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This episode is a first and an experiment. For a long time I have wanted to interview visual artists, but since this is an audio only podcast, I was uncertain how best to enable you, my audience, to see the visual art my guests offered while the interview was in process. I am not sure if I have yet solved that issue, but this is a first attempt to do so. I will please need your feedback as to how every thing works. My guest is the Reverend Doctor Julia Goldie Day. More on her below. Julia has provided the following links and, hopefully, if you are on this site, while your are listening to the interview, you can click on the link at the appropriate time and see her paintings. Julia Goldie Day was born a painter. From an early age Julia felt called to be baptized, to serve as a pastor, and to be a mother. Following these callings while practicing her gifts haven’t always been easy, leading to a sometimes-bumpy road, but they have been fruitful. Julia studied at the SC Governor’s School for Visual Arts, graduated from Anderson University with a Bachelor of Arts in Painting and Drawing, studied Pastoral Care and Counseling at the School of Divinity at Gardner-Webb University, and received a Doctor of Ministry in Leadership at Memphis Theological Seminary. She was ordained into Christian ministry by Clearview Baptist Church in the Cooperative Baptist Fellowship and served churches in South Carolina and Tennessee.   You can see Julia’s paintings, writing, and preaching at juliagoldieday.com and follow her on social media at @JuliaGoldieDay. Immanence Practice Resurrection Cannot Quench Love Mary, You’re Covered in Treetops You can read Julia’s articles on Baptist News Global here: https://baptistnews.com/?s=julia+goldie+day#gsc.tab=0&gsc.q=julia%20goldie%20day&gsc.page=1 The intro and outro music for this episode is from a clip of a song called ‘Father Let Your Kingdom Come’ which is found on The Porter’s Gate Worship Project Work Songs album and is used by permission by The Porter’s Gate Worship Project.

One of the means of helping to overcome white supremacy is for those of us who are white not only to learn to tell our own race story, but also to take over the responsibility of holding each other as white people accountable when we act and speak in ways that reveal our racial biases or that we are shaped by white supremacy beyond our awareness. As individuals we need to learn and train ourselves how to recognize and become more fully aware of when our thoughts, assumptions, words, and actions cause racial harm. We also need to be more willing to confront and correct other white people when they do the same. It helps to have white role models for this process. My guest for this episode provides such a role model. Greg Jarrell is a cultural organizer with QC Family Tree in the Enderly Park neighborhood of Charlotte, North Carolina. He works with words and music to impact housing and neighborhood justice issues. Jarrell writes about theology and history and co-leads Carolina Social Music Club, a popular jazz band. He and his wife, Helms, are ordained ministers and are raising two sons. Greg is the author of two books that will be the focus of our conversation. They are: A Riff of Love: Notes on Community and Belonging Our Trespasses: White Churches and the Taking of American Neighborhoods You can learn more about Greg from his website: gregjarrell.com The intro and outro music for this episode is from a clip of a song called ‘Father Let Your Kingdom Come’ which is found on The Porter’s Gate Worship Project Work Songs album and is used by permission by The Porter’s Gate Worship Project.

This episode is a followup on my interview with Professor Joerg Rieger. The intent of all of Professor Rieger’s work, including the subject of my first interview with him about his book, Theology in the Capitalocene: Ecology, Identity, Class, and Solidarity, is that theology should have an affect on one’s lifestyle and an impact on the world. In order to realize that intent, Professor Rieger established and is the founding Director of the Wendland-Cook Program in Religion and Justice. The Wendland-Cook Program in Religion and Justice is an interdisciplinary program located at Vanderbilt University Divinity School. Its focus is on issues of justice that arise at the intersection of religion, economics, and ecology. Founded in 2019 and supported by a generous gift from Barbara Wendland, the mission of the program is to develop resources and opportunities for students, scholars, clergy, and activists to envision and create a more just and sustainable world for all. In addition to being the founding Director of the Wendland-Cook Program, Professor Rieger is Distinguished Professor of Theology and The Cal Turner Chancellor’s Chair in Wesleyan Studies. Joining us in this interview is Gab Lisi. Gab (she/they/he) is the Assistant Director of the Wendland-Cook Program at Vanderbilt University and Vanderbilt Divinity School. Gab resides in Columbus, OH and their dog, Franklin (or Frank). They hold an M.Div. from Union Theological Seminary, an MSL from The Ohio State University, and a B.A. in Theology and Criminal Justice from Xavier University (Cincinnati, OH). They are curious about power analysis, class analysis, and Catholicism. In their spare time, you can find them at home reading, camping with Frank, or hanging out with friends. Important links for learning more about the Wendland-Cook Program: Website: https://www.religionandjustice.org/ Solidarity Circles: https://www.religionandjustice.org/solidarity-circles Exchanges Courses: https://www.religionandjustice.org/exchanges Interventions: https://www.religionandjustice.org/interventions Substack: https://religionandjustice.substack.com/ The intro and outro music for this episode is from a clip of a song called ‘Father Let Your Kingdom Come’ which is found on The Porter’s Gate Worship Project Work Songs album and is used by permission by The Porter’s Gate Worship Project.

