Advertise on podcast: CX Files

CX Files Episode 436 – Randy Arellano, Founder, Ascent Growth Advisors, Dallas, Texas AI is changing how companies research and select BPO partners. Buyers can now compare suppliers, investigate locations, and explore solutions long before they speak to a salesperson. So what does this mean for the future of BPO sales? In this episode of CX Files, Mark Hillary and Peter Ryan introduce a conversation with Randy Arellano, founder of Ascent Growth Advisors and an experienced BPO sales leader. Randy argues that AI is raising the bar for sales professionals. Relationships and personal networks still matter, but they are no longer enough. Buyers need experienced advisers who can challenge assumptions, diagnose problems, understand technology, and recommend solutions that deliver genuine business outcomes. The discussion explores several important changes shaping the BPO sales team of the future: AI-informed buyers: Why salespeople need to offer more than information buyers can already discover through ChatGPT or Claude. Consultative selling: Why understanding the customer's real business problem is more valuable than simply offering contact centre capacity. Trust and relationships: How experienced salespeople can challenge assumptions and offer advice that may not always lead to an immediate sale. Better prospect qualification: Why ideal customer profiles and business trigger events matter more than building a large but poorly qualified pipeline. Cross-functional sales teams: Why solutions, operations, pricing, legal, and implementation teams must share responsibility for winning and delivering complex BPO deals. Sales and marketing alignment: How marketing teams can use insights from sales conversations to create evidence-based content that answers the questions buyers are actually asking. The shift to outcomes: Why salespeople must understand AI, automation, and outcome-based commercial models rather than focusing on headcount and traditional pricing. Randy also explains why AI could make some previously uneconomic customer service decisions viable, including bringing high-value customer support back onshore. The central message is clear: AI may transform the early stages of BPO procurement, but the ability to diagnose problems, build trust, and bring together the right expertise will define the most successful sales teams. The sales team of the future will need to be more consultative, more technically fluent, and more closely integrated with the wider business than ever before.   https://www.linkedin.com/in/randyarellano/

CX Files Episode 435: Beyond FTEs – The Road to Outcome-Based BPO Pricing Guest: Victor Manzanera, Founder and Principal Analyst, Scale Edge Group – Oslo, Norway Everyone in the BPO industry is talking about outcome-based pricing, but how do we actually move away from charging for headcount and hours? And is the industry ready for such a fundamental change? In this episode of CX Files, Mark Hillary and Peter Ryan explore the challenges of traditional BPO contracts before Mark interviews Victor Manzanera, founder of Scale Edge Group. Victor has just published The Outcome-Based BPO Model, a 33-page report examining how BPO buyers and suppliers can gradually transition from traditional FTE pricing towards contracts that reward genuine business outcomes. Key discussion points include: Evolution, not revolution: Why outcome-based pricing requires a gradual transition rather than an overnight replacement of FTE contracts. Rethinking KPIs: Why traditional performance metrics often have little connection to the business outcomes clients actually want. Sharing the rewards: How gain-sharing agreements and meaningful bonuses can encourage BPOs to improve efficiency, customer retention, and revenue. The AI incentive problem: Why headcount-based contracts can discourage automation and how new commercial models could accelerate AI adoption. Beyond pricing: Why achieving better outcomes may require different agent skills, training, technology, and operating models. Practical next steps: How buyers can start changing their BPO relationship immediately, even without renegotiating their entire contract. Victor argues that the most important change is not simply how BPOs get paid, but how buyers and suppliers define success and work together to achieve it. The central message: Stop buying people and hours. Start building partnerships focused on business results. Victor's report, The Outcome-Based BPO Model, was published by Scale Edge Group on October 14, 2026, and is freely available through Scale Edge Group - link is below. --- https://www.linkedin.com/in/victor-manzanera/ https://www.scaleedgegroup.com/ https://www.scaleedgegroup.com/outcome-based-bpo-model https://www.linkedin.com/posts/scale-edge-group_bpo-outsourcing-cx-activity-7516022738088640513-BHiE  li>ol]:list-[lower-alpha] [&_ol>li>ol>li>ol]:list-[lower-roman] [&_ol>li>ol>li>ol>li>ol]:list-[list-decimal] [&_[data-user]]:text-primary [&_:is(pre)]:overflow-auto [&_:is(table)]:w-full [&_:is(table,th,td)]:border [&_:is(table,th,td)]:border-collapse [&_:is(table,th,td)]:border-gray-300 [&_:is(table,th,td)]:p-2 [&_:is(strong,h1,h2,h3,h4,h5,h6)]:font-semibold [&_:is(h1)]:text-2xl [&_:is(h2)]:text-lg [&_:is(h3)]:text-md [&_h1:not(:first-child)]:mt-8 [&_h1:not(:last-child)]:mb-6 [&_h2:not(:first-child)]:mt-6 [&_h2:not(:last-child)]:mb-4 [&_h3:not(:first-child)]:mt-4 [&_pre]:bg-palette-gray-200 [&_pre>code]:bg-transparent [&_pre>code]:px-0 [&_pre>code]:py-0 [&_pre]:px-[6px] [&_pre]:py-[2px] [&_pre]:m-0 [&_pre]:rounded-[4px] [&_code]:bg-palette-gray-200 [&_code]:px-[6px] [&_code]:py-[2px] [&_code]:m-0 [&_code]:rounded-[4px] [&_blockquote]:m-0 [&_blockquote]:px-[16px] [&_blockquote]:py-0 [&_blockquote]:text-subtle [&_blockquote]:border-l-[4px] [&_blockquote]:border-palette-gray-200 overflow-x-auto [&_ol]:pl-5 [&_li]:my-2 [&_:is(p,ul,ol):not(:first-child)]:mt-3 [&_:is(p,ul,ol):not(:last-child)]:mb-3" data-testid="render-markdown">   Summary & Overview The discussion examined a gradual shift from FTE pricing to outcome-based BPO relationships, including incentives and prerequisites for adoption. Hybrid Transition Victor argued that pricing and performance measurement can evolve separately: companies can keep FTE contracts while aligning KPIs and incentives to business outcomes. Buyers and BPOs need to agree on the company's actual objectives; excessive or conflicting operational KPIs can obscure results and limit BPO ownership. Incentives and Readiness Bonuses tied to outcomes such as efficiency, first-contact resolution, revenue, or reduced churn can reward BPOs for improvements and support AI adoption. Transaction pricing is most viable with reliable volume forecasts, handle-time data, and contractual volume protections. How can companies without these prerequisites create aligned incentives while retaining FTE pricing?

