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Jeff and Katie step into the final triad—Head types—and the conversation sharpens immediately. Drawing from Joey Schewee's work, they wrestle with what “thinking processing” actually is, pushing past surface definitions into something more precise: the ability to step back, hold multiple conclusions, and move toward the path of least resistance. Along the way, they contrast this with the urgency and emotional weight of other centers, unpacking how Fives (and their Head counterparts) relate to ideas, energy, and the world itself. The result is a conversation that feels both analytical and grounded—less about abstract theory and more about how people actually experience thinking in real time.

We had a stellar discussion with Melissa Kircher, Josiah Goff and Nadia Brackett. This is a highly informed, self aware conversation about Five-ness, the Fives relationship with their heart and body, and what it looks like to see the world from their center. If you want to connect with our guests, they can be found below: https://www.instagram.com/nadiaraebrackett/ https://www.instagram.com/josiahgoff/ https://www.instagram.com/enneagrampaths/

Katie is joined by Kelly Cook (Enneagram 3) and her son Becket (Enneagram 5) for a candid conversation about what it was like to parent—and be parented—across different personality styles. They talk through real-life moments: learning how to communicate clearly, navigating boundaries, and discovering what each person actually needs.

Burnout isn’t just about doing too much—it’s about getting stuck. In this episode of The Morning Show, Jeff Cook, TJ Wilson, Kristin Messegee, and Jackie Contessa explore burnout through the lens of the Enneagram, reframing it as the result of unprocessed emotional cycles, internal imbalance, and living out of alignment with oneself. Rather than a simple crash after overwork, burnout shows up as emotional exhaustion, disconnection, and a loss of meaning—often driven by patterns we don’t see in ourselves. The conversation moves from theory into lived reality: parenting, work, identity, and the weight of responsibility. Each type burns out differently—emotionally, mentally, or physically—and recovery isn’t one-size-fits-all. The path forward centers on naming the true source of burnout, rebalancing the centers of intelligence, processing emotions instead of avoiding them, and adopting a long-term “marathon” posture toward life. This is an honest look at limits, responsibility, and how to keep going without losing yourself.

Connect with us and comment : HERE FInd Joey Schewee's book : HERE __ What does it really mean for a Six to seek security? In this episode, Jeff and Katie explore the inner world of Enneagram Sixes—how they navigate uncertainty, why they turn to relationships for clarity, and what’s really happening beneath their questions, intensity, and need for truth. Using Joey Schewee’s idea of the “processing center,” they trace how Sixes move out of their thinking center into the relational space, gathering information and testing reality in order to steady their internal world. This conversation brings fresh language to familiar patterns—distinguishing honesty from authenticity, exploring why Sixes can feel more intense than other feeling types, and showing how their drive for certainty shapes the way they engage others. In the second half, Jeff and Katie include a full bonus segment: a long-form theory discussion on processing, detachment, and the shared movement of Threes, Sixes, and Nines. If you enjoy the deeper architecture of the Enneagram, this is one to stay for.

Jeff and Dr. Sam E. Greenberg take a thoughtful look at the Enneagram’s place between philosophy and psychology, exploring skepticism, meaning, and what it really means for something to be “true.” Their conversation moves through questions of evidence, face validity, and the tension between data-driven frameworks and the lived reality of transformation. Connect with Sam's fantastic work : HERE

Connect with Around the Circle : HERE Follow Katie's work : HERE This episode of Early Access: Roots explores the evolving relationship between a mother and daughter through the lens of the Enneagram. Katie Whitlock sits down with Jennifer (Type Two) and her daughter Skyler (Type One) to unpack how personality, parenting, and personal growth intersect over time. They talk about family dynamics, anxiety, identity, and the challenges of loving someone well when their needs differ from your own instincts.

This episode of The Morning Show explores "the fixation"—those oft repeated mental patterns that feel like solutions but quietly limit our freedom. The conversation moves from defining fixation as an “unhealthy preoccupation” into a deeper examination of how each Enneagram type gets mentally stuck. We spend time with all nine types highlighting how each fixation both protects and constrains. This is a conversation about reclaiming choice, restoring balance across the centers, and stepping out of the loops that quietly shape our lives.

Danielle returns to the Scientific Enneagram podcast to share the story behind her unexpected absence—her father’s sudden transition to hospice the very day the podcast launched, and his passing shortly after. Joined by Melissa Kircher, the conversation moves through grief as it actually unfolds: nonlinear, unpredictable, and often impossible to name. Together, they explore how loss interacts with personality—especially through the lens of the Enneagram—touching on anger, emotional processing, withdrawal, and the tension between intellectualizing and simply feeling. More than a discussion of grief, this episode becomes an honoring. Danielle reflects on her father’s life as an engineer, a thinker, and a deeply influential presence who helped shape her love of science and nuance. Through stories, systems, and his unforgettable “11 life axioms,” a portrait emerges of a complex, principled man whose legacy continues to shape her work and voice. This conversation offers both insight and companionship for anyone navigating loss—and a reminder that grief, like love, doesn’t follow a formula. Connect with Danielle : HERE Connect with Melissa : HERE

Join us for this advanced discussion of the Enneagram and the science behind it. Sign up for a $20 Membership : HERE Then click here for links and all the details: HERE In this episode, we continue our deep dive into Personality and Wholeness in Therapy by Daniel J. Siegel, exploring Chapter 3 and one of the most ambitious questions in Enneagram work: How do the nine types actually form? Drawing from neuroscience and developmental theory, this conversation moves beyond philosophy and into the subcortical layers of the brain—where emotion, instinct, and survival strategies take shape. We unpack Siegel’s framework of agency, bonding, and certainty, and how core aversive emotions like anger, distress, and anxiety drive the formation of personality patterns at a deeply embodied level. To go further, access the full class, join our live discussions, and explore the growing library of Enneagram content at: 👉 https://www.aroundthecircle.org Join us for weekly classes, including our Tuesday night sessions, and be part of one of the most in-depth explorations of the Enneagram available right now.

