Advertise on podcast: Stories from the Field: Mental Health and the Outdoors

How did wilderness therapy become outdoor behavioral healthcare—and who made that shift possible? In this re-released and historically significant episode Will sits down with Dr. Madolyn Liebing, widely considered the first licensed mental health professional to work in a primitive skills wilderness therapy program. As a co-founder of Aspen Achievement Academy in 1988, Dr. Liebing helped transform early outdoor programs from survival-based experiences into clinically grounded treatment—introducing psychological assessments, treatment planning, and family systems work into the wilderness. In this powerful conversation, Dr. Liebing shares her journey from high school counselor to trailblazing psychologist, her role in shaping Utah's first wilderness therapy licensing standards, and her perspective on how the field has evolved over decades. She reflects on the integration of trauma work, attachment theory, and family therapy in outdoor settings at Legacy Outdoor Adventures—and why the combination of clinical sophistication and immersive nature experiences remains so effective today. For anyone interested in the history, ethics, and future of wilderness therapy, this episode is essential listening. This podcast is supported by White Mountain Adventure Institute (wmai.org), offering adventure inspired retreats and coaching for men and facilitated by Will White.    

Who really built wilderness therapy—and how did a lawyer with no formal clinical training help shape one of the most influential models in outdoor mental health treatment? In this episode Will revisits a powerful 2019 interview with L. Jay Mitchell, founder of SUWS (School of Urban and Wilderness Survival). Mitchell shares his unlikely path—from a difficult adolescence and early inspiration from Kurt Hahn, to law school, military service as a JAG attorney, and ultimately creating one of the first wilderness therapy programs in the United States. This episode explores the early roots of wilderness therapy, including its connections to Outward Bound, anthropology, and experiential learning long before the field became clinically driven. Mitchell offers candid and at times provocative reflections on what actually creates change in young people—challenging traditional mental health treatment models and questioning the role of clinicians in wilderness therapy's evolution. He recounts the founding of SUWS in the early 1980s, the program's early success without licensed therapists, and the deeper elements that made it effective: relationships, environment, challenge, and purpose. The conversation also traces his later innovations, including Aldredge Academy's rite-of-passage model and his concerns about the future of the industry as it becomes more clinical and profit-driven. For anyone interested in the history of wilderness therapy, outdoor behavioral healthcare, and alternative approaches to mental health treatment, this episode offers a rare and essential perspective from one of the field's original pioneers. This podcast is supported by White Mountain Adventure Institute (wmai.org), offering adventure inspired retreats and coaching for men and facilitated by Will White.

Wilderness therapy didn't start with therapists—it evolved with the help of an ex-con who found his heart of service to others in recovery. In this episode Will shares the powerful story of Larry Wells—an early pioneer whose lived experience shaped the foundations of early wilderness therapy programs. From his teenage years in jail to his exposure to the outdoors in a federal prison camp, Larry's journey reveals how connection, purpose, and challenge became the roots of a new approach to helping struggling young people through the outdoors. Through the creation of Expedition Outreach in the 1970's,  his work with VisionQuest, SUWS, and others, and then later the founding of Wilderness Quest, Larry helped define the early models of wilderness therapy—often learning through trial and error in real time. This episode explores the evolution of his philosophy from pushing people to their limits toward building connection, safety, and recovery through experiential work in the outdoors. For those in the field—and anyone on a path of recovery—this is a story about how wilderness therapy evolved, what it got right, what it got wrong, and what still matters most.  Mentioned in this episode:  2019 interview on this podcast with Larry Wells's Daughter- Angela Wells Starnes Link to doctoral dissertation with Larry Wells Interview Stories from the Elders: Chronicles and Narratives from the Early Years of Wilderness Therapy This podcast is supported by White Mountain Adventure Institute (wmai.org), offering adventure inspired retreats for men and facilitated by Will White.

