolded behind the scenesWhat law enforcement could confirm early on and what remained unclearThe difference between documented evidence and public inferenceHow social media posts, screenshots, and secondhand claims shaped the narrativeWhy some details went viral despite lacking verificationThe ethical risks of online sleuthing when a case involves human remainsHow speculation can unintentionally obscure victims, timelines, and accountability⚠️ Content AdvisoryThis episode includes discussion of: Human remainsCemetery theftOngoing investigationsOnline speculation and misinformationDetails are discussed factually and non-graphically, with an emphasis on ethical reporting and restraint. Come back for part 3! Part 3: A comparison between Gerlach and Ed Gein; why the comparison exists, where it breaks down, and why it matters.  The historical and investigative significance of Mount Moriah Cemetery, how investigators narrowed their focus, and what the next steps are in this case in terms of identifying and contacting loved ones who were affected by this heinous crime. Until next time, stay inside, stay alive. References 13WHAM. (2026). Ephrata man Jonathan Gerlach admits to selling human remains stolen from Pennsylvania cemetery. https://13wham.com/news/nation-world/ephrata-man-jonathan-gerlach-admits-to-selling-human-remains-stolen-from-pa-cemetery-search-warrant-delaware-county-philadelphia-mount-moriah-cemetery-lancaster-pennsylvania-skulls-skeletons-pa Courthouse News Service. (2026). Commonwealth of Pennsylvania v. Jonathan Gerlach: Corpse theft and desecration cemetery docket [Court document]. https://www.courthousenews.com/wp-content/uploads/2026/01/pennsylvania-v-jonathan-gerlach-corpse-theft-desecration-cemetery-docket.pdf LancasterOnline. (2026a). A look at investigation of human remains thefts linked to Ephrata suspect: Full coverage. https://lancasteronline.com/news/local/a-look-at-investigation-of-human-remains-thefts-linked-to-ephrata-suspect-full-coverage/collection_12941079-68a2-4c90-a05f-e00d075c3ae5.html LancasterOnline. (2026b). PA Attorney General’s Office investigating if Ephrata man stole bodies from Luzerne County. https://lancasteronline.com/news/local/pa-attorney-generals-office-investigating-if-ephrata-man-stole-bodies-from-luzerne-county/article_3601b4ff-7eaf-44c0-b01f-c4204b5ac266.html LancasterOnline. (2026c). Ephrata man charged in cemetery thefts linked to man going to prison in human remains case. https://lancasteronline.com/news/local/ephrata-man-charged-in-cemetery-thefts-linked-to-man-going-to-prison-in-human-remains/article_0faa53fc-d832-4dc8-ae61-a98c62d9e5ce.html New York Post. (2026, January 10). Police find “horror movie” of stolen bones in alleged grave robber’s home. https://nypost.com/2026/01/10/us-news/police-find-horror-movie-of-stolen-bones-in-alleged-graverobbers-home/ YouTube. (2026). News coverage of Jonathan Gerlach investigation [Video]. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vspfw6cO4ok

