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Most cloud security incidents trace back to the customer, and most of those trace back to identity. Jeff and Jim sit down with Mike Small, Senior Analyst at KuppingerCole, to unpack Cloud Native Application Protection Platforms (CNAPP) and why identity practitioners should care. Mike explains how identity controls in the cloud have become data defined in code, why ephemeral workloads break traditional scan-then-deploy security, and how CNAPP evolved from static configuration analysis into runtime monitoring and SOC integration. The conversation covers the shared responsibility model, SOC 2 attestations and complementary user entity controls, multi-cloud complexity, and why standards matter for portability and sovereignty. Mike also looks at CNAPP as a security plane for AI, agents as another layer of non-human identity, recent market consolidation, and the cloud as national critical infrastructure. Plus, a detour into amateur radio, Morse code exams, and low-power QRP contacts across the Atlantic. Connect with Mike: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mikesmall01/ AI Identity and Agentic Trust: https://www.kuppingercole.com/blog/small/ai-identity-and-agentic-trust Mike's other writing for KuppingerCole: https://www.kuppingercole.com/people/small Connect with us on LinkedIn: Jim McDonald: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jimmcdonaldpmp/ Jeff Steadman: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeffsteadman/ Visit the show on the web at http://idacpodcast.com 00:00 Welcome and fall conference season 02:52 Introducing Mike Small 03:19 From engineer to identity software to analyst 05:07 What is CNAPP and why should IAM care? 07:21 Most cloud incidents are the customer's fault 11:00 Identity controls in the cloud are data 15:17 Static configuration analysis vs. runtime monitoring 19:34 Is CNAPP a product or a platform? 21:07 CSPM, CWPP, CIEM, KSPM and CNAPP capabilities 23:12 The shared responsibility model 27:46 Who defines secure? SOC 2 and complementary user entity controls 31:40 Multi-cloud and the case for standards 35:18 CNAPP as the security plane for AI 40:48 Where the CNAPP market heads next 44:34 Acquisitions and consolidation in cloud security 46:50 The cloud as national critical infrastructure 50:08 How sovereign is a sovereign cloud? 53:12 MCP and the speed of AI standards 53:39 Mike's passion for amateur radio 1:05:20 The CNAPP elevator pitch 1:06:14 Wrap up IDAC, Identity at the Center, Jeff Steadman, Jim McDonald, Mike Small, KuppingerCole, CNAPP, Cloud Native Application Protection Platform, cloud security, CIEM, cloud infrastructure entitlement management, CSPM, CWPP, KSPM, shared responsibility model, least privilege, misconfiguration, runtime monitoring, SOC 2, complementary user entity controls, multi-cloud, non-human identity, NHI, AI agents, agentic AI, MCP, sovereign cloud, critical infrastructure, identity standards, MFA, amateur radio, IAM, identity and access management

Bojan Simic, co-founder and CEO of HYPR, returns to Identity at the Center for a Sponsor Spotlight conversation with Jim McDonald. Bojan traces HYPR's path from passwordless authentication to a broader set of identity assurance controls and explains how assurance differs from verification across the full employee lifecycle. He describes what organizations find when they look for worker impersonators, from remote employees outsourcing their jobs to North Korean operatives, and why verification has to continue past day one. The conversation then turns to AI agents: why IAM teams are becoming the HR of AI, how agent identity differs from human identity, why humans can't manually govern agents at scale, and why securing MCP alone misses the full context of an agent's session. Bojan also covers what is slowing passwordless adoption, adaptive risk, alert fatigue, and how identity teams and the SOC can work together. This episode was made possible with support from HYPR. Connect with Bojan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/bojansimic Learn more about HYPR: https://www.hypr.com/idac Connect with us on LinkedIn: Jim McDonald: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jimmcdonaldpmp/ Jeff Steadman: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeffsteadman/ Visit the show on the web at idacpodcast.com 00:10 Sponsor Spotlight intro and welcome back Bojan Simic 02:36 HYPR's evolution from passwordless to identity assurance 04:44 How the pace of identity projects has changed 06:01 Agentic AI moves from theory to reality 08:19 Identity assurance vs. identity verification 10:02 Why workforce identity verification is on the rise 13:01 AI-powered social engineering crosses language barriers 14:30 Continuous verification beyond onboarding 17:06 Balancing verification with user experience 18:36 The business problem behind AI agent governance 22:42 How agent identity differs from human identity 24:50 Who owns agent identity? IAM as the HR of AI 27:00 Governing agents at scale and keeping humans in the loop 29:23 Why endpoint control matters for AI agents 31:48 What securing MCP alone can miss 33:20 Deterministic and probabilistic controls 35:00 What is holding passwordless back 37:26 Pilots and letting perfect be the enemy of good 39:25 Advice for leaders on adaptive risk 42:02 Signals that matter and avoiding alert fatigue 43:36 Identity teams and the SOC 45:53 Lighter note: early mornings in New York, family, and the Yankees 50:36 Wrap-up IDAC, Identity at the Center, Jeff Steadman, Jim McDonald, Bojan Simic, HYPR, Sponsor Spotlight, identity assurance, identity verification, workforce identity verification, continuous verification, worker impersonation, North Korean IT workers, deepfakes, social engineering, help desk security, AI agents, agentic AI, agent identity, AI agent governance, non-human identity, NHI, MCP, Model Context Protocol, endpoint security, blast radius, least privilege, access reviews, passwordless, MFA, FIDO, adaptive risk, adaptive authentication, alert fatigue, SOC, identity threat detection, IAM

