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An exchange of insults on X was all that director Alex Gibney got directly from the main character of his new documentary, “Musk.” But by interviewing his business partners, father, wives and girlfriends—and using a bit of movie magic—Gibney takes viewers inside Elon Musk’s head. Spoiler alert: it’s not pretty. Guest: Alex Gibney, filmmaker and director of the documentary “Musk.” Want more What Next TBD? Subscribe to Slate Plus to access ad-free listening to the whole What Next family and across all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe today on Apple Podcasts by clicking “Try Free” at the top of our show page. Sign up now at slate.com/whatnextplus to get access wherever you listen. Podcast production by Evan Campbell, Madeline Thames-Ducharme and Patrick Fort. Paige Osburn is the senior supervising producer of What Next and What Next TBD. Need to set up your Slate Plus feed? If you subscribed through Slate.com, check out our FAQ at slate.com/podcastfaqs for easy instructions. Members subscribed via Apple Podcasts get automatic access—no setup required. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

A.I. large language models are prompt, attentive, positive and frictionless—in short, much easier to deal with than humans with their own needs, wants, and moods. But, as long as humans aren’t social creatures by nature, this should be fine, right? Guest: Sherry Turkle, licensed clinical psychologist and the founding director of MIT's Initiative on Technology and Self. Want more What Next TBD? Subscribe to Slate Plus to access ad-free listening to the whole What Next family and across all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe today on Apple Podcasts by clicking “Try Free” at the top of our show page. Sign up now at slate.com/whatnextplus to get access wherever you listen. Podcast production by Evan Campbell, Madeline Thames-Ducharme, Patrick Fort and Micah Phillips. Paige Osburn is the senior supervising producer of What Next and What Next TBD. Need to set up your Slate Plus feed? If you subscribed through Slate.com, check out our FAQ at slate.com/podcastfaqs for easy instructions. Members subscribed via Apple Podcasts get automatic access—no setup required. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Artificial intelligence is pitched as a potential economic powerhouse—and also a potential bringer of the apocalypse. Can two economic and military rivals cooperate enough to fulfill the former (and former only)? Guest: Scott Singer, fellow and co-director of the China AI Initiative at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace. Want more What Next TBD? Subscribe to Slate Plus to access ad-free listening to the whole What Next family and across all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe today on Apple Podcasts by clicking “Try Free” at the top of our show page. Sign up now at slate.com/whatnextplus to get access wherever you listen. Podcast production by Evan Campbell, Madeline Thames-Ducharme and Patrick Fort. Paige Osburn is the senior supervising producer of What Next and What Next TBD. Need to set up your Slate Plus feed? If you subscribed through Slate.com, check out our FAQ at slate.com/podcastfaqs for easy instructions. Members subscribed via Apple Podcasts get automatic access—no setup required. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Why did the “Hugging Face Incident” scare A.I. researchers so much? And if they are so confident artificial intelligence needs to be slowed down, why aren’t they slowing it down? Guest: Nate Soares, President of the Machine Intelligence Research Institute, co-author of “If Anyone Builds It, Everyone Dies” Want more What Next TBD? Subscribe to Slate Plus to access ad-free listening to the whole What Next family and across all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe today on Apple Podcasts by clicking “Try Free” at the top of our show page. Sign up now at slate.com/whatnextplus to get access wherever you listen. Podcast production by Evan Campbell, Madeline Thames-Ducharme and Patrick Fort. Paige Osburn is the senior supervising producer of What Next and What Next TBD. Need to set up your Slate Plus feed? If you subscribed through Slate.com, check out our FAQ at slate.com/podcastfaqs for easy instructions. Members subscribed via Apple Podcasts get automatic access—no setup required. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

After OpenAI agents hacked a rival company this summer, the word from Silicon Valley was “That’s it! They’re almost ready to kill us all!” But…are they? Really? Guest: Paul Ford, co-founder of the AI start-up Aboard, technology writer.   Want more What Next TBD? Subscribe to Slate Plus to access ad-free listening to the whole What Next family and across all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe today on Apple Podcasts by clicking “Try Free” at the top of our show page. Sign up now at slate.com/whatnextplus to get access wherever you listen. Podcast production by Evan Campbell, Madeline Thames-Ducharme and Patrick Fort. Paige Osburn is the senior supervising producer of What Next and What Next TBD. Need to set up your Slate Plus feed? If you subscribed through Slate.com, check out our FAQ at slate.com/podcastfaqs for easy instructions. Members subscribed via Apple Podcasts get automatic access—no setup required. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Does Meta’s $17 billion (give or take) settlement address people’s concerns about social media and its impact on teenagers… or is it already too late? Guest: Paresh Dave, senior writer for WIRED. Want more What Next TBD? Subscribe to Slate Plus to access ad-free listening to the whole What Next family and across all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe today on Apple Podcasts by clicking “Try Free” at the top of our show page. Sign up now at slate.com/whatnextplus to get access wherever you listen. Podcast production by Evan Campbell, Madeline Thames-Ducharme and Patrick Fort. Paige Osburn is the senior supervising producer of What Next and What Next TBD. Need to set up your Slate Plus feed? If you subscribed through Slate.com, check out our FAQ at slate.com/podcastfaqs for easy instructions. Members subscribed via Apple Podcasts get automatic access—no setup required. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Through stealing your job or simply tanking the stock market—whichever comes first—the rise of artificial intelligence (companies) is a very futuristic sounding problem. It may have some very old-fashioned sounding solutions however. Guest: Cory Doctorow, sci-fi author, journalist, blogger and author of “The Reverse Centaur’s Guide to Life After AI.” This episode originally aired June 26. TBD will be back to regularly scheduled programming next week. Want more What Next? Subscribe to Slate Plus to access ad-free listening to the whole What Next family and across all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe today on Apple Podcasts by clicking “Try Free” at the top of our show page. Sign up now at slate.com/whatnextplus to get access wherever you listen. Podcast production by Rob Gunther, Evan Campbell, Madeline Thames-Ducharme and Patrick Fort. Paige Osburn is the senior supervising producer of What Next and What Next TBD. Need to set up your Slate Plus feed? If you subscribed through Slate.com, check out our FAQ at slate.com/podcastfaqs for easy instructions. Members subscribed via Apple Podcasts get automatic access—no setup required. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hundreds of millions of dollars, desperation for insider info, fury and accusations of conspiracy when it doesn’t go your way—is this gambling or elections? Through the magic of prediction markets, it’s both!  Guest: David Gilbert, reporter at WIRED covering disinformation, online extremism, and how these trends impact people’s lives across the globe. Want more What Next TBD? Subscribe to Slate Plus to access ad-free listening to the whole What Next family and across all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe today on Apple Podcasts by clicking “Try Free” at the top of our show page. Sign up now at slate.com/whatnextplus to get access wherever you listen. Podcast production by Rob Gunther, Evan Campbell, Madeline Thames-Ducharme and Patrick Fort. Paige Osburn is the senior supervising producer of What Next and What Next TBD. Need to set up your Slate Plus feed? If you subscribed through Slate.com, check out our FAQ at slate.com/podcastfaqs for easy instructions. Members subscribed via Apple Podcasts get automatic access—no setup required. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

In a world where everyone is carrying smartphones and setting up Ring cameras, you could be forgiven for thinking the war is over and the surveillance state won. But Flock cameras being denounced in town halls and smashed on the street have become a place for people to channel their heretofore unseen rage.  Guest: Joseph Cox, reporter for 404 Media Want more What Next TBD? Subscribe to Slate Plus to access ad-free listening to the whole What Next family and across all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe today on Apple Podcasts by clicking “Try Free” at the top of our show page. Sign up now at slate.com/whatnextplus to get access wherever you listen. Podcast production by Rob Gunther, Evan Campbell, Madeline Thames-Ducharme and Patrick Fort. Paige Osburn is the senior supervising producer of What Next and What Next TBD. Need to set up your Slate Plus feed? If you subscribed through Slate.com, check out our FAQ at slate.com/podcastfaqs for easy instructions. Members subscribed via Apple Podcasts get automatic access—no setup required. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Investments in—and among—artificial intelligence companies have pushed the S&P 500 to record highs. It’s also introduced a volatility to the markets that may be unprecedented. Is this growing pains or the wobble before the fall?  Guest: Ed Elson, co-host of the Prof G Markets and First Time Founders podcasts. Want more What Next TBD? Subscribe to Slate Plus to access ad-free listening to the whole What Next family and across all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe today on Apple Podcasts by clicking “Try Free” at the top of our show page. Sign up now at slate.com/whatnextplus to get access wherever you listen. Podcast production by Rob Gunther, Evan Campbell, Madeline Thames-Ducharme and Patrick Fort. Paige Osburn is the senior supervising producer of What Next and What Next TBD. Need to set up your Slate Plus feed? If you subscribed through Slate.com, check out our FAQ at slate.com/podcastfaqs for easy instructions. Members subscribed via Apple Podcasts get automatic access—no setup required. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