This week, the CX Files turns the tables on co-host Peter Ryan. Ryan Strategic Advisory has just celebrated its tenth anniversary, so Mark Hillary interviews Peter about what he has learned from a decade of advising BPOs, enterprise buyers, governments, and CX leaders around the world. Peter looks back at how the industry has changed since 2016 — from the growth of remote and hybrid work to automation, AI, employee experience, and the changing ways companies discover and select CX partners. He also explores the evolution of global delivery locations, including the continued strength of India, the Philippines, South Africa, Egypt, and Mexico, alongside the emergence of markets such as Colombia, Serbia, Kenya, Rwanda, and Ghana. The conversation also tackles one of the biggest challenges facing CX today: separating genuine structural change from industry hype. Peter reflects on earlier predictions around IVR, RPA, remote work, and now AI, arguing that technology continues to transform the industry — but the human element remains central. Finally, Peter shares some of the lessons he has learned from running an independent advisory business for ten years: the importance of visibility, relationships, investment, resilience, and being present in an industry that is still built around conversations, handshakes, and personal connections. https://www.linkedin.com/in/peter-ryan-montreal/ https://ryanadvisory.com/ https://ryanadvisory.com/2026/10/06/10-learnings-from-10-years-of-ryan-strategic-advisory/

In episode 433 of the CX Files, Mark Hillary talks to Victor Botto, Vice President for Business Development for Sub-Saharan Africa at TP, about why Kenya deserves far more attention as a global CX and BPO location. Victor explains why Kenya's opportunity goes well beyond lower-cost customer service. They discuss the country's highly educated workforce, deep experience in fintech and tourism, its growing technology ecosystem, and the importance of an employee-first culture in building better customer experiences. The conversation also explores the bigger African opportunity. Could establishing CX operations in Kenya give global companies not only a new delivery location, but also valuable experience and insight into one of the world's fastest-growing consumer markets? Topics include: Kenya as an alternative global BPO hub, fintech and M-Pesa, tourism and hospitality expertise, the "Silicon Savannah" technology ecosystem, employee experience, talent development, and Africa's future consumer growth. ------ https://www.linkedin.com/in/victorbotto/ https://www.tp.com/ https://theservicecontinent.substack.com/ ------ li>ol]:list-[lower-alpha] [&_ol>li>ol>li>ol]:list-[lower-roman] [&_ol>li>ol>li>ol>li>ol]:list-[list-decimal] [&_[data-user]]:text-primary [&_:is(pre)]:overflow-auto [&_:is(table)]:w-full [&_:is(table,th,td)]:border [&_:is(table,th,td)]:border-collapse [&_:is(table,th,td)]:border-gray-300 [&_:is(table,th,td)]:p-2 [&_:is(strong,h1,h2,h3,h4,h5,h6)]:font-semibold [&_:is(h1)]:text-2xl [&_:is(h2)]:text-lg [&_:is(h3)]:text-md [&_h1:not(:first-child)]:mt-8 [&_h1:not(:last-child)]:mb-6 [&_h2:not(:first-child)]:mt-6 [&_h2:not(:last-child)]:mb-4 [&_h3:not(:first-child)]:mt-4 [&_pre]:bg-palette-gray-200 [&_pre>code]:bg-transparent [&_pre>code]:px-0 [&_pre>code]:py-0 [&_pre]:px-[6px] [&_pre]:py-[2px] [&_pre]:m-0 [&_pre]:rounded-[4px] [&_code]:bg-palette-gray-200 [&_code]:px-[6px] [&_code]:py-[2px] [&_code]:m-0 [&_code]:rounded-[4px] [&_blockquote]:m-0 [&_blockquote]:px-[16px] [&_blockquote]:py-0 [&_blockquote]:text-subtle [&_blockquote]:border-l-[4px] [&_blockquote]:border-palette-gray-200 overflow-x-auto [&_ol]:pl-5 [&_li]:my-2 [&_:is(p,ul,ol):not(:first-child)]:mt-3 [&_:is(p,ul,ol):not(:last-child)]:mb-3" data-testid="render-markdown"> Overview / Summary Kenya was presented as a high-value CX and BPO destination whose advantages extend beyond labor cost. Strategic Position Victor described Kenya as a diversification option for companies facing saturation, rising costs, attrition, and talent competition in established hubs. Kenya offers a GMT+3 time zone, C1 English proficiency, cultural familiarity with Western markets, and a BPO career path viewed as desirable by graduates. Sector Expertise Digital experience with M-Pesa supports fintech and digital-wallet service operations through lived understanding of payment issues. Tourism and hospitality experience supports empathetic, flexible customer service for airlines and travel companies. Nairobi's technology ecosystem includes engineering, cloud, automation, AI data operations, fintech, and software development capabilities. li>ol]:list-[lower-alpha] [&_ol>li>ol>li>ol]:list-[lower-roman] [&_ol>li>ol>li>ol>li>ol]:list-[list-decimal] [&_[data-user]]:text-primary [&_:is(pre)]:overflow-auto [&_:is(table)]:w-full [&_:is(table,th,td)]:border [&_:is(table,th,td)]:border-collapse [&_:is(table,th,td)]:border-gray-300 [&_:is(table,th,td)]:p-2 [&_:is(strong,h1,h2,h3,h4,h5,h6)]:font-semibold [&_:is(h1)]:text-2xl [&_:is(h2)]:text-lg [&_:is(h3)]:text-md [&_h1:not(:first-child)]:mt-8 [&_h1:not(:last-child)]:mb-6 [&_h2:not(:first-child)]:mt-6 [&_h2:not(:last-child)]:mb-4 [&_h3:not(:first-child)]:mt-4 [&_pre]:bg-palette-gray-200 [&_pre>code]:bg-transparent [&_pre>code]:px-0 [&_pre>code]:py-0 [&_pre]:px-[6px] [&_pre]:py-[2px] [&_pre]:m-0 [&_pre]:rounded-[4px] [&_code]:bg-palette-gray-200 [&_code]:px-[6px] [&_code]:py-[2px] [&_code]:m-0 [&_code]:rounded-[4px] [&_blockquote]:m-0 [&_blockquote]:px-[16px] [&_blockquote]:py-0 [&_blockquote]:text-subtle [&_blockquote]:border-l-[4px] [&_blockquote]:border-palette-gray-200 overflow-x-auto [&_ol]:pl-5 [&_li]:my-2 [&_:is(p,ul,ol):not(:first-child)]:mt-3 [&_:is(p,ul,ol):not(:last-child)]:mb-3" data-testid="render-markdown"> Open Questions How quickly can Kenya build market awareness, delivery capacity, specialized accreditation, and infrastructure to compete with mature hubs? Can companies use Kenyan operations as a platform for broader growth in African consumer markets through the Africa Continental Free Trade Area?

