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Marie Griffith, PhD, John C. Danforth Distinguished Professor in the Humanities at Washington University in St. Louis. She served for 12 years (2011-2023) as the director of the John C. Danforth Center on Religion and Politics and the editor of the Center’s journal, Religion & Politics. Her research focuses on American Christianity, including the changing profile of American evangelicals and ongoing conflicts over gender, sexuality, and marriage. Author of several books, including Moral Combat: How Sex Divided America and Fractured American Politics, the book discussed in this episode. Uncertain is a podcast of  Tears of Eden, a community and resource for those in the aftermath of Spiritual Abuse. If you’re enjoying this podcast, please take a moment to like, subscribe, or leave a review on your favorite podcasting listening apparatus. You can support the podcast by going to TearsofEden.org/support To get in touch with us please email tearsofeden.org@gmail.com Follow on Instagram @uncertainpodcast Transcript is unedited for typos or misspellings [00:00:00] I'm Katherine Spearing, and this is Uncertain. Hello. How are you? How are you hanging in there? I hope you're doing okay. I'm doing semi okay. It's been a lot inundation with this very real, very damaging type of abuse. One thing that you may or may not know is folks who have experienced spiritual abuse and folks who have experienced sexual abuse. They're very similar to each other. Spiritual abuse and sexual abuse are very, very similar. The impact is very, very similar because it is so, so vulnerable. You are so vulnerable when this happens and it violates our intimacy and it violates our very souls in a way that maybe other abuse doesn't. So if you are traumatized. By the abuse that you experienced in a church [00:01:00] or a high control environment or religious environments in your family. There's a reason for that. It makes a lot of sense. It's very, very serious trauma. So one of the things that we discussed in this episode is how the folks who. experience sexual abuse when they go to the religious institution where they experience that abuse and say, Hey, help me, this happened, this was awful, please help me. When they get dismissed or falsely accused or sidelined or silenced, that that is sometimes worse than the sexual abuse that they experienced in that institution. This episode is with Marie Griffith. She is the author of Moral Combat, How Sex Divided America and Fractured American Politics. It's an intense book. A lot of research went into this book. She's also a scholar [00:02:00] and a professor of religion at Washington University. And one of the things we will also discuss in this episode is how she literally taught a class on abuse in the church in a secular university. What? Crazy, crazy, crazy. Great conversation, lots of mind blowing moments about the connection between sex and sexual abuse and the rampant abuse that is happening in the evangelical church right now. Enjoy, or don't enjoy, but take it in for sure. And as always, take care of yourself, get some rest, give yourself some time after this episode to go for a walk, take a sip of water, breathe. You're okay, wherever you are, you are okay, take a deep breath, you are safe, you are here, you are now, you are present, you're going to be okay.[00:03:00] Here is my interview with Marie Griffith. Katherine: Hi, Catherine. Oh, how are you? How are you? And I have your big book here. This was a lot of work. She took this. Marie: And that was like I don't even want to tell you how many years. I mean, it was really sort of 15 years. I did other things as I was doing that, Katherine: but yeah. Yeah, just like the amount of research that went into just like one chapter I was like, this was a very large endeavor. But how are you this morning? How are you doing? How is your writing? Is it like a writing sabbatical? Is that kind of what this season is called? Marie: Yeah, I'm on, I'm on re

Brian Lee, from Through Cohort and Broken to Beloved Summit interviews Tears of Eden’s Founder Katherine Spearing about the Church’s harmful teachings on marriage that can result in very real trauma—for single and married people. Transcript (Unedited for Typos and Misspellings) Brian: [00:00:00] Hello everyone, welcome to our session. I'm here with Katherine Spearing. Katherine is the founder of Tears of Eden, a non profit supporting survivors of spiritual abuse, and the host of Tears affiliate podcast Uncertain. She also hosts the podcast Trauma and Pop Culture, and is a certified trauma recovery coach, working primarily with clients who have survived cults, High control environments, spiritual abuse, and sexual abuse. She also provides specialized trauma informed career coaching, as folks with trauma often need extra support for interviewing and networking, which I can