Advertise on podcast: Phoenix and Flame Podcast

[iframe style="border:none" src="//html5-player.libsyn.com/embed/episode/id/43392894/height/100/width//thumbnail/no/render-playlist/no/theme/custom/tdest_id/5280105/custom-color/87A93A" height="100" width="100%" scrolling="no" allowfullscreen webkitallowfullscreen mozallowfullscreen oallowfullscreen msallowfullscreen] First aired 10/25/2026 Rev. Jocelyn Jones spent a decade leading a church youth nonprofit before a "holy discontent" pushed her to build a ministry beyond the four walls of the church. What began as a weekly blog about how God helps people heal from trauma grew into a national Christian trauma healing ministry, and eventually a coaching practice for women who want to turn their calling into a sustainable business. But behind the scenes, Jocelyn was carrying wounds of her own. She opens up about running from sexual trauma by pouring herself into ministry work, and about finding herself in an abusive marriage while helping others heal. Dana and Jocelyn talk about how to know when God is calling you somewhere new, how to recognize abuse that isn't physical, why boundaries threaten people who seek control, and why faith-driven women need to charge their worth. Watch this episode [https://youtu.be/B7PxWjyL1Kc] In this episode How to recognize "holy discontent" and three questions to help you discern your calling Why you can have Jesus and a therapist, and how faith and mental health work together The many forms of abuse (spiritual, emotional, financial and more) and why talking discreetly to someone trained is a safe first step How boundaries protect you, and Dana's yard analogy for knowing what is and isn't yours to carry Ministry and money: building a sustainable kingdom business without giving everything away for free Timestamps (00:40) Welcome and guest intro: meet Rev. Jocelyn Jones, speaker, two-time best-selling author and Christian business coach (02:06) From church youth center director to building ministry beyond the walls of the church (03:07) How a blog, Faith Fridays and Zoom trauma healing groups grew into a national ministry (06:52) Holy discontent: three questions to discern whether God is calling you somewhere new (10:58) Running from trauma through ministry, and why you can have Jesus and a therapist (13:13) Helping others heal while living in an abusive marriage (17:58) Recognizing abuse that isn't physical, and why to talk to someone trained (23:17) Saying no, backing down and the signs of emotional abuse (27:15) Dana's yard analogy for understanding boundaries (30:03) Why couples counseling can be risky in abusive relationships (31:48) Ministry and money: building a sustainable kingdom business (33:38) Why women need to charge their worth (36:45) Where to find Rev. Jocelyn Jones, her books and her free Ministry Launch Starter Kit About Rev. Jocelyn Jones Rev. Jocelyn Jones is a speaker, two-time best-selling author and Christian business coach who helps purpose-driven women turn their calling into sustainable, impactful businesses. She holds a master's in social work and a master's in theology, and is the founder of Faith on the Journey, a Christian trauma healing ministry offering Christ-centered healing groups, church retreats and resources. Drawing on her own story as a survivor of sexual trauma and domestic violence, she speaks boldly about healing, faith and the truth that abuse is not God. Connect with Rev. Jocelyn on Instagram or LinkedIn, or visit RevJocelyn.com. Her books, Sister, Start Your Ministry and Breaking the Power of the Mask, are available at [where to buy], and women ready to build a ministry beyond the walls of the church can grab her free Ministry Launch Starter Kit on her website. Favorite quotes "You can have Jesus and a therapist." —Rev. Jocelyn Jones "Abuse is not God." —Rev. Jocelyn Jones "Charge your worth, charge your value." —Rev. Jocelyn Jones Resources mentioned Sister, Start Your Ministry by Rev. Jocelyn Jones Breaking the Power of the Mask by Rev. Jocelyn Jones Free Ministry Launch Starter Kit: at RevJocelyn.com National Domestic Violence Hotline: call 1-800-799-7233 or text START to 88788 Rev. Jocelyn Jones on Instagram: @REVJOCELYN Rev. Jocelyn Jones on LinkedIn:  Subscribe & connect If this episode gave you something to sit with, follow Phoenix and Flame so you never miss an episode: all apps in one place, or jump straight to Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, or YouTube. And if it moved you, leave a review; it's the easiest way to help another listener find the show. Learn more about Phoenix and Flame, connect with Dana, and listen to more episodes here. Ready to find your own voice on stage? Dana's a big fan of Mic Drop Academy, a public speaking and group coaching program built for women. Watch the free webinar, join a workshop, or dive into the bootcamp to build the confidence to speak up and be heard. (These are affiliate links — Dana may earn a commission at no extra cost to you.) Read the full transcript Dana Skaggs (00:40) Welcome friends. Whether you're out on a walk, running errands, or relaxing at home, it's wonderful to connect with you. Joining us today is Reverend Jocelyn Jones. Reverend Jocelyn Jones is a speaker, two-time best-selling author, and Christian business coach who helps purpose-driven women turn their calling into sustainable, impactful businesses. Reverend Jocelyn, welcome to Phoenix and Flame. Rev. Jocelyn Jones (01:18) Thank you so much for having me. it's a joy. Dana Skaggs (01:21) This is gonna be fun. This is gonna be fun. So gosh, where do I even begin? You later on in your bio, you talk about helping women gain clarity, build structure. it just goes on and on. I've got all kinds of questions, but let me back away and give you some space to just tell us a little bit about yourself. And you can start wherever you would like. Some people really like stories from the very beginning that that really are impactful to them. Some people want to start later, but wherever you start, we'll end up weaving wherever we need to weave in the conversation. So what tell us a little bit about you and why why this interest? How did you get to this place? Rev. Jocelyn Jones (02:06) Thank you, Dana. Well, I I tell you, it's been quite the journey. And for me, I have been working in full-time ministry since the age of 23. And I was offered an opportunity to work at my church at the nonprofit youth center, and I became the executive director there. For about 10 years, I served diligently, and it was very rewarding work. But have you ever had that time in your life where even though what you were doing was rewarding? You knew you were in the right season at some point, but you knew that season was coming to an end. And I felt like God was calling me to more. I felt like God was calling me to build something beyond the walls of the church that was ministry, but it looked different. And I didn't quite know how that looked. But over time I I prayed, I fasted, went to seminary school trying to find myself and eventually I I made the decision to step out of The box, if you will, and start my ministry that we're gonna talk about today. And it started off as a blog, me writing stories about how God helped people to heal from trauma. And I published that weekly on Fridays, calling it Faith Fridays. And then over time I started writing books and podcasts. But what really was a life-changing moment for me, someone invited me to a Christian trauma healing group. It was a Bible study that included mental health. Health principles to help people heal from trauma. And it was in March of 2020, right at the beginning Dana Skaggs (03:42) Mm. Rev. Jocelyn Jones (03:43) of COVID. You know exactly what was happening then. And Dana Skaggs (03:45) Mm-hmm. Rev. Jocelyn Jones (03:47) I have a background in social work. I have my MSW and my master's in theology. And when I saw this curriculum, I was like, this is amazing. This combines both my loves. And I started doing that on Zoom because we were all locked down. But because I started doing these regularly on Zoom, that allowed for me to connect with people across the country who were looking for healing, who wanted connection. And that over time allowed for me to grow my ministry from that blog to national Christian trauma healing business over the last several years. And from that, that's when I connected with other women who wanted to learn how to start their faith-based ministry in business. And that's when that second arm began of me supporting other women. Dana Skaggs (04:30) I love this so much. And I already have so many questions for you. And and before I have several already written down, but before I get to those, as you were just describing this, I'm thinking of a lot of people that are that are in church. I I grew up in church myself and I'm a Christian. it's I don't know, it seems easier for people sometimes when they're following the status quo. When they're following the path that seems to be the vanilla path, which is not the path I've taken, by the way. but I'm not a vanilla gal, but it just seems like it's easier sometimes, it seems easier when people are following the path that everyone seems to be doing and that everyone seems to expect them to do too. And when God calls you to take the exit, to go somewhere else, I think of for example, like Jonah. he didn't want to go to Nineveh. He's like, I ain't going to Nineveh, no way. Uh-uh, I'm doing that. But we saw, we know how that ends. And so my question to you is, for someone right now who is maybe working at a church or or going to church, but they feel how how do they know if if they if their path is my is leading somewhere else? Because maybe they're maybe the spirit is prompting them with something, but they're like, ooh, I don't know. I don't know. I think I should just keep coming and doing the same thing and and follow what everyone else is doing. Cause that seems that's what in it