Brian Riback is the CMSWire 2025 Contributor of the Year. Brian is a strategic leader with over 20 years of experience as a CRM and retention specialist. He ias based in New Jersey, USA. In June 2026, Brian published a detailed article exploring how brands can build trust in the era of AI discoverability. The article was titled "How CMOs Build Brand Trust Across AI Search, Agents and Answer Engines." In this conversation with Mark Hillary, Brian describes his ideas around how to operationalise trust - a process he calls TrustOps after a paper by Andrew Frank from Gartner. --- For over two decades CMSWire, produced by Simpler Media Group, has been the world's leading community of customer experience professionals. Today the CMSWire community consists of over 5 million influential customer experience, customer service and digital experience leaders, the majority of whom are based in North America and employed by medium to large organizations. --- https://www.linkedin.com/in/brianriback/ https://www.cmswire.com/ https://www.cmswire.com/author/brian-riback/ https://www.cmswire.com/digital-marketing/how-cmos-build-brand-trust-across-ai-search-agents-and-answer-engines/ https://www.gartner.com/en/experts/andrew-frank   Summary: li>ol]:list-[lower-alpha] [&_ol>li>ol>li>ol]:list-[lower-roman] [&_ol>li>ol>li>ol>li>ol]:list-[list-decimal] [&_[data-user]]:text-primary [&_:is(pre)]:overflow-auto [&_:is(table)]:w-full [&_:is(table,th,td)]:border [&_:is(table,th,td)]:border-collapse [&_:is(table,th,td)]:border-gray-300 [&_:is(table,th,td)]:p-2 [&_:is(strong,h1,h2,h3,h4,h5,h6)]:font-semibold [&_:is(h1)]:text-2xl [&_:is(h2)]:text-lg [&_:is(h3)]:text-md [&_h1:not(:first-child)]:mt-8 [&_h1:not(:last-child)]:mb-6 [&_h2:not(:first-child)]:mt-6 [&_h2:not(:last-child)]:mb-4 [&_h3:not(:first-child)]:mt-4 [&_pre]:bg-palette-gray-200 [&_pre>code]:bg-transparent [&_pre>code]:px-0 [&_pre>code]:py-0 [&_pre]:px-[6px] [&_pre]:py-[2px] [&_pre]:m-0 [&_pre]:rounded-[4px] [&_code]:bg-palette-gray-200 [&_code]:px-[6px] [&_code]:py-[2px] [&_code]:m-0 [&_code]:rounded-[4px] [&_blockquote]:m-0 [&_blockquote]:px-[16px] [&_blockquote]:py-0 [&_blockquote]:text-subtle [&_blockquote]:border-l-[4px] [&_blockquote]:border-palette-gray-200 overflow-x-auto [&_ol]:pl-5 [&_li]:my-2 [&_:is(p,ul,ol):not(:first-child)]:mt-3 [&_:is(p,ul,ol):not(:last-child)]:mb-3" data-testid="render-markdown"> Outline AI Discoverability and Trust AI tools increasingly influence how buyers discover and evaluate B2B providers. Visibility alone is insufficient; companies must control the credibility and context surrounding their brand. Content and Websites Content should identify its author, publication timing, sources, and relevant questions. Websites should validate AI-generated recommendations with use cases, case studies, testimonials, trust indicators, and accessible human support. AI-generated content can assist production, but authority depends on original expertise and evidence rather than volume. Trust Operations A proposed trust-operations function would coordinate marketing, communications, PR, legal, IT, and cybersecurity. The group would create playbooks and manage risks affecting brand representation across AI systems. Measurement and Alignment Brian recommended emphasizing qualified leads, pipeline movement, conversion, and nurturing rather than impressions or unmeasurable awareness. Marketing and sales should share revenue accountability while maintaining clearly defined roles. Current Work Brian is developing Version Lab, a tool for creating audience-specific versions of ads and emails, and continuing his writing for CMSWire.

