
Advertise on podcast: Money 4 Nothing
Rating
5from
This podcast has
113 episodes
Language
EnglishPublisher
Money 4 NothingExplicit
No
Date created
2020/05/19
Latest episode
2026/01/27
Average duration
64 min.
Release period
26 days
Description
A podcast on music and capitalism. Dropped bi-weekly. money4nothing.substack.com
Unlock Money 4 Nothing podcast Email contact info,
Listeners & Audience details
Email contact information
Direct podcast contact details

Listeners
Audience numbers & engagement insights

Audience details
Podcast Insights

Podcast episodes
Check latest episodes from Money 4 Nothing podcast
WTF is Tidal + Musk Vs. The Publishers
2026/01/27
A two topic special for you this week. First—we explore the strangely under-reported story that Elon Musk is suing…basically the entirety of music publishing. The reason? They (gasp!) want him to either pay for music on X or, you know, stop allowing it. The mechanics are a lot weirder, though. We briefly run through consent decrees, blanket licensing, and Silicon Valley’s vision for intellectual property.
Then: the increased tumult around Spotify has seen many looking for an alternate streaming platform, with Tidal often touted as a more ethical (and higher audio quality) alternative. But…what’s Tidal’s deal, actually? And what can it tell us about the history—and future—of streaming? We talk the bizarre, star-studded, Jay-Z-led launch, Cash-App Takeovers, super-shady pro-Kanye stream inflation, and mission-pivoting techno-babble. Come for a shadow history of music in tech. Stay for the time that Frank Ocean built a staircase to nowhere.
Get full access to Money 4 Nothing at money4nothing.substack.com/subscribe
New Year, Same Us
2026/01/08
To ring in the new year, Sam and Saxon pull out both their wayback machine AND their increasingly scuffed-up crystal ball to think through some of the biggest trends from the last year—and to make some predictions about what might be coming in 2026. Was this the year when Spotify finally lost its grip on the PMC intelligentsia? Will Tik Tok’s potential American spinoff release a flood of incriminating music-biz evidence? And what’s up with…rock music out pacing Latin and Country lately? Will anyone write an anthem about work sucking again? Come to hear us tell you how we were right. Stay (and take notes) so you can tell us where we get things wrong.
(and please….excuse the hiss of our radiators. We live in cold places.)
Get full access to Money 4 Nothing at money4nothing.substack.com/subscribe
AI Music Onslaught
2025/12/17
Well…it’s here folks. From the back roads of the digital countryside to the clubs of London, AI music has finally hit the charts. And the major labels, which had spent much of the last few years promising that they would do everything in their power to protect their artists’ rights and intellectual property and humanity have…signed deals with the major AI companies behind it?
We don’t want to say we told you so but…well…we did. To get a handle on what’s been happening, we consider a bevy of Very Threatening Lawsuits, talk through some recent lawsuit-squashing deals, and unpick the heavy-handed playbook that Universal, Sony, and Warner are running on yet another pack of VC-backed tech bros. Nice generative AI company you got there. Shame if anyone were to accuse it of copyright infringement.
But beyond the revenue streams, cultural influence, and never-to-be-officially-discussed buckets of settlement cash that these tactics promise, the latest developments also reveal hints of what the majors see as the future of AI music: A Walled Garden of user-generated content? A licensing bonanza? A cudgel against Spotify? A slop halo? (Don’t worry—we’ll explain that last one). Come for the rise of the musical replicants and the (potential) fall of the digital squatters. Stay for what all of this might do to a new generation of listeners.
Get full access to Money 4 Nothing at money4nothing.substack.com/subscribe
RetroConversion Freakout Feat. Travis Wagner
2025/11/11
The Internet, as you know, is a vast and strange place, chock full of subcultures doing all sorts of things. And some of them are…well…curating Vine compilations, putting them onto VHS, carefully crafting distinctive packaging (complete with colored tapes!) and distributing the resulting “art pieces” via Etsy. Just hypothetically speaking, of course. But why would anyone want to do this? Why would anyone want to buy this? And what does the fact that, despite its surface weirdness, the resulting object probably makes a certain amount of aesthetic sense to you…say about our relationship to the media (and the entire digital landscape) in the contemporary moment?
To learn more about this wild, wild world, we talk with Travis Wagner, an assistant professor in the School of Information Sciences at Urbana-Champaign, whose latest research has focused on the “retroconversion” scene in all its tape-dubbing glory. Does 2010s horror deserve VHS-era static? What are the deep urges beneath nostalgia for physical media? Was the ‘90s really the last good time in American culture? Is the ownership of magnetic tape really an act of rebellion against the digital automation of an algorithmically-driven, surveillance capital world? Bust out your Walkman, hit the play button and decide for yourself.