First aired 10/18/2026 You've spoken up. You've set the boundary. Two years later, nothing has changed. For a lot of high performers, that's the moment burnout sets in and they quietly check out. In this episode, Dana sits down with Timothy Ernst, an HR and organizational development leader with more than three decades of experience in manufacturing and construction, to ask what really has to change when saying the words isn't enough. Tim got into HR "backwards," moving from broadcast journalism into organizational development, and he has spent his career learning the work from the assembly line to the construction site. Together, they talk about why HR needs a seat at the table, the difference between listening and truly hearing, why turnover is the clearest measure of culture, what to do when your company has no HR department, and why AI is a tool, not a replacement for people. Watch this episode https://youtu.be/Vlkctg2-GaI In this episode Why HR earns its seat at the table by understanding operations and the P&L, and how to move from tactical to strategic The difference between a manager who listens and a leader who truly hears, and why humility and owning mistakes build trust Why turnover, especially among your high-potential employees, is the clearest measure of your culture, and how quiet quitting begins What to do when you've spoken up and nothing changes, including when there is no HR department Why AI is a powerful tool but people still have to execute, and the five connected systems behind a healthy culture Timestamps (00:01) Welcome and guest intro: meet Timothy Ernst, an HR and organizational development leader with 30+ years of experience (02:58) Getting into HR "backwards": from broadcast journalism to organizational development (04:55) Lessons from Whirlpool and a "PhD level education in human emotion" (06:20) Why HR needs a seat at the table: learning the business and the P&L (07:57) How HR is viewed and the pain points of working in HR (09:04) Tactical vs. strategic HR, and creating a safe space to talk (10:26) Keeping veteran knowledge in-house by leveraging experienced leaders for their minds (12:48) You've spoken up for two years and nothing has changed: now what? (14:54) Listening vs. hearing, and why leaders need humility (16:51) Daily management systems: what happens when nobody's watching (18:18) Leading virtual teams and building trust through intentional check-ins (19:53) Belonging, burnout, and quiet quitting (21:21) Turnover and high-potential employees as a measure of culture (21:46) "Do more with less," overwhelm, and the cost of burnout (23:59) What leaders and HR can do: play to strengths and give stretch assignments (26:56) No HR department? Ask your manager: can you take a risk? (28:01) Dana's "yards" model of boundaries (29:27) How AI will impact the workplace: a tool, not a replacement (32:03) Authenticity in an AI-assisted world (33:14) Keeping your own voice, and Tim's book Systems Over Slogans (35:17) Where to find Timothy Ernst and his books (37:53) Why his book is different: communication, conflict, and five connected systems About Timothy Ernst Timothy Ernst is an HR, organizational development, and leadership development professional with more than three decades of experience at the intersection of people, operations, and business strategy. He began in broadcast journalism, found his way into organizational development at Western Kentucky University, and went on to work at Whirlpool and in the construction industry, where he made a point of working alongside crews to see the job through their eyes. He is writing two books: Systems Over Slogans: How Leaders Build Cultures That Perform, Adapt, and Endure, and a second on leveraging HR as a strategic partner. Connect with Timothy on LinkedIn and follow him there for updates on his books. Favorite quotes "There is a very big difference between listening and hearing." —Timothy Ernst "They've quit on the job, they just forgot to tell you." —Timothy Ernst "You're never going to know that until you take that risk and ask the question." —Timothy Ernst Resources mentioned Systems Over Slogans: How Leaders Build Cultures That Perform, Adapt, and Endure by Timothy Ernst: follow Timothy on LinkedIn for release updates Timothy's second book on HR as a strategic partner: currently in progress Timothy Ernst on LinkedIn Subscribe & connect If this episode gave you something to sit with, follow Phoenix and Flame so you never miss an episode: all apps in one place, or jump straight to Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, or YouTube. And if it moved you, leave a review; it's the easiest way to help another listener find the show. Learn more about Phoenix and Flame, connect with Dana, and listen to more episodes here. Ready to find your own voice on stage? Dana's a big fan of Mic Drop Academy, a public speaking and group coaching program built for women. Watch the free webinar, join a workshop, or dive into the bootcamp to build the confidence to speak up and be heard. (These are affiliate links — Dana may earn a commission at no extra cost to you.) Read the full transcript Dana (00:01) Welcome friends. Whether you're out on a walk, running errands, or relaxing at home, it's wonderful to connect with you. Joining us today is Timothy Ernst. Now, Timothy, for more than three decades, worked at the intersection of human resources, organizational development, leadership development. Dana (00:28) And business strategy, but then he became fascinated with a question. Why do some organizations achieve sustainable success while others struggle? Even though all the organizations have access to similar resources, technology, and opportunities. Tim, welcome to Phoenix in Flame. Timothy Ernst (00:56) Thanks for having me, Dana. I really appreciate it. Dana (00:59) This is amazing. Now guys, I I ran across Tim on LinkedIn because as we'll do and and I'm wanting to support high performers and burnout and and all the things and so I'm trying to connect with people. Well what you what happens on LinkedIn, for those that don't know, it can be a fabulous place and sometimes you run into folks that I don't know, they're dry. They seem like they're they have good words. Dana (01:29) Good words, good descriptions, but then when you try to make a connection and you try to create a relationship to get something to happen, there's just there's not a lot there. either they're not interested or to be brutally honest, and that's what we're like on Phoenix and Flame, they're just really boring. Right? It's just like you fall asleep talking to them, all right. So Dana (01:55) Tim and I, that's not what happened. We I I found him on there. I'm like, my gosh, I love what he was standing for. I love his his supportive people, which we're gonna get into all of this. And then we reached out and we had a connection call. And we really we had fun, we laughed, we we we had a good time and we talked about stuff that really mattered because I could tell from Tim, and we're gonna we're gonna unpack it here, that he was willing to go there and address the real things and say the words. Dana (02:22) Because I really don't have a lot of patience for people that aren't willing to go there and address the real issues. Cause as a therapist, I hear about these real issues in my office. So this is where people really live. And so if we can't talk about it, we're wasting time as far as I'm concerned. So Tim, I'm very glad to have you on Phoenix and Flame. So, I like to create space in the beginning of the podcast for my guests to Timothy Ernst (02:47) That's fair. Dana (02:47) decide, do you want to start at the beginning? Dana (02:52) Y H R. Or do you have a story you want to jump right into? We'll go wherever you want to go. Timothy Ernst (02:58) Well, I like to tell people that I got into the HR space backwards. I was I I tell the story, I'm one of these guys that knew exactly what he wanted to do when he graduated high school. I went into college, jumped into broadcast journalism, radio and TV news. And by my junior year, I was going, there has got to be more to life than dealing with everyone's tragedies. the the media back then is definitely not the media that it is today. Timothy Ernst (03:28) this whole if it bleeds, it leads mentality. It just it it really wore on. I was asked April before May graduation, where I went to the Western Kentucky University. They asked me, Hey, do you want to come back and work on your master's degree? We feel like you've got a lot of things that you can teach us. We still feel like we have things that we can teach you. and by the way, we'll pay you to teach. Okay. Hey. Timothy Ernst (03:57) Real life or stay in school. I'll stay in school. I very quickly learned why I was there. I found this class in training and organizational development. This is where I say I got into HR backwards. I went in through the OD side of things. learned how to connect. I had used a lot of the knowledge and skill that I had developed in the broadcast field, started doing safety videos, stuff like that. Timothy Ernst (04:27) I ran across Dr. Randy Caps. He was the head of the Department of Communication and Broadcasting. he one of his largest customers that he was working with through his consulting business was the Lowpool Corporation. He asked me if I would work, come and work for him. he took me under, yes, ma'am, the local pool corporation. Dana (04:44) Was that whir whirlpool you said? Okay. Gotcha. Timothy Ernst (04:48) Right Randy took me under his wing. And I I can honestly say that when we look back at my career. Timothy Ernst (04:55) There are individuals that I can say, I am where I am because they made me a better version of me. Randy really lit that flame. so at Whirlpool, after about five years there, moving a 53-year-old manufacturing facility from a management-based organization and a team-bas

