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Welcome back to another Reacting To r/SaaS Episode of In Demand, this time with Asia and Kim! In this episode, they react to posts about niche SaaS and what can’t be automated when you’re starting a business.  Along the way, they explore niching vs. focusing, product validation, customer research, AI-generated marketing, and why customer research should not be fully automated. Got a question you’d like Asia to unpack on the podcast? Record a voicemail here. Links:  DemandMaven Subscribe to The Work by DemandMaven on Substack Chapters (00:00:05) - Introduction and Episode Format(00:01:17) - Niche SaaS Post: Niching vs Focusing(00:05:11) - ConvertKit Case Study on Focused Beachheads(00:08:40) - Weighing Satisfaction, Viability, and Empathy in Niching(00:11:52) - Reddit Comments on Niche SaaS Strategy(00:15:45) - Problem-Space vs Solution-Space Product Building(00:18:51) - What Feels Manual in SaaS Launches (New Post)(00:19:29) - AI Limits in Jobs-to-be-Done and Visual Assets(00:23:11) - Why Talking to Users Can't Be Automated(00:26:20) - When Synthetic Research or Automation Is Acceptable(00:30:27) - Automating Feedback Collection vs Feedback Itself(00:31:59) - Marketing Asset Workflows and Product Marketing Ops(00:38:50) - Business Process Tools and Operationalizing Launches(00:44:16) - Closing Thoughts and Other Subreddits

Founders spend a lot of time debating ideas, features, and technology. But the difference between a successful business and a failed one usually comes down to something much simpler: understanding what people are actually willing to pay for. In this “Asia reacts to r/SaaS” episode of In Demand, Asia reacts to more founder stories from the SaaS Sub Reddit. From an AI startup that flopped while a simple website service took off, to the challenge of finding your first users, to the power of repositioning a product around a specific customer segment, Asia shares practical insights on product-market fit, distribution, positioning, and growth. Along the way, she explores why AI does not magically create demand, why customer acquisition feels harder than building software, and how founders can think about niching, focusing, and finding the right market for their product. Got a question you’d like Asia to unpack on the podcast? Record a voicemail here. Links:  DemandMaven Subscribe to The Work by DemandMaven on Substack r/SaaS Chapters (00:00:05) - Intro to Asia Reacts to r/SaaS(00:01:11) - AI SaaS Flop to Boring Business Success(00:04:44) - Outcome Bias: Was It Really the AI That Flopped?(00:06:38) - Service Market Fit vs SaaS(00:08:57) - Why Getting Users Is Harder Than Building(00:13:01) - Marketing as a Muscle for Technical Founders(00:15:21) - Repositioning a CRM: Niche Case Study(00:17:04) - Niching vs Focusing Explained(00:21:07) - Roaster Tools and ConvertKit as Examples(00:25:44) - Choosing Your Path: Bootstrap vs VC Goals(00:28:45) - Wrap Up and Closing Thoughts

Retention is one of the most important growth levers in SaaS, but most founders treat churn as a single number instead of a source of insight. The companies that grow the fastest aren't just acquiring more customers. They're getting better at understanding why the right customers stay, why they leave, and where value breaks down along the journey. In this solo episode of In Demand, Asia shares her busy founders guide to retention and churn. She explains the difference between short-term and long-term retention metrics, introduces the concept of qualified versus unqualified churn, and walks through how founders can use churn analysis to uncover product, positioning, pricing, and activation opportunities. Got a question you’d like Asia to unpack on the podcast? Record a voicemail here. Links:  DemandMaven Subscribe to The Work by DemandMaven on Substack ProfitWell Chapters (00:00:05) - Intro to Retention and Churn(00:00:51) - The 5% Monthly Churn Benchmark(00:03:49) - Net Revenue Retention Explained(00:05:10) - Measuring NRR with Profitwell(00:06:11) - NRR Benchmarks and Growth Acceleration(00:08:40) - Qualified vs Unqualified Churn(00:11:19) - Pre-Qualifying Signups and ICP Clarity(00:15:23) - Why Top-of-Funnel Shapes Churn Metrics(00:17:33) - Why Qualified Customers Actually Churn(00:19:07) - Uncontrollable vs Controllable Churn Reasons(00:25:15) - Product-to-Value Breakdown as Growth Lever(00:27:51) - Emergency Response: Stopping Projects to Fix Churn(00:29:26) - Requiring Cancellation Reasons and Digging Deeper(00:32:39) - Applying the Process Across Different Churn Scenarios(00:35:22) - Wrap Up and Final Thoughts

