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ABOUT ANATOLIY KOROLENKO Anatoliy’s LinkedIn profile: https://www.linkedin.com/in/anatoliykorolenko/ BIO: Anatoliy Korolenko is a retail real estate and development executive with more than a decade of experience leading growth, portfolio strategy, construction, and facilities for some of the world’s most recognized consumer brands. Currently leading Real Estate and Development for Nespresso USA, Anatoliy is responsible for shaping the brand’s U.S. retail footprint—from market strategy and site selection through lease negotiations, design, construction, and ongoing portfolio optimization.  His work combines consumer and market analytics with real estate economics to identify growth opportunities and translate brand strategy into high-performing physical retail environments. Prior to Nespresso, Anatoliy held a senior development and facilities leadership role with EssilorLuxottica, supporting a large multi-brand retail portfolio that included Lens Crafters, Sunglass Hut, and Ray-Ban. Throughout his career, he has focused on the intersection of real estate, customer experience, and business performance—building strategies that treat physical retail not simply as a distribution channel, but as an important driver of customer acquisition, brand engagement, and long-term growth. *                     *                          *                          * SHOW INTRO: Welcome to Episode 92 of the NXTLVL Experience Design podcast and my conversation with Anatoliy Korolenko – who leads the Real Estate and Development for Nespresso USA. In every episode we follow our catch phrase about having “Dynamic Dialogues About DATA: Design, Architecture, Technology and the Arts.” And as we continue on this journey, we’ll continue to invite guests on our journey that are thought provoking futuris ts, AI technology mavens, retailers, international hotel design executives as well as designers and architects of brand experience places. We’ll talk with authors and people focused on wellness and sustainable design practices as well as neuroscientists who will continue to help us look at the built environment and the connections between our mind-body and the built world around us. If you like what you hear on the NXTLVL Experience Design show, make sure to subscribe, like, comment and share with colleagues, friends and family. The NXTLVL Experience Design podcast is always grateful for the support of VMSD magazine. VMSD brings us, in the brand experience world, the International Retail Design Conference. I think the IRDC is one of the best retail design conferences that there is bringing together the world of retailers, brands and experience place makers every year for two days of engaging conversations and pushing us to keep on talking about what makes retailing relevant. You will find the archive of the NXTLVL Experience Design podcast on VMSD.com. Thanks also goes to Shop Association the only global retail trade association dedicated to elevating the in-store experience. SHOP Association represents companies and affiliates from 25 countries and brings value to their members through research, networking, education, events and awards. Check then out on SHOPAssociation.org Today, EPISODE 92… I talk with Anatoliy Korolenko who leads Real Estate and Development for Nespresso USA … This conversation is effectively based on a tour that we took of the Nespresso flagship store on 5th Ave. at the corner of 16th St. in New York. We cover a lot of ground about how a store is laid out how elements of storytelling merchandising experience and design and construction all come together to make memorable moments of relevant engagement. We’ll get into all of that in a minute but first a few thoughts… I've been working in the world of retail design for more than 30 years and there are subjects that have been foundational to my early learning from my first employer Joe Weishar at New Vision Studios, which I've talked about before in previous episodes. Not often do you find most of them beautifully executed in one store. But that was exactly my impression when getting a tour of the Nespresso store on 5th Ave. Corner of 16th St. in New York. Nespresso was founded in 1986 as a Nestlé subsidiary after employee Eric Favre invented a single-serve pressurized coffee system inspired by a popular Roman espresso bar. Favre visited Rome's Sant'Eustachio café and observed how intermittent water pumping created superior aeration and crema, leading him to design a capsule-based extraction prototype. 1986 Launch: Nespresso S.A. was officially founded, rolling out its first machine (the C-100) and four coffee blends targeting offices in Switzerland, Japan, and Italy with limited initial success… A Couple decades later Nespresso was a global coffee powerhouse and the company opened its first standalone boutique in Paris in 2000 and later enlisted actor George Clooney as the face of the brand in 2006 to drive global luxury appeal. Now it's great to have someone who is a famous face to help promote a brand but no matter what happens in terms of marketing and advertising if the store doesn't deliver on expectations you're still likely gonna be in trouble in growing your retail footprint. Nespresso sells a considerable amount of their product online but in order to drive brand love a deeper more physical experience is needed and that means store Has to deliver something special if people are making the effort to get off their couch and get on those sales floor. Well-considered physical touchpoints become critical in terms of how the customer journey unfolds