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“God, I am so NOT relaxed right now. But I need to just embrace what I read recently — you need the courage to be rubbish. Just relax, stop worrying about everything being perfect, and do it.” I said that to my dad, Lloyd, as we sat down to record our podcast last week–which turned out to be the opposite of rubbish. We spoke our minds. What it means to live in the gain versus the gap, Lloyd’s honest relationship with pessimism and age, and why we both keep showing up to do this work. Oh, and our latest feelings about the Cubs. Listen on your favorite podcast app using pod.link.     .   View the podcast at the bottom of this post or on our YouTube Channel. Follow us on Social and never miss an update! Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/swarfcast Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/swarfcast/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/todays-machining-world Twitter: https://twitter.com/tmwswarfblog ************* Link to Graff-Pinkert’s Acquisitions and Sales promotion! ************* Episode Transcript Noah: God, I am so NOT relaxed right now. But I need to just embrace what I read recently — you need the courage to be rubbish. Just relax, stop worrying about everything being perfect, and do it. So that’s what we’re going to do today. Lloyd: I will attempt not to be total rubbish. Just partial rubbish. Noah: You don’t want to try to be rubbish — you want to feel okay with being rubbish. Are you okay with being rubbish? Lloyd: It’s difficult to accept. What I really want to be able to say is: today has been a good day. I struggle with that sometimes. Noah: I’m glad to hear that, because you came in an hour ago kind of like me, unsettled. Do you feel grateful today? Lloyd: I do. I feel grateful for having this day. Noah: I just finished listening to this book about gratitude, 30 days, a different angle each day. The one I listened to this morning: be grateful for moments before they happen, not after. Thank the world for this unforeseen, magnificent thing that’s about to happen, even if it seems mundane. So today on my commute, I said: thank you for the magnificent thing that’s going to happen while I’m sending out quotes to customers. Lloyd: I’m grateful to be here with you, passing ideas back and forth, disagreeing, trying to come up with something provocative and useful. Noah: You wanted to talk about why you’re still in the machinery business at 81. Why are you? Lloyd: The question I ask myself every day is: why am I so damn obsessed about age? About being 81. How did I get to live to be 81, and am I still any good at what I’m pretending to do every day? Noah: That’s BS. You’re not pretending anything. Lloyd: There is an aspect of what I’m fighting against: my negativity and pessimism. A leader beset by negativity doesn’t do a good job. I fear my fear about how the business is going to do is self-defeating. Noah: What’s interesting is that business has been so rough for many months, and yet you keep getting right back up. Not complaining. Finding optimism in the next thing. To me, that makes you an amazing optimist. Lloyd: Depends on the day. Every day in business you get hit with problems, with disappointment in others, in yourself. The hard part, and it gets worse as you get older, is staying buoyant. Knowing the next day could be better. Noah: And that’s where the courage to be rubbish comes in. Just push through. Noah: I woke up this morning feeling kind of yucky too. A deal isn’t working, I’m questioning my purpose. But here’s what I do: every night before bed, I write down my wins for the day. 99% of the time, there’s something genuinely positive, a good call with a customer, time with family, learning something new. And every day I write down one serendipitous thing that happened. When you name it, things have more meaning. Lloyd: (on age 81) Some days I think: Lloyd, you’re so fortunate. This is 18 years of gravy after a heart attack, enjoy each day. And other days I think: 81, I’m almost out of days, and that’s depressing precisely because I’m enjoying each one. I don’t want to be out. Noah: That’s living in the gap versus the gain right there. Lloyd: Explain the “Gap in the Gain” concept. Noah: Great book. Highly recommend it. It’s by Dan Sullivan and Benjamin Hardy. The idea: high achievers set ideals, “I want to be rich, I want to be happy,” and they never feel like they’ve arrived because the ideal keeps moving. That’s living in the gap. But if you actually define what a win looks like and document when you win, you start living in the gain. It totally changes your mindset. It’s why it’s powerful to look back at the end of the day before you sleep, and Sullivan even suggests writing down a win for the next day before it’s happened. Lloyd: Write down what you’ve won when you haven’t experienced it yet? Noah: I know, mysterious. I almost never do it. But it ties back to being grateful in advance. I think it puts you in the right frame of mind. Lloyd: I don’t write it, but I imagine it. And giving thanks usually puts me in the right frame of mind to go to sleep. Lloyd: Let’s talk about why we do these podcasts. Why do I write the blog? Noah: The Graff-Pinkert Times, the granddaddy of Today’s Machining World. Was it ever really about business? Lloyd: Honestly? It was a showcase for my writing. Ego gratification, and to brand the company, give it an image of quality and originality. But the underlying reason was as a showcase for my creativity, using the machinery business as a vehicle. Noah: You have a master’s in journalism from Michigan. You wrote for the Michigan Daily. You did it partly because it’s fun. Lloyd: That’s right. And it still is fun. To create something original that nobody has ever done before, and see it published. It’s still a thrill. Noah: I feel like it fills a hole in me, a sense of purpose. I want it to leave its mark. You want something different: you want somebody to actually reach out and say it affected them. Lloyd: I want the dopamine. But I also believe the things I write have sufficient merit that people should read them and get value. The piece I wrote yesterday about my wife Risa’s headache coaching program, I spent a lot of time on it, felt good about it. Then I looked and there were no comments. Did anybody read this? Did anybody care? Noah: We really need to put likes back on the website. Lloyd: But I do believe that somebody in Arizona is going to read that, or tell someone in Boise about it, and they’re going to say: my mother desperately needs this. Noah: Let’s finish on a high note. We’re both very enthusiastic about the Cubs this year. Cade Horton, the phenom everyone was so high on, got hurt after one game and they announced Tommy John surgery, out for the season. The team had been four and six, tight, underperforming. And then the day they announce the surgery, everybody just comes out loose. They win nine to two, then six to two, sixteen hits in the first game. I believe that was serendipity, a jolt that made people play grateful, play loose. What do you think? Lloyd: Let me tell you my true honest belief about my beloved Chicago Cubs. Noah: Mm-hmm. Lloyd: I believe every day, they will lose. Noah: (laughing) Really. Lloyd: Therefore, every victory is a gift, a wonderful upset. Noah: I think when they win, everything’s right with the world. When they lose, eh, it’s just a game. I’m going to think about something else. I think you’re messing around here. Lloyd: I’m telling you the truth. Noah: I think this podcast itself was a little serendipitous. We always say we’re going to do more episodes together. We only end up doing one or two a year. Today I didn’t have anyone else to interview. And we both started out kind of eh, and I think we’re ready to go kick some butt. Lloyd: Let’s do it.   Question: What’s your move when you wake up feeling rubbish?