The Bureau of Labor Statistics is a department for wonks, by wonks. But under the dual pressures of the changing nature of work—like the growing gig economy—and an administration that doesn’t accept bad news, should next week’s jobs report be taken with a grain of salt?  Guest: Ben Casselman, chief economics correspondent for The New York Times. Want more What Next? Subscribe to Slate Plus to access ad-free listening to the whole What Next family and across all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe today on Apple Podcasts by clicking “Try Free” at the top of our show page. Sign up now at slate.com/whatnextplus to get access wherever you listen. Podcast production by Rob Gunther, Evan Campbell, Madeline Thames-Ducharme and Patrick Fort. Paige Osburn is the senior supervising producer of What Next and What Next TBD. Need to set up your Slate Plus feed? If you subscribed through Slate.com, check out our FAQ at slate.com/podcastfaqs for easy instructions. Members subscribed via Apple Podcasts get automatic access—no setup required. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Why are kids getting faster? Is it the shoes? Also, running the Boston Marathon is obviously a huge accomplishment, but if you ran the 2013 Boston Marathon, you should lead with that and not save it for an interview years after you meet someone. Guest: Rob Gunther, producer for Slate’s What Next. This episode is member-exclusive. Listen to it now by subscribing to Slate Plus. By joining, not only will you unlock exclusive episodes of What Next —you’ll also access ad-free listening across all your favorite Slate podcasts. You can subscribe directly from the What Next show page on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. Or, visit slate.com/whatnextplus to get access wherever you listen. Podcast production by Rob Gunther, Evan Campbell, Madeline Thames-Ducharme and Patrick Fort. Paige Osburn is the senior supervising producer of What Next and What Next TBD. Need to set up your Slate Plus feed? If you subscribed through Slate.com, check out our FAQ at slate.com/podcastfaqs for easy instructions. Members subscribed via Apple Podcasts get automatic access—no setup required. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Steve Witkoff is a real estate investor, an attorney, and now America’s Special Envoy to the Middle East. It may seem like a weird career shift for Witkoff, but he’s such an outlier that the famously transactional Donald Trump treats him like an actual friend. Guest: Andrea Bernstein, investigative reporter and the co-host of four podcasts, including Trump Inc. Want more What Next TBD? Subscribe to Slate Plus to access ad-free listening to the whole What Next family and across all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe today on Apple Podcasts by clicking “Try Free” at the top of our show page. Sign up now at slate.com/whatnextplus to get access wherever you listen. Podcast production by Rob Gunther, Evan Campbell, Madeline Thames-Ducharme and Patrick Fort. Paige Osburn is the senior supervising producer of What Next and What Next TBD. Need to set up your Slate Plus feed? If you subscribed through Slate.com, check out our FAQ at slate.com/podcastfaqs for easy instructions. Members subscribed via Apple Podcasts get automatic access—no setup required. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Ah, New York—where it’s hot, loud, and the air is barely breathable. So it’s not especially surprising that Governor Kathy Hochul is opting out of adding to all of that and announcing a moratorium on building new data centers in the state.  Guest: Nitish Pahwa, Slate staff writer This episode is member-exclusive. Listen to it now by subscribing to Slate Plus. By joining, not only will you unlock exclusive episodes of What Next —you’ll also access ad-free listening across all your favorite Slate podcasts. You can subscribe directly from the What Next show page on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. Or, visit slate.com/whatnextplus to get access wherever you listen. Podcast production by Rob Gunther, Evan Campbell, Madeline Thames-Ducharme and Patrick Fort. Paige Osburn is the senior supervising producer of What Next and What Next TBD. Need to set up your Slate Plus feed? If you subscribed through Slate.com, check out our FAQ at slate.com/podcastfaqs for easy instructions. Members subscribed via Apple Podcasts get automatic access—no setup required. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Is Microsoft laying off 3,200 employees from the Xbox division just a new boss coming in and pruning an overgrown asset, or is it a sign that console gaming is coming to the end?   Guest: Jason Schreier, reporter at Bloomberg News, cohost of Triple Click, author of Play Nice, Press Reset, and Blood Sweat and Pixels.  Want more What Next? Subscribe to Slate Plus to access ad-free listening to the whole What Next family and across all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe today on Apple Podcasts by clicking “Try Free” at the top of our show page. Sign up now at slate.com/whatnextplus to get access wherever you listen. Podcast production by Rob Gunther, Evan Campbell, Madeline Thames-Ducharme and Patrick Fort. Paige Osburn is the senior supervising producer of What Next and What Next TBD. Need to set up your Slate Plus feed? If you subscribed through Slate.com, check out our FAQ at slate.com/podcastfaqs for easy instructions. Members subscribed via Apple Podcasts get automatic access—no setup required. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.