and the experience that customers engage in and later talk about after visiting the physical location. People who work there need to be experts since customers are better informed now than they have ever been after deep searches on line . So when customers come in the associate needs to know more and be a welcoming host who acts as a bit of a stage manger who facilitates how the theatre of the store will unfold. Purpose of retail has moved beyond the simple acquisition of goods or services. Retail stores have acted as a place to exchange stories to learn about the news of the day and connect to brands whose ideological orientations you align with. We've clearly moved from a place where retail was transactional into an experience based economy and now as Joe Pine would put it, we have moved into a place call the Transformation Economy. Here, customers expect so much more than just the product or service they're paying for. Experiences need to leave customers with a sense of a transformation. Deeper, more lasting experiences customers engage in while in stores and the memories they leave with are not just a fun story to share, though that is often done too, but a way of seeing themselves perhaps in the world and in relation to that experience that deeply matter. And while it is true that an increasing volume of business is done online, getting a cardboard box delivered to your front door the next day just can't compare to the aroma of delicious coffee in an environment that delights your other senses as well. Sure, if you're interested in a commodity purchase, use an online resource and welcome the cardboard box. On the other hand if you're seeking something more, going to the store cannot be replaced. Of course, once you arrive at the store one of the key components will be interaction with other humans. An AI bot interaction through an online purchase that offers up more opportunities for other things to buy because other people also bought them too, is very different than being greeted with a smile by an expert who knows the world of their brand at both the customer and product level. If I've showed up at the store I'm looking for something more and I will suggest that it's the human interaction you get face-to-face with an sales associate that is one of the key drivers to great brand experiences in retail places. I've often thought of retail stores and hotels like theater performances. A stage with performers but with no audience is called a rehearsal and a theater with no performers is call an intermission. When performers and patrons come together in a place, magic happens. The energy changes and the exchange is much deeper. Actors live on audience feedback and audience members expect performers to bring them into an imagined world were time shifts and for that 2 hour block they are someplace else. The sales associate and customer interaction works much the same way the store then simply as a stage set for the stars of the show customers sales associates and let us not forget products. Everything you do inside the store is geared towards telling the story supporting the actors and audience members and bringing them along on the story that unfolds in chapters or acts. So it's not surprising when you walk into a store like the Nespresso flagship on 5th Ave. at the corner of 16th St. in New York, that the story of Nespresso so comprehensively and confidently comes alive. From interaction stations that are very analog where you can experience the aroma of various coffees from around the world and if you like, free of charge, create your own coffee drink pour it into real glassware that when held in your hand creates a sense of comfort and familiarity. Sure the Nespresso store cells great coffee in a number of variations but the flagship store does much more than that. It welcomes you into a world of surprise and delight where customers interact with both analog and digital touchpoints; where they learn about the making of coffee and Nespresso’s extraordinary sustainability program and how their capsules are recycled. And then it takes you off of the main selling floor and allows you to descend the digitally enrobed case staircase walking “into the poor” to a members lounge that is not only for members… it is for everyone. This place is

ABOUT HEIDIMARIE KRIZ Heidemarie’s profile: linkedin.com/in/heidemarie-kriz-0772177 Websites: positiveaffairs.com (Company) krizh.com (Company) pointofsale.doctor (Company) Phone: +43 676 3026618 (Work) Address: Kohlmarkt 8-101010 Vienna I Austria Email: [email protected] AKTUELLER RETAIL NEWSFLASH PODCAST >>> https://fanlink.tv/rnfp13022026 Latest Press releases KRIZH in Forbes Magazine Slovakia :  https://www.forbes.sk/super-retail-club-prichadza-na-slovensko-prvykrat-nan-zavita-expertka-heidemarie-kriz/ BIO: Heidemarie Kriz is among the pioneers who recognized the multi-sensory dimension of retail long before it became a trend. With almost 30 years of international experience, she merges with architecture, design, and commerce to create environments that are both emotionally engaging and commercially effective. She has directed more than 200 retail projects across Europe and the MENA region for global brands such as Nike, Apple, and Levi’s. Her Vienna-based studio KRIZH® stands for brand-focused spatial design and holistic retail strategy — from concept development and customer journey mapping to sensory engagement and visual merchandising. Acting as a one-stop shop for retail innovation, her work transforms spaces into immersive brand experiences that engage all five senses and build lasting customer relationships. Before