Founders often think their biggest problem is product development. More often, the real challenge is figuring out what to build, how to price it, and how to get it in front of the right customers. In this special solo episode of In Demand, Asia reacts to two founder stories shared on Reddit and breaks down the growth lessons hiding beneath the surface. From a founder who finally stopped building and started marketing, to another who grew from $150 MRR to $8.6K MRR by simplifying their product and changing their pricing model, Asia shares what she agrees with, what she would do differently, and the growth principles that you can take from these founders’ stories.  She dives into customer acquisition, marketing sprints, pricing models, SEO, product-led growth, customer feedback, retention, and why founders often overcomplicate the path to early traction. Got a question you’d like Asia to unpack on the podcast? Record a voicemail here. Links:  DemandMaven Subscribe to The Work by DemandMaven on Substack Chapters (00:00:05) - In Demand: Troubleshooting Growth for SaaS Companies(00:00:26) - Why I stopped building and started Reacting to Tech Posts(00:04:59) - Do You Need Marketing on Your SaaS?(00:11:47) - The AI Rendering Mistake That Cost Me 2 Years(00:15:24) - Lessons Learned From The Chat Startup Pivot(00:18:02) - What's Net Revenue Retention?(00:19:31) - What I Love About This Founder's Channels(00:24:17) - What Didn't Work For My Website?(00:26:09) - How to Prioritize Your Product Led Growth With a Qualified(00:28:51) - Does Adding a Credit Card Reduce Signups?(00:29:48) - How to Build a Successful Business on AI(00:31:40) - Cover Story

Product validation is one of the most misunderstood topics in SaaS. Founders are told to run ads, build waitlists, and test landing pages, but those tactics often validate marketing execution more than they validate whether a real customer problem exists. In this episode of In Demand, Asia and Kim break down what product idea validation should look like before you build. They explore why customer conversations still matter, and how founders can gather meaningful evidence before investing significant time and money into a product. From customer interviews and prototypes to manual service delivery and building in public, this episode is a practical guide to reducing risk, finding real opportunities, and avoiding the most common validation mistakes. Got a question you’d like Asia to unpack on the podcast? Record a voicemail here. Links:  DemandMaven Subscribe to The Work by DemandMaven on Substack In Demand Episode 23:The 8 Customer Yeses The Mom Test by Rob Fitzpatrick  RoasterTools Shape Up by Basecamp Chapters (00:00:05) - Intro & AI Search Musings(00:03:31) - Speaking Circuit Tangent(00:06:07) - Introducing Today's Topic: Product Validation(00:07:16) - Setting the Scene: Client Stages & Use Cases(00:10:14) - Build First vs Define Audience First(00:12:04) - The Outdated Ads-to-Validate Playbook(00:13:38) - Why Ads Don't Prove Product Viability(00:15:41) - The Wait List Trap(00:18:24) - Algorithm Limits & Churn Case Study(00:21:53) - Better Approach: Networking & Proxies(00:27:23) - Building in Public vs Ads Tradeoffs(00:29:30) - Pervasive Myths About Go-to-Market(00:31:40) - The Mom Test & Real Customer Conversations(00:36:08) - Learning from Industry Experts & Personal Experience(00:38:35) - Validating by Delivering Manually: Motivo Story(00:44:37) - Soft Launch Approach: Rand Fishkin's Alert Mouse(00:50:53) - Prototyping and Design Sprints for Feedback(00:58:38) - Wrap Up: Confidence Without Perfect Data