I often ponder—why do some people own and build companies, while most people are destined to spend their careers as employees. In Part II of my interview with Mike Payne, owner of Hill Manufacturing & Fabrication, we explore this question. Mike comes from a family of six generations of teachers, not business managers or entrepreneurs, and he says he was a “mess” in high school without direction. There’s no question that he’s smart and ambitious, but there are lots of people out there with those qualities, and only a small handful of them acquire and grow manufacturing companies. I enjoyed pushing Mike to analyze how and why he does what he does, and I think he enjoyed being pushed. Spoiler alert, it goes a lot deeper than just making a bunch of money and being your own boss. *********** Listen on your favorite podcast app using pod.link.        View the podcast at the bottom of this post or on our YouTube Channel Follow us on Social and never miss an update! Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/swarfcast Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/swarfcast/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/todays-machining-world Twitter: https://twitter.com/tmwswarfblog ************* Link to Graff-Pinkert’s Acquisitions and Sales promotion! ************* Interview Highlights Do the Richest People Work Less? Noah Graff: Many people in the world work incredibly hard, but the richest people aren’t necessarily the ones working the hardest. What is it about entrepreneurs and successful company owners who can replace themselves that makes them different? Mike Payne: I’ll start with a slight disagreement. You said the richest people don’t work the hardest. I don’t totally disagree, but let me use one example that challenges that—Elon Musk. He’s the richest person in the world, and I’d venture to say he works harder than anybody. Noah: A lot of the richest people don’t work as hard as somebody in India digging a ditch, or somebody working three jobs. It depends what you mean by work. Mike: As a society, we think this way. My own team sees me drive a nice truck and go on trips, and they think, “I’m working harder than he is.” In many ways, they are—physically for sure. This is true of most successful people. And I want to distinguish between business owners and successful business owners, because there are many business owners in the world. If I put myself in the category of someone who works hard and is “successful,” I still get up and go to work every day. But my favorite line, which I read a couple years ago, is perfect here: “The best thing about owning your own company is you get to choose which 80 hours a week you work.” I’m not stuck on someone else’s schedule. I get to do it whenever I want, but I have to do it. Why Mike is a Company Owner Noah: Let’s go back to the hardest question—why are there certain people like you who just naturally take charge? Mike: I have a sense of purpose that’s bigger than me. When we talked about creating opportunities for my people, that’s my purpose. Yes, I want to buy companies, make money, do good deals, but a lot of that purpose is to create opportunities for other people. Your purpose could be a lot of things, but with a purpose, you automatically do more. You’ve got to care about something. I can see it with everybody we hire in the shop. If they have a purpose in their life, they’re a better employee than the ones who see it just as a means to get a paycheck on Friday. Noah: Do you think your parents did something to make you have this mentality? Mike: No, I can’t point to that. My dad’s side of the family is six generations of educators. Mom’s side was farmers, blue-collar labor workers. I didn’t have that “I’m gonna follow in the footsteps” thing at all. But in all honesty, I don’t know that I can even really take credit for it. All I ever did was just work. I work hard. I’m not the smartest person in the world, I’m definitely not the best looking, but I do work hard and I always worked hard. When I got myself in binds, financially or otherwise, the only thing I ever knew to do was work harder. How his Wife Changed Mike’s Life Noah: Can you recall a big serendipitous moment in your life? Mike: My wife and I went to the same high school. I was two years older. We both went to the University of Tulsa. We knew each other, had mutual friend circles, but weren’t close. I was a mess in high school. I didn’t have a lot of direction in life. When I think about me then versus me now, I’m like, how does that journey even add up? How does that guy become this guy? I was finishing my sophomore year of college, she’s coming in as a freshman. I see her at the bar and say, “Hey, I know you, we went to high school together.” It takes me like two months to convince her to go on a date with me because she’s so well-grounded that all she knew was the me from high school. She’s like, “I’m not dating that guy. He’s a mess.” From that point forward, I had to prove myself. I had to convince this woman that I had changed and that I had purpose in life. Quite honestly, I would still tell you today that I out-kicked my coverage. Question: Why do you own your company, or why would you want to own a company?

Today’s AI conversation is about vulnerability—not automation, efficiency, and replacing jobs. Brooks Canavesi, co-founder of Baryons, is taking AI somewhere different. He’s not trying to replace the human. He’s trying to make the human better. I’ve actually been using ChatGPT to supplement my own life coach for a while now, so when I learned what Baryons is building, I had to find out more. The company calls it a Flourishing Partner. It’s an AI platform that checks in with you on your phone, holds you accountable, and actually pushes back when you need it. The goal? Help people flourish. Listen on your favorite podcast app using pod.link.     .   View the podcast at the bottom of this post or on our YouTube Channel. Follow us on Social and never miss an update! Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/swarfcast Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/swarfcast/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/todays-machining-world Twitter: https://twitter.com/tmwswarfblog ************* Link to Graff-Pinkert’s Acquisitions and Sales promotion! Brooks has been in technology for a long time. His team built systems for DARPA, the Department of Defense, Mary Kay Cosmetics, and AccuWeather before landing in the AI space. They were working in machine learning before most people knew what it was. But Brooks is honest about the fact that ChatGPT was a reset for everyone, including them. What he and his team decided to do with that moment is what makes this conversation interesting. While the big frontier labs like OpenAI, Google, and Anthropic raced toward general intelligence, Brooks wanted to build something more specific. Something more human-focused. “We wanted to focus on increasing human agency. Not taking jobs away, but working with humans to improve their overall abilities.” Baryons’ product is voice-based. You call in, talk to your AI Mentor for a few minutes, set your intention for the day, and check back in at the end of your shift. It listens. It remembers. And unlike most AI tools, it’s designed to challenge you, not just tell you what you want to hear. That last part matters more than it sounds. Brooks explained that a lot of therapists are seeing clients come in with damage done by AI tools in between sessions. LLMs such as ChatGPT, Claude, and Gemini can be sycophantic. They agree too easily. They reinforce patterns instead of breaking them. Baryons is built to interrupt that. For businesses, the product goes even deeper. When you have a whole team using it, Baryons anonymizes the signals and surfaces patterns for leadership. If eight out of ten people on the manufacturing floor are mentioning the same supply chain problem, management hears about it without anyone being called out. It’s a way to give employees a voice and give leadership information they’d never otherwise get, especially in a remote or distributed workforce. Brooks told me that people who use Baryons regularly start to change in ways others can notice, including him. “I hear from people I haven’t seen in six months. They say ‘something’s different about you. And it’s a good thing.’” I pushed Brooks to explain what separates Baryons from how I’m using ChatGPT Plus, which has persistent memory built in and could read my voice inflection (though I haven’t used that setting yet). He said there are overlaps, but it’s different when you call Baryons on the phone to check in because the exchange feels even more like talking to a person. The sycophancy is also a huge difference. I asked him to explain why Baryons is different. He said it comes down to what they call the Understanding Engine. It’s a patented technology that analyzes how you speak, the words you use, your tone, and up to 26 dimensions of how you think. It’s designed to build a picture of you the way a person would, organically through conversation, and use that to respond in the way that actually serves you. It doesn’t just reply in a way that feels good in the moment. I like to think I want to be challenged, but I confess that when ChatGPT asks me sensitive questions like a mentor might, sometimes it can really cut. I’ve lashed out at it, saying “you don’t understand me!” I’ll type swear words at it. Sometimes it really doesn’t get me. But unfortunately it’s also right sometimes about things I don’t want to hear (in my case, read on a screen). I am slightly nervous about how it will feel. But I’m going to try Baryons. The image of myself interacting in an oral conversation with an AI agent on my phone makes me uncomfortable. I think before long it’s going to sort of feel like I’m talking to a real person. Thinking about this makes me feel ummmm…what’s another word for uncomfortable. I guess I’ll ask Claude for a suggestion. From Claude: For that last word — you’re describing the feeling of unexpected intimacy with a machine. A few options: Vulnerable — probably the most honest and resonant Exposed — similar but slightly more raw Uneasy — softer, more ambiguous Strange — simple, unpretentious, very you I’d go with vulnerable. It’s honest, it fits the personal development theme of the whole piece, and it’ll resonate with readers who feel the same way about the idea. Question: Could you ever see yourself working with an AI Mentor?