Connect with all our work : HERE This episode of Rewired continues a deep dive into the Enneagram’s processing centers, turning toward those who process with feeling—Twos and Fours. Using Joey Schewee's NEW BOOK as a springboard, Jeff and Katie wrestle with how Twos and fours meet their needs and overcome their underlying feeling. Through Twos, the discussion becomes concrete. Feeling processing shows up as a drive to cultivate connection, often at the expense of productivity or self-reflection. The Two’s outward energy—serving, engaging, and attuning—reveals both the beauty and cost of building identity through others. Jeff and Katie contrast this with the Three’s pursuit of admiration and the difficulty doing types have in understanding relational ambiguity. The result is a grounded exploration of how connection becomes both a compass and a vulnerability. As the conversation expands to Fours (and begins moving toward Sixes), a richer picture emerges: feeling processors possess a heightened awareness of people, an instinct for emotional depth, and a persistent need to locate themselves within relationship. Whether through the Two’s service, the Four’s emotional magnetism, or the Six’s relational testing, each type reveals a different strategy for securing connection. What unfolds is less a tidy definition and more an invitation—to see how profoundly our wiring shapes what it means to feel “okay” in the world.

Sign up for our April 11 Workshop : HERE This is a recording of our Second Saturday Workshop from March. Our next Second Saturday workshop is April 11, where we’ll be focusing on Sixes and Sevens. You can find all the details and sign up at AroundtheCircle.org. ___ We moved into the inner world of Enneagram Fours and Fives, exploring what each type fears, avoids, and protects. For Fours, the conversation centers on the fear of insignificance, the pull of envy, and the deep longing to be seen and understood. What emerges is a powerful insight: envy isn’t just comparison—it can become a form of protection, keeping Fours in longing rather than risking rejection through real action and expression. As the conversation shifts to Fives, the focus turns to competency, energy, and the instinct to withhold. Fives reflect on their relationship to time, knowledge, and emotional exposure—revealing how easily life can be observed, analyzed, and prepared for, rather than fully entered. Their connection to need, dependence, and self-sufficiency brings a different angle on withdrawal, one rooted not in identity, but in resources. Together, this session offers a grounded and honest look at two withdrawn types and what it takes to move toward fuller participation in life.

Join us a Member : HERE In this first Early Access family episode, Katie Whitlock sits down with a mother–daughter pair to explore how the Enneagram plays out inside real relationships. Jen (Enneagram 3) and Olivia (Enneagram 1) bring both depth and honesty as they reflect on their shared history—shaped by achievement, responsibility, and a deep desire to “do things right.” From childhood dynamics and sibling comparisons to adult friendship and mutual respect, this conversation traces how their relationship has evolved across seasons of life. Together, they unpack the unique strengths of a 3–1 pairing—drive, alignment, and shared vision—alongside the tensions: judgment, emotional restraint, and the pressure to perform.

Connect with us : HERE In this Morning Show conversation, we dive into one of the most uncomfortable—but essential—parts of growth: exposure and vulnerability. From the “Enneagram of Avoidances” to the deeper question of what each type refuses to face, this episode explores how avoidance shapes our patterns … and how facing it might be the exact path to what we actually want. We unpack: The core avoidance for each Enneagram typeWhy growth requires contacting what we resistThe tension between healing vs. reopening woundsWhether parts of ourselves should be accepted, integrated, or eradicatedHow vulnerability functions in real relationships and community Along the way, the conversation moves from playful (favorite compliments 👀) to deeply personal—touching on fear, motivation, shadow work, and what it means to actually change.

Sign up for our Around the Circle Membership : HERE This week in the Reading Room, we continue our journey through Personality and Wholeness in Therapy with a deep dive into Chapter Two. This chapter introduces the PDP framework—a fresh attempt to reinterpret the Enneagram through developmental pathways, neuroscience, and narrative data. Along the way, we wrestle with big questions: What actually counts as evidence? How much of personality is fixed? And what role does inner experience play in shaping who we become? The conversation moves between appreciation and critique. We explore the strengths of the narrative tradition—especially its focus on first-person experience—while also pushing back on philosophical assumptions around “true self,” wholeness, and the limits of scientific grounding. We also examine the tension between “types” and “patterns,” the role of automatic behavior, and whether personality constrains or enables real change. Ultimately, this episode lands on a practical and urgent insight: the Enneagram matters because it reveals motive. And if we don’t examine our motives, they quietly run our lives. But when we bring awareness to them, we gain the possibility of real transformation—toward greater balance, integration, and health.