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When you're thinking about leaving law, it's easy to convince yourself that you don't have any transferable skills. You've spent years learning how to be a lawyer, and so much of what you do every day feels specific to practicing law. It's hard to imagine how any of that experience would be useful in a job that has nothing to do with the legal profession. Something that lawyers often don't realize is that the skills they take for granted aren't necessarily things everyone else knows how to do. When you're surrounded by other lawyers, being able to hold yourself accountable and get things done doesn't seem particularly special. It's just what you do. Once you get outside the legal profession, though, those same skills can be things that set you apart. In this episode of The Former Lawyer Podcast, Sarah Cottrell shares examples of former lawyers who have gone into sales, literary representation, data analysis, and marketing, and how they've used skills they developed practicing law in those roles. She talks about why lawyers tend to underestimate what they bring to other careers and why those skills can be useful in more jobs than you might expect. 0:29 - Why lawyers think they don't have transferable skills 1:51 - Skills that seem ordinary to lawyers can be selling points in other careers 2:29 - Alex Su on accountability as a transferable skill lawyers overlook 4:38 - How Lilly Ghahremani uses her legal training as a literary agent 5:55 - Dan Branagan on using litigation skills in data analyst interviews 7:16 - Ashley Carlisle on applying lawyers' ability to learn in marketing 9:24 - Why your transferable skills aren't limited to legal-adjacent jobs 10:17 - Finding a role where your existing skills are a better fit Mentioned In The Transferable Skills Lawyers Overlook When Leaving Law How Lawyers Can Rethink Their Skills for Business with Alex Su [TFLP314] From Law School to Literary Agent with Lilly Ghahremani [TFLP250] Escaping the Legal Grind to Build a Balanced Life with Dan Branagan [TFLP248] How to Shift Professionally From Lawyer to Chief Marketing Officer with Ashley Carlisle [TFLP218] First Steps to Leaving the Law

If you want to leave law but have no idea what you want to do next, it can feel like you need to figure out at least a few possible options before you are ready to get help. For a lot of unhappy lawyers, though, the problem is not choosing between several clear career paths. Everything outside of practicing law feels like a complete black box, and they do not even know how to start figuring out what might be a good fit.  In this episode of The Former Lawyer Podcast, Sarah Cottrell explains why not knowing what you want to do next is actually one of the reasons you might work with her. She talks about how she helps lawyers go from having no idea what their options are to identifying possibilities that match their values, strengths, skills, and personality, and why you do not need to go figure out the basics on your own before that process can be useful. 0:29 - Do you need to know what you want to do before working with Sarah 1:17 - When everything outside of practicing law feels like a complete black box 2:35 - You do not need to know what you want to do next before getting help 3:20 - Why not knowing what you want is part of the reason to work with Sarah 3:46 - Going from “I have no idea” to options that match your values, strengths, skills, and personality Mentioned In When You Want to Leave Law but Don’t Know What’s Next First Steps to Leaving the Law 1:1 Coaching with Sarah Cottrell

Being laid off from a legal job can create a lot of anxiety, financial and otherwise. If you’ve been laid off, you’re worried that a layoff might be coming, or you’ve been through one in the past, there are very real practical concerns that come with losing your job. We all have bills, we all need to be responsible adults, and sometimes getting another job practicing law is the choice that makes sense. The question is whether you actually want another legal job or whether you’re looking for one because that feels like what you’re supposed to do next. If you felt an immense amount of relief when you were laid off, that feeling is information. You may not have realized how much pressure and stress your job was creating until suddenly that weight was lifted. In this episode of The Former Lawyer Podcast, Sarah Cottrell talks about why being laid off can be a helpful catalyst for thinking about what you actually want to do next. She shares what she has seen with clients who didn’t recognize how unhappy they were until they were laid off, why another legal job can make sense as a bridge job, and why it’s worth listening if your reaction to losing your job was, “Thank goodness.” 2:09 - Clients who didn’t realize how unhappy they were until they were laid off 2:53 - Asking yourself whether you actually want another legal job 3:18 - The practical reasons you might choose another job practicing law 4:04 - Feeling relief after a layoff is information 5:17 - Using another legal job as a bridge job instead of trying to prove something 7:09 - Listening to what your reaction to being laid off is telling you Mentioned In Do You Actually Want Another Legal Job After a Layoff? First Steps to Leaving the Law 1:1 Coaching with Sarah Cottrell

