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This week we’re in the ThunDERdome with Crucible Capital’s Meltem Demirors and Honour Masters. Have we become too Malthusian? Is AI an extension of Steve Jobs’ “bicycle for the mind” metaphor, or is it becoming more of a wholesale replacement for the bicyclist? Are your alt milk lattes and petroleum-derived garments more environmentally destructive than a data center? Will Meltem achieve her dream of deploying fleets of self-replicating nanosatellites into the universe to spread versions of herself, infecting alien cultures with her self-described “weird-ass personality?” Should David Energy create a brutalist, fluted concrete battery? Is Duncan “smoking crack?” These questions – and many more – discussed and/or generally riffed upon in this week’s DER Task Force. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.dertaskforce.com/subscribe

Buckle up, this is a long one. But when we’re talking about a revolution of this magnitude, how could it not be? We couldn’t help ourselves once we sat down with Daan Walter, principal of Ember, to unpack how solar and batteries are fueling the electrotech revolution, why it’s happening faster than anyone expected, and what this looks like far beyond the U.S. This disruption is all about cheaper, better technology winning the day across the entire stack, from generation and storage to how we consume energy. It’s particularly interesting in emerging markets, where energy is evolving like smartphones did—leapfrogging traditional infrastructure. As global oil supply disruptions have reclaimed the front page because of the war in Iran, this episode is a refreshing deep dive into the inevitable future where solar is the dominant supply of energy. And if you need some visuals to dig into, check out the Ember team’s post for us on the electrotech revolution in 10 charts and not too many numbers. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.dertaskforce.com/subscribe

We’re back! This time with a solo pod. We continue our tradition of talking about New Year’s resolutions, unpacking DERVOS ‘25, and looking ahead to DERVOS ‘26 and beyond. We feel we’re at the start of a new epoch—rather, DERcade—so we try to tee up the key themes and what we’re interested in exploring for the next 10 years. We get into what’s up at Scale and David Energy, permissionless DERs, scalability, affordability and electricity being the super topic on the national stage in ‘26 for the first time, how it’s going to be real weird and messy, electrostates being The Thing, institutional decay in the US and on the grid, nimbyism and how some states are going to get left behind, building mainstream narratives, AI and data centers, and so much more! This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.dertaskforce.com/subscribe

Our final discussion of DERVOS 2025 was a panel on the ramifications of electricity becoming the primary lever of economic and geopolitical might. If you’re listening to this as a podcast, keep in mind that the full video is available on our website www.dertaskforce.com and Youtube channel. This year James solidified the newfound tradition of saving the arguably wonkiest discussion for the end of the day. It did not disappoint. The topic at hand is the emergence of electrostates, where electricity is the dominant energy input to a nation’s power and security. There is no question that China will likely be the first electrostate. In the first half of 2025 alone, for instance, it built about 250 GW of solar, more than twice as much solar capacity as the rest of the world combined (in May alone, it built an eye-popping 93 GW). It’s not just about renewables build out. China owns and has mastered the electrotech stack, argues Impluse’s Sam D’amico, which includes lithium-ion batteries, magnets and electric motors, power electronics and embedded computing. But that doesn’t mean it’s not happening in the U.S. Here it is unsurprisingly messier, slower, and certainly hampered by our fossil fuel riches. Grab some popcorn for hot takes on how this plays out here and around the globe. Speakers: * Drew Baglino, Founder and CEO, Heron Power * Tristan Doherty, Chief Product Officer, LG Energy Solution Vertech * Sam D’Amico, Founder and CEO, Impulse * Daan Walter, Principal, Ember Futures * James McGinniss - Founder and CEO, David Energy This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.dertaskforce.com/subscribe

Our third discussion of DERVOS 2025 was a panel on how the hell we’re going to deploy and orchestrate a massive new fleet of distributed energy systems to fill a rapidly growing electricity demand gap. If you’re listening to this as a podcast, keep in mind that the full video is available on our website www.dertaskforce.com and Youtube channel. DERs are kind of having a moment. Whether you call their orchestration virtual power plants, distributed power plants, or think both those descriptions suck, the reality is that there’s a convergence of technology and need for energy assets that can be deployed quickly. No longer a cute side show (duh), DERs are being deployed at scale. This discussion brings together folks with the battle scars of early days of DER deployment who are leading the charge now that affordability and capacity constraints are the calling card of the day. Come for the deep dive on program design, stay for the shade thrown at California. Speakers: * Ryan Long, Executive Vice President, Xcel Energy * Seth Frader-Thompson, Co-Founder and CEO, EnergyHub * Dana Guernsey, co-founder and CEO, Voltus * Chris Rauscher, VP of Grid Services & Electrification, Sunrun * Moderator - Colleen Metelitsa, Senior Director, Strategy, Scale Microgrids This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.dertaskforce.com/subscribe