attest to. Catherine is the author of a historical romantic comedy, which we talked about last year, Hartford's, a novel that challenges gender roles in a patriarchal society that will appeal to fans of Jane Austen. And she's been a guest on a number of podcasts. including indoctrination, and that's so effed up. She's the author of several non fiction articles and writes regularly at katherinespearing. com and tearsofeden. org. Welcome back, welcome back. [00:01:00] Very excited, Katherine: very excited. Me too. Brian: So we're here to talk today about being single within the context of faith communities, which is a big I don't know anywhere else that I really hear about this talked about, so I'm excited to dive into it. What is it like for a single person within these communities? Katherine: Right, yeah, and I think on the subject of it not being talked about very much, I definitely looked, obviously, that's who I am. So I have looked for books on this particular topic, and they all tend to have this, like, this like, consolation prize flair to it. Like You're a single, but you didn't want this. So here's some tips for being happy despite the situation that you find yourself in as if it's like. So so sad. And so haven't haven't read a lot where I was just like, Oh, like I'm empowered. I'm inspired. I'm [00:02:00] encouraged very, very rarely. And then also just within this topic that I'm very, I'm very passionate about just living a thriving life wherever you are and being very present wherever you are, no matter. Single or not, and I think 1 of the things that I have discovered through just the work that I do with religious trauma and spiritual abuse survivors is that to say, hey, like, it's, you know, really important to live a thriving life here. Here are tools to live a thriving life to then. Ignore the systemic issues that then make it difficult to have a thriving life. It's kind of, it's just half of the story. And so there's a lot of. Messaging towards singles of just like be content and be happy within faith communities without acknowledging the things that then make it difficult to be happy. And one example is [00:03:00] I learned very, very young that it was okay for me to be single, but it was okay for me to be single only. If I was unhappy about being single and only I was actively seeking to change that status and at the same time be happy being single and so rejoice in this lot that God has given you, but then also actively seek to change it and actively. Date and actively ask for prayer for your future husband. So, it's very, very stark cognitive dissonance happening within these communities. I also, my, my vocation was ministry and the perspective that I'm coming from for this conversation is. The even growing up in the evangelical church and being in that evangelical perspective, also choosing a vocation of ministry and and being in that for almost a decade. [00:04:00] And and so I think I experienced some of this a little bit more acutely because. I was in ministry and, and happened to be in denominations that were just much mor

Connie Baker, LPC author of Traumatized by Religious Abuse and a therapist who works with survivors of religious trauma, joins Uncertain to discuss what thriving might look like after Spiritual Abuse. This is a nuanced subject, intended to provide hope (not pressure!). Thank you for joining us for Spiritual Abuse Awareness Month in 2024! Transcript is unedited for typos or misspellings [00:00:00] I'm Katherine Spearing, and this is Uncertain. It's Spiritual Abuse Awareness Month, and this is our last episode of January 2024. My guest today is someone who It has become very, very special to me. Her name is Connie Baker. She is a therapist. She has a book for survivors of religious abuse. And Connie was our very first guest speaker at our very first in person event. Back in October, and it was phenomenal. She can speak to the survivor experience in such a meaningful way because she is one. And she's been doing this work long before I even heard of spiritual abuse. She has so much knowledge and I trust her to address this subject of thriving after spiritual abuse with nuance and care because nobody wants to be pressured [00:01:00] into thriving when you're just trying to survive and that's not the point of this episode but this is a glimmer of hope for down the road that maybe someday maybe someday We will be here.  