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A mutual friend introduced Cara and me. He knew we both were doing our best to live by our values in avoiding hurting others through pollution and depletion. On the face of it, our living situations look different. Her family converted a bus into a home. I disconnected my apartment from the electric grid. We share plenty more in the conversation. Our motivations are similar, which it didn't take us long to bond over. We also face similar misunderstanding and friction from society, especially people who purport to share our values of not hurting people (or wildlife) without consent. Also, people confuse themselves into thinking that because we do what we do, we don't do anything else. More importantly, we also discovered similar joys, rewards, and ways to keep acting. In this conversation, we talk about the joys and challenges of living by our values in a culture that claims to share those values but often rewards behavior that violates them. I don't get to talk to many people with similar situations so it was very refreshing. Feeling understood feels great. I hope you pick up on it. I hope you'll join us too. Cara's homepageHer intersectional nonprofit: Radical Art in ActionHer family's eco-art converted school bus home, using 100% reclaimed materials: The Love Bus: Beauty & Waste In the Face of Climate Crisis (youtube.com), creative, affordable housingS.O.U.L. (Shared Opportunity Used Local) Commons that supports mutual aid economies and gift economies through the local free store she and her partner created for their communityHer book, mentioned in our conversation: Zazu Dreams: Between the Scarab and the Dung Beetle, A Cautionary Fable for the Anthropocene Era: Her cross-cultural, climate justice-through-alternative economies (includes a traveling exhibition and animated film adaptation) Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

The predominant responses to the idea of polluting and depleting less include fears of reverting to the Stone Age, losing civilization, being invaded by aggressive opponents, dying at 30, dying from small cuts, and reverting to a past viewed as worse than today. My upcoming book describes why we feel those fears and why what we fear losing is exactly what we can expect to get more of. A key part of that pattern is that all those fears are false, based on misunderstanding humanity's past. Christopher Ryan's latest book, Civilized to Death, is the clearest, most comprehensive single work describing the past accurately. I spent years researching, learning from countless sources. The results were conclusive, but difficult to communicate. What could I say, "Read these dozens of academic papers and books and watch all these documentaries"? Chris researched more and compiled it more clearly, concisely, and readably than I could have dreamed to. Now I can say, "Read Civilized to Death." I mean it: Read Civilized to Death. Our conversation covers the highlights. It will help you see why you believe legitimizing myths fear changes that when you do them you will only wish you had done them earlier. Things about yourself, humanity, culture, and life will make sense that never did before. Chris's home pageHis books, including Civilized to Death Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

How do you make sense of an entire society or nation violating its values? Consider Germany in the 1930s, in which a whole nation seemed to embrace Nazism. It's tempting to say they're all monsters, but how could over 50 million people change in a few years? Not genetics. They must have been no more or less human in 1940 as 1920. It's tempting to say that monsters took over and changed them. Many people thought so. At the end of World War II, a psychiatrist, Douglas Kelley, was sent to evaluate the highest level Nazis who had been captured and were to be tried in the Nuremberg trials. He believed that these leaders must have differed from most people. He wanted to find that difference in order to help prevent people with whatever traits he found from repeating what they did. He was deeply troubled to find no meaningful difference between them and normal results on his tests. Jack El-Hai told Kelley's story in his book The Nazi and the Psychiatrist, including interacting directly with Herman Göring, at one point the second highest ranking Nazi. In our conversation, Jack tells the highlights of his book. I discuss the relevance to polluting and depleting today, where everyone is contributing, violating our own values, but contributing to much more suffering and death than even the Holocaust. We also talk about the movie Nuremberg based on the book, including its stars, Russell Crowe and Rami Malek. Jack's home pageHis book page Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