First aired September 6, 2026 Dennis Bairos oversees more than 29 fitness locations across Texas, and somewhere between the grand openings and the late-night emails, he noticed a pattern: he was the guy who'd rather miss a flight than admit he needed help, the coach whose sideline energy made his own wife ask if he was okay, and the traveler who'd rather squeeze in one more phone call than let 20 free minutes in a rental car go to waste. That pattern became his book, Wired Like This: Why Men Push Too Far and Still Say, I Got It!, a look at the small, everyday decisions at home, at work, and on the sideline of a kid's game that shape how men actually behave, often without them noticing. We talk about why "I got it" might be the most dangerous phrase a man can say, the difference between healthy work ethic and ego-driven burnout, why men go all-in on a hobby and then abandon it completely, and how his wife became the one voice who could see what he couldn't. Watch this episode https://youtu.be/sRsXcIgmVAo In this episode Why "I got it" might be the most dangerous phrase men say, and the ego hiding underneath it How Dennis's competitive, all-or-nothing wiring showed up coaching his kids' T-ball team, and the moment his wife had to tell him he'd gone overboard The real story behind missing a flight because he couldn't stop multitasking, even for a 20-minute drive to the airport Why work ethic can be a genuine skill and a trap at the same time, and how to tell the difference before it becomes burnout What's actually happening when a man goes all-in on a hobby, buys all the gear, and then drops it completely a year later How framing "asking for help" as the next level of leadership, instead of a weakness, changes the way teams operate Why a leader's pace becomes part of their identity, and the hidden cost that pace puts on everyone who reports to them Timestamps (00:01) Welcome and guest intro: meet Dennis Bairos, author of Wired Like This (00:57) His background in high-growth fitness leadership, and how that pace carried over to parenting (03:51) "Stop half-assing it": the moment Dana's own son called out her push, push, push mentality (05:54) Is "I got it" a male trait, or does Dana see it in women too? (08:38) The fear of slowing down: work ethic, ego, and the competition to be first in, last out (12:06) The missed flight: a real-time example of multitasking costing more than it saves (14:55) Why "I got it" might be the most dangerous thing men say (18:25) Reframing asking for help as the next level of leadership, not a weakness (22:13) What his wife saw in his coaching that he couldn't see in himself (24:52) The T-ball season that revealed his coaching had gone overboard (27:13) Why men go all-in on a hobby, then drop it completely (33:22) The airport conversation that changed how he leads: why a leader's pace becomes their identity (36:53) Where to find Dennis, his book, and his Instagram About Dennis Bairos Dennis Bairos is the author of Wired Like This: Why Men Push Too Far and Still Say, I Got It! A husband and father of three, he oversees more than 29 fitness locations across Texas as a senior leader in high-growth, high-volume organizations. He writes about the small, everyday decisions at home, at work, and on the sideline of a kid's game that shape how men actually behave. Connect with Dennis on Instagram or LinkedIn. His book, Wired Like This, is available exclusively on Amazon. Favorite quotes "I got it" might be the most dangerous thing men say. —Dennis Bairos "When your pace becomes your identity, the people who follow you don't just see the results — they see the costs." —Dennis Bairos "You will be more successful, and looked at as someone that's admired a little bit more, because you took that extra step and showed courage to ask for help." —Dennis Bairos Resources mentioned Wired Like This: Why Men Push Too Far and Still Say, I Got It!: Dennis's book, available exclusively on Amazon Dennis on Instagram: @keep.the.edge Dennis Bairos on LinkedIn Subscribe & connect If this episode gave you something to sit with, follow Phoenix and Flame so you never miss an episode: all apps in one place, or jump straight to Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, or YouTube. And if it moved you, leave a review; it's the easiest way to help another listener find the show. Learn more about Phoenix and Flame, connect with Dana, and listen to more episodes here. Ready to find your own voice on stage? Dana's a big fan of Mic Drop Academy, a public speaking and group coaching program built for women. Watch the free webinar, join a workshop, or dive into the bootcamp to build the confidence to speak up and be heard. (These are affiliate links — Dana may earn a commission at no extra cost to you.) Read the full transcript [Dana] (00:01) Welcome, friends. Whether you're out on a walk, running errands, or relaxing at home, it's wonderful to connect with you. Joining us today is Dennis Bairos. Dennis is the author of Wired Like This: Why Men Push Too Far and Still Say, I Got It! He's a husband, a father of three, with a background in senior leadership. He writes about the small, everyday decisions at home, at work, on the sideline of a kid's game, that shape how men actually behave. Dennis, welcome to Phoenix and Flame. [Dennis] (00:47) Yeah, thanks for having me. Guilty — yeah, all of that's correct. I did write that book. Happy to be here, and looking forward to the conversation. [Dana] (00:57) This is fantastic. First of all, I'm interested in a bit of your background. You said you were in senior leadership — since I do a lot of work in the corporate space, helping people with burnout, that was one of the things that drew me to you: the masculine, the male mindset that could possibly trip somebody up at work. I work with high performers, and they say the things that are in your book. So I want to create some space for you to share — what experiences have you had in senior leadership, what have you noticed there, and also with your family, and how these things helped you arrive at writing a book? [Dennis] (01:47) Yeah, so I've been in the fitness industry for quite some time — practically my entire career. Most of the organizations I've been with, including the current one, have been really high-volume, high-growth companies. I currently oversee over 29 locations here in Texas, big-box fitness spaces, so really rampant growth. Most of my career, I've had to move pretty fast — it's nonstop. I've had to work a lot, and most of it is self-induced, just me trying to keep up and trying to be a high performer myself. I think that's natural for me — I'm a natural leader, so I'm always taking probably more ownership than the average person. And that's carried over to my family and my children. I noticed early on that I brought that over to my kids as well. Once they started getting into youth sports, that drive, that push, the long practices, the long hours — it's funny, on a podcast last week I was asked, "do you feel like you're bringing over your own competitiveness from your past as a child competing in sports?" And I thought about it for a second — I don't think so. I don't have this unsettled, failed athletic career I'm trying to settle through my children. I think it's just natural for me to push, to teach kids that if you want to get better at something, you've got to keep practicing, keep moving. I'm kind of an all-or-nothing person. I don't watch many sports, but the ones I do, I'm all in, a diehard fan. That's really how I run my life — it's very much natural. [Dana] (03:51) I love this description. I'm taking notes as you're talking, because I don't want to interrupt you. I'd like to be able to say the same — no, I'm a very competitive person. I get bruises playing musical chairs, and that's not hyperbole — I literally had bruises from my shoulders to my ankles playing musical chairs one year at a fall festival at my church. So I'm thinking of the phrase, "if you're not bleeding, you're not playing." I have three kids as well, and my husband is also a very competitive person. And my youngest son confronted me, appropriately so, one time — I'd said to him one too many times, "stop half-assing it," and he called me on it. I feel like it was appropriate, because I was so in my own head about push, push, push, push, and he'd had it — I'd gone too far. I think that's a lot of what you're talking about in your book, and I want to hear more. Your book is focused on men, and I want to ask — if your experience has been, not necessarily with your daughter, but with coworkers, friends — do you feel like this can be a personality style? Have you run into men who didn't have this "I got it, I'm not going to use GPS, I'm going to figure this out" kind of drive? How much of that do you feel is a male trait, which I think a lot of people would agree with, and have you seen these traits in some of the women you've interacted with as well? [Dennis] (05:54) Certainly. From a female perspective — my wife and I, the dynamic between us — my wife works incredibly hard, works remote, homeschools all three of our children, works out every day, but she's got this self-regulation in her that I don't seem to have, or at least mine doesn't work the same way. She'll come up with reasons to sleep and the need for sleeping, and I come up with reasons not to sleep. Even though I have a fitness-minded background and know the importance of it, for whatever reason, I can't seem to sleep past 6 a.m. on a Saturday. So I see similarities across the board. What's interesting is when I released the book, I started getting calls and texts, or I'd run into people — men who I'd think have completely different personalities from mine. Guys who don't have children, don't participate in sports, aren't ultra-competitive — they'd read my book and tell me, "we're a lot alike." I found tha

First aired September 6, 2026 Dr. Charleanea Arellano has spent over 30 years as a clinical psychologist and leadership coach, but the framework she's best known for now, the Embodied Narrative Framework, didn't come from a textbook. It came from putting away laundry five years ago and noticing her own body bracing for impact, for no reason at all, at age 55, after decades of actually being safe. Dr. Arellano built her career studying how high-achieving women lead while carrying nervous systems shaped by trauma, and by the added weight of managing how their race, sexuality, or gender is perceived in the room. As a queer Latina psychologist who didn't come out publicly until 2024, and who spent years often being the only person of color at the table, she's lived the pattern she now helps her clients unwind. We talk about what a chronically activated nervous system actually feels like in the body, the subtle and not-so-subtle ways bias shows up in a room, why "just get a massage" isn't a real fix for high achievers, and the simple, several-times-a-day nervous system reset she teaches instead. Watch this epsiode on Youtube | Subscribe  In this episode Why Dr. Arellano's own healing journey, not her doctorate, is what actually led her to the nervous system work she's known for today What it felt like to be the only person of color in the room for decades, and the subtle versus overt ways bias and microaggressions actually show up How to tell when your nervous system is activated, from bracing for impact to chronic anxiety, and why it starts in the body, not the mind The physical toll of years of unresolved activation: TMJ, chronic headaches, fatigue, digestive issues, and more Why women and men are socialized to handle stress so differently, and what that means for high-achieving women specifically The several-times-a-day nervous system reset Dr. Arellano teaches her clients, and why it only takes seconds Balancing connection and protection with family members who caused real harm, and what it looks like to set a boundary without needing them to understand it Timestamps (00:01) Welcome and guest intro: meet psychologist and Embodied Narrative Framework founder Dr. Charleanea Arellano (03:07) Her path into psychology: curiosity about human behavior, a high school class, and a PhD by 29 (05:26) "We are a version of our perfect client": how her own experience as a high achiever managing perceptions shaped her work (07:52) The subtle and overt ways bias shows up in a room, from stopped conversations to backhanded compliments (11:49) Stepping away from the professional world in 2003 after years of navigating belonging and credibility (13:24) What it actually feels like when your nervous system is activated: bracing, anxiety, and the body's fight-or-run response (20:35) The chronic physical toll: TMJ, headaches, fatigue, digestive issues, and chronic pain (24:30) Why women carry stress differently than men, and what that means for high-achieving women (25:57) The several-times-a-day nervous system reset, and why "just get a massage" doesn't work for high achievers (33:36) Her books: the memoir Terrible Gifts and The Last Dance, on intergenerational trauma with her father (37:01) Balancing connection and protection: boundaries with family members who caused real harm (40:06) Where to find Dr. Arellano and her work About Dr. Charleanea Arellano Dr. Charleanea Arellano is a licensed psychologist and Board Certified Life Coach with over 30 years of clinical and leadership experience, and the founder of the Embodied Narrative Framework. A queer Latina psychologist, she helps high-achieving women understand how nervous system patterns, trauma-adapted achievement, and the added stress of managing how their race, sexuality, or gender is perceived shape the way they decide, lead, and relate to success. Her own healing journey, including decades of navigating rooms where she was often the only person of color, informs her work today. She's the author of the forthcoming memoir Terrible Gifts: Finding the Light in the Darkest of Places, and The Last Dance, which explores intergenerational trauma through her relationship with her father. Learn more at Dr. Charleanea's website, or connect with her on LinkedIn. Favorite quotes "We are a version of our perfect client." —Dr. Charleanea Arellano "It starts with the nervous system. The nervous system is online before we have any conscious thought about it. It's running the show." —Dr. Charleanea Arellano "This is hygiene. This is another form of hygiene — nervous system hygiene that you do throughout the day." —Dr. Charleanea Arellano, on why a 30-second reset matters as much as brushing your teeth Resources mentioned Dr. Charleanea's website: home to her coaching practice and more on the Embodied Narrative Framework Terrible Gifts: Finding the Light in the Darkest of Places: Dr. Arellano's forthcoming memoir, currently in the publication process The Last Dance: her book on intergenerational trauma, told through her relationship with her father Dr. Charleanea Arellano on LinkedIn Subscribe & connect If this episode gave you something to sit with, follow Phoenix and Flame so you never miss an episode: all apps in one place, or jump straight to Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, or YouTube. And if it moved you, leave a review; it's the easiest way to help another listener find the show. Learn more about Phoenix and Flame, connect with Dana, and listen to more episodes here. Ready to find your own voice on stage? Dana's a big fan of Mic Drop Academy, a public speaking and group coaching program built for women. Watch the free webinar, join a workshop, or dive into the bootcamp to build the confidence to speak up and be heard. (These are affiliate links — Dana may earn a commission at no extra cost to you.) Take the free Work Boundaries Quiz

