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John Mackey, CEO of The Mackey Group, is back for his yearly state-of-the-industry catch-up with Drew. John advises fire and life safety owners and PE-backed platforms on M&A and growth, and his Mackey Report pulls industry research and investor-conference analysis into one set of benchmarks for what good looks like in this business. The M&A story has a new layer. The platforms that were acquiring five years ago are mega platforms now, and a second tier of companies founded eight to twelve years ago is on the same path, with many preparing for an exit in the next 18 to 36 months. By John's count about 85 percent of the market is always either growing or getting ready for a transaction. One analyst he cites in the report asks what inning M&A is in, and John puts it in the middle of the game. Newer contractors are building differently. They pick their field service software and ERP first and grow service before installation, the reverse of the playbook from six or seven years ago. That opens up the tech stack. QuickBooks runs out of room once you need job costing, the big platforms are struggling to choose between NetSuite and SAP, and John's tech stack guide comes down to one rule: understand your workflows and let them drive the software. Drew adds the piece many field service tools don't fully cover, inspection and compliance, and makes the case for a good implementation partner. The back half turns to labor. Technicians with 40 years or more in the field are retiring, and John sees AI shortening how long it takes a new tech to learn the job, as long as they still get hands-on time pulling wire and hanging pipe. He came back from NFPA without seeing a new widget, while hazards like storage at 50 feet, lithium-ion batteries, and data centers keep growing. CEOs at the bigger platforms tell him that without data centers they wouldn't have any construction right now, and he counts 140 data center permits pulled in Texas alone. They wrap with a pitch for the trades and the fall show schedule. The Mackey Group: https://mackeygroupllc.com  The Mackey Report: https://mackeygroupllc.com/the-mackey-report  Inspect Point: https://www.inspectpoint.com  Timestamps 0:00 Cold open 0:18 Intro: episode 99 with John Mackey 2:16 John's advisory work doubled after NFPA 3:33 Mega platforms and the second tier forming under them 4:21 How much M&A runway is left, and what inning we're in 5:58 New contractors start with service and technology 7:09 ERP, the tech stack, and letting your workflows lead 11:32 Where inspection and compliance fit 12:31 Inside the Mackey Report 14:38 The labor gap and AI on the jobsite 17:39 AI in technician onboarding, and why field time still matters 19:51 What was missing from the OEMs at NFPA 22:02 Data centers, pharma, and 140 permits in Texas 26:17 Why it's a good time to get into the trades 27:22 Fall shows and the road to episode 100 31:17 Outro

Grant Lobdell is back on the show at a moment when the whole industry is paying attention. The fire at Gabriel House in Fall River, Massachusetts put a hard question in front of every contractor: how do recalled sprinkler heads stay in buildings for decades, and whose job is it to catch them? Grant runs the lab side of Dyne Fire Protection Labs, now an NFPA Global Solutions company, and his answer starts with an honest observation: contractors handle the routine work well. It's the tests that come due 20 or 50 years after install that fall to the wayside. Dyne's whole stance is that the easier the test is to do, the more likely it gets done. From there the conversation goes inside NFPA 25. Grant walks through how testing intervals actually get set and why they keep changing edition to edition: dry sprinklers moving from 10 to 15 to 20 years as failure-rate data came in, quick response intervals stretching as the technology proved itself. The committee isn't trying to make life difficult. The intervals are a data-driven decision, and the data keeps moving. Then the hard part. Recalled O-ring sprinklers are not specifically called out in the standard today. As Grant puts it, if you hand him an O-ring sprinkler and it passes the test, it technically meets the standard, even though the failure rate says otherwise. He expects that to be a hot button in the next revision cycle. The codes, as the saying goes, are written in blood. The back half is a live walkthrough: how Inspect Point structures sprinkler head data down to the individual head, tracks the right test frequency for whatever NFPA 25 edition each building is on, projects what's coming due across every building in a portfolio, and submits heads to Dyne for testing in a couple of clicks. Grant's team sends a kit, you fill the box, and the lab report lands in your inbox.