The most interesting things I’ve ever done — the best conversations, the best podcasts, the best calls — they all required me to be confident enough to move forward, when the results were far from certain. Today I’m going to tell you something I just learned that can get that confidence up when you need it most. (Blog continues below video) Listen on your favorite podcast app using pod.link.     .   View the podcast at the bottom of this post or on our YouTube Channel. Follow us on Social and never miss an update! Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/swarfcast Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/swarfcast/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/todays-machining-world Twitter: https://twitter.com/tmwswarfblog ************* Link to Graff-Pinkert’s Acquisitions and Sales promotion! I’ve been selling used machine tools for 15 years in my family’s 80-year-old business. I still get anxious when strangers ask me what I do. Most people don’t know what a machine tool is, let alone a screw machine. Honestly, there are probably moments where I feel insecure about working with my dad. Several years ago, I started using what I call serendipity hooks when I introduce myself — loading my intro with enough different things that something will connect. I’ll say: “I sell used machine tools, but I also host a podcast, and I’m building a YouTube channel about serendipity, which doesn’t leave me much time, because I’ve also got a 4-year-old son who’s amazing.” Something in that list usually lands. But even with that trick, it really bothers me that the first thing on the list, selling machinery, the way I pay my mortgage, my family’s legacy, still doesn’t always come out confidently. And I think a lot of you know this feeling. Maybe you work in a machine shop and other people don’t get it right away when you tell them you’re a setup person or a machinist. You consider yourself a confident person. But that one simple question, “what do you do?” still trips you up. Two weeks ago at the Precision Machined Products Association Management Update conference, the first speaker is a guy named Ryan Avery. His talk is supposed to be about leadership, a topic I know is a weakness of mine, so I’m intrigued, if also a little daunted. Ryan grabs everyone from the get-go. He comes off the stage, walks right into the audience, and tells us we’re going to do an exercise about confidence and he needs a volunteer. I figure, if there’s ever a moment to work on my confidence, this is it. I raise my hand. Suddenly I’m up on stage. The exercise is simple. Ryan asks me to introduce myself to the audience twice. First while stepping backwards. Then while stepping forwards. Now, the PMPA conference is probably the easiest room in the world for me to do this. These are my people. But I want to make it a real test, so I decide to include the serendipity channel in my intro, something many of them might find strange, but hopefully intriguing. First try, stepping back: “Hi, I’m Noah Graff, I sell used machine tools, I host a podcast, and something about serendipity…” The words are fine. The delivery is so so. I know I can do better. Second try, I step forward. “My name is Noah. I sell used machine tools. And I’m passionate about serendipity.” They’re the same words, more or less. But stepping forward flips something in my brain. There’s actually research behind this. Psychologists call it embodied cognition. When you physically move toward something, it activates what they call an “approach mindset.” Your body tells your brain: we’re going in and you can do it. It reminds me of learning to play tennis. Stepping into the ball, not hitting off your back foot–It doesn’t just work mechanically. I think about my favorite shot, 2-handed backhand down the line, moving into the ball with authority. It just feels perfect. The rest of the conference, people keep coming up to me. Other attendees, even some of the other presenters wanting to talk. We end up having some good conversations about AI tools, hiring, all kinds of things. Of course, I still have many flashes of insecurity throughout the weekend. That night I go salsa dancing in Charlotte. There are some decent dancers, but nothing I haven’t seen before. I’ve been dancing even longer than I’ve been selling machines. I’ve shaken it all over the world while doing business. Tokyo, Krakow, Rio, Grand Rapids. I’m confident and it’s an adventure. With dancing it’s hard to know how things are going to go. The experience of dancing with one person can give me such a high. It can be so fun. Then I dance with the next person, who looked like they would be a good dancer, but they give me bad vibes. They don’t smile, we’re not in sync, I start worrying that they’re bored. I can’t wait for that song to end. It’s the same that night in Charlotte as it was in Barcelona and Berlin and Bangkok. But the uncertainty is worth it–dancing with someone new, calling a customer you don’t know, sharing a new idea with a room full of people. You step forward anyway. Because certainty and confidence are not the same thing. Question: Does it ever make you anxious when someone asks what you do for a living? Why?

Federico Veneziano didn’t just buy the machine shop he worked for — he became the sole owner of a 70-year-old company and then changed its name, culture, and direction. When Federico bought American Micro three years ago, there were over 25 shareholders. Now there’s one. The company had 86 employees. Now it’s 130. And the name? Gone. It’s BoldX Industries now. This is part two of our interview. In part one, we covered his journey from Italy to DMG to American Micro to ownership. This episode is about Federico’s rebirth. His vision. A culture shift. Products with purpose, like handcuffs that can’t be picked and ladders that save lives. Expansion plans. A book trilogy. A new baby. What can I say? Federico is bold. Listen on your favorite podcast app using pod.link.     .   View the podcast at the bottom of this post or on our YouTube Channel. Follow us on Social and never miss an update! Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/swarfcast Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/swarfcast/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/todays-machining-world Twitter: https://twitter.com/tmwswarfblog ************* Link to Graff-Pinkert’s Acquisitions and Sales promotion! Interview Highlights 25 Owners to One Federico says he always knew he wanted to own a company. His grandfather ran a logistics company. His father was an architect with his own firm. He grew up around entrepreneurs. American Micro was founded in 1957. By the time Federico bought it, the founder’s six children had become over 25 shareholders across multiple generations. Only four or five were active in the business. No succession plan. In 2023, after several attempts to purchase the company over the years, Federico finally bought full ownership of American Micro. Then he changed the name. Why rename a company with nearly 70 years of history? Federico wanted a fresh start. He wanted something that represented who he is. Handcuffs and Ladders Federico grew up loving machining. But today, he’s moving toward value-added products that BoldX designs and builds from start to finish. One example is handcuffs. The current design used by law enforcement is over 100 years old. It can be shimmed or picked. BoldX owns a new design that eliminates those vulnerabilities. Another product the company produces is a smart ladder for commercial construction, designed to reduce accidents so workers go home to their families. Federico says these products have changed the culture at BoldX. They give employees purpose beyond a paycheck. They’re building things that matter. Integration Over Work/Life Balance Honestly, I get overwhelmed just talking to Federico about all the things he’s up to. He’s running a 130-person company, writing books, starting a publishing company, expanding to multiple states, had a new baby 16 months ago, which he called the happiest moment of his life. But when we talked, he seemed calm about it. Lately I’ve been reading about essentialism, the idea that you have to make hard choices to focus on fewer things that matter most in your life. It seems like Federico continues to add opportunities to his plate because he sees so many interesting ones, which he believes can fit together into an ecosystem. He says he doesn’t believe in separating work and life into silos. The idea is that if his family shares the vision, if the team is aligned, it all moves together. I admire Federico’s incredible ambition and achievements, but I’m awed by his passion for life he exudes.

At 12, he was cutting metal in northern Italy. By 21, he was teaching DMG’s own technicians how to use their machines. At 47, he owns the whole company he first walked into just to set up a machine. Federico Veneziano is the owner of BoldX Industries and an old friend of mine. His story requires two episodes. This is part one: the serendipity, the winding path through shops and countries and setbacks. Part two, we will get into what he’s building now. But first, this is how he got here. Listen on your favorite podcast app using pod.link.     .   View the podcast at the bottom of this post or on our YouTube Channel. Follow us on Social and never miss an update! Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/swarfcast Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/swarfcast/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/todays-machining-world Twitter: https://twitter.com/tmwswarfblog ************* Link to Graff-Pinkert’s Acquisitions and Sales promotion! Interview Highlights Teaching the Experts Federico grew up about 60 miles northwest of Milan in a small town called Omegna. He started working in a machine shop at 12 years old. By his early twenties, he had developed deep expertise on Siemens controls, particularly the 840D. When DMG sent technicians to train him on a new machine, they were still new on the control themselves. He ended up helping them. That information got back to DMG headquarters, and they offered him a job. He traveled the world servicing CNC machines. Eventually he proposed an ambitious plan: working three years in the U.S., two years in Germany, three years in China. They agreed. He arrived in the US on August 4, 2004. His English wasn’t great, nobody had booked him a hotel, and he didn’t have a credit card. The first day was rough but he figured it out. The Job That Changed Everything One of Federico’s first projects was at American Micro in Batavia, Ohio. The company had been founded in 1957 by a Swiss immigrant. He spent a year there setting up a GMC 35, then Gildemeister’s CNC multi-spindle, for a fuel connector job that required gun drilling on a multi-spindle. It had never been done before. The project required developing new spindles and tooling just to make the part work. During that year, he built relationships with the team. When things went wrong with DMG around Christmas 2005, he walked away. He had no plan. It was ten days before the holiday. Then American Micro called. He joined as a process engineer and spent the next two decades working through every department: quality, supply chain, sales, engineering. He became close with the owners, particularly René, one of the founding family’s sons. He bought in as a minority owner, eventually reaching about 14%. He kept that ownership quiet for years. Most people at the company didn’t even know. From Rock Bottom to Owner Then everything hit at once. René passed away. Federico’s father passed within a couple of months. Personal problems piled on. By his own words, it was rock bottom. American Micro was second-generation family owned with no clear succession plan. Federico had tried to buy the company twice before. This time, he decided it was now or never. How does someone go from 14% to sole owner of a company doing $20-25 million in revenue? Federico says it was an amicable transaction where he leveraged multiple things he’d built over the years. He doesn’t go into every detail. But somehow the deal got done. In part two, we’ll get into what he’s building now. BoldX Industries has 125 employees, and Federico says they’re forecasting significant growth. He’s also got a book trilogy coming out. But that’s the next chapter. This one is about how he got here. Question: What twist of fate brought you to your current career?