Our second discussion of DERVOS 2025 was a panel on a revolutionary new class of distributed energy systems that require little to no permission to install. If you’re listening to this as a podcast, keep in mind that the full video is available on our website www.dertaskforce.com and Youtube channel. We’ve been talking about permissionless DERs on the pod for a long time, so it seemed only right to bring together some of the folks on the forefront of this class of technology to talk about who wants it, how to get it to them, and what it means for the grid. While this may be new fangled technology here, Germans have been plugging in solar panels into wall sockets for the past few years. So many Germans, in fact, that there’s more than 4 million households who have one of these units. Oddly, the permissionless revolution started in earnest in the U.S. in Utah, which was the first state to codify the rules for these DERs. But that’s just the beginning. Check out the discussion on which states are next, what utilities and standards organizations think about it, and why you should think of plug-in solar and storage as just another appliance in your home, and how these systems are relevant to commercial and indstrial energy users as well. Speakers: * Cole Ashman, Founder & CEO, Pila Energy * Bala Ramamurthy, Co-Founder and CEO, Critical Loop * Stephan Scherer, co-founder, Craftstrom Solar * Kevin Chou, Co-founder & Executive Director, Brightsaver * Moderator, Duncan Campbell, VP, Data Center Solutions, Scale Microgrids This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.dertaskforce.com/subscribe

We kicked off the first discussion of DEROVS 2025 with a panel titled “Big DERs Energy”. If you’re listening to this as a podcast, keep in mind that the full video is available on our website www.dertaskforce.com and Youtube channel. The AI-power nexus isn’t just the domain of energy nerds these days, but we brought some together anyway to go deep about what role DERs play as data centers proliferate. Google’s Hallie Carrao noted speed to power is essential, and that’s where behind-the-meter and distributed solutions come in. Can the regulatory system adapt fast enough for smarter and faster planning? Given the load volatility of data centers, is there any way that batteries don’t have a large role to play? To what extent will data center load itself act as a DER? What role might direct current play? Watch the whole panel to get into the weeds on the energy topic even normies are talking about. Speakers: * Hallie Carrao, Technical Program Manager, Advanced Energy Labs, Google’s Advanced Energy Labs * Sean Jones, Sr Staff Business Development Manager, Megapack for Data Centers, Tesla * Tyler Norris, James B. Duke Fellow, Duke University (now at Google) * Vic Shao, Founder & CEO, DC Grid * Moderator - Duncan Campbell, VP, Data Center Solutions, Scale Microgrids This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.dertaskforce.com/subscribe

Note: This presentation has been distributed in video and audio-only versions. We reccomend watching the video version on our website or Youtube to see the visuals. We’ll be releasing all the DERVOS content soon, and what better teaser than Jesse’s incredible keynote. Jesse’s presentation makes the case that solar energy isn’t just growwing and abundant — in the long run, everything other than solar is simply a rounding error, and thus harnessing solar energy is the key unlock for advanced civilization. Jeese makes his case methodically and quantitatively, walking through the logic step by step, and addressing common counter-arguements. By the end of this presentation we promise you that, even if you don’t fully agree, you’ll walk away with a thorough understanding of solar energy and will be glad you spent the 13 minutes listening. Take the solar pill… we think you’ll like it. And stay tuned for the rest of the DERVOS content coming your way! About the speaker: Jesse Peltan is on a quest to help humanity unlock a Type 1 civilization. For those who aren’t familiar, Type 1 refers to the Kardashev scale, a way of benchmarking a civilization’s technological prowess based on the amount of energy it harnesses. Type 1 specifically refers to a point on this scale where a civilization controls all of the energy flows available on its home planet, whereas Type 2 and Type 3 start to get very science fiction. About DERVOS: If you want to learn more about what went down this October, we just posted a long recap of the event written by DERTF OG John Atkinson that you can read here. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.dertaskforce.com/subscribe