In this episode of the CX Files, Mark Hillary and Peter Ryan look at the changing European nearshore landscape before Peter talks to Jeton Aliu, Founder and CEO of Olymp BPO in Pristina, Kosovo. Jeton explains why Kosovo is becoming an increasingly important CX and BPO delivery location. He discusses the rapid growth of the local outsourcing industry, the availability of a young and multilingual workforce, and Kosovo's particular strength in languages including German and English. The conversation also explores the growth of delivery beyond Pristina, government support for the industry, and the biggest challenge still facing Kosovo: building greater international awareness and trust as a serious European outsourcing destination. Mark and Peter also discuss how the traditional European nearshore model is changing, as countries once viewed primarily as outsourcing locations increasingly become consumer markets themselves — creating a much more complex European CX delivery landscape. https://www.linkedin.com/in/jetonaliu8/ http://olympbpo.com/ https://kiesa.rks-gov.net/   Summary: li>ol]:list-[lower-alpha] [&_ol>li>ol>li>ol]:list-[lower-roman] [&_ol>li>ol>li>ol>li>ol]:list-[list-decimal] [&_[data-user]]:text-primary [&_:is(pre)]:overflow-auto [&_:is(table)]:w-full [&_:is(table,th,td)]:border [&_:is(table,th,td)]:border-collapse [&_:is(table,th,td)]:border-gray-300 [&_:is(table,th,td)]:p-2 [&_:is(strong,h1,h2,h3,h4,h5,h6)]:font-semibold [&_:is(h1)]:text-2xl [&_:is(h2)]:text-lg [&_:is(h3)]:text-md [&_h1:not(:first-child)]:mt-8 [&_h1:not(:last-child)]:mb-6 [&_h2:not(:first-child)]:mt-6 [&_h2:not(:last-child)]:mb-4 [&_h3:not(:first-child)]:mt-4 [&_pre]:bg-palette-gray-200 [&_pre>code]:bg-transparent [&_pre>code]:px-0 [&_pre>code]:py-0 [&_pre]:px-[6px] [&_pre]:py-[2px] [&_pre]:m-0 [&_pre]:rounded-[4px] [&_code]:bg-palette-gray-200 [&_code]:px-[6px] [&_code]:py-[2px] [&_code]:m-0 [&_code]:rounded-[4px] [&_blockquote]:m-0 [&_blockquote]:px-[16px] [&_blockquote]:py-0 [&_blockquote]:text-subtle [&_blockquote]:border-l-[4px] [&_blockquote]:border-palette-gray-200 overflow-x-auto [&_ol]:pl-5 [&_li]:my-2 [&_:is(p,ul,ol):not(:first-child)]:mt-3 [&_:is(p,ul,ol):not(:last-child)]:mb-3" data-testid="render-markdown"> Kosovo was presented as a growing, multilingual European nearshore BPO destination with strong potential but limited global awareness. Industry Growth The BPO sector has expanded significantly since the early 2010s, with approximately 20,000 professionals across more than 120 companies. BPO and ITO reportedly generated more than $2.3 billion in 2025 and 2026, becoming a major contributor to economic growth and youth employment. Pristina is the primary hub, while Prizren, Peja, Ferizaj, and Gjilan have growing delivery centers. Competitive Advantages Kosovo offers English, German, French, Italian, Spanish, Dutch, Norwegian, Danish, and other language capabilities. German and English are especially competitive, supported by diaspora connections and multilingual education beginning in childhood. The country is described as safe, accessible, cost-competitive, and supported by government grants for newly formed BPOs. Growth Challenges How can Kosovo increase international market awareness and build trust with prospective buyers? Yeton identified recognition and education about Kosovo's BPO capabilities as the main challenges to industry maturation. KIESA, the Kosovo Investment and Enterprise Support Agency, was identified as a source of additional information.

