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🎙 What Clients Actually Value (with Whitney Lowe & Til Luchau) Can a session be worthwhile even when the client’s pain score doesn’t change? Most of us judge our work by what’s easiest to measure: the pain scale, range of motion, how the technique went. But when a new review of 15 qualitative studies looked at what patients actually got from massage, osteopathic, and craniosacral work, they described much more—better sleep, less fatigue and anxiety, a sense of safety and belonging, and a changed relationship with their own bodies. Whitney and Til explore what shapes those experiences, why the evidence on technique versus relationship is more mixed than either camp might like, and what it all means in the treatment room. ✨ We talk about: • The details clients notice: being heard, time to talk, choices, temperature, lighting • When a client wants deeper pressure than you think is wise • Technique, relationship, or both? What therapeutic alliance research does and doesn’t show • Why a technique isn’t a pill • Pain versus distress: supporting the person when the number won’t change • Better questions than “How’s the pressure?”—and what to do with “fine” • A session arc: what would make it useful, feedback during, and “what’s different?” after ✨ And tell us what happened: ask one client what they value most about your sessions. Email us — we’d love to hear it. ✨ Resources: • Zhang et al., “Patients’ experiences and perceived outcomes of manual therapy,” Frontiers in Pain Research, 2026: https://doi.org/10.3389/fpain.2026.1767395 • Michael Balint, The Doctor, His Patient and the Illness (1957) 🌱 Sponsor Offers: • Jane – Try it free for one month with code THINKING1MO at https://a-t.tv/jane • ABMP – Save on new membership at https://abmp.com/thinking • Books of Discovery – Save 15% with code thinking at https://booksofdiscovery.com • Advanced-Trainings – Try one month free of the A-T Subscription with code thinking at https://a-t.tv/subscriptions • Academy of Clinical Massage – Grab Whitney's free Assessment Cheat Sheet at https://academyofclinicalmassage.com/cheatsheet ✨ Watch the video / connect with us: • YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@AdvancedTrainings/podcasts • Whitney Lowe – https://academyofclinicalmassage.com | https://facebook.com/WhitneyLowe | https://twitter.com/whitneylowe • Til Luchau – https://advanced-trainings.com | https://facebook.com/advancedtrainings | https://instagram.com/til.luchau 📧 Email us: [email protected] The Thinking Practitioner Podcast is intended for professional practitioners of manual and movement therapies — bodywork, massage therapy, structural integration, physical therapy, osteopathy, and similar professions. It is not medical or treatment advice.

🎙 Fascial Elves and Vikings (with Heike Oellerich & Miriam Wessels) Some people can fold themselves into almost any position but struggle to find stability; others feel strong and solid but can’t reach their toes—and the difference may start long before either of them ever trained. Most of us were taught to read range of motion as a story about training, habit, and nervous system protection. That story is not wrong, but it may be incomplete. What if some of what we feel under our hands is a connective-tissue starting point people arrive with—one that shapes what they are good at, what injures them, and what they actually need from us? Heike Oellerich and Miriam Wessels, founders of FASZIO in Hamburg, Germany, join Til and Whitney to lay out the model they developed with Robert Schleip: fascial elves and fascial Vikings. As they describe it, elves are loose, fluid, and stretchable, and tend to lose stability quickly; Vikings are dense, powerful, and elastic, and tend to hold. The idea grew out of the two of them arguing for years about what the same exercise was doing in the body—until they concluded they were both right, about different bodies. Where it gets useful is the treatment room. In their account, releasing an elf who has nothing to fall back on can take a person apart; releasing everything on a Viking removes stability they are actively using; and stiffness under the hand does not automatically call for more pressure. They’re also candid about the limits: the evidence is thin, Marfan and Ehlers-Danlos syndromes sit off the scale rather than at its far end, and—as Miriam puts it—at the end, we don’t know anything. It stays what they say it is: a useful concept, not a diagnosis. ✨ We talk about: • Where the elf and Viking idea came from: two colleagues arguing for years about what one exercise does • What an elf is, what a Viking is, and why they frame it as a scale rather than two boxes • Why they traded Robert Schleip’s “temple dancer” for the elf—and why temple dancers may be stiffer than we imagine • Mixed constitutions: Viking above the waist, elf below—and what they say that changes • Why elves may lose stability fast, and why Vikings may be the ones who need the yoga class • Releasing an elf who has no stability to fall back on—and how that can take someone apart • Working with a Viking without releasing the stability they’re actually using • Why stiffness doesn’t automatically call for deeper pressure—and what happens when we assume it does • Language that lands: clear, practical instruction for the client who thinks before feeling • The claim that tissue type travels with temperament—the most intriguing and least established part of the model • Hypermobility and proprioception, and where the usual stereotype may break down • “It’s only a concept”: what the evidence supports, what remains speculation, and why pathology sits off the scale entirely • “Love them all”—responding to the person on the table rather than to the catalog of techniques. ✨ A note on where this sits: Elves and Vikings is a working model, not an established finding—as Heike and Miriam say themselves. Some of what they describe, including fascia as the tissue that holds emotional history, goes beyond what current research supports. We let the model be laid out whole rather than pressing each claim in the moment; take it as a lens that may sharpen what you notice, and hold the mechanisms loosely. ✨ And tell us what happened: Are you an elf, a Viking, or neither—and how has that gone for you, in your own body and in your work? Email us—we’d love to hear it. ✨ Resources: • FASZIO—Heike Oellerich and Miriam Wessels’ fascia training and education: https://faszio.de • FYTT location, Hamburg—classes and trainings, with English pages: https://fytt-location.de/en/ • Miriam Wessels: https://miriamwessels.de • FASZIO on Instagram: https://instagram.com/faszio • Der Faszien-Code, Robert Schleip, Heike Oellerich, and Miriam Wessels (in German): https://www.amazon.de/dp/3742325132 🌱 Sponsor Offers: • Jane – Try it free for one month with code THINKING1MO at https://a-t.tv/jane • ABMP – Save on new membership at https://abmp.com/thinking • Books of Discovery – Save 15% with code thinking at https://booksofdiscovery.com • Advanced-Trainings – Try one month free of the A-T Subscription with code thinking at https://a-t.tv/subscriptions • Academy of Clinical Massage – Grab Whitney's free Assessment Cheat Sheet at https://academyofclinicalmassage.com/cheatsheet ✨ Watch the video / connect with us: • YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@AdvancedTrainings/podcasts • Whitney Lowe – https://academyofclinicalmassage.com | https://facebook.com/WhitneyLowe | https://twitter.com/whitneylowe • Til Luchau – https://advanced-trainings.com | https://facebook.com/advancedtrainings | https://instagram.com/til.luchau 📧 Email us: [email protected] The Thinking Practitioner Podcast is intended for professional practitioners of manual and movement therapies — bodywork, massage therapy, structural integration, physical therapy, osteopathy, and similar professions. It is not medical or treatment advice. Rolfing® is a registered service mark of the Dr. Ida Rolf Institute®.