Because of our nation’s commitment to capitalism and the desire to be technologically advanced and leaders in the global business market, across the political and theological spectrum, most parents are interested in and committed to having their children go to college/university. Those students are also enculturated into valuing and wanting to go to college/university. And because of the extensive increase in remote learning, around 61% of students in the United States enroll in college following high school.  Also, because of the global economy, and because the colleges/universities in the United States are some of the best in the world, large numbers of international students seek to attend colleges/universities here. While things are continuously changing on college campuses, and while there are adults who attend college later in life, or those who attend after serving in the military, or those who attend graduate school, a constant for the majority of the  population of colleges/universities, including international students, is the post-high school 18-24 year old student. For that age group who choose to attend college on a campus, it commonly means leaving home and relying on themselves for a myriad of decisions for the first time. Developing the self-discipline to navigate those decisions is a part of the maturing process. Having some sort of community to assist and provide support in this maturing process helps. For those students who have a religious faith, a campus ministry, commonly sharing the same faith as the student, provides that community and support. Because there is a constant in the student population related to age, there is a constant in both psychological and faith development. That provides a constant of experience in campus ministry over the years. However, due to challenges never faced by previous generations, campus ministry currently being provided on college/university campuses across our nation has substantively changed. My guest for this episode are here to help us understand those challenges and changes and to help give a deeper insight into campus ministry as it is happening now in our nation. Sarah and Daniel Patiño lead the Seek Christian Community at Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University, or Virginia Tech, in Blacksburg, Virginia. Both Daniel and Sarah are graduates of Virginia Tech. To learn more about the Patiños and their ministry, visit www.vtseek.org. The intro and outro music for this episode is from a clip of a song called ‘Father Let Your Kingdom Come’ which is found on The Porter’s Gate Worship Project Work Songs album and is used by permission by The Porter’s Gate Worship Project.

In this episode I speak with Professor Joerg Rieger about his book, Theology in the Capitalocene: Ecology, Identity, Class, and Solidarity. Professor Rieger explains why the term, “Capitalocene” should be used instead of the term “Anthropocene.” He helps us understand what is happening because of the Capitalocene, especially as it negatively impacts in a new way many of the issues relating to social justice–issues such as global warming, classism, racism, sexism. queerism, and labor. He also outlines the way theologies and religions have negatively contributed to the development of the Capitalocene. However, Professor Rieger provides us with alternatives and offers us ways to respond. He also believes that both theology and religion have a role in moving us more positively forward. In order to bring the alternatives Professor Rieger offers to address the capitalocene into concrete action, he established the Wnedland-Cook Program in Religion and Justice.The Wendland-Cook Program in Religion and Justice is an interdisciplinary program located at Vanderbilt University Divinity School. Its focus is on issues of justice that arise at the intersection of religion, economics, and ecology. Founded in 2019 and supported by a generous gift from Barbara Wendland, the mission of the program is to develop resources and opportunities for students, scholars, clergy, and activists to envision and create a more just and sustainable world for all. Professor Joerg Rieger is Distinguished Professor of Theology, The Cal Turner Chancellor’s Chair in Wesleyan Studies, and the Founding Director of the Wendland-Cook Program in Religion and Justice. The intro and outro music for this episode is from a clip of a song called ‘Father Let Your Kingdom Come’ which is found on The Porter’s Gate Worship Project Work Songs album and is used by permission by The Porter’s Gate Worship Project.

