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In this episode of ScaleUp Radio, Kevin Brent is joined by Peter Laughter for a fascinating discussion about distributed leadership, why traditional command and control management is increasingly becoming a constraint on growing businesses, and what leaders can do instead. Peter knows the command and control model from experience. He grew a staffing business from around $500,000 to $12 million in revenue in five years. But that success eventually exposed a problem familiar to many growing businesses: when too many decisions and too much responsibility sit with the person at the top, the leader can become the bottleneck. For Peter, one of the turning points came when his business suffered a dramatic fall in candidate reviews. His instinct was to devise the solution himself. But an employee called Becky challenged his approach and suggested something much simpler: manage candidate expectations better from the outset. It worked. And it helped Peter recognise something important. The answers to a business's problems often already exist somewhere within the organisation. The leader's job isn't necessarily to provide those answers, but to create an environment in which they can emerge. That idea sits at the heart of distributed leadership. Peter argues that this becomes even more important in what he describes as an "age of acceleration". AI and other rapidly developing technologies are creating challenges and opportunities at a speed and complexity that make it increasingly unrealistic for one person, or even one senior leadership team, to have all the answers. Instead, businesses need structures that allow decisions to be made closer to where the knowledge sits. Importantly, this doesn't mean abandoning structure. Peter compares distributed leadership to jazz. It may sound spontaneous, but great improvisation happens within a strong framework. In the same way, distributed leadership is about creating enough structure for people to exercise judgement, contribute ideas and take responsibility without descending into chaos. We explore examples including Haier, Morning Star and W. L. Gore & Associates, and how organisations have created systems that allow leadership, innovation and decision making to emerge throughout the business. Peter also introduces his 3D framework: Discover, Define and Do. Discover Start with a meaningful question and gather perspectives from the people closest to the issue rather than assuming the leadership team already knows the answer. Define Understand the skills, interests and assets that exist across the team, and bring together the people who can contribute to solving the problem. Do Choose a meaningful but achievable result, work towards it in short sprints, and then review what worked, what was learnt and what new capabilities were created. It provides a practical way for leaders to experiment with distributed leadership without attempting to redesign their entire organisation overnight. There is also a provocative discussion about AI. Peter believes many large organisations risk making a fundamental mistake by treating AI primarily as a mechanism for reducing headcount. In doing so, they may remove people who possess critical organisational knowledge while simultaneously creating a pool of experienced, AI-enabled talent capable of joining or creating smaller disruptive competitors. For SME leaders, that potentially creates an enormous opportunity. One standout message Devolve decisions to where the information sits. If the person closest to the customer, problem or opportunity has better information than the person at the top, forcing every decision upwards doesn't create control. It creates delay. In this episode we discuss • Why command and control leadership increasingly makes the leader the bottleneck • Peter's journey from growing a staffing business rapidly to questioning his own leadership model • How one employee's simple solution changed Peter's thinking about leadership • What distributed leadership actually means in practice • Why distributed leadership requires structure rather than an absence of structure • What jazz can teach us about autonomy and collaboration • How Haier, Morning Star and W. L. Gore have approached distributed decision making • Peter's Discover, Define, Do framework • How to experiment with distributed leadership without creating organisational chaos • Why leaders need to discover the capabilities already sitting within their teams • The danger of using AI purely as a cost cutting exercise • Why disruption of large organisations could create significant opportunities for SMEs The one key thing... The one key thing is that scaling doesn't require the founder to become better at having all the answers. It requires them to build an organisation capable of finding answers without everything having to come through them. For any owner manager who feels that too many decisions still land on their desk, Peter's challenge is worth considering: is maintaining control actually protecting the business, or has it started restricting its ability to grow? From more, to less, to done Before we get into the episode, most founders I speak to feel busy but frustrated. Plenty is happening, but they're frustrated that they aren't moving forward at the rate they want to. Success creates more options, pulling founders and their teams in different directions. Here's what more than 500 interviews on ScaleUp Radio have taught me: the founders who scale choose less, and deliver all of it. That's what the G90 Summit is for. It's a structured half day where we cut through everything competing for your attention, agree the three to five things that must happen in the next 90 days, and build the rhythm to make sure they do. From the frustration and chaos of more, through the discipline of less, to the rhythm of done. Quarterly. Virtual. £97 a seat. Find out more at Smart90.co.uk/summit.   Peter can be found here: [email protected] https://www.linkedin.com/in/peterlaughter/

In this episode of ScaleUp Radio, Kevin Brent is joined by Caroline Chilley and Harriet, co-founders of Boutique Housekeeping, a business that is changing the way busy families think about support in the home. Boutique Housekeeping sits in the space between a traditional cleaning service and employing full-time household staff. Its house managers provide a much broader service, helping with housekeeping, tidying, laundry, shopping, meal preparation, errands and PA-style tasks. But this conversation is about far more than housekeeping. It is a fascinating ScaleUp story about finding the right positioning, creating a repeatable methodology, building a culture that attracts the right people and, crucially, recognising when the founders themselves need clearer roles. Caroline started the business around ten years ago after spotting a gap while working in care. Growth was deliberately steady for much of that period as life circumstances shaped the pace of the business. More recently, however, things have accelerated. One of the biggest changes came when Caroline and Harriet adopted the Visionary and Integrator model described in Rocket Fuel. Caroline took the Visionary role while Harriet became the Integrator. That clearer division of responsibility has helped unlock a new phase of growth. One standout message from the conversation is that the biggest competitor is often not another business at all. It is the status quo. For Boutique Housekeeping, that means families continuing to struggle on, trying to manage everything themselves. For many growing businesses, the same principle applies. The challenge is often helping customers recognise that the way they are currently doing things has a cost. From cleaning service to home management An important turning point came through one of Boutique Housekeeping's early clients. By observing how a highly organised household worked, Caroline and Harriet began to understand that the real value was not simply in completing individual household tasks. It was in creating an environment that worked consistently without the family having to think about everything. That insight eventually became their Calm Code. The five stages are: Space Remove clutter and create space, with a clear home for everything. Order Organise those spaces so that things are easy to find, use and put away. Clean Once the home is organised, establish the standard required to keep it clean. Provision Make sure everyday essentials are available before they are needed, avoiding unnecessary last-minute problems. Systems Introduce routines that reduce the number of decisions the household needs to make. The goal is not simply a tidier home. It is to reduce the mental load carried by busy families and release time and attention for the things that matter more. There is a strong business lesson here too. Systems become valuable when they remove repeated decisions and allow people to focus their energy where it can make the greatest difference. Scaling through people rather than simply adding people Boutique Housekeeping's growth model depends heavily on finding the right house managers. Their recruitment process focuses on experienced, highly motivated people who are capable of taking responsibility rather than waiting to be told what to do. Many have previously held management positions. Once recruited, house managers are supported through the Boutique Housekeeping Diploma, helping the company create a consistent standard of service as it grows. That combination of recruitment, training and culture matters. Caroline and Harriet want their team to have autonomy and to focus on outcomes for the client. Communication between the founders, house managers and clients is supported through Slack, while a dedicated "Superstar Moments" channel shares positive client feedback and celebrates examples of great work. The roles themselves have also been designed around the realities of people's lives, including opportunities to work around school hours. That creates an interesting alignment between the needs of Boutique Housekeeping's employees and many of the families they serve. Founder roles and the Visionary Integrator relationship Another important part of the conversation is Caroline and Harriet's working relationship. Around 18 months ago they introduced the Visionary and Integrator structure. Caroline focuses on vision, ideas and where the organisation is heading. Harriet focuses on turning those ideas into execution and making sure the organisation can deliver. After around a decade of relatively steady development, this change has played a significant part in accelerating growth. The next leadership challenge is already appearing. As the organisation becomes larger, Harriet can no longer be the point through which everything flows. Boutique Housekeeping is therefore starting to introduce another layer of management. It is a challenge many ScaleUp businesses eventually