Advertise on podcast: Beyond the Score with John Kleeman

As AI reshapes the workplace, organizations need better ways to prove people have the skills required to do the job, not just that they’ve completed training. In this episode of Beyond the Score, Mike Bollinger of Cornerstone OnDemand joins us to explore how assessment, skills, and AI are converging to redefine workforce readiness.  The conversation looks at why demonstrated competence is replacing time spent as the measure that matters, and how assessments are increasingly used to support compliance, reduce risk, and create defensible evidence in hiring and promotion decisions. We also discuss how AI is changing roles without eliminating the need for human judgment, critical thinking, and durable skills—and what this means for learning, certification, and workforce development. From high-stakes assessment to personalized learning and continuous readiness, this episode examines why proving skills is essential in a rapidly evolving world of work.  Mike referenced several reports and resources during the episode that provide additional context and deeper insight. Links are included below: https://www.cornerstoneondemand.com/resources/article/skills-economy-report-2026/https://www.cornerstoneondemand.com/resources/article/global-state-skills-economy-2024/https://www.cornerstoneondemand.com/company/news-room/press-releases/hidden-ai-lack-of-training-keeps-ai-use-in-the-shadows-despite-ai-usage-encouragement-from-employers/

From scaling PSI through 30+ acquisitions to reshaping assessment delivery, Assessment Industry Executive Steve Tapp joins John Kleeman for a powerful conversation. Steve offers powerful reflections on leadership, company culture, and the importance of keeping both your clients and your people at the center of every strategic decision.

To kick off the first episode of our revamped podcast series, host John Kleeman goes beyond the score with Melissa Loble, Chief Academic Officer at Instructure, who shares the three pillars guiding Instructure’s AI strategy; opportunities for making AI an enabler of lifelong learning; and how AI is being used to empower people, not replace them.

In this episode of Unlocking the Potential of Assessments, John Kleeman sits down with Timothy McClinton, CEO of Meazure Learning, to explore the future of remote proctoring and its impact on the assessment industry. Tim shares insights on how Meazure Learning has evolved, the role of AI in improving test security, and the importance of providing flexible, secure, and inclusive testing solutions for a global audience. Whether you're curious about the latest advancements in proctoring technology or looking to understand how remote testing is reshaping education, this episode offers valuable takeaways for industry professionals.

Join host John Kleeman in an insightful conversation with Dr. Ada Woo, VP of Innovative Learning Sciences at Ascend Learning and seasoned expert in assessment and psychometrics. Dr. Woo shares her journey from aspiring clinical psychologist to becoming a leading figure in the assessment industry. They discuss various topics like the role of psychometrics, the importance of fair and reliable assessments, the impact of test anxiety, and the evolution of fairness in testing. Dr. Woo also delves into the integration of AI in assessment and learning, emphasizing the need for adaptability and innovation in the field. Tune in for a deep dive into the complexities and advancements in educational and professional assessments.

Join host John Kleeman in an insightful conversation with Carla Aerts, a trailblazer in the reinvention of education. Carla, with an unconventional journey from the performing arts to education technology, shares her accidental foray into the sector and delves into the importance of making impactful contributions to teaching and learning. Carla explains what "perfect EdTech" looks like to her and critiques traditional exam-style assessments, advocating for a shift towards formative assessments and diverse models that prioritize skills, collaboration, and social engagement. The discussion extends to the role of AI in education and Carla's predictions of how it will impact the future. The episode concludes with three key takeaways: the significance of social learning, the need for skills development in reflection and metacognitive thinking, and the promotion of learner agency for effective lifelong learning. Tune in for a thought-provoking exploration of education, technology, and assessments, guided by Carla Aerts' forward-thinking perspectives.

John Kleeman welcomes Sonny Yuen, Senior Director of Product Strategy at Workday, to discuss the value of assessments in the world of e-learning and corporate learning. Sonny's impressive background includes roles at major e-learning companies, and he shares insights into the field. Together, they delve into the significance of assessments in the learning process and how assessments are integral to verifying competence and capabilities. The discussion covers Questionmark's integration with Workday, AI's role in learning, recommendations for setting up successful learning programs, and the importance of diversity, equity, and inclusion in learning. Sonny emphasizes the need to involve stakeholders and suggests that organizations allocate dedicated time for self-elective learning to foster professional development. Listen now to explore the evolving landscape of corporate learning and how technology plays a crucial role in optimizing the learning experience. Interested in learning more about us? Talk to us at questionmark.com