I confess to being guilty of what I have observed in most others who, like me, were born, raised, and continue to live in the United States. I take my citizenship for granted. I vote in all major elections, pay my taxes without much complaint, respect and am thankful for government and law enforcement officials, show up for jury duty (although I have never been selected for a jury), and abide by the law. But, I, like most, do little else relating to my citizenship. I don’t go to and speak at town meetings, see little benefit from protests, or believe any effort to write my elected officials (especially those I didn’t vote for) will have any impact. For most of my life, I have believed I have very little power to confront those in power or to create change. I have been wrong! Most leading scholars of democracy and advocates for democracy all agree that individual citizens, who take their citizenship seriously and organize, have the power to hold government officials on all levels accountable, to have them address our concerns and issues that are important to us, and to create change. There are different ways of organizing and different tools for helping with organizing, but the act of organizing and using that organizing is a vital means of creating change and to making our democracy work and thrive. In this episode, I speak with Alan Luis Ramirez about his involvement with and efforts in such an organizing effort. La Milpa is an umbrella organization under which is PODER Emma. Emma is a community is West Asheville, North Carolina. Alan Luis shares with us an understanding of the fullness of this organizing effort. It creates local change and empowerment, economic and employment options and opportunities, and cultural and citizenship dynamics. It is exciting and inspiring and should be imitated, like all such efforts, so that these efforts and the change they create can increase. Alan Luis is a resident owner of Sourwood Mobile Home Co-op, a member of PODER Emma’s Cooperative Development Team and the Director of Mutual Aid (Casa de Ayuda Mutual). The intro and outro music for this episode is from a clip of a song called ‘Father Let Your Kingdom Come’ which is found on The Porter’s Gate Worship Project Work Songs album and is used by permission by The Porter’s Gate Worship Project.

This episode is my third interview on democracy. In this episode my guest and I will be discussing the Movement Action Plan or MAP model for organizing social movements that enable a group of citizens to create change in our culture and in our country through changes in our national, state, and local governments. This model is outlined in the book, Doing Democracy: The MAP Model for Organizing Social Movements by Bill Moyer, JoAnn McAllister, Mary Lou Finley, and Steven Soifer. Bill Moyer is not to be confused by the famous journalist and television personality, Bill Moyers with an ’s’ on the end of his last name. Bill Moyer, the originator and developer of the MAP model for social movement organizing, was for over forty years a social change activist, community organizer, and educator. Alas, Bill passed away in 2002, but the co-authors of the book are still very much alive, and Dr. JoAnn McAllister has graciously agreed to be my guest for this conversation. Dr. McAllister is an interdisciplinary social science educator and researcher. Her work is grounded in a systems perspective and focuses on the role of culture in shaping individual and social beliefs, attitudes, and behaviors. Her focus is on understanding how these shape our perceptions and actions, and applying these concepts can help us to understand contemporary social problems.  She believes that in knowing our own story and learning to listen to the stories of others we can collaborate more effectively to promote positive social change. She has worked with many non-profits, community organizations, and government agencies in the development of education programs related to criminal justice, at-risk youth, and the environment. She is the co-author of Doing Democracy: The MAP Model for Organizing Social Movements written by Bill Moyer (2001) and has been engaged in numerous activities to create positive social change over the years, including Anti-War, Sanctuary, Food Security, and Environmental groups. She is working on a new project and book, Still Doing Democracy: Finding Common Ground and Acting for the Common Good. Her current focus is on training engaged citizens, community advocates, and social change activities to develop more effective collaborative skills to further positive social change. The intro and outro music for this episode is from a clip of a song called ‘Father Let Your Kingdom Come’ which is found on The Porter’s Gate Worship Project Work Songs album and is used by permission by The Porter’s Gate Worship Project.