founding her studio, Heidemarie held senior roles at international retail brands, where she developed store concepts rolled out across Europe. (more than 200) Her portfolio extends beyond retail to hospitality and office design — experience that enables her to identify synergies and develop solutions that transcend industry boundaries. In 2020, she founded Point of Sale Doctor®, a hybrid consulting platform optimizing retail spaces both in-store and online. With her rapid analysis method, she provides precise, actionable input-from layout to product presentation- achieving measurable sales growth for her clients. Recognized as a Top Retail Expert 2025 & 2026 by RETHINK Retail in New York City, Heidi is a published author (Stores + Shops, Across Magazine, Deutscher Laden-bauverband, Instore Slovakia, retailmagazin.sk..), speaker at conferences, universities and brands, and since 2021 co-host of the Retail News Flash Podcast. Since 2012, she has curated immersive retail trend tours in cities such as Vienna, Venice, Nice, and New York. Holding a Master of Science in Architecture from Graz University of Technology (she is also Civil engineer in architecture) and additional certifications in Marketing & Sales as well as International Project Management, she continues to shape the future of retail as a holistic sensory experience — seamlessly connecting the analog and digital worlds. Her unique approach with Point of Sale Doctor® combines speed, intuition, and deep expertise. Within minutes, she can evaluate a shop concept and identify potential improvement. Known for her “truffle pig nose,” she instinctively discovers exceptional stores wherever she goes. By linking retail with hospitality, museums, and hotels, she creates environments that speak to all senses and leaves a lasting impress *                     *                          *                          * ABOUT DAVID KEPRON: LinkedIn Profile: linkedin.com/in/david-kepron-9a1582b Websites:  https://www.davidkepron.com    (personal website) vmsd.com/taxonomy/term/8645  (Blog) Email: [email protected] Personal Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/davidkepron/ NXTLVL Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/nxtlvl_experience_design/ Bio: David Kepron is a multifaceted creative professional with a deep curiosity to understand ‘why’, ‘what’s now’ and ‘what’s next’. He brings together his background as an architect, artist, educator, author, podcast host and builder to the making of meaningful and empathically-focused, community-centric customer connections at brand experience places around the globe.  David is the Retail Studio Principle at Little Diversified Architectural Consulting (Little) and a former VP - Global Design Strategies at Marriott International. While at Marriott, his focus was on the creation of compelling customer experiences within Marriott’s “Premium Distinctive” segment which included: Westin, Renaissance, Le Meridien, Autograph Collection, Tribute Portfolio, Design Hotels and Gaylord hotels.  In 2020 Kepron founded NXTLVL Experience Design, a strategy and design consultancy, where he combines his multidisciplinary approach to the creation of relevant brand engagements with his passion for social and cultural anthropology, neuroscience and emerging digital technologies.  As a frequently requested international speaker at corporate events and international conferences focusing on CX, digital transformation, retail, hospitality, emerging technology, David shares his expertise on subjects ranging from consumer behaviors and trends, brain science and buying behavior, store design and visual merchandising, hotel design and strategy as well as creativity and innovation. In his talks, David shares visionary ideas on how brand strategy, brain science and emerging technologies are changing guest expectations about relationships they want to have with brands and how companies can remain relevant in a digitally enabled marketplace.  David currently shares his experience and insight on various industry boards including: VMSD magazine’s Editorial Advisory Board, the Interactive Customer Experience Association, Sign Research Foundation’s Program Committee as well as the Center For Retail Transformation at George Mason University. He has held teaching positions at New York’s Fashion Institute of Technology (F.I.T.), the Department of Architecture & Interior Design of Drexel University in Philadelphia, the Laboratory Institute of Merchandising (L.I.M.) in New York, the International Academy of Merchandising and Design in Montreal and he served as the Director of the Visual Merchandising Department at LaSalle International Fashion School (L.I.F.S.) in Singapore.   In 2014 Kepron published his first book titled: “Retail (r)Evolution: Why Creating Right-Brain Stores Will Shape the Future of Shopping in a Digitally Driven World” and he is currently working on his second book to be published soon The NXTLVL Experience Design podcast is presented by VMSD magazine and Smartwork Media. It is hosted and executive produced by David Kepron. Our original music and audio production is by Kano Sound. The content of this podcast is copywrite to David Kepron and NXTLVL Experience Design. Any publication or rebroadcast of the content is prohibited without the expressed written consent of David Kepron and NXTLVL Experience Design. Make sure to tune in for more NXTLVL “Dialogues on DATA: Design Architecture Technology and the Arts” wherever you find your favorite podcasts and make sure to visit vmsd.com and look for the tab for the NXTLVL Experience Design podcast there too.