First aired August 23, 2026 Annette Mullin spent 24 years with the Las Vegas Metropolitan Police Department, nine of them as a crisis negotiator, eventually leading one of the busiest negotiation teams in the country â€" averaging over 100 call-outs a year. She worked patrol, sexual assault, internal affairs, and homicide, becoming LVMPD's first female homicide sergeant, before spending her final years as the department's director of employee wellness in the aftermath of the October 1 Mandalay Bay shooting, the largest mass shooting in U.S. history. Now a negotiation instructor and coach at the Black Swan Group, founded by former FBI lead hostage negotiator Chris Voss, Annette translates those high-stakes lessons into practical tools for leaders, teams, and individuals navigating pressure, conflict, and growth. We talk about the universal need she discovered in every person she ever negotiated with, why the crime itself is almost always a secondary issue, what "tactical empathy" actually looks like in practice, and why most of us were never actually taught how to listen. Watch this episode Youtube episode link here In this episode How the O.J. Simpson case and a criminalistics program in LA sparked Annette's path into crime scene investigation, and why she chose Las Vegas over LAPD Joining LVMPD's crisis negotiation team, and what made Las Vegas's team one of the busiest in the country Becoming LVMPD's first female homicide sergeant, and the advice that helped her navigate a male-dominated field without making it about gender Why removing assumptions, and getting curious instead of judgmental, changed how she worked with people in crisis The universal need Annette discovered every person in crisis shares, no matter how different the circumstances Why the crime itself is almost always a secondary issue, and what's usually driving it underneath How Chris Voss's "tactical empathy" model, from Never Split the Difference, turns negotiation into collaboration instead of a tug-of-war The five levels of listening Black Swan teaches, and why most of us are trained to listen to respond instead of to understand Timestamps (00:01) Welcome and guest intro: meet retired LVMPD crisis negotiator Annette Mullin (02:23) From the East Coast to Las Vegas: the O.J. Simpson case and her path into crime scene investigation (04:42) Joining the crisis negotiation team, and Las Vegas's brutal call-out numbers (06:36) Retiring after serving as director of employee wellness following the October 1 Mandalay Bay shooting (08:15) What drew her to law enforcement as a kid, from Nancy Drew to Quincy, M.E. (10:10) Navigating gender in a male-dominated field, and becoming LVMPD's first female homicide sergeant (14:00) Removing assumptions: why curiosity beats judgment when someone has "a chip on their shoulder" (16:52) The universal need every person in crisis shares, and why that surprised her most (20:05) Why the crime is almost always the secondary issue (24:28) From hostage negotiation to the boardroom: Chris Voss, Black Swan Group, and tactical empathy (28:43) The biggest obstacle to listening, and the five levels of listening Black Swan teaches (31:50) The number one struggle business leaders bring to her, and why practicing in "low stakes" moments matters (34:12) Where to find Annette, Black Swan Group, and the new book Fight Less, Win More About Annette Mullin Annette Mullin is a retired Las Vegas Metropolitan Police Department leader with 24 years of law enforcement experience, including nine years as a crisis negotiator and eventual leader of LVMPD's crisis negotiation team, one of the busiest in the country. Over her career she worked patrol, community policing, sexual assault, internal affairs, and homicide, becoming LVMPD's first female homicide sergeant, before serving as the department's director of employee wellness in the aftermath of the October 1 Mandalay Bay shooting. Now a negotiation instructor and coach at the Black Swan Group, founded by former FBI lead hostage negotiator Chris Voss, Annette teaches the principles behind Never Split the Difference, including tactical empathy, to leaders, teams, and individuals navigating pressure and conflict in business and life. Learn more at the Black Swan Group, or connect with Annette on LinkedIn. Favorite quotes "There is a universal need for every person to be heard, to be seen, and to be understood."  "Not everybody is like you. Removing assumptions was really key, let them show you or tell you."  "If I read a book about working out every week but never lift a weight, I can't expect to see anything different."  Resources mentioned Black Swan Group: negotiation training founded by former FBI lead hostage negotiator Chris Voss Never Split the Difference by Chris Voss: the book that brings hostage-negotiation principles like tactical empathy into business and everyday life Fight Less, Win More: Chris Voss's newest book, adapting those same skills for personal relationships Annette Mullin on LinkedIn Subscribe & connect If this episode gave you something to sit with, follow Phoenix and Flame so you never miss an episode: all apps in one place, or jump straight to Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, or YouTube. And if it moved you, leave a review; it's the easiest way to help another listener find the show. Learn more about Phoenix and Flame, connect with Dana, and listen to more episodes here. Ready to find your own voice on stage? Dana's a big fan of Mic Drop Academy, a public speaking and group coaching program built for women. Watch the free webinar, join a workshop, or dive into the bootcamp to build the confidence to speak up and be heard.

First aired August 16, 2026 For over a decade, Dave Mowry couldn't get out of bed, couldn't shower, and couldn't walk to his own mailbox without waiting until dark so a neighbor wouldn't catch the look in his eyes. In 1994, a psychotic break sent the successful businessman and family man into a depression so deep it cost him his house, his career, and 14 years he calls his "lost years." He slept in his clothes for months at a time. At parties, he'd stand against the wall and pray no one came over to talk to him. Then, at his wife's urging, he walked into a stand-up comedy class for people living with mental illness, and by the second session, something shifted: he started looking for the joke inside the pain. Dave is now a bestselling author, a blogger with over a million reads, a peer support specialist, and, in his own words, "a comic who shatters stigma one joke at a time." We get into what clinical depression actually feels like from the inside, why his wife is the true hero of his story, how a ten-week comedy class became group therapy in disguise, the gentle suicide joke that helped save a young man's life, and why people in the mental health field need to stop trying to "protect" the very people they're meant to be supporting. Watch this episode In this episode Why a 1994 psychotic break sent a successful businessman into 14 "lost years" of homelessness and depression What clinical depression actually feels like: the showers he couldn't take, the mailbox trips timed for after dark, and the panic attacks that came out of nowhere Why "just do something small," like sitting in a different chair, was enough to keep Dave from getting stuck in hopelessness What family members need to understand about mental illness, and how Dave's wife became "the hero of his story" How a NAMI stand-up comedy class turned Dave's pain into laugh-out-loud jokes, and eventually a sold-out show at Helium Comedy Club Dave's gentle suicide joke, why it works, and the night it helped save a young man's life Why people in the helping professions need to stop trying to "save" people with mental illness and start supporting them instead Timestamps (00:01) Welcome and guest intro: meet comic and mental health advocate Dave Mowry (01:16) The 1994 psychotic break, and the 14 "lost years" that followed (03:56) What clinical depression actually feels like: showers, blending into the wall, panic attacks (07:10) The exhausting weight of "just getting out of bed" (08:41) Don't get stuck: the small, deliberate choices that kept hope alive (10:15) What family members need to understand: it's not a moral failing (11:26) Dave's wife, the true hero of his story (14:34) Finding NAMI's stand-up comedy class, and the moment humor clicked (17:59) Selling out Helium Comedy Club, and becoming "a thing" (19:51) Blogging, "OMG, that's me," and shattering stigma one joke at a time (25:32) Teaching comedy: the setup, the punchline, and getting students to open up (26:10) Dave's gentle suicide joke, and the night it helped save a life (32:42) Boundaries, mania, and giving himself permission to say no (37:25) Where to find Dave, his books, and how to reach him About Dave Mowry Dave Mowry is a bestselling author, blogger, and stand-up comic who shatters stigma one joke at a time. After a 1994 psychotic break led to 14 "lost years" of severe depression, homelessness, and hospitalization, Dave found his way back through NAMI (National Alliance on Mental Illness) and a stand-up comedy class for people living with mental illness. He went on to sell out Portland's Helium Comedy Club, teach comedy classes to people living with mental illness, and become a peer support specialist. He's the author of OMG, That's Me! and Healing with Humor, and his blog for bphope.com has been read over a million times. Learn more and get in touch at Dave's website, or reach him directly at [email protected]. Favorite quotes "It's not a moral failing. It's a medical condition." —Dave Mowry "Afterwards, I called my wife for help. She said, 'There are more pills under the sink.'" —Dave Mowry, on the gentle suicide joke that's helped save lives "We don't need to be saved. Support us and all that, but don't try to save us. We don't need it." —Dave Mowry Resources mentioned Dave's website: home to his books and a contact form OMG, That's Me!: Dave's bestselling book on what it's really like to live with a mental illness, available on Amazon and Kindle Healing with Humor: Dave's newest book, telling the story of six comedy-class students and their transformation NAMI (National Alliance on Mental Illness): the organization that connected Dave to the comedy class that changed his life Helium Comedy Club (Portland): where Dave's class sold out a 185-seat show Subscribe & connect If this episode gave you something to sit with,