What happens when a mechanical engineering instructor actually comes from industry—not academia? My guest on today’s podcast is Andrew Schiller from Utah Tech, who spent six years at Caterpillar and GE, and studied theology at seminary, before landing in the classroom. He’s teaching students to think like business owners—understanding costs, not just making parts. But more than that, his students aren’t just learning to push buttons, they’re falling in love with creating things that actually matter. ************* Listen on your favorite podcast app using pod.link.     .   View the podcast at the bottom of this post or on our YouTube Channel. Follow us on Social and never miss an update! Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/swarfcast Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/swarfcast/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/todays-machining-world Twitter: https://twitter.com/tmwswarfblog ************* Link to Graff-Pinkert’s Acquisitions and Sales promotion! ************* Interview Highlights Andrew’s Story Andrew’s path to teaching wasn’t planned. He grew up around his dad’s model-making shop in Chicago, spending countless hours around mills and lathes. “He’s a professional model maker and has a shop,” Andrew told me, describing how that hands-on foundation shaped his interest in making things. After studying mechanical engineering at Valparaiso University, he spent six years at Caterpillar managing technical relationships with suppliers making starters and alternators. He visited manufacturing facilities, did failure analysis, and worked with product groups across the company. Then life took an unexpected turn. “We went to Louisville, Kentucky. I started studying for a master’s degree in theology and worldview,” Andrew explained. While studying Greek and theology at seminary, he worked at GE Appliances on their FirstBuild team, designing products like the Forge Clear Ice Maker. He was juggling full-time graduate studies, 20-25 hours of work, and renovating a house. It was a pace that proved unsustainable with a young family. The path to teaching at Utah Tech happened through pure serendipity. “I literally typed in engineering jobs in St. George, Utah,” Andrew said about a random search while planning a Zion National Park vacation. “The very first thing that came up was the description of the job that I do now.”   What He Teaches His modern machining course teaches students to understand manufacturing from a business perspective. “We’re going to teach about machining processes, not as a craft project that you could do in your garage, but as if you were running a business with a bunch of people and had to make money with a very expensive asset that’s a machine.” “I really realized there is a huge need in the industry for a different kind of education about machining. It’s not a crash course for machinists. It’s a science and business course for engineers.” The program operates on a shoestring budget. Andrew has $160 per student for the entire semester. But that constraint hasn’t stopped him from creating something unique. Students learn hands-on machining while thinking strategically about the business implications of their decisions. “I love having new conversations with people in the industry. It’s how I learn. It’s how I keep our curriculum relevant,” Andrew said. He stays connected to real manufacturing needs by constantly talking with industry professionals. His Purpose Andrew discovered something companies have been telling him consistently: “We need people who they’re not just bodies, but they’re passionate about this industry.” Traditional engineering programs weren’t addressing this gap. His goal goes beyond teaching technical skills. As Andrew puts it, he’s passionate about machining and thinks “it’s cool,” but what really drives him is inspiring that same enthusiasm in students. The companies he talks with are “very excited” about what Utah Tech is doing differently. At 35, with three kids and working 60-65 hours a week, Andrew has found his calling in bridging the gap between academic theory and manufacturing reality. He’s not just producing more engineers. He’s creating people who genuinely care about the industry and understand what it takes to succeed in it. Question: Who was one of your best teachers? Why?

Is an Acme-Gridley the mink coat of machine tools? A well made product that still does a great job, but nobody wants another one. In 2025? No. Not yet. On today’s podcast, Lloyd and I talk about our used machinery business over the last year. We saw one customer drop 20 million for five INDEXs to replace every cam screw machine in their shop. At the same time we sold machines to a multinational automotive supplier who is buying hundreds of Davenport screw machines—many older than me—I’m 45 by the way. ************* Listen on your favorite podcast app using pod.link.     .   View the podcast at the bottom of this post or on our YouTube Channel. Follow us on Social and never miss an update! Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/swarfcast Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/swarfcast/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/todays-machining-world Twitter: https://twitter.com/tmwswarfblog ************* Link to Graff-Pinkert’s Acquisitions and Sales promotion! ************* Interview Highlights The Mink Coat Discovery This Thanksgiving, while going through my mother’s closet, my dad found her 40-year-old mink coat in perfect condition. Once worth $10,000, ChatGPT now values it at maybe $250 to a dealer. The discovery sparked an uncomfortable comparison to the cam screw machines in our stock. “Of course, mink means Acmes to me because Acmes helped pay for the mink,” Lloyd reflects. “These are very functional, valuable machines that were running good parts where we bought them and we feel they have value, however… we have to doubt ourselves.” He poses the question that haunts our business: “Let’s say it is 1-5/8” RB-8 Acme. How much money could somebody potentially make on that machine over the course of one year?” He figures $25,000 to $50,000, maybe more with the right job. “We would sell that machine in that price range. Yet we find no buyers. From an economic standpoint, to me that makes no sense.” A Brutal Year The machinery dealing business has been tough this year. While many of our customers’ businesses remained steady, indecision paralyzed buying decisions—particularly around tariffs. “One of the polls I did on LinkedIn asked if indecision because of tariffs caused them to not buy equipment this year.” Fifty percent said that was one reason why they had not bought equipment. And I will never forget this year’s deal from hell. ”We bought a machine in Germany, sold it to a company in the United States, and then BOOM—tariff. We went from an amazing deal to… I’m amazed we didn’t lose money.” I hate tariffs for a lot of reasons. This one was extra personal. The $20 Million Paradox The market presents striking contradictions. One of our customers recently got rid of 30 cam screw machines, selling them for “$2,000, $3,000, $4,000, $5,000 a piece,” then spent over $3 million each on INDEX CNC multi-spindles—$20 million total to replace their entire shop floor. “I was shocked,” Lloyd admits. “The question was, are they that much better than a 1” Acme?” I explain the economics: “They make an entirely different kind of part. They make a part that you could make a dollar from where you make 10 cents from an Acme part. Or they’re making $10 on that part, and on the Acme, they were making a quarter.” The new machines can handle medical parts, complex geometries—the kinds of high-margin work that justifies the investment. The Davenport Bet Meanwhile, another customer is betting the opposite way, buying hundreds of Davenports for facilities in Mexico and China. Today’s Davenports have a similar design to their original one from 115 years ago. The company is buying so many they’ve ordered Davenport’s entire production capacity for new machines while simultaneously buying used ones. Good ones, bad ones, anything they can find to rebuild. “There are many uses for small parts as bushings or as inserts or pins,” Lloyd explains. “And if you’re catering to a world market… they’re saying to themselves, we want to tremendously expand our capacity because we believe there is a market there and people have abandoned this market.” The China Question Lloyd sees a broader pattern: “The Chinese appear to be able to make good product, not maybe the quality of product being made in the United States or in Europe, but close to it at a fraction of the price.” He worries about Chinese companies producing chips “90 to 95% as good” as NVIDIA’s but selling for 30% less. “They’re able to make an electric car now in China and sell it in the Chinese market for under $10,000, and they’re selling them now in Germany for as low as $16,000.” “In my mind, we’re in a war with China—an economic war.” Gratitude We end where we began—with gratitude. “I get the privilege of working with you,” Lloyd tells me. And I tell him that I have a gratitude list every day in the morning, and he’s on it. Readers, listeners out there—In an industry facing profound disruption, all I can say is adapt, keep picking up the phone and stay grateful. Even if you’re selling machines that might be the mink coats of manufacturing. Question: What machines did you purchase or get rid of in 2025?