Staying in a toxic law firm because you want to help change it can feel like a good reason to stay. You want to get to a position where you have more influence and can use that influence to make the environment better. The question is what staying long enough to get there is costing you along the way. The harder part is that toxic environments can change your sense of what is normal or acceptable. You can start out very clear about what feels wrong and, over time, become more comfortable with things you previously would not have accepted. If the goal is to eventually use your influence to create change, you also have to be realistic about the difference between playing the game to get there and becoming part of the machine. In this episode of The Former Lawyer Podcast, Sarah Cottrell talks about the cost of staying in a toxic law firm because you want to change it from the inside. She explains why toxic environments can change your sense of what is and is not okay, why gaining influence can make it harder to use that influence the way you originally intended, and why it is important to keep reassessing what staying is doing to you. 0:30 - Staying in a toxic law firm because you want to change it 1:45 - Lawyers think about the cost of leaving, not the cost of staying 2:15 - Staying to fix the environment can change you 3:08 - Playing the game to make change versus becoming part of the machine 4:21 - What happens when you finally have the influence you were waiting for 5:23 - Your conscience can be formed by your environment 6:18 - Being clear about who you are and what you are willing to do 7:50 - When the effect staying is having on you is a reason to reassess Mentioned In The Cost of Staying in a Toxic Law Firm First Steps to Leaving the Law 1:1 Coaching with Sarah Cottrell

When leaving law feels like letting other people down, it can become much harder to take your own unhappiness seriously. For lawyers who are women, first-gen, people of color, or part of another historically underrepresented group, there can be a very real sense that being in these spaces is not just about them. Their achievement can start to feel tied to representing other people well and showing what is possible. The difficult part is that this sense of responsibility can mean having to get to a very bad place before being willing to prioritize yourself. Sarah sees lawyers whose experience at a law firm has been extremely detrimental to their mental, physical, emotional, and relational health, who still discount all of that and focus on the reasons they feel like they should stay. For people who are highly responsible, it can be very hard to value their own pain and suffering when they also feel responsible for what their leaving might mean for other people. In this episode of The Former Lawyer Podcast, Sarah Cottrell talks about her own experience of feeling like leaving her law firm meant letting other women down and why she sees versions of that same dynamic with her clients. She talks about the sense that your existence and achievement in these spaces are not just about you, how that can keep people going even when the experience is doing real harm, and why your own well-being deserves to matter too. 0:29 - The pressure to stay when leaving feels like letting other people down 1:05 - Feeling responsible to advance for other women in Biglaw 3:00 - When your existence in the space feels like it’s not just about you 4:11 - Having to get to a very bad place before prioritizing yourself 5:17 - Highly responsible lawyers struggling to value their own pain and suffering 6:05 - You matter, your well-being matters, and you’re not letting people down 7:25 - Being unselfish to the point of doing harm to yourself to help others 8:16 - The permission slip to take care of yourself Mentioned In When Leaving Law Feels Like Letting Other People Down First Steps to Leaving the Law 1:1 Coaching with Sarah Cottrell

Your law job may feel more unsustainable than it used to, even if you were managing it fairly well before. Maybe you already knew the environment was not great, or that the work itself was never especially sustainable, but you were making it work. Now, all of a sudden, it feels completely impossible and you are wondering what changed. For a lot of lawyers, the instinct is to turn that question inward. Is it because you are weak? Is it because you cannot hack it anymore? Sarah talks about why being impacted by what is happening around you does not mean there is something wrong with you. If your nervous system is constantly being primed for threats and hypervigilance has become the baseline, it makes sense that you do not have the same capacity you had before. In this episode of The Former Lawyer Podcast, Sarah Cottrell talks about why your law job may feel more unsustainable than it used to and what may actually be behind that shift. She explains how the broader environment can affect your nervous system, why lawyers in particular may be feeling that impact, and why listening to what your body and your nervous system are telling you can help you figure out what the best next step is for you career-wise. 0:53 - When a law job that felt manageable starts to feel unsustainable 1:44 - Why lawyers may be especially affected by what is happening around them 2:29 - Feeling like you can’t keep doing this doesn’t mean you’re weak 4:12 - What your nervous system may be recognizing about your work environment 6:00 - Hypervigilance as a baseline and how it affects your capacity 7:10 - What to do when your work suddenly feels unsustainable 8:31 - Listening to your body and nervous system as you consider what comes next Mentioned In Why Your Law Job Feels More Unsustainable Than It Used To First Steps to Leaving the Law