In this episode, Dana is joined by Kurt Bush, a trauma-informed coach who helps leaders move from imposter syndrome to authentic confidence. Kurt shares his own journey with imposter syndrome, from feeling like a fraud in corporate leadership meetings to realizing his true calling. He explains that to make a change, the pain of staying the same must become greater than the pain of changing, a threshold many of us fear crossing. Kurt introduces the ERT (Encounter + Reflection = Transformation) framework, a practical approach to help you get unstuck. He reveals why the first step to moving forward is often learning to "start stopping" the things that drain your energy, allowing you to create a life that is truly aligned with who you are.  Kurt's Website Kurt's Linkedin ------------- Learn more about Phoenix and Flame, connect with Dana, and listen to more episodes here: Book Dana for your next speaking event or workshop

A midlife crisis isn't actually a crisis. That's the challenge Jody Brooks puts to anyone who's ever felt lost, restless, or quietly convinced something's wrong with them somewhere around 40 or 50: what looks like burnout, and what people love to write off as a freakout, is more often a calling. His own arrived at lunchtime at the office, buzzing canteen and all, when he found himself sitting in a restroom cubicle, crying so hard he could barely breathe. No brutal meeting that morning. No disaster. Just the quiet moment his body picked to file its formal complaint: burnout wasn't a "rough patch" anymore, it was a full-body shutdown. I've been a therapist for 18 years, and I can tell you: high performers do this. We white-knuckle through "one more day" (and one more, and one more) until the body stops asking politely. Sound familiar? Jody is a UK-based midlife and burnout coach who once survived 52 flights in eight months of what he calls "jazz hands" performing, and his calling-not-crisis framework is asking you to come home to yourself. We get into how to spot the full-body warning signs before you hit your own cubicle moment, how to settle anxiety in the moment it spikes (not three weeks and one forced sabbatical later), and Jody's wonderfully backwards first step for anyone feeling stuck: don't start something new. Start stopping. Watch this episode on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qfi9lec7n2o In this episode Why burnout can feel like "just a bad day" until it suddenly isn't, and how to recognize the full-body warning signs before you hit the wall Why a midlife crisis isn't really a crisis at all: it's a calling to reconnect with who you actually are The anxiety-regulation technique Jody uses with coaching clients to come back from a stress spiral in real time Why you can't be "out of alignment" until you know what alignment actually means, and how to find your starting point The "start stopping" exercise for anyone who wants change but doesn't know where to begin How understanding your core values turns boundaries from something scary into something guilt-free Timestamps (00:01) Welcome and guest intro: meet midlife and burnout coach Jody Brooks (01:47) The restroom-cubicle "pile of ash" moment: burnout as a full-body shutdown (04:34) The three-hour drive home, and the decision to stop (06:43) Fear, anxiety, and the "one small thing" that finally breaks us (10:10) Jody's technique for regulating anxiety and stress in the moment (13:59) What alignment really means (and the bus analogy) (19:39) Why younger generations and midlifers experience burnout differently (24:37) The blank-page moment: reclaiming your story through empowerment (25:43) "Start stopping": Jody's first step for anyone feeling stuck (29:21) Boundaries, core values, and why saying no is an act of service (33:17) Where to find Jody and his free resources About Jody Brooks Jody Brooks is a UK-based midlife and burnout coach and the founder of Authentic Coaching. After burning out during a high-pressure international career in education (one stretch included 52 flights in eight months) he developed the nine principles of authentic living, a practical framework that helps people turn crisis into connection and sustainable well-being. Learn more and join his free community at Jody's website, or connect with him on LinkedIn. Favorite quotes "I actually can't go back." —Jody Brooks, on the moment burnout finally broke through "Start stopping. Stopping what no longer serves you." —Jody Brooks "If you don't know where you're going, any road will take you there." —Jody Brooks Resources mentioned AuthenticCoaching.me: Jody's website and free community, home to the "Start Stopping" exercise and the anxiety-regulation technique he mentions on the show Jody's nine principles of authentic living (his coaching framework, discussed throughout the episode) Jody Brooks on LinkedIn Subscribe & connect If this episode gave you something to sit with, follow Phoenix and Flame so you never miss an episode: all apps in one place, or jump straight to Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, or YouTube. And if it moved you, leave a review; it's the easiest way to help another listener find the show. Learn more about Phoenix and Flame, connect with Dana, and listen to more episodes here. Curious where your own boundaries stand? Take my free Work Boundaries Quiz: danaskaggs.com/quiz

Two in the morning. Sitting on the toilet, clothed, bawling into a pillow, because a broken PC was the last thing standing between him and the self-employed life he wanted so badly he could feel it in his teeth. That's where my guest this week hit rock bottom: not one dramatic collapse, but months of computer problems piling on top of a dream that felt like it was never going to happen. A client shared one quote with him that day, and Aaron Ryan has carried it in his back pocket for almost twenty years since: "The temptation to quit is always greatest just before your greatest success." Aaron is an award-winning, bestselling author of the six-book Dissonance alien invasion saga (one installment is being pitched to streaming networks right now), plus dozens of other titles across sci-fi, historical fiction, and children's books, and he's also a working voice actor. We talk about the "Illuminati" he ran into at the top of the voiceover industry, the sting of writing 300 blog posts meant to encourage people only to be told they were "nothing," and why he walked away from that world entirely to go back to his first love: storytelling. Aaron also shares his best advice for anyone starting out as a writer (be authentic, steer clear of generative AI, and grow thick skin fast), and the 9/11 historical novel he wrote as an act of catharsis, imagining a world where the attacks never happened. If you've ever felt like an imposter next to people who seem to have it all figured out, or you're right on the edge of giving up on something you can feel in your teeth, this conversation is the reminder that the breakdown right before the breakthrough is often just... the process. Watch this episode on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mHeG1Oqaspc In this episode The quote Aaron has carried for almost 20 years, and the two memory sticks that changed his entire career Why running into "the Illuminati" of the voiceover industry, and being told his encouragement blogs were "nothing," turned out to be his breakthrough in disguise Aaron's advice for anyone who wants to write a book: be authentic, avoid generative AI, and grow thick skin fast Why holding a finished book in your hands matters more than whether anyone buys it How Aaron turned personal catharsis into fiction, including a 9/11 historical novel where the attacks never happen What "breakdown to breakthrough, wash, rinse, repeat" really looks like over a creative career Timestamps (00:01) Welcome and guest intro: meet award-winning author Aaron Ryan (01:38) The Dissonance saga, Hollywood pitches, and film festival wins (03:04) The young author's club at age 10, and being "fated" to write (04:39) Advice for new writers: be authentic, avoid AI, grow thick skin (07:38) Imposter syndrome, and the 7,500 books published on Amazon every day (09:57) "The Electric Boy": writing his first "book" at age seven (13:20) Why Aaron writes sci-fi, post-apocalyptic, and dystopian fiction (16:57) The "Illuminati" of the voiceover industry, and walking away from it (22:46) 2007: leaving full-time work, and the PC that wouldn't stop breaking (24:12) Bawling into a pillow at 2am, and the quote that changed everything (26:31) Breakdown to breakthrough, wash, rinse, repeat (28:31) Aaron's favorite books: The End Omega, and a 9/11 novel where the attacks never happen (35:00) Where to find Aaron and his books About Aaron Ryan Aaron Ryan is an award-winning and best-selling author, speaker, panelist, workshop presenter, and voice actor. He's the author of the six-book Dissonance alien invasion saga (currently being pitched to streaming networks), the Christian dystopian series The End, the 9/11 historical fiction novel Forecast, and dozens of other titles across sci-fi, historical fiction, and children's books. He lives in Washington with his wife, two sons, and a small menagerie of pets. Learn more at Aaron's website, or join his free community for screenplay updates, discount codes, giveaways, and appearances. Favorite quotes "The temptation to quit is always greatest just before your greatest success." —a line Aaron Ryan has carried in his back pocket for almost 20 years "If you can steer clear of AI, please do. Don't outsource your work to a chip." —Aaron Ryan "I must create or I'm gonna blow up, I'll explode." —Aaron Ryan Resources mentioned AuthorAaronRyan.com: Aaron's website, with links to all his books and social channels Aaron's free Facebook community: screenplay status updates, discount codes, giveaways, and appearances Dissonance, Aaron's six-book alien invasion saga The End Omega, the finale of Aaron's Christian dystopian series Forecast, Aaron's 9/11 historical fiction novel Related episodes From Rock Bottom to Mountain Top: Interview with Kevin Palmieri: another guest's road from the bottom back up From Tragedy to Triumph: Rhonda Britten's Path to a Fearless Life: more on turning devastation into a fearless second act From the Edge of Suicide to the Grace of Grief: another raw conversation about finding hope in the darkest moment Subscribe & connect If this episode gave you something to sit with, follow Phoenix and Flame so you never miss an episode: all apps in one place, or jump straight to Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, or YouTube. And if it moved you, leave a review; it's the easiest way to help another listener find the show. Learn more about Phoenix and Flame, connect with Dana, and listen to more episodes here. Curious where your own boundaries stand? Take my free Work Boundaries Quiz: danaskaggs.com/quiz