This episode is my third interview with Dr. Laura Lengnick about her book, Resilient Agriculture. In my blogspot for the second interview, at the request of Dr. Lengnick, I clarified that the discussion in the second interview was recorded in June of 2024 before the impact of Hurricane Helene in Western North Carolina toward the end of September, 2024, and was not a response to that event. However, Dr. Lengnick agreed that at a time which allowed for recovery and healing, some reflection about Resilient Agriculture in light of the event of Hurricane Helene in Western North Carolina was important and appropriate. Particularly important for that reflection includes Dr. Lengnick’s understanding of the concept of “bouncing forward” rather than “bouncing back” or “building back better.” That time, nearly one year after the Hurricane Helene event, has come. So I welcome back Dr. Laura Lengnick. Dr. Lengnick is the author of Resilient Agriculture: Cultivating Foods Systems for a Changing Climate. This book will be the basis for these interviews. Laura is the founder and principal of Cultivating Resilience which works with organizations of all kinds to integrate resilience thinking into assessment, operations and strategic planning. Trained as a soil scientist, Laura has 30 years of experience as a researcher, policymaker, educator, activist, and farmer. She has broad federal policy expertise gained through work as a U.S. Senate staffer, a USDA-ARS researcher, and a lobbyist advocating for sustainable agriculture in the U.S. Congress and was a lead author of the 2013 United States Department of Agriculture’s report, Climate Change and Agriculture in the United States: Effects and Adaptation. You can learn more about Cultivating Resilience and Laura here: cultivatingresilience.com In this interview a reference was made to effort called Regenerative Agriculture. Dr. Lengnick sees that effort as providing tools for Resilient Agriculture, but believes that that the work she and others are doing with Resilient Agriculture goes beyond Regenerative Agriculture. You can learn more about Regenerative Agriculture here: commonground.org kissthegroundmovie.com The intro and outro music for this episode is from a clip of a song called ‘Father Let Your Kingdom Come’ which is found on The Porter’s Gate Worship Project Work Songs album and is used by permission by The Porter’s Gate Worship Project.

In this episode, Amy Cantrell returns to speak of her life’s work and calling. Amy Cantrell lives in Asheville, North Carolina and is founder and Co-Director of BeLoved Asheville dedicated to creating home, health, equity, and opportunity for all.  BeLoved is a community of people putting love into action every day.  We bring people from all walks of life together to create innovative solutions to some of the most challenging problems of our time:  housing and food insecurity, poverty, lack of healthcare, systemic racism, and climate change. BeLoved’s projects includes:  BeLoved Villages of deeply affordable homes; rapid relief, community health, and vaccination equity efforts during the COVID-19 pandemic; the first homeless/formerly homeless Street Medic Team in the nation; Racial Healing & Cultural Organizing; creating healthy food access through Free Farmers markets, Plants for the People  and community gardens; as well as advocacy campaigns around affordable housing, homelessness, food equity,  gentrification, and systemic racism. Our projects work at the intersections of community, creativity, and equity. Amy was school educated at Converse College (BA) and Columbia Theological Seminary in Atlanta, GA (MDiv.) and was “street educated” at the Open Door Community in Atlanta and at BeLoved Asheville. In 2020, she passed the NASCLA national licensing exam and became a general contractor to help support BeLoved’s project to build deeply affordable homes. She received the Western North Carolina Peacemaker of the Year in 2017 and was recently named one of the USA Today Network’s Women of the Year, 2024.   Recently, she co-led BeLoved’s response to Hurricane Helene serving 15,000 people daily across Western North Carolina’s impacted zones in the aftermath of the storm. BeLoved became the largest local rapid response group in the wake of Helene supporting equitable responses including Well Check teams and Flush Brigades to support elders and people with disabilities. Hike teams hiking miles to remote areas. Creating temporary water infrastructure for communities, schools, and childcare centers. Sharing 67 tiny homes on wheels as immediate temporary shelter. Currently, BeLoved is doing 30 home repairs and has started their first whole home replacements as well as building a new BeLoved Village in Swannanoa. BeLoved has been featured in stories by ABC News/Good Morning America, PBS News Hour, CBS, NBC,MSN, Accuweather, the Washington Post, and People Magazine. She is married to Adrienne Sigmon and loves being mom to twin 11 year olds, Myla and Eleecia.  She loves the color purple, playing guitar, making art, and studying movement history.  Find her on Facebook and Instagram @Amy Cantrell and @BeLovedAsheville  For more information about BeLoved Asheville, visit www.belovedasheville.com.