As a great-grandmother, Beth probably wouldn't describe herself as an influencer, but what else do you call it when videos of her go viral and prompt people to follow her? Longtime podcast listeners may remember episode 754: (Aunt) Trish Ellis and (Niece) Evelyn Wallace, part 1: Not Even Cancer Holds Her Back. We mentioned Beth, Evelyn’s mom and Trish’s sister. All three of them took the workshop. Beth and Evelyn also took my leadership and initiative courses that I offered to workshop alumni. Beth's initiative project was to pick up litter daily, but not just pick it up. She was inspired by an initiative she'd seen to restore pride in a community. For example, I pick up litter, but I just do it to clean where I walk. Her goal was bigger: to restore and inspire pride in where she lives, Mérida, Mexico. She planned things like a sign to invite favorable attention, what to wear, when to go out, how to talk to people. She's been picking up litter since. Then last month, at an alumni online lunch, she shared that someone secretly recorded her, posted the video, and by then the video had been seen over 1 million times. Plus, attention was leading to people joining her movement, opportunity to work with government, and more. I posted about it on my blog: Secret video of Beth picking up litter goes viral in Mexico. I invited her to share here. Listen for what happens when you persist. Beth's community page: Yo ❤ Mérida limpia. ¿Y tú?My post on her, linking to her videos and some media coverage: Secret video of Beth picking up litter goes viral in Mexico Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

I met Stan in person at an event in Brooklyn. I had read Ministry for the Future a few years ago. He pointed out something I hadn't noticed since most people identify him as a science fiction writer. Ministry for the Future isn't exactly science fiction. He projects into the future, but he only includes plausible things---no flying cars or time travel. This practice invigorated my interest in his work. I also asked him how he handled water in New York 2140, since I knew it would have to be heavily polluted from sea level rise would flood landfills and cause their contents to disperse throughout the oceans. I enjoyed talking to him and invited him here. He has another identify besides as an author. He knows a lot about our environmental situation and attempts to address it. He's not an activist but more than an educator. I couldn't wait to engage with him on both identities. For him as an author, I found more to learn from him than I expected relevant to leadership, which I consider a performance art. As a writer, he has to create visions that readers accept and embrace. He has to express himself candidly but in a language the reader likes and feels engaged to continue. These points are relevant to leadership I asked him a bunch about the art and craft of writing from the perspective of someone wanting to improve his leadership. Naturally, we also talked about creativity regarding solutions. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Most environmentalists that I know of consider themselves progressive or liberal. They propose solutions that increase regulation and grow government, often in the style of the New Deal. Their role models are generally also progressive and liberal. They present conservatives as opponents, even enemies, sometimes evil. They consider them interested in themselves and profit, not caring who suffers for it. Over and over, they say about conservatives, "They don't care." Meanwhile, they pollute as much as anyone. They fund future extraction, companies that extract and pollute, their politicians, and lobbyists promoting more. I don't think they actually talk to conservatives. They project their preconceptions onto them and treat them as straw men. David Jenkins helps lead a conservative group that promotes stewardship. I suspect many environmentalists would consider the combination impossible, wondering if it's a front group. What do you expect? Could conservative values promote decreasing pollution, depletion, plunder, and misappropriating nature? Listen and find out. Conservatives for Responsible Stewardship's web page Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

That this country has a region called Cancer Alley is beyond tragic. We know we're causing it, not just the companies operating the polluting refineries and other industrial plants. All of us who buy their products are funding them. I wondered if it was fair to call the region Cancer Alley. Is the evidence clear enough, even if not for a court to award damages? Peter DeCarlo is a researcher at Johns Hopkins who did original research and answered definitively: Yes. In our conversation, he described what motivated him to this research, the research, interacting with residents of Cancer Alley, how it affects him, physically and emotionally, and why he keeps going. It turns out his motivation started long before the research. The conversation returns at the end to some parts of his life at the beginning. I hope it motivates some to act out of the potential for life fulfillment. Peter's faculty page at Johns HopkinsThe video of Peter produced by podcast guest Maya Lilly: Justice for Saint James Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

John returns to describe his upcoming book The Art of the Steal: Trump and the Economic Hit Man Presidency, described as his best book of the Economic Hit Man series. I'm honored that he came to this podcast first. Longtime listeners and readers know how much of an impression Confessions of an Economic Hit Man made on me. Regular blog readers know from my descriptions of my upcoming book how much imperialism factors into it. John's book couldn't have come at a better time. Listen to this whole conversation. He starts by describing the new book, then puts it in context of how what he wrote about decades ago is happening more than ever, and by the US government on its own citizens. I think you'll feel as I do that I'd rather it weren't happening but since it is, I'd rather know than not know. I say to listen to the whole episode, especially if you're listening around the date I publish (July 3, 2026) because none of what he says or writes is complaining. He shares how everything he says and writes is to restore American ideals like liberty, freedom, equality, democracy, and national security. He states it better than I can. John's home pageHis page on his new book The Art of the Steal: Trump and the Economic Hit Man PresidencyHis blog Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

