Advertise on podcast: Two Sides of the Spectrum

Kids who are very intellectually bright and also Autistic have a unique set of struggles, one that is often missed, silenced, or poorly supported. They may struggle with shame, perfectionism, self-advocacy, boredom, dysregulation, being misidentified, and being misunderstood. Today's episode with school psychologist and parent coach Dr. Danika Maddocks covers the ways 2E kids are struggling that are so often missed, and how we can show up to support them.  For show notes as well as in-person and livestreamed CE trainings visit learnplaythrive.com For more episodes visit patreon.com/learnplaythrive

When Dr. Mel Houser started medical school, they never imagined that they would later find themselves reimagining healthcare for neurodivergent people. But their work has been remarkable - and offers all of us a template for challenging systems that create barriers to health, belonging, and participation. This episode explores four key ideas: healthcare is more than medical care; solutions should come from those closest to the problem; universal design creates multiple paths to participation; and safety is the foundation for meaningful participation. Dr. Mel Houser is a family physician, the founder and executive director of All Brains Belong Vermont, and the author of the upcoming book, A Failure of Imagination: How the healthcare system fails neurodivergent people - and what we're doing instead.  For show notes as well as in-person and livestreamed CE trainings visit learnplaythrive.com For more episodes visit patreon.com/learnplaythrive

Here's what we know: assisted methods to teaching typing have been highly controversial in the field of speech-language pathology and simultaneously have been passionately defended by many non-speaking Autistics. In a recent paper, researcher Vikram Jaswal, along with a team including Dr. Kristie Patten, Dr. Barry Prizant, and several others, argued that we need more research on assisted communication methods so that we can get clearer answers. On the podcast today, Dr. Jaswal and Italk about what all of this means, why it has been so controversial, and what steps might help us understand the potential - and the limitations - of assisted communication methods.   For show notes as well as in-person and livestreamed CE trainings visit learnplaythrive.com For more episodes visit patreon.com/learnplaythrive

Ever wondered how to apply Dr. Ross Green's model of Collaborative & Proactive Solutions to your work with PDA clients? Today's guest, AuDHD mental health therapist Stacey Curnow, is writing a book about it with Dr. Green's collaboration and oversight. In today's episode, we talk about what exactly collaboration looks like in practice with PDA clients. We also dive into supporting parents, teaching daily living skills, supporting PDAers with aggressive behaviors, PDA kids in burnout, and so much more.  For show notes as well as in-person and livestreamed CE trainings visit learnplaythrive.com For more episodes visit patreon.com/learnplaythrive

The folks at PDA North America recently surveyed over 2,000 families about PDA (Pathological Demand Avoidance, or the Pervasive Drive for Autonomy). What they learned has major implications for your clinical practice. In today’s episode, you'll hear from Diane Gould, Ruth Hevelone, and Michele Kleinmann. We talk about what they learned from their PDA Experiences survey, as well as the practices that are supportive for PDAers. We talk about respect, partnership, flexibility, authenticity,  congruency, and more. We also address in depth that question that so many of us get when we are accommodating our Autistic clients: "What about the real world?"   If you support PDA-ers, after you listen to this conversation, make sure to also check out our Patreon where we have providers talking in-depth about how they support PDA-ers in the context of everyday SLP, OT, mental health practice. They go into how to move through rupture and repair when they get it wrong, some of our guests talk about how to support PDA-ers in burnout, how to bring autonomy into everything including regulation, and more. It's just $7 for over 30-hours of content and you can find it at patreon.com/learnplaythrive. Your support on Patreon helps us cover the cost of this podcast and keep it going.   For show notes as well as in-person and livestreamed CE trainings visit learnplaythrive.com For more episodes visit patreon.com/learnplaythrive

When it comes to helping neurodivergent folks find playful, engaging ways to do the things they need to do, ADHD content creator Dani Donoval is the most creative person I’ve ever met. By the end of this episode, you’ll be grabbing a 20-sided die and turning your neurodivergent client into their own Dungeons and Dragons character, springboarding them out of "stuck" and into action. On this podcast, we know that our clients’ worthiness has never and will never be tied to our ability to do more and produce more. And at the same time, we know that many people struggle to do the things they have to do. Dani has broken the barriers down into five subcategories: stuck, overwhelmed, unmotivated, disorganized, and discouraged.  In this episode, she helps us work through what the different types of barriers look like, and we dive into what specific strategies can help.  Dani Donovan is an ADHD comic artist and the author of The Anti-Planner.  For show notes as well as in-person and livestreamed CE trainings visit learnplaythrive.com For more episodes visit patreon.com/learnplaythrive