encounter. The structure that gets a business to one stage is rarely the structure that will get it to the next. The ambition Boutique Housekeeping's five-year ambition is to build a national UK presence. Alongside the commercial goal is a broader purpose: to increase the status and recognition of professional domestic work and create worthwhile careers for the people delivering it. Longer term, Caroline and Harriet can see the potential to build the foundations of a global service. In this episode we discuss • How Boutique Housekeeping identified the gap between cleaning and complete household management • Why the status quo can be a bigger competitor than another company • Moving from selling tasks to selling a valuable outcome • How the Calm Code became a repeatable service methodology • Why systems reduce both operational friction and mental load • Recruiting people with the ability and confidence to take ownership • Using training to protect quality as a business grows • Creating a culture built around autonomy and positive reinforcement • Caroline and Harriet's Visionary and Integrator relationship • Why clearer founder roles helped accelerate growth • Adding a new management layer as the organisation scales • Boutique Housekeeping's ambition to grow nationally and ultimately internationally The one key thing The one key thing is that scaling became easier when Caroline and Harriet stopped relying purely on themselves and deliberately created clarity around the model, the people and their own roles. A repeatable methodology gives customers a consistent experience. Training gives good people the confidence to deliver it. And clearly defined leadership roles allow founders to spend more time doing the work where they add the greatest value. That combination is what starts turning a founder-dependent business into a genuinely scalable one. Smart90 and the G90 Summit Before we get into the conversation, most founders I speak to feel busy but frustrated. There is plenty happening, but they are frustrated that they are not moving forward at the rate they want to. Success creates more options, and those options start pulling founders and their teams in different directions. Here is what more than 500 interviews on ScaleUp Radio have taught me: the founders who scale choose less, and deliver all of it. That is what the G90 Summit is for. It is a structured half-day where we cut through everything competing for your attention, agree the three to five things that must happen in the next 90 days and build the rhythm to make sure they do. From the frustration and chaos of more, through the discipline of less, to the rhythm of done. Quarterly. Virtual. £97 a seat. Smart90.co.uk/summit   Caroline & Harriet can be found here: https://www.boutique-housekeeping.co.uk/ How well is your home supporting your success? Is your home helping you succeed or constantly tripping you up? Take the assessment and receive 6 quick wins you can implement immediately so that your home life becomes the support you deserve in achieving your dreams. https://caroline-dexrrxet.scoreapp.com   Resources: Traction by Gina Wickman - https://www.waterstones.com/book/traction/gino-wickman/9781936661831 They Ask You Answer by Marcus Sheridan - https://uk.bookshop.org/p/books/they-ask-you-answer-a-revolutionary-approach-to-inbound-sales-content-marketing-and-today-s-digital-consumer-marcus-sheridan/bb2de60a974b71da?ean=9781119610144 Tony Robbins - https://www.tonyrobbins.com/ Slack - https://slack.com/intl/en-gb

What happens when the thing that got your business growing becomes the very thing stopping it from scaling? In this episode of ScaleUp Radio, Kevin Brent is joined by Thom Van Dycke to explore a challenge that will be familiar to many founder led businesses: growth initially comes because of the founder's network, relationships, energy and ability to sell. But eventually, there are only so many people the founder knows and only so many hours in the day. At that point, the founder can become the bottleneck. Thom's own journey into business is unusual. After spending around 20 years as a pastor, he left ministry in 2020 and moved into entrepreneurship. Starting as a copywriter, he reached $10,000 a month by his fourth month before gradually evolving his business towards working with established founder led companies. Today, his approach centres on helping businesses develop their own frameworks for positioning, marketing, sales and lifetime value rather than blindly following somebody else's blueprint. One phrase captures that philosophy particularly well: "Adapt, don't adopt." There is no universal formula for building a successful business. Geography, background, customers, market conditions, team and the founder themselves all change the answer. The founder's plateau One of the big themes in our conversation is the point where founder driven growth stops working. In the early days, being highly sales focused can be an enormous advantage. Founders use their personal relationships, reputation and energy to win work. But eventually the network runs out, the diary fills up and capacity becomes the constraint. Scaling then requires something different. The business has to become capable of generating opportunities, converting them and serving customers without everything passing through the founder. Thom shared the example of one client who, after just two months of working on this transition, was able to take their first weekend off in three years. That is a useful reminder that scaling is not simply about increasing turnover. It is also about creating a business that no longer depends on the founder being permanently available. Four frameworks for sustainable growth Rather than prescribing a generic blueprint, Thom works around four areas: Positioning What genuinely makes the business different and gives customers a reason to choose it? Marketing How does the company consistently attract the right opportunities rather than simply more enquiries? Sales How does the business create a repeatable way of converting those opportunities without relying entirely on the founder? Lifetime Value How does the business continue creating value through repeat work, referrals and re engaging previous customers? The important point is that these frameworks need to fit the business rather than forcing the business to fit somebody else's system. Positioning is about much more than marketing One of the standout parts of our discussion is the role positioning plays throughout a business. Strong positioning can support better pricing because customers understand why the company is different. It can help with recruitment because potential employees understand what the organisation stands for. And it can improve consistency because the whole team has a shared answer to the question: why should somebody choose us? But that only works when positioning moves beyond the founder. If only the owner can explain what makes the company special, the business is still dependent on the owner. The whole team needs to understand it, believe it and be able to communicate it. Scaling means becoming a leader Thom identifies three important ingredients for making that transition: True leadership Investing in people and culture rather than simply directing activity. Humility Being prepared to ask the team for feedback and hear answers the founder might not necessarily want to hear. Positioning Creating a clear shared understanding of what makes the business different. Together, these help the founder move from being the person responsible for everything towards becoming the person who creates the environment in which others can succeed. The opportunity in "AI proof" businesses We also discuss Thom's focus on founder led businesses such as skilled trades, often with teams of around eight to ten people. These businesses can face a very different set of scaling challenges from technology businesses or solopreneurs. Demand may not be the problem at all. Instead, they may be struggling with capacity, finding good people and protecting margins. Thom talks about businesses where margins can be around 2% when an industry benchmark may be closer to 8%. He also makes the point that marketing does not just have to attract customers. In businesses affected by talent shortages, it may also need to attract employees. And because the underlying skilled work is much harder for AI to replace, these businesses potentially have significant long term resilience. The one key thing The one key thing from this conversation is that scaling starts when the founder stops trying to be the answer to everything. The founder's energy, relationships and skills may have created the growth, but the next stage requires leadership, trust, clear positioning and repeatable systems that other people can use. Or, in Thom's words: Adapt, don't adopt. Build the approach that fits your business rather than copying somebody else's blueprint. Smart90 and the G90 Summit Before we get into it, most founders I speak to feel busy but frustrated. Plenty is happening, but the business is not moving forward at the rate they want. Success creates more options, and those options can pull founders and their teams in different directions. Here's what more than 500 interviews on ScaleUp Radio have taught me: the founders who scale choose less, and deliver all of it. That is what the G90 Summit is designed to help with. It is a structured half day where we cut through everything competing for your attention, agree the three to five things that must happen in the next 90 days, and build the rhythm to make sure they do. From the frustration and chaos of more, through the discipline of less, to the rhythm of done. Quarterly. Virtual. £97 a seat. Smart90.co.uk/summit Make sure you don't miss any future episodes by subscribing to ScaleUp Radio wherever you like to listen to your podcasts. You can also nominate someone with an interesting ScaleUp story to join Kevin on a future episode.   Thom can be found here: https://www.linkedin.com/in/thom-van-dycke/   Resources: My Burning Story by Minister Sarudzai Dorcas - https://uk.bookshop.org/p/books/my-burning-story-minister-sarudzai-dorcas/687cc15f27d3f125?ean=9781496977083 Alex Hormuz - https://www.acquisition.com/team/bio-alex The Culture Code by Daniel Coyle - https://uk.bookshop.org/p/books/the-culture-code-the-secrets-of-highly-successful-groups-daniel-coyle/10dede03413631bf?ean=9781847941275