How did wilderness therapy survive the crises of the early 1990s — and why did some of its earliest leaders continue to believe in the work even as the field faced national criticism? In this episode of Stories from the Field we hear a rare 2008 interview with wilderness therapy pioneer Larry Dean Olsen and his former student and colleague Ezekiel Sanchez. They reflect on Larry's survival courses at Brigham Young University in the late 1960s, where struggling students often returned from wilderness expeditions with new confidence and direction — experiences that helped lead to the founding of the Anasazi Foundation, one of the longest continuously operating wilderness therapy programs in the United States. The conversation also explores the rapid growth of wilderness programs in the 1980s and many of them springing from former students of BYU's survival course, including the development of Challenger Foundation and SUWS, and the intense scrutiny that followed several highly publicized deaths in the early 1990s. Larry speaks candidly about defending the field during that time, arguing that while some programs failed, the core idea — that challenge, responsibility, and time in the natural world can help young people change — remained sound. This episode offers a rare firsthand account from two of the elders of the field. To read the dissertation mentioned in the episode it is available on line- Stories from the Elders: Chronicles and Narratives from the Early Years of Wilderness Therapy I want to thank the Olsen family, Ezekiel Sanchez and Anasazi for letting me share these stories over the years. This podcast is supported by White Mountain Adventure Institute (wmai.org), offering adventure inspired retreats for men and facilitated by Will White.  

How and why did wilderness therapy ignite in the American West? In this episode of Stories from the Field Will explores the life and influence of Larry Dean Olsen, one of the key figures behind the primitive skills model used in many wilderness therapy programs. Through his work at Brigham Young University, including the well-known BYU 480 survival course, Olsen showed that powerful personal change could happen when modern comforts were removed and people were challenged to depend on themselves, the group, and the natural world. This episode looks at Olsen's book Outdoor Survival Skills, his work as a consultant on the film Jeremiah Johnson, his role in the development of early wilderness programs like SUWS, and his co-founding of the Anasazi Foundation and how his philosophy helped shape modern outdoor behavioral healthcare. Often called the father of primitive survival education, Olsen believed change comes through experience, simplicity, and responsibility. This is Part 1 of a two-part series. In the next episode, Will shares a rare interview with Larry Dean Olsen and the other co-founder of Anasazi Foundation, Ezekiel Sanchez. This podcast is supported by White Mountain Adventure Institute (wmai.org), offering adventure inspired retreats for men and facilitated by Will White. To read more about Larry Dean Olsen and the early years of wilderness therapy read Will's doctoral dissertation: Stories from the Elders: Chronicles and Narratives from the Early Years of Wilderness Therapy To listen to an episode mentioned in this podcast how SUWS was founded.  

Outward Bound is not about therapy. It began during World War II as a response to a fear that young sailors were not resilient enough to survive the sinking of their ships. Founded to build endurance, discipline, and leadership under extreme adversity, Outward Bound introduced the expeditionary model — challenge, crew, service, and solo — long before those elements became staples of wilderness therapy programs. In this episode of Stories from the Field, Will traces the history of Outward Bound from Kurt Hahn's philosophy and exile from Nazi Germany to the rise of Outward Bound USA and its lasting influence on modern wilderness therapy. Along the way, we explore early research with adjudicated youth, partnerships with mental health institutions, and the professionalization of outdoor leadership through figures like Paul Petzoldt and the founding of NOLS. If you want to understand the origins of wilderness therapy and outdoor behavioral healthcare, you must understand Outward Bound. This podcast is supported by White Mountain Adventure Institute (wmai.org), offering adventure inspired retreats for men and facilitated by Will White.    

What happened to the hundreds of therapeutic camps that once shaped mental health treatment for young people in the outdoors? Long before the term "wilderness therapy" was coined, therapeutic camps were considered cutting-edge mental health treatment for young people. Backed by major hospitals, staffed by psychiatrists and social workers, and rooted in reform movements of the early 20th century, these camps believed nature, group living, and responsibility could reshape a young life. In this episode, Will traces the evolution of therapeutic camps—from Camp Ramapo and Camp Wediko's clinically sophisticated summer programs to the long-term wilderness model pioneered by the Dallas Salesmanship Club Camp. These programs laid the groundwork for modern outdoor behavioral healthcare long before Outward Bound or the primitive survival skills model ever existed. But over time, many therapeutic camps faded. Some evolved. Others closed quietly. And some collapsed under scandal and broken trust—most notably Anneewakee, one of the most controversial long-term therapeutic camps in American history. What can today's outdoor behavioral health programs learn from this rise and fall? This episode offers a deeply researched historical exploration of innovation, ethics, accountability, and the enduring DNA of therapeutic camps that still shapes wilderness therapy today. This podcast is supported by White Mountain Adventure Institute (wmai.org), offering adventure inspired retreats for men and facilitated by Will White.