Here is my conversation with Connie Baker. Katherine: Hello, Connie. How are you? Connie: Good. So fun to see you, Catherine. I'm so Katherine: excited to see you again. For our listeners, Connie was our guest speaker, keynote speaker at the RetreatCon, which was Terzian's very first in person event in the fall. She was phenomenal. I loved every moment of her. Connie's talks, but then also just getting to hang out with this person. So if you have a chance to buy her book and oh shoot, I'm totally blanking on the name of your book. What Connie: is it? It's right, Traumatized by Religious Abuse. Yes. Say it one more time. Traumatized by Religious Abuse. Katherine: Beautiful. Wonderful. Amazing book. Very, very, very practical. A lot of folks [00:02:00] have named your book is just very practical for survivors. And one of the things that we invited Connie to do at the retreat con was speak about. Yeah. thriving after spiritual abuse, which I think so many of us are surviving. Maybe we're healing. We don't really talk about like that moment when you get a chance to just kind of come out of that survival space and laugh. And have fun and see the sun and, and it seems impossible sometimes that we'll ever get to that place. Yes. But, but Connie, Connie is really great about making that realistic. Not, that's, that's what I think I loved about it. It's not fluffy and silver linings. It's realistic and I learned so much from your talk. So I'm really excited to get to jump into that again. to just get us started and sort of lay a [00:03:00] foundation for discussing what it's like to thrive after spiritual abuse after we've been through this. Could you paint a picture for us of what the impact of spiritual abuse feels like? Like, what does that look like to someone? Oh, Connie: yes, yes, I can. Yes, I can. And before we go there, Catherine, I just want to say, I am so thrilled that that was the first retreat. Like, in other words, others are following. It was so, and I know you probably talked about this in follow up podcasts after the retreat, but it was powerful having all those humans. And I think there was also extra power in it post, well, post late pandemic, whatever we're calling this thing for people to to. Humanly be in the same space and connect. I think, well, Terry, just remembering it, it just was so [00:04:00] powerful. And so I'm just thrilled that you are hosting. Cause we talked about this when I was there. We both have hosted big events before, you know, in our life. And I know what it takes to put something like that on. What was there 25, 30 people somewhere in

Julia and Jeremiah from the Sexvangelicals podcast (a podcast for providing the sex education the church didn’t want you to have) join Uncertain podcast to discuss how Purity Culture can impact men.Some topics addressed in this episode:  Erectile Disfunction Shame around sex Sexual Agression  Gender Binaries  Check out two of the Sexvangelicals' episodes featuring Uncertain’s host Katherine Spearing: Episode #53: Kicking Off the New Year with Spiritual Abuse: How to Leave a Controlling Family Environment, with Katherine Spearing Episode #54: Kicking Off the New Year with Spiritual Abuse: How Romantic Comedies Can Reinforce the Worst Parts of Evangelical Culture, with Katherine Spearing Julia Postema and Jeremiah Gibson are the co-hosts of the podcast Sexvangelicals: The Sex Education the Church Didn't Want You to Have. They are both Boston-based licensed psychotherapists and certified sex therapists who work with clients in Massachusetts. They currently live in Utrecht, The Netherlands. They specialize in helping couples with negative religious backgrounds discover sexuality that works for their partnership. They enjoy traveling to places that tend to fly under the radar, long-distance hiking, cooking very spicy food, unexpected conversations, and introverted days filled with reading and drinking fancy tea. Socials: Instagram and Threads: @sexvangelicals Website: www.sexvangelicals.com Substack (Relationship 101): sexvangelicals.substack.com Transcript is unedited for typos or misspellings Katherine: [00:00:00] Hello. How are you? Julia: Good. We're excited. Katherine: Yes. It is morning where I am, or early, early, early afternoon, and then it is evening where you all are. I know. So, thanks for giving up your Saturday night. I know you would. Probably normally be out wildly partying, Jeremiah: right? Wildly. The wildest Julia: of parties. Katherine: You in the Netherlands. Jeremiah: That's right. Hanging out with windmills and eating a bunch of cheese. Julia: Today is Sinterklaas and so I have heard that it is a chaotic time to be out. So this is a good day to be inside. We've got tea. It is raining outside. So this is actually a cozy and a Perfect way to send Saturday night. I love Katherine: it. I am so excited to be able to talk to you. I love, I love y'all's podcast episodes. I have recommended them to, I mostly recommend them to friends of mine who are recently [00:01:00] divorced and first exploring. All of the things that they were not allowed to explore pre evangelical marriage. And and so that's a, that's a recommendation y'all are a recommendation that I pass around to some folks. I love your intro. My favorite part about your, your. Podcast episode for listeners is how you, you kind of interview each other and chat like