We’re back (minus Colleen who was on vacation), this time with Seth Frader-Thompson, the CEO and co-founder of EnergyHub. Many don’t realize that EnergyHub has built what may be the largest VPP platform in North America, nearly entirely with vertically integrated utilities. In addition to getting the inside scoop on how they pulled this off, we discuss EnergyHub’s intriguing VPP capabilities framework called the Huels Test, how VPPs can at times be better than a traditional power plant, why they focused on vertically integrated markets, and a whole lot more.We also spent a ton of time getting into the weeds of starting companies in our industry, finding PMF, pivoting, leadership styles, etc. Anyone building in this space should take notes. Btw, if you’re enjoying this episode you should definitely check out DERVOS 2025, our annual event that’s all about distributed energy and the energy industry broadly. Rumor has it Seth with be making a special appearance. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.dertaskforce.com/subscribe

Strap in for an episode where DERs go almost entirely unmentioned. Instead, we talked about nuclear, degrowth, climate change, communication over the internet, AI, and the future broadly with Isabelle Boemeke.Isabelle is the creator of Isodope and founder of Save Clean Energy, and new book Rad Future is about to be released on August 12th. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.dertaskforce.com/subscribe

We’re back! This time with Cole Ashman, Founder and CEO of Pila Energy. Permissionless DERs are one of most exciting new categories for us. With all the focus on permitting challenges, high soft costs, and long interconnection cues, what if we could just install DERs without all of that nonsense? In the ep, we talk about Cole’s journey from experiencing Hurricane Katrina awakening him to the need for resilience to working at Tesla, Span, and now Pila, Ben Franklin shocking people at parties, whether permissionless batteries have actual physical advantages over grid-tied batteries, how backfeeding into circuits works and what permitting reform could look like, balcony solar, storage manufacturing and supply chains, and so much more! Note: we had a bad connection between our recording device and computer, leading to a bunch of skips. Our fearless editor did his best to clean these up, but some may remain. This also means we can’t post the video because it messed with the timecodes. Sorry! We’ll do better next time. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.dertaskforce.com/subscribe

We’re still laughing that we actually did this pod. Why it seemed like a good idea to book two of our favorite (outspoken) people, Jigar Shah (most recently led the DOE LPO) and Tim Hade (co-founder Scale Microgrids), at the same time continues to confound us. With two legends on the couch that each have a wealth of knowledge, it was basically impossible to ask them everything we wanted. It was probably one of the most fun recordings we’ve ever done, so we’re psyched to share it with everyone. We usually list everything we talked about, but its was way too wide ranging to even begin summarizing. Just sit back and enjoy the ride. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.dertaskforce.com/subscribe

We’re back with our longest pod ever! And deservedly so. When you get Lisan al Gaib on the couch, you use all the time you have to pick his brain. Jesse Peltan is one of our favorite thinkers in the entire space, and his brilliant insights are endless. We probably need another 3 hours with him to get even more out! In it, we discuss: the fundamental resource availability of various energy sources, what 24/7 solar + storage at $3/w means, China’s explosive solar installation and manufacturing growth, the real rate limiters on nuclear and solar, opportunities for DC (versus AC) power use, and much much more. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.dertaskforce.com/subscribe

After a brief haitus to focus on 2025 planning, we’re back! Last week we sat down with Astrid Atkinson, CEO and co-founder of Camus Energy. We talked about all kinds of fun stuff: how this moment of grid expansion is like the expansion of cloud services, how it isn’t, how we can connect large loads faster via flexibility, where Astrid sees the grid going, how Camus started, what cool new stuff Camus is working on today, the nuance between distributed systems versus decentralized systems, and more. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.dertaskforce.com/subscribe

Last week we sat down with Dana Guernsey, co-founder and CEO of Voltus. There was A LOT to talk about in this one. As you’d expect we went deep on Dana’s backstory, the history of DR, new DER participation models, and where we think the future is headed. But also, Voltus just went through a settlement with FERC and this was Dana’s first podcast appearance since, so we did our best to understand what happened and what the Voltus position on it all is. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.dertaskforce.com/subscribe