At the age of 96, Luci Shaw is a prolific poet, writer, and editor as well as being a photographer. With 19 volumes of poetry and one on the way, 8 books, and two children’s books, Luci has spent a lifetime sharing her gift and love of writing. Along with her first, now late, husband Harold Shaw, she was a co-founder of Harold Shaw Publishers where she was senior editor and eventually President. She has been an English stylist for the popular Biblical translations and paraphrases The Living Bible, The Message, and Today’s New International Version. Luci has been an adjunct and summer faculty and a frequent guest lecturer at colleges and universities. In addition she has been a popular workshop leader. She is currently Writer in Residence at Regent College, Vancouver, Canada. Her work has appeared in many journals like The Christian Century, Christianity Today, and Sojourners. Luci describes herself as a Christian who is a poet and not a Christian poet. She was a long-time friend of, co-author with, and editor for Madeleine L’Engle. To learn more about Luci, go to her website at lucishaw.com The intro and outro music for this episode is from a clip of a song called ‘Father Let Your Kingdom Come’ which is found on The Porter’s Gate Worship Project Work Songs album and is used by permission by The Porter’s Gate Worship Project.

My guests for this episode introduce us to an updated version a type of organization which has been around since the late 1880s, but which most of us have never heard of or know anything about. The type of organization is a Settlement House. The updated version is modeled in a Settlement House one of my guests founded and the other has helped strengthen and sustain. It is called The Good Neighbor House and is located in Waco, Texas. As my guests will discuss, in its updated version, a Settlement House offers local communities, towns, and cities a resource to strengthen the peaceful bonds of it residence; it offers our nation a resource to strengthen the practice of our democracy; and it offers Christian churches a resource for fulfilling a key mission and mandate of the Church’s work–that of showing hospitality to the stranger. In considering the current challenges of both our nation and the churches in the U.S., Settlement Houses can provide a relevant and needed contribution, and are thus something worth knowing more about and considering. The founder of the Good Neighbor House, Dr. Laine Scales, has been on this show before. Laine is Professor and PhD Program Co-Director for the Diana R. Garland School of Social Work. She completed 15 years as Associate Dean in Baylor’s Graduate School from 2004-2019. Her scholarly work led to her appointment as co-director of Baptist Scholars International Roundtable (BSIR). Laine is the author of All That Fits a Woman: Training Southern Baptist Women for Charity and Mission, 1907-1926 and co-author/co-editor of several works, including the 6th Edition of Christianity and Social Work: Readings in the Integration of Christian Faith and Social Work Practice, and Christian Faith and University Life: Stewards of the Academy. Her research interests include doctoral education, history of Baptist women in social work and missions, and rural social work. Laine‘s research on historical settlement houses led her to establish Good Neighbor Settlement House in Waco Texas, a social innovation experiment in nurturing community through an intergenerational experience of the arts, music, education, recreation, and worship. Tyler Mowry is a PhD candidate and in the Department of Religion and a Content Specialist on the Learning Design team at Baylor University. He has participated in a number of community development efforts, including K–12 educational advocacy in Bogotá, Colombia and West Chicago, IL, and urban agricultural development in East Atlanta, GA. Tyler is a member of the board of trustees and the maintenance team, which is responsible for care of the building and grounds at the Good Neighbor House, and his family and church are frequent users of the space. You can learn more about Good Neighbor House in an article title, “Good Neighbor House: Reimagining Settlement Houses as a Response to Contemporary Community Challenges,” in Chapter 3 of Christianity and Social Work: Readings on the Integration of Christian Faith and Social Work Practice, Sixth Ed., by T. Laine Scales and Michael S. Kelly. Direct link to the article can be found here: The intro and outro music for this episode is from a clip of a song called ‘Father Let Your Kingdom Come’ which is found on The Porter’s Gate Worship Project Work Songs album and is used by permission by The Porter’s Gate Worship Project.