Today I’m talking to a guy who believes every company needs to be built to last—not just to flip. Neil Lansing is a turnaround specialist who left private equity to bet his own money on small, underperforming businesses. He’s taken companies from 18 employees to over 400. From $2 million to $40-50 million in revenue. And when everyone else was laying people off in 2008, he told his refrigeration company’s team: “We need more clients.” After transforming mom-and-pop service companies one after another, he found his final stop, Piedmont Machine & Manufacturing. At 67, he’s not looking for the next flip. He’s building something that will outlast him. ************* Listen on your favorite podcast app using pod.link.     .   View the podcast at the bottom of this post or on our YouTube Channel. Follow us on Social and never miss an update! Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/swarfcast Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/swarfcast/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/todays-machining-world Twitter: https://twitter.com/tmwswarfblog ************* Link to Graff-Pinkert’s Acquisitions and Sales promotion! ************* Interview Highlights The Journey from Satellites to Shop Floors Neil started as a satellite engineer at Hughes Aircraft, became a CFO of a publicly traded pharmaceutical company, then worked in private equity doing turnarounds and startups. But eventually he walked away from working with other people’s money to bet his own cash on small businesses. It wasn’t an easy mental shift. As he told me: “I remember the first time I did something. I was sitting there and I remember, now I’m not in corporate America, I’m not in these nice New York digs… I’m in some place where it’s like, my God, what did I get myself into?” But then he told himself: “Quit crying, figure it out, make it work.” The Five-Person Rule One of Neil’s key insights is his management structure. Nobody has more than five direct reports. Not supervisors, not managers, not even Neil as owner. This tight span of control is how he grew his refrigeration company from 10-18 people to over 400 in six years while maintaining quality and accountability. “Everyone has to do what we’re supposed to do,” he explains. “If we all do what we’re supposed to do and take the accountability of what we’re supposed to do, then it can work.” Growing When Others Retreat The 2008 financial crisis tested every business owner, but Neil’s response was counterintuitive. While the country was laying off 700,000 people a month, he gathered his top 10 guys and said: “We’ve just got to get more clients.” By Christmas, they were bringing in all new work. Then their existing clients–Target, Publix, Costco – suddenly needed massive expansions. Neil went from laying off 40-50 people to desperately hiring them back plus another 40-50 more. Why Manufacturing, Why Now After several successful turnarounds, Neil decided manufacturing would be his next chapter. He bought Piedmont Machine in Concord, North Carolina, seeing opportunity where others saw decline. The company does Swiss machining for smaller diameter work and can handle parts up to 30 inches in diameter—from roller bearing components for landing gear to automated door systems. He envisions growing his company to 80-100 employees, consolidating into a new 60-75,000 square foot facility, and implementing comprehensive training programs. The Grinder’s Legacy Neil calls himself a “grinder” – someone focused on day-to-day execution rather than just deal-making. His philosophy centers on personal responsibility: “If I don’t do what I’m supposed to do, then I can’t pay these people. And if I can’t pay these people, that means that we did it wrong.” What drives someone to keep grinding at 67? Neil says it’s about legacy, not money. “Everything I’ve done, it still works. It still runs. If I do something and it goes under or it stops being in existence, then I feel like that’s not a good legacy. That means I didn’t do it right.” Neil doesn’t know how to run a machine and doesn’t want to. He knows how to run a business with clear strategy, deep understanding of people, and balls, and he’s still betting big because that’s what real builders do.

Our guest on the podcast today is Shawn Gaskin, owner of Swiss Technologies of New England and Stone Medical in Plainville, Massachusetts. Shawn started Swiss Technologies over 20 years ago, with one L20 Citizen making parts out of sterling silver for Tiffany and Company. Over the years, his company has grown into a diversified shop, doing a significant amount of medical work. If you want to learn about the medical Swiss components business I recommend you check out this interview. Scroll down to read more and listen to the podcast. Or listen on your phone with Google Podcasts, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your favorite app.     Follow us on Social and never miss an update! Facebook: https://lnkd.in/dB_nzFzt Instagram: https://lnkd.in/dcxjzVyw Twitter: https://lnkd.in/dDyT-c9h Main Points After high school, Shawn worked for a friend of his dad’s who owned a jewelry factory. The company purchased a Citizen L20 Type V Swiss lathe to make parts out of sterling silver for Tiffany and Company, which went into items like key rings, pill boxes and whistles. Shawn characterizes machining sterling silver as across between machining aluminum and titanium. It produces chips like aluminum and the has the abrasiveness of titanium.  The jewelry company rented space for the Citizen in a nearby machine shop, where Shawn was tasked with learning to run it. After several years, Shawn’s boss gave him the opportunity to find more work for the Citizen, giving him a 15% commission on what he brought in. Eventually, Shawn started his own company, borrowing $40,000 from his parents and $80,000 from his former boss, who he then supplied parts for. He built Swiss Technologies starting with the original 1997 Citizen he had learned on.  Eventually, the jewelry job slowed down, so he was forced to find new work. He caught a huge break getting a job running parts that went into ATM machines. In a single purchase order, Swiss Technologies went from doing $450,000 in sales to $2.4 million. Unfortunately 60% of the company’s business came from one customer. In 2015, when the ATM machines got a new design, the work went to China, taking away 35% the company’s revenue. Shawn knew he needed to diversify, so he increased Swiss Technologies’ sales and marketing and obtained ISO 9001 certification, which increased the company’s customer opportunities. In 2018, the company obtained ISO 13485 certification for medical work. Shawn characterizes this big move into medical as an overhauling of the business. Medical Swiss Parts Business Swiss Technologies got its first medical job when a shop nearby had an overflow of work. Shawn says he realized medical work was a good place to be when he went from jobbing machines at $50-$60 per hour to $125-$150 per hour.  Shawn says Medical work is generally categorized as external or internal. External medical work signifies making parts for medical devices such as IV pumps or syringes, while internal medical work refers to implantables, parts that are put into the body, such as bone screws.  He says external medical work is lucrative, but internal medical work is generally more lucrative. Doing internal medical work requires significant investment, such as purchasing liability insurance. As a company doing $3.5 million in revenue with 17 employees, Shawn says he pays around $25,000 per year for insurance, and there are only four or five companies who offer the insurance.  Often medical customers want suppliers to have all of their processes in-house, such as anodizing, passivating, deburring, and laser marking. Swiss Technologies and Shawn’s other company Stone Medical don’t offer all of those services, which adds to the challenge of competing in the medical parts arena. Advice for companies wanting to get into Swiss Machining Shawn says “bigger is not always better” for a Swiss machining company. He thinks a company can be successful with three or four employees and four to six machines. He encourages ambitious people to not be afraid to start with one machine making parts in the garage because there is a lot of work out there for companies who have low overhead.  For companies trying to break into medical work, he recommends trying to get Tier 2 work to begin with. Shawn says if he could go back and time and do things differently at his business he would have trained his people better. When he was making high volume parts for ATM machines, the shop’s machines needed few change-overs, so his people didn’t develop their skills setting up new jobs. He says today he has the best crew the company has ever had. He makes a point of training his people to think independently by giving them time to struggle with problems in shop, even if it means machines are down sometimes. Shawn says he usually gets on the shop floor two and half to three hours a day. He says it’s good to show his employees he is with them in the trenches, to help them solve problems and for him to understand what is going on in the shop. But more than that, he is on the shop floor because of his passion for Swiss machining. He loves the equipment and the processes. He needs to get his hands covered in oil like he did when he started on his first L20, which is still in use today.  Question: What are your favorite type of parts to make?