Drew brings two of Inspect Point's own onto the show this time: John Ryan, a senior solution engineer who came up through the product and engineering side, and Jimmy Snowden, who leads the support team and spent years as a technician and inspection manager before joining the company. If you've caught their monthly customer session, "Coffee with Jimmy and John," this is the same back and forth, now for the industry at large. The heart of the conversation is data. Everybody is talking about AI, but Jimmy and John make the case that the payoff depends on what you capture and how. Plenty of companies record building data. The advantage shows up when you capture clean, standardized data at the system and asset level: manufacturers, model numbers, recalls, test dates, how an asset has performed over time. Lock that in and you can ask real questions, like how many buildings had an extinguisher that wasn't inspected last year, and start making projections instead of digging through PDFs and spreadsheets that were never built to be searched. From there they get into the new features built on that system and asset model: fully custom question sets, components and attributes you can take as granular as you want, barcoding down to an individual cylinder or valve, fire pump curves, and the AI agents on the way. The back half turns to codes and compliance. John talks through healthcare and the Joint Commission's January 2026 change that simplified fire-safety documentation, and why a transition everyone braced for went off quietly. Jimmy walks through the 2026 edition of NFPA 25, including a residential sprinkler head testing gap he spotted and ran past CASI, NFPA LiNK's AI assistant. And he closes with a sharp theory on why NFPA 25 is the most complex standard in the trade: a sprinkler system is full of water, and water can destroy property the same way fire can, so you're protecting against both. Join Drew, John, and Jimmy for a real look at where fire protection data, AI, and the codes are all heading. Topics covered: "Coffee with Jimmy and John" and how it started Why no two fire protection companies do the job the same way How fire protection differs from other trades: each system, its own code Why system and asset data, not just building data, is what makes AI useful Custom question sets, components, attributes, and barcoding everything Putting AI to work: prompts, projections, and agents on the way Healthcare and the Joint Commission's January 2026 change Inside the 2026 edition of NFPA 25 and a residential head testing gap Why NFPA 25 is so complex: protecting against fire and water   0:00 What's in this episode1:44 Getting John and Jimmy on the mic2:16 Meet John Ryan3:33 Meet Jimmy Snowden4:27 Favorite systems: dry systems and valves5:32 "Coffee with Jimmy and John," their monthly customer session10:13 No two fire protection companies are alike11:07 Why fire protection is different: each system, its own code14:13 The real AI unlock is system and asset data15:28 New features: custom question sets, components, and barcoding17:48 Putting AI to work: prompts, projections, and agents23:50 Healthcare and the Joint Commission24:24 The January 2026 change that simplified documentation31:16 Inside the 2026 edition of NFPA 2532:12 The residential head testing gap (and asking CASI)34:22 Why NFPA 25 is so complex: fire and water36:15 Wrap-up

Shawn Mahoney of NFPA's Technical Services team joins Drew for his fourth time on The Fire Protection Podcast, and this one covers a lot of ground before landing on a problem the industry keeps stepping over: construction-site fires. You've seen the headlines. A light wood-frame building goes up mid-construction, and the whole thing is gone, like the Denver complex that took a 238-unit building with it, or the South Park fire in North Carolina that killed two workers. Shawn's point is blunt: we already have the standard to prevent this. It's NFPA 241, the Standard for Safeguarding Construction, Alteration, and Demolition Operations, and it's been around since 1930. It's referenced by NFPA 1, NFPA 101, the IBC, and the IFC. "The biggest issue is people just aren't using it," Shawn says. The code isn't broken. Enforcement is. Drew and Shawn dig into why adoption is so piecemeal, what real enforcement looks like (Boston shuts a site down if the fire prevention program manager isn't there), the legislative push after the North Carolina fire, and what the Fire Prevention Program Manager actually has to do day to day. Before that, they preview the NFPA Conference & Expo in Las Vegas, including Drew's Tuesday session on AI and fire protection, how AI has reshaped the codes world through NFPA LiNK, CASI, and the new Notebooks feature, and why data centers and small nuclear reactors are creating fire-protection problems in towns that have never seen anything like them. Join Drew for Episode 96 for a real conversation about why the standards we already have only matter if someone enforces them. Topics covered: Inside the NFPA Conference & Expo in Las Vegas AI in fire protection: NFPA LiNK, CASI, and NFPA Insights LiNK Notebooks for codes, checklists, and impairment permits Data centers and small nuclear reactors as emerging fire risks Light wood-frame construction fires and why they're catastrophic NFPA 241 and the enforcement gap The Fire Prevention Program Manager role   Timestamps 00:00 – Introduction 02:27 – Inside the NFPA Conference & Expo 05:35 – AI in Fire Protection 07:46 – Data Centers & Small Nuclear Reactors 09:13 – NFPA LiNK, CASI & NFPA Insights 12:00 – LiNK Notebooks 15:21 – NFPA 241: A Standard Since 1930 16:50 – Why Wood-Frame Construction Fires Are Catastrophic 19:07 – Referenced Everywhere, Enforced Almost Nowhere 20:36 – How Boston Enforces 241 25:54 – The Fire Prevention Program Manager Role 28:33 – Educational Videos & NFPA's YouTube Channels 30:23 – Conclusion