In this episode of ScaleUp Radio, host Kevin Brent is joined by entrepreneur Rachel Hill, whose journey takes us from building and selling a multi site childcare business to breathing new life into a closed model village and launching a new consumer brand almost by accident. Rachel started Hillside Childcare at just 26, converting a granny flat into a 16 place nursery as a way of helping to pay a new mortgage. That first nursery eventually became a four site operation looking after 299 children. What makes Rachel's story particularly interesting is not simply the growth. It is what she learnt about making a business repeatable, creating a strong culture, managing one of the largest costs in a people intensive business and, ultimately, building a company capable of operating without her. That last point became particularly important when Rachel decided to sell. After years of being the person everyone turned to when something went wrong, the pressures following COVID left her questioning whether she still wanted to be the one responsible for fixing every problem. The decision to sell came remarkably quickly. During a dog walk, Rachel decided it was time. Rather than formally taking the business to market, she approached an established buyer directly through LinkedIn. Five months later, the deal was complete. Rachel handled much of an intensive due diligence process herself because she wanted to protect her staff and families from unnecessary uncertainty. She also rejected the first offer, negotiated a price she was comfortable with and ultimately achieved a clean exit with a one off payment and no requirement to remain with the business. One of the standout lessons from the conversation is this: A business that can operate without its owner is not only easier to run. It can also be considerably more valuable when the time comes to sell. Rachel had developed systems, policies, procedures and a management structure that meant Hillside was not completely dependent upon her day to day involvement. That independence became an important asset during the sale. But selling Hillside did not mean Rachel stopped being entrepreneurial. While the sale was taking place, she bought Bondville Model Village, a closed and run down one acre attraction containing around 200 miniature buildings. Rachel saw the potential in an underdog. After months of renovation, Bondville reopened, but the first version of the business model was not right. Trying to operate throughout the year meant the winter numbers simply did not work. Rather than persist with the original plan, Rachel changed it. Bondville became a seasonal attraction, creating a business model better suited to customer behaviour and the economics of the site. That willingness to change direction appears again in Rachel's latest venture. Unable to find the right candles for Bondville's gift shop, she created her own. The result was 45 by Rachel Hill, a range of candles inspired by the model village, each incorporating a miniature keepsake and its own story. They repeatedly sold out, leading Rachel to explore how the range could grow beyond Bondville through a dedicated Shopify store. In this episode Kevin and Rachel discuss: • How a 16 place nursery became a four site childcare group serving 299 children • Why replication and strong operating systems were critical to growing Hillside • How Rachel maintained consistency as the business expanded across multiple locations • Why staffing became one of the toughest challenges in the business, particularly after COVID • The importance of culture and creating genuine buy in from the team • Why Rachel closely monitored staff wages as a percentage of turnover • The pressures that come when the founder remains the organisation's ultimate problem solver • What finally prompted Rachel to sell Hillside • Why she chose an off market approach rather than putting the business openly up for sale • How she approached a potential acquirer directly through LinkedIn • What five months of due diligence looked like from the seller's side • Why Rachel kept the sale confidential from the wider team during the process • How she valued the business using profit multiples and property values • Why being prepared to reject the first offer mattered • The value of building a company capable of running without its owner • Why Rachel bought a closed model village while simultaneously selling another business • How Bondville was renovated and relaunched • Why Rachel abandoned the original year round operating model • The importance of accepting quickly when the economics of an idea do not work • How a product created to solve a problem in Bondville's gift shop became a new business opportunity • Why Rachel believes entrepreneurs should benchmark themselves against the best rather than simply comparing themselves with local competitors • The value of hiring people who are stronger than you in the areas where you are weak The one key thing Build the business so that it does not need you. Rachel's experience with Hillside demonstrates why owner independence matters long before an exit is being considered. Systems, procedures, capable managers and a strong culture helped Rachel grow across multiple sites. They also meant that when she eventually decided to sell, the buyer was acquiring a functioning business rather than simply buying Rachel's job. For any owner manager thinking about ScaleUp, that creates an important question: If you disappeared from the business for three months tomorrow, what would stop working? The answers are likely to point directly towards the systems, people and responsibilities that need attention next. Rachel's ScaleUp philosophy Rachel describes her approach as "go big or go home." Rather than benchmarking yourself only against the businesses around you, she believes in looking at the organisations doing something exceptionally well and asking what can be learnt from them. Equally, founders do not have to be good at everything. Rachel recognises her own strengths as creative and entrepreneurial and brings in people who can handle areas where she is weaker, including technology. That allows the founder to spend more time doing the things where they can create the greatest value. Before you listen Most founders I speak to feel busy but frustrated. Plenty is happening, but they are frustrated that they are not moving forward at the rate they want to. Their success creates more options, pulling them and their teams in different directions. Here is what more than 500 interviews on ScaleUp Radio have taught me: The founders who scale choose less, and deliver all of it. That is what the G90 Summit is for. It is a structured half day where we cut through everything competing for your attention, agree the three to five things that must happen in the next 90 days and build the rhythm to make sure they do. From the frustration and chaos of more, through the discipline of less, to the rhythm of done. Quarterly. Virtual. £97 a seat. Visit Smart90.co.uk/summit Listen to the episode Listen to the full conversation with Rachel to hear the story behind Hillside Childcare, the realities of selling a business, the reinvention of Bondville and the entrepreneurial thinking behind 45 by Rachel Hill. Make sure you do not miss future episodes by subscribing to ScaleUp Radio wherever you listen to your podcasts. And if you know somebody with an interesting ScaleUp story, you can nominate them as a future guest for ScaleUp Radio.  Rachel can be found here: Instagram - @Rachel_Merry_Hill Connect with Bondville Model Village Bondville Model Village (VisitBondville.com) Instagram - @BondvilleModelVillage_ Facebook – Bondville Model Village

In this episode of ScaleUp Radio, host Kevin Brent is joined by John Readman, founder of ASK BOSCO and Modo25, to explore what it really takes to turn a big idea into a focused, scalable business. John's journey offers a particularly useful lesson for founders: sometimes scaling isn't about doing more. It's about narrowing your focus. ASK BOSCO was created to tackle a problem familiar to many e-commerce businesses. Marketing teams can see return on ad spend, finance teams can see profitability, and platforms such as Google, Meta and TikTok all report their own versions of performance. But those numbers don't necessarily add up to a clear answer to the question that really matters: Where should we spend our next pound to generate the most profit? ASK BOSCO brings those disparate sources together, de-duplicates the data and helps businesses connect marketing activity with commercial performance. But the technology is only part of John's ScaleUp story. One of the standout moments in our conversation is John's account of being told that ASK BOSCO's original strategy was simply too broad. Rather than defending the original plan, the team listened, narrowed its focus and rebuilt the proposition around the Shopify ecosystem. That decision created a much clearer route to market and helped underpin a £4.1 million investment from Gresham House Ventures. The standout message Focus can be a growth strategy. The temptation when building an ambitious business is to serve more markets, add more features and pursue more opportunities. John's experience suggests the opposite can sometimes create far greater value: choose the market where you can win, remove friction and execute relentlessly. We also explore the people and culture behind the businesses. John talks about creating a high-performance environment based on trust, transparency and accountability. That includes a four-day working week on full-time pay, measuring people on outputs rather than hours, monthly visibility of KPIs and even creating a deliberate "not-to-do" list. There's an interesting influence from military discipline too: punctuality, clear processes, teamwork and people knowing what's expected of them. In this episode, we discuss: Why marketing ROAS and actual business profitability can tell very different stories How ASK BOSCO creates a clearer view of marketing performance Why linking product profitability to individual campaigns matters The decision to pivot from a broad analytics proposition to a Shopify-first strategy Why external advice can be invaluable when it challenges your assumptions Raising £4.1 million in venture capital and what investors bring beyond money Building a scalable SaaS model through the Shopify ecosystem Why human onboarding and support can be a competitive advantage in an increasingly AI-driven market Using a four-day week to focus on outputs rather than inputs Creating a "not-to-do" list to protect strategic focus Using a small number of annual "Big Rocks" to create alignment How transparency, discipline and trust shape company culture John's longer-term ambition for ASK BOSCO The one key thing... Scaling often means having the confidence to choose less. ASK BOSCO became more investable and potentially more scalable when the team stopped trying to solve the problem for everybody and committed to a clearly defined ecosystem. For founders facing dozens of apparently good opportunities, John's story is a reminder that the question isn't simply "What could we do?" It's "What should we deliberately choose not to do so we can execute the things that matter?" From more, to less, to done Most founders I speak to feel busy but frustrated. Plenty is happening, but they're not moving forward at the rate they want to. Often that's because success creates more options, pulling founders and their teams in different directions. More than 500 interviews on ScaleUp Radio have reinforced something important: the founders who scale choose less, and deliver all of it. That's what the G90 Summit is for. It's a structured half-day where we cut through everything competing for your attention, agree the three to five things that must happen in the next 90 days, and build the rhythm to make sure they do. From the frustration and chaos of more, through the discipline of less, to the rhythm of done. Quarterly. Virtual. £97 a seat. Smart90.co.uk/summit Listen to the full episode to hear John's ScaleUp journey and the lessons he's learned from building, focusing, funding and leading growing businesses.   Resources: Black Box Thinking – Matthew Syed (World of Books website) The One Minute Manager – Kenneth Blanchard (World of Books website) Who Moved My Cheese – Spencer Johnson (World of Books website) Fish – Stephen C. Lundin (World of Books website) PODCASTS Leaders on Shopify (John Readman's own podcast.) Built to Sell – John Warrillow The Prof G podcast with Scott Galloway Acquired.fm    CONTACT   [email protected]   LinkedIn.com - John Readman