Our guest on today’s podcast is Elliott May, engineer at BME in Port Huron, Michigan. BME builds original custom attachments for cam multi-spindles. They also rebuild Acme-Gridley screw machines. Elliott and I talked about a lot of fascinating things in this interview. How to keep old mechanical beasts relevant, getting young people into machining, and what it’s like to work closely everyday with your dad—who’s also the boss. Scroll down to read more and listen to the podcast. Or listen on your phone with Google Podcasts, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your favorite app. Find us on Social: Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/swarfcast Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/swarfcast/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/todays-machining-world/ Twitter: https://twitter.com/tmwswarfblog Main Points Custom Attachments Elliott says that customers come to BME when they want to make a part on a cam screw machine but can’t figure out how to make it happen. The company offers an extensive line of proprietary attachments such air operated pickoff assemblies, rotary recess attachments, and synchronized slotting/milling attachments.  Elliott’s father, Brett, started BME 15 years ago. Nine years ago, Elliott started working at the company at age 14. His first job was cutting steel bars with a bandsaw. Later he worked in shipping and receiving, and then graduated to assembling attachments for multi-spindles. After studying engineering for a few years he began working in tandem with his father engineering attachments. Generally they are tasked with tweaking attachments already in their product line to suit the jobs of specific customers. A few times a year, they are called upon to engineer more novel devices, when a customer’s job calls for something special that they haven’t invented yet. Elliott says his father, Brett, is the “idea guy.” Brett analyzes what he wants to accomplish, then Elliott puts the idea down on paper (often CAD). They both are constantly putting their heads together to solve problems. It’s not uncommon for the two to stand at several whiteboards for long periods of time, brainstorming various drawings, trying to work out a solution. Elliott says they have a good chemistry at work, and over the years his role has changed as his knowledge and skills have grown. He admits that when he was younger and less experienced he may have been too overconfident in his ideas and he had to be put in his place. But nowadays, it sounds like he is genuinely challenging his dad in the engineering room. Acme Rebuilding  As a used machinery dealer myself, selling old cam multi-spindles, I grilled Elliott on a lot of the same questions we grapple with at Graff-Pinkert, our family business. I asked him if rebuilding old multi-spindles from the ground up, particularly Acmes, was a good business to be in. Graff-Pinkert still refurbishes some cam multi-spindles such as Wickmans and Davenports, but the work we do is much less comprehensive than that of BME. Also, we stay away from doing a lot of work on Acmes. The parts for Acmes can be very expensive, and the Acme rebuilding process is extremely labor intensive. For a rebuilt Acme, BME charges several hundred thousand dollars. The price depends a lot on what kind of turnkey the customer requires, if any. Elliott says the rebuilding and attachment businesses compliment each other. Often the rebuilt machines come equipped with BME’s proprietary attachments. He says he believes the cam multi-spindle business has a significant future because the machines are often still the best option for high volume jobs, assuming companies have the personnel to run them. Elliott May, Engineer at BME Young People in Machining  I asked Elliott why it’s a struggle to get young people to go into manufacturing and an even greater struggle to get them to run old multi-spindles. He says manufacturing has to shake off its bad reputation from the past, as having a top-down style of management that doesn’t care about the needs of employees. He suggests that if manufacturing employees could count on a clean, pleasant work environment, and felt supported and heard by management, more people would want to go into the field.  Working with His Dad I was very curious to get Elliott’s perspective about working closely with his father, as I also work with my father. I asked him if he felt like he was in a strange position as someone who is not the boss, but also not a normal employee either. It’s a position that I’ve often analyzed for over a decade.  Despite being only 23, Elliott says he has the advantage of having the longest tenure at BME of all its employees. He also says because of his experience and confidence in his ability, he earns the respect of his coworkers. I remarked to him during the interview that he often referred to his dad in the third person as “Brett,” rather than “my dad.” He says it’s a useful way to draw less attention to himself as the boss’s son, even if everybody knows he is. I personally have seldom used this strategy because referring to my dad as “Lloyd” just feels strange. But I admit that I sometimes refer to him as “the boss,” or some other euphemism, when I’m talking about him at work. It was Brett’s idea for me to ask Elliott to be on the podcast. I could genuinely feel his enthusiasm about the idea when he suggested it to me over the phone. I joked to him that it seemed like he was really “kvelling” about his son excelling in the business. He easily inferred the meaning of my Yiddish.  After interviewing both Brett and Elliott, it’s clear to me that both men share a passion for the nuts and bolts, and working together. Question: What’s something important you learned from your father?

Most of us don’t have a knack for pivoting.  We follow the standard curriculum, and we keep going forward when we get in a lane, whether we believe it’s the right direction or not. But for Michael Gimbel, my guest on today’s show, seeing setbacks as serendipity and then pivoting is a natural gift. Michael built a CNC router in his garage by age 12. He dropped out of an elite university after one year to start a company selling 3D printing technology that he invented. When the company failed, he picked up the pieces, shifting to contract manufacturing and engineering consulting. But that business didn’t excite him, so Michael pivoted again to manufacture a spindle gripper he developed for automating his own vertical CNC mills. Today his company, Gimbel Automation, is thriving and his spindle grippers are saving machining companies hundreds of thousands of dollars on automation. And he’s only 26! ************* Listen on your favorite podcast app using pod.link.        View the podcast at the bottom of this post or on our YouTube Channel. Follow us on Social and never miss an update! Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/swarfcast Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/swarfcast/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/todays-machining-world Twitter: https://twitter.com/tmwswarfblog ************* Link to Graff-Pinkert’s Acquisitions and Sales promotion! ************* Interview Highlights The Startup Noah: Tell me about your interesting career journey. Michael: I got to college and was totally miserable. I was doing things I’d already studied and aced because they wanted me to. It was such a downgrade from the equipment. The only thing I could fit in my dorm was a little 3D printer. I went from having a full shop to just a couple of crappy pieces of equipment, taking courses I’d already taken. I got burnt out and chose to drop out after a year. To be honest, I felt like I wanted to do my own thing. Hopkins is good for the right person, but it wasn’t me. You have to want to follow everything from A to B to C by the book, believing in the process. I’m the kind of person who wants to try everything, see what I can do, and see where I fail. It’s not a place that curates failure on your own, and that’s what I really needed. Noah: Interesting. So you decided to leave after freshman year? Michael: I completed freshman year, dropped out, and convinced six or seven professors to give me about $70 grand as startup seed money. Then I moved to Los Angeles and raised venture capital. I raised about 1.25 million dollars as a 19-year-old with just a dream, a plan, and a couple of experimental 3D printers. I had invented a new 3D printing process. From there, it was its own wild ride. Noah: Then what happened? Michael: What happened was exactly what you’d expect when you hand a million dollars to a 19-year-old. I tried to run the company, but I didn’t know what I was doing. We made cool tech developments, but I didn’t understand how to manage people or how to get things to the next level. Ultimately, that first company failed. Contract Manufacturing and Engineering Consulting Noah: What came next? Michael: There’s a long, convoluted path to my next stage. The company’s assets traded hands a couple of times. The original investors didn’t want anything to do with it because it was a money pit. Eventually, it came into my hands and I ended up paying off all the debts. I had the idea to run a job shop or contract manufacturer again, to have all these machines in this space for my next chapter. I’d looked for jobs but couldn’t get behind anything, thinking I’d fall into building someone else’s dream. I wanted to build my own thing, even if it was difficult. And it was definitely difficult. I started doing job shop work for startups. I learned quickly that startups are awful customers because most don’t exist in a year or two. We slowly moved into engineering consulting. The startup company was 3D printing, but to do our own R&D, we had machines – a water jet, a Haas CNC machine. I thought, we need to make money now, so we’ll do job shop work. That’s