Levi Rock got laid off for three weeks when COVID hit, and it changed how he thought about job security. In 2020 he started Red Seal Fire Protection in Windsor, Ontario, and grew it to 17 employees in five years by keeping it simple: show up when you say you will, turn reports and deficiency quotes around within 48 hours, and get out of the way so customers never have to think about their fire protection. In this episode, Levi joins Drew Slocum to talk about building a service-first fire protection business. They cover the recurring-revenue membership model behind it, why he says no to most new-installation work, how Red Seal uses social media to educate property managers and recruit fitters, and how Inspect Point replaced their PDF forms with consistent, faster reporting. They also get into the gap between NFPA 25 and the Ontario Fire Code, why contractors and AHJs need to communicate more, and why human expertise still beats generic AI on fire code. Episode #95. The Fire Protection Podcast, powered by Inspect Point.   Timestamps: 00:00 Intro 01:31 Welcome and why Levi's on the show 02:56 From sprinkler fitter to founder during COVID 07:50 The edge: speed, communication, 48-hour turnarounds 11:30 Moving off PDF forms to Inspect Point 13:35 Capturing asset data to power AI tools 15:42 The membership model and predictable budgets 20:02 Marketing fire protection and recruiting techs 23:32 The AI content problem and fire code accuracy 25:54 The fire protection education gap and training AHJs 28:34 NFPA 25 vs the Ontario Fire Code (and ULC 536/537) 33:11 Training the next generation 34:13 What's next for Red Seal 37:19 Wrap-up

Ray Fremont Jr., president of General Air Products, joins Drew to talk about the air supply side of dry pipe sprinkler systems. General Air Products has been building air compressors for fire sprinkler systems since the 1960s, and the Fremont family has been in the compressed air business since the 1930s. Ray covers how dry system air supply has changed over the last century: plant air compressors and schedule 40 pipe, the shift to thin-wall steel, nitrogen generators, and a newer vapor corrosion inhibitor technology called Vapor Pipe Shield that creates a molecular barrier on the inside of the pipe. They also dig into some real problems: most dry systems leak well beyond what NFPA 25 allows, jurisdictions are a decade behind on code adoption, and air compressor maintenance still gets skipped. Ray previews a new digital monitoring device that tracks compressor cycling and flags system issues before they turn into failures. It's the kind of predictive data the sprinkler side has never had.

Dr. Roger Reiswig, Industry Liaison at Johnson Controls, joins Drew for a conversation spanning nearly 40 years of fire alarm industry experience. Roger started as a Simplex technician in 1986 and now represents JCI across NFPA, UL, FM, and international organizations including the European Alarm Association (Uralarm). Topics include how countries outside the US often adopt NFPA codes faster than US states, the differences between European EN standards and NFPA/UL requirements, Europe's mandatory smoke detector replacement cycles, the new 40-foot ceiling allowance for smoke detectors in NFPA 72, remote and automated inspection technology and its UL listing challenges, how UL and NFPA standards push each other forward, the birth of NFPA 3 and NFPA 4 for integrated testing (now showing up in building codes), Canada's ULC certification model, and the history of carbon monoxide detection moving from NFPA 720 into NFPA 72.   Timestamps: 0:00 - Cold open 0:27 - Episode intro 1:36 - Drew and Roger connect 2:14 - Global adoption of NFPA codes 3:39 - How aggressively other countries adopt new editions 5:03 - Why US states are slow to adopt 7:51 - Roger's career: Simplex technician to JCI liaison 10:15 - European standards (EN) vs NFPA 11:39 - Europe's smoke detector replacement requirements 14:15 - Smoke detector placement at 40-foot ceilings 17:08 - Remote and automated inspection technology 20:34 - UL listing challenges for remote testing 23:45 - Mass notification: UL 864 to UL 2572 24:34 - The 2010 NFPA 72 scope change 26:00 - NFPA 3 and NFPA 4 for integrated testing 29:49 - Canada's ULC standards vs US 32:13 - Carbon monoxide detection in NFPA 72 36:52 - How CO detectors are tested 39:11 - Wrap-up   Learn more about Inspect Point: https://www.inspectpoint.com Request a demo: https://www.inspectpoint.com/get-a-demo LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/inspect-point YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@inspectpoint

Bob Marshall, CEO of Whisker Labs, joins Drew Slocum on Episode 92 to discuss Ting, the IoT sensor that monitors home electrical systems for arcing hazards before they become fires. In this episode: How Ting takes 30 million electrical measurements per second from a single outlet The on-device and cloud AI that detects electrical arcing using image recognition 26,000+ hazards identified (and growing at 30 per day) Real data from Hurricane Helene, the LA wildfires, and Winter Storm Fern Why outlets, extension cords, and holiday lights are the most common hazards How 35+ insurance partners provide Ting to homeowners for free The 1.3 million sensor network monitoring the entire U.S. utility grid What this means for the fire protection industry and commercial applications  Bob also shares the personal story behind founding Whisker Labs and how their fire safety team works directly with homeowners and electricians to find and fix problems before they cause fires.