What makes your business genuinely different? And, more importantly, could your team explain it without you in the room? In this episode of ScaleUp Radio, Kevin Brent talks with Simon Bowen about the Models Method, the power of visual thinking, and why growing businesses need to codify the distinctive thinking that sits behind what they do. Simon argues that many founder-led businesses have something genuinely special, but much of it remains locked inside the founder's head. As the business grows, that thinking can become diluted internally. The result is that customers increasingly struggle to see the difference externally, leaving price as the easiest point of comparison. One of the standout messages from the conversation is: Internal dilution leads to external commoditisation. Simon describes a company's distinctive thinking as its source code. Marketing and sales may be the visible interface, and processes may determine how work gets delivered, but underneath them sits the way the business thinks about problems and creates value. The challenge for a scaling business is to capture that thinking so other people can understand, communicate and apply it consistently. In this episode, Kevin and Simon explore: Why founders often find it difficult to articulate how they think rather than simply what they do How failing to codify a company's genius can lead to internal dilution and ultimately commoditisation Why visual models can become a shared vocabulary across a growing organisation Simon's Iceberg Model, moving from the customer's known problem through the hidden problem to the deeper, often unarticulated, "ache" Why identifying that unknown problem can move a customer conversation away from price and towards value The three ingredients of an effective model: geometry, content and choreography How models can help leaders facilitate difficult conversations without making the discussion personal Simon's Conflict Resolution Matrix and the four positions of Prisoner, Sniper, Student and Volunteer The idea of a Genius Model as the source code for how a company thinks Simon's 20/80/20 framework: created thinking, curated solutions and the way they are uniquely integrated Why codifying founder knowledge matters increasingly as a company scales and more people become responsible for delivering its value The one key thing… If the thinking that makes your company special exists only in the founder's head, it becomes harder to scale without diluting it. Codify that genius so your team can understand it, communicate it and reproduce it. There's also a powerful lesson here about customers. What they initially ask you to solve may only be the tip of the iceberg. Businesses that can identify and articulate the deeper problem customers feel but cannot yet name become sense-makers, and that can fundamentally change the value conversation. A question for your next 90 days What part of the value your business creates still depends too heavily on knowledge or intuition sitting inside your head? Most founders I speak to feel busy but stuck. Plenty happening, but no real clarity on what matters most this quarter. Here's what more than 500 interviews on this show have taught me: the founders who scale choose less, and deliver all of it. That's what the G90 Summit is for. A structured half-day where we cut through everything competing for your attention, agree the three to five things that must happen in the next 90 days, and build the rhythm to make sure they do. Quarterly, virtual, £97 a seat. Smart90.co.uk/summit Make sure you don't miss future episodes by subscribing to ScaleUp Radio wherever you listen to your podcasts, and nominate a guest if you know someone with an interesting ScaleUp story.   Scaling up your business isn't easy, and can be a little daunting. Let ScaleUp Radio make it a little easier for you. With guests who have been where you are now, and can offer their thoughts and advice on several aspects of business. ScaleUp Radio is the business podcast you've been waiting for. If you would like to be a guest on ScaleUp Radio, please click here: https://bizsmarts.co.uk/scaleupradio/kevin You can get in touch with Kevin here: [email protected]   Simon can be found here: https://www.modelsmethod.com/ [email protected] https://www.youtube.com/@TheWisdomOfShow_withSimonBowen

This episode of ScaleUp Radio is a little different. We're taking you inside one of our monthly ScaleUp Club sessions, where members get the opportunity to explore some of the challenges that come with building and scaling a business, share their experiences and put questions to our guest. This month, our main theme was Aligning Personal & Business Goals, and we welcomed back James West, co-founder of ONLE, for a Q&A about building a business that supports the life you actually want to lead. We also had an AI Pulse update from Tim Winstanley, looking at AI watermarking, the implications for businesses using AI-generated content, and why every business needs to start thinking seriously about its AI policy. When the business starts running your life For many founders, one of the original attractions of starting a business is freedom and control. Yet, as the business grows, it can produce exactly the opposite. James and his wife and co-founder Kelly created ONLE partly because they wanted greater control over their lives. Their personal circumstances, including caring for a daughter with severe special needs, meant that flexibility wasn't simply a nice-to-have. But as ONLE grew, James and Kelly found themselves personally hosting all the networking meetings. The business they had created to provide greater freedom was filling their calendars and making holidays and strategic thinking increasingly difficult. It is a challenge many founders will recognise. The discussion explored the importance of turning the usual planning process around: rather than deciding what the business needs and fitting your life around it, start by defining what you want your life to look like and then ask what the business needs to become to make that possible. Practical tools discussed included: A Balance Wheel, scoring different areas of your life from 1 to 10 each quarter and identifying where attention is needed. A Bucket List, bringing personal ambitions into annual and quarterly planning rather than putting them off until some undefined point in the future. Extending the same thinking to your team, understanding what individuals want to achieve and finding ways of connecting those aspirations with the goals of the business. Scaling ONLE beyond its founders James also shared how ONLE tackled one of the classic barriers to scale: too much of the customer experience depending on the founders. Their answer has been the Pod Owner model. Rather than James and Kelly personally nurturing every networking group, responsibility is delegated to local pod owners. An important distinction emerged from the conversation: running a meeting and nurturing a community are not necessarily the same skill. ONLE therefore looks for people who naturally make newcomers feel welcome and who want to build relationships within their communities. It is a useful example of a wider ScaleUp lesson: delegation isn't simply about giving somebody your tasks. It can mean designing a model where the right people take ownership of the things they are naturally better placed to do. AI Pulse: watermarking, trust and the value of expertise Tim Winstanley's AI Pulse brought a very different issue into the room: the developing world of AI watermarking and what greater transparency around AI-generated content could mean for businesses. The discussion explored the prospect of statistical fingerprints being embedded within AI-generated text, allowing content to be identified as AI-generated even after it has been copied and pasted. That raises an important question for businesses. If AI-generated content can increasingly be identified, how will customers interpret that label? The issue isn't necessarily whether the work is good or bad. It is about credibility, transparency and whether a business can demonstrate that appropriate human judgement has been applied. The discussion highlighted the importance of developing a clear AI policy, including approved tools, human review, disclosure and appropriate safeguards around business and client data. One member shared their experience of implementing a comprehensive AI policy, restricting use to an approved tool, training the team, adapting client terms and conditions and requiring third-party suppliers to follow appropriate policies. The one key thing… Start with the life you want to create, then build the business that can deliver it — rather than allowing the business to dictate the life you're able to have. James and Kelly's experience with ONLE is a good illustration. Scaling wasn't simply about growing the networking business. It was about redesigning it so that growth no longer required the founders to be present everywhere. And perhaps that's one of the most useful questions any founder can ask: Is the business you're scaling taking you closer to your definition of success, or further away from it? From busy to focused: the G90 Summit Most founders I speak to feel busy but stuck. Plenty happening, but no real clarity on what matters most this quarter. Here's what more than 500 interviews on this show have taught me: the founders who scale choose less, and deliver all of it. That's what the G90 Summit is for. It's a structured half-day where we cut through everything competing for your attention, agree the three to five things that must happen in the next 90 days, and build the rhythm to make sure they do. Quarterly, virtual, £97 a seat. Find out more at Smart90.co.uk/summit.

