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We welcome back Dr. Kym Vanderbilt of Lehman College, this time joined by her former students, Kelsey Nova and Cyndhia Silvero. We discuss how Dr. Vanderbilt’s graduate students create case studies based on ethical challenges they themselves have faced. Ms. Nova and Ms. Silvero share their own case studies. We also discuss the ongoing struggle for fair compensation for early childhood educators, especially assistant teachers and education directors. Overview 00:15-00:40 Intros 00:40-02:26 Objectives in assigning scenarios of ethically complex situations 02:26-05:06 Kelsey’s ethical dilemma scenario 05:06-06:14 Potential solutions 06:14-08:13 Cyndhia’s ethical dilemma scenario 08:13-09:14 Improving children’s experiences at more elite schools 09:14-10:37 Making schools more sensitive to cultural diversity 10:37-14:51 Does the State encourage teacher ed classes that discuss ethical issues 14:51-15:25 Penalty Kick video promo 15:25-17:00 Codes of ethics 17:00-23:28 Issues to resolve for high quality early childhood programs 23:28-26:55 Special ed issues 26:55-28:58 Why do these issues exist? 28:58-32:52 Denials/evaluations 32:52-39:50 Issues for early childhood staff as employees:              Autonomy vs compliance, staff pay and disparities 39:50-42:38 “Making this a career that people can stay in.” 42:38-43:50 Outro   Transcript Click here to see the full transcription of this episode.  Soundtrack by Poddington Bear

Jon talks with Dr. Beverly Falk of the High Quality Learning Project, Lauren Monaco, New York City pre-K teacher, and experienced educators Gil Schmerler and Renee Dinnerstein. They discuss the centrality of play to children’s development as confirmed by recent research on how the brain works. A “play-in” in Manhattan calls for greater emphasis on play in early childhood classes. Overview 00:15-01:17 Intros01:17-02:53 Play’s defining features02:53-03:22 Defining early childhood03:22-08:46 How children learn and develop08:46-11:46 How central has play been historically to early childhood education11:46-24:15 Conflict between free play and academics in the early childhood education field24:15-28:36 Current status of play in early childhood education in NYS and NYC28:36-29:10 Penalty Kick video promo29:10-31:36 Patterns in community-based centers and schools31:36-36:06 What should NYS and NYC do to reinstitute proper levels of play?36:06-39:41 NYCplays.org: Organizing: How listeners can get involved, 9/26 Play-in39:41-41:08 Importance of public/education officials speaking up41:08-42:07 Play and explicit literacy instruction should be paired42:07-44:37 Parents getting mixed messages44:37-45:47 You can’t rush neurological development45:47- Outro Transcript Click here to see the full transcription of this episode.  References Protectors of Play (POP) website: nycplays.org Join NYC Plays’ free, all-ages Play-In with games, activities, and advocacy for play in schools: September 26, 12–2 pm, at Manny Cantor Center (197 East Broadway, 6th floor, NYC). Register here! The High Quality Early Learning Project (Podcast) February 20, 2026: NYC Kindergarteners are Being Diagnosed with Play Deprivation & We Can Change It (Podcast) February 27, 2026: The Proposal to Fix Kindergarten that NYC's Mayor Needs to Hear Renee Dinnerstein's book "Choice Time: How to Deepen Learning Through Inquiry and Play" Soundtrack by Poddington Bear

We share brief presentations from the fifth “Global Saturday Salons” that Ethical Schools is sponsoring with three international partners. Nando Rodriguez is the Senior Manager for Environmental Programming at the Brotherhood/Sister Sol (BroSis) in Harlem, NYC. Camila Salcedo, 16, is a sophomore at Thurgood Marshall Academy, and Elias DeLeon, 17, is a junior at KIPP Charter School. Both have been members of the BroSis community for several years. Together, they explore what happens when young people are trusted with real responsibility, meaningful relationships, and hands-on experiences in nature. This salon series, Learning to Citizen: Tales of Youth Voice, Agency, and Care, honors learners and educators who are already practicing care, enacting citizenship, and learning how to regenerate their communities and their world. Discover more at edfortheworldwewant.net. Transcription Click here to see the full description of this episode.  References To view Nando's slides presented during the Salon, [access the presentation here]. Want the full conversation?  Watch the complete Salon, including the plenary session, on YouTube. Soundtrack by Poddington Bear.