Eve Maler, founder of Venn Factory and author of Mastering Digital Identity, joins Jim McDonald and Jeff Steadman for her tenth appearance on Identity at the Center. Eve shares what she has learned since the book came out, from writing for non-technical executives (and keeping AI out of the manuscript) to the strange places identity ends up on the org chart. The conversation covers treating identity as a product, why identity can be a business model in disguise, how CISOs can influence CIAM when they are not the boss of it, and the identity debt that AI is now calling due. Eve also explains why intent looks more like purpose of use than finer-grained authorization, how contract language can help frame agent mandates, what trust means to humans versus security teams, and the early work on UMA for Agents (U4A) to govern third-party agents through a resource-centric, protect surface mindset. The episode wraps with travel tips from all three frequent flyers. Connect with Eve: https://www.linkedin.com/in/evemaler/ Eve's book "Mastering Digital Identity" - https://masteringdigitalidentity.com/ MyTerms: https://myterms.info/ UMA for Agents: https://u4a.ai/ Kwaai AI Lab - https://www.kwaai.ai/ Connect with us on LinkedIn: Jim McDonald: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jimmcdonaldpmp/ Jeff Steadman: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeffsteadman/ Visit the show on the web at http://idacpodcast.com 00:00 Introduction and Eve's tenth appearance 02:40 Life since publishing Mastering Digital Identity 04:49 Writing for non-technical executives 06:36 AI and the book writing process 09:00 Identity as a product: feedback from leaders 10:29 The strangest places identity lives on the org chart 11:46 Metrics that work across functions 13:40 Identity as a business model in disguise 15:14 Identity's unhoused problem 16:56 Who is accountable for identity? 18:33 Security versus usability 20:43 Is identity the product or part of the product? 24:04 Normalizing product replacement 25:53 CISOs, CIAM, and "You're Not the Boss of Them" 28:03 Defining identity debt 29:27 How AI exposes identity debt 31:38 The organizational roots of identity debt 32:52 What intent means for AI agents 34:23 Poisoned intent and contracts as a model 36:15 Laws of robotics and the policy stack 39:21 MyTerms and IEEE 7012 40:04 Trust as a human word 43:29 UMA for Agents and third-party agents 47:27 The protect surface and what practitioners should consider 51:10 U4A maturity and how to get involved 53:43 Travel tips from frequent flyers 1:02:10 Wrap up IDAC, Identity at the Center, Jeff Steadman, Jim McDonald, Eve Maler, Venn Factory, Mastering Digital Identity, identity as a product, identity product management, identity debt, technical debt, CIAM, customer identity, CISO, identity ownership, identity metrics, board-level identity, AI agents, agentic AI, non-human identity, NHI, intent, purpose of use, trust, zero trust, protect surface, UMA, User-Managed Access, UMA for Agents, U4A, third-party agents, MyTerms, IEEE 7012, Kwaai, consent phishing, phishing-resistant authentication, passkeys, NIST 800-63, IAM, identity and access management, travel tips

Shea McGrew, Chief Technology Officer at Maricopa County, returns to Identity at the Center one year after episode 376 to take on a question she first raised at our Identity After Dark session: when does digital identity become critical infrastructure? Jeff and Jim talk with Shea about how a county broadband and digital equity project led her to see digital trust as the thread running through every digital government service, and why that trust depends on identity. The conversation covers building an external identity portal for residents, designing for consent and privacy from the start, why residents extend trust to private platforms more readily than to government, the right to be forgotten, data governance across departments, and where decentralized identity and verifiable credentials might fit. Shea also shares her view on access reviews as a learning journey, what it would take to trust AI agents with certifications, and whether an agent could ever be considered a citizen. Plus, potatoes and the proper way to cut a sandwich. Connect with Shea: https://www.linkedin.com/in/shea-mcgrew-6b82a36/ Connect with us on LinkedIn: Jim McDonald: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jimmcdonaldpmp/ Jeff Steadman: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeffsteadman/ Visit the show on the web at http://idacpodcast.com 00:00 Welcome to Identity at the Center (or AI at the Center) 02:19 How Jim and Jeff met, and how the podcast started 04:09 Jeff's fall conference schedule 06:39 Do you want IDAC content over the holidays? 07:32 IDPro membership and introducing Shea McGrew 08:15 Looking back at Identity After Dark 10:44 Zero trust progress one year later 12:04 From device identity to external identity and broadband 16:04 What counts as critical infrastructure? 19:00 External identity requirements in government 21:04 The blast radius of identity failure 23:06 If identity is critical infrastructure, who owns it? 24:26 What other public sector leaders are saying 26:40 One person, many identities 28:40 How government earns resident trust 32:37 Why not just copy Amazon? 