how we started and how I paid off the debts at first. We then moved into engineering consulting and production work, like specialty stuff and art. We were doing all the stuff other shops didn’t want to do because it wasn’t full production quantities and was complicated. We took on customers who didn’t have drawings but needed certain requirements. We grew rapidly, doubling in size every year. We quickly built up to four people. Everything was great. We were mostly in engineering consulting, not only making parts but designing components, putting assemblies together, and testing them. Then COVID hit, turning our whole business upside down. 90% of the revenue disappeared. I had to lay off two people and put one part-time. This was the only time I ever laid people off. We started making face shields for a while and found a way through. It took a year and a half, but the engineering consults came back. People had projects they wanted to accelerate. The year felt like a rocket ship. Right after COVID, we won a big engineering consulting job that added 35% to our revenue overnight. Then it happened again with another customer. We were growing really fast, but you also have the tension of having one huge customer and working around their demands. Before the breakthrough, there was another “Icarus flies too close to the sun” moment. I didn’t really love consulting. It never made me excited to wake up in the morning. We had a four-month R&D project where we lost about $350,000 developing a metal 3D printing system. I was convinced it would be great. We built it, it worked, the machinery was awesome, but when we tried to test it in the market, it failed. I was a bit bored and looking for shiny objects to work on, but the big thing in my head was needing stable, recurring revenue in addition to these big customers. I really wanted a product. I think a lot of job shops have felt that. I’d been working on projects when bored for years. I once built an all-metal operational clock with a swinging arm. We built a shrink fit machine with virtual holders. One of the things we’d built was a spindle gripper to run internal production on our own components. The Spindle Gripper Gimbel Automation CNC Robot Gripper Noah: Explain how the spindle gripper works. Michael: A spindle gripper goes into the automatic tool changer of your machine, loading into the spindle like a tool. This whole sub-assembly goes into your spindle, and when air is turned on, it closes. This allows it, like a robot gripper, to grab a component. Parts are loaded onto the table in a tray on a grid. The gripper comes down, clamps on a part in the grid, lifts up, and drops it off in an automated vise. It does this without an external robot. We invented a new method for machines without through spindle air coolant, which is a huge portion of the market. We soft launched it and sold quite a few. We started with a couple big customers who liked what we were doing. We’ve exponentially grown the automation business from there, adding air vises, a conveyor loading system, and modules. Lately, we’ve focused on delivering total automation solutions. Noah: You came up with this because you were short on people? Michael: When I invented it, there were four of us, but I was the only one who could run a CNC machine. For production orders, I had to either turn them away or do them myself. It was built out of necessity – I needed a way to run parts. We used it for years before turning it into a product, which is now our primary business. Noah: It’s a gripper that hooks onto the spindle. How is it automation? The part still has to get in the machine. Don’t you need a robot, person, or loading system? Michael: We put at least one piece of automated work holding, like an air vise, onto the table, and have a fully adjustable part tray grid. You need room for a vise and a tray, and one of these grippers goes in the spindle. You set the vise, and using our program generator or automated templates, you upload your program. It’s as easy to program a run of 20 as it is for your setup guy to run one part. When you hit go, the generated program moves the table so the tray of parts is perfectly under the gripper. The gripper comes down, clamps a part, lifts up, centers over the vise, deposits the part, and the machining cycle runs. For a simple one-operation pallet system, we put that part back and move to the next one. The machine keeps going until the tray is empty. We’ve taken it further with a system using a second vise for the second operation and an integrated flip station for a third operation in the same cycle. Questions: When did you pivot in your business or life? What would you like to pivot to? Transcript was generated with the assistance of claud.ai.

Is an Acme-Gridley the mink coat of machine tools? A well made product that still does a great job, but nobody wants another one. In 2025? No. Not yet. On today’s podcast, Lloyd and I talk about our used machinery business over the last year. We saw one customer drop 20 million for five INDEXs to replace every cam screw machine in their shop. At the same time we sold machines to a multinational automotive supplier who is buying hundreds of Davenport screw machines—many older than me—I’m 45 by the way. ************* Listen on your favorite podcast app using pod.link.     .   View the podcast at the bottom of this post or on our YouTube Channel. Follow us on Social and never miss an update! Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/swarfcast Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/swarfcast/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/todays-machining-world Twitter: https://twitter.com/tmwswarfblog ************* Link to Graff-Pinkert’s Acquisitions and Sales promotion! ************* Interview Highlights The Mink Coat Discovery This Thanksgiving, while going through my mother’s closet, my dad found her 40-year-old mink coat in perfect condition. Once worth $10,000, ChatGPT now values it at maybe $250 to a dealer. The discovery sparked an uncomfortable comparison to the cam screw machines in our stock. “Of course, mink means Acmes to me because Acmes helped pay for the mink,” Lloyd reflects. “These are very functional, valuable machines that were running good parts where we bought them and we feel they have value, however… we have to doubt ourselves.” He poses the question that haunts our business: “Let’s say it is 1-5/8” RB-8 Acme. How much money could somebody potentially make on that machine over the course of one year?” He figures $25,000 to $50,000, maybe more with the right job. “We would sell that machine in that price range. Yet we find no buyers. From an economic standpoint, to me that makes no sense.” A Brutal Year The machinery dealing business has been tough this year. While many of our customers’ businesses remained steady, indecision paralyzed buying decisions—particularly around tariffs. “One of the polls I did on LinkedIn asked if indecision because of tariffs caused them to not buy equipment this year.” Fifty percent said that was one reason why they had not bought equipment. And I will never forget this year’s deal from hell. ”We bought a machine in Germany, sold it to a company in the United States, and then BOOM—tariff. We went from an amazing deal to… I’m amazed we didn’t lose money.” I hate tariffs for a lot of reasons. This one was extra personal. The $20 Million Paradox The market presents striking contradictions. One of our customers recently got rid of 30 cam screw machines, selling them for “$2,000, $3,000, $4,000, $5,000 a piece,” then spent over $3 million each on INDEX CNC multi-spindles—$20 million total to replace their entire shop floor. “I was shocked,” Lloyd admits. “The question was, are they that much better than a 1” Acme?” I explain the economics: “They make an entirely different kind of part. They make a part that you could make a dollar from where you make 10 cents from an Acme part. Or they’re making $10 on that part, and on the Acme, they were making a quarter.” The new machines can handle medical parts, complex geometries—the kinds of high-margin work that justifies the investment. The Davenport Bet Meanwhile, another customer is betting the opposite way, buying hundreds of Davenports for facilities in Mexico and China. Today’s Davenports have a similar design to their original one from 115 years ago. The company is buying so many they’ve ordered Davenport’s entire production capacity for new machines while simultaneously buying used ones. Good ones, bad ones, anything they can find to rebuild. “There are many uses for small parts as bushings or as inserts or pins,” Lloyd explains. “And if you’re catering to a world market… they’re saying to themselves, we want to tremendously expand our capacity because we believe there is a market there and people have abandoned this market.” The China Question Lloyd sees a broader pattern: “The Chinese appear to be able to make good product, not maybe the quality of product being made in the United States or in Europe, but close to it at a fraction of the price.” He worries about Chinese companies producing chips “90 to 95% as good” as NVIDIA’s but selling for 30% less. “They’re able to make an electric car now in China and sell it in the Chinese market for under $10,000, and they’re selling them now in Germany for as low as $16,000.” “In my mind, we’re in a war with China—an economic war.” Gratitude We end where we began—with gratitude. “I get the privilege of working with you,” Lloyd tells me. And I tell him that I have a gratitude list every day in the morning, and he’s on it. Readers, listeners out there—In an industry facing profound disruption, all I can say is adapt, keep picking up the phone and stay grateful. Even if you’re selling machines that might be the mink coats of manufacturing. Question: What machines did you purchase or get rid of in 2025?