I'd seen the "1% for the Planet" logo many times and figured it was an organization that helped, but I didn't think of how. The businessman in me wondered, shouldn't companies just lower prices 1% and let people donate what they want? Does one percent make much difference? Kate was passing through New York so we got to meet in person. In this recording, she answers these questions and more. She describes the organization more comprehensively, but briefly, 1% for the Planet organizes other organizations, some to donate, others to receive, and vets them. What interested me most was their long-term goal, which is cultural change, which fits with mine. Kate didn't found the organization, but as CEO has scaled the network to 110 countries and 65 industries, driving close to $1 billion in certified giving. She also shares her personal background that motivates her, which also interested me, since from the start of the conversation, her leadership experience and style emerge. Anyone who knows me knows I consider effective leadership one of the most important needs in reducing pollution and depletion. Kate's home page1% for the Planet Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

It turns out Steven's readers split into two camps with little overlap. I figure most listeners belong to the War of Art camp. If you haven't read the book and want to live a better life, I recommend it, in the top few percent of recommendations. It's powerful, engaging, memorable, and short. The other camp reads his fiction books. His latest is The Arcadian, which stands alone but connects with his last book A Man at Arms. I read both and now belong to both camps, proudly. One goal of this conversation is to entice listeners to join both Pressfield camps too. This podcast is about leadership applied to sustainability, not just personal leadership and art. Just because I like his books doesn't mean his fiction is relevant to this podcast. I found one part delivered a powerful gut punch that I found relevant to our lives. Blog readers will have seen my post about that part after reading The Arcadian Wounded Warriors, by Steven Pressfield, and Ourselves. That part describes what happens to people when we are induced to violate our values. Steven and I talked about that section. He described it as the core of the book. The situation warriors face and must deal with is more concentrated than we do, but their ways of handling it are similar to how we do, despite our violations being more diffuse. We would help ourselves handle our lives by facing that we are violating our values, even if, like the warriors, society rewards us for it. Only by facing it can we resolve it. In our case, we can change our culture to stop corrupting us. We can learn a lot from Steven. Not many people sell millions of books. Many followers is a top sign of leadership. Steven's home pageHis booksHis weekly blogMy recent blog post about The Arcadian, about the section of the book we talked about it: Wounded Warriors, by Steven Pressfield, and Ourselves Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This podcast is about leadership first and foremost, applied to sustainability. Most of the time when people hear or read "sustainability," that concept overrides everything else. They forget or don't notice else, but here, in this podcast it comes second. If you haven't developed the social and emotional skills to lead based on intrinsic motivation, if you try to convince, cajole, coerce, or seek compliance, you'll probably influence people to resist and oppose you and what you're promoting. I see Eric's book, How to Know Your Self (note the two words: "your" and "self") is a book on self awareness based on an interactive course on self awareness. I've never heard an experience leader suggest that lower self awareness helps and I've heard plenty say it does. Since we all pollute and deplete, which hurts people, we know we're violating our values, which tends to evoke emotions we don't like. We hide them from ourselves. We lower our self awareness. We could use tools to increase our self awareness. Eric's book delivers. We talk about how the book came to be, his course, how it differs from regular classes, and what people get out of it. I hope you listen, read the book, use it to increase your self awareness, and use that increase to lead yourself and others more effectively. Eric's home pageEric's page for How to Know Your SelfEric's faculty page at the University of ChicagoEric's podcast: Knowing Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Two core elements of leadership are effective communication and creating community. AJ has done both. I can attest from taking her writing workshop and participating in her author community since. I wrote the first draft of Sustainability Simplified in her workshop. I also valued the book she co-wrote with her writing partner and podcast guest Mike Michalowicz. As you'll hear in our conversation, their podcast is one of the only ones I've listened to every episode of. I've wanted to bring her on the podcast for a long time since I learned so much from her and value participating in her community so much. If you're here to build community to change culture, I believe you can learn from AJ's journey and building her community. I see them based on honesty, integrity, doing the reps, self-awareness, and the things that many people talk about but not all do. If I'm not too direct and blunt to say so, environmentalists in particular not only lack these leadership properties, many of them shun them. AJ's homepageHer writing workshop that I took and recommend Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Josh Bandoch published a book on persuasion, influence, and leadership: How to Get What You Want: Mastering the Art and Science of Persuasion. I wish I'd had this book decades ago. It handles myths many people hold about persuasion that hold people back, then builds up the skills and theory to influence and persuade people effectively. It compiles many essential building blocks of persuasion and influence into one place. We talked about it at length in this episode. I recommend it, and would if I didn't know Josh B. In fact, our shared passion for learning, teaching, and coaching how to lead is a major piece of what connects us. From his book page: Life is about getting what you want. When you’re negotiating a salary, buying a house, or talking politics with your uncle at Thanksgiving dinner, you’re always after the best outcome.Learn from an expert how to get what you want in every situation—no matter who you’re talking to. Your ability to get what you want depends upon your ability to persuade. Unfortunately, the way most people approach persuasion has the opposite effect: we double down on our own perspective and cite tons of facts to make our point—or even try to strong-arm people into giving in. None of this is persuasive. In reality, it pushes people away from us, making it hard or even impossible to get what we want. Persuasion expert Joshua Bandoch has spent over a decade uncovering the secrets of persuasion. He’s mined psychology, neuroscience, economics, public policy, and history for cutting-edge techniques that actually work—and he’s used them in speeches written for senior government officials, national leaders, business executives, and dozens of his own talks to audiences around the world. How to Get What You Want combines Bandoch’s groundbreaking research with practical experience persuading at the highest levels to give you a fresh, surprisingly simple approach that will get you what you want and need when it matters by: Adopting the persuader's mindsetLearning proven techniques for making the most persuasive emotional and logical appealsUnlocking the secret formula for memorable and motivating storiesTapping into the power of tone, body language, and other subconscious signalsHow to Get What You Want teaches you how to navigate any political, professional, or personal situation more effectively to get optimal results each and every day. Josh's home pageHis book page Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