35:02 A right to be forgotten in the US? 36:22 Governing data across department boundaries 38:30 Decentralized identity and the ownership problem 41:30 Tokenization and existing blockchains 42:34 The digital trust umbrella 45:56 Park passes versus benefits and courts 49:19 Does an official designation unlock anything? 51:03 Access reviews: security theater or essential? 55:26 Would you trust AI agents with access reviews? 58:36 Can an AI agent be a citizen? 1:02:20 More questions than answers 1:04:24 Lighter note: If you were a potato 1:07:55 Bonus: How do you cut a sandwich? IDAC, Identity at the Center, Jeff Steadman, Jim McDonald, Shea McGrew, Maricopa County, critical infrastructure, digital identity, digital trust, public sector identity, government identity, external identity, CIAM, citizen identity, resident identity, digital services, broadband, digital equity, zero trust, device identity, IGA, access reviews, access certifications, consent, privacy, right to be forgotten, data governance, decentralized identity, verifiable credentials, blockchain, tokenization, identity assurance, AI agents, agentic identity, non-human identity, NHI, human in the loop, Identity After Dark, IAM, identity and access management

Alex Bovee, CEO and co-founder of C1.ai (formerly ConductorOne), returns for his third appearance on Identity at the Center. Alex walks Jim and Jeff through the rebrand to C1.ai and why the .ai matters: identity now covers humans, workloads, and agents. The conversation opens on launch week and the new App Hub, built around a question many CIOs and CISOs are facing. What happens when everyone in the company becomes a builder and vibe-coded apps start running critical workflows? From there, Alex frames the difference between humans, software, and agents using two dimensions, trustworthiness and determinism, and explains why agents that "goal max" call for runtime enforcement instead of relying only on after-the-fact reviews. He breaks down the Hugging Face breach, where an OpenAI agent under evaluation escaped its sandbox in pursuit of better eval results, and lays out six control points for agent security: identity, the harness, network egress, data and tools, the LLM gateway, and credentials. The group also covers why IGA fundamentals speed up AI adoption, three buckets of agents (SaaS, enterprise, and personal productivity), agents evaluating other agents, governed swim lanes over shutting things down, and the slept-on problem of credentials sprawling across endpoints. Plus girl dads, boy families, and the return of the Royal Octopus. Made possible with support from C1. Learn more at c1.ai/idac Connect with Alex: https://www.linkedin.com/in/alexbovee/ Learn more about C1: https://www.c1.ai/idac Connect with us on LinkedIn: Jim McDonald: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jimmcdonaldpmp/ Jeff Steadman: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeffsteadman/ Visit the show on the web at idacpodcast.com 00:00 Intro 00:33 Welcome back, Alex Bovee 01:28 From ConductorOne to C1 and the .ai rebrand 04:14 Launch week and the App Hub 07:07 Farm-to-table software and the limits of off-the-shelf SaaS 09:56 The real risks of vibe-coded apps 12:52 Humans, software, and agents: trust and determinism 17:10 UARs matter more for agents 17:59 What happened in the Hugging Face breach 21:23 Six control points for securing agents 25:38 Where should teams focus first? 31:33 Meeting customers where they are 33:02 Why IGA basics come before AI adoption 34:27 AI accelerates bad IAM 35:45 Governance versus business speed 37:51 SaaS, enterprise, and personal productivity agents 41:19 Runtime enforcement and agents evaluating agents 44:22 Can you train an agent not to goal max? 47:33 Governed swim lanes, not shutdowns 50:33 Publishing a vibe-coded app through App Hub 53:03 The slept-on credential problem 56:04 Girl dads, boy families, and the Royal Octopus 1:00:54 Wrap-up IDAC, Identity at the Center, Jeff Steadman, Jim McDonald, Alex Bovee, C1, C1.ai, ConductorOne, Sponsor Spotlight, identity and access management, IAM, identity governance, IGA, AI agents, agentic AI, agentic enterprise, non-human identity, NHI, workload identity, machine identity, vibe coding, App Hub, Hugging Face breach, OpenAI, agent evals, goal maxing, runtime enforcement, runtime security, MCP, MCP gateway, LLM gateway, network egress, agent harness, just-in-time credentials, secrets management, shadow AI, user access reviews, UAR, joiner mover leaver, delegated authorization

Jeff flies solo for episode 450, joined by Alexis Bernthal, an associate on RSM's technology risk consulting team who found her way to the podcast through a corporate-wide email and a contact form submission that led to an invitation to Identiverse. They trace how Alexis went from failing a high school computer science class to finishing a CS degree, and how a topic on the show, role-based access, first put identity and access management on her radar. Alexis walks through what technology risk consulting looks like day to day, her first industry conference experience at Identiverse (including Identibeer, sessions on agentic identity and transaction tokens, and a Women in Identity gathering), and the blog she started at AlexisBernthal.com to document her own journey. The conversation turns to what it takes to bring more early-career people into identity: the perceived technical barrier, the value of mentorship and simply introducing yourself at conferences, and whether seniority is really a prerequisite (Jeff's own path started with programming parking lot lighting identities at Walgreens). They close things out with a browser tab hot take and a warning about what not to leave open during a screen share. Connect with Alexis: https://www.linkedin.com/in/alexis-bernthal/ Visit her website: AlexisBernthal.com Connect with us on LinkedIn: Jim McDonald: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jimmcdonaldpmp/ Jeff Steadman: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeffsteadman/ Visit the show on the web at http://idacpodcast.com 00:10 - Introduction and upcoming conference schedule 01:48 - Guest introduction: Alexis Bernthal 02:10 - How Jeff and Alexis met and the podcast's origin story 08:12 - How Alexis got into IT and landed at RSM 11:02 - What technology risk consulting actually involves 14:34 - A day in the life, plus RSM's Power of Love campaign 17:15 - How identity first showed up on Alexis's radar 18:48 - Identiverse: Alexis's first-ever conference 21:31 - Enthusiasm, Identibeer, and standout sessions 26:06 - AlexisBernthal.com and her own podcast with her dad 28:35 - What surprised her most about IAM 30:05 - Jeff's identity-as-a-language analogy 37:49 - Breaking into IAM without a technical background 41:21 - Learning by being in the room, plus IDAC's website Easter eggs 46:23 - ID Pro, mentors, and shout-outs to the RSM digital identity team 49:58 - What's holding the next generation back from IAM 54:19 - Introducing yourself at conferences and meeting people where they are 59:30 - Jeff's own accidental start in identity, programming parking lot lights 1:04:00 - Luck, networking, and today's job market 1:08:03 - Advice for new grads breaking into the field 1:10:26 - Where Alexis sees her IAM journey heading 1:12:59 - Lightning round: how many browser tabs is too many 1:17:44 - A cautionary tale about screen sharing 1:20:12 - Wrap-up and thank you's IDAC, Identity at the Center, Jeff Steadman, Jim McDonald, Alexis Bernthal, RSM, technology risk consulting, identity and access management, IAM, role-based access, Identiverse, Identibeer, ID Pro, agentic identity, transaction tokens, career development, mentorship, networking, early career, digital identity, authentication, authorization, single sign-on

George Fletcher joins Jeff Steadman and Sean O'Dell for a Decoded deep dive into transaction tokens (Txn-Tokens), the OAuth Working Group specification designed to secure requests as they move across microservices. George explains the problem transaction tokens solve: hop to hop security gaps, replayed access tokens, and the difficulty of tracking a single transaction across a graph of internal services. The conversation covers the anatomy of a transaction token, including the subject, audience, scope, and TXN claims, how a token's time to live should be scoped to the transaction itself, and why immutable parameters prevent tampering mid chain. George and Sean also explore how transaction tokens apply to AI agents and delegated authorization, referencing draft work on agent specific claims and cross domain trust. The episode closes with practical starting points for organizations of any size, including open source options and where to track the specification through the IETF OAuth Working Group. Resources mentioned in this episode: Transaction Tokens (base draft): https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-ietf-oauth-transaction-tokens-11.html Transaction Token Chaining Profile (Cross Domain Trust): https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-fletcher-transaction-token-chaining-profile-02.html Transaction Tokens for Agents: https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-araut-oauth-transaction-tokens-for-agents-00.html Tokenetes: https://tokenetes.io/ OAuth Working Group: https://github.com/oauth-wg Decoded by Identity at the Center: Jim McDonald: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jimmcdonaldpmp/ Jeff Steadman: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeffsteadman/ Sean O'Dell: https://www.linkedin.com/in/seanodentity/ Visit the show on the web at http://idacpodcast.com 00:15 Introduction and catching up with Sean O'Dell 01:25 Introducing today's topic, transaction tokens and zero trust 02:26 George Fletcher joins the show 02:41 George's path into identity, from AOL to the Liberty Alliance 04:22 The problem that led to transaction tokens at Verizon Media 09:01 What a transaction token is, in plain terms 10:25 The specific problem transaction tokens solve 11:43 Transaction tokens versus a short lived access token 13:48 Delegated authorization, traceability, and the TXN claim 22:04 How long a transaction token should live 27:13 Local AI, vibe coding, and shrinking token lifetimes 28:45 What is inside a transaction token, the core claims 35:39 Call chains and the transaction context claim 39:05 Applying transaction tokens to AI agents 41:08 The transaction tokens for agents draft and the ACT claim 43:37 Getting started with limited resources, open source options 46:32 Scaling transaction tokens at a larger organization 50:38 What transaction token nirvana looks like 53:31 Whether this replaces a standard OAuth server 55:59 Where to learn more, the IETF OAuth Working Group 58:09 Cross domain trust and calling outside the enterprise 1:01:38 Alternatives to transaction tokens and adoption incentives 1:05:16 George's summary of the conversation 1:07:26 Sean's closing thoughts and takeaways 1:09:19 Wrap up and close IDAC, Identity at the Center, Jeff Steadman, Jim McDonald, Sean O'Dell, George Fletcher, Practical Identity, transaction tokens, Txn-Token, OAuth, OAuth Working Group, zero trust, microservices, access tokens, JWT, authorization, delegated authorization, agentic identity, AI agents, call chain, token exchange, TXN claim, scope claim, Verizon Media, IETF, Keycloak, Tokenetties, cross domain trust, Decoded