“There’s a reason they call it a job.” “If it was fun, everyone would do it.” “The grass isn’t always greener.” Lawyers who hate their jobs hear some version of this all the time from people outside of the legal profession, usually when they are trying to explain just how miserable their work has become. There is a kernel of truth in the idea that every job involves some amount of work, frustration, and things you would rather not do. The problem is that every job does not suck in the way that being a lawyer can suck. For lawyers who have tied suffering to working hard or doing a good job, that distinction can be especially hard to see. In this episode of The Former Lawyer Podcast, Sarah Cottrell talks about why “every job sucks” is bad advice for lawyers who hate their jobs, what can make legal work uniquely unpleasant, and why believing that suffering is simply part of having a job can make it harder to imagine something better. 0:30 - Hearing “there’s a reason they call it a job” from people outside the law 2:01 - The kinds of misery that can make legal work uniquely unpleasant 3:02 - Why every job does not suck in the way being a lawyer can 4:42 - When lawyers start believing work is supposed to involve suffering 5:49 - Questioning whether worthwhile work can exist without mental and emotional suffering 6:25 - Using therapy to unpack the belief that suffering is part of working hard 7:46 - You do not have to suffer in your job 8:23 - Exploring what might be a better fit despite what other people say Mentioned In Why “Every Job Sucks” Is Bad Advice for Lawyers Who Hate Their Jobs First Steps to Leaving the Law

When you start thinking about leaving the law, it is really common to realize that some of what you are trying to figure out is about your career and some of it goes much deeper than that. You may need help understanding what kind of work would actually be a good fit for you while also untangling why quitting feels so unsafe or why disappointing other people feels almost impossible. That is part of why therapy and career coaching can work so well together. They might both help you get to the same place, but they are not doing the same work, and one is not a substitute for the other. What comes up in coaching can be useful to take into therapy, and the insight you get in therapy can make it much easier to see what you actually want career-wise. In this episode of The Former Lawyer Podcast, Sarah Cottrell talks about the difference between therapy and career coaching, why she strongly recommends therapy if someone only has the bandwidth for one, and how the two can support each other as you work through what comes next. 0:29 - Coaching versus therapy when you’re trying to figure out what comes next 2:06 - Why Sarah recommends therapy when you only have bandwidth for one 2:51 - Therapy and career coaching are not substitutes for each other 4:10 - How therapy and career coaching can work together 5:13 - Using therapy to understand what shapes your ideas about work and career 7:49 - Why quitting can feel unsafe and other people’s disapproval can feel intolerable 8:23 - Learning to tolerate disappointing people without assuming you’ve done something wrong Mentioned In Do You Need Therapy or Career Coaching When You Want to Leave Law First Steps to Leaving the Law

You can know that you do not want to keep practicing law and still have no idea what you want to do. You may not even know what you could do. A lot of lawyers assume they need to have some sense of the answer before they can start when the process is actually designed for people who are in exactly your position. Part of what makes figuring out what comes next so uncomfortable is that there is no assessment that gives you one answer. You have to get a clearer picture of who you are, pay attention to what you are genuinely interested in, and gather information about what different jobs are actually like. As you learn more, you refine what you are looking for, which can feel confusing when you are used to having a clear path to follow. In this episode of The Former Lawyer Podcast, Sarah Cottrell walks through the Former Lawyer Framework and explains how she helps lawyers figure out what they want to do instead of practicing law. She talks about why the process starts well before resumes and LinkedIn, what makes the exploration stage so confusing, and how getting more information can help you identify work that is actually a better fit. 0:27 - The Former Lawyer Framework for figuring out what to do when you do not want to practice law 1:17 - Looking back at what brought you to law in the first place 2:46 - Getting a clearer picture of who you are and what makes a job a good fit 4:27 - Why assessments do not give you one answer about what to do next 5:16 - Letting genuine interest guide which career options you explore 8:55 - Refining your options when the process does not follow a clear path 10:30 - Why resumes and LinkedIn come at the end of the process 11:38 - Knowing you dislike your current job is enough to get started 12:39 - Final enrollment details for the Former Lawyer Collaborative Mentioned In How to Figure Out What You Want to Do Instead of Practicing Law The Former Lawyer Collaborative First Steps to Leaving the Law