In this episode of In Demand, Asia and Kim continue their two-part series on SaaS marketing channels with a rapid-fire breakdown of the most common growth channels available to SaaS companies. They cover everything from word of mouth, SEO, and social ads to conferences, partnerships, PLG, engineering as marketing, ABM, and community building. Throughout the episode, Asia explains which channels tend to work best, where founders waste money, and why context always matters more than trends or generic advice. This episode is a practical guide to evaluating marketing channels, understanding the tradeoffs behind each one, and avoiding the trap of searching for a universal “best” growth strategy. Got a question you’d like Asia to unpack on the podcast? Record a voicemail here. Links:  DemandMaven Subscribe to The Work by DemandMaven on Substack Link to Part One The SaaS Playbook by Rob Walling Chapters (00:00:05) - In Demand: How to Troubleshoot Growth for Saa(00:00:27) - Choosing the Best Marketing Channels for SaaS(00:02:02) - Asia' Lightning Round(00:02:27) - Is Word of Mouth the best channel for sales?(00:04:03) - Organic Search: The Most Sustainable Channel for SaaS(00:07:04) - Is Organic Social Social Good for Business?(00:08:45) - What are Social and Display Ad Networks?(00:10:29) - What is Content Marketing?(00:11:55) - How to Integrate Email Marketing with Your Inbound Marketing(00:13:52) - Affiliate Marketing: Types of Channels, and How to Use(00:16:05) - Offline Ad Strategy: Social Media vs Traditional Media(00:19:51) - Do I Need to Invest in a Marketplace?(00:21:37) - Top 5 Channels for Product Led Growth(00:22:49) - "Engineering as Marketing"(00:26:38) - Speech Engagements(00:32:40) - Cold Outreach: The Low-Cost Channel(00:38:46) - Does Viral Marketing Impact SaaS Sales?(00:40:36) - Tim Ferriss on Community Building(00:42:36) - Partnerships: What are they and how do they work?(00:48:56) - What is Unconventional PR and Regular PR for SaaS(00:51:44) - How to Get Strategic with Your Channels

In this episode of In Demand, Asia and Kim dive into one of the most misunderstood topics in SaaS growth: how to choose the right marketing channels for your company. This is part one of a two-part series on SaaS marketing channels. In this episode, they focus on the strategy behind channel selection, including customer behavior, levels of awareness, ARPU, and how different markets discover products in completely different ways. They unpack why there is no universal “best” marketing strategy, how founders fall into silver bullet thinking, and why the companies that succeed either get very lucky or build strong strategic processes for understanding their market. This episode is a deep dive on how to think strategically about SaaS marketing instead of blindly copying tactics that worked for someone else. Got a question you’d like Asia to unpack on the podcast? Record a voicemail here. Links: DemandMaven Subscribe to The Work by DemandMaven on Substack Competing Against Luck by Clayton Christensen Chapters (00:04:30) - Why silver bullet thinking doesn't work when it comes to marketing.(00:07:30) - The difference between luck and strategic process in SaaS growth.(00:10:38) - How to think about picking the best marketing channels for your business.(00:13:00) - How to identify the channels your audience actually uses.(00:17:30) - Coffee roasting software as an example of how customers actually discover products.(00:24:00) - Getting creative about the channels that you invest in.(00:25:15) - Manufacturing software example: uncovering hidden channel opportunities through observation.(00:32:30) - Why average revenue per user and budget matter for choosing the right marketing channels.(00:42:15) - Eugene Schwartz’s five levels of awareness and how this informs the campaigns you choose for your channels.(00:54:00) - Why simply “running ads” usually fails for early stage SaaS companies.(01:03:30) - Recapping the questions founders should use to choose marketing channels strategically.