Howard Ting, CEO of Opal Security, joins Jeff Steadman for a Sponsor Spotlight covering identity governance for both human and non-human identities. Howard traces his path through RSA Security, Microsoft, Palo Alto Networks, Nutanix, and Cyberhaven before returning to identity to lead Opal. The conversation covers why disabling a departing employee's account rarely ends their access, the orphaned tokens, service accounts, and agents left behind, and why visibility has to come before ownership and risk analysis. Howard and Jeff dig into agent intent and authority: whether an agent can declare its own intent, why permissions should stay a subset of what its human creator holds, and how narrowly scoped, single-task agents make governance easier. They also cover how Opal matches AI decision capacity to a growing volume of access requests, including how the company's Paladin AI supports approvers and campaign creators today. The episode closes with Opal's announcement of a unified platform for governing human, non-human, and agent identities together, extending Paladin's decisioning to agents and introducing Policy Insights to help security teams balance friction against risk. Howard shares his view that identity has to shift from an episodic, event-driven practice to a continuous one, along with a lighthearted detour into 90s video games. Connect with Howard: https://www.linkedin.com/in/howardting/ Learn more about Opal Security: https://www.opal.dev/ Connect with us on LinkedIn: Jim McDonald: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jimmcdonaldpmp/ Jeff Steadman: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeffsteadman/ Visit the show on the web at idacpodcast.com 00:10 Intro and welcome 01:01 Howard's identity origin story: RSA, Microsoft, Kim Cameron 02:48 What Opal does: unified control plane for human and non-human identities 04:16 The opal.dev domain and how Opal got its name 06:42 Termination and lifecycle: why access doesn't fully go away 09:33 Session management and orphaned accounts 13:57 Visibility as the first step in identity governance 17:31 Can an agent declare its own intent? 20:29 Authority: should an agent ever exceed its creator's permissions? 22:12 Inside Opal: Risk Center and Policy Insights 25:41 How Opal connects to systems and collects usage data 27:30 Cross-application segregation of duties 29:06 Zero standing privilege and AI managing AI 32:12 Building trust in AI-driven access decisions 39:00 Announcing Opal's unified platform for agents and non-human identities 44:18 Explainability and traceability in Paladin's decisions 48:54 Tuning risk tolerance and autonomy in Paladin 51:20 Proving value: demos, POCs, and industry skepticism 57:47 The shift from episodic to continuous identity 59:50 Lightning round: favorite 90s video games IDAC, Identity at the Center, Jeff Steadman, Jim McDonald, Howard Ting, Opal Security, Sponsor Spotlight, identity governance administration, IGA, non-human identity, NHI, agent identity, agentic AI, access governance, least privilege, just-in-time access, JIT, zero standing privilege, Paladin, Risk Center, Policy Insights, segregation of duties, SOD, RSA Security, Microsoft, Kim Cameron, Palo Alto Networks, Nutanix, Cyberhaven, continuous identity, identity lifecycle management, orphaned accounts, service accounts, API keys, intent-based access control

Jeff Steadman sits down with Andi Hindle, conference chair for Authenticate 2026, for a preview of this year's event. Making his seventh appearance on the show, Andi walks through how Authenticate has evolved since its founding alongside Identiverse and outlines six major topic areas shaping the 2026 agenda, including passkeys in practice, regulatory pressures, security and standards architecture, digital identity wallets, and non-human authentication. The conversation moves into hardware-based identity for retail and industrial settings, age verification challenges, and a detour into 3D printing and supply chain assurance. Jeff and Andi dig into continuous identity and zero standing privilege, the shift toward non-human traffic dominating infrastructure requests, and how agentic AI is forcing organizations to rethink authorization and human-in-the-loop decisions. They close with privacy and consent questions for non-human identities, thoughts on where authentication and authorization standards are headed, and a lighter look at Authenticate team traditions and sci-fi recommendations. Connect with Andi: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ahindle/ Impact of GDPR on Identity and Access Management by Andi Hindle: https://bok.idpro.org/article/id/24/ Learn more about FIDO Authenticate 2026: https://authenticatecon.com/event/authenticate-u-s-2026/ Non-FIDO members can use the code IDAC15 to save 15% on their in-person conference pass. Connect with us on LinkedIn: Jim McDonald: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jimmcdonaldpmp/ Jeff Steadman: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeffsteadman/ Visit the show on the web at http://idacpodcast.com 00:10 - Introduction and discount code rundown for upcoming conferences 01:10 - Andi Hindle returns for his seventh appearance 01:29 - Favorite episode banter and the running Andrew Shikiar joke 03:08 - Origins of Authenticate and its relationship with Identiverse 09:01 - Passkeys are solved, so what comes next 09:53 - Lessons learned building the Authenticate agenda 12:59 - The scale of effort behind running Authenticate 15:29 - Adjacent topics expanding beyond the core passkeys mission 16:09 - Six major topic areas planned for Authenticate 2026 22:13 - Identity as the foundation for everything digital 23:14 - Hardware identity and non-human authentication 24:53 - Retail tokens, badges, and age verification use cases 28:36 - Replacing things only when the replacement is