before your episodes, those, those are always really, Jeremiah: yes, absolutely. And we do talk about divorce a lot on our podcast. So, that is unfortunately a part of our story and, and, and how we've come into how we've come into recognizing the impact of purity culture on relationships, so. Is that a part Katherine: of both of your stories? Julia: It is. Yeah. We are both we are both divorced. Katherine: All right. And then, did you all get into doing what you do as sex and relationship therapy post [00:02:00] evangelicalism? Our post? These experiences or was this something that came up before, were you already working in this? Jeremiah: So I, a little bit of both for me. So, I joke with people, except it's not a joke, that I did my first couples therapy session when I was 12. And listeners, you can... Put some of the pieces together. I, so, so I've known for some time that that I wanted to be a couples therapist. Huh. And in the field of psychotherapy there's a specific license for marriage and family therapy. My license is in marriage and family therapy. And a lot of the marriage and family therapy schools are either at the

Rachel Bernstein LMFT, MSEd from the IndoctriNation podcast discusses what it’s like working with survivors from high-control groups. This episode is for survivors looking for a mental health professional or for mental health professionals looking to work with the demographic of survivors of cults, high-control groups, and spiritual abuse. University of Salford Transcript (Transcript is unedited for typos and misspellings) Katherine: Hello. How are you doing today? Rachel: I am doing really good. How are you doing today? Katherine: I am good. I am a little tired. I went to a midnight book release. On Monday nights, and I don't ever stay up that late, and I'm still sleeping. That was a new thing for me. I was like, this is what teenagers do. These are not what people who are almost 40 do. But it was fun. It was a fun experience. I'm glad. Very excited to talk to you today. I know you have indoctrination podcast, and you do a lot of different work with a lot of different clients, but the particular demographic that I would [00:01:00] love to talk to you about is the demographic of folks who've And cults or high control experiences. And I would love to hear from you, what prompted you to work with this demographic and what was the story that led you to working with this type Rachel: of client? Nice. Okay. So there's so much to this story. I'll try not to make it overly long, but Okay, great. No, go for it. Tell, tell, tell whatever. It's slightly long, longer than it needs to be, not overly. Right. Huh. Right. So, When I was growing up, my, one of my siblings who was eight years older got. Kind of a new friend through a friend, and they started hanging out a lot. Next thing we know, she's not really spending time at home. She has taken the money out of her [00:02:00] account and it's gone. Which she had really worked hard for. In my family, we were supposed to work from when we were young. If we needed cash for anything, even to go to the movies, well, you need to earn it. You know, it was like that. So it, you know, we didn't take spending lots of money all at once lightly. Cause we know how much we had worked to make it and suddenly liquidated gone. And she was speaking differently. She was acting in a very kind of in your face way. And we're like, what is going on? So then she said that she has this friend of a friend who's introduced her to this place. It's called Scientology. Got it. And and it's a church, but we're a Jewish family, but it's not a church church. That would, that became a line in our family forever. It's not a church church. Like what? I'm sorry. It's not a church church, but it's not. So. Because there really wasn't the idea of a word cult that was known at the time, and this was in the 70s. So there [00:03:00] was no one to call. There were no resources that, you know, the books out there at the time before the interwebs, the, the books were written by cult leaders. Like there were L. Ron Hubbard novels out there about Dianetics and his science fiction books, but nothing about what is Scientology and that it is a cult. And the, the cult books that were out there too, were more about like working with POWs who had been indoctrinated and watching the Manchurian candidate and are like, yeah, fit, but not. So the turning point was. And I learned a lot about this. My, my parents responded different ways to stressful events. My mom was more of a kind of in your face, you have to stop this right now, finger pointing. I mean, that, that does sometimes come in handy, right? And my father instead was the, let me link arms with this person, see what they like about it, see what's interesting to them. But also I want to ask my questions about what I'm concerned about. So, They had tension and [00:04:00] she had tension with my parents and she said this group is going to teach me how to get along better with, with all of you. And And my friend said she's gotten along better with her parents since she's gotten i