🎙 Nerve Pain: Stop Blaming Compression (with Whitney Lowe & Til Luchau) Ask almost any manual therapist what they learned about nerves in school, and you get some version of the same answer: not much. Most of us were handed the wiring model. A nerve is a cable, it carries a signal, and there are two ways it goes wrong — something presses on it, or something pulls on it. It's a tidy picture, it's most of what our field has run on for decades, and it leaves out nearly everything that makes a nerve a nerve. Whitney and Til go under the sheath. A peripheral nerve turns out to be a living organ with its own blood supply, its own nerve supply, a fascial architecture that mirrors muscle, and a slow river of axoplasm moving proteins the length of an axon that may run three feet from your sacrum to your big toe. Once you see it that way, the clinical picture changes: the first thing a little compression does isn't block a signal, it stalls venous return, and the chemistry that follows is a big part of what your client actually feels. They get practical about what that means on the table — why there's an argument for getting on nerve problems sooner rather than waiting and seeing, why tensioners make better tests than treatments, why freeing the neighborhood usually beats going after the nerve itself, and why nerves respond to whispers rather than shouting. Along the way: fat wallet syndrome, updated for the age of the back-pocket phone; a rat pulling a lever for food, and the gentle hands-on work that kept it from developing nerve fibrosis; an enzyme sequestered since fetal development that can cause excruciating back pain while leaking out of a disc injury that may barely show up on imaging; a young Whitney in an Atlanta medical bookstore, broke, deciding to spring for a blue book called Mobilisation of the Nervous System; and a likely explanation for why your client feels it downstream of the problem. ✨ We talk about: - Why nerves got so little airtime in our training — and why the field is expanding into them now - Nerves as living organs: endoneurium, perineurium, epineurium, and why the architecture parallels muscle - Vasa nervorum and nervi nervorum — a nerve's own circulation, and its own sensation - The pressure sequence: venous flow stalls first, then arterial, then intraneural — and the "toxic soup" that follows - Neurapraxia, axonotmesis, neurotmesis — and why a damaged axon regrows at roughly a millimeter a day, about an inch a month - The argument for early treatment: heading things off before neuropathic pain turns nociplastic - Axonal transport, axoplasm, and double crush — what happens when you step on the garden hose - Geoffrey Bove's research: gentle, non-specific manual therapy that prevented nociceptor activity and neural fibrosis in a rat model - Tensioners vs. sliders — why one is the better test and the other the better treatment - Treat the container first: freeing a nerve's surroundings before mobilizing the nerve - A tour of the usual bottlenecks — scalene triangle, costoclavicular space, subpectoral, cubital tunnel, pronator teres, carpal tunnel - And below the belt: disc margins, deep rotators, the hamstring septum, the peroneal (fibular) division at the lateral knee, tarsal tunnel, and Baxter's neuropathy - Pronator teres or carpal tunnel? What night pain and pain location tell you - PLA2 and the leaking disc: severe nerve pain with little or nothing to see on imaging - Local and unilateral vs. bilateral and systemic — a fast screening principle, plus diabetes, chemotherapy, and thyroid on the list - The red flags you stop everything for: bilateral leg symptoms, saddle anesthesia, bowel or bladder changes - Why symptoms usually show up distal to the site of compression — and why that's a guideline, not a rule - Whispers, not shouting: less force, slower pace, and the gardener rather than the heavy equipment operator ✨ And tell us what happened: when you backed off the pressure and worked the nerve's neighborhood instead, what changed? Email us — we'd love to hear it. ✨ Resources: - David Butler, Mobilisation of the Nervous System — the classic that put neural mobilization into practitioners' hands - David Butler & Lorimer Moseley, Explain Pain: https://www.noigroup.com - Michael Shacklock, Clinical Neurodynamics - Bove GM, et al. "Manual therapy prevents onset of nociceptor activity, sensorimotor dysfunction, and neural fibrosis induced by a volitional repetitive task." PAIN, 2019: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30461558/ - Upton & McComas (1973), the original double crush paper in The Lancet - Trail Guide to the Body, 7th edition — with a new primer on the nervous system: https://booksofdiscovery.com - Whitney's assessment and clinical reasoning resources: https://academyofclinicalmassage.com - Til's trainings, CAMT certification, and subscription library: https://advanced-trainings.com 🌱 Sponsor Offers: - Jane – Try it free for one month with code THINKING1MO at https://a-t.tv/jane - ABMP – Save on new membership at https://abmp.com/thinking - Books of Discovery – Save 15% with code thinking at https://booksofdiscovery.com - Advanced-Trainings – Try one month free of the A-T Subscription with code thinking at https://a-t.tv/subscriptions - Academy of Clinical Massage – Grab Whitney's free Assessment Cheat Sheet at https://academyofclinicalmassage.com/cheatsheet ✨ Watch the video / connect with us: - YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@AdvancedTrainings/podcasts - Whitney Lowe – https://academyofclinicalmassage.com | https://facebook.com/WhitneyLowe | https://twitter.com/whitneylowe - Til Luchau – https://advanced-trainings.com | https://facebook.com/advancedtrainings | https://instagram.com/til.luchau 📧 Email us: [email protected] The Thinking Practitioner Podcast is intended for professional practitioners of manual and movement therapies — bodywork, massage therapy, structural integration, physical therapy, osteopathy, and similar professions. It is not medical or treatment advice.