In this episode of In Demand, Asia and Kim dive into product management. They cover problem space versus solution space and why so many founders and product teams build features based on assumptions, customer requests, or competitive pressure without doing the discovery work necessary to understand what users are actually trying to accomplish. This episode is a masterclass on how to avoid building features nobody uses and how to create products that customers genuinely adopt, value, and pay for. Got a question you’d like Asia to unpack on the podcast? Record a voicemail here. Links:  DemandMaven Subscribe to The Work by DemandMaven on Substack The Lean Product Playbook by Dan Olsen Playing to Win: How Strategy Really Works  Continuous Discovery Habits by Theresa Torres Chapters (00:01:00) - Product discovery and idea validation.(00:03:15) - Why understanding the problem deeply creates better product decisions.(00:06:05) - What product discovery actually means in practice.(00:14:40) - Observational research and watching users interact with products.(00:16:15) - User stories versus hypothetical behavior.(00:19:50) - An example of the user stories you might look for on a SaaS reporting function.(00:23:45) - How support tickets can help lead you to the areas you should start working on.(00:29:00) - Castos example: uncovering integration problems through user stories.(00:37:45) - Theresa Torres and the Continuous Discovery approach.(00:44:30) - How discovery creates clearer product strategy and positioning.

Growth does not always slow down because something obvious breaks. Sometimes it stalls because small issues quietly build up across different functions.  In this episode of In Demand, Asia and Kim break down what a growth stall actually is, why it happens, and how to diagnose it. They walk through real examples from DemandMaven clients, including how poor team structure, technical debt, lack of analytics, and founder bottlenecks can silently cap growth.  Overcoming a stall often requires stopping, refocusing the business, and making hard organizational changes. If your company feels stuck despite continued effort, this episode will help you understand where to look and what to change. Got a question you’d like Asia to unpack on the podcast? Record a voicemail here. Links:  DemandMaven Subscribe to The Work by DemandMaven on Substack Joel Gascoigne - Navigating a Multi-Year Decline to New All-Time-Highs In Demand Episode 50: Why Operations Is Your Overlooked Growth Lever Chapters (00:02:30) - What is a growth stall?(00:04:50) - The three most common stall points: 1M, 3 to 5M, and 10M ARR.(00:10:15) - Getting to $10M requires pulling all the growth levers: activation, retention, monetization, and operations.(00:14:30) - Why growth stalls are almost always caused by multiple issues at once and often the solutions might be outside of marketing.(00:16:30) - Why a founder leading product can contribute to a growth stall in the 3 to 5M ARR range.(00:20:40) - How technical debt creates analytics debt, blocks better decision making, and slows growth.(00:27:00) - Why operations and team structure are often hidden contributors to growth stalls.(00:32:15) - Why a 5M ARR company is stuck due to founder bottlenecks.(00:39:00) - Why founders struggle to see the real problem and how bias affects decisions.(00:42:00) - The Buffer turnaround story and the power of pausing everything to refocus.(00:47:00) - Why small teams still need structure, process, operational discipline, and change management.

Product consciousness shapes how your customers experience, interpret, and talk about your product. And if you are not accounting for it, you may be making product decisions based on incomplete or misleading feedback. In this episode of In Demand, Asia and Kim break down the four levels of product consciousness and why not all customer feedback should be treated equally. Asia explains how different types of users perceive friction, why some blame themselves instead of the product, and how relying on the wrong feedback can create a false sense of confidence. They walk through how to identify each type of customer, how to balance feedback across groups, and why observation often matters more than what customers say. The conversation also covers how to structure better UX research, when to incentivize interviews, and how to build a reliable feedback loop that actually improves product decisions. If you feel like something is off with your product but you’re only hearing “it’s great” from customers, this episode will help you understand why and what to do about it. Got a question you’d like Asia to unpack on the podcast? Record a voicemail here. Links: DemandMaven Subscribe to The Work by DemandMaven on Substack The Four Levels of Product Consciousness Chapters (00:00:30) - Why “everything is easy” can be a dangerous and misleading signal.(00:01:35) - The first level: unaware users who blame themselves instead of the product, and why UX interviews are critical because of this.(00:06:00) - The second level: friction aware. Aware users who feel issues but cannot put it into words and tell you exactly what the problem is.(00:08:10) - The third level: friction vocal users who can clearly diagnose problems.(00:11:15) - The fourth level: most aware users who have strong feelings about what needs to change for the product to work best for them.(00:14:00) - Why over-listening to one group creates biased product decisions and why it's helpful to talk to people in each category.(00:17:30) - How to structure research to get a balanced mix of user perspectives.(00:21:30) - When to validate feedback at scale instead of taking opinions literally.(00:24:50) - Incentives, feedback loops, and building a panel of high-value users.(00:29:00) - Why observation beats opinion when evaluating product experience.