0:00 - Paper documents, hydrant flow testing, and lost inspection data 04:59 - Deficiencies are not a gotcha game 8:47 - Ontario Fire Code limits and NFPA 25 enforcement gaps 15:23 - Strategic planning and involving Al 20:20 - 2025 highlights, consistency, and "what I'd do differently" 24:05 - Current state of the fire protection industry 40:27 - Notable fire incidents & what we learned from real sprinkler activations 46:20 - Closing thoughts and Chris's podcast

Timestamps: 00:00 Why 2025 fire protection data matters 02:47 2025 fire protection industry report preview 06:28 Why fire protection businesses need a tech stack 08:42 Inspection dollars vs service proposals 11:46 Deficiency approvals and compliance platforms 17:05 Common fire inspection deficiencies 24:53 NFPA questions and inspection data quality 29:42 Growth of regional fire protection companies 36:40 2026 outlook and Al in fire inspection

In Episode 89, Drew Slocum welcomes Scott Reynolds, Co-Founder and CEO of UpCodes, for a deep dive into the future of building codes, AI-driven code research, and the growing need for accessible, reliable, and continually updated code information across the built environment. Scott shares the origin story of UpCodes, starting with his early career in architecture—working internationally in Hong Kong and later in New York City—where he experienced firsthand how difficult it is to navigate complex, fragmented, and frequently changing building and fire codes. That frustration eventually led Scott and his brother (a software engineer) to create UpCodes—a platform designed to unify, structure, and simplify access to codes and amendments across all 50 states and hundreds of local jurisdictions. Episode 89 provides an insightful look at how technology, transparency, and collaboration can reshape fire protection, design, and construction for the better.

Timestamps: 00:00 - Introducing today's guest 01:57 - Launching the first Al agent 04:19 - How AI adoption changes business processes 06:58 - Code complexity in fire protection 09:30 - Generative Al vs agentic Al explained 12:10 - How data supports better decisions 14:39 - FireCAD design assistant and design workflow gains 18:56 - Passion, innovation, and industry growth 19:49 - OEMs, contractors, and AI-enabled data flow 25:24 - Using AI for simple tasks and avoiding hallucinations 29:45 - The rapid shift toward AI in fire protection 32:02- Favorite Al-themed films 34:35 - Closing thoughts and future direction

In this episode of The Fire Protection Podcast, host Drew Slocum sits down with Grant Lobdell, President of Dyne Fire Protection Labs, to discuss one of the most pressing issues facing the fire protection industry today—sprinkler testing and system maintenance. Grant shares insights on Dyne’s acquisition by NFPA Global Solutions and how this new initiative supports NFPA’s life safety mission. The conversation takes a serious turn as Drew and Grant unpack the tragic Fall River, Massachusetts fire, where recalled O-ring sprinkler heads failed to activate—an incident underscoring the critical importance of regular inspection, testing, and maintenance under NFPA 25. They also dive into the new partnership between Inspect Point and Dyne, designed to streamline how contractors and building owners identify, test, and replace aging or defective sprinklers. The episode closes with updates from Dyne’s lab on the transition from fluorinated foams to fluorine-free alternatives, and what that means for contractors navigating environmental regulations and system performance.   Timestamps 00:00 Intro and Episode Overview 02:21 Meet Grant Lobdell and Dyne Labs 07:32 O-Ring Recalls and Failure Rates 11:15 NFPA 25 Testing Requirements 18:00 Simplifying Inspections Through Partnerships 21:07 Testing Cycles and Code Changes 23:42 Interpreting Results and Owner Duties 27:21 Foam Systems and Regulatory Updates 34:48 Closing Remarks

00:00 Introduction and Guest Welcome 02:15 Jason’s Background and GEM Systems 03:40 Integrating Design, Engineering, and Distribution 07:47 Navigating COVID-19 and Supply Chain Shifts 12:06 Expanding into Sprinkler Design 15:20 AI, Data Centers & Code Shifts 17:44 Connectivity, Safety & Working Together 22:17 Codes, Compliance, and Public Safety 23:58 Efficiency, Software, and Real-Time Solutions 26:22 From Soccer Fields to Fire Systems 28:05 Business Growth, ERP, and Integration Challenges 32:10 Training, Partnerships, and Future Initiatives 34:25 Where to Find GEM Systems and Closing Remarks

00:00 Introduction & Conference Recap 03:50 Jim's Background, NFPA's History and Mission 10:49 Public Awareness & "Code for Every Moment" Campaign 14:15 NFPA's Fire & Life Safety Ecosystem 16:18 Reverse Renovations with Jonathan Scott 18:23 Real-World Code Application & Lessons from Tragedies 21:54 How Codes and Standards Are Written 24:43 Code Update Cycles and Politics 28:58 Making Codes Approachable and Industry Sustainability 39:08 Al's Role and Risks in Fire Protection 43:12 The Nuances of Codes, Standards, and Al 46:52 Closing Thoughts and Passion for the Job