Jon speaks with Dr. David Penberg, who ran the Liberty  Partnership Program at Bank Street College in the 1990s, and two of the participants, Madelyn Baez, and Tara Crichlow. Three decades later, Madelyn, Tara, and David explain how the program changed the trajectory of their lives. The Liberty Partnership was created as a college prep intervention for underserved and marginalized middle school students.   For the participants, it was a safe place of "uncomfortable empowerment" where their opinions were taken seriously in a simultaneously supportive and challenging environment. Overview 00:00-00:45 Intro 00:45-01:56 Liberty Partnership Program (LPP) origin and description 01:56-03:36 What LPP felt like to Madelyn and Tara 03:36-07:03 LPP structure and goals 07:03-09:40 How Madelyn and Tara joined 09:40-14:42 How experiences in the program were different from school 14:42-19:10 Environmental conversations 19:10-19:24 Trip to China 19:24-20:49 Asset-based program; not about “fixing” the young people 20:49-23:03 Opportunities and relationships 23:03-26:04 “Uncomfortable empowerment” 26:04-26:50 Options, opportunities, exposure, experience 26:50-30:37 Bank Street as a place of safety and empowerment during time of demonization  of young people of color after Central Park jogger case 30:37-35:03 Impact on students’ relationships with families and friends 35:03-37:02 Impact on David’s life 37:02-37:52 Remembering youths who died 37:52-40:51 The larger Bank Street environment 40:51-42:15 The “pure love” of the LPP community 42:15- Outro Transcript Click here to see the full transcription of this episode.  Soundtrack by Poddington Bear

We share brief presentations from the fourth "Global Saturday Salons” that Ethical Schools is sponsoring with three international partners. Dr. Benjamin Freud is the Strategic Lead for Regenerative Education at the Green School Bali, Manon Tiange is a Grade 12 student mapping labor invisibility and systemic inequality in Bali, and Scarlett Gonella is a Grade 12 student investigating plastic pollution and advocating for clean water access in Indonesia. They talked about an educational culture rooted in contribution to community. Learners are trusted to ask difficult questions, collaborate across generations, and imagine reform at the highest levels. This salon series is called Learning to Citizen: Tales of Youth Voices, Agency, and Care. Our goal is to honor learners and teachers who are already doing the work practicing care, enacting citizenship, and learning how to regenerate their worlds. Discover more and join us on May 30th to learn with members of The Brotherhood Sister Sol: edfortheworldwewant.net

Dr. Chantal Francois and Dr. Jen McLaughlin Cahill, co-authors of Identity-Affirming Literacies in Schools, discuss their time at the school they call Pearl Street Collaborative, a progressive secondary school on Manhattan’s Lower East Side that prioritizes teacher inquiry and collaboration. Schedules include time for teachers to meet frequently with grade and content colleagues. Drawing on the work of Freire and Lilia Bartolomé, Drs. Francois and McLaughlin Cahill used literature to support students' identities, including by integrating an LGBTQ+ focus into English classes.   Overview 00:00-00:52 Intros 00:52-03:36 Humanizing pedagogy 03:36-04:44 Relationships and humanizing pedagogy 04:44-07:35 Scheduling facilitating creation and maintenance of faculty relationships 07:35-10:04 Collaboration as modeling for students 10:04-10:21 Pearl Street Collaborative 10:21-13:24 Literacy as more than reading 13:24-18:53 Reading and teaching as political 18:53-23:17 Mission statement as a meaningful document 23:17-31:23 Structuring literacy instruction around independent reading and reading whole books 31:23-36:44 LGBTQ+ identify-affirming literacies 36:44-40:34 Impact on students of LGBTQ+ focus 40:34- Outro References Book Identity-Affirming Literacies in Schools by Dr. Chantal Francois and Dr. Jen McLaughlin Cahill: buy it on Routledge or find it on Amazon Article by  Dr. Lilia Bartolomé "Beyond the methods fetish: Toward a humanizing pedagogy" Transcript Click here to see the full transcription of this episode.  Soundtrack by Podington Bear

We welcome back Dr. Anthony Johnston to speak about his new book, "Introduction to Secondary Teaching: Blending Wisdom, Research, and Social Justice.” Dr. Johnston explores teacher wisdom of practice, social justice pedagogy, evidence-based practices, and adolescent brain research. He identifies the foundation of all classroom teaching as teacher identity, teacher presence, teacher passion, and teacher stance.