Four years of chronic pain. A fibromyalgia diagnosis. Muscle relaxers, pain pills, migraines, MRI after MRI. And through all of it, my guest this week kept hearing the same quiet voice: something doesn't fit. Rebecca Russell listened to it anyway, tracked down a neurosurgeon, and asked for one test nobody else had run: a discogram. It found the bulging disc that had been the actual problem the whole time, and eighty-five percent of her symptoms disappeared after surgery. Rebecca is a metabolism and lifestyle coach, certified essential oil specialist, and author who's spent more than three decades turning her own health crises, a prediabetes warning in her thirties and years of unexplained chronic pain, into a holistic approach she now teaches other people. We talk about the difference between managing symptoms and finding root cause, how to bring up wanting to try something holistic without blowing up the relationship with a doctor you've trusted for decades, and the "black year" she spent as a stay-at-home mom feeling brain-dead and guilty for wanting more, before a community-college pamphlet turned into an unexpected ten-year path to becoming a published novelist. If you've ever been told your labs are "normal" while you know something is wrong, Rebecca's message is blunt and useful: do your homework, and don't let anyone, including a doctor you love, talk you out of your own intuition. Watch this episode on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aa0h2DJgFWg In this episode Why Rebecca trusted her own intuition over four years of doctors telling her to just manage the pain, and the one test that finally found the root cause How a lifestyle overhaul helped Rebecca avoid a lifetime of medication after a prediabetes warning in her thirties The self-awareness, self-acceptance, self-love formula Rebecca built to help people figure out what they actually need Why she calls herself "the Queen of Homework," and how to research a health decision your doctor won't have time to How essential oils helped Rebecca get off a nightly sleep medication, and how each oil ties to an emotional need Her "black year" as a stay-at-home mom, and the writing-class pamphlet that turned into a decade-long path to publication Timestamps (00:01) Welcome and guest intro: meet metabolism and lifestyle coach Rebecca Russell (02:10) From Harlequin romance novelist to competitive athlete (04:52) The rec ice hockey high, and the fibromyalgia diagnosis that followed (07:08) Watching family members struggle on the traditional medical path (09:04) The American Diabetes Society's shift toward prevention and reversal (11:39) The discogram: the one test nobody else had run (13:34) The statin Rebecca refused, and the thyroid issue that was the real cause (16:05) How to bring up holistic options without losing your traditional doctor (19:50) Why Rebecca calls herself "the Queen of Homework" (20:23) Essential oils, sleep, and getting off a nightly medication (24:35) The "black year": stay-at-home motherhood, guilt, and losing her sense of self (28:22) The writing-class pamphlet that led to a published novel ten years later (35:15) Boundaries, self-acceptance, and letting other people's opinions go About Rebecca Russell Rebecca Russell is a metabolism and lifestyle coach, author, and certified essential oil specialist who believes resilience begins with how we care for our bodies. After being told she was likely headed toward type 2 diabetes, she chose a different path and has spent more than 30 years embracing a holistic lifestyle to change the trajectory of her health, including recovering from a four-year battle with chronic pain that led to a fibromyalgia diagnosis. Learn more at Rebecca's website, where you can request a free wellness consultation. Favorite quotes "Listen to your body. Listen to that intuition." —Rebecca Russell "Root cause is so important." —Rebecca Russell "You have to know yourself well enough to know what you need to be happy." —Rebecca Russell Resources mentioned RebeccaRussell.com: Rebecca's website and free wellness consultation offer Rebecca's book, which includes companion journal pages for each chapter (available as a free download through Rebecca directly) The American Diabetes Society's preventative, low-carb approach to autoimmune conditions including diabetes Uncover Your Light, a nonfiction anthology on stories of hope and resilience featuring a chapter by Rebecca Related episodes How to Trust Your Intuition After Trauma: more on learning to listen to your own body and instincts again How Your Survival Brain Is Sabotaging Your Happiness: the science behind why we override our own signals How to Reclaim Your Energy When You're Burned Out: pairs with Rebecca's root-cause approach to chronic health struggles Subscribe & connect If this episode gave you something to sit with, follow Phoenix and Flame so you never miss an episode: all apps in one place, or jump straight to Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, or YouTube. And if it moved you, leave a review; it's the easiest way to help another listener find the show. Learn more about Phoenix and Flame, connect with Dana, and listen to more episodes here. Curious where your own boundaries stand? Take my free Work Boundaries Quiz: danaskaggs.com/quiz

My guest this week has a word for himself I'd never heard before: "entrepreholic." Over 39 years, Chris Shurian has built, operated, bought, broken, and resurrected companies in remodeling, construction, manufacturing, real estate development, foreign investment, hospitality, restaurants, and retail. He's also survived cancer and finished two Ironmans. And in 2008, when the economy crashed, he was so extended, so "all in, all in, all in," as he puts it, that he spent the next two years meeting with his banker once a week just to survive it. We talk about what it actually felt like to launch out on his own the first time (scary, but young enough that the stakes felt low), the mindset that got him through the 2008 collapse (he sold his boat and his Corvette for cash instead of losing them to the bank, because he'd paid cash for his toys in the first place), and why he now believes setting boundaries isn't a personal luxury for entrepreneurs, it's a core business strategy. Chris also shares the "work to live" question that reframed his whole career, and why four focused hours in his office can outperform someone else's fourteen. If you're building something and starting to feel like the business owns you instead of the other way around, Chris's story of setting his own hours from day one, and watching his business and his customers adapt to it, is worth the whole episode. Watch this episode on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2nsQRwz6r5I In this episode Why "life balance isn't a luxury, it's a core business strategy" for entrepreneurs The mindset shift that turned "scared" into "excited" for Chris during the 2008 financial collapse Why paying cash for the boat, the Corvette, and the cabin saved Chris's family when the bank came calling How setting one firm boundary (a standing day off, a closed office door) trains your business and your customers to respect it Why entrepreneurs who "jump ship" too early into a new opportunity often sabotage the one that's already working The life balance wheel exercise Chris still uses with his coaching clients today Timestamps (00:01) Welcome and guest intro: meet self-proclaimed "entrepreholic" Chris Shurian (01:58) The word "entrepreholic," and why it's different from "serial entrepreneur" (04:57) What launching out on his own for the first time actually felt like (06:54) The fence-building side hustle that turned into a contracting career (09:50) Bartering, visibility, and getting your work seen (13:11) Building a remodeling empire, and the year everything grew too fast (14:59) Neuroplasticity: reframing "scared" as "excited" (17:23) The 2008 crash: two years of weekly meetings with the banker (18:09) Why paying cash for the boat and the Corvette saved the family (20:08) Imposter syndrome as a coach, and the value of hard-won experience (24:30) Where Chris lost his own boundaries: jumping ship on the main business too early (28:20) "Do you live to work, or do you work to live?" (33:50) Where to find Chris and his coaching About Chris Shurian Chris Shurian is a self-proclaimed "entrepreholic" who has spent 39 years building, operating, breaking, and resurrecting companies in remodeling, construction, manufacturing, real estate development, foreign investment, hospitality, restaurants, and retail. In his own words: "I've won big, lost big, survived cancer, finished two Ironmans, and I still show up with the enthusiasm of a guy launching his very first venture." He now coaches business owners and entrepreneurs, drawing on decades of building, losing, and rebuilding. Learn more at Chris's website, or connect with him on LinkedIn. Favorite quotes "I've won big, lost big, survived cancer, finished two Ironmans, and I still show up with the enthusiasm of a guy launching his very first venture." —Chris Shurian "I am absolutely a work to live kind of guy." —Chris Shurian "I can get more done in four hours in my office than some people get done in two or three days." —Chris Shurian Resources mentioned BootstrapsAndBattleScars.com: Chris's platform, coaching, and podcast Chris Shurian on LinkedIn The life balance wheel, an exercise Chris uses with coaching clients to spot where their life is out of balance Related episodes Setting Boundaries for Well-Being and Success: more on why boundaries drive success instead of limiting it Entrepreneurial Success: Habits of a Maverick: another entrepreneur's take on the habits that make the long game possible Vision and Heart: One Entrepreneur's Journey: another founder's road through building, losing, and rebuilding Subscribe & connect If this episode gave you something to sit with, follow Phoenix and Flame so you never miss an episode: all apps in one place, or jump straight to Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, or YouTube. And if it moved you, leave a review; it's the easiest way to help another listener find the show. Learn more about Phoenix and Flame, connect with Dana, and listen to more episodes here. Curious where your own boundaries stand? Take my free Work Boundaries Quiz: danaskaggs.com/quiz