🎙 Menopause, Pain, and Bodywork (with Ruth Werner) What if midlife achiness isn’t simply aging—and isn’t necessarily an injury that needs fixing? Menopause can affect far more than temperature. As hormones shift, sleep, mood, cognition, bone and cardiovascular health, pain, and tissue tolerance may all change. Yet most hands-on practitioners received little or no training about what this means for the people on their tables—or for practitioners going through menopause themselves. Pathology specialist Ruth Werner joins Til and Whitney to separate what we know from what we merely assume. They explore why hot flashes remain surprisingly mysterious, how declining estrogen may intersect with inflammation and musculoskeletal pain, and whether naming a “musculoskeletal syndrome of menopause” improves recognition or risks turning menopause into a catch-all explanation for midlife symptoms. Most importantly, they bring the conversation into the treatment room: adjusting expectations, avoiding unnecessary overwork, accounting for medications and longer-term health changes, and recognizing that listening and thoughtful support may be as valuable as anything we do with our hands. They also make room for menopause as more than loss or disruption—for many, it can be a passage into greater maturity, clarity, creativity, and freedom from others’ expectations. ✨ We talk about: • Why menopause is a normal transition, not a disease—and why its effects can still be profoundly disruptive • Perimenopause versus menopause, and why the transition can affect decades of a person’s life • What may be happening during a hot flash—and how much remains unknown • The difficult overlap between menopause, aging, pain, and injury • Estrogen’s possible roles in inflammation and musculoskeletal health • The promise and limitations of the term “musculoskeletal syndrome of menopause” • Practical session considerations: temperature, osteoporosis, cardiovascular health, medications, and tissue sensitivity • Why changing our expectations may matter more than trying to “correct” hormonal effects • Listening, validation, and the therapeutic alliance when clients feel dismissed elsewhere • Menopause as a potentially powerful, creative, and liberating stage of life. 🎓 Continue with the complete course: This episode offers a useful overview and key takeaways. Ruth’s complete 85-minute course, Menopause for Bodyworkers, goes deeper into the physiology, symptoms, treatment options, research, and hands-on implications. It includes the full presentation and discussion, course handout, quiz, and one continuing-education credit. Purchase it individually—or access it at no additional cost with an Advanced-Trainings subscription—at https://advanced-trainings.com. ✨ Resources: • Ruth Werner’s courses, writing, and resources: https://ruthwerner.com • I Have a Client Who… Pathology Conversations with Ruth Werner: https://ruthwerner.com/podcast/ • Vonda Wright and colleagues, “The Musculoskeletal Syndrome of Menopause”: https://doi.org/10.1080/13697137.2024.2380363 • Advanced-Trainings courses and subscription library: https://advanced-trainings.com 🌱 Sponsor Offers: • Jane – Try it free for one month with code THINKING1MO at https://a-t.tv/jane • ABMP – Save on new membership at https://abmp.com/thinking • Books of Discovery – Save 15% with code thinking at https://booksofdiscovery.com • Advanced-Trainings – Try one month free of the A-T Subscription with code thinking at https://a-t.tv/subscriptions • Academy of Clinical Massage – Grab Whitney's free Assessment Cheat Sheet at https://academyofclinicalmassage.com/cheatsheet ✨ Watch the video / connect with us: • YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@AdvancedTrainings/podcasts • Whitney Lowe – https://academyofclinicalmassage.com | https://facebook.com/WhitneyLowe | https://twitter.com/whitneylowe • Til Luchau – https://advanced-trainings.com | https://facebook.com/advancedtrainings | https://instagram.com/til.luchau 📧 Email us: [email protected] The Thinking Practitioner Podcast is intended for professional practitioners of manual and movement therapies — bodywork, massage therapy, structural integration, physical therapy, osteopathy, and similar professions. It is not medical or treatment advice. Rolfing® is a registered service mark of the Dr. Ida Rolf Institute®.

🎙 Clinical Reasoning, or Clinical Improvisation? (with Whitney Lowe & Til Luchau) Every good protocol, recipe, or routine is designed to be outgrown. The trouble is that almost nobody tells you when. Protocols are how most of us learned: a sequence, a recipe, a named technique for a named condition. They reduce cognitive load when you’re new, they keep you and your client safe, and they let you know what to do next. And then, at some point, they start to get in the way — because real clients are complicated, and they rarely arrive looking like the textbook. Whitney and Til work through what they’re calling the protocol paradox: why structure is essential early on, why it has to loosen for real clinical skill to develop, and how to tell which side of that line you’re standing on. They get practical about it too — how to catch the moment a routine is running you instead of the other way around, what to do when the technique you were taught doesn’t work or makes things worse, and why every hunch and every thing you feel under your fingers counts as assessment data. Along the way: a young Rolfer told that moving arm work earlier in the series “speaks of hubris”; a Sufi sect that shook their left foot for generations because the founder had a sticky sandal; Ida Rolf’s cook-versus-chef distinction; Whitney and Til comparing notes on the difference between detective work and flower arranging; and how AI tutors might finally solve continuing education’s oldest problem — the 20-year-old new grad sitting next to the nurse with 20 years in. ✨ We talk about: • What protocols actually do for beginners — cognitive load, safety guardrails, and a sense of belonging • A practical test for whether you’ve outgrown one: habit, protocol, or an actual reason for this person? • What to do when the neck technique you learned doesn’t work — or causes a reaction • Assessment as an ongoing loop, not an intake ritual: “it’s all assessment” • Symptom chasing vs. detective work — and why the leg that hurts often isn’t where the story starts • Til’s reframe: a flower arrangement of what the client brings you, rather than a Jenga tower of stacked reasoning • Technique narratives that outlived the physiology that was supposed to explain them • Stories from the Rolf legacy: orthodoxy vs. reform, and the principles-based experiment that didn’t survive contact with beginners • The massage school that turned down an experienced teacher for being too experienced • Clinical reasoning — or clinical improvisation? Two names for the same advanced skill • The confidence paradox: you need enough certainty to act, and enough openness to be wrong • Scales, Coltrane, and why “improvisation” never meant winging it • Newtonian and quantum, both true at once — the physics analogy for holding two models at the same time • Culture and structure: Swiss students who needed the notebook first (and then shuffled its pages), shakuhachi players with no tradition of improvising, and Singapore buying its way back to innovation • A clinical reasoning skill to try this week. ✨ And tell us what happened: when you paused at that moment of not-knowing, what came next? Email us — we’d love to hear it. ✨ Resources: • Dr. Ida Rolf Institute: https://rolf.org • Ida Rolf’s Ten Series — the “recipe,” and the decades of debate about it • Esalen Institute — “get out of your head and come to your senses”: https://www.esalen.org • Cognitive load theory and what it means for hands-on teaching • Paul St. John and the neuromuscular therapy community • Trail Guide to the Body, 7th edition (Books of Discovery): https://booksofdiscovery.com • Whitney’s Socratic AI tutors and personalized learning paths: https://academyofclinicalmassage.com • Til’s trainings, CAMT certification, and subscription library: https://advanced-trainings.com 🌱 Sponsor Offers: • Jane – Try it free for one month with code THINKING1MO at https://a-t.tv/jane • ABMP – Save on new membership at https://abmp.com/thinking • Books of Discovery – Save 15% with code thinking at https://booksofdiscovery.com • Advanced-Trainings – Try one month free of the A-T Subscription with code thinking at https://a-t.tv/subscriptions • Academy of Clinical Massage – Grab Whitney’s free Assessment Cheat Sheet at https://academyofclinicalmassage.com/cheatsheet ✨ Watch the video / connect with us: • YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@AdvancedTrainings/podcasts • Whitney Lowe – https://academyofclinicalmassage.com | https://facebook.com/WhitneyLowe | https://twitter.com/whitneylowe • Til Luchau – https://advanced-trainings.com | https://facebook.com/advancedtrainings | https://instagram.com/til.luchau 📧 Email us: [email protected] The Thinking Practitioner Podcast is intended for professional practitioners of manual and movement therapies — bodywork, massage therapy, structural integration, physical therapy, osteopathy, and similar professions. It is not medical or treatment advice. Rolfing® is a registered service mark of the Dr. Ida Rolf Institute®.