In Part 1 of our three-part series, we begin where most people first encountered this case: the headlines.This episode breaks down what happened, what Jonathan Gerlach was charged with, and why this case immediately drew national attention. We move carefully through the facts; separating confirmed information from speculation, before briefly pulling back the curtain on what we currently know about his personal life and online presence, setting the stage for deeper analysis in the episodes to come. What we cover in Part 1: Who Jonathan Gerlach is and why his name suddenly appeared everywhereThe criminal charges filed against him and what those charges actually meanA timeline of how the story broke and why it escalated so quicklyWhat was publicly known vs. what was assumed early on⚠️ Content AdvisoryThis episode includes discussion of: Grave desecrationHuman remainsEthical and legal violations Details are discussed factually and without graphic description, with a focus on accountability and respect for the dead. Come back for parts 2 and 3! Part 2: We trace how the investigation unfolded behind the scenes (thus far); what law enforcement could confirm, what remained unknown, and how silence was quickly filled by speculation. We separate documented evidence from public assumption, unpacking how screenshots, posts, and secondhand claims took on the weight of truth. We also confront why unverified details spread so easily, the ethical danger of online sleuthing when human remains are involved, and how noise, when left unchecked, can drown out victims, distort timelines, and quietly erode accountability. Part 3: The historical and investigative significance of Mount Moriah Cemetery, how investigators narrowed their focus, and what the next steps are in this case in terms of identifying and contacting loved ones who were affected by this heinous crime. Until next time, stay inside, stay alive. References 13WHAM. (2026). Ephrata man Jonathan Gerlach admits to selling human remains stolen from Pennsylvania cemetery. https://13wham.com/news/nation-world/ephrata-man-jonathan-gerlach-admits-to-selling-human-remains-stolen-from-pa-cemetery-search-warrant-delaware-county-philadelphia-mount-moriah-cemetery-lancaster-pennsylvania-skulls-skeletons-pa Courthouse News Service. (2026). Commonwealth of Pennsylvania v. Jonathan Gerlach: Corpse theft and desecration cemetery docket [Court document]. https://www.courthousenews.com/wp-content/uploads/2026/01/pennsylvania-v-jonathan-gerlach-corpse-theft-desecration-cemetery-docket.pdf LancasterOnline. (2026a). A look at investigation of human remains thefts linked to Ephrata suspect: Full coverage. https://lancasteronline.com/news/local/a-look-at-investigation-of-human-remains-thefts-linked-to-ephrata-suspect-full-coverage/collection_12941079-68a2-4c90-a05f-e00d075c3ae5.html LancasterOnline. (2026b). PA Attorney General’s Office investigating if Ephrata man stole bodies from Luzerne County. https://lancasteronline.com/news/local/pa-attorney-generals-office-investigating-if-ephrata-man-stole-bodies-from-luzerne-county/article_3601b4ff-7eaf-44c0-b01f-c4204b5ac266.html LancasterOnline. (2026c). Ephrata man charged in cemetery thefts linked to man going to prison in human remains case. https://lancasteronline.com/news/local/ephrata-man-charged-in-cemetery-thefts-linked-to-man-going-to-prison-in-human-remains/article_0faa53fc-d832-4dc8-ae61-a98c62d9e5ce.html New York Post. (2026, January 10). Police find “horror movie” of stolen bones in alleged grave robber’s home. https://nypost.com/2026/01/10/us-news/police-find-horror-movie-of-stolen-bones-in-alleged-graverobbers-home/ YouTube. (2026). News coverage of Jonathan Gerlach investigation [Video]. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vspfw6cO4ok

On December 25th and 26th of 2025; we released a 2-parter on Luis Garavito (aka The Beast).  Heather was joined by Cole (who suggested the disturbing case) to discuss Luis Alfredo Garavito Cubillos, also known as La Bestia (The Beast), was a Colombian serial killer, pedophile, sex offender, and necrophile. Between 1992 and 1999, he sexually assaulted over 200 victims and is believed to have sexually assaulted and murdered at least 193 children, primarily young boys, across western Colombia. But as Heather and Cole were recording, they realized that there were a lot of unanswered questions about Columbia and the ‘hows’ and ‘whys’ related to him going undetected for so long.  Well; lucky for you, we have a resident researcher who also has a degree in international studies!   Courtney came to the studio and dropped some knowledge in this 2-parter about Colombia, before, during, and after his disgusting crime spree. Books and Documentaries mentioned:Conquistadores: A New History of Spanish Discovery and Conquest by Fernando CervantesWhen the Mountains Tremble (roughly 1 hr and 23 min).  Filmed in 1982, this film is a prequel to the documentary Granito: How to Nail a DictatorStill Life with Bones: Genocide, Forensics, and What Remains By Alexa HagertyA Flower Traveled in My Blood by Haley Cohen Gilliland Books to learn about Colombia:The Shape of the Ruins (La Forma de las Ruinas) by Juan Gabriel Vásquez (is a great historical novel about 20th century Colombian politics)One Hundred Years Solitude by Gabriel García MárqueEvery Day The River Changes; Four Weeks Down the Magdalena by Jordan SalamaMagical Realism for Non-Believers; A Memoir of Finding Family by Anika FajardoThe Book of Emma Reyes: A Memoir by Emma Reyes (Author) & Daniel AlarcónThe Night Will Be Long by Santiago GamboThe Making of Modern Colombia: A Nation in Spite of Itself by David Bushnell There Are No Dead Here: A Story of Murder and Denial in Colombia by Maria McFarland Sánchez-MorenoEven Silence Has an End: My Six Years of Captivity in the Colombian Jungle by Ingrid BetancourtBetween Legitimacy and Violence: A History of Colombia, 1875–2002 (Latin America in Translation by Marco Palacios and 1 more)Colombia: A Concise Contemporary History by Michael J. LaRosa and 1 more Until next time; stay inside, stay alive. 