Picture a hand-written sign taped to a bus stop in Japan: "I'm 87, I don't have a family. Would some family take me?" No one answered. He died a couple of months later. That story, from my guest this week, is the starkest snapshot I've ever heard of what loneliness researcher Dr. Anthony Silard calls a global epidemic, and the twist is who it's hitting hardest: not the oldest of us, but the youngest. Anthony is a professor of Leadership and Organizational Psychology and an internationally recognized authority on relationships, emotional intelligence, and personal transformation, and he's the author of the new book Love and Suffering: Break the Emotional Chains that Prevent You from Experiencing Love. We get into the real difference between loneliness (which he calls the trash) and solitude (the treasure), his four-plateau model for moving toward love, and why parents need to be their kid's "emotion elevator" instead of handing over a screen every time a feeling gets hard. Anthony also makes the case, backed by his own research, for ditching "forgive and forget" for good: forgiveness is something you do for yourself, trust is something you decide about the relationship, and they are not the same choice. If you've ever wondered whether you're lonely or just alone, or you've been calling resentment "forgiveness" without realizing it, this conversation hands you the language for both. Watch this episode on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nkiYyQ_Nj-U In this episode Why today's loneliest generation isn't the oldest, it's the youngest, and what's driving it The real difference between loneliness (trash) and solitude (treasure), and how to move toward the second Why "forgive and forget" is bad advice, and what to do instead: forgive and remember, lightly The difference between forgiveness (for you) and trust (for the relationship), and why you can have one without the other What it means to be your child's "emotion elevator," and what happens when that job gets outsourced to a screen Why comparing yourself to everyone else on your bus is quietly making loneliness worse Timestamps (00:01) Welcome and guest intro: meet Dr. Anthony Silard, author of Love and Suffering (01:49) Why Anthony studies loneliness: his own early experience with it (03:14) The exponential rise in loneliness since the first iPhone (06:15) The loneliness epidemic by the numbers: the Cigna study, the UK's minister for loneliness, and the 87-year-old's sign (09:34) Loneliness vs. solitude: trash and treasure (12:14) Why today's loneliest generation is the youngest, not the oldest (16:58) Being your child's "emotion elevator," and the conversational duet (23:01) The decline of empathy, and the truth about the "self-absorption" myth (27:30) Why "forgive and forget" is bad advice (28:27) Forgiveness vs. trust: two different decisions (31:14) Where to find Anthony and his free books About Dr. Anthony Silard Dr. Anthony Silard is a professor of Leadership and Organizational Psychology and an internationally recognized authority in relationships, leadership, emotional intelligence, relational healing, and personal transformation. He earned his doctorate at IESE Business School in Barcelona and is one of the two most-published researchers on loneliness in organizations, alongside Sarah Wright in New Zealand. He's the author of Love and Suffering: Break the Emotional Chains that Prevent You from Experiencing Love (2025) and the previous book Screened In: The Art of Living Free in the Digital Age, and he coaches CEOs and senior leaders at companies including Toyota, Apple, Google, and Boeing. Learn more at Anthony's website, or grab his two free books, "The Myth of Happiness" and "The Myth of Friendship." Favorite quotes "Loneliness is a negative distressing emotion associated with being alone. Solitude is a positive strengthening emotion associated with being alone." —Dr. Anthony Silard "Resentment is what you feel while the other person's out dancing." —Dr. Anthony Silard "Trust is necessary for relationship development." —Dr. Anthony Silard Resources mentioned Love and Suffering: Break the Emotional Chains that Prevent You from Experiencing Love, Anthony's book on his four-plateau "love progression model" Screened In: The Art of Living Free in the Digital Age, Anthony's previous book on screens and relationships Two free books: "The Myth of Happiness" and "The Myth of Friendship," available at TheArtOfLivingFree.org The Cigna loneliness study (2018 and 2020) cited on the rise in adult American loneliness Related episodes Beyond Forgive and Forget: The Real Secret to Letting Go: a deeper dive into exactly the forgiveness-vs-trust distinction Anthony draws in this episode Curiosity: The Bridge to Connection: more on what it actually takes to move from isolation to real connection Vulnerability, Authenticity, and Connection: An Interview with Coach Lee Hopkins: another conversation on what genuine connection requires Subscribe & connect If this episode gave you something to sit with, follow Phoenix and Flame so you never miss an episode: all apps in one place, or jump straight to Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, or YouTube. And if it moved you, leave a review; it's the easiest way to help another listener find the show. Learn more about Phoenix and Flame, connect with Dana, and listen to more episodes here. Curious where your own boundaries stand? Take my free Work Boundaries Quiz: danaskaggs.com/quiz

Picture a high school track meet: a sixteen-pound shot put thrown the wrong direction, a burst spleen, three weeks in a hospital bed. That's how my guest this week learned, at sixteen or seventeen, that avoiding failure is exactly what guarantees it. Mark DeCarlo woke up after three days unconscious to a doctor telling him ten more minutes and he'd have been dead, and he's spent every day since orienting his choices around one question: will this make me more happy or less happy? Mark is an Emmy award-winning comedian, bestselling author, and in-demand corporate speaker and leadership trainer (also, if you had a kid in the 2000s, the voice of Hugh Neutron). We get into why he believes fear is always and only self-destructive, never useful once you're past outrunning actual predators, and why failing on purpose, over and over, is the only way to find out what you actually like. Mark also walks through the "ten times" exercise for identifying your own happiness, and calls out the biggest myth keeping high performers stuck: that you have to suffer now to be happy later. If you're one of my high performers white-knuckling through burnout because you think the money has to come first, this one's for you. Mark's simple two-bucket framework for burnout, and his blunt reminder that no one's getting out of this alive, might be exactly the permission slip you need to stop postponing your own happiness. Watch this episode on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8tc9hy5ItJ4 In this episode Why avoiding failure is what actually guarantees it, and how a near-death shot-put accident taught Mark to use happiness as his life's "North Star" Why fear is always and only self-destructive, and the difference between fear and healthy caution The "ten times" exercise for finding out what actually makes you happy, not what you think should Why working harder now to be happy "later" is backwards, and what to do instead How losing 80 pounds by telling everyone his goal, instead of hiding it, taught Mark the power of public accountability The two buckets of burnout, and what to do about each one Timestamps (00:01) Welcome and guest intro: meet Emmy-winning comedian Mark DeCarlo (01:16) The near-death shot-put accident that reoriented Mark's whole life (03:06) Why time, not money, is the resource you can't get back (04:30) Try everything: finding what you like by crossing off what you don't (06:19) Fear vs. caution, and why fear is always self-destructive (07:57) Thomas Edison, failure, and the scientific method for finding happiness (09:47) Chaos, entropy, and why happiness has to come before the money (16:02) How do you actually know if you're happy? Spotting the dopamine trap (19:34) Losing 80 pounds: the power of telling everyone your goal (21:30) "If you don't fail, you're not pushing hard enough" (24:15) Doing it scared: fear doesn't get the final vote (31:02) The two buckets of burnout, and what to do about each one (35:12) Where to find Mark and his work About Mark DeCarlo Mark DeCarlo is an Emmy award-winning comedian, bestselling author, and in-demand corporate speaker and leadership trainer. He's also the voice of Hugh Neutron on Nickelodeon's Jimmy Neutron and a former travel show host. After a near-death accident in high school, he built his career and his life around a single question: does this choice make me more happy or less happy? Learn more at Mark's website, or follow him on Instagram. Favorite quotes "Fear is only and always self-destructive." —Mark DeCarlo "And if you don't fail, you're not pushing hard enough." —Mark DeCarlo "No one's getting out of this alive." —Mark DeCarlo Resources mentioned MarkDeCarloSpeaker.com: Mark's website Mark DeCarlo TV on Instagram: Mark's travel content and updates Related episodes The Fear Trap: more on why fear keeps us stuck, and how to stop letting it drive the car How Your Survival Brain Is Sabotaging Your Happiness: the science behind why chasing happiness feels so much harder than it should How to Spot Burnout Before It's Too Late: pairs with Mark's two-bucket burnout framework from this episode Subscribe & connect If this episode gave you something to sit with, follow Phoenix and Flame so you never miss an episode: all apps in one place, or jump straight to Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, or YouTube. And if it moved you, leave a review; it's the easiest way to help another listener find the show. Learn more about Phoenix and Flame, connect with Dana, and listen to more episodes here. Curious where your own boundaries stand? Take my free Work Boundaries Quiz: danaskaggs.com/quiz