I met Peter in person at a local (Manhattan) event that EarthX hosted for media people. I was invited for hosting this podcast. We spoke about leadership and sustainability. We focused on crossing political boundaries. We shared about our successes in these efforts, how important we consider such tactics and strategies, and how much that success is missing in the US. He invited me to participate in this year's conference, as you'll hear in our conversation. I wrote back that I don't fly, so I'd like to but transportation would be a challenge. I didn't say that I consider conferences that dozens to thousands of people fly to counterproductive because I didn't yet know enough about the conference or him, but I offered a few ways to make it work. You'll hear more in the conversation, but I suggested to him what I've suggested to a couple other conference organizers. If enough people who were flying might switch to a chartered bus, I could help that process. Tune in to hear our conversation on that topic. Also, you'll learn more about EarthX, Peter's relationship with EarthX and why they brought him on, and his start of the Spodek Method. As often happens, it seemed like it couldn't work until it did, and then he looked at his commitment with enthusiasm. Peter's home pageEarthX's pageFor its 2026 conference Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

I met Tzeporah at an event called Climate Week NYC last fall. She was nearly the only person there who spoke about decreasing and stopping extracting fossil fuels. I had to bring her here. Our conversation grew more compelling and interesting as we spoke. The early parts about energy sources besides fossil fuels you may have heard before, but give context. After she shares the realizations that prompted her to lead are what I valued. In particular, she exposes and clarifies how people have simply ignored fossil fuel production or extraction in favor of accounting methods and seeing if they can offset things but not decreasing extraction. She also talked about her strategy, which differs from Paris Agreement approaches and is based on how treaties on land mines and chemical weapons succeeded. She also shares some eye-popping statistics, like how much fossil fuels are used just to transport other fossil fuels, which is just over two-thirds. The bottom line is almost too simple to say, but it bears repeating: we have to stop extracting fossil fuels fast. Tzeporah is one of the few working on, undistracted by things that don't stop us from extracting them. The Fossil Fuel Treaty InitiativeHer TED talk: The bad math of the fossil fuel industryHer book: This Crazy Time: Living Our Environmental ChallengeHer Wikipedia page Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.