Most SaaS companies do not stall because they run out of acquisition channels. They stall because their organization cannot scale what is already working. In this episode of In Demand, Asia and Kim break down why so many companies get stuck in the 3 to 5 million ARR range. Asia shares patterns she is seeing across companies, from flat team structures and lack of ownership to analytics debt and poor product decision-making. They unpack why growth can plateau even with experienced teams, how CEOs accidentally become bottlenecks, and why the transition from founder to CEO is critical at this stage.  If your company is stuck despite strong effort and investment, this episode will help you diagnose whether the real problem is not your growth tactics, but how your business is structured to support them. Got a question you’d like Asia to unpack on the podcast? Record a voicemail here. Links:  DemandMaven Chapters (00:00:30) - The 3 to 5 million ARR plateau and why companies tend to get stuck at this stage.(00:02:30) - Flat org structures and why too many direct reports create bottlenecks.(00:04:58) - Analytics debt and how lack of data infrastructure limits growth teams.(00:12:00) - Why lack of internal leadership prevents teams from scaling effectively.(00:16:10) - The founder to CEO transition and shifting from execution to direction.(00:19:30) - Why being a CEO isn't about telling people what to do.(00:22:00) - Why the role of controller is a key role for companies in the 3 to 5 million ARR range.(00:25:25) - Role confusion and how unclear ownership creates friction across teams.(00:36:00) - Product missteps that can keep businesses stuck under 5 million ARR like building the wrong features without validation or market context.

Growth leaders often focus on tactics, channels, and experiments. But at a certain point, the real unlock is not another marketing playbook. It is leadership. In this episode of In Demand, Asia reflects on her first year working as a fractional CMO and the shift she is experiencing in her role. After spending months identifying growth levers and investing in long term bets like SEO and brand, she realized the next phase is more about leadership and building a center of excellence.  Asia and Kim explore the role of storytelling, brand, and the difference between deciding positioning versus operationalizing it.  If you are a founder, marketing leader, or executive figuring out how to move from doing the work to developing the people doing the work, this episode will give you a thoughtful look at what that transition actually feels like. Got a question you’d like Asia to unpack on the podcast? Record a voicemail here. Links:  DemandMaven Radical Candor by Kim Scott A child psychologist’s guide to working with difficult adults | Dr. Becky Kennedy on Lenny’s Podcast Chapters (00:01:00) - Asia reflects on her first year as a fractional CMO and learning the growth levers of the business.(00:09:00) - What it means to build a marketing “center of excellence.”(00:14:00) - Teaching teams how to recognize quality in messaging and content.(00:15:40) - The difference between defining positioning and then operationalizing it across the company.(00:21:00) - Why marketing, sales, and product all need to reinforce the same story.(00:28:00) - Why the brand is becoming more of a focus for Asia in the CMO role.(00:32:10) - Self-awareness, leadership growth, and knowing when to push or step back.(00:39:30) - Lessons from working in toxic environments and separating identity from work.