In this episode of CX Files, Mark Hillary talks to Matt Fry, SVP for AI, CX and Digital Transformation at eClerx and publisher of The CX Marketplace, about why culture cannot simply be outsourced. Inspired by Matt's Substack article Culture Cannot Be Outsourced, the conversation explores why successful CX partnerships require shared responsibility between clients and BPO providers. They discuss culture during the RFP process, employee engagement and attrition, the importance of client involvement, and how relationships can move beyond SLAs and penalties toward shared ownership of the customer experience. Matt also explains why culture may be even more important as AI, automation and agentic technologies reshape customer service. ----- Culture Cannot Be Outsourced https://thecxmarketplace.substack.com/p/culture-cannot-be-outsourced  The CX Marketplace https://thecxmarketplace.substack.com/    https://eclerx.com/ https://www.linkedin.com/in/matthewefry/ Summary: Matt explains why creating a successful BPO relationship requires a shared 50-50 responsibility for culture between the client and the service provider. Cultural Partnership Matt Fry argues that corporate culture in contact centers cannot be outsourced and must be a collaborative effort between the BPO and the client. While it is common to assume the BPO is solely responsible for maintaining a positive environment, Matt suggests that clients must actively participate to ensure deep engagement. Clients should focus on transferring "why" something matters rather than just transferring technical processes or product knowledge. Effective integration involves leadership from both sides engaging with the operational environment to build mutual purpose. A lack of client engagement can lead to employees feeling like anonymous resources, especially as AI and automation make work more transactional. Strategic Procurement Matt notes that traditional RFP processes often fail to capture cultural compatibility because they focus on static values rather than dynamic behaviors. To find true partners instead of transactional vendors, companies must reframe their selection criteria. Questions should focus on how organizations will solve problems together when performance falls short. The goal is to assess whether both parties are willing to modify their operating models to support long-term collaboration after the contract is signed. Governance Evolution Transitioning from a vendor-client relationship to a partnership requires shifting governance away from pure metric monitoring toward shared outcomes. Matt highlights that relying solely on SLAs, targets, and penalties keeps a relationship stuck in a transactional state. Meetings should move beyond discussing missed targets or service credits to address customer insights and avoidable demand. Trust is built incrementally when a supplier identifies risks early and brings innovative solutions rather than just focusing on the scorecard. How can cost-sensitive sectors balance the expense of cultural integration with the high costs of attrition caused by poor culture?

Peter Ryan talks to Andrew Kokes, Chief Marketing Advisor at Pivot AI Global, about how AI is fundamentally changing B2B marketing and sales. As buyers increasingly use ChatGPT, Gemini, Claude and other AI platforms to research suppliers and build shortlists, traditional search engine visibility is no longer enough. Andrew explains why companies now need to think about AI discoverability — ensuring that answer engines understand who they are, what they do, and why they should be recommended. The conversation explores why clear positioning and a well-defined niche matter more than ever, how websites need to evolve from digital brochures into machine-readable knowledge bases, and why credible third-party articles, analyst coverage and customer reviews can influence whether AI recommends a business. For CX and BPO providers, especially smaller and emerging companies, the message is simple: doing great work is no longer enough. You also need to make sure the machines know about it. https://www.linkedin.com/in/andrewkokes/ https://www.pivotaiglobal.com/   Mark Hillary's book "If AI Can't See You, You Don't Exist" https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0H4Q9VMPP   Summary: Mark Hillary and Peter Ryan discuss the evolving landscape of customer experience (CX) and business process outsourcing (BPO) with Andrew Kokes, Chief Marketing Advisor for Pivot AI Global. They explore the concept of discoverability, emphasizing the shift from traditional Google searches to AI-driven answer engines like ChatGPT and Gemini. Kokes highlights the importance of clear positioning, consistent messaging, and third-party validation for smaller BPOs to remain relevant. He also stresses the need for a modern digital strategy that caters to both AI and human audiences, including maintaining up-to-date, accessible content. The conversation underscores the necessity for a fundamental rethink in marketing strategies to adapt to AI's impact on search and discovery.

CX Files will return on September 3, 2026. Enjoy the summer! Mark & Peter

LinkedIn Has Lost the Plot — Can the CX Community Fix It? LinkedIn was once the essential networking platform for business professionals, but today it can feel overwhelmed by sponsored posts, algorithmic recommendations, automated sales messages and bland AI-generated content. Even genuine attempts to connect and start conversations are increasingly met with silence or suspicion. Peter Ryan talks to Simma Kularatna, Head of New Business at Interact Contact Centres, about why LinkedIn has become so difficult to navigate and whether it can still deliver value for the CX community. Drawing on her experience of spending several hours each day using the platform, Simma explores how professionals can rebuild trust, create more authentic content and turn passive connections into meaningful business relationships. https://www.linkedin.com/in/skularatna/ https://interactcc.com/ Summary: Mark Hillary and Peter Ryan discuss the relevance and challenges of LinkedIn for the CX community. They reflect on the platform's evolution, noting an increase in AI-generated content and sponsored posts, which dilutes the quality of engagement. Simma Kularatna, from Interact Contact Centres, joins to discuss the decline in genuine connections and relationships on LinkedIn. She emphasizes the need to rebuild trust and engage authentically, suggesting proactive commenting and creating a dedicated CX leaders page. They agree on the importance of LinkedIn for professional networking and advocate for a return to its original purpose of building meaningful business relationships.