In this episode of ScaleUp Radio, host Kevin Brent is joined by Suzie Siddall, CEO of Opus International Products, a Warwickshire-based precision engineering and manufacturing business working across automotive, aerospace, defence, industrial and medical sectors. Suzie's story is one of leadership through significant change. Having moved from Managing Director to CEO following the death of the company's founder in 2024, she has had to balance continuity with the need to reshape the business for its next stage of growth. Today, Opus has a team of around 33 people and significant UK manufacturing capability across CNC machining, injection moulding and vacuum casting. The business has grown from its original sourcing model into a sophisticated manufacturing operation supporting customers from prototype and engineering development through to production. But this conversation is about much more than manufacturing. It explores what happens when a leader has to move away from being involved in the day-to-day operation and start thinking differently about strategy, governance, risk and the future of the business. From operational leader to CEO One of Suzie's biggest challenges has been making the transition from Managing Director to CEO. Rather than simply taking on more operational responsibility, she recognised that the business needed her to spend more time looking ahead. An important part of that transition has been the creation of a formal Board of Directors, combining members of the internal leadership team with external experience and challenge. The board now meets monthly, focusing on strategy, business trajectory and the trends behind the numbers rather than simply reviewing operational activity. It is an interesting lesson for any growing owner-managed business: better governance is not about adding bureaucracy. Done well, it creates the space and challenge needed to make better strategic decisions. Diversification without abandoning what works Automotive has historically represented around 75–80% of Opus's revenue. That concentration has helped build the business, but it also creates risk when the automotive market becomes volatile. Suzie and the team have therefore set a clear strategic objective: bring automotive down to around 40% of total revenue. Crucially, the plan is not to shrink the automotive business. Instead, Opus intends to grow its work in sectors including MedTech, defence, marine, off-highway and aerospace so that the overall business becomes larger and more diversified. The team has approached diversification systematically, looking at where investment is expected over the next five years and identifying sectors where Opus's existing capabilities can transfer successfully. Its IATF 16949 automotive accreditation and experience of high-tolerance, quality-critical manufacturing provide a strong base, while further accreditation, including AS9100, forms part of opening additional opportunities. Don't diversify just because a market looks attractive A particularly useful lesson from Suzie is the importance of understanding what capabilities can genuinely transfer into a new sector. Moving into a new market is not simply a sales exercise. It requires understanding the standards, accreditations, buying processes, networks and expectations of that sector. Opus has therefore combined market analysis with networking and sector engagement, including involvement with Make UK Defence. That creates a useful principle for other scaling businesses: diversification works best when there is a strong overlap between an attractive market and something your business already does exceptionally well. Helping customers cross the "valley of death" One of the standout messages from the conversation is Suzie's description of the gap between designing something and being able to manufacture it successfully at scale. That is where Opus aims to become much more than a component supplier. The business works collaboratively with customers to solve manufacturing challenges, taking projects from concept and prototype towards repeatable production. For Suzie, those customer partnerships are an important differentiator. Rather than simply waiting for a drawing and producing a part, the team wants to understand the problem the customer is trying to solve and contribute its engineering and manufacturing expertise. Standout message: The strongest supplier relationships are built when you stop simply supplying what a customer asks for and start helping them solve the problem behind it. Hiring for attitude Suzie also talks about the people behind the business. Opus has deliberately built a mixture of experienced team members and younger people and apprentices coming into manufacturing. Her recruitment philosophy is straightforward: hire for attitude and willingness to learn, because technical skills can be taught. That philosophy is supported by an open culture where employees have access to senior leaders, lessons learned are shared and people can see the connection between the work they do and the finished products created for major brands. The use of external HR also gives employees access to an impartial source of support outside the management structure. Leadership through difficult circumstances Running throughout the conversation is the subject of resilience. Suzie's move into the CEO role came in exceptionally difficult circumstances, yet one of her priorities was maintaining stability for the team while continuing to move the company forward. External advice, openness with employees and the willingness to bring new perspectives into the business have all played an important role. Rather than believing that being CEO means having every answer, Suzie has deliberately surrounded herself with people who can challenge her thinking. For scaling leaders, that may be one of the most valuable lessons from the episode. The one key thing Growth is not just about winning more of the same work. Sustainable scale comes from deliberately reducing concentration risk, building leadership around you and creating the space to work on where the business needs to go next. In this episode, we discuss Suzie's transition from Managing Director to CEO Leading a business through significant personal and organisational change Why Opus introduced a formal Board of Directors Moving from operational management towards strategic leadership Why external challenge can improve decision making Reducing dependence on a single market Opus's strategy for moving from 75–80% automotive revenue towards 40% Identifying attractive new sectors without losing strategic focus Transferring manufacturing capabilities into MedTech, defence, marine and aerospace The importance of accreditation when entering new markets Building genuine partnerships with customers Helping clients bridge the gap between product design and production Hiring for attitude rather than skills alone Developing apprentices alongside experienced employees Transparency, communication and maintaining team stability Why resilience and outside support matter when leadership gets difficult About Suzie Siddall Suzie Siddall is CEO of Opus International Products, a UK precision engineering and manufacturing company based in Leamington Spa. Opus supports customers from engineering development and prototyping through to production, with capabilities including precision CNC machining, injection moulding and vacuum casting. The company has traditionally had a strong position within premium automotive manufacturing and is now deliberately expanding its presence across sectors including defence, medical, aerospace and industrial applications. Smart90 Most founders I speak to feel busy but stuck. Plenty happening, but no real clarity on what matters most this quarter. Here's what more than 500 interviews on this show have taught me: the founders who scale choose less, and deliver all of it. That's what the G90 Summit is for. A structured half-day where we cut through everything competing for your attention, agree the three to five things that must happen in the next 90 days, and build the rhythm to make sure they do. Quarterly. Virtual. £97 a seat. Find out more at Smart90.co.uk/summit. Don't miss future episodes Make sure you don't miss any future episodes by subscribing to ScaleUp Radio wherever you like to listen to your podcasts, and why not give us a follow. You can also nominate a guest for ScaleUp Radio if you know someone with an interesting ScaleUp story. Explore the full ScaleUp Radio archive and find details of future episodes through Smart90.co.uk/scaleup-radio. The description of Opus's current capabilities and diversification direction is also supported by the company's current site; its May 2026 announcement specifically describes the new board as supporting governance, strategic growth and sector diversification. Suzie can be found here: https://www.linkedin.com/in/suzie-siddall-2436ba47/ https://www.opusproducts.com/ https://www.instagram.com/suzie_opus/   Resources: How to Be Sad by Helen Russell - https://uk.bookshop.org/p/books/how-to-be-sad-the-key-to-a-happier-life-helen-russell/b4ab79ef582e4fe1?ean=9780008384593&bkshp-astro=t

What happens when you stop saying yes to everything and commit to the part of your business that customers really want? In this episode of ScaleUp Radio, host Kevin Brent talks to Janet Tanguay, founder of The Hammock Way of Life, about the journey from broad business consulting to building a scalable business around vision boarding, coach certification and a growing global community. Janet's story is a great example of how focus can unlock growth. The turning point came during and after the pandemic. Janet had been using vision boarding to help businesses think creatively about their future, and demand began to grow. Rather than treating that demand as just another service opportunity, she recognised the market signal and made a deliberate decision to niche. Importantly, that also meant saying no. Janet turned down a significant project that didn't fit the direction she had chosen. That decision gave her the space to commit properly to the vision boarding opportunity, and she believes it accelerated the subsequent growth of the business. But finding a niche created another challenge: how do you scale something that depends on your own expertise and delivery? Janet's answer has been certification. She developed a programme to train and certify other coaches in her methodology, with Module 1 accredited for CPD in the UK and Module 2 progressing through the process. The model combines online learning, live Q&A and curated resources, enabling Janet to build a global network of independent practitioners rather than relying on a traditional employee model. What is particularly interesting is that the real value isn't simply the certification. It's the community around it. Members share resources, learn from each other and collaborate when clients need expertise outside their own areas. The community continues to develop its knowledge too, including work around aphantasia and making vision boarding more accessible to visually impaired people. Rather than trying to protect the methodology through highly restrictive agreements, Janet's approach is to make the network valuable enough that people want to remain part of it. That creates an important lesson for any founder thinking about scaling through partners, licences, franchises or certification: Don't just create a method people can buy. Create an ecosystem they don't want to leave. Removing the founder bottleneck Janet is now tackling another familiar ScaleUp challenge: removing herself from the centre of the business. At one stage she found herself facing 18 meetings in a single day, a