This episode will be the first in a series that explores how the Church and the Christian faith is doing globally. In each episode I will have a guest from a different country or area to talk about the Christian experience and the Church’s challenges in the place of my guest. My guest for this episode is Dr. Bennett Uche Enyioha. Dr. Enyioha is an experienced Baptist pastor, author, educator, and leader. He is an Associate Professor, having taught at various theological seminaries and colleges in Nigeria. For ten years he was the president of the Baptist Theological Seminary in Kaduna, Nigeria. He has served in leadership positions both in the Nigerian Baptist Convention and the Baptist World Alliance. Since his retirement, Dr. Enyioha has worked to establish the B. U. Enyioha Foundation for the purpose of assisting gifted students that need resources to make possible their education, helping hospital patients with their hospital expenses, and establishing a lectureship that will be a resource for educating the people and churches of Nigeria. For enquiries about the Foundation, its work, and how to contribute and donate to the foundation, contact Dr. Enyioha at either: [email protected] [email protected] The intro and outro music for this episode is from a clip of a song called ‘Father Let Your Kingdom Come’ which is found on The Porter’s Gate Worship Project Work Songs album and is used by permission by The Porter’s Gate Worship Project.

As I did in my spoken intro to this episode, I want to begin this blogspot with a clarification. The interviews that have made the two parts and episodes with Dr. Lengnick were done in early June. You may know that beginning September 24 the rain from Hurricane Helene began to come through the area where I live, which is in Black Mountain, North Carolina, just east of Asheville, North Carolina. The primary impact of that event occurred on the night of September 26-27. It was devastating and in many places it was catastrophic. I posted Part 1 on September 24, the day the rain began. It is just now that I am able to post Part 2. My original intention was to post this episode a week after posting Part 1. Because both of these interviews on Resilient Agriculture directly speak to the issues that bear on the impact of Hurricane Helene, Dr. Lengnick wanted to make sure that you, my listeners, understood that these interview were made 3 months prior to the impact of the hurricane and not as a response to it. However, some reflection in light of the ideas and principles of Resilient Agriculture upon the event of Hurricane Helene needs be provided. Dr. Lengnick has graciously agreed, when the time is more appropriate, to return for a third interview, especially to speak about her understanding of the idea of bouncing forward rather than bouncing back. We will look forward to that interview. In this episode, Laura talks about her experiences in having been active in promoting Resilient Agriculture for a while now, she speaks about the importance of stories to the promotion of Resilient Agriculture and tells us some stories, and she provides a very helpful list of things we non-agricultural folks can do to participate with and in Resilient Agriculture. Dr. Lengnick is the author of Resilient Agriculture: Cultivating Foods Systems for a Changing Climate. This book will be the basis for these interviews. Laura is the founder and principal of Cultivating Resilience which works with organizations of all kinds to integrate resilience thinking into assessment, operations and strategic planning. Trained as a soil scientist, Laura has 30 years of experience as a researcher, policymaker, educator, activist, and farmer. She has broad federal policy expertise gained through work as a U.S. Senate staffer, a USDA-ARS researcher, and a lobbyist advocating for sustainable agriculture in the U.S. Congress and was a lead author of the 2013 United States Department of Agriculture’s report, Climate Change and Agriculture in the United States: Effects and Adaptation. You can learn more about Cultivating Resilience and Laura here: cultivatingresilience.com The intro and outro music for this episode is from a clip of a song called ‘Father Let Your Kingdom Come’ which is found on The Porter’s Gate Worship Project Work Songs album and is used by permission by The Porter’s Gate Worship Project.

In this episode and the next I interview Dr. Laura Lengnick about resilient agriculture. Resilient agriculture is a step beyond sustainable agriculture and is being developed as a correction to industrial agriculture and in response to climate change. Dr. Lengnick is the author of Resilient Agriculture: Expanded and Updated Second Edition: Cultivating Foods Systems for a Changing Climate. This book will be the basis for these interviews. Laura is the founder and principal of Cultivating Resilience which works with organizations of all kinds to integrate resilience thinking into assessment, operations and strategic planning. Trained as a soil scientist, Laura has 30 years of experience as a researcher, policymaker, educator, activist, and farmer. She has broad federal policy expertise gained through work as a U.S. Senate staffer, a USDA-ARS researcher, and a lobbyist advocating for sustainable agriculture in the U.S. Congress and was a lead author of the 2013 United States Department of Agriculture’s report, Climate Change and Agriculture in the United States: Effects and Adaptation. You can learn more about Cultivating Resilience and Laura here: cultivatingresilience.com The intro and outro music for this episode is from a clip of a song called ‘Father Let Your Kingdom Come’ which is found on The Porter’s Gate Worship Project Work Songs album and is used by permission by The Porter’s Gate Worship Project.