In a moment when wilderness therapy is often framed as either a miracle or a menace, what gets lost when we stop listening for the full human story? In this special episode of Stories from the Field Will is joined by filmmakers Vince Dixon and Mark Strauss, the directors of the upcoming film Forest Through the Trees: The Truth About Wilderness Therapy. Will is also serving as a one of the producers on the project. Together, they explore what drew Vince and Mark to wilderness therapy as a subject, how their assumptions have been challenged through a year of research and interviews, and why the field cannot be understood through a single narrative shaped by headlines or popular media alone. A clear theme emerges: wilderness therapy is not a single model or idea, but a diverse and evolving field that resists simple labels of "good" or "bad." The conversation explores what it takes to tell a responsible story in a deeply polarized landscape. As directors, Vince and Mark outline their commitment to ethical, balanced storytelling—actively seeking out critical voices alongside positive outcomes, examining cost, access, safety, and history, and responding thoughtfully to the cultural impact of films like Hell Camp: Teen Nightmare. As a producer on the film, Will reflects on why this kind of nuanced storytelling matters right now: not to defend or condemn the field, but to expand understanding, foster empathy, and help listeners grasp why families turn to wilderness therapy when they feel out of options—while honoring the real complexity and controversy surrounding outdoor mental health care. To learn more about the documentary check out the website: https://www.wildernessdocumentary.com/ This podcast is supported by White Mountain Adventure Institute (wmai.org), offering adventure inspired retreats for men and facilitated by Will White.  

How do you live well, stay engaged, and protect your mental health when the future of the planet feels so uncertain? Listen to this episode of Stories from the Field where our host Will White is joined by Dr. Thomas Doherty—psychologist, ecopsychologist, and author of Surviving Climate Anxiety—for a grounded conversation about eco-anxiety as a normal, values-driven response to climate change rather than a disorder to eliminate. Thomas reframes climate anxiety as a signal of care and connection, and introduces practical ways to regulate the nervous system, make meaning, and stay psychologically resilient without denying reality. Designed for both individuals struggling with climate anxiety and mental health professionals who work with anxiety and grief, this episode explores how time outdoors can become genuinely healing, how to avoid becoming a "climate hostage," and how to move toward what Thomas calls ethical happiness—living with purpose, connection, and integrity in a rapidly changing world. Links to Dr. Thomas Doherty's book, practive page and podcast below: Surviving Climate Anxiety book: thomasdoherty.com Climate Change and Happiness podcast: https://climatechangeandhappiness.com/ Recent Book Reading: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F4UbgoO3I3M Google Scholar: https://scholar.google.com/citations?hl=en&user=92NarLYAAAAJ&view_op=list_works This podcast is supported by White Mountain Adventure Institute (wmai.org), offering adventure inspired retreats for men and facilitated by Will White.  

Wilderness therapy isn't dying. It's growing. In this milestone 300th episode of Stories from the Field, host Dr. Will White sits down with guest host Jake Weld to reflect on nearly a decade of conversations exploring wilderness therapy, outdoor behavioral healthcare, and the evolving relationship between mental health and the outdoors. Drawing from hundreds of interviews, download data, and personal experience, Will examines why episodes centered on controversy, trauma, and program closures continue to draw the most attention—and what those patterns reveal about public perception of the field. But this episode isn't an obituary. It's a reassessment. Will argues that while traditional long-term wilderness programs for adolescents have narrowed, outdoor mental health is quietly expanding through outpatient care, coaching, retreats, community-based models, and new hybrid approaches. Episode 300 offers a rare long-view perspective on how definitions, power, and practice have shifted—and why reports of wilderness therapy's demise may be missing the bigger story. This podcast is supported by White Mountain Adventure Institute (wmai.org), offering adventure inspired retreats for men and facilitated by Will White.

What do Outward Bound and many wilderness therapy programs have in common? Their shared roots trace back to a movement that believed the outdoors wasn't just a place to learn skills, but a place to shape moral character, spiritual values, and a young person's sense of purpose. In Part 2 of this series, Stories from the Field host Will White continues his historical exploration of the influence of the Boy Scouts of America on the early development of many wilderness therapy programs. Drawing on research from his doctoral dissertation, his book, and hundreds of podcast interviews, Will traces how Scouting's emphasis on outdoor living, moral formation, spiritual belief, and structured authority shaped the cultural assumptions that later informed outdoor education and wilderness therapy models. The episode also acknowledges the tensions, exclusions, and harms that emerged over time, offering listeners deeper context for where the field came from—and why it has continued to evolve. This podcast is supported by White Mountain Adventure Institute (wmai.org), offering adventure inspired retreats for men and facilitated by Will White.  