Last week, I heard a story about an old customer of Graff-Pinkert who lost three key machinists because a shop down the street was paying more. It led me to make a post on Linkedin, asking if machinists and setup people were paid enough to attract young people to the machining field. On the whole, commenters vented that they were not compensated what they felt they deserved working in the machining industry.  The post has 53 comments so far (I’m usually lucky to get one). The big question is, are manufacturing jobs in the United States, machining jobs in particular, attractive enough to fill the labor shortage that everyone continues to cry about? I thought back to one of my favorite podcast interviews, in which I spoke to Adam Wiltsie of Vanamatic, a 3-generation screw machine shop in Delphos, Ohio. In the interview, Adam told me that Vanamatic does not have a talent shortage and enjoys incredible employee retention, in part due to innovative recruitment strategies and flexible schedules.  I don’t know what the company pays its employees, but Adam told me that when business came roaring back after the Covid-19 dive in 2020, Vanamatic raised wages $5 for all employees. I spoke with Adam yesterday and he said that employee retention is even better than it was two years ago. Even if you’ve memorized this story already, I recommend you check out the original blog and listen to the podcast. They’re good even a second time around! Listen with the player at the bottom of the page or at your favorite podcast app.                                                                                                  View the podcast our YouTube Channel. Follow us on Social and never miss an update! Facebook: https://lnkd.in/dB_nzFzt Instagram: https://lnkd.in/dcxjzVyw Twitter: https://lnkd.in/dDyT-c9h Original Blog After Graff-Pinkert sold a second used Lico CNC lathe to Vanamatic, a 3-generation screw machine shop in Delphos, Ohio, I had a great conversation with Adam Wiltsie, the company’s Director of Operations. At that moment, I was quite envious of Adam—I was sitting at my desk in my office, while he was outside on a beautiful July Friday afternoon, waiting in line his local ice cream institution Dairy Hut. Adam gets out of the office on Friday afternoons. He gets to tailor his work schedule, and contrary to what one might assume, this is not just a perk for members of the company’s leadership team. Vanamatic allows a flexible work schedule for all its 103 employees. Adam says this is a key reason why the company has not been suffering from a shortage of skilled people, that so many other manufacturing companies often complain about. In fact, 103 employees is a record number for the company, which happens to be located in a town of 6,000 people. Vanamatic was founded in 1953 by Adam’s grandfather in Delphos, Ohio. Today, the company is run by a leadership team made up of Adam, his brothers Scott and Jared, Steve Schroeder and Dave Ricker. The company makes parts for a variety of sectors including automotive, aerospace, fluid power, agriculture, construction, fittings, and refrigeration. The majority of its machines are 8-Spindle VNA Conomatics— 1-5/8” and 2-5/8” capacity. For those unfamiliar with Conomatics, or “Cones” as they’re often called, think of an ACME-GRIDLEY but heavier and a larger tool zone. Adam says the company loves the machines because “they can push feed rates like no other.” Cones aren’t built anymore so Vanamatic has its own rebuilding program for the machines. The company also has CNC turning centers, a few other brands of multi-spindles, and 10 Lico CNC lathes—picture a sexy, beefed up 11-axis CNC Brown & Sharpe.  Adam is 42 years old, with three kids. He says having kids influenced his management style because it made him realize that every person works differently. Vanamatic’s management philosophy takes into account that all of the company’s employees have different requirements to bring out their peak performance and make them happy. Treating every individual employee uniquely bucks the traditional collective style of management in manufacturing companies, which Vanamatic had employed for the majority of the company’s life. Adam Wiltsie, Director of Operations of Vanamatic A while back, Adam and his brother Scott, head of Human Resources, implemented a management strategy called Start, Stop, Improve. Every year, they sit with each individual employee and ask them what they would start, stop or improve on a company level, a department level and an individual level. In the process, they learned that many people at the company desired a better work-life balance. They realized that by implementing flexible hours they could improve the lives of employees who prefer to be with their families at different times of day. Flexible hours could also accommodate employees who have hobbies or outside projects they want to pursue. For most of Vanamatic’s existence, the company had a standard work week for every employee, of four 10-hour days and one 8-hour day. Fifteen years ago, the collective model was thrown out. Currently, all shop employees, aside from primary production operators, have the choice to work between 35 to 50 hours per week. Primary production operators can work 45 to 60 hours per week. Employees have the right to work within those ranges at their discretion without approval from supervisors. Every two weeks, the company takes a look at what work needs to be done and maps out a plan. Shop workers manage schedules amongst themselves to get the necessary work completed. In the past, some of Vanamatic’s customers came to the company and demanded it implement a policy making its people work a minimum of 56 to 60 hours per week, but it refused to change its policy. Adam says loyal, happy, skilled employees are the essential element to keep the company successful, so it can’t afford to alienate or lose them. They take precedence over an annoyed customer. Vanamatic’s management philosophy was a lifesaver in May of 2020, when its business fell 50%. The company gave its employees the choice to work 0 to 50 hours per week. It even laid off employees if they volunteered to be and then helped them sign up for unemployment benefits. When work came roaring back later in 2020, Vanamatic needed to get all of its people back fast. Instead of complaining about unfair competition against government assistance money, the company raised wages $5 above what workers were previously earning. Employees came back and felt valued. Now they are fueling Vanamatic to set a record pace for the company in 2021. Question: Are machining jobs in the United States attractive enough to fill the labor shortage that everyone continues to cry about?

Today I’m talking to a guy who believes every company needs to be built to last—not just to flip. Neil Lansing is a turnaround specialist who left private equity to bet his own money on small, underperforming businesses. He’s taken companies from 18 employees to over 400. From $2 million to $40-50 million in revenue. And when everyone else was laying people off in 2008, he told his refrigeration company’s team: “We need more clients.” After transforming mom-and-pop service companies one after another, he found his final stop, Piedmont Machine & Manufacturing. At 67, he’s not looking for the next flip. He’s building something that will outlast him. ************* Listen on your favorite podcast app using pod.link.     .   View the podcast at the bottom of this post or on our YouTube Channel. Follow us on Social and never miss an update! Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/swarfcast Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/swarfcast/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/todays-machining-world Twitter: https://twitter.com/tmwswarfblog ************* Link to Graff-Pinkert’s Acquisitions and Sales promotion! ************* Interview Highlights The Journey from Satellites to Shop Floors Neil started as a satellite engineer at Hughes Aircraft, became a CFO of a publicly traded pharmaceutical company, then worked in private equity doing turnarounds and startups. But eventually he walked away from working with other people’s money to bet his own cash on small businesses. It wasn’t an easy mental shift. As he told me: “I remember the first time I did something. I was sitting there and I remember, now I’m not in corporate America, I’m not in these nice New York digs… I’m in some place where it’s like, my God, what did I get myself into?” But then he told himself: “Quit crying, figure it out, make it work.” The Five-Person Rule One of Neil’s key insights is his management structure. Nobody has more than five direct reports. Not supervisors, not managers, not even Neil as owner. This tight span of control is how he grew his refrigeration company from 10-18 people to over 400 in six years while maintaining quality and accountability. “Everyone has to do what we’re supposed to do,” he explains. “If we all do what we’re supposed to do and take the accountability of what we’re supposed to do, then it can work.” Growing When Others Retreat The 2008 financial crisis tested every business owner, but Neil’s response was counterintuitive. While the country was laying off 700,000 people a month, he gathered his top 10 guys and said: “We’ve just got to get more clients.” By Christmas, they were bringing in all new work. Then their existing clients–Target, Publix, Costco – suddenly needed massive expansions. Neil went from laying off 40-50 people to desperately hiring them back plus another 40-50 more. Why Manufacturing, Why Now After several successful turnarounds, Neil decided manufacturing would be his next chapter. He bought Piedmont Machine in Concord, North Carolina, seeing opportunity where others saw decline. The company does Swiss machining for smaller diameter work and can handle parts up to 30 inches in diameter—from roller bearing components for landing gear to automated door systems. He envisions growing his company to 80-100 employees, consolidating into a new 60-75,000 square foot facility, and implementing comprehensive training programs. The Grinder’s Legacy Neil calls himself a “grinder” – someone focused on day-to-day execution rather than just deal-making. His philosophy centers on personal responsibility: “If I don’t do what I’m supposed to do, then I can’t pay these people. And if I can’t pay these people, that means that we did it wrong.” What drives someone to keep grinding at 67? Neil says it’s about legacy, not money. “Everything I’ve done, it still works. It still runs. If I do something and it goes under or it stops being in existence, then I feel like that’s not a good legacy. That means I didn’t do it right.” Neil doesn’t know how to run a machine and doesn’t want to. He knows how to run a business with clear strategy, deep understanding of people, and balls, and he’s still betting big because that’s what real builders do.