This episode checks in with Choristers Guild. I began my ministry in church music in the late-1970s and early 1980s, and Choristers Guild was a primary source I turned to for wonderful and high-quality children’s Christian music. Back then, church music was organized around graded choirs and music ensembles. But during the mid-1970s and early 1980s, the “seeker” churches grew rapidly and with them the use of “contemporary” Christian music. During the 1990s “contemporary” Christian music became dominant. The result, often, was the loss of graded choir programs. In its origins, Choristers Guild had a strong focus on children’s music. This episode seeks to learn of the state of things in church music and how Choristers Guild is navigating the challenges of the current situation with Christianity in the United States and music ministry. My guests are Katie Houts and Mark Burrows. Katie has worked with Mark in editing some of his music pieces. Katie Houts is the Sacred Choral and Curriculum Editor for Choristers Guild. Serving CG since 2013, Katie curates and edits sacred choral anthems, collections, musicals, curriculum, and teaching resources; she also serves on the faculty of the Choristers Guild Institute. She studied music at Wartburg College (Waverly, IA), where she majored in Church Music (Organ) and Religion. She has served in ELCA, UCC, and UMC congregations as Director of Music, Worship Curator, Organist, and Children’s Choir Director. Katie is a published composer, professional accompanist, and a frequent clinician at sacred conferences throughout the country. She currently serves on ACDA’s National Committee for Composition Initiatives, working to support and champion the work of living choral composers. Katie is based in Salt Lake City, where she leads choral ensembles throughout the community, including Rise Up Children’s Choir – Utah’s premiere contemporary vocal performance group for ages 6-18. She conducts RUCC’s intermediate ensemble, Rise Up Ignite, and is the assistant director and accompanist for the advanced mixed children’s choir. She also teaches second grade music and directs the 5th and 6th grade choirs at Wasatch Charter School (Holladay, UT). What Choristers Guild and other publishers say about Mark Burrows is this: Mark Burrows (b. 1971) is a composer and clinician whose works are published by many major houses, including The Lorenz Corporation, Shawnee Press, Abingdon Press, Choristers Guild and Warner Brothers. Several works, such as the Gettin’ Down with Mama Goose Series, The Body Electric, and Outside the Lines top many best-seller lists. Known to little listeners as “Mister Mark” he tours the country performing concerts for children and families. His three children’s albums – You’ve got a Song, Go Ape!, and Go, Galileo! – have won a total of nine national awards. His songs can be heard on XM Radio, and one song, Amazon Rock, was recently recorded by Nick Records for a Dora the Explorer album. Mark is currently the Director of Children’s Ministries at First United Methodist Church – Fort Worth, Texas, where he leads the weekly Children’s Message, a monthly worship service for families called Children First, and directs the 65-voice Youth Choir. Mark received his undergraduate degree in music education from Southern Methodist University, and his graduate degree in conducting from Texas Christian University. He lives in Fort Worth with his wife, Nina, and their two daughters, Emma and Grace. What Mark prefers to say about himself is this: Mark loves traveling the country reminding people how amazing they are and how, together, they can do amazing things! While Mark does not have perfect pitch, he does have “perfect dynamics.” He can tell, just by listening, if a piece of music is loud or soft. Mark loves cinnamon rolls and tacos but can’t stand peas. He’s a Ravenclaw, and he adores classical music (especially Haydn for his sense of humor). Current musical acts he’s into right now are Lake Street Dive, Jon Batiste, and Cosmo Sheldrake. He owns 10 pairs of Converse high-tops, but sometimes he mix-matches to make even more pairs! Mark lives in Fort Worth, Texas with his wife Nina. And he occasionally feels sorry for himself that their daughters, Emma and Grace, have moved away to college so they can become a nurse and music therapist respectively, and save the world. The use of Mark’s anthems, Seeds, and I Am Home, is with permission from Choristers Guild. The intro and outro music for this episode is from a clip of a song called ‘Father Let Your Kingdom Come’ which is found on The Porter’s Gate Worship Project Work Songs album and is used by permission by The Porter’s Gate Worship Project.