Brian Lee shares his personal story of experiencing spiritual abuse and what led him to start Broken to Beloved, an online summit and support resource for survivors. Register for the Broken to Beloved Summit January 23-26, 2024 HERE Brian Lee is a pastor, coach, and speaker. As a survivor of spiritual abuse and religious trauma, he has spent his time since leaving vocational ministry in 2021 working to provide recovery and resources for fellow victims and survivors. In 2023, he created and founded Broken to Beloved, a nonprofit organization that exists to help other victims and survivors through its Annual Summit and seasonal Cohorts, while also providing trauma awareness and safeguarding practices to pastors, leaders and churches. Based in Richmond, VA, Brian loves to go on outdoor adventures with his family, explore their neighborhood, community, and city, find good parks, enjoy good food, and have fun together. As a coffee snob and addict, he could always use another cup. Transcript (Transcript is unedited for typos or misspellings): Katherine: hey, Brian. Brian: Hey, Katherine. How's it going? Going? All right. How about you? Doing, Katherine: doing well, doing, doing okay for doing okay. Or a Tuesday. Brian: It's just for the end of the month slash year slash the world is losing its mind. Katherine: Right. I know like there's been a lot of moments this week where somebody will say something about Christmas and I'm like, Oh, that's, that's on Sunday. Yes. Okay. We are, we are still, there is still Christmas. Yes. Well, thanks for joining me. I am really excited to talk to you about your summit that you are hosting and curating in January for Spiritual Abuse Awareness Month. At the time this episode comes out, it will already be January. So I'm really excited to hear about that. I got to participate in that [00:01:00] last year. We'll be participating again this year. Great time to just connect with other people working in this spiritual abuse, recovery, religious trauma, recovery space, and also. Spiritual Abuse Awareness Month for folks who are not aware is in January. And we were talking before we started recording about when we first heard about Spiritual Abuse Awareness Month. When, when was it for listeners that you first Brian: heard about it? I just learned about it last year because, and I, but to be fair, I've only been doing this work for about a year now. I wish I knew about it sooner. And I think we were both saying it's like, we can't find who originated this thing. But it's been around for at least 20 years, which to me is crazy. Yeah. I learned about it because of Aaron hung, who's an artist who was doing that whole AZ trauma recovery series on her Instagram page. And I was like, spiritually, it'd be some awareness a month. That's a thing. And then the more I dove into it, I was like, Oh my gosh, this is absolutely a thing. And it's been around a long time. Why do we not know more about it? Katherine: Exactly. I was wondering too, when, [00:02:00] when did that book, the oldest probably. Documented writing about spiritual abuse is probably the subtle power of spiritual abuse. I Brian: think that's what I was thinking. Yep. And that was, I think it was written in the 90s. I want to say, okay, I'm going to look for a publication date because I want to be sure. But I remember reading it thinking I was like, did they just write this like a year ago? And it's like, no, it's been around for a very long time. Yeah, Katherine: yeah, yeah. And then even just like the reality that PTSD. Was not an official diagnosis until the 80s. Brian: Yes. Katherine: Yes. We're very new in this trauma world. Yes. We're all very new to this. This is a new, new territory for all of us. Did you, did you find the Brian: date? Amazon says the publication date is 2005, but that seems late to me. I feel like it was before that. It has a very nice Katherine: cover. Brian: It does! Which is why I feel like it is. So now I

Forgiveness has often been used in the church to sideline and silence victims, either by perpetrators intent on controlling their victims or by systems of people who believe they’re doing the right thing. Connie Baker, author of Traumatized by Religious Abuse and a therapist who works with survivors of religious trauma, joins Katherine for this important discussion on a topic that is nuance, personal, and definitely emotionally charged. REGISTER FOR RETREATCON Uncertain is a podcast of  Tears of Eden, a community and resource for those in the aftermath of Spiritual Abuse. If you’re enjoying this podcast, please take a moment to like, subscribe, or leave a review on your favorite podcasting listening apparatus.