How did an early twentieth-century psychiatric institution help shape what would later become wilderness therapy? In this episode, our host Dr. Will White continues Season 26's exploration of a history of wilderness therapy by examining a little-known moment from 1901 at the New York Hospital for the Insane on Ward's Island. During a tuberculosis outbreak, hospital administrators moved psychiatric patients into tents on the hospital grounds as a public-health measure—an intervention never intended to be therapeutic. What followed surprised staff: patients living outdoors showed notable psychological and physical improvement. Drawing on historical research and overlooked accounts of early "tent therapy," this episode explores why those gains were difficult to sustain once patients returned indoors, and how institutional priorities such as efficiency, scale, and growth often overtook treatment needs. This story raises enduring questions about the environment, systems of care, and the challenge of maintaining change—questions that continue to shape wilderness therapy, outdoor mental health treatment, and institutional models of care today. This podcast is supported by White Mountain Adventure Institute (wmai.org), offering adventure inspired retreats for men and facilitated by Will White.  

Where did wilderness therapy actually begin—and why is it so hard to define? In the opening episode of Season 26 of Stories from the Field, host Dr. Will White launches a season-long exploration of a history of wilderness therapy. Drawing from decades of experience, doctoral research, and nearly 300 podcast conversations, Will reflects on why the field resists a single origin story or definition. From Boy Scouts to Outward Bound to Brigham Young University and therapeutic camping to psychology, education, and cultural movements, this episode explains why wilderness therapy's roots are complex—and why that complexity matters. The episode then traces the early foundations of wilderness therapy in the United States back to the organized camping movement of the 1800s, with an in-depth look at Camp Chocorua, a radical experiment in responsibility, work, and community. Long before wilderness therapy existed as a formal mental health practice, these early camps used outdoor living to shape character and resilience. This season-opening episode sets the historical groundwork for the conversations ahead and invites listeners to approach the field's past—and its future—with curiosity and care. This podcast is supported by White Mountain Adventure Institute (wmai.org), offering adventure inspired retreats for men and facilitated by Will White.

Does wilderness therapy create an altered state similar to psychedelic-assisted therapy? And what can both approaches teach us about trauma, embodiment, and lasting change?In this final episode of Season 25, Will sits down with Dr. Sandy Newes, a psychologist, educator, and longtime experiential practitioner whose career bridges wilderness therapy, trauma-informed care, and psychedelic-assisted psychotherapy. A 2025 recipient of the Association for Experiential Education Michael Stratton Practitioner Award, Sandy reflects on decades in the field—exploring how experience, embodiment, and nervous system regulation can create meaningful change far beyond insight alone. Together, Will and Sandy examine the surprising parallels between wilderness therapy and psychedelic-assisted therapy, including altered states, ethical use of power, choice and agency, and the importance of strong therapeutic containers. They also reflect on the evolution of wilderness therapy—what has been lost, what still matters, and why outdoor-based mental health treatment remains essential despite controversy and program closures. This conversation serves as a powerful bridge into Season 26 of Stories from the Field: Mental Health and the Outdoors, which will explore the complex history, ethics, and future of outdoor behavioral healthcare. To connect with Dr. Newes and hear her podcast- check out her website- https://livingmedicineinstitute.com/about/ This podcast is supported by White Mountain Adventure Institute (wmai.org), offering adventure inspired retreats for men and facilitated by Will White.  

What do decades of practice in wilderness therapy reveal about ethics, transport, and change? In this episode, Will talks with Paula Leslie—former Aspen Achievement Academy field guide, therapist, accreditation reviewer, and longtime educational consultant—for a rare and reflective conversation about the evolution of the field. First introduced to many readers through Gary Ferguson's book Shouting at the Sky, Paula looks back on her formative years, the core lessons that still endure, and the ethical blind spots that only became clear with time. From learning to "do hard things" to understanding autonomy, nervous systems, and family dynamics, she offers an insider's perspective on what wilderness therapy was—and what it has become. The conversation goes deep into the most complex and controversial issues facing wilderness therapy today, including transporting young people to treatment, trauma-informed decision-making, accreditation and safety standards, and the growing recognition of neurodiversity and family systems work. Paula speaks candidly about when wilderness therapy can be transformative—and when it can cause harm if misused. For parents, professionals, and former students alike, this episode doesn't offer easy answers—but it does offer hard-earned wisdom, grounded in decades of lived experience and a commitment to doing better. To connect with Paula Leslie please email her at [email protected] This podcast is supported by White Mountain Adventure Institute (wmai.org), offering adventure inspired retreats for men and facilitated by Will White.