About Christian Giordano: Christian's LinkedIn profile: linkedin.com/in/cdgiordano Website manciniduffy.com (Company) theantiarchitect.com (Personal) Christian's Bio: Christian Giordano is President and Co-Owner of Mancini, a110-year-old national design firm, and the host of The Anti-Architect Podcast.  A trailblazer in the architecture and design space, Christian is redefining the industry by integrating cutting-edge technology and entrepreneurial thinking into a traditionally slow-to-evolve field.  Christian’s journey includes studying under the iconic Frank Gehry at UCLA, an experience that profoundly influenced his groundbreaking approach to design and leadership.  As a visionary in the field, Christian treats his century-old firm like a startup, drawing inspiration from the forward-thinking companies Mancini works with, such as Google, Peloton, Disney, and Netflix. His work explores how emerging technologies - AI, automation, and immersive digital tools - are transforming the built world.  Beyond pioneering innovation in design, Christian is dedicated to mentoring the next generation, inspiring them to push the boundaries of what’s possible in architecture and technology. SHOW INTRO: "...Today, EPISODE 90… I talk with Christian Giordano President and Co-Owner of Mancini who is also the host of The Anti-Architect Podcast – an intriguing name for a pod especially one hosted by an architect and leader of an architecture firm.  The interesting thing about the podcast title, is that I think it aptly describes Christian’s personal take on the practice of architecture and leading a group of creative souls into a new future paradigm one and where technology and social media is reshaping engagement in a corporate workplace and the output of their creative endeavors in the built environment. We’ll get into all of that in a minute but first a few thoughts…" *                     *                          *                          * ABOUT DAVID KEPRON: LinkedIn Profile: linkedin.com/in/david-kepron-9a1582b Websites:  https://www.davidkepron.com    (personal website) vmsd.com/taxonomy/term/8645  (Blog) Email: [email protected] Personal Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/davidkepron/ NXTLVL Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/nxtlvl_experience_design/ Bio: David Kepron is a multifaceted creative professional with a deep curiosity to understand ‘why’, ‘what’s now’ and ‘what’s next’. He brings together his background as an architect, artist, educator, author, podcast host and builder to the making of meaningful and empathically-focused, community-centric customer connections at brand experience places around the globe.  David is the Retail Studio Principle at Little Diversified Architectural Consulting (Little) and a former VP - Global Design Strategies at Marriott International. While at Marriott, his focus was on the creation of compelling customer experiences within Marriott’s “Premium Distinctive” segment which included: Westin, Renaissance, Le Meridien, Autograph Collection, Tribute Portfolio, Design Hotels and Gaylord hotels.  In 2020 Kepron founded NXTLVL Experience Design, a strategy and design consultancy, where he combines his multidisciplinary approach to the creation of relevant brand engagements with his passion for social and cultural anthropology, neuroscience and emerging digital technologies.  As a frequently requested international speaker at corporate events and international conferences focusing on CX, digital transformation, retail, hospitality, emerging technology, David shares his expertise on subjects ranging from consumer behaviors and trends, brain science and buying behavior, store design and visual merchandising, hotel design and strategy as well as creativity and innovation. In his talks, David shares visionary ideas on how brand strategy, brain science and emerging technologies are changing guest expectations about relationships they want to have with brands and how companies can remain relevant in a digitally enabled marketplace.  David currently shares his experience and insight on various industry boards including: VMSD magazine’s Editorial Advisory Board, the Interactive Customer Experience Association, Sign Research Foundation’s Program Committee as well as the Center For Retail Transformation at George Mason University. He has held teaching positions at New York’s Fashion Institute of Technology (F.I.T.), the Department of Architecture & Interior Design of Drexel University in Philadelphia, the Laboratory Institute of Merchandising (L.I.M.) in New York, the International Academy of Merchandising and Design in Montreal and he served as the Director of the Visual Merchandising Department at LaSalle International Fashion School (L.I.F.S.) in Singapore.   In 2014 Kepron published his first book titled: “Retail (r)Evolution: Why Creating Right-Brain Stores Will Shape the Future of Shopping in a Digitally Driven World” and he is currently working on his second book to be published soon.  