actually better 29:41 - A detour into 3D printing and personal satisfaction 31:39 - 3D printing, supply chain assurance, and identity problems 36:38 - Introducing continuous identity 37:28 - Zero standing privilege and why it matters now 40:46 - The human user as the infrastructure edge case 45:16 - Speed, scale, and the limits of human in the loop 46:11 - Setting red lines for agentic risk 50:56 - Privacy and consent questions for non-human identities 56:51 - Anonymization, data logging, and GDPR parallels 59:51 - A GDPR and IAM resource from the IDPro Body of Knowledge 1:00:26 - What Authenticate topics might look like three years out 1:04:59 - Why accounts may not make sense for agents 1:06:49 - Authorization as the next hard problem to solve 1:08:20 - Inside jokes from the Authenticate organizing team 1:09:30 - The story behind Andi's favorite Britishism 1:10:38 - Book and media recommendations 1:14:39 - Closing thoughts and sign-off IDAC, Identity at the Center, Jeff Steadman, Jim McDonald, Andi Hindle, Authenticate 2026, FIDO Alliance, passkeys, identity verification, identity wallets, continuous identity, zero standing privilege, agentic identity, non-human identity, authorization, shared signals, GDPR, IDPro, Identiverse, age verification, hardware authentication

Rick Scot, Global CIO and CISO at Elevate Textiles, joins Jim and Jeff to talk about how he went from leading a data team to holding both the CIO and CISO seats at a global manufacturing company. Rick shares the moment that pulled him into security, how his tight-knit Charlotte cyber community shapes his thinking, and how he balances speed and control when the two roles pull in different directions. The conversation moves into identity for the age of AI agents: whether an agent is a human or non-human identity (Rick argues it's neither), who should own accountability when something goes wrong, and how session termination has to extend beyond turning off an account. Rick also digs into shadow AI, the real cost of tokens versus flat-rate licenses, and how he evaluates new identity technology against his organization's size and risk appetite. The episode closes with what excites and concerns him most about AI over the next three to five years, his advice for identity practitioners, and a lighter look at hobbies people wouldn't expect. Connect with Rick: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rickscot/ Connect with us on LinkedIn: Jim McDonald: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jimmcdonaldpmp/ Jeff Steadman: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeffsteadman/ Visit the show on the web at http://idacpodcast.com 00:00 - Intro and community shoutouts 07:06 - Introducing Rick Scot, Global CIO and CISO at Elevate Textiles 07:46 - How Rick got into cybersecurity 09:22 - Charlotte's tight-knit cyber community 11:18 - The moment that made security the focus 13:06 - Balancing the CIO and CISO roles 16:17 - What "Identity at the Center" means to Rick 19:26 - Where to start when building an IAM program 23:29 - Balancing risk and innovation with AI 27:46 - Who should own accountability for an AI agent 29:38 - A hierarchy for agent identities 33:31 - Terminating access and sessions, not just accounts 36:25 - Dealing with shadow AI 41:37 - Standing up a governance process for new AI projects 43:19 - Evaluating new identity technology and token costs 48:51 - Training and governance around AI usage 52:22 - Established vendors versus disruptive startups 56:56 - Looking three to five years ahead 1:00:20 - Advice for identity practitioners 1:01:41 - Lightning round: hobbies and surprises 1:08:40 - Closing and where to find Rick IDAC, Identity at the Center, Jeff Steadman, Jim McDonald, Rick Scot, Elevate Textiles, CIO, CISO, identity and access management, IAM program, identity governance, AI agents, non-human identity, agentic identity, shadow AI, session management, offboarding, token costs, Charlotte cybersecurity community, identity leadership

Jim McDonald hosts this Sponsor Spotlight episode of Identity at the Center, made possible with support from Twine Security. Jim is joined by Benny Porat, co-founder and CEO of Twine Security and previously co-founder and CTO of Claroty. Benny shares how his cybersecurity background led him into identity and explains the concept of the "execution gap," the space where identity teams are accountable for outcomes but lack the full business context to act on their own. The conversation explores Twine Security's AI digital employee, Alex, and how it differs from traditional automation and RPA, where AI-driven execution fits best within identity operations today, and the balance between the parts of a task AI can handle easily versus the harder remaining work. Benny and Jim also dig into governance and trust, including why least privilege matters even more for AI agents and non-human identities, how organizations typically start with read-only access before expanding permissions, and how access reviews and recertification could evolve as AI takes on more of the process. They close with reflections on measuring success, how the identity practitioner's role changes as more execution shifts to AI, and a lighter round on what a personal AI digital employee might look like. Connect with Benny: https://www.linkedin.com/in/bennyporat/ Learn more about Twine Security: https://www.twinesecurity.com/ Connect with us on LinkedIn: Jim McDonald: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jimmcdonaldpmp/ Jeff Steadman: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeffsteadman/ Visit the show on the web at idacpodcast.com 00:00 - Introduction and welcoming Benny Porat, co-founder and CEO of Twine Security 00:52 - How Benny