We share brief presentations from the third of the “Saturday Salons” that Ethical Schools is sponsoring with three international partners. Kerry Kirk Pflugh is the executive director of the New Jersey School of Conservation. She also comes with extensive background experience at the New Jersey Department of Environmental Protection. Tom Roderick is the author most recently of Teach for Climate Justice: A Vision for Transforming Education. He was also the Founding Executive Director of Morningside Center for Teaching Social Responsibility. Deb L. Morrison is a Learning Designer and Advisor at the University of Washington and a Lead Author on the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change Assessment Report 7. They talk about how educators can respond to the urgent environmental crises we face. Learn more and join at globalconversations.net

We welcome back Dr. Ujju Aggarwal, assistant professor at The New School, to speak about her book, Unsettling Choice: Race, Rights, and the Partitioning of Public Education. In Unsettling Choice, Dr. Aggarwal focuses on the intersection of public education and gentrification. The book is based on her work with mothers at a Head Start center in NYC. We discuss the race and class discrimination the parents faced and whether exclusion is inherent in school choice programs. Overview 00:00-00:56 Intros 00:56-07:13 Working with Head Start mothers in Manhattan’s Community School District 3 07:13-09:15 Connection between school choice and austerity 09:15-19:17 Issues mothers faced in choosing schools for their children and their experiences 19:17-24:06 The “post-Brown realignment” following the Brown v Board of Education Supreme Court decisions 24:06-25:30 Parents as “consumers” rather than as “citizens” 25:30-28:01 Can school choice exist without exclusion 28:01-29:03 NYC Schools Chancellor Samuels and citywide integration 29:03-32:21 Radical municipalism 32:21- Outro Transcript Click here to listen to see the full transcript of this episode.  References Book "Unsettling Choice: Race, Rights, and the Partitioning of Public Education" by Dr. Ujju Aggarwal Listen to our first interview "Ujju Aggarwal on school choice, whiteness as property, and the “right to exclude” published in 2019 Soundtrack by Poddington Bear

We share brief presentations from the second of the “Saturday Salons” that Ethical Schools is sponsoring with three international partners. Sherry Johnson, Tribal Education Director of the Sisseton-Wahpeton-Oyate (South Dakota), Deepak Ramola, Founder of Project FUEL (India), and Charlotte Hankin of Coconut Thinking and the Green School (Bali) talk about the importance of stories in reshaping how we think about our relationship to the natural world. Learn more and register for the third salon on February 21 at globalconversations.net Soundtrack by Poddington Bear Transcript Click here to see the full transcription of this episode.

We speak with Derek Black, Constitutional law professor at the University of South Carolina School of Law, about the impact of Trump administration’s policies on students’ civil rights. Department of Education offices meant to ensure students are not subject to discrimination have been decimated. The Department of Justice has switched from protecting minority students' rights to focusing on so-called “discrimination" against whites and attacking transgender students. Professor Black also says the need for "circuit breakers" on executive power transcends this administration. Overview 00:00-00:52 Intros 00:52:02:21 Threats to students’ protection from discrimination 02:21-03:53 Status of complaints to Department of Education’s Office of Civil Rights (OCR) 03:53-05:30 Importance of access to OCR without an attorney 05:30-10:09 OCR procedures and remedies 10:09-13:55 Role Department of Justice is supposed to have in protecting students against discrimination; Trump Administration priorities 13:55-17:01 How the Administration’s approach is schizophrenic 17:01-23:10 Ethical quandaries facing district administrators 23:10-24:43 Supplementing not supplanting: What happens when the Department of Education is no longer monitoring 24:43-27:21 The uncertainty factor—who gets focused on 27:21-30:36 State Departments of Education: How they fit in 30:36-34:11 Theatrics at US Department of Education 34:11-38:00 Problems before the Trump Administration and what would be important afterwards 38:00-40:11 Some specifics of “circuit breakers” that could reduce executive power 40:11- Outro Transcript Click here to see the full transcription of this episode. References   Our first interview with Derek Black happened in 2021. Click here to listen to "The attack on public education: Will public schools survive?"   Soundtrack by Poddington Bear

We share brief presentations from the first of the “Saturday Salons” that Ethical Schools is sponsoring with three international partners. Juan Mora of the Center for Artistry and Scholarship and Ramji Raghavan of Agastya International Foundation talk about how educators and communities can cultivate awareness of and relationship to the natural world. Learn more and register for the next salon at globalconversations.net   Overview 00:00-01:36 Introductions by Amy and Jon 01:36-02:45 Introduction of Juan Mora by David Penberg 02:45-12:36 Juan Mora: Separation of people from nature; What would you do if you were starting a school from zero? Experience in Córdoba, Argentina of basing a school on nature; Integrating the curriculum into nature-centered activities; And kids never asked, “Why are we doing this (activity)?” We’ve left nature out of our learning environments; A shift in learning that will help us understand how to teach and what to teach and where to teach differently. 12:36-14:09 David Penberg: Reciprocity, centrality of relationships, “nature deficit disorder”; Introduction of Ramji Raghavan 14:09-23:59 Ramji Raghavan: Transforming a barren wasteland of 170 acres into an ecological preserve; Nature-centric learning; Eco-walk; Constructing a giant figure showing herbs benefiting different parts of the body; Constructing a termite hill; Bandhu—everything is connected; Distributing learnings throughout India. 23:59-25:15 David Penberg: How educators can create conditions for people to think the kinds of worlds that they would like to inhabit and live in, whether it’s a school, a community; Creative learning and what that looks like, creative being; Being intentional, observant and continuously in relationship to the things around you. 25:15- Outro Transcript Click here to see the full transcription of this conversation.  Soundtrack by Poddington Bear