This episode is a deep and nuanced exploration into the seemingly competing needs of being Autistic and being ADHD. We call these folks AuDHD-ers, and they're often faced with both the need for routines that comes with being Autistic and the craving for novelty that comes with ADHD. In this episode, AuDHD psychotherapist, Dr. Bowen Marshall, helps us explore all of the complexities around AuDHD, including how ADHD and autism can be complementary and how that may change when one condition is medicated. We talk about what's tricky and what helps, and we look in every corner of this to explore the complexities of this topic, like dopamine, executive function, routines, estrogen, testosterone, gender identity, race, and more.   Dr. Bowen Marshall, PhD is a licensed psychotherapist, bestselling author, and consultant specializing in ADHD, Autism, relationships, and Complex-PTSD. For show notes as well as in-person and livestreamed CE trainings visit learnplaythrive.com For more episodes visit patreon.com/learnplaythrive

{{Two Sides of the Spectrum is now Born to Be Free!}} This episode is a sweeping overview of the co-occurring conditions that Autistic people often experience, including OCD, depression, anxiety, ADHD, PDA, and more. Autistic Licensed Psychological Practitioner Matt Lowry helps us take a topic that can feel huge and overwhelming and reduce it to a few core themes that make affirming practice feel clear, grounded, and simple, even when we are supporting clients with more complex profiles. Matt Lowry lives and practices in Kentucky, where he specializes in autism and ADHD evaluations, and Autistic-centered therapy. He is the proud parent of an Autistic child and works to promote an understanding of autism and the Autistic lifestyle.         For show notes as well as in-person and livestreamed CE trainings visit learnplaythrive.com For more episodes visit patreon.com/learnplaythrive

We have a new podcast name! Keep your eyes out for our first episode of Born to Be Free: Supporting Your Neurodivergent Clients to Learn, Play, and Thrive. The podcast is relaunching with an emphasis on all of the complexities our Autistic clients experience, and how we can support them in affirming ways. We're starting off with a focus on Autistic people who also have OCD, depression, anxiety, ADHD, multiple disabilities, motor difficulties, PDA, twice exceptionality, and more. Don't miss our first episode of Born to Be Free where we will talk about co-occurring conditions for Autistic people with Autistic LPP Matt Lowry, coming next week! In the meantime, get more in-depth episodes about what affirming practices look like in action at patreon.com/learnplaythrive. Or join an in-person or livestreamed training at learnplaythrive.com/trainings. For show notes as well as in-person and livestreamed CE trainings visit learnplaythrive.com For more episodes visit patreon.com/learnplaythrive

This episode dives into the specific needs of AuDHD-ers – that’s kids who are Autistic and have ADHD -  tying in executive functioning, social-emotional well-being, and so much more.  Vanessa’s take is detailed, creative, and deeply practical. You’re going to want to take notes! Vanessa Castañeda Gill is an AuDHDer and the cofounder and CEO of Social Cipher, where she and her team create social-emotional learning video games and curriculum for neurodivergent youth. Want MORE EPISODES of Two Sides of the Spectrum and recorded Q&As with our guests? Join our community at patreon.com/learnplaythrive  For show notes as well as in-person and livestreamed CE trainings visit learnplaythrive.com For more episodes visit patreon.com/learnplaythrive

"Because therapy should feel like a collaboration and becoming, not a rehearsal and being less yourself in order to survive." - Chenai Mupotsa-Russell In this short episode, you get a sneak peek into the audio from one of our most poetic and transformative summit talks. Our continuing education summit is now $100 off and available on-demand at learnplaythrive.com/summit Selected Transcript: "Normal is not a neutral baseline. It is a construct, a fiction, a colonizing force. Normativities function to flatten difference, discipline the body, decide who gets to be seen as competent, coherent, and worthy. So, when we center neurodivergent and gender diverse lives, we're not offering inclusion into a category of 'normal', we are refusing the category altogether. Divergence in whatever form is not a problem to solve. It is a truth. They are the most natural, beautiful, diverse, amazing ways of being rooted in sensation, relationship, rhythm, self-determination, expression. The problem has never been the child, the adult, the human. It's in the systems that punish difference in the name of order.  And so, the therapeutic task is not to bring the client closer to functioning - a functioning built on an idea of a human that is so far from them and so many other people. The idea is to undo the harm that normativity has caused. It's to let go of those normativities and start to reimagine what the world could be like if we allowed for the full spectrum of human experiencing, to make space for becoming on one's own terms, however they present or move through the world. Creative practice becomes essential here. Not decorative, not soft, but radical and necessary. Sensory-based creative engagement reaches the brain, the body, the heart, the soul in ways words can't. And for those constantly coerced into verbal or behavioral conformity, art, creativity, movement becomes a language of refusal, regulation, and reclamation. The work isn't to help the client survive unjust conditions. It's to help deconstruct the conditions that made survival feel like the only option. Because therapy should feel like a collaboration and becoming, not a rehearsal in being less yourself in order to survive." From Colour Outside the Lines: Exploring Art, Gender, and Neurodivergence Beyond the Binary with Chenai Mupotsa-Russell MTAP, AThR in the Learn Play Thrive 2026 Continuing Education Summit For show notes as well as in-person and livestreamed CE trainings visit learnplaythrive.com For more episodes visit patreon.com/learnplaythrive