pretty clear indication that the founder had become a bottleneck. Her longer-term ambition is to exit the business within the next few years, but she wants an exit that protects the purpose, vision and values she has created. That means systemising now. She is looking at bringing in operational leadership and strengthening areas including CRM, IT and marketing so the business can operate successfully without depending on Janet for everyday delivery. There's a valuable distinction here. Building a business that generates income for its founder isn't necessarily the same thing as building a business that somebody else could own. Word of mouth isn't necessarily accidental We also discuss Janet's approach to marketing. Much of her growth comes through referrals and word of mouth, but Janet doesn't simply wait for recommendations to happen. She deliberately brings well-connected people into events and experiences, knowing that if they see the value first-hand they're likely to talk about it. It's a useful reminder that word of mouth can be cultivated. We also hear the story behind Janet's book, Hammock Way of Life: Leaping Toward Joy, including an unexpected appearance on a Times Square billboard and how that visibility itself created another potential business opportunity. The standout message Perhaps the strongest ScaleUp lesson from Janet's journey is: Growth accelerated when she became clearer about what the business was going to do and, just as importantly, what it wasn't going to do. Choosing a niche meant turning down work. Scaling the niche meant turning her knowledge into a repeatable methodology. And building something that can ultimately exist without her means deliberately removing herself as the bottleneck. Those are three very different stages of the same journey from founder-led business to scalable organisation. In this episode, we explore Why customer demand prompted Janet to pivot from general consulting into a specialist niche Why saying no to a large opportunity helped rather than hindered growth How certification can turn founder expertise into a scalable model Why community can become a competitive advantage How Janet is building an international network without creating a large employee base The importance of systems when you're trying to remove founder dependency Why Janet is thinking about her eventual exit years in advance How to cultivate word-of-mouth marketing rather than simply hoping for referrals What a Times Square billboard taught Janet about unexpected opportunities The one key thing Scaling often starts with choosing less. Janet's experience demonstrates that focus isn't simply about becoming more efficient. It means having the confidence to decide where the greatest opportunity lies and saying no to work that distracts from it. Once you've made that choice, the next question is how you build systems, people and a community that allow the idea to grow without everything continuing to depend on you. Feeling busy but stuck? Most founders I speak to feel busy but stuck. Plenty happening, but no real clarity on what matters most this quarter. Here's what more than 500 interviews on this show have taught me: the founders who scale choose less, and deliver all of it. That's what the G90 Summit is for. It's a structured half-day where we cut through everything competing for your attention, agree the three to five things that must happen in the next 90 days, and build the rhythm to make sure they do. Quarterly. Virtual. £97 a seat. Find out more at Smart90.co.uk/summit. And if you know somebody with an interesting ScaleUp story who would make a great guest for ScaleUp Radio, you can nominate them for a future episode. Recommended Resources Books Made To Stick – Chip Heath & Dan Heath Good to Great – Jim Collins Let Them – Mel Robbins Tech Go High Level Quickbooks Suno Claude ChatGPT Contact   LinkedIn: Janet Tanguay Web: The Hammock Way of Life Insta: The Hammock Way of Life

What if one of the biggest constraints on your ability to scale is something you're not measuring at all? In this episode of ScaleUp Radio, Kevin Brent is joined by Rob McKenna for a fascinating discussion about trust: how to measure it, why founders frequently misjudge it, and why building trust isn't about creating a perfect culture. Rob introduces the WiLD Trust Index, a framework designed to turn trust from something intangible into something leaders can measure, understand and deliberately improve. For founders, there's a particularly important message here. Delegation and succession aren't simply transfers of responsibility. They're transfers of trust. And the ability of an organisation to maintain and repair trust without the founder could ultimately become an important part of the value of the business.   Most business owners measure revenue, profit, cash, sales and productivity. But how many measure trust? That matters because people remain one of the biggest challenges facing growing businesses, yet Rob points out that only around 4% of KPIs are people based. So perhaps we're measuring the outputs while ignoring one of the things driving them. Rob's work challenges the idea that trust is simply a feeling. Through the WiLD Trust Index, trust can be examined across 33 drivers at three different levels: Personal: what is happening within us, including things such as vulnerability. Team: the patterns between people, including reliability and the way colleagues behave towards one another. Organisational: the conditions around people, including alignment with the organisation's mission. This produces a Net Trust Score, alongside insight into the individual factors affecting trust. Rob shares the example of one organisation whose score improved by 30 points in seven months after making trust an explicit KPI. But measuring trust is only part of the conversation. Trust is built through repair, not perfection One of the standout ideas from this episode is that high-trust organisations aren't organisations where things never go wrong. People disappoint each other. Commitments get missed. Leaders make mistakes. Difficult conversations happen. What matters is what happens next. Rob describes the importance of creating an infrastructure for repair, where grace, forgiveness and honest communication allow people to rebuild trust when it has been damaged. That creates an interesting distinction between vulnerability and transparency. Vulnerability is the openness to being hurt and therefore requires courage, while transparency is the openness to being seen. For founders trying to create stronger leadership teams, that difference matters. Do you know how much your team actually trusts you? Rob also introduces his Trust Quadrant, which looks at both team and organisational trust. Organisations can fall into four broad categories: Stronghold, where both are high; Islands of Trust, where team trust is high but organisational trust is low; Shell of Trust, where organisational trust is high but team trust is low; and Jungle, where both are low. One of the most striking findings Rob shares is that around 48% of individuals in the research are working in Jungle organisations. There is another uncomfortable finding for business leaders. CEOs in high-trust Stronghold organisations tend to have a reasonably accurate view of trust, or even underestimate it. CEOs in low-trust Jungle organisations are more likely to overestimate how much trust exists. In other words, the founders who most need to address trust may be the least likely to recognise the problem. Delegation is a trust transfer There's also a powerful connection here with one of the perennial ScaleUp challenges: getting the business less dependent on its founder. We often think of delegation as transferring tasks, decisions and accountability. Rob reframes it as a transfer of trust. The same applies to succession. Replacing a founder or senior leader isn't simply about finding somebody capable of performing the role. The organisation also needs to transfer the relationships and infrastructure that allow trust to survive and, crucially, to be repaired when something goes wrong. That potentially makes an organisation's trust infrastructure an asset in its own right, particularly when a founder starts thinking about succession, exit and valuation. In this episode, we explore: Why trust should be treated as a measurable business KPI The disconnect between people problems and the KPIs businesses actually track The 33 drivers behind the WiLD Trust Index Personal, team and organisational trust Why speed and cost can reveal the consequences of trust The difference between measuring trust outcomes and measuring the drivers themselves Why repair matters more than trying to create a perfect culture Vulnerability versus transparency The four types of organisation in Rob's Trust Quadrant Why CEOs can have a dangerously inaccurate picture of trust How delegation becomes a transfer of trust rather than simply a transfer of tasks The role trust plays in succession and reducing founder dependency Why an infrastructure of trust could ultimately contribute to business value The standout message Trust isn't built by never getting things wrong. It's built by creating the ability to repair things when you do. That changes the leadership challenge. Instead of asking, "How do we stop trust ever being damaged?", founders can ask, "Have we built a business that knows how to repair trust when something inevitably goes wrong?"   The one key thing The one key thing from this conversation: if trust matters to the performance and value of your business, stop treating it as an invisible feeling. Measure it, understand what drives it, and build the mechanisms to repair it.   Smart90 / G90 Summit Most founders I speak to feel busy but stuck. Plenty happening, but no real clarity on what matters most this quarter. Here's what more than 500 interviews on ScaleUp Radio have taught me: the founders who scale choose less, and deliver all of it. That's what the G90 Summit is for. A structured half-day where we cut through everything competing for your attention, agree the three to five things that must happen in the next 90 days, and build the rhythm to make sure they do. Quarterly. Virtual. £97 a seat. Smart90.co.uk/summit Scaling up your business isn't easy, and can be a little daunting. Let ScaleUp Radio make it a little easier for you. With guests who have been where you are now, and can offer their thoughts and advice on several aspects of business. ScaleUp Radio is the business podcast you've been waiting for. If you would like to be a guest on ScaleUp Radio, please click here: https://bizsmarts.co.uk/scaleupradio/kevin You can get in touch with Kevin here: [email protected]   Rob can be found here: https://www.drrobmckenna.com/ https://www.wildleaders.org/   Resources: Whole Leaders, Wild Trust by Rob McKenna - https://uk.bookshop.org/p/books/whole-leaders-wild-trust-the-courageous-path-to-personal-relational-and-organizational-change-rob-mckenna/8668b708e4ebdd5a?ean=9781394379279&bkshp-astro=t The Speed of Trust by Stephen M R Covey - https://uk.bookshop.org/p/books/the-speed-of-trust-the-one-thing-that-changes-everything-stephen-m-r-covey/a4121f456343e740?ean=9780743295604&bkshp-astro=t The Fog of Work by Adam Tarnow - https://uk.bookshop.org/p/books/the-fog-of-work-a-simple-approach-to-navigating-the-complexity-of-middle-management-adam-tarnow/6e307d6740dd6cd0?ean=9781394368136&bkshp-astro=t