This episode discusses the brutal murder of Elizabeth Mackintosh on the campus of Covenant Theological Seminary in 1990. It also discusses an entire denomination’s apparent erasure of women. Karl Saint Lucy is a songwriter, composer, and vocalist living in The Bronx. Karl's father, Michael Johnson, is the prime suspect in the unsolved 1990 murder of Elizabeth Mackintosh on the campus of Covenant Theological Seminary. Karl is the songwriter, a co-composer (with music producer Marius de Vries), and a co-producer of A24's first movie musical, F**king Identical Twins, directed by Larry Charles, which stars Megan Thee Stallion in her first feature film. Saint Lucy was a featured soloist on John Cameron Mitchell's Anthem: Homunculus musical podcast by Luminary Originals and was an alto finalist for the GRAMMY Award-winning men's choir, Chanticleer, in 2017. Check out the 2023 podcast series TRUE BELIEVER that goes into more details about the case, Covenant Seminary, and the PCA. The ‘Cold Justice’ Team Helps Investigate The ‘Savage’ Murder Of A Seminary Student US murder suspect 'will not face charges' after Edinburgh nurse killed RESPONSE TO LETTER TO CHURCHES REGISTER FOR RETREATCON Uncertain is a podcast of  Tears of Eden, a community and resource for those in the aftermath of Spiritual Abuse. If you’re enjoying this podcast, please take a moment to like, subscribe, or leave a review on your favorite podcasting listening apparatus. You can support the podcast by going to TearsofEden.org/support To get in touch with us please email tearsofeden.org@gmail.com Follow on Instagram @uncertainpodcast

Bridget Eileen Rivera is a sociologist completing her Ph.D. at the City University of New York Graduate Center. Her first book, Heavy Burdens (Brazos Press, fall 2021), is a Foreward INDIES 2022 Finalist for religion. Providing an honest account of seven ways LGBTQ people experience discrimination in the church, Heavy Burdens helps Christians across the theological spectrum to grapple with hard realities and navigate a better approach to LGBTQ issues. You can follow Bridget's work on social media @travelingnun In this episode we discuss: How does religion impact the suicide rate of LGBTQ people? Is the Bible really clear about LGBTQ issues? How does the gender conversation impact the LGBTQ conversation? What is the political motivation behind the myth of the “gay agenda”? REGISTER FOR RETREATCON Uncertain is a podcast of  Tears of Eden, a community and resource for those in the aftermath of Spiritual Abuse. If you’re enjoying this podcast, please take a moment to like, subscribe, or leave a review on your favorite podcasting listening apparatus. You can support the podcast by going to TearsofEden.org/support To get in touch with us please email tearsofeden.org@gmail.com Follow on Instagram @uncertainpodcast Links for Survivors Discuss podcast: Website: https://survivorsdiscuss.com/ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/SurvivorsDiscuss/ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/survivorsdiscuss/ Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/3qTwCpqu8PBiXvGtJVS8SF?si=b2b62039df4a4d3d Amazon/Alexa: https://music.amazon.com/podcasts/d0479463-01ca-4580-af9c-e06eea1eed33/survivors-discuss Audible: https://www.audible.com/pd/Survivors-Discuss-Podcast/B0C9TL21ZL?action_code=ASSGB149080119000H&share_location=pdp

Armed with data from an all-new survey of more than 7,000 women, the authors of The Great Sex Rescue, Sheila Wray Gregoire, Rebecca Gregoire Lindenbach, and Joanna Sawatsky, reveal how experiences in church as teens affect women's self-esteem and relationships today in their new book She Deserves Better: Raising Girls to Resist Toxic Teachings on Sex, Self, and Speaking Up. They expose common evangelical teachings that can backfire: the purity emphasis that can cause shame rather than good choices, the dating rules that can prime girls for abuse, and the one overarching belief that can keep them from setting healthy boundaries. Sheila Wray Gregoire is the face behind