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Julie Jarnagin is joined by Jackie Lipinski and Caroline Collard to talk about why some of the oldest ideas in marketing are still winning, why some marketers are hesitant to use newer tools, and what happens when a home builder decides to stop playing it safe. Story Time:Caroline - Creating demand for the Flying Squirrels Jackie - Saving minutes, not hours, with AI Julie - Summit Excitement Announcements:DYC Online Sales and Marketing Summit - Austin, Texas - Over 100 tickets are already gone, secure your spot today. In the News:Google Chrome Skills Turn Gemini Prompts Into Reusable WorkflowsA closer look at OpenAI’s ads manager – and how much work it still needsThe Cockroach of Marketing Concepts Will Never Die Google: We May Use Spam Report Submissions For Manual ActionsA look at Taylor Morrison’s eye-catching marketing campaign

Kevin is joined by Julie and Caroline to discuss an online sales specialist juggling cookies and conversion rates, increasing ad spend as a reflex, and throwing resources at problems without first figuring out what the problem actually is. There is also a friendly debate around AI content strategy that ultimately lands somewhere simple: be clear, direct and useful, and the rest will follow. Story Time:Julie - College visits are a masterclass in customer experienceCaroline - Get a fresh perspective if something’s not workingKevin - Putting money into your problems doesn’t always solve them Announcements:DYC Online Sales and Marketing Summit - Austin, Texas - Tickets Now Available In the News:An OSC's Guide to Time ManagementHow to design content that AI systems prefer and promoteIs Now a Good Time to Buy a House?Spring housing market accelerates despite mortgage rate spike, Zillow's March Market Report shows

Julie Jarnagin joins Jackie Lipinski and Beth Russell to talk about practical challenges marketers face with communication and data storytelling, and the importance of getting out from behind the desk to understand the home buying experience from the customer’s perspective. Hear why strong marketers should combine data, empathy, and real-world insight into consistent messaging and compelling stories to build trust and drive results, despite the doom-and-gloom headlines out there! Story Time: Beth - Building (and not eroding) trust with customers over timeJackie - ChatGPT vs ChatGPT - are you asking the right questions?Julie - Marketers need to “touch grass” and connect their consumers experiences Announcements:Market Proof Marketing Academy - Virtual Event - Register Now - July 7-9, 2026DYC Online Sales and Marketing Summit - Austin, Texas - Tickets Available - October 1-2, 2026 In the news: The 5 Rules to Data StorytellingApple prepares to add search ads to Apple MapsOver Half of Home Listings Have Been Lingering on the Market For More Than 2 MonthsDigital-First Buyers Reshape Model Home Design

In what may be the biggest guest episode of the year, Rand Fishkin, Co-founder and CEO of SparkToro, joins the podcast to talk about AI's role in search results and the importance of navigating the complexities and misinformation within digital marketing - especially around AI tools. Rand brings the research and the reality check on how AI is reshaping search, exposing why its recommendations can fall short and why Google still holds the upper hand. Backed by years of experience and research, Rand cuts through the hype to show what’s actually changing (and what isn’t), from zero-click search to the murky world of AI visibility. It’s a sharp look at modern marketing - and a reminder that trusting platforms blindly is a losing strategy. AI Brand Recommendation ChallengesThey examine how AI-generated recommendations often exclude well-established brands, suggesting that visibility in AI tools isn’t solely driven by traditional marketing performance. For niche and local industries, this creates uncertainty around what actually influences AI inclusion. Geographic Search Intent and AI LimitationsUsing specific geographic search terms improves clarity of buyer intent, particularly for homebuilders, but AI tools still struggle to deliver consistent, reliable recommendations. Google’s deterministic model may offer more dependable results compared to probabilistic AI outputs. AI's Impact on Search BehaviorWhile AI adoption grows, click-through rates from traditional search continue to decline, increasing the importance of zero-click visibility. Kevin and Rand discuss the limits of panel data in measuring behavior and the challenges of accurately interpreting industry-specific trends. Read more of Rand’s Researchhttps://sparktoro.com/blog/new-research-ais-are-highly-inconsistent-when-recommending-brands-or-products-marketers-should-take-care-when-tracking-ai-visibility/ Follow Rand on LinkedInhttps://www.linkedin.com/in/randfishkin/ Learn More about GiveDirectlyhttps://www.givedirectly.org/

Host Kevin Oakley is joined by Beth Russell and Caroline Collard to talk about birthday pancakes for dinner, balancing structure and flexibility in marketing strategies, and how prioritizing the top of the funnel doesn’t ensure better results. They also discuss a new pricing tool for builders and its use for data-informed decision making throughout the home sales process, and how to combat “content decay” by intentionally refreshing content, not always reinventing it. Story Time: Caroline - A quick, but confident, home buying processBeth - Steer clear of the rinse and repeat cycleKevin - Optimizing for leads isn’t always the best idea Announcements:DYC Online Sales and Marketing Summit - Tickets releasing soon - October 1-2, 2026 In the news: Zillow launches Zillow Preview to bring pre-market home listings into the openZonda Enterprise Accelerator Drives Faster, Smarter Home Selling What Is Content Decay? (And How to Fix It Before It Tanks Your Traffic)