Get full access to Money 4 Nothing at money4nothing.substack.com/subscribe
Spotify's Billions Club and the Future of Criticism
2025/10/03
In the wilds of music streaming lurk eldritch terrors—perhaps few more strange, preposterous, and sanity-shattering than “the Spotify Billions Club,” a constantly updated list of tracks that have well and truly hit the big time. We pierce the post-temporal, post Tik-Tok veil and ask…what in the world is going on here? What are some of these bands? How did they get here? And what can the failure of any one narrative to contain them all tell us about how we understand music?
But this is all just a springboard to try and make sense of the atemporal onslaught of content that characterizes our contemporary moment and the lack of critical engagement with what we are experiencing. This leads us to Kelefa Sanneh’s recent article for the New Yorker which made some major waves by asking “when did music critics get nice?” Beyond poptimism and soft payola, we think the answer lies in how Spotify works and reflects greater trends in popular culture, and how a potential return to a sharper journalistic form will only hold if this is all taken into account. We go long and deep on this one, folks. How else are we going to shake off the cynicism in an attempt to envision a genuinely idealistic vision of what criticism could do.
Money 4 Nothing is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support our work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber.
Get full access to Money 4 Nothing at money4nothing.substack.com/subscribe
SkyDunce: Billionaires Vs. The Media
2025/09/08
There’s been a conspicuous uptick in the past decade of billionaires buying up media companies. Elon and Twitter. Bezos and the Washington Post. Laurene Powell Jobs and The Atlantic. Forbes, Fortune, LA Times and a slew of other major newspapers are all now controlled by…very rich folks who didn’t make their money in media. But why? We thought print (and honestly, anything NOT a born digital streaming service) was…if not dead, than dying? It’s almost as if these billionaires see more value in these media platforms than the market. It certainly it has nothing to do with the continual ability of these media companies to shape narratives, ideologies and stories reifying our ever increasing death drive towards a modern oligarchy that full aligns with the billionaire class. (Coughs)
And then, the latest nail in the 20th-century-media-coffin: The sale of Paramount (which also includes CBS, MTV, Comedy Central and many others) to Skydance Media. You might be asking yourself “Who?” But don’t worry—Skydance, owned by David Ellison, son of billionaire and Oracle founder Larry Ellison, is the little media shop that could...raise billions via private equity and family funds.
To try and suss out the political, economic, and cultural stakes of this new era, Sam and Saxon set their focus on Paramount and ask: What in the literal f*%k is going on? How is a nepo baby movie studio buying out a major media legacy brand like Paramount and more importantly: Why? And how does this all relate to a Trump quid pro quo, Colbert getting canceled and David Ellison’s horrific vision of a utopic world where a surveillance state keeps the world a more morally virtuous place?
Come for theorizing of major music labels as the plural bipartisan black sheep of billionaire media industries. Stay for our overuse of the word barbarity because Sad Adorno.
Get full access to Money 4 Nothing at money4nothing.substack.com/subscribe
What is the Value of Music?
2025/08/12
What is the value of music? We often think of this question in economic terms, but it doesn’t always have to do with money. After all, there’s a value difference between someone strumming a guitar at home, playing in a band, or trying to land a major label deal in that band. Each has its own kind of “value,” but these values are not the same.
Parsing out these different kinds of values is the focus of Making Value: Music, Capital and the Social, a recent book by our guest, Timothy D. Taylor, Professor of Ethnomusicology at UCLA. In the book, Taylor takes a novel approach, using anthropological value theory to examine how people’s ideas about value shape both the production and consumption of music while theorizing on the relationship between music’s economic and noneconomic forms. The result is a more a more comprehensive and complicated look at life and music under capitalism, one in which supposedly non-commodified, utopian spaces outside the market turn out to be far messier and more entangled within its overarching structures that we’d often like to admit.