found his way into identity and access management 02:21 - The origin of the name Twine 03:28 - Defining the IAM execution gap 05:53 - AI digital employees versus RPA and automation 08:07 - Where AI digital employees are best suited today 09:45 - Why AI is strong at eighty percent and what makes the rest difficult 14:45 - Where a digital employee like Alex fits within identity operations 18:43 - Trust, governance, and giving AI agents the right permissions 21:42 - Applying least privilege to AI agents and non-human identities 25:19 - How organizations start using Alex, from read-only to full execution 30:27 - Rethinking the role of access reviews with AI involved 33:14 - Measuring efficiency gains and revocation rate improvements 36:00 - Addressing concerns about AI replacing IAM practitioners 39:12 - How customers define and measure success 44:15 - How the practitioner's day-to-day role changes with AI agents 47:12 - Closing thoughts and where to learn more 47:37 - Lighter note: imagining a personal AI digital employee Keywords: IDAC, Identity at the Center, Jeff Steadman, Jim McDonald, Benny Porat, Twine Security, Sponsor Spotlight, AI digital employee, Alex, identity and access management, IAM, execution gap, least privilege, access reviews, recertification, agentic AI, non-human identity, NHI, Claroty, IGA, PAM, governance, human in the loop

Jeff and Jim open with the unavoidable topic of AI agents and the tension between enabling innovation and governing agent permissions, then run through a packed fall conference schedule. The August mailbag pulls questions from Singapore, Toronto, Prague, Johannesburg, Helsinki, and Seoul. They discuss when externalized authorization makes sense, why passkey recovery can become the weak link in phishing-resistant authentication, what EU digital identity wallets may mean for enterprises, how continuous access evaluation changes the meaning of terminating access, and how to build resilience around a centralized identity provider without creating a second full-scale IdP. The episode closes with a lighter question: if every IAM product needed a giant warning label, what should it say? Connect with us on LinkedIn: Jim McDonald: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jimmcdonaldpmp/ Jeff Steadman: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeffsteadman/ Visit the show on the web at http://idacpodcast.com 00:10 - Welcome and have we talked about AI too much? 01:32 - Governing AI agents without becoming the progress prevention department 03:50 - Fall conference season and IDPro 04:40 - Cybersecurity Summits in Chicago and Atlanta 06:40 - SailPoint Navigate, InfoSec World, FIDO Authenticate, and Identiverse DC 10:40 - 3D printing, challenge coins, and superfan status 11:56 - August mailbag begins 12:19 - Singapore: Is externalized authorization ready for mainstream IAM? 20:30 - Toronto: Passkeys, account recovery, and help desk social engineering 25:55 - Prague: What should enterprises do about EU digital identity wallets? 31:44 - Johannesburg: Continuous session revocation and what “terminate access” really means 38:04 - Helsinki: Designing identity resilience around a centralized IdP 45:23 - Seoul: What warning label should every IAM product have? 48:26 - Wrap-up and how to send future mailbag questions IDAC, Identity at the Center, Jeff Steadman, Jim McDonald, IAM, identity and access management, August 2026 mailbag, externalized authorization, authorization, policy-based access control, passkeys, account recovery, phishing-resistant authentication, identity verification, EU digital identity wallet, continuous access evaluation, shared signals, session revocation, token revocation, identity resilience, identity provider, disaster recovery, business continuity, AI agents, agentic identity, IDPro, FIDO Authenticate, Identiverse DC, InfoSec World, SailPoint Navigate

Jeff and Jim are joined by John Huyette, AI Risk Leader at RSM, and Omer Arshed, North American Digital Identity Leader at RSM, to explore how identity controls can help organizations manage the growing risks of AI agents. John introduces five laws for managing AI risk: governability, lineage and integrity, trust boundaries, authority containment, and human impact. The conversation connects those ideas to familiar IAM principles including ownership, auditability, zero trust, least privilege, just-in-time access, privileged access management, and continuous monitoring. They also discuss prompt injection, shadow AI, human accountability, and why organizations should start by building an honest inventory of the AI capabilities already operating in their environments. 5 Laws of AI Risk: https://www.linkedin.com/feed/update/urn:li:activity:7487942457075257344/ Connect with John: https://www.linkedin.com/in/john-huyette-1373906/ Connect with Omer: https://www.linkedin.com/in/omerarshed/ Connect with us on LinkedIn: Jim McDonald: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jimmcdonaldpmp/ Jeff Steadman: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeffsteadman/ Visit the show on the web at http://idacpodcast.com Timestamps 00:00 Introduction, 3D printing, and conference updates 06:58 Introducing John Huyette and Omer Arshed 07:52 John’s path from technology risk to AI risk 12:11 Omer’s identity origin story 13:43 The five laws for managing AI risk 18:00 What “ghosts in the machine” means for identity 20:17 Governability and ownership of AI identities 25:17 Do you know what has access to what? 29:43 Applying decades of IAM lessons to AI 32:35 Lineage and integrity 35:20 Building an AI bill of materials 37:12 Trust boundaries and external data 38:36 Prompt injection and untrusted content 42:48 Applying zero trust principles to AI agents 47:26 Authority containment 49:56 PAM, least privilege, and just-in-time agent access 56:22 Human impact and accountability 58:41 Is agentic AI really a new identity problem? 01:02:35 Starting with lower-risk AI use cases 01:04:21 Where organizations should start 01:05:07 Shadow AI and zombie accounts 01:07:09 What excuses would an AI give during an access review? 01:12:20 Wrap-up Keywords IDAC, Identity at the Center, Jeff Steadman, Jim McDonald, John Huyette, Omer Arshed, RSM, AI risk, AI agents, agentic AI, AI governance, governability, lineage and integrity, trust boundaries, authority containment, human impact, shadow AI, identity governance, IAM, zero trust, privileged access management, PAM, least privilege, just-in-time access, non-human identity, NHI, prompt injection, AI identity, access governance, continuous monitoring