On December 25th and 26th of 2025; we released a 2-parter on Luis Garavito (aka The Beast).  Heather was joined by Cole (who suggested the disturbing case) to discuss Luis Alfredo Garavito Cubillos, also known as La Bestia (The Beast), was a Colombian serial killer, pedophile, sex offender, and necrophile. Between 1992 and 1999, he sexually assaulted over 200 victims and is believed to have sexually assaulted and murdered at least 193 children, primarily young boys, across western Colombia. But as Heather and Cole were recording, they realized that there were a lot of unanswered questions about Columbia and the ‘hows’ and ‘whys’ related to him going undetected for so long.  Well; lucky for you, we have a resident researcher who also has a degree in international studies!   Courtney came to the studio and dropped some knowledge in this 2-parter about Colombia, before, during, and after his disgusting crime spree. Books and Documentaries mentioned:Conquistadores: A New History of Spanish Discovery and Conquest by Fernando CervantesWhen the Mountains Tremble (roughly 1 hr and 23 min).  Filmed in 1982, this film is a prequel to the documentary Granito: How to Nail a DictatorStill Life with Bones: Genocide, Forensics, and What Remains By Alexa HagertyA Flower Traveled in My Blood by Haley Cohen Gilliland Books to learn about Colombia:The Shape of the Ruins (La Forma de las Ruinas) by Juan Gabriel Vásquez (is a great historical novel about 20th century Colombian politics)One Hundred Years Solitude by Gabriel García MárqueEvery Day The River Changes; Four Weeks Down the Magdalena by Jordan SalamaMagical Realism for Non-Believers; A Memoir of Finding Family by Anika FajardoThe Book of Emma Reyes: A Memoir by Emma Reyes (Author) & Daniel AlarcónThe Night Will Be Long by Santiago GamboThe Making of Modern Colombia: A Nation in Spite of Itself by David Bushnell There Are No Dead Here: A Story of Murder and Denial in Colombia by Maria McFarland Sánchez-MorenoEven Silence Has an End: My Six Years of Captivity in the Colombian Jungle by Ingrid BetancourtBetween Legitimacy and Violence: A History of Colombia, 1875–2002 (Latin America in Translation by Marco Palacios and 1 more)Colombia: A Concise Contemporary History by Michael J. LaRosa and 1 more Until next time; stay inside, stay alive. 