Julie Jarnagin sits down with Beth Russell and Caroline Collard to discuss why homebuyers could be completely ignoring your ads, and why being findable now trumps being rankable (the strategies that worked two years ago aren't cutting it anymore). They also dig into what today's buyers genuinely want in a new home, the growing wave of long-distance relocations, and the early (and murky) buzz around ChatGPT ads, including why builders should think twice before responding to those "invitations" landing in their inboxes. Story Time: Julie - Traditional ads aren't just underperforming; buyers are tuning them out entirelyBeth - Exposure therapy for marketers: Getting comfy with Google adsCaroline - What one first-time buyer's search process reveals about how AI is actually changing homebuying In the news: Content alone isn’t enough: Why SEO now requires distributionBuilders gut check what buyers may like vs. what they’ll pay forLong-Distance Moves Tick Up: Nearly 1 in 5 House Hunters Are Looking to RelocateBuilders are receiving spam invites to initiate ChatGPT ads

Host Kevin Oakley joins Julie Jarnagin and Beth Russell to discuss the various forces that are changing how buyers find homes. This episode breaks down why buyers are worried about missing listings, how Compass’s new partnership could reshape the market, and what changing search behavior means for real estate marketing. Story Time:Julie - You steer towards what you’re looking atBeth - Photos aren't enough for your campaignKevin - The REAL reason your web traffic is declining - and why AI is getting blamed. Announcements:Rise and Design - June 24-26, 2026Market Proof Marketing Academy - July 7-9, 2026DYC Summit - More Info Coming Soon - October 1-2, 2026 In the news:Compass & Redfin - The Exclusive Listings Battle Heats Up Search Happens Everywhere: New Research From SparkToroNew Google Help Doc About Google's Web Crawling

Julie Jarnagin joins Caroline Collard and Jackie Lipinski to unpack the marketing moves that matter and discuss trust-building content. This episode dives into smart homebuilder strategy: why “unsexy” homes can still win with the right storytelling, how YouTube and influencers may shape AI-driven search results, what shifting homebuyer age data means for targeting, and why overusing obvious AI writing patterns can quietly hurt engagement. Story Time: Julie - Keeping the leads flowing by addressing concerns strategically, not hanging up red tapeJackie - The more money you spend on something, the more certainty you craveCaroline - Presale excitement is back - is it the year of the launch? In the news: Market Proof Marketing AcademyOutshining the FlashyThe Rundown: Why YouTube has become key for brand GEO strategiesThe Typical First-Time Homebuyer Is 35 Years OldThe AI writing tics that hurt engagement: A study

Kendall Thacker, VP of Product at Legacy South, joins host Kevin Oakley and Beth Russell to discuss his experience with a pre-sale event from the strategy behind it to the lessons learned.  Legacy South Pre-Sale Event StrategyKendall explained that the event was created to address declining Q4 sales by generating urgency and a sense of scarcity among buyers while showcasing their homes.  Model Home Gallery Grand OpeningWith five communities in focus, one new and four underperforming, the Legacy South team repositioned their under-visited model home gallery as a grand opening event. By highlighting new floor plans and hosting it before Thanksgiving, they aimed to create urgency and re-educate buyers on using their model home gallery for their home search. Scarcity Strategy Drives Event InterestKendall and the Legacy South team intentionally closed four communities in December to manufacture scarcity, a bold move that ultimately fueled attendance and urgency. Incentives like $50,000 in savings and $10,000 flex cash, along with strong agent engagement, drove a surge of RSVPs in the final two weeks before the event. Legacy South's Successful Event StrategyKendall described a successful strategy where Legacy South collaborated with a big Nashville influencer to create social proof and drive attendance. The event, held at a model home gallery, featured two large tents - one for a learning center with lenders and design teams, and another for entertainment and food. The event attracted over 250 attendees, resulting in 75 on-site appointments scheduled (plus 10–15 more within 24 hours), with 75% of attendees brand new to the builder. Follow Kendall on LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/kendall-thacker/ Learn More About 2ft Prostheticshttps://www.2ftprosthetics.org/

Julie Jarnagin joins Caroline Collard and Jackie Lipinski to dive into the nitty gritty details that separate effective marketing from flashy trends and flimsy strategies.  From unintended brand messaging in the biggest ads of the year to understanding the halo effect on your brand performance, this episode is full of the kind of compounding analytical attention to detail that actually converts when the market heats up. Listen in to discover where to focus your attention and efforts in this year’s spring market.  Story TimeCaroline - We’re still thinking about the ads from the big game, but that’s not always a good thing.Jackie - Don’t underestimate the obsession you can create from a brand loyal person with the right content. Julie - Are marketers judgier about AI, and does it matter?  In the NewsThe McMansion Era is over: How American homes have changed in 20 yearsU.S. House votes to pass Housing for the 21st Century ActThe Halo Effect: Your Paid Media Went Offline, Can You Survive Without It?Chrome Extensions That Make Your Life Easier