🎙 Becoming Friends with Movement (with Nuria Bowart) 📌 Save the date: early December 2026 in Boulder, Colorado — as a result of their discussion here, Til and Nuria are teaching a collaborative workshop for bodyworkers, hands-on and moving, both. Details to come at https://advanced-trainings.com Tell Nuria you’re “not really a mover” and she won’t argue. She’ll just say: maybe you’ve forgotten. Most of us learned to work on bodies that hold still. Nuria Bowart — dancer, movement artist, Certified Rolfer, and a Mestra in Capoeira — lives at the opposite pole, where the body is always moving, listening, and playing. Til sits down with her to explore a deceptively simple question: how can those of us who work with our hands become better friends with movement — not as one more thing we prescribe, but as listening, relationship, play, and a way of being more at home in ourselves? Along the way they get into Fascial Intelligence, the Axis Syllabus, Contact Improvisation, and Capoeira — and what each one teaches about touch, agency, aging, and befriending the unknown. ✨ We talk about: • Why “maybe you’ve just forgotten” is Nuria’s answer to anyone who doesn’t think of themselves as a mover • Fascia as a constellation of intelligences — and listening as the core point of access • What changes when we start with the body’s design and options, instead of fixing • What Contact Improvisation reveals about weight, gravity, and arriving together in the present moment • Capoeira as a healing art: play, risk, vulnerability, and responding creatively to danger • Aging as a “mystery school” — and movement as the micronutrient of longevity • A simple practice for the week: finding the moment you don’t know what to do, and staying there to listen ✨ Resources: • Nuria’s website: https://www.nuriabowart.com • Nuria on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/nuriabowart • Berkeley Capoeira Collective: https://berkeleycapoeira.com • The Field Center, Vermont • The Axis Syllabus: https://www.axissyllabus.net | US events: https://axissyllab.us • Axis Syllabus literature and texts: https://www.axissyllabusforum.org/literature • Axis Syllabus socials: https://www.instagram.com/axissyllab.us | https://www.facebook.com/AxisSyllabusResearchMeshwork • Frey Faust, founder of the Axis Syllabus • Bonnie Bainbridge Cohen & Body-Mind Centering; Sensing, Feeling, and Action (Contact Quarterly) • Nita Little & the Institute for the Study of Somatic Communication — hear her in episode 140 of The Thinking Practitioner 🌱 Sponsor Offers: • Jane – Try it free for one month with code THINKING1MO at https://a-t.tv/jane • ABMP – Save on new membership at https://abmp.com/thinking • Books of Discovery – Save 15% with code thinking at https://booksofdiscovery.com • Advanced-Trainings – Try one month free of the A-T Subscription with code thinking at https://a-t.tv/subscriptions • Academy of Clinical Massage – Grab Whitney’s free Assessment Cheat Sheet at https://academyofclinicalmassage.com/cheatsheet ✨ Watch the video / connect with us: • YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@AdvancedTrainings/podcasts • Whitney Lowe – https://academyofclinicalmassage.com | https://facebook.com/WhitneyLowe | https://twitter.com/whitneylowe • Til Luchau – https://advanced-trainings.com | https://facebook.com/advancedtrainings | https://instagram.com/til.luchau 📧 Email us: [email protected] The Thinking Practitioner Podcast is intended for professional practitioners of manual and movement therapies — bodywork, massage therapy, structural integration, physical therapy, osteopathy, and similar professions. It is not medical or treatment advice. Rolfing® is a registered service mark of the Dr. Ida Rolf Institute®.

🎙 The Affection Question (with Kory Floyd) How many of your clients come to you, week after week, not just for their shoulder or their low back — but because yours may be the one space in their life where they feel truly touched, attended to, and seen? Roughly 40% of people report not getting enough affection in their lives. And research suggests that for our older clients, that number is likely even higher. To explore what that means for our work, Til sits down with Dr. Kory Floyd — professor and chair of human development at Washington State University, and one of the world’s leading researchers on affection and human connection. He created Affection Exchange Theory, wrote The Loneliness Cure along with more than a dozen other books, and makes a striking case that affection isn’t a luxury or a nicety — it’s a biological need with measurable consequences for our health. Drawing on his own recent experiences of loss and loneliness, Til turns toward something that sits underneath almost everything we do as bodyworkers but that we rarely name out loud: the simple, profound human need to be touched, cared for, and connected to. ✨ We talk about: • Affection deprivation — the gap between the affection we need and what we actually receive, and why roughly 40% of people report not getting enough • Why age (not gender, education, or geography) is the strongest predictor — and what that means for our older clients • How deprivation erodes our sense of safety, fueling hypervigilance, poor sleep, and a weakened immune response • Why — to the body — professional touch and intimate touch aren’t so different, as long as it feels safe • What lives inside the therapeutic “boundary”: validation, normalizing, listening, attunement, and a felt sense of being seen • Transference, counter-transference, and the difference between "genuine" affection and what Kory calls being “affection-adjacent” • Being “touched out” — and why the giver of affection may benefit even more than the receiver • Each person’s range of tolerance, why too much touch can also be aversive, and why attunement matters more than quantity • Touch as the first sense to develop and the last to fade — and why it’s the most essential to our survival • Boundaries that keep the heart open, and why our table may be the one place a client truly feels heard ✨ Resources: • Kory Floyd’s book, The Loneliness Cure • Learn more about his research at koryfloyd.com 🌱 Sponsor Offers: • Jane – Try it free for one month with code THINKING1MO at a-t.tv/jane • ABMP – Save on new membership at abmp.com/thinking • Books of Discovery – Save 15% with code thinking at booksofdiscovery.com • Advanced-Trainings – Try one month free of the A-T Subscription with code thinking at a-t.tv/subscriptions • Academy of Clinical Massage – Grab Whitney’s free Assessment Cheat Sheet at academyofclinicalmassage.com/cheatsheet ✨ Watch the video / connect with us: • YouTube: youtube.com/@AdvancedTrainings/podcasts • Whitney Lowe – academyofclinicalmassage.com | facebook.com/WhitneyLowe | twitter.com/whitneylowe • Til Luchau – advanced-trainings.com | facebook.com/advancedtrainings | instagram.com/til.luchau 📧 Email us: [email protected] The Thinking Practitioner Podcast is intended for professional practitioners of manual and movement therapies — bodywork, massage therapy, structural integration, physical therapy, osteopathy, and similar professions. It is not medical or treatment advice.