What would you do differently if you knew from day one that somebody else would eventually need to run your business? In this episode of ScaleUp Radio, I'm joined by Gavin Bell, entrepreneur and founder of Yatta, the paid media agency he deliberately built to be sellable before its acquisition by Velstar in 2024. Gavin's story is particularly interesting because selling Yatta wasn't something that simply happened after years of building the agency. It influenced how he designed the business from the outset. Inspired by Built to Sell, Gavin moved away from building a business around his own personal brand and expertise. Instead, he created packaged services, recurring revenues, repeatable systems and, crucially, a business capable of delivering without him. That meant progressively removing himself from sales and client delivery, bringing in people who could take over those responsibilities and resisting the temptation to maximise his own income at the expense of the value of the company. The result was a business attractive enough to be acquired by Velstar, with Gavin negotiating the original two-year earn-out down to nine months and ultimately leaving after eight. There's an important lesson here for any founder, whether or not you currently intend to sell. The one key thing: build a business that works without you before you need it to work without you. The disciplines that make a company sellable are often the same disciplines that make it scalable: recurring revenue, clear propositions, good people, repeatable systems, healthy profit and reduced dependency on the founder. Today, Gavin is applying some of those lessons to a very different venture. Talo is an online lifestyle pharmacy focused on treatments that people may be less comfortable discussing with their GP. Its longer-term ambition is much bigger: moving towards what Gavin describes as precision health, using diagnostics, personal data and AI to help create increasingly personalised and proactive healthcare. One of the interesting aspects of Talo's approach is that, in a market where technology is often being used to remove human interaction, Gavin is deliberately putting some of it back in. For its weight loss offering, Talo plans an upfront consultation followed by ongoing coaching. The intention is to improve outcomes, create greater trust and tackle the high customer churn seen in a market where customers can easily move between providers and introductory offers. We also explore how AI is changing Gavin's approach to building the business. Rather than spending heavily on developers to test every new idea, Gavin is using AI development tools to create prototypes before passing them to professional developers. That makes experimentation faster and considerably cheaper. But Gavin believes there is a much bigger strategic implication. If AI makes software increasingly quick and inexpensive to reproduce, simply owning proprietary code may become much less of a competitive advantage. The real value could increasingly sit elsewhere: in your customer relationships, proprietary data, distribution, marketing capability and, most importantly, your ability to demonstrate that what you do actually produces results. That is a significant question for founders thinking about where the long-term value of their businesses really lies. In this episode, we discuss: • Why Gavin deliberately designed Yatta to be sold from the beginning • What Built to Sell changed about his approach to entrepreneurship • Why recurring revenue and packaged services helped make Yatta attractive to an acquirer • How he progressively removed himself from sales and client delivery • Why optimising company profit can sometimes matter more than maximising founder income • The hiring constraint that ultimately limited Yatta's growth • How the Velstar acquisition came about • Why Gavin negotiated his earn-out from two years down to nine months • What starting again feels like after successfully exiting a business • Talo's approach to the online pharmacy and weight loss markets • Why adding human coaching can create differentiation in a technology-led market • How Gavin is using AI to dramatically reduce the cost and time involved in prototyping • Why customer data, marketing systems and proven outcomes could become more valuable than proprietary software • Gavin's vision for precision health and more proactive, personalised healthcare • Why Facebook advertising is outperforming Google for Talo • Why successful paid social requires large amounts of creative testing and patience • Why founders need to give marketing channels enough time to learn before deciding they do not work Standout message As technology becomes easier to build, the competitive advantage moves away from the technology itself and towards the customer, the data, the distribution and the outcomes you can prove. That makes this a fascinating conversation not only about selling a business, but about what makes a business valuable in the first place. Feeling busy but stuck? Most founders I speak to feel busy but stuck. Plenty happening, but no real clarity on what matters most this quarter. Here's what more than 500 interviews on this show have taught me: the founders who scale choose less, and deliver all of it. That's what the G90 Summit is for. It's a structured half-day where we cut through everything competing for your attention, agree the three to five things that must happen in the next 90 days, and build the rhythm to make sure they do. Quarterly, virtual, £97 a seat. Smart90.co.uk/summit And if you know somebody with an interesting ScaleUp story who would make a great guest for ScaleUp Radio, you can nominate them for a future episode.   Scaling up your business isn't easy, and can be a little daunting. Let ScaleUp Radio make it a little easier for you. With guests who have been where you are now, and can offer their thoughts and advice on several aspects of business. ScaleUp Radio is the business podcast you've been waiting for. If you would like to be a guest on ScaleUp Radio, please click here: https://bizsmarts.co.uk/scaleupradio/kevin You can get in touch with Kevin here: [email protected]   Gavin can be found here: https://mrgavinbell.com/ https://jointalo.com/   Resources: Built To Sell by John Warrillow - https://uk.bookshop.org/p/books/built-to-sell-creating-a-business-that-can-thrive-without-you-john-warrillow/d0d51f969be59f14?ean=9798256105150&bkshp-astro=t The E-Myth by Michael E Gerber - https://uk.bookshop.org/p/books/the-e-myth-revisited-why-most-small-businesses-don-t-work-and-what-to-do-about-it-michael-e-gerber/dc9f0ce70842d643?ean=9780887307287&bkshp-astro=t Asana - https://asana.com/ Wispr Flow - https://wisprflow.ai/

What makes a business genuinely valuable? For many founders the answer isn't more customers, more turnover or even more profit. It's creating a business that can thrive without depending on them every single day. In this episode Kevin Brent is joined by entrepreneur, investor and business strategist Jake Young to explore why founder dependency is one of the biggest barriers to sustainable growth and successful exits. Jake shares the frameworks he uses with businesses ranging from ambitious SMEs through to organisations preparing for institutional investment and IPOs. From defining your end game through to building systems, governance and teams, this conversation is packed with practical advice for founders who want to scale with purpose. One standout message: You don't build a valuable business by making yourself indispensable. You build it by making the business work without you. In this episode we discuss Why founder liability destroys enterprise value Why you should define your end game before building your strategy The difference between founder led and systems led businesses Jake's Five Pillar "Four Walls" framework for building defensible businesses How the Delegation Matrix helps founders systematically let go Why focusing on outcomes beats micromanaging processes How governance becomes a competitive advantage as businesses grow Lessons from hospitality that apply to every growing business Key Takeaways Founder dependency is expensive If your business cannot operate without you, buyers see risk rather than value. Building systems rather than dependence increases both scalability and enterprise value. Start with the end in mind Whether your goal is an exit, legacy, acquisition or long term ownership, that destination should influence every major strategic decision. Build inside your Four Walls Jake explains his framework covering: Market Fit Brand Operating Model Profit Architecture Human Capital Together these create a business that competitors find difficult to copy. Delegate intelligently Use teachability versus business impact to decide what should leave your desk first. Delegation is not about lowering standards. It is about freeing founders to focus where they create the greatest value. About Jake Young Jake Young is an entrepreneur, investor and adviser with businesses spanning hospitality consultancy, governance, branding and consumer products. His portfolio includes: The FoodGuys Samari One of One Chaocello Across these ventures Jake focuses on helping organisations become scalable, investable and strategically valuable. Resources Find out more about Jake via LinkedIn. Discover more ScaleUp Radio episodes at smart90.co.uk. Most founders I speak to feel busy but stuck. Plenty happening, but no real clarity on what matters most this quarter. Here's what more than 500 interviews on this show have taught me: the founders who scale choose less, and deliver all of it. That's what the G90 Summit is for. A structured half day where we cut through everything competing for your attention, agree the three to five things that must happen in the next 90 days, and build the rhythm to make sure they do. Quarterly, virtual, £97 a seat. Visit Smart90.co.uk/summit.   Scaling up your business isn't easy, and can be a little daunting. Let ScaleUp Radio make it a little easier for you. With guests who have been where you are now, and can offer their thoughts and advice on several aspects of business. ScaleUp Radio is the business podcast you've been waiting for. If you would like to be a guest on ScaleUp Radio, please click here: https://bizsmarts.co.uk/scaleupradio/kevin You can get in touch with Kevin here: [email protected]   Jake can be found here: [email protected] https://thefoodguys.co/ https://symari.com/   Resources: Diary of a CEO Podcast - https://stevenbartlett.com/doac/ Alex and Leila Hormozi - https://www.acquisition.com/ Jocko Willink - https://jocko.com/ The Agentic Enterprise by Martin Hofman - https://amzn.eu/d/0iI1unNO Novagentica - https://novagentica.com/