I caught up with Bryan at the SHOP Marketplace event in Charlotte and chatted about his focus on shaping what comes next in digital signage and experiential design.   The NXTLVL Experience Design podcast is presented by VMSD magazine and Smartwork Media. It is hosted and executive produced by David Kepron. Our original music and audio production is by Kano Sound.  The content of this podcast is copywrite to David Kepron and NXTLVL Experience Design. Any publication or rebroadcast of the content is prohibited without the expressed written consent of David Kepron and NXTLVL Experience Design. Make sure to tune in for more NXTLVL “Dialogues on DATA: Design Architecture Technology and the Arts” wherever you find your favorite podcasts and make sure to visit vmsd.com and look for the tab for the NXTLVL Experience Design podcast there too. The NXTLVL Experience Design podcast is presented by VMSD magazine and Smartwork Media. It is hosted and executive produced by David Kepron. Our original music and audio production is by Kano Sound. The content of this podcast is copywrite to David Kepron and NXTLVL Experience Design. Any publication or rebroadcast of the content is prohibited without the expressed written consent of David Kepron and NXTLVL Experience Design. Make sure to tune in for more NXTLVL “Dialogues on DATA: Design Architecture Technology and the Arts” wherever you find your favorite podcasts and make sure to visit vmsd.com and look for the tab for the NXTLVL Experience Design podcast there too.

About Thomas: Thomas’ LinkedIn profile: linkedin.com/in/thomas-dijkman Website: qanda.nl (Company), https://www.ebeltoftgroup.com  Phone: +31652656347 (Work) Email: [email protected] Thomas' Bio: Thomas Dijkman is a Senior Retail Consultant at Q&A Retail, a Netherlands-based retail consultancy. He is Co-chair of the “Young Ebeltoft” initiative, a global collective of next-generation retail thinkers within the Ebeltoft Group.  Thomas specializes in translating insights, market expertise, and creativity into practical solutions that help leading retailers adapt and thrive in a fast-changing retail environment. He has worked with retailers such as SPAR, Action, Nexeye, and A.S. Watson, advising on strategy, positioning, consumer engagement, and store and format optimization.  With a no-nonsense, data-driven approach, he supports retailers in strengthening their concepts and improving performance across channels. Through his focus on generational insights, Thomas helps retailers better understand what young consumers want and how to turn those insights into action. SHOW INTRO: Today, EPISODE 89… I talk with Thomas Dijkman a Gen Z researcher, which is to say that he is part of Gen Z at 28 years old, who was a speaker at Euroshop 2026. Thomas and the company he work with called Q&A Retail, had just published research on Gen Alpha, which was chock full of insights on this emerging generation of global consumers. We’ll get into all of that in a minute but first a few thoughts… *                     *                          *                          * ABOUT DAVID KEPRON: LinkedIn Profile: linkedin.com/in/david-kepron-9a1582b Websites:  https://www.davidkepron.com    (personal website) vmsd.com/taxonomy/term/8645  (Blog) Email: [email protected] Personal Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/davidkepron/ NXTLVL Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/nxtlvl_experience_design/ Bio: David Kepron is a multifaceted creative professional with a deep curiosity to understand ‘why’, ‘what’s now’ and ‘what’s next’. He brings together his background as an architect, artist, educator, author, podcast host and builder to the making of meaningful and empathically-focused, community-centric customer connections at brand experience places around the globe.  David is a former VP - Global Design Strategies at Marriott International. While at Marriott, his focus was on the creation of compelling customer experiences within Marriott’s “Premium Distinctive” segment which included: Westin, Renaissance, Le Meridien, Autograph Collection, Tribute Portfolio, Design Hotels and Gaylord hotels.  In 2020 Kepron founded NXTLVL Experience Design, a strategy and design consultancy, where he combines his multidisciplinary approach to the creation of relevant brand engagements with his passion for social and cultural anthropology, neuroscience and emerging digital technologies.  As a frequently requested international speaker at corporate events and international conferences focusing on CX, digital transformation, retail, hospitality, emerging technology, David shares his expertise on subjects ranging from consumer behaviors and trends, brain science and buying behavior, store design and visual merchandising, hotel design and strategy as well as creativity and innovation. In his talks, David shares visionary ideas on how brand strategy, brain science and emerging technologies are changing guest expectations about relationships they want to have with brands and how companies can remain relevant in a digitally enabled marketplace.  