⚠️ CONTENT WARNING If Part 1 was about how the warning signs were ignored, Part 2 is where the consequences become horrifyingly clear. This episode picks up where the slow burn ends; and where the true scale of the nightmare is revealed.Luis Alfredo Garavito Cubillos, infamously known as La Bestia (The Beast), went on to become one of the most prolific serial killers in recorded history. Between 1992 and 1999, he sexually assaulted more than 200 victims and is believed to have sexually assaulted and murdered at least 193 children, mostly young boys, across western Colombia.  And somehow… he kept going. !!!!This episode contains discussions of child sexual abuse, torture, murder, survivor testimony, and institutional failure. We avoid gratuitous detail, but the material is deeply disturbing. Please listen with care!!!! This is where everything collapses; for the victims, for investigators, and eventually, for Garavito himself.In Part 2, we break down:The murders and how Garavito operated for years without detectionThe voices and experiences of surviving victimsHow small mistakes — and chance encounters — finally led to his arrestThe shocking details of his confessionsHis sentencing, plea deals, and the massive controversy surrounding themHis death, and why justice still feels unfinishedSpoiler alert: the legal outcome will probably make your blood boil.Check out our website for sources and more at  www.naturevsnarcissism.com.  Until next time; stay inside, stay alive.  

⚠️ CONTENT WARNING!!!!This episode discusses child sexual abuse, violence, and psychological instability. We avoid graphic detail, but the subject matter is inherently disturbing. Please listen with care!!!! In this episode, we’re opening the door to one of the most disturbing cases in true-crime history - and we’re starting at the beginning, where the warning signs were loud, constant, and tragically ignored.Luis Alfredo Garavito Cubillos, also known as La Bestia (The Beast), was a Colombian serial killer, pedophile, sex offender, and necrophile. Between 1992 and 1999, he sexually assaulted over 200 victims and is believed to have sexually assaulted and murdered at least 193 children, primarily young boys, across western Colombia. Yes; those numbers are real. And yes; it gets worse before it gets better. Before the murders, before the headlines, before Colombia realized what was happening; there was a long, ugly buildup. In Part 1, we cover: Garavito’s abusive and chaotic childhoodHis teen years, marked by escalating sexual violence and early arrestsThe early crimes and red flags that never stopped himPortions of his adult life, revealing substance abuse, untreated mental illness, religion, instability, and repeated system failuresThis episode isn’t about shock value;  it’s about how someone like La Bestia is formed.Check out our website for sources and more at  www.naturevsnarcissism.com.  Until next time; stay inside, stay alive.  And be sure to come back for Part 2!

Karen Margaret Greenlee; born in 1958, was an apprentice embalmer in Sacramento, California who sexually assaulted over 40 deceased individuals.  She called herself the “morgue rat”.  She is considered as the "best-known modern practitioner of necrophilia", and her case was the subject of much research due to her sex as only ten percent of known necrophiles are women.  The first 4 ½ minutes is an announcement about this series and how it came about.  We start talking about Greenlee at the 5 minute mark.  Feel free to skip forward, but if you do, you may be lost for this particular series. Fun Fact:  Did you know that necrophilia did not become illegal until 2003 in the United Kingdom??  Did you know that in the United States though, there is no federal legislation specifically barring sex with a corpse.  However, multiple states have their own laws.  In Ohio, it is a Felony in the fifth degree. It appears as though the states that do not have legislation against it are: Massachusetts, New Mexico, South Dakota, Vermont, and Virginia.  #TheMoreYouKnow. Check out our website for sources and more at www.naturevsnarcissism.com Until next time; stay inside, stay alive.

FINALE As part of our 13 Days of Halloween - we added a series called Tricks N’ Treats!  This series includes a video on Patreon where Heather and her guests blindly try weird/odd/different snacks and drinks.  Each episode will include at least 3 snacks and at least 3 drinks that are rated on a scale of 1 (worst) to 6 (best).  Each number in the scale is a particular Halloween candy.  The Scale:6 - Reese’s Pumpkins5 - M&M’s4 - Caramel Apple Lollipops3 - Skittles2 - Smarties1 - Mary Jane Peanut Butter KissesToday’s episode started out with Caleb & Ollie…then moved to Jason & Mack, and closed out with Heather & Jason.  This episode was a BLAST.  And there were VERY weird items eaten… Yes, you guys finally get to see Jason.  He is real.  He is not a cryptid LOL. HAPPY HALLOWEEN!!!! PLEASE send us all the photos of your costumes!!!!