Jim Farnsworth is Founder and CEO of HiOctayne. He is based in Denver, Colorado. Jim has a long history as a senior leader within and advisor to multiple BPOs and CX experts. He is therefore well placed to comment on why the publicly traded BPOs have seen their share price collapse - and what can these companies do to recover? Publicly traded BPO and CX companies have faced a dramatic collapse in investor confidence over the past few years. Mark Hillary and Peter Ryan open this episode by exploring how AI disruption, falling valuations, short sellers, and weak industry storytelling have allowed analysts and investors to define the future of the sector. Peter then speaks with Jim Farnsworth, founder and CEO of HiOctayne, about why the market increasingly views traditional BPO companies as vulnerable labor-arbitrage businesses rather than growth companies. Jim argues that BPOs need to stop positioning themselves as technology companies and instead demonstrate how they can deliver customer outcomes through a blend of AI, automation, analytics, and human expertise. The conversation also explores whether privately owned firms have an advantage over publicly traded businesses because they can plan beyond the pressure of quarterly results. https://www.linkedin.com/in/jifarnsworth/ https://www.linkedin.com/company/hioctayne/ Summary: Mark Hillary and Peter Ryan discuss the challenges faced by publicly traded BPOs, noting significant losses and declining share prices over the past few years. They highlight the impact of AI on the industry, with companies like Klarna announcing major workforce reductions, leading to a negative narrative. Jim Farnsworth, a BPO industry expert, emphasizes the need for BPOs to redefine themselves as hybrid entities combining human and AI capabilities. He suggests that private equity-owned BPOs may have an advantage due to less pressure from quarterly market expectations and more strategic flexibility. The conversation underscores the importance of storytelling and strategic positioning in the evolving CX landscape.

If AI Can't See You, Buyers Won't Either: The New Rules of B2B Sales In this special bonus episode of CX Files, Peter Ryan turns the microphone on his co-host Mark Hillary to discuss Mark's latest book, If AI Can't See You, You Don't Exist: How B2B Sales Changed Forever. Mark explains how AI platforms such as ChatGPT, Gemini, and Claude are transforming the earliest stages of the buying journey. Potential clients are now using AI to define their problems, compare solutions, investigate suppliers, and create shortlists—often before a salesperson knows that an opportunity exists. The central message is that content can no longer be treated as a minor marketing activity. Original articles, interviews, podcasts, case studies, and executive insights have become part of a company's sales infrastructure: the public evidence AI systems use when deciding which businesses to recommend. Mark and Peter also explore why generic, automatically generated content is unlikely to build authority, why valuable material must be publicly accessible rather than hidden behind paywalls, and why podcasts and videos should be supported by transcripts that AI platforms can read. Mark shares a striking example of ChatGPT recommending an earlier CX Files interview when asked about the impact of AI on contact centres—demonstrating how credible expert conversations can directly influence AI-generated answers. The episode offers a practical introduction to the book's central warning: companies that fail to make their genuine expertise visible may disappear from the buyer's consideration before the formal sales process has even begun. --- https://www.linkedin.com/in/markhillary/ https://www.carnabysp.com/ https://www.amazon.com/Cant-See-You-Dont-Exist-ebook/dp/B0H4M7F44P --- Send Mark Hillary a direct message on LinkedIn with your email address if you want to receive a free PDF copy of the book - or feel free to go and order a copy via Amazon if you prefer a "real" book. --- Summary: Peter Ryan and Mark Hillary discuss Mark's new book, "If AI Can't See You, You Don't Exist," which explores the transformative impact of AI on sales and marketing, particularly in BPOs. Mark highlights how AI tools like ChatGPT, Gemini, and Claude are changing client behavior, emphasizing the need for high-quality content to engage AI systems. Peter shares examples of using AI for event planning and content accessibility. They stress the importance of visibility in AI-driven marketing and offer listeners a free PDF of Mark's book upon request. The conversation underscores the evolving landscape of sales and marketing strategies influenced by AI.