🎙 How to Bend Time (with Til Luchau & Whitney Lowe) There’s a moment in many good sessions when the clock stops mattering — breathing deepens, your hands settle, and time itself seems to change. Til recently wrote about this as “bending time,” and here he and Whitney explore it as a practical, therapeutic part of hands-on work. They get into how time perception is tied to body state, attention, and interoception; how the practitioner’s own state sets the tempo; and how to work slowly without losing focus, while still respecting the real limits of a 30-, 60-, or 90-minute session. ✨ Topics: • What that timeless shift feels like from the practitioner’s side • Why the practitioner often enters the state first — and how the client entrains to it • Timelessness vs. clock-watching: why it’s not the same as zoning out or falling asleep • Interoception, age, and “clock speed”: why our sense of duration is so elastic • Meeting clients at their rhythm before inviting a shift (follow, follow, lead) • Jan Sultan’s “most important move in Rolfing” — keeping the big-picture overview • Landing the plane: giving clients a heads-up to ease the transition out • Slow doesn’t mean vague: clearer attention, better timing, realistic plans • Presence and compassion as part of skill — and the people hardest to love • A this-week experiment: pause and feel your own body before you touch ✨ Resources: • Til Luchau, “Bending Time: The Therapeutic Power of Timelessness,” Massage & Bodywork magazine (Somatic Edge column) — https://www.abmp.com/massage-and-bodywork-magazine/issues/summer-2026/bending-time • Marc Wittmann, “The Inner Experience of Time,” Philosophical Transactions of the Royal Society B (2009) • E. P. Thompson, “Time, Work-Discipline, and Industrial Capitalism,” Past & Present (1967) • Fantastic Voyage (1966) — the “miniature journey inside the body” film referenced in the episode 🌱 Sponsor Offers: • Jane – Try the Jane practice management app free for one month with code THINKING1MO at https://a-t.tv/jane • Deep Roots Massage & Bodywork – Save 10% on continuing education with code THINKING at https://deeprootsmb.com • ABMP – Save $24 on new membership at https://abmp.com/thinking • Books of Discovery – Save 15% with code thinking at https://booksofdiscovery.com/ • Advanced-Trainings – Try one month free of the A-T Subscription with code thinking at https://a-t.tv/subscriptions/ • Academy of Clinical Massage – Grab Whitney’s free Assessment Cheat Sheet at https://academyofclinicalmassage.com/cheatsheet ✨ Watch the video / connect with us: • Whitney Lowe – https://academyofclinicalmassage.com | https://facebook.com/WhitneyLowe | https://twitter.com/whitneylowe | https://www.youtube.com/@whitlowe • Til Luchau – https://advanced-trainings.com | https://facebook.com/advancedtrainings | https://instagram.com/til.luchau | https://www.youtube.com/@AdvancedTrainings/podcasts 📧 Email us: [email protected] The Thinking Practitioner Podcast is intended for professional practitioners of manual and movement therapies — bodywork, massage therapy, structural integration, physical therapy, osteopathy, and similar professions. It is not medical or treatment advice. Rolfing® is a registered trademark of the Dr. Ida Rolf Institute.

🎙 Lateral Hip Pain: Stop Blaming the Bursa (with Whitney Lowe & Til Luchau) Til and Whitney unpack why the old “trochanteric bursitis” diagnosis is almost always wrong—and what that means for your hands-on treatment. ✨ Topics discussed include: • The shift from bursitis to tendinopathy: only about 8% of lateral hip cases involve true bursitis; the majority are gluteus medius/minimus tendinopathies compressed under the IT band • Why women are affected at a 4:1 ratio—declining estrogen, wider pelvis geometry, and IT band bowstringing • Why direct deep pressure on the greater trochanter can backfire—neural sprouting, pain prediction, and the GPR83 pathway • Smarter treatment: targeting gluteus maximus and TFL to reduce IT band compression, rather than trying to “loosen” the band itself • Simple assessment tools: the 30-second single leg stance, the shoelace test, and the bilateral night pain pattern • Stretching caution: why aggressive IT band stretching increases the very compression you’re trying to relieve 🌱 Sponsor Offers: • Jane App — Practice management built for health and wellness practitioners. Thinking Practitioner listeners get a free first month; enter code THINKING1MO at checkout: https://a-t.tv/jane • Deep Roots Massage & Bodywork — Carefully crafted, small hands-on CE workshops in Keene, NH. Save 10% with code THINKING: https://deeprootsmb.com • ABMP — Associated Bodywork & Massage Professionals. Thinking Practitioner listeners save at https://www.abmp.com/thinking • Books of Discovery — Explore their collection at https://www.booksofdiscovery.com and save 15% with code THINKING • Advanced-Trainings — Try one month free of Til Luchau’s A-T Subscription with code THINKING: https://a-t.tv/subscriptions/ • Academy of Clinical Massage — Grab Whitney’s free Assessment Cheat Sheet: https://academyofclinicalmassage.com/cheatsheet ✨ Watch the video / connect with us: • Whitney Lowe – https://academyofclinicalmassage.com | https://facebook.com/WhitneyLowe | https://twitter.com/whitneylowe | https://www.youtube.com/@whitlowe  • Til Luchau – https://advanced-trainings.com | https://facebook.com/advancedtrainings | https://instagram.com/til.luchau | https://www.youtube.com/@AdvancedTrainings/podcasts  📧 Email us: [email protected] The Thinking Practitioner Podcast is intended for professional practitioners of manual and movement therapies — bodywork, massage therapy, structural integration, physical therapy, osteopathy, and similar professions. It is not medical or treatment advice.