We speak with Dr. Mia Hood, author of  Pop Culture Literacies: Teaching Interpretation, Response, and Composition in a Digital World, about analyzing popular music and films along with more traditional literature. Dr. Hood talks about helping students to think about their ethical perspectives while engaging with "entertainment," and the importance of  educators'  resisting the temptation to impose their own “expert” interpretations in favor of modeling the process. We also discuss how teachers can resist imposing their views while teaching for democracy and social justice. Overview 00:00-00:48 Intros 00:48-02:48 Pop culture literacies 02:42-04:22 Schools’ ethical duty to help young people navigate the world as it is 04:22-06:23 Helping students to thin about their ethical perspectives 06:23-11:58 Students’ responses; Intersection of pop culture literacies and schools 11:58-15:01 Critical literacy and text analysis 15:01-19:09 Power operating within and through texts 19:09-21:56 Piercing the veil of “entertainment” to encourage critical analysis 21:56-26:25 Impact of AI 26:25-30:48 Kathy Hytten’s article, “Ethics in teaching for democracy and social justice” 30:48-33:55 Parental pushback? 33:55- Outro Transcript Click here to see the full transcription of this episode.  Resources Book Pop Culture Literacy: Teaching Interpretation, Response, and Composition in a Digital World by Mia Hood Soundtrack by Poddington Bear

Collaborate with teachers and learners worldwide! LEARN MORE AND REGISTER AT GLOBALCONVERSATIONS.NET Along with our partner organizations – Agastya International Foundation, Center for Artistry and Scholarship, and Thinking With You – Ethical Schools is bringing together educators, youth workers, and students from around the world to discuss ethical, democratic, and regenerative education strategies. Hear exciting presentations from visionary practitioners and participate in group discussions. Come with your co-workers! Attend with a cohort from your school or out-of-school program to maximize the benefits for your organization and students. Series 1: Ethics and the Natural World Saturdays, January 10 and 31; February 21 8:30-10:00 AM EST Pay what you wish. Suggested donation: $25 per session, $50 for all three sessions Additional participants from your organization: $15 per session, $30 for all three sessions. LEARN MORE AND REGISTER AT GLOBALCONVERSATIONS.NET

We speak with Dr. Susan Jean Mayer about her recent book, "Practicing Pragmatism Through Progressive Pedagogies: A Philosophical Lens for Grounding Classroom Teaching and Research." Dr. Mayer defines pragmatism in today's world and discusses the importance of critical exploration, democratic construction of knowledge, and openness to diversity of perspectives in the classroom. As teachers and learners, we can construct a shared set of values based on our experiential realities and come to understand these realities in coherent terms. Overview 00:00-00:36 Intros 00:36-02:55 How to define pragmatism in today’s world 02:55-05:34 How to define final truth 05:34-06:53 How to define an ethical classroom 06:53-11:29 Ethical and democratic classrooms: the same or how they may differ 11:29-15:03 Knowledge, experience, and education 15:03-17:55 Critical exploration in the classroom 17:55-21:05 Classroom example of critical exploration 21:05-23:49 How a critical exploration teacher can intervene when students are wrong 23:49-27:25 When inviting different perspectives and belief systems doesn’t come naturally to students 27:25-28:56 Schools aren’t encouraging students to talk to one another; have succumbed to discourse of test scores 28:56-33:20 How teachers can become more comfortable with perspectives they may disagree with 33:20-37:11 How pragmatic teachers can deal with a school system structured to eliminate or minimize cultural diversity 37:11-40:47 Balancing ties to local communities with supporting students who want to break from the consensus of the community 40:47-47:19 How teachers can help create a system of education based on pragmatism 47:19- Outro  Transcript Click here to see the full transcript of this episode.  References Book Practicing Pragmatism through Progressive PedagogiesA Philosophical Lens for Grounding Classroom Teaching and Research by Susan Jean Mayer Susan Jean Mayer's website Soundtrack by Poddington Bear