Sam and Taylor dive deep into this topic, tracing threads from Echo Park’s indie scene of the 2010s to Franz Liszt’s 19th-century star power to broad conceptions of gift-giving through the work of Marcel Mauss.
Get full access to Money 4 Nothing at money4nothing.substack.com/subscribe
No Ethical Music Streaming in a Streaming World
2025/07/16
Daniel Ek, overlord of Spotify, recently lead an investment round of $600+ for a private German defense tech company. Despite Ek having invested in this kind of military technology since 2021, it seems to have suddenly reached everyone’s attention. As a result, lovable indie weirdos Deerhoof are leading Ek’s recent round of bad press with claims that they’ll be pulling their music off Spotify because they don’t support war, drones, American imperialism, A.I. and a number of other things detailed in multiple text-only posts on Instagram (whose parent company Meta definitely doesn’t invest in anything terrible that’s also accelerating the rise of T-1000s coming soon to a battlefield near you.)
Ironic joking aside, it’s an interesting and unique case of music intersecting with geopolitics which feels ….rare? After all, since the commodification of music, have fans ever faced so many ethical quandaries? And how to even begin dissecting Ek’s investment under the shadow of Trump demanding Europe start footing more of their defense bill? And what difference would getting off Spotify actually make in the world (none), but maybe we should do it anyways (sure)?
Sam and Saxon bring out that ole dog and pony show of ethical consumerism and consider that maybe those nice music listeners who are just trying to do right in a wrong world should strain to rethink where they locate politics.
In the end, Sam gets hopeful, Saxon remains skeptic and both consider the real potentials of a federated streaming service that includes both Cyndi Lauper and Sun City Girls …plus blockchain.
Money4Nothing is a podcast and newsletter on music and capitalism produced solely by Sam Backer and Saxon Baird. If you dig what we do, consider a (very cheap) subscription.
Get full access to Money 4 Nothing at money4nothing.substack.com/subscribe
Hardcore Superstars and a Sly-less Future
2025/06/18
This past week saw the passing of legendary musicians Sly Stone and Brian Wilson at the (relatively) ripe age of 82. While both men had grappled with the challenges of fame and mental health over their long careers, their deaths weren’t the result of these struggles—but rather the inevitable march of time. And they aren’t alone. The stars of the 60s and 70s are all slowing down: Aerosmith, Kiss, Billy Joel, Elton John…the list of musical pillars hanging up the spandex and rhinestones suggests the true end of an era. But what does our inevitable future look like as we come to what is beginning to feel like the final close of a generation? We think through the economic implications, but settle on the totemic possibilities. When did we last agree on anything the way we agreed on the greatness of Sly and Brian? And what will mass culture look like in the wake of those shared touchstones?
In the second-half, an alternate possibility is demonstrated by the (former?) hardcore (rock?) superstars-in-training Turnstile, who just released their long-awaited 5th album—but not before playing an absolutely massive free show in Sam’s beloved Wyman Park Dell in Baltimore. This is a band you either are sick of hearing about or have literally never come across—a dichotomy that reflects our contemporary musical landscape…particularly in comparison with the era of the ‘60s and ‘70s. We try and wrap our head around the phenomenon, figuring what it means to be a “big” band in 2025, who cares about whether or not anyone is a “sellout,” and….if this music makes literally any sense to us. Come for the breakdowns. Stay for the Bluenotes.
Money4Nothing is a podcast and newsletter on music and capitalism produced solely by Sam Backer and Saxon Baird. If you dig what we do, consider a (very cheap) subscription.
Get full access to Money 4 Nothing at money4nothing.substack.com/subscribe
Welcome To The Machine (but with more succulents) Feat. Toby Bennett
2025/05/28
On our latest episode, Sam and Toby Bennett talk about how the major labels have transformed themselves in the digital era. But, while the UMG, Warner, and Sony are continent-spanning IP behemoths, they are also made of people: people with ideas about themselves, and the work they do, and the industry they do it in. And if the industry was changing between, say, 2000 and 2010, then the people within it were too—a shift in ideology and outlook absolutely integral to the contemporary culture industry.