Host Kevin Oakley joins Jackie Lipinski and Beth Russell to discuss the coming shift from search sessions to decision sessions, the value of attention, the growing importance of giving your audience a clear next step, and the personal pain of clearing your browser cache.  If you need a clear next step for your spring marketing plan, listen in for real signals amidst the noise of today’s AI opinions, tactics to avoid the dreaded inventory birthday, and how to hone your messaging to convert locked-in buyers.  Story TimeKevin - You can’t get to urgency or action without attention, so start saying something Jackie - Can a marketer really stop in-person disappointment before it starts?Beth - A tale of two interest rates (and the benefits you can’t cuddle up with at night)In the NewsGoogle Local Hotel Photos "Good To Know" AI LabelsThe Shift From Search Sessions To Decision SessionsA surprising share of homeowners have high mortgage rates. Here’s the breakdown

Kevin Oakley welcomes Haley Naebig, Director of Sales at NoviHome, who shares her ins and outs for 2026. The 2026 Ins and Outs List (Home Builder Edition) Haley shares her take on what needs to stay and what needs to go in the housing industry this year. A Customer Experience Horror Story We get into Haley's real-life experience with the builder of her current home, and it's not pretty. From warranty issues to bizarre customer service interactions, she reveals what not to do if you want referrals and repeat business. What Actually Counts as "Selling" Kevin and Haley debate what sales actually means in 2026. The conversation touches on prospecting, follow-up, and why some sales managers are still blaming marketing for problems they could solve themselves. The Relationship Problem Why do so many builders actively avoid staying in touch with their homeowners? They explore missed opportunities and how to use consistent, helpful communication that keeps the relationship alive. What's Coming from Novi Haley teases some major product releases coming at IBS in Orlando. Plus, she shares what just launched, including co-buyer chat and something called the "Novi Nudge."

Host Kevin Oakley joins Julie Jarnagin and Caroline Collard for a thought-provoking discussion of marketing by design, the importance of diverging perspectives, and a deep-dive into data that dispels the AI attribution hype.  Special AnnouncementsKevin will be interviewing Rand Fishkin this February - Please send in your questions about SEO, consumer behavior, and more to [email protected] for the chance to hear Rand and Kevin discuss them live. The DYC team will be at IBS - come find us on Wednesday! Karla is speaking Wednesday morning on a brand panel and Kevin is speaking in the afternoon on Marketing Against the Giants. You don’t want to miss your chance to learn and connect with us in real life.Story TimeCaroline - Spamming doesn’t exist in silos, and neither do your buyersJulie - Doing the boring things right is still the best playKevin - When there’s only one marketing brain at the table, you can’t bridge the gapIn the NewsNew Research: AIs are highly inconsistent when recommending brands or products; marketers should take care when tracking AI visibilityEvery Marketer Says You Need “Taste”. Here’s What That Actually Means

Julie Jarnagin, Beth Russell, and Caroline Collard unpack why intentional marketing matters more than ever for homebuilders.  From rethinking how buyers experience model home events to finding smarter ways to guide people toward a decision, this episode focuses on knowing your goal and designing the path to get there. If you've been feeling the rut of defaulting to familiar tactics, this episode will spark innovation and intention to get you to the next level.  Story TimeCaroline - Yoga lessons on clear destinations and staying flexible with leading buyers thereBeth - A sneak peek at an upcoming expert lens on events that changes how you think about attention, intention, and impactJulie - How “admin parties” thinking creates experience design for the work no one gets excited about In the NewsTrump signs executive order targeting institutional investorsChatGPT to start showing users ads based on their conversationsSingle-Family Home Size Continues to Decline

Host Kevin Oakley is joined by Jackie Lipinski and Beth Russell for a deep dive into the difference between strategy and intent, the tradeoffs that rule the day, and what you learn from failure. From timeless struggles with SEO, content creation strategy, and letting sales teams be marketers, to the timely news of Redfin's CEO departure and the reigning YouTube SEO advantage, this episode covers wide territory your marketing team needs to know to succeed. Tune in and take notes! Story Time Jackie - An A/B test proves you don’t propose on the first dateBeth - With events, a theme is not a game planKevin - A tale of two seasons (and one counterintuitive winner) In the NewsGlenn Kelman leaves Redfin after 20 years as CEOWhy You Shouldn’t Let Your Onsite Team Create ContentYouTube is no longer optional for SEO in the age of AI OverviewsThe case for and against influencer-led Super Bowl ads