Would your young adult be able to survive without you? That's the question my guest Joanna Lilley says every parent should be able to answer, and if your gut response is "no" or "I don't know," she's got thoughts. Joanna is a therapeutic consultant who works exclusively with what she calls "emerging adults," people 18 and up who are unraveling in college or not thriving in adulthood, and after years in the field she's convinced young adults are more stuck than ever: not because they're lazy, but because they're paralyzed by too many options and too little structure. Joanna's practice, Lilley Consulting, has helped young adults find mental health, substance use, and wellness resources since 2016. We get into why "too many choices" can freeze someone as badly as too few, the difference between a real boundary and plain distress intolerance, and her blunt advice for parents: don't let fear keep you from holding one, and don't try to be your own kid's therapist. Whether you're the parent lying awake wondering if you're helping or enabling, or the 20-something wondering why "adulting" feels impossible, Joanna's got a roadmap that doesn't require pretending anyone has all the answers. Watch this episode on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JHXcxINrWCM In this episode Why young adults are more stuck than ever, and how "too many options" can paralyze decision-making more than too few The question Joanna says every parent should be able to answer: would your young adult survive without you? Why "the path to hell is paved with good intentions" when parents try to be their kid's therapist or coach The real difference between a boundary and plain distress intolerance How to build structure and forward momentum for a young adult who skips (or leaves) college Practical guardrails for gaming, codependent parenting, and job-hopping, without the shame spiral Timestamps (00:02) Welcome and introducing therapeutic consultant Joanna Lilley (01:48) Why Joanna went back to grad school, and the assistantship that made it possible (04:54) Why she chose to work exclusively with "emerging adults" (08:24) What young adults are actually struggling with right now (10:11) Why more options can create more stuckness, not less (12:35) The dark question: would your young adult survive without you? (17:06) Holding a boundary without letting fear drive your parenting (22:40) Building structure and momentum for a young adult who skips college (28:01) Gaming, codependent parenting, and why the average young adult may have nine careers (34:07) The difference between a real boundary and distress intolerance (41:38) Where to find Joanna, her blog, and her podcast, Success Is Subjective About Joanna Lilley Joanna Lilley is a therapeutic consultant and founder of Lilley Consulting, which since 2016 has helped young adults 18-plus find mental health, substance use, and wellness resources. She dedicates herself to working solely with emerging adults who unravel in college or aren't thriving in adulthood, and hosts her own podcast, Success Is Subjective. Learn more, read her blog, and find her podcast at LilleyConsulting.com, or connect with her on LinkedIn. Favorite quotes "Would your young adult be able to survive without you?" —Joanna Lilley "The path to hell is paved with good intentions." —Joanna Lilley, on parents trying to be their own kid's therapist "It's okay to not know at 18 what you're gonna do the rest of your life, because nobody did." —Joanna Lilley Resources mentioned LilleyConsulting.com: Joanna's site, blog, and consulting practice for young adults and families Success Is Subjective, Joanna's own podcast Joanna Lilley on LinkedIn Related episodes How to Overcome Anxiety and Network with Confidence: More support for young adults navigating the anxiety Joanna describes around careers and next steps. How Your Survival Brain is Sabotaging Your Happiness: A deeper look at why the brain freezes up when facing too many choices. Boundaries - Why Can't I Set Them?: More on the real difference between a boundary and avoidance, the distinction Joanna draws here. Subscribe & connect If this episode gave you something to sit with, follow Phoenix and Flame so you never miss an episode: all apps in one place, or jump straight to Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, or YouTube. And if it moved you, leave a review; it's the easiest way to help another listener find the show. Learn more about Phoenix and Flame, connect with Dana, and listen to more episodes here. Curious where your own boundaries stand? Take my free Work Boundaries Quiz: danaskaggs.com/quiz

Picture coming home to a business card tucked into your door jamb. It says "coroner's unit, robbery unit," with a handwritten note: call me please. That's how my guest Mandi Pratt found out, a year after leaving an abusive marriage, that the FBI had been hunting her ex-husband for six to nine months, for a string of bank robberies. If you've ever wondered how to trust your intuition after trauma, when your own mind has been trained to doubt itself, this is the episode that shows you how, from someone whose story was on the news twice. Mandi transformed that plot twist into a framework for self-leadership and resilience, and now helps individuals and organizations understand how stress and survival responses affect decision-making, boundaries, and wellbeing. We get into what "survival mode" actually looks like when you're a single mom of a toddler with a criminal case unfolding around you, why validation (not advice) is what actually cuts the risk of complex PTSD, and Mandi's simple "happy list," a menu of go-to things that help her regulate when she can't think straight enough to help herself. Twenty years out, Mandi is remarried, her son is grown, and she's still learning what it means for a nervous system to finally feel safe enough to rest. Watch this episode on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HDUahmDXqOU In this episode How to trust your intuition after trauma, starting with Mandi's first step: learning to actually pause What "survival mode" really looks like when you're a single parent with a criminal case unfolding around you Why validation, not advice, is what actually cuts the risk of complex PTSD (and what it sounds like) How to vet the people you lean on after abuse, and why "are you sure? he seems so nice" does real damage Mandi's "happy list": a pre-made menu of things that help, for the days you can't think straight enough to choose Why your body can fall apart once it finally feels safe, and why that's not a setback Timestamps (00:01) Welcome and introducing self-leadership expert Mandi Pratt (01:52) The FBI business card in the door jamb (03:24) Learning her ex had been robbing banks for months (07:19) Survival mode as a single mom: no time for emotional processing (08:21) Institutional betrayal, and why the resources just weren't there yet (11:15) Leaning on pets, movement, and time outside when talk therapy wasn't enough (12:36) Why intuition alarm bells get rationalized away, especially for women (15:29) The patterning that keeps trauma survivors from saying no (18:03) Why validation alone cuts complex PTSD risk by three times (21:11) The pile of ash: finding the "light at the end of the tunnel" one micro-step at a time (25:19) Moving from fight-or-flight, and why it took 20 years, not 20 days (29:14) The "happy list": Mandi's go-to menu for regulating on the hard days (31:41) Where to find Mandi, her intuition quiz, and her free five-day challenge About Mandi Pratt Mandi Pratt is a speaker and self-leadership expert who turned a life-shattering crisis, leaving an abusive marriage only to learn her ex-husband was wanted by the FBI for bank robbery, into a framework for helping individuals and organizations move from fight-or-flight into clarity, confidence, and inner stability. Take her free intuition quiz at womenawareandprepared.com/quiz, or learn more at mandipratt.com. She's also on Instagram as "Women Aware and Prepared" and on LinkedIn under her own name. Favorite quotes "Even with unhealthy relationships, a lot of times we will get those intuition alarm bells going off. But a lot of times we rationalize it." —Mandi Pratt "You don't have to keep living that way. You don't have to keep hustle, hustle, hustle. Your nervous system can't take that anymore." —Mandi Pratt "If you just validate, that sounds so hard, and I am so sorry that you're going through that. I hear you." —Mandi Pratt, on what actually helps someone in crisis Resources mentioned Mandi's free intuition quiz, plus a five-day challenge to strengthen your intuition after taking it MandiPratt.com: Mandi's site Mandi on Instagram and LinkedIn as "Women Aware and Prepared" / Mandi Pratt Related episodes The Hidden Tactics Narcissists Use to Control You: More on the post-separation abuse and manipulation patterns Mandi navigated with her ex. Surviving Gaslighters and Manipulators: A companion look at rebuilding trust in your own perception after abuse. How Unresolved Trauma Is Ruling Your Life: More on why the body keeps score long after the danger has passed, as Mandi describes. Subscribe & connect If this episode gave you something to sit with, follow Phoenix and Flame so you never miss an episode: all apps in one place, or jump straight to Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, or YouTube. And if it moved you, leave a review; it's the easiest way to help another listener find the show. Learn more about Phoenix and Flame, connect with Dana, and listen to more episodes here. Curious where your own boundaries stand? Take my free Work Boundaries Quiz: danaskaggs.com/quiz