Understanding this relationship between large-scale business practices and the intimate social transformations that both reflected AND caused them is the subject of the fantastic new book, “Corporate Life in the Digital Music Industry: Remaking the Major Label from the Inside Out” by Toby Bennett. An ethnographic analysis of bleary-eyed mornings and iPod diplomacy, it sheds light on what was going on inside the major label machine as it struggled to navigate the streaming revolution—and began to repaint itself in millennial pink. Sam and Toby Bennett discuss the social geography of major-label London, the complex hierarchies of office work, and the tightrope debates over what it means to “respect” pop. Also, don’t miss the lightly conspiratorial discussion of habitus-forming corporate education that will change the way you look at those “creative economy” college courses forever.
Get full access to Money 4 Nothing at money4nothing.substack.com/subscribe
How Tariffs Could Impact Music
2025/04/25
As you might have noticed, the global economic system has hit a bit of a…snag—namely, the United States upending almost 80 years of foreign policy with little-to-no clarity on process, structure, or medium-term aims. That’s right, baby…We’re talkin' tariffs! Now, some of the impacts are, to be honest, pretty straightforward: Those Mexican strats? Those Roland 808s? Those T-Shirts at the merch table? Tariffed!
But, in typical Money 4 Nothing fashion, we look past the headlines and try to think through the broader implications of the New World Order. What could a recession do to an industry that’s already seeing a slowdown in streaming growth? How might a stock market crash impact the balance of power between tech firms and “counter cyclical” major labels? Will travel bans hit superfans? And, perhaps most importantly—just how much of our contemporary culture industry is based on the world’s century-long embrace of American identity? Come for a quick tour through “recession pop.” Stay for our totally justified gloating about predicting, not ALL of this, but definitely a LOT of this.
Money4Nothing is a podcast and newsletter on music and capitalism produced solely by Sam Backer and Saxon Baird. If you dig what we do, consider a (very cheap) subscription.
Get full access to Money 4 Nothing at money4nothing.substack.com/subscribe
Every Band is a Foreign Country (With Franz Nicolay)
2025/03/28
What is a band? Think about it for a second, and it becomes less obvious. What you see is a couple of people on stage rocking out. But think about it more and it gets more complex. Actually, bands really aren’t really like anything else—part business, part social club, part artistic partnership, part job…operating at the interstitial zone between disciplined employment and liberatory self-expression. This strange, cobbled-together structure—and the conflicts, hierarchies, pleasures, and intimacies it creates—is at the heart of “Band People: Life and Work in Popular Music,” a revelatory new book from Franz Nicolay (who…has been in one or two bands himself). To learn more, we dig into everything from the complexity of (musical) democracy to the political economy of expression—not to mention how local unions might be the answer, the dangerous effects of Romanticism, and how there’s never a escape from the problem of power.
Money4Nothing is a podcast and newsletter on music and capitalism produced solely by Sam Backer and Saxon Baird. If you dig what we do, consider a (very cheap) subscription.
Get full access to Money 4 Nothing at money4nothing.substack.com/subscribe
Digital Distribution and the Ideology of Being Indy
2025/03/12
Late last year, Universal Music shelled out 775 million dollars to snap up Downtown Music, a “global music company” that manages “over 50 million music assets”. Perhaps famously, Downtown owns Cd Baby—a digital distributor that, along with peers like Tunecore and Distrokid, has become central to the infrastructure of the streaming economy. These companies enable artists to upload their music to platforms like Spotify, and their influence has grown alongside the ever-increasing flood of “independent” artists bypassing the label system to share their music directly with the people.
But…is this kind of market-based independence really all it’s cracked up to be? Or is it another example of music serving as a microcosm for the broader structures of capitalism. And if so—what are the potential implications of the biggest of all majors stepping into the distribution fray? To try and understand it all, Saxon and Sam dive into the history of distributors, from their decades schlepping vinyl to their more recent focus on herding ones-and-zeros. We talk streaming 1.0 vs. streaming 2.0, debate the economic purpose of community, and fret about the vast tubes of data that lead directly to Lucian Grange’s voracious maw. What, after all, could possibly go wrong?
Listen to “Digital Distribution and the Ideology of Being Indy” wherever you get your podcasts.
Money4Nothing is a podcast and newsletter on music and capitalism produced solely by Sam Backer and Saxon Baird. If you dig what we do, consider a (very cheap) subscription.
Get full access to Money 4 Nothing at money4nothing.substack.com/subscribe
Spotify Culture (Featuring Liz Pelly + David Turner)
2025/02/19