Day 31 of the Crimetober Series is about the Liske family murders, which occurred on October 31, 2010. Sources https://www.brainjet.com/random/1566961/crimes-committed-on-halloween/  http://www.sanduskyregister.com/story/201011220001 https://www.wvnstv.com/digital-desk/infamous-halloween-murders/amp/  https://www.businessinsider.com/murders-halloween-night-2018-10  https://alabamabioclean.com/frightening-crimes-that-happen-on-halloween/  https://popculturecrime.medium.com/today-in-true-crime-history-october-31-f75c4e3537e0 

Day 30 of the Crimetober Series is about the murder of Martha Moxley, which occurred on October 30, 1975. Sources https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Martha_Moxley  https://www.cbsnews.com/news/who-killed-martha-moxley/  https://www.oxygen.com/murder-and-justice-the-case-of-martha-moxley  https://marthamoxley.com/  https://www.nytimes.com/topic/person/martha-moxley "Moxley Case: Who is Michael Skakel?". cnn.com. December 31, 2007. Archived from the original on August 10, 2014. 

PUPPAWEEN!!! As part of our 13 Days of Halloween - we like to throw in some extra TREATS and give you fun episodes that are not all about eating things.  For this episode, Heather & Becca brought in the DOGGOS!!!!!  We wanted Gizmo, Luna Bear, and Rocket to try on Halloween costumes, eat some treats, and wear their cute little bandanas!  ENJOY THE CHAOS OF CUTENESS!!!

Day 29 of the Crimetober Series is about the murder of Tina Marie Harmon, which occurred on October 29, 1981. Sources https://popculturecrime.medium.com/today-in-true-crime-history-october-29-8563274bcf05  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Tina_Harmon  https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/7366324/tina_marie-harmon  Renner, James (December 30, 2008). "Ghosts Of Wayne County Doubts Haunt An Old Murder And The Execution That Followed". Cleveland Scene.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Krista_Harrison  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Anthony_Buell 

Day 28 of the Crimetober Series is about the disappearance of Gloria Ann Gonzales, which occurred on October 28, 1971, and the other Texas Killing Fields’ victims.   I apologize for the late release  Sources https://popculturecrime.medium.com/today-in-true-crime-history-october-28-da18ea0757e7  https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/33354927/gloria_ann-gonzales  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_Killing_Fields  https://www.fbi.gov/news/stories/seeking-information-in-unsolved-killing-fields-murders-091819  https://www.newsweek.com/texas-killing-fields-victims-families-parents-netflix-1765359  https://www.houstonpublicmedia.org/articles/news/2017/10/18/243184/investigators-think-they-know-who-killed-eleven-girls-around-galveston-in-the-1970s-2/  The Generation Why Podcast coverage:  https://podcasts.apple.com/ro/podcast/texas-killing-fields/id541481026?i=1000367853410

Day 27 of the Crimetober Series is about the mass shooting at Fort Bragg, which occurred on October 27, 1995. I apologize for the late release  Sources https://www.nytimes.com/1996/06/13/us/paratrooper-sentenced-to-death-for-sniper-attack-at-fort-bragg.html  https://www.army.mil/article-amp/18701/judge_sets_sentence_for_bragg_shooting_spree  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Kreutzer_Jr.https://www.armfor.uscourts.gov/newcaaf/opinions/2011SepTerm/11-0231.pdf https://www.nbcnews.com/id/wbna29644671 https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/local/1996/05/31/family-says-army-knew-of-sons-troubles/b09fe454-0848-4abb-81b6-f2679e87e8ac/ https://law.justia.com/cases/federal/appellate-courts/caaf/04-5006-AR/04-5006-AR-2005-08-16.html https://abc11.com/archive/6704183/ https://www.fayobserver.com/story/news/military/2015/10/26/20-years-ago-chaos-at/22272995007/