Making decisions as a founder or leader is rarely about having perfect information. In this episode, Kevin Brent is joined by David Mansfield, strategist, board adviser and researcher into strategic decision making, to explore why so many intelligent leadership teams still make poor strategic choices and what business owners can do to dramatically improve the quality of their decisions. Drawing on doctoral research and decades of board experience, David explains why the process behind a decision matters far more than simply reaching an answer. He shares practical techniques that help leaders combine intuition with evidence, avoid common thinking traps and create greater buy in from their teams. One standout message from this episode is simple but powerful: Validate intuition with data, and validate data with intuition. In this episode you'll discover Why nearly half of strategic decisions fail despite being made by experienced leaders Why the way you make decisions is more important than the decision itself David's developing nine step framework for making better strategic decisions How to slow down decisions without slowing down your business Why founders often become victims of the qualities that made them successful The importance of challenging assumptions before committing to action Why communication can be the difference between success and failure at board level How to recruit advisers and non executives without creating long term governance problems Why every scaling business should invest in strategic finance earlier than they think The "Boat Rule" for keeping meetings focused on what really moves the business forward Why chasing every opportunity can become one of the biggest barriers to sustainable growth Key takeaways One of David's biggest lessons came from serving as a non executive director of Game Group, where concerns over cash flow were dismissed until the business eventually collapsed. Looking back, David realised that while the analysis was correct, the communication wasn't persuasive enough. That experience sparked years of research into how leaders actually make decisions under pressure. For founders, David highlights one recurring challenge. The resilience, determination and stubbornness needed to build a business can eventually become a weakness if it prevents leaders from listening to advice or recognising when circumstances have changed. He also makes a compelling case for building financial capability much earlier by progressing from bookkeeper, to fractional CFO, to full time finance director as the business grows. Clean financial information enables better decisions, stronger investor confidence and healthier growth. The one key thing Great strategic decisions aren't driven by instinct or data alone. The best leaders deliberately test each against the other before acting. About Smart90 Most founders I speak to feel busy but stuck. Plenty happening, but no real clarity on what matters most this quarter. Here's what more than 500 interviews on this show have taught me: the founders who scale choose less, and deliver all of it. That's what the G90 Summit is for. A structured half day where we cut through everything competing for your attention, agree the three to five things that must happen in the next 90 days, and build the rhythm to make sure they do. Quarterly, virtual, £97 a seat. smart90.co.uk/summit   Scaling up your business isn't easy, and can be a little daunting. Let ScaleUp Radio make it a little easier for you. With guests who have been where you are now, and can offer their thoughts and advice on several aspects of business. ScaleUp Radio is the business podcast you've been waiting for. If you would like to be a guest on ScaleUp Radio, please click here: https://bizsmarts.co.uk/scaleupradio/kevin You can get in touch with Kevin here: [email protected]   David can be found here: https://www.linkedin.com/in/davidjmansfield/ https://davidjmansfield.com/   Resources: What They Don't Teach You at Harvard Business School by Mark McCormack - https://uk.bookshop.org/p/books/what-they-don-t-teach-you-at-harvard-business-school-mark-h-mccormack/e52571d3ef38f282?ean=9781781253397&bkshp-astro=t How to Win Friends and Influence People by Dale Carnegie - https://uk.bookshop.org/p/books/how-to-win-friends-and-influence-people-dale-carnegie/82760854e5e9eaa2?ean=9789373070667&bkshp-astro=t Never Split the Difference by Chris Voss - https://uk.bookshop.org/p/books/never-split-the-difference-negotiating-as-if-your-life-depended-on-it-chris-voss/14cac2e5f5322728?ean=9781847941497&bkshp-astro=t

Growing a business isn't just about strategy, systems or structure. As organisations grow, founders often discover that the biggest obstacle isn't the market. It's themselves. In this episode of ScaleUp Radio, Kevin Brent is joined by Peter Rimmer, founder of Tusk Consulting, to explore why scaling successfully requires founders to evolve alongside their businesses. Peter shares why organisation design should start with people rather than process, how founders can overcome the fear of letting go, and why creating a culture where both hiring and leaving are positive experiences is essential for long term growth. One standout message from the conversation: "The biggest barriers to growth are often the conversations leadership teams aren't having."   In this episode we discuss: Why organisation design must combine strategy, operating model and human dynamics. The warning signs that your current business model has reached the end of its first growth curve. Why founders often struggle to let go of the approaches that originally made them successful. How to build the confidence to recruit for the business you want, not just the one you have today. The transition from being the person with all the answers to becoming a leader who enables others to think. How Nancy Klein's Thinking Environment helps leadership teams make better decisions together. Why culture should actively manage both successful recruitment and positive exits. How a clear Employee Value Proposition creates trust from day one. Why former employees can become some of your strongest ambassadors. Peter's own entrepreneurial journey from HR into organisation design consultancy.   About Peter Rimmer Peter Rimmer is the founder of Tusk Consulting, a consultancy specialising in human first organisation design. Working primarily with charities, social enterprises and purpose led organisations ranging from around 50 to more than 5,000 employees, Peter helps leadership teams align strategy, structure and culture so organisations can grow sustainably. Rather than relying purely on data or process redesign, Peter focuses on the quality of leadership conversations and the human dynamics that ultimately determine whether strategy succeeds.   The one key thing... Scaling doesn't require founders to have more control. It requires them to build the confidence to let go, develop others and create an organisation that can succeed without depending on them.   Smart90 G90 Summit Most founders I speak to feel busy but stuck; plenty happening, but not always clear on what genuinely matters most this quarter. If that's you, the G90 Summit is worth a look. A structured half day where we work through everything competing for your attention, get clear on the three to five things that must happen in the next 90 days, then commit to them and build the system to make sure they actually happen. Quarterly, virtual and just £97 per seat. Find out more at Smart90.co.uk/summit.   Connect If you enjoyed this episode, make sure you subscribe to ScaleUp Radio wherever you listen to podcasts. If you know someone with an inspiring ScaleUp story, we'd love to hear from them. You can nominate a future guest via the details in the ScaleUp Radio show notes.   Scaling up your business isn't easy, and can be a little daunting. Let ScaleUp Radio make it a little easier for you. With guests who have been where you are now, and can offer their thoughts and advice on several aspects of business. ScaleUp Radio is the business podcast you've been waiting for. If you would like to be a guest on ScaleUp Radio, please click here: https://bizsmarts.co.uk/scaleupradio/kevin You can get in touch with Kevin here: [email protected]   Peter can be found here: https://tuskconsulting.co.uk/ [email protected]   Resources: Range by David Epstein - https://uk.bookshop.org/p/books/range-how-generalists-triumph-in-a-specialized-world-david-epstein/35c1839e592e618a?ean=9781035053049&bkshp-astro=t

Growing a business beyond founder-led sales is one of the biggest challenges many SMEs face. In this special ScaleUp Club edition of ScaleUp Radio, Kevin Brent is joined once again by returning guest Dhanushka Tennakoon from RE24 for an interactive Q&A session exploring one of the biggest questions facing growing businesses: How do you create a predictable flow of new opportunities instead of relying on referrals and hope? Alongside the discussion, Kevin also shares this month's AI Pulse update, covering one of the most talked about AI stories of recent weeks and what it means for business leaders. Whether you're approaching your first £1 million in turnover or looking to build a more scalable commercial engine, this session is packed with practical ideas you can implement immediately. In this episode AI Pulse: What happened when Anthropic's latest language model was reportedly withdrawn shortly after launch and what founders should take from the rapid pace of AI development. Why so many businesses become trapped by founder dependency. Understanding Aaron Ross's Seeds, Nets and Spears framework for predictable lead generation. Why referrals alone rarely create a scalable business. How targeted outreach can open entirely new markets. The importance of balancing new customer acquisition with growing existing client relationships. Why choosing the right niche can transform growth. How RE24 pivoted from multiple industries to becoming specialists in data centres. Practical advice for reducing reliance on founder-led sales. Live coaching with ScaleUp Club members on applying the framework to their own businesses. Key discussion points AI Pulse Kevin shares the latest developments from the AI world, including the reported security concerns surrounding Anthropic's latest model and what this tells us about the extraordinary pace of AI capability. Rather than simply chasing every new tool, founders should focus on understanding where AI can genuinely improve decision making, productivity and business performance. Seeds, Nets and Spears The central discussion explores Aaron Ross's well-known framework: Seeds High trust opportunities generated through referrals, introductions and existing relationships. Nets Scalable marketing activities including content, SEO, social media and broader awareness campaigns. Spears Highly targeted outreach aimed at carefully researched organisations where there is a strong strategic fit. The key message is that healthy businesses develop all three rather than relying on a single source of leads. Why niche matters Dhanushka shares RE24's journey from trying to serve multiple industries to focusing specifically on data centres. That decision created: a clearly defined customer profile faster buying decisions stronger market positioning more effective sales conversations predictable growth opportunities Rather than chasing every opportunity, focusing on one market allowed the business to build genuine expertise and competitive advantage. Live ScaleUp Club coaching A highlight of the session is the discussion with Paul Rhodes from Green Gorilla Automation. Like many growing businesses, sales currently depend heavily on the founder and warm introductions. Together, the group explores how carefully researched "Spears" could help create a more repeatable sales process while reducing founder dependency. Practical actions After listening, consider these three actions: Review where every lead has come from over the last six months. Categorise your activities into Seeds, Nets and Spears. Identify one repeatable activity within each category and commit to executing it consistently. One standout message Predictable growth doesn't come from doing more marketing. It comes from building a balanced system that consistently creates new opportunities. The one key thing If your pipeline depends mainly on referrals or the founder, your business isn't yet scalable. Creating a deliberate mix of Seeds, Nets and Spears is one of the fastest ways to build predictable growth.   Smart90 Most founders I speak to feel busy but stuck; plenty happening, but not always clear on what genuinely matters most this quarter. If that's you, the G90 Summit is worth a look. A structured half day where we work through everything competing for your attention, get clear on the three to five things that must happen in the next 90 days, then commit to them and build the system to make sure they actually happen. Quarterly, virtual, £97 a seat. Smart90.co.uk/summit