This week? Heavy Hitters. As you may (or may not) have heard, journalist/Daniel Ek tormenter/friend-of-the-pod Liz Pelly is making waves with her wonderful new book “Mood Machine: The Rise of Spotify and the Costs of the Perfect Playlist.” It’s easily the best thing yet written about the company at the center of modern music, insightfully reconstructing how Spotify’s shifting interests and policies have remade how we listen, who we listen to, and what they get paid.
To get a deeper perspective on both the book and the histories it emerges from, we also called up David Turner—of the late (lamented) Penny Fractions—pulling him out of retirement for one last big music + capitalism score. Together Liz, David, and Sam dive into everything from the economics of ghost artists and the aesthetics of vibes-based listening to the intentional destruction of cultural context in the streaming age. It’s a conversation that helps clarify the singularity of Spotify culture—and allows us to better detach its operations from the meaning of digital music. Come for the playlists. Stay for what they’ve done to you.
Buy Liz Pelly's book "Mood Machine"
Subscribe to our Newsletter!
Get full access to Money 4 Nothing at money4nothing.substack.com/subscribe
"Homeboy Need a Subpoena": Drake Sues UMG
2025/02/04
Look. Times are dark. So this week, we decided to tackle a somewhat lighter topic and look into Drake’s remarkably tone-deaf lawsuit against Universal Music Group—the label to which both he and (beef opponent) Kendrick Lamar are signed. In essence, Drake alleges that UMG used all their influence to make Kendrick’s Grammy-winning diss track “Not Like Us” a viral mega-hit. Which, like…yeah. Of course they did. They are in the business of producing viral mega-hits.
While the context of the lawsuit—namely, multiple violent attacks on Drake’s house—is quite serious, it’s hard not to find the whole thing ridiculous. After over a decade of industry machinations, Aubrey really had the nerve to sue UMG for…hurting his feelings? [Yes, it’s actually for defamation of character, but in the court of public opinion, those two are pretty much synonymous] Despite this, the actual content of the legal filing is fascinating—offering readers a guided tour of exactly what UMG is doing out there, hosted by someone who really knows how the sausage gets made. Payola? Selective copyright enforcement? Contract negotiation hardball? You betcha. THEN: Saxon and Sam get a little loose and take a jog through the Grammys. Album Of The Year? Sure. But also…who did you have for Immersive Audio?
Subscribe to our Newsletter!
Get full access to Money 4 Nothing at money4nothing.substack.com/subscribe
Podcast reviews
Read Money 4 Nothing podcast reviews
Taylor Fixed Rhythms 2022/10/02
So good!
I run a small independent electronic music label, and the attention Sam and Saxon pay to the financial side, something not every music fan may obsess ...
LibertyOrDeathToday 2022/09/29
Raising the Right Questions
I just stumbled on this podcast by searching for Damon Krukowski—I like his writing, and was curious to see if he’d been interviewed about the music i...
abstinancydrew 2022/03/16
Big return on investment
Money for nothing made my music biz stock skyrocket
Prof Simon 2021/08/31
A peek
A peek under the hood of the culture that shapes us. We really are enjoying the golden age of podcasting with shows like this.
Big Cat from BK 2021/06/23
Awesome pod!! A must for music nerds
This is a real gem! I love hearing the guys intricately navigate through a unique landscape of topics related to the music biz. So many nooks and cran...
mama_neta 2021/06/04
Deep and approachable
Love the fresh perspectives on music and the industry. Great guests!
Big Adult Youth 2021/05/06
Best music podcast
One of the most cleared music shows
GR8_TASTE 2021/04/09
🎶🏛🔨
my favorite podcast about music and capitalism
redandblack13 2021/01/27
Super engaging deep dives on the music industry
Engaging and approachable deep dives into the music industry, tying together how music is changing, how the business model is changing, and contextual...
BNNR06 2021/01/02
Outstanding
Podcast #17 is outstanding. I’m over 60 and not particularly knowledgeable about music, but love to listen and have tried live streaming during this ...
Podcast sponsorship advertising
Start advertising on Money 4 Nothing relevant audience podcasts
You may also like to advertise on these Podcasts

4.82052735
Tangentially Speaking with Christopher Ryan
Chris Ryan

4.8420100
Why Today Doesn't Suck
The Ticket | Cumulus Media Dallas

4.5727898
Gamers With Jobs - Conference Call
Gamers With Jobs

4.773500
Eye On Annapolis Daily News Brief
Eye On Annapolis

4.8123942
Smart Agency Masterclass with Jason Swenk: Podcast for Digital Marketing Agencies
Jason Swenk

4.6791357
Daily Politics from the New Statesman
The New Statesman

4.3308400
Wonder of Parenting - A Brain-Science Approach to Parenting
Parenting

4.9171463
The Times Tech Podcast
The Sunday Times

4.5304330
25 Whistles with Bobby Bones (A Football Podcast)
iHeartPodcasts

4.7793988
Shameless Leadership
Sara Dean