ToLoveHonorandVacuum.com, the largest single-blogger marriage blog. She's also an award-winning author of nine books, including The Good Girl's Guide to Great Sex, and a sought-after speaker. With her humorous, no-nonsense approach, Sheila is passionate about changing the evangelical conversation about sex and marriage to line up with kingdom principles. She lives in Ontario, Canada, with her husband. REGISTER FOR RETREATCON Uncertain is a podcast of  Tears of Eden, a community and resource for those in the aftermath of Spiritual Abuse. If you’re enjoying this podcast, please take a moment to like, subscribe, or leave a review on your favorite podcasting listening apparatus. You can support the podcast by going to TearsofEden.org/support To get in touch with us please email tearsofeden.org@gmail.com Follow on Instagram @uncertainpodcast Links for Survivors Discuss podcast: Website: https://survivorsdiscuss.com/ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/SurvivorsDiscuss/ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/survivorsdiscuss/ Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/3qTwCpqu8PBiXvGtJVS8SF?si=b2b62039df4a4d3d Amazon/Alexa: https://music.amazon.com/podcasts/d0479463-01ca-4580-af9c-e06eea1eed33/survivors-discuss Audible: https://www.audible.com/pd/Survivors-Discuss-Podcast/B0C9TL21ZL?action_code=ASSGB149080119000H&share_location=pdp

Two ex-cult members discuss the healing power of art through the creation of a musical. Teruyo (they/them) is a racialized queer, mentally disabled, non-binary theatre artist, anti-oppression activist and graduate student in theatre. Teruyo's encounter with cults and the aftermath of manipulative mind games has fueled their drive to delve into healing and reclaiming identity through anti-colonial and anti-racist cult recovery. Through their academic research and the creation and production of original plays and musical theatre, they aspire to amplify the marginalized voices of the global majority, foster socio-political change, and cultivate trauma-informed artistry.  Lennox (they/them) is a neurodiverse, non-binary, queer theatre artist. They've endured the clutches of multiple cults, ranging from religious and spiritual to white supremacy. Ditching society's expectations and cultural boundaries, they've fully embraced their love for writing musicals, giving toxic masculinity the finger. Their creative outlet? Crafting badass socio-political musical stories that resonate with their true calling. They're rewriting the rules and reclaiming their rightful place behind the instruments. REGISTER FOR RETREATCON Uncertain is a podcast of  Tears of Eden, a community and resource for those in the aftermath of Spiritual Abuse. If you’re enjoying this podcast, please take a moment to like, subscribe, or leave a review on your favorite podcasting listening apparatus. You can support the podcast by going to TearsofEden.org/support To get in touch with us please email tearsofeden.org@gmail.com Follow on Instagram @uncertainpodcast

Second Wave Fundamentalism is a term acknowledging that we can leave fundamentalist spaces, but they do not always leave us. How do we recognize when we are creating the same pattern—and the same spaces—we tried to leave behind? And how do we care for ourselves, and our own trauma healing, so we don’t migrate toward, and recreate, the unsafe communities we fought so hard to escape? Dr. Laura Anderson is the cofounder of the Religious Trauma Institute, and founder of Center for Trauma Resolution and Recovery she’s a licensed therapist, and professor of psychology. Instagram//Facebook: @drlauraeanderson REGISTER FOR RETREATCON Uncertain is a podcast of  Tears of Eden, a community and resource for those in the aftermath of Spiritual Abuse. If you’re enjoying this podcast, please take a moment to like, subscribe, or leave a review on your favorite podcasting listening apparatus. You can support the podcast by going to TearsofEden.org/support To get in touch with us please email tearsofeden.org@gmail.com Follow on Instagram @uncertainpodcast