In this episode of In Demand, Asia and Kim unpack how they think about and using AI today, and what founders and operators should think about when using AI in their day-to-day work. They explore when AI meaningfully speeds up analysis and deliverables, why human interpretation still matters for strategy, and the common mistake of outsourcing thinking to an LLM too early. If you are experimenting with AI in product, marketing, or operations and trying to figure out where it actually adds value, this episode offers a grounded framework for thinking about it. Got a question you’d like Asia to unpack on the podcast? Record a voicemail here. Links:  DemandMaven Ahrefs video: “I Outsourced Our Digital Marketing to AI”  Lenny Bot Delphi AI Granola Synthetic Users Chapters (00:02:30) - What Kim has been finding exciting with AI today and why understanding its strengths matters.(00:07:15) - Practical use cases: deliverable creation and analyzing large datasets.(00:12:00) - Why AI-assisted workflows outperform fully outsourced thinking and how LLMs can get things wrong.(00:18:30) - Why LLMs struggle with nuance, emotion, and deeper strategic interpretation of research interviews.(00:26:15) - How companies can build an internal brain by aggregating sales calls, interviews, and support data.(00:32:30) - Why AI raises the floor for many skills but still rewards real expertise.(00:40:30) - Wildest AI tools and experiments: LennyBot, synthetic users, and Granola.

If you are past $1 million ARR and still treating marketing as your primary growth lever, you may be burning resources without realizing it. In this episode of In Demand, Asia and Kim break down why marketing is not always your best growth lever, especially for PLG SaaS companies that have already crossed the early survival stage. Asia introduces the shift from “boiler room founder” to “captain’s deck CEO,” explains the seven growth levers inside a SaaS business, and walks through why over-investing in marketing often leads to diminishing returns. If you have ever felt like pouring more money into marketing should be working, but isn’t moving the needle the way you expect, this episode will help you diagnose what to look at instead. Got a question you’d like Asia to unpack on the podcast? Record a voicemail here. Links:  DemandMaven In Demand 36: Why is hiring for marketing so hard  Dr. Sherry Walling Chapters (00:00:30) - Why marketing is critical under $1 million ARR but often loses leverage after that threshold.(00:13:00) - The way the role of CEO changes as you go past $1 million ARR, and how strategy and a shift away from marketing might be key.(00:18:40) - Once you go past $1M, you can start looking beyond acquisition at the other growth levers: acquisition, activation, retention, monetization, expansion, operations, and people.(00:24:45) - How to identify which lever is actually on fire and deserves attention.(00:27:00) - Financial and personal indicators that it is time to step out of the boiler room, and the self-awareness challenges that come up in this stage.(00:39:00) - Why over-investing in marketing does not work once channels stabilize.(00:40:15) - The three structural limits of marketing: slow market movement, TAM/SAM/SOM constraints, and diminishing returns.(00:45:00) - Product is still the center of the universe in PLG SaaS, and every lever connects back to it.

In this episode of In Demand, Asia and Kim break down what value decline is, how it silently erodes net revenue retention, and why many SaaS companies are unknowingly creating long-term churn.  They explore the forces that drive declining value, including market shifts, competitive moves, and self-imposed product constraints. If your NRR is stuck below 80 percent, or if growth feels harder than it should, this episode will help you diagnose whether value decline is the hidden culprit. Got a question you’d like Asia to unpack on the podcast? Record a voicemail here. Links:  DemandMaven Continuous Discovery Habits by Teresa Torres In Demand episode pricing Chapters (00:00:30) - What value decline is and how it shows up in NRR and long-term retention.(00:04:00) - Market forces change the value your product or service creates.(00:06:30) - Signs that you're in value decline vs. value status quo.(00:09:20) - Mapping jobs to be done to uncover missed opportunities for value expansion.(00:16:10) - The three root causes of preventable value decline inside SaaS companies.(00:26:30) - Why good processes are key for avoiding value decline.(00:32:00) - Why customers will likely only tell you about quality of life improvements and bugs, but not real value generators.(00:38:00) - Sprint discovery versus continuous discovery and how to structure validation.