🎙 The Most Skipped Step in Assessment and Why It Matters Most  What if the most important part of your assessment never involves touching your client? In this solo episode, Whitney dives deep into the client history — the most critical yet frequently overlooked component of manual therapy assessment. While many practitioners rush straight into orthopedic testing or treat only where it hurts, the subjective intake holds the primary keys to understanding why a client is in pain, not just where. Whitney walks through the OPQRST history-taking framework — a structured clinical checklist covering Onset, Provocation/Palliation, Quality, Referral/Radiation, Severity, and Timing. Along the way, he shares vivid clinical examples showing how tuning your ears and brain to a client’s story can dramatically refine your physical assessment, catch crucial red flags, and help you design safer, more targeted treatment plans. ✨ Topics discussed include: • The assessment illusion — why jumping straight to orthopedic tests or treating where it hurts undermines true clinical reasoning. • O is for Onset — distinguishing acute biomechanical tissue overloads (like sudden eccentric muscle strains) from chronic, nociplastic pain conditions driven by systemic inflammation or cumulative load. • P is for Provocation & Palliation — reading structural mechanical patterns, such as differentiating discogenic spine pain from facet-related pain and the “shopping cart sign.” • Q is for Quality — why you should let clients describe pain in their own words, and what neuropathic “electrical shocks” reveal versus deep, arthritic joint aches. • R is for Referral & Radiation — tracking diffuse trigger point patterns versus localized entrapments, plus a modern clinical look at lateral hip pain: bursitis versus abductor tendon compression. • S is for Severity & Functional Impact — shifting clinical focus from arbitrary 1–10 pain scales to objective functional indicators like sudden muscle inhibition or a joint giving way. • T is for Timing — deciphering the difference between early-morning stiffness that eases with movement and late-afternoon postural fatigue from a desk job. • Hands vs. head — why your ears and brain are just as important as your hands, and how this framework makes you more effective in less table time. ✨ Resources: • The OPQRST Clinical Assessment Protocol. Learn more in the Academy’s Orthopedic Medical Massage Specialist Program. 🌱 Sponsor Offers: • Jane App — Practice management built for health and wellness practitioners. Thinking Practitioner listeners get a free first month; enter code THINKING1MO at checkout: https://a-t.tv/jane • Deep Roots Massage & Bodywork — Carefully crafted, small hands-on CE workshops in Keene, NH. Save 10% with code THINKING: https://deeprootsmb.com • ABMP — Associated Bodywork & Massage Professionals. Thinking Practitioner listeners save at https://www.abmp.com/thinking • Books of Discovery — Explore their collection at https://www.booksofdiscovery.com and save 15% with code thinking • Advanced-Trainings — Try one month free of Til Luchau’s A-T Subscription with code thinking: https://a-t.tv/subscriptions/ • Academy of Clinical Massage — Grab Whitney’s free Assessment Cheat Sheet: https://academyofclinicalmassage.com/cheatsheet ✨ Watch the video / connect with us: • Whitney Lowe – https://academyofclinicalmassage.com | https://facebook.com/WhitneyLowe | https://twitter.com/whitneylowe | https://www.youtube.com/@whitlowe  • Til Luchau – https://advanced-trainings.com | https://facebook.com/advancedtrainings | https://instagram.com/til.luchau | https://www.youtube.com/@AdvancedTrainings/podcasts  📧 Email us: [email protected] The Thinking Practitioner Podcast is intended for professional practitioners of manual and movement therapies — bodywork, massage therapy, structural integration, physical therapy, osteopathy, and similar professions. It is not medical or treatment advice.

🎙 Exploring the Anterior Neck: (with Walt Fritz) Walt Fritz is a physical therapist who has been in practice since 1985 and has spent the last 30 years evolving from a traditional myofascial release (MFR) background into a collaborative, patient-led approach to manual therapy. He returns to The Thinking Practitioner to talk to Whitney about one of the most intimidating regions for manual therapists: the anterior neck. Walt shares his transition from the "clinician-as-expert" model to one rooted in shared decision-making, where the patient’s input on pressure, direction, and duration isn’t just welcomed—it’s the primary driver of the intervention. They discuss the "metatherapy" of the therapeutic relationship, the physiological realities of treating deep neck structures, and how to safely navigate the "danger triangle" of the throat to help patients with voice and swallowing disorders. ✨ Topics discussed include: Walt’s "Counter-Culture" Evolution: Moving from the myofascial release "rabbit hole" to a more generalized, neurocentric manual therapy model. The Clinician-as-Expert vs. Shared Decision-Making: Why we should stop pretending we know exactly what a patient is feeling. Metatherapy & Carl Rogers: How the relationship and context of the treatment can be as important (or more so) than the technique itself. Navigating the Anterior Neck: Understanding the anatomy of the "danger triangle," including the carotid sheath, jugular vein, and vagus nerve. Treatment for Voice and Swallowing: How manual therapy can assist with dysphagia (swallowing disorders) and globus pharyngeus (the sensation of a lump in the throat). The "Emergency Exit Strategy": Empowering patients with the ability to stop or modify treatment at any second to ensure safety and comfort. Platysma: The Forgotten Muscle: Why superficial structures deserve more love in our clinical assessments. The Problem with High-Force Interventions: A critique of aggressive MFR techniques and the importance of patient-led pressure. ✨ Resources: Walt Fritz’s Website: https://WaltFritz.com Leah Helou (University of Pittsburgh): Research on "Metatherapy" Carl Rogers (1957): Landmark paper on the necessary and sufficient conditions of therapeutic change Freedom to Learn: Book by Carl Rogers Harry von Piekartz: Research and texts on craniofacial pain Cochrane Review: Massage for Mechanical Neck Disorders Walt's Google Drive folder with key papers 🌱 Sponsor Offers: Deep Roots Massage & Bodywork: Save 10% on upcoming classes in Keene, NH, with code THINKING at https://deeprootsmb.com Jane App — Practice management built for health and wellness practitioners. Thinking Practitioner listeners get a free first month; enter code THINKING1MO at checkout: https://a-t.tv/jane ABMP — Associated Bodywork & Massage Professionals. Thinking Practitioner listeners save at https://www.abmp.com/thinking Books of Discovery — Explore their collection at https://www.booksofdiscovery.com and save 15% with code thinking Academy of Clinical Massage — Grab Whitney’s free Assessment Cheat Sheet at https://academyofclinicalmassage.com/cheatsheet Advanced-Trainings — Try one month free of Til Luchau’s A-T Subscription with code thinking: https://a-t.tv/subscriptions/ ✨ Watch the video / connect with us: YouTube: The Thinking Practitioner Playlist Whitney Lowe: Academy of Clinical Massage | Facebook Til Luchau: Advanced-Trainings.com | Instagram 📧 Email us: [email protected] The Thinking Practitioner Podcast is intended for professional practitioners of manual and movement therapies — bodywork, massage therapy, structural integration, physical therapy, osteopathy, and similar professions. It is not medical or treatment advice.