Jessica Pleffken is the founder and CEO of Pleffken & Marvulle Marketing. Ana Marvulle is co-founder and managing partner. Jessica and Ana both have a long history working inside CX and BPO companies and now their specialist marketing company advises companies working in the CX environment. Both Jessica and Ana are based in São Paulo, Brazil. Jessica and Ana explain why the traditional separation between marketing and sales no longer works. BPO buyers now conduct extensive research before contacting a provider, using LinkedIn, client referrals and AI platforms such as ChatGPT, Claude and Perplexity to compare companies and build shortlists. Marketing must therefore do more than generate leads: it must establish trust, demonstrate operational capability and ensure that the company presents a clear, consistent and credible story across its website, content, sales materials and public reputation. The conversation explores how sales, marketing and operations can work as a single growth system with shared priorities and metrics. Jessica and Ana also argue that BPO companies need stronger client advocacy, genuine case studies and evidence of results rather than generic claims. Their final advice is simple: write for customers rather than industry peers, avoid unnecessary jargon and explain clearly what the company actually does. In an AI-driven buying environment, the providers that communicate with the greatest clarity and credibility will be the easiest to discover - and the easiest to trust. https://www.linkedin.com/in/jessicapleffken/ https://www.linkedin.com/in/ana-carvalhom/ https://www.linkedin.com/company/pleffken-marvulle-marketing-bpo https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/one-outsources-company-theyve-never-heard-jessica-pleffken-hosti-1na9f/ WhatsApp Summary: Mark Hillary and Peter Ryan discuss the evolving landscape of customer experience (CX) and marketing in the business process outsourcing (BPO) industry. They highlight the importance of integrating marketing and sales due to changes in client behavior, particularly the increased use of AI for shortlisting BPOs. Jessica Pleffken and Anna Marvulle from P&M Marketing in São Paulo emphasize the need for a unified growth system, shared metrics, and simple, clear communication to build trust and credibility. They stress the importance of aligning marketing and sales strategies, understanding client needs, and maintaining consistent messaging to enhance brand reputation and client acquisition.

Peter Ryan speaks with Tugs Smith and Adrian Smith, co-founders of ATAC Global CX in Oshawa, Ontario, about the launch of the Certified Remote Service Agent certification. The discussion explores why remote contact center work now needs a trusted global standard, how agents can prove they are ready to handle real customer interactions from home, and why resumes and interviews are no longer enough. Tugs and Adrian explain how the CRSA combines written assessment, live call simulation, and blockchain verification to create a portable credential for work-from-home CX professionals. They also discuss how certification can help agents stand out, reduce hiring risk for employers, and give BPOs a stronger signal of quality when competing for new business. https://www.linkedin.com/in/tugssmith/ https://www.linkedin.com/in/adriansmith-atac/ https://atacglobalcx.com/ Summary: Mark Hillary and Peter Ryan discuss the CRSA (Certified Remote Service Agent) program developed by Tugs and Adrian Smith of ATAC, a work-from-home company in Canada. The CRSA is a blockchain-verified accreditation for remote customer service agents, ensuring they can handle complex interactions effectively. The program includes a written assessment and a live voice call simulation, evaluating agents on professionalism, communication, CX operations, technology, health and safety, and compliance. The dynamic and randomized nature of the evaluation ensures agents are tested on their real-time problem-solving skills. The CRSA aims to improve service standards and reduce hiring risks, benefiting both businesses and agents.

Your contact center may be one of the most valuable targets in the enterprise supply chain. Peter Ryan speaks with Muhammad Yahya Patel, Cybersecurity Advisor at Huntress, about why cybersecurity has become a critical issue for CX leaders, contact centers, and BPO providers. He is based in Blackburn in the UK. Muhammad Yahya Patel explains why CX operations are attractive targets for cybercriminals, how outsourcers can become vulnerable points in the enterprise supply chain, and why customer data makes these environments so valuable to attackers. The conversation explores identity as the new security perimeter, the risks of underinvestment, the difference between compliance and genuine cyber resilience, and why CX organizations need proactive partners rather than just more tools. This episode is a timely reminder that cybersecurity is no longer just an IT concern. It is now central to customer trust, operational resilience, and the future of CX delivery. https://www.linkedin.com/in/mypi/ https://www.huntress.com/ Summary: Mark Hillary and Peter Ryan discuss the importance of cybersecurity in CX delivery, highlighting the vulnerabilities of CX operations within the supply chain. They reference a report by IBM, noting the average cost of a cyber attack cleanup is $5 million, which can be catastrophic for small and medium-sized businesses. Muhammad Yahya Patel from Huntress Labs emphasizes the need for proactive cybersecurity measures, advocating for partnerships that provide tailored solutions rather than just tool purchases. Patel also stresses the importance of continuous cyber resilience and compliance with evolving regulations. The conversation underscores the critical role of cybersecurity in maintaining business continuity and reputation.