Advertise on podcast: Employing Differences

"Awesome things end to make room for more awesome things. If we just continue to try to hold on to things that have been great, even when they're still going great, eventually everything has a natural lifecycle and time span to it." Karen & Paul talk about the complexities of ending long-term collaborative projects, using their decision to conclude their podcast, 'Employing Differences,' as a case study. They explore topics such as broaching the subject of ending, processing emotions, and affirming the value of the relationship. The episode is a reflection on their collaborative journey, the appreciations they have for each other, and lessons learned about handling endings with vulnerability and respect.

"The greater the skillset of the participants, the less skill the facilitator needs and the greater the skill of the facilitator." Karen & Paul discuss how a meeting participant can help a facilitator during a meeting without undermining their authority.

"If you're the sort of person who naturally dominates conversation, step back. If you're the sort of person who naturally doesn't say anything, step in. And to add some nuance to that, really to think about and to listen for what are things that are being said in the group that's relevant, germane to the topic at hand." Karen & Paul talk about how to be an effective meeting participant, focusing on when to speak up and when to hold back. They emphasize the importance of balancing natural tendencies—whether one is inclined to dominate discussions or remain silent. Key points include the value of bringing new, relevant information to the group and recognizing the group's capacity to hear contributions. The episode highlights discernment in communication, stressing concise and timely participation.

"And starting with preparation, which very often we don't think about preparing for a meeting, especially if we're not facilitating. But it's very useful to gather what information you can. If there is an agenda, review it. If there's information that's been sent out, you know, decide how much of it it's useful for you to read and get familiar with." Karen & Paul share effective ways to prepare for a meeting as a participant. They explore the importance of understanding the meeting's purpose, gathering necessary information, managing interpersonal dynamics, and honestly assessing the necessity of your attendance.

"Part of being a good advisor is trusting the other person to be an expert in their context, in their life, in the things that they're doing and to listen to them when they say things around that." Karen & Paul discuss how to effectively provide advice in a collaborative space, particularly for consultants or advisors who must respect their clients’ autonomy while offering their expertise. They explore the challenges of finding a middle ground between being overly directive and completely hands-off, emphasizing the importance of mutual respect and understanding.

"Sometimes what happens is somebody's organizing in a meeting on behalf of others with great intentions, but the others, like the people who are in the conflict, who need to work it out actually are not very interested in doing any work on it." Karen & Paul share how to identify and address meetings that are inherently impossible to facilitate successfully. They share insights on recognizing unrealistic expectations, the importance of preparatory work, and the need for honest communication about capabilities and constraints.

" If we're gonna ask, it needs to have something, we need to know what we're gonna do with it. Because when people know that they're supposed to ask for feedback about stuff, but they actually have no plan to incorporate any of the ideas that they get. That contributes to, you know, just this feeling of like, well, this is a checkbox, like this is a performative ask." Karen & Paul talk about how to handle feedback effectively, emphasizing the importance of having a plan for it. They stress that feedback should be solicited only if there's a genuine intention to use the information. They explore the negative impact of performative feedback requests and the importance of closing the feedback loop, either by implementing suggestions or by explaining why certain feedback won't be acted upon, to maintain trust and credibility.

" Give yourself permission to choose the one that serves you best. And if you're in a community space or a teamwork space or a job kind of space, that doesn't just mean you can do the thing that's entirely selfish, but you can selfishly do the thing that gives me the community that I want." Karen & Paul share the concept of intentional choice and its importance in relationships and community spaces. They explore how this skill contrasts with reactivity and habitual behaviors, emphasizing the need to consider future outcomes and act in ways congruent with personal values and the needs of others.

" What is vulnerable for one person to do in one situation, in one environment is not the same for everybody else and for anyone else in that situation that there are a lot of external factors that play into it as well." Karen & Paul talks about the concept of calibrating vulnerability in collaborative and relational environments. They explore how balancing vulnerability with safety can enhance connections and the effectiveness of teams. Drawing from the works of Brene Brown and Dr. Amy Edmondson, they emphasize the importance of finding the right level of vulnerability to foster trust and collaboration while avoiding extremes of either excessive safety or vulnerability.

"The idea is that what we know and what we think is what matters, and that ignores the fact that what we think and what we're able to access of what we know are decidedly influenced by what we feel. So the introspection is kind of trying to get all of those pieces together." Karen & Paul discuss the concept of introspection skills and their importance in collaborative relationships. They define introspection as turning curiosity inward to understand one’s own emotions, needs, and logical reasoning. Emphasizing emotional literacy, they highlight the significance of precisely naming emotions to better understand their influence on thoughts and actions.

"Curiosity is about knowing what questions to ask, so that we can then listen deeply for the answer. And for me, curiosity is very much about asking genuine questions, and that is to say questions that we don't know the answer to. These are non rhetorical. These are things where we actually don't know the answer and we want to know the answer. Like there's a sense of wonder or sometimes fascination." Karen & Paul discuss the importance of curiosity as a skill in collaborative relationships. They explain how curiosity involves asking genuine questions to understand others better, contrasting it with judgment and certainty.

"This is where I am. This is what I'm thinking. This is what I've experienced. This is the impact that it had on me, where my brain went when you said that thing, or whatever it is. But it leaves the door open for them to have a different experience, and a different understanding. So yes, they need to know that you're really mad about that thing they did, but they don't need to get the impression that you think they're a horrible person because of it." Karen & Paul explore the importance of speaking skills in collaborative environments, emphasizing the need for thoughtful communication, considering the impact on the listener, and preparing for challenging conversations. They discuss the balance between expressing thoughts, feelings, and needs while making room for dialogue and understanding.

"Listening is a relational skill. It's not just about I know what you know, so now we can make better decisions. It creates connection to feel heard. It creates trust and safety to know that I actually have heard what you have to say. It has that relational impact in addition to the informational part." Karen & Paul share the importance of listening skills in building effective relationships. They introduce the technique of mirroring, inspired by Imago Relationship Theory, as a key method for improving listening. This involves repeating back what the other person says to ensure understanding and asking follow-up questions like 'Did I get you?' and 'Is there more?'

"One of our criteria was, it has to be a skill that is an individual. This is how I relate to people. This is how I engage with people. This is perhaps how I engage with conflict, that kind of space." Karen & Paul discuss the importance of identifying and developing relational skills that individuals can use to improve interactions and prevent conflicts. They outline six key skill areas: listening, speaking, curiosity, introspection, calibrating vulnerability, and intentional choice. The episode serves as an introduction to a series where each of these skills will be explored in detail to help individuals practice and enhance their relational capabilities.

"In some ways, you don't want people to feel good after the skill building. You want them to feel capable. You still want them to be unhappy about the situation, but know that they now have a thing that they can do. Because you want them to still be motivated to do it." Karen & Paul share strategies for intervening in organizational crises, focusing on whether to address the immediate problem or to build the necessary skills for better collaboration.