Dr. Devon Price’s work sits at the intersection of trauma-informed care and Autistic unmasking. In this interview, he walks us through five core practices for unmasking, and shares how to approach them thoughtfully with Autistic clients who have experienced trauma - which is most of the Autistic community. We explore practices such as learning your preferences and disentangling them from social norms, building resilience, cultivating distress tolerance, and shaping your life - both in big, structural ways and in the small, everyday details. A lot has been said about unmasking, but very few approaches hold the work with this level of care. Dr. Devon Price is a social psychologist, clinical associate professor at Loyola University Chicago, and an Autistic person. His books include Laziness Does Not Exist, Unlearning Shame, Unmasking Autism, and his newest release, Unmasking for Life. Want MORE EPISODES of Two Sides of the Spectrum, recorded Q&As with our guests, and a listener chat forum? We just launched our Patreon and we need your support! Join our community at patreon.com/learnplaythrive For show notes as well as in-person and livestreamed CE trainings visit learnplaythrive.com For more episodes visit patreon.com/learnplaythrive

Learning from Chenai Mupotsa-Russell will absolutely transform you. Chenai doesn't just teach us how we can use art of every kind to support well-being for our clients, she also embodies everything she teaches — art, liberation, anti-colonial practice, and so much more. In today's conversation, we explore the role that art can play in our work as providers with concrete examples, and ideas, and stories from Chenai that you can use right away. Chenai Mupotsa-Russell is an art therapist, community builder, advocate, and PhD candidate in community psychology.  Her research reimagines mental health through decolonial practice, collective care, and intersectional justice. Want MORE EPISODES of Two Sides of the Spectrum, recorded Q&As with our guests, and a listener chat forum? We just launched our Patreon and we need your support! Join our community at https://patreon.com/learnplaythrive    For show notes as well as in-person and livestreamed CE trainings visit learnplaythrive.com For more episodes visit patreon.com/learnplaythrive

Ableism is ingrained into our society, and many of us wonder what we can do about it. Occupational therapist Sara Zielinski decided that a huge celebration - centering disability pride - in her small town would be a great place to start. What happened next was transformative. In this episode Sara teaches us how to throw a disability pride event, why events like this matter, and how we can all be change agents in our workplaces and our communities. Want MORE EPISODES of Two Sides of the Spectrum, recorded Q&As with our guests, and a listener chat forum? We just launched our Patreon and we need your support! Join our community at patreon.com/learnplaythrive For show notes as well as in-person and livestreamed CE trainings visit learnplaythrive.com For more episodes visit patreon.com/learnplaythrive

When your Autistic clients have trouble identifying the emotions inside of their bodies, emotion-based regulation systems aren't always helpful. This episode is all about how regulation can be guided by energy levels. Specifically, how we help our Autistic clients match their energy level to what’s needed for the things they need or want to do.   Our guests are the two incredible folks behind Autism Level Up. Jacquelyn Fede, who is an Autistic advocate and developmental psychologist and Amy Laurent, who is a developmental psychologist, a registered pediatric occupational therapist and co-author of the SCERTS model.   Amy and Jacquelyn’s work show us that there’s no one right way to be regulated. And this model gives a profoundly impactful alternative to traditional models of regulation. This is an updated release of Episode 7 from 2020.   Amy and Jacquelyn are also speaking at our 2026 Continuing Education Summit. Grab a ticket at learnplaythrive.com/summit Want MORE EPISODES of Two Sides of the Spectrum and recorded Q&As with our guests? Join us on Patreon at patreon.com/learnplaythrive. Your support on Patreon helps keep the podcast going.   For show notes as well as in-person and livestreamed CE trainings visit learnplaythrive.com For more episodes visit patreon.com/learnplaythrive