Host John Kleeman is joined by John Weiner, an expert in the assessment industry with four decades of experience. Until recently, he was Chief Science Officer at PSI, and now has the same role at its parent company, Lifelong Learner Holdings. They explore the evolution of assessments from paper-based to technology-driven, highlighting shifts in workplace demands and educational needs. John shares his thoughts on fairness and its multiple dimensions, along with the challenges in measuring and ensuring it. The conversation dives into the impact of generative AI on assessments and the importance of critical thinking. He also shares his predictions of the future of the workforce as technology reshapes roles. Tune in for insights into the changing landscape of assessments and the exciting possibilities that lie ahead! Interested in learning more about us? Talk to us at questionmark.com

Host John Kleeman is joined by Mark Lynch, co-founder of Learnosity, a leading assessment technology company. Mark shares his accidental entry into the field of education and assessment, starting with his work on an assessment engine for the New South Wales Board of Education. He discusses the growth of Learnosity, highlighting their focus on solving hard problems and their early success in delivering highly accessible assessments. Mark emphasizes the importance of tackling the hardest problems in assessment, as solving them paves the way for addressing other challenges. He also talks about Learnosity's evolution and their work with governments and schools worldwide to deliver equitable assessments. The conversation delves into the future of assessment, particularly the role of AI in personalization and content creation. Mark acknowledges the potential of AI to improve accessibility and productivity in assessment, but also highlights the challenges associated with evolving standards and conflicting accessibility needs. He offers advice for those starting out in ed tech and much more! Interested in learning more about us? Talk to us at questionmark.com

We had the privilege of hosting Matt Wingfield, a renowned expert in the field of assessments and a Chairman of the e-Assessment Association. Speaking with our host, John Kleeman, Matt shares valuable insights into the world of e-assessment and its implications for education, certification and professional development. From an overview of the e-Assessment Association and its mission to promote and advocate for high-quality e-assessment practices worldwide to the growing importance of e-assessment in various sectors, he highlights its ability to enhance learning outcomes, improve efficiency and provide reliable and timely results. While privy to the potential concerns related to e-assessment- including issues of security, fairness and accessibility- Matt emphasizes the importance of a robust infrastructure, data protection and ethical considerations to ensure a trustworthy and inclusive assessment environment. He delves into the future of e-assessment, exploring the potential of artificial intelligence and machine learning in enhancing assessment practices. Matt envisions a future where e-assessment plays a central role in continuous learning and professional development, enabling individuals to showcase their skills and knowledge throughout their careers. Interested in learning more about us? Talk to us at questionmark.com

Maria Hamdani, Vice President of Assessment and Research at the Center for Measurement Justice, joins John Kleeman to discuss the role of assessments in promoting equity and justice in education and employment. She shares her insights on how assessments can be designed and administered in a way that is fair and unbiased, and how they can be used to identify and address systemic barriers to educational and professional success. Maria highlights the importance of including diverse perspectives and voices in the development of assessments, and the need to continuously review and update them to ensure they remain relevant and effective. She also discusses the challenges of balancing the need for standardization and consistency in assessments with the need to accommodate individual differences and contextual factors. Maria emphasizes the critical role that assessments can play in advancing social justice and equity, particularly in the context of medical education and licensure, and encourages educators and employers to embrace a holistic and collaborative approach to assessment design and implementation, one that is grounded in principles of fairness, transparency, and inclusivity. Want to know more about us? Talk to us at questionmark.com

John Kleeman is joined by assessment luminary, Norihisa Wada, executive adviser of EduLab in Japan, and director of the Japan Institute for Educational Measurement. Nori has experience with AI-driven voice recognition and has worked with Carnegie Mellon University and Kyoto University. He is also involved in EdTech investment. Delve into his insights on assessment and his background in the industry. Nori shares how he transitioned from his work on game development for consumer educational games and fitness games for Nintendo to the assessment industry, the future of assessments and gives advice on how assessment organizations can be more inclusive.

John Kleeman is joined by assessment luminary, Dr. Gary A. Gates, the Managing Director of Pearson VUE. Originally a nuclear physicist, Dr. Gates details his journey into the world of assessments. He discusses his key priorities going into his second year leading Pearson, the future of test centers during the rise of online proctoring and whether new AI technology is harmful or helpful to proctoring and assessments.

John Kleeman is joined by assessment luminary, Mike Olsen, the CEO and Founder of Proctorio. Mike discusses what drove him to create a company focused on proctoring, how it has expanded beyond the education sector, and how the tool can be used to address test fraud.

John Kleeman is joined by assessment luminary, Professor Phillip Dawson, the Associate Director of the Centre for Research in Assessment and Digital Learning (CRADLE) at Australia's Deakin University. With an academic background in education, artificial intelligence and cybersecurity, he leads CRADLE's work on cheating, academic integrity and assessment security. This work spans hacking and cheating on online exams, training academics to detect contract cheating, student use of study drugs, the effectiveness of legislation in stopping cheating and the evaluation of new assessment security technologies. Phillip shares his thoughts on constructing an assessment that gives feedback, reducing test cheating and the privacy concerns associated with remote proctoring.