🎙What if the key to resolving your client’s back pain isn’t loosening things up — but “adding” stiffness? Dr. Stuart McGill is one of the preeminent back pain researchers in the world, and in this conversation, he makes his case — passionately and controversially — for why biomechanical factors deserve far more attention than they typically get in back pain assessment and treatment. He argues that the label “nonspecific low back pain” masks what a skilled clinician could find with a thorough enough assessment, and that too many patients with real mechanical issues are being dismissed as psychosocial cases. Not everyone in the field agrees, but his perspective is fascinating, clinically detailed, and full of provocative ideas for manual therapists. This episode originally aired as episode 97 and quickly became one of our most popular — a listener favorite we’re bringing back for those who missed it and those who are ready for a second listen. ✨ Topics covered in this episode include: • Why Dr. McGill believes “nonspecific low back pain” doesn’t exist — and how he argues it undermines both research validity and clinical outcomes • The problem with averaging results across non-homogeneous groups in back pain studies • How a thorough assessment can reveal specific pain pathways — and McGill’s case for why a psychosocial diagnosis is too often a default when clinicians run out of ideas • Vivid clinical stories: a patient with a double pinch point, and the precise maneuver that resolved his symptoms • Why some patients need more stiffness, not less — and the “paradigm clash” this creates for manual therapists trained to mobilize and loosen • The prone instability test and other hands-on experiments for distinguishing when to stabilize versus mobilize • Dynamic video fluoroscopy of whiplash patients: the mid-range “clunk” that correlated with their symptoms • Fascial connections and trauma: how a physically traumatic event can produce bizarre-seeming symptoms that are mechanically trackable • Disc bulge mechanics demonstrated on a biofidelic model — how flexion drives nucleus posteriorly, and how traction with gentle motion can vacuum it back in • The Scannell study: why prone breathing may be just as effective as McKenzie press-ups for reducing disc bulges — without the facet joint cost • Inflammation and disc herniations: why the immune response to extruded nucleus may actually be helping, and why oral anti-inflammatories could prolong recovery • Distinguishing radiculopathy from peripheral neuropathy using creative clinical tests • Why the best manual therapists probe, feel, and adjust — and how that kinesthetic hypothesis-testing cycle is what separates good outcomes from poor ones ✨ Resources mentioned in this episode: • Dr. Stuart McGill’s website and clinician directory: https://www.backfitpro.com • Back Mechanic by Stuart McGill • Low Back Disorders by Stuart McGill • Dynamic Disc Designs (spine models): https://www.dynamicdiscdesigns.com 🌱 Sponsor Offers: • Jane App — Practice management built for health and wellness practitioners. Thinking Practitioner listeners get a free first month; enter code THINKING1MO at checkout: https://a-t.tv/jane • ABMP — Associated Bodywork & Massage Professionals. Thinking Practitioner listeners save at https://www.abmp.com/thinking • Books of Discovery — Explore their collection at https://www.booksofdiscovery.com and save 15% with code thinking • Advanced-Trainings — Try one month free of Til Luchau’s A-T Subscription with code thinking: https://a-t.tv/subscriptions/ • Academy of Clinical Massage — Grab Whitney’s free Assessment Cheat Sheet: https://academyofclinicalmassage.com/cheatsheet ✨ Watch the video / connect with us: • YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@AdvancedTrainings/podcasts • Til Luchau – https://advanced-trainings.com | https://facebook.com/advancedtrainings | https://instagram.com/til.luchau • Whitney Lowe – https://academyofclinicalmassage.com | https://facebook.com/WhitneyLowe | https://twitter.com/whitneylowe 📧 Email us: [email protected] The Thinking Practitioner Podcast is intended for professional practitioners of manual and movement therapies — bodywork, massage therapy, structural integration, physical therapy, osteopathy, and similar professions. It is not medical or treatment advice.

🎙Dr. Joi Edwards is a physical therapist with nearly 20 years of experience specializing in orthopedic injuries and a licensed massage therapist who bridges the gap between clinical assessment and intuitive soft-tissue work. She joins Whitney on The Thinking Practitioner to dive deep into the world of cupping therapy—exploring the physiological mechanisms, the various types of tools, and why this ancient modality is about much more than just leaving red marks on the skin. Joi’s fascination with cupping began in the clinic when she discovered the modality "pre-Michael Phelps" and noticed an immediate 15-degree increase in her own shoulder's range of motion after experimenting with the cups. Her journey was further shaped by international patients who shared how their families had used cupping for generations to treat everything from systemic colds to localized chronic pain. This episode is an exploration of how decompression—rather than the compression typically associated with massage—can restore tissue mechanics and stimulate a nervous system response that even the most skilled manual techniques sometimes can't replicate. ✨ Topics discussed include: Whitney and Joi walk through the different categories of cupping, the science of tissue decompression, and how to safely integrate cups into a clinical practice. Joi's transition from physical therapy to massage therapy—and why she felt compelled to integrate the two. The history of cupping: from hollowed-out animal horns used for "snake bites" to modern medical-grade silicone. Wet cupping (Hijama) vs. Dry cupping: understanding the scope of practice and the cultural significance of bloodletting. The physics of the "Pinch Grip" and "Donut Drop": how different application methods change the treatment. Decompression vs. Compression: how cups create space in the soft tissue to allow for better "glide and slide". What's in a circle? Capillary dilation and interstitial seepage vs. the misconception of traumatic bruising. The importance of assessment: why you shouldn't just "put a cup on it" without evaluating the person in front of you. Clinical techniques: "Popcorning," gliding, and the "Monkey Bar" technique for spinal decompression. Hygiene and maintenance: the specific protocols for sanitizing medical-grade silicone. ✨ Resources: Owlchemy Education: https://owlchemyeducation.com  Connect with Dr. Joi Edwards on Instagram, Facebook, and TikTok: @owlchemymassage 🌱 Sponsor Offers: • Jane – Practice management for health and wellness practitioners. Try it free for one month with code THINKING1MO at https://a-t.tv/jane • ABMP – Save $24 on new membership at https://abmp.com/thinking • Books of Discovery – Save 15% with code thinking at https://booksofdiscovery.com/ • Advanced-Trainings – Try one month free of the A-T Subscription at https://a-t.tv/subscriptions/ with code thinking • Academy of Clinical Massage – Grab Whitney’s free Assessment Cheat Sheet at https://academyofclinicalmassage.com/cheatsheet ✨ Watch the video / connect with us: • YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@AdvancedTrainings/podcasts • Til Luchau – https://advanced-trainings.com | https://facebook.com/advancedtrainings | https://instagram.com/til.luchau • Whitney Lowe – https://academyofclinicalmassage.com | https://facebook.com/WhitneyLowe | https://twitter.com/whitneylowe 📧 Email us: [email protected] The Thinking Practitioner Podcast is intended for professional practitioners of manual and movement therapies — bodywork, massage therapy, structural integration, physical therapy, osteopathy, and similar professions. It is not medical or treatment advice.