Recorded live at Identiverse 2026 in Las Vegas on June 17, Jeff and Jim are joined by Bart Allan, General Manager at Bravura Security, for a live recording with a studio audience. In a late-night talk show format, the three host an open Q&A driven by IAM practitioners in the room. From securing AI identities to whether access reviews are headed the way of the password, this is an unscripted conversation driven by practitioners for practitioners. Topics include identity as a business enabler, zero standing privilege, agentic authentication, standards for AI agents, vendor relationships, the captive customer problem, community, and hiring IAM talent. Thanks to Bravura Security for supporting the Identity at the Center podcast. Connect with Bart: https://www.linkedin.com/in/bartholomewallan/ Learn more about Bravura Security: http://bravurasecurity.com/idac Connect with us on LinkedIn: Jim McDonald: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jimmcdonaldpmp/ Jeff Steadman: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeffsteadman/ Visit the show on the web at http://idacpodcast.com 00:00:00 Welcome and Introduction 00:03:00 AI Identities: Should IAM Teams Panic? 00:07:30 Identity as a Business Enabler vs. Cost Center 00:24:00 Continuous Identity and the Future of Access Reviews 00:35:00 Zero Standing Privilege and JIT Access 00:38:00 Standards for Agentic AI 00:46:00 Vendor Relationships and the Captive Customer Problem 00:55:56 Normalizing Rip and Replace 01:01:00 IDPro, Identity Beers, and Building Community 01:11:00 Agentic Authentication and Non-Human Identities 01:18:00 Hiring IAM Talent 01:26:00 Team Diversity and Multiple Perspectives 01:27:00 Closing Identity at the Center, IDAC, Jeff Steadman, Jim McDonald, Bart Allan, Bravura Security, Identiverse 2026, Identiverse, IAM, identity and access management, identity security, AI identities, agentic identity, agentic authentication, non-human identities, NHI, access reviews, zero standing privilege, JIT access, continuous identity, IGA, vendor selection, identity community, IDPro, IdentiBeer, live podcast

Live from Identiverse 2026 in Las Vegas, Jeff and Jim sit down with Sachini Siriwardene, winner of this year's Kim Cameron Award, along with Ian Glazer of the Digital Identity Advancement Foundation (DIAF). Sachini shares how she moved from open banking API security into consumer identity work at a bank, and what led her to apply for the award named after identity pioneer Kim Cameron. Ian explains DIAF's mission to remove financial barriers to industry participation and previews the upcoming Vittorio Bertocci award for standards contributors. The conversation covers agentic AI and non-human identity governance, the AuthZen specification, continuous access management, and how practitioners can separate real AI capability from marketing hype. The group also swaps favorite hallway conversations from the show floor, including a discussion on extending the shared signals framework beyond RISC and CAPE, before wrapping with some very Vegas talk about the Sphere.Connect with Sachini: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sachini-siriwardene/Connect with Ian: https://www.linkedin.com/in/iglazer/Learn more about the Digital Identity Advancement Foundation: https://diaf.org/Connect with us on LinkedIn:Jim McDonald: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jimmcdonaldpmp/Jeff Steadman: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeffsteadman/Visit the show on the web at http://idacpodcast.com00:00 - Cold open and conference banter01:35 - Jim's origin story with identity and Kim Cameron03:22 - Welcoming Sachini Siriwardene and Ian Glazer04:02 - Ian explains the Digital Identity Advancement Foundation05:54 - How Sachini got into identity through open banking08:46 - The moment identity clicked as mission critical09:47 - Agentic AI and non-human identity governance11:25 - Optimist or pessimist on AI and the job market14:45 - Applying for and winning the Kim Cameron Award15:41 - How DIAF selects award recipients17:21 - Standout sessions and the AuthZen specification18:36 - First impressions of Identiverse20:01 - Advice for future award applicants22:03 - Managing agentic identity in practice23:16 - Separating AI hype from real capability24:32 - Where the identity industry can improve27:08 - Acting fast without chasing hype28:05 - Favorite hallway conversations29:23 - Extending the shared signals framework30:39 - A D&D themed conference talk31:08 - Vegas talk and the Sphere experience34:19 - Wrap up and how to support DIAFIDAC, Identity at the Center, Jeff Steadman, Jim McDonald, Sachini Siriwardene, Ian Glazer, Identiverse 2026, Kim Cameron Award, Vittorio Bertocci Award, Digital Identity Advancement Foundation, DIAF, agentic AI, non-human identity, AuthZen, continuous access management, open banking, OAuth2, FAPI, shared signals framework