After years in the law, it can be easy to believe that creativity simply is not part of who you are. Maybe you stopped making time for things you used to enjoy, or maybe you decided a long time ago that being artistic was not practical, serious, or something that fit with the kind of person who becomes a lawyer. That belief can shape more than what you do outside of work. It can also shut you off from whole groups of jobs because you think of them as jobs for creative people, and you do not see yourself as one of those people. Reconnecting with your creativity does not mean you need to become a working artist. It may just mean realizing that creativity is important to you and that you have been setting that part of yourself aside. In this episode of The Former Lawyer Podcast, Sarah Cottrell talks about why so many lawyers say they are not artistic or creative, how legal work can leave people feeling stifled, and what can happen when creativity starts to bubble back up. She also talks about making room for that part of yourself, whether it changes the kind of work you want to do or simply helps you build a more fulfilling life. 0:30 - Telling yourself that you are not artistic or creative 1:10 - Learning that being an artist is not a realistic career path 2:19 - Feeling stifled by the constraints on creativity in legal work 3:28 - Realizing that being artistic or creative is important to you 4:35 - Picking up old hobbies and reconnecting with creativity 5:30 - Being afraid that recognizing your creativity will make you more dissatisfied 6:40 - Cutting yourself off from an avenue for joy and fulfillment 8:24 - Sarah’s own experience of saying she was not artistic or creative 9:38 - Making room for all the different parts of who you are Mentioned In Reconnecting With Your Creativity After Years in the Law First Steps to Leaving the Law The Former Lawyer Collaborative

If you have been thinking about joining the Former Lawyer Collaborative, now is the time. Enrollment is closing permanently on August 31, 2026, and while the program will remain open for another year, this is the last chance to join the community and work through the Former Lawyer Framework with Sarah’s support. In this episode of The Former Lawyer Podcast, Sarah Cottrell talks about why she decided to close the Collaborative, what members will still have access to through August 31, 2027, and where she plans to focus her work next. She also shares what the last few years have made even clearer to her about how important it is for unhappy lawyers to feel seen, understood, and less alone while they figure out what comes next. 0:27 - Why enrollment in the Former Lawyer Collaborative is closing 4:48 - How the Collaborative grew from a community into the Former Lawyer Framework 6:57 - How AI and information overload changed Sarah’s thinking about the future of Former Lawyer 9:32 - When the Collaborative will close and why enrollment ends a year earlier 10:14 - What members will still have access to through August 31, 2027 11:34 - What Sarah plans to focus on after the Collaborative ends 14:52 - The importance of human connection for lawyers figuring out what comes next Mentioned In What’s Next for the Former Lawyer Collaborative You Don't Have To Quit Your Job To Start Leaving Law  The Former Lawyer Collaborative Collab Plus One-on-One Program First Steps to Leaving the Law

In today’s episode, Sarah is back again with Annie Little discussing the book B******t Jobs by David Graeber. The final misery covered in the book is the misery based on knowing that one is doing harm. The most obvious example of this as lawyers would be representing a person or entity, and they are asking you to do something that is itself harmful. While these situations may arise, people tend to be aware and can deal with the moral conflict.

In today’s episode, Sarah is back again with Annie Little discussing the book B******t Jobs by David Graeber. It’s part of a series of podcast discussions diving into the miseries of a b******t job, and today, it’s time to dive into the third misery that comes with b******t jobs. If you missed the first two, go back and catch up. See show notes at formerlawyer.com/189

In today’s episode, Sarah is back again with Annie Little discussing the book B******t Jobs by David Graeber. It’s part of a series of podcast discussions, so check out the others before and after this one. Graeber gives four reasons why having a b******t job feels so miserable. Last week’s discussion was all about the first reason—ambiguity and forced pretense—catch up on that one first. Then, let’s dive into the second reason. See show notes at formerlawyer.com/188

This episode is part 2 of the series where Sarah is chatting with Annie Little about the book B******t Jobs by David Graeber. If you missed the first episode in this series, check that out first and learn the background of this series and more about Annie. This episode is about the misery of ambiguity and forced pretense, which is the first of four things Graeber identifies as an impact that having a b******t job can have on you. When it comes to ambiguity in law firms, the lack of transparency is the first thing that comes to mind for Annie. She points out that there should be a simple, straightforward path with clear instructions on each assignment and an obvious ladder to climb within the firm. In reality, there are so many hidden things that lawyers are left to just figure out on their own.  See show notes at formerlawyer.com/187