🎙 Does Massage Research Actually Work? (with Bodhi Haraldsson) Bodhi Haraldsson is a registered massage therapist, researcher, and self-described “pracademic” who has spent over 25 years bridging the gap between clinical practice and scientific inquiry. He joins Whitney on The Thinking Practitioner to talk about one of the most important — and most misunderstood — questions in our profession: what does the research actually tell us about massage therapy? Bodhi’s journey into research began at McMaster University — the birthplace of evidence-based practice — where he joined the Cochrane Cervical Overview Group and helped author a landmark systematic review on massage for mechanical neck disorders. That review, first published in 2006 and later in Spine, analyzed thousands of studies down to just 14 qualifying trials — and found that most of the evidence was limited or unclear. Nearly 20 years later, a 2024 update reached essentially the same conclusions. But this isn’t a discouraging story. It’s a call to understand what research can and can’t tell us — and why that matters for every practitioner. Bodhi and Whitney explore why absence of evidence is not evidence of absence, why no single study can capture the complexity of clinical practice, and how evidence-based practice isn’t about recipes or checklists — it’s about better understanding what we do and why. ✨ Topics discussed include: Whitney and Bodhi walk through the Cochrane review process, the state of massage research, and what individual practitioners can take away from the evidence conversation. • What a “pracademic” is — and why massage needs more of them • How the Cochrane Cervical Overview Group conducted its systematic review of massage for neck pain • Starting with thousands of studies and ending with 14 qualifying trials — and why • Levels of evidence: from strong to limited to unclear • Why the 2024 update reached essentially the same conclusions as the 2006 original • The research gap: why massage lags behind physiotherapy and chiropractic in building a cohesive evidence base • The “lineage model” of massage education vs. academic training • Mechanical effects, neurological effects, contextual effects — and why we need all the pieces of the puzzle • Publication bias: why negative findings rarely get published and how trial registries help • Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence — what that really means for practice • How research changed Bodhi’s own clinical work: always asking “how and why?” ✨ Resources: • Cochrane Review — Massage for Mechanical Neck Disorders (2006): https://www.cochranelibrary.com/cdsr/doi/10.1002/14651858.CD004871/full • Ezzo, Haraldsson et al. — “Massage for Mechanical Neck Disorders: A Systematic Review,” Spine, 2007: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/17268268/ • Cochrane Review update — Massage for Neck Pain (2024): https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/38415786/ • Connect with Bodhi Haraldsson on LinkedIn and Facebook 🌱 Sponsor Offers: • Jane – Practice management for health and wellness practitioners. Try it free for one month with code THINKING1MO at https://a-t.tv/jane • ABMP – Save $24 on new membership at https://abmp.com/thinking • Books of Discovery – Save 15% with code thinking at https://booksofdiscovery.com/ • Advanced-Trainings – Try one month free of the A-T Subscription at https://a-t.tv/subscriptions/ with code thinking • Academy of Clinical Massage – Grab Whitney’s free Assessment Cheat Sheet at https://academyofclinicalmassage.com/cheatsheet ✨ Watch the video / connect with us: • YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@AdvancedTrainings/podcasts • Til Luchau – https://advanced-trainings.com | https://facebook.com/advancedtrainings | https://instagram.com/til.luchau • Whitney Lowe – https://academyofclinicalmassage.com | https://facebook.com/WhitneyLowe | https://twitter.com/whitneylowe 📧 Email us: [email protected] The Thinking Practitioner Podcast is intended for professional practitioners of manual and movement therapies — bodywork, massage therapy, structural integration, physical therapy, osteopathy, and similar professions. It is not medical or treatment advice.

🎙 The Interstate Massage Compact (with Deborah Persinger) Deborah Persinger is the Executive Director of the Federation of State Massage Therapy Boards (FSMTB), and she joins Whitney on The Thinking Practitioner to break down one of the most significant regulatory developments in our profession’s history: the Interstate Massage Compact. If you’ve ever moved to a new state and had to navigate a whole new set of licensing requirements — or if you live near a state border and can’t legally work on the other side — this episode is for you. The compact would create a multi-state license allowing eligible massage therapists to practice across state lines without meeting separate requirements in each state. It’s already been adopted by five states, with two more needed to stand up the commission and make the license a reality. But there’s more at stake than portability. Deborah explains how the compact was carefully designed to address human trafficking in the massage profession — a daily reality for regulatory boards — and why the details of how the compact is written matter enormously for keeping bad actors out while making life easier for legitimate practitioners. ✨ Topics discussed include: Whitney and Deborah walk through the compact’s origins, the 625-hour education standard, the role of the Department of Defense, and the current obstacles to getting it across the finish line. • What the Interstate Massage Compact is — and how multi-state licensing works • The 625-hour education standard: where it came from and why it was chosen • Home state vs. remote state — how the compact defines where you practice • Why the Department of Defense supports the compact (military family portability) • The five states that have adopted so far: Nevada, Ohio, Arkansas, Virginia, and Montana • Human trafficking provisions unique to the massage compact • The national massage therapy licensing database and its role in tracking bad actors • Over 20,000 illicit massage businesses in the U.S. — and why that matters for compact design • Rule vs. statute: the key disagreement holding things up • Why 97–98% of surveyed practitioners support the original compact • What individual practitioners can do to stay informed and have their voice heard ✨ Resources: • Interstate Massage Compact: https://www.massagecompact.org • Federation of State Massage Therapy Boards (FSMTB): https://www.fsmtb.org • Massage Compact Practitioner Survey: https://www.massagecompact.org 🌱 Sponsor Offers: • Jane – Practice management for health and wellness practitioners. Try it free for one month with code THINKING1MO at https://a-t.tv/jane • ABMP – Save $24 on new membership at https://abmp.com/thinking • Books of Discovery – Save 15% with code thinking at https://booksofdiscovery.com/ • Advanced-Trainings – Try one month free of the A-T Subscription at https://a-t.tv/subscriptions/ with code thinking • Academy of Clinical Massage – Grab Whitney’s free Assessment Cheat Sheet at https://academyofclinicalmassage.com/cheatsheet ✨ Watch the video / connect with us: • YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@AdvancedTrainings/podcasts • Til Luchau – https://advanced-trainings.com | https://facebook.com/advancedtrainings | https://instagram.com/til.luchau • Whitney Lowe – https://academyofclinicalmassage.com | https://facebook.com/WhitneyLowe | https://twitter.com/whitneylowe 📧 Email us: [email protected] The Thinking Practitioner Podcast is intended for professional practitioners of manual and movement therapies — bodywork, massage therapy, structural integration, physical therapy, osteopathy, and similar professions. It is not medical or treatment advice.