David currently shares his experience and insight on various industry boards including: VMSD magazine’s Editorial Advisory Board, the Interactive Customer Experience Association, Sign Research Foundation’s Program Committee as well as the Center For Retail Transformation at George Mason University. He has held teaching positions at New York’s Fashion Institute of Technology (F.I.T.), the Department of Architecture & Interior Design of Drexel University in Philadelphia, the Laboratory Institute of Merchandising (L.I.M.) in New York, the International Academy of Merchandising and Design in Montreal and he served as the Director of the Visual Merchandising Department at LaSalle International Fashion School (L.I.F.S.) in Singapore.   In 2014 Kepron published his first book titled: “Retail (r)Evolution: Why Creating Right-Brain Stores Will Shape the Future of Shopping in a Digitally Driven World” and he is currently working on his second book to be published soon.  I caught up with Bryan at the SHOP Marketplace event in Charlotte and chatted about his focus on shaping what comes next in digital signage and experiential design.   The NXTLVL Experience Design podcast is presented by VMSD magazine and Smartwork Media. It is hosted and executive produced by David Kepron. Our original music and audio production is by Kano Sound. The content of this podcast is copywrite to David Kepron and NXTLVL Experience Design. Any publication or rebroadcast of the content is prohibited without the expressed written consent of David Kepron and NXTLVL Experience Design. Make sure to tune in for more NXTLVL “Dialogues on DATA: Design Architecture Technology and the Arts” wherever you find your favorite podcasts and make sure to visit vmsd.com and look for the tab for the NXTLVL Experience Design podcast there too.

About Simon Ong: LinkedIn profile: https://www.linkedin.com/in/simon-ong-89095b12/ Website: https://kingsmen-int.com email: [email protected] Bio: Kingsmen Creatives / Singapore / Deputy Chairman / Co-founder Simon Ong oversees the strategic planning and development, as well as the creative and brand standards, of Kingsmen, a leading communication design and production group with 18 offices spanning the Asia Pacific region and North America. One of the Group’s two founders, he has significantly contributed to its growth.  Simon is actively serving in the creative industry and is currently an honorary advisor to the Society of Interior Designers Singapore and a member of Singapore Interior Design Accreditation Council. He served as the Chairman of the design sector of Singapore Workforce Development Agency, and a board member of SHOP!, a leading Association of Retail Environments in USA. In 2019, he was inducted into the SHOP! Hall of Fame in recognition of his significant contributions to the industry. Most recently, he received the Lifetime Achievement Award from the Society of Interior Designers Singapore for his substantial contributions to the design industry.  An ardent advocate of education, Simon currently serves as a board director of Nanyang Academy of Fine Arts. He served as a member of the Advisory Board to the School of Design & Environment at the National University of Singapore (NUS) and Temasek Polytechnic School of Design, and a member of the Design Education Review Committee, Singapore (DERC). He was the former Chairman of the School Advisory Board of Cedar Girls’ Secondary School, and Vice-Chairman of the Potong-Pasir CC Management Committee.  Simon graduated with a Master’s Degree in Design from the University of New South Wales, Australia, and a Master of Business Administration from the University of South Australia. SHOW INTRO: Welcome to Episode 88! of the NXTLVL Experience Design podcast and my conversation with Simon Ong the Deputy Chairman & Co-founder of Kingsmen Creatives in Singapore.. *                            *                                  *                                  * As we come to a different phase of our professional life you get to thinking back over the years that you invested in growing something that it was hard but it was also fun it was challenging and it was sometimes desperate sometimes you felt elation sometimes you worried about how we're going to pay the next bill there's a cycle of experience in 50 years of growing a company like that is worth reflecting on and saying ‘you know we have had big wins and we’ve made mistakes we've learned a lot about ourselves and how to grow a business - how to remain relevant. I think the relevancy issue means having a sense of empathy tapping into the zeitgeist around you and saying i need to relate to that because if i don't I’ll become irrelevant and i can't i can't communicate The challenge is put to new leaders and old to listen, be introspective, be flexible to adjust to the sometimes overwhelming sea of change between now and next.  You hopefully get better at saying both been there done that and been there not doing that anymore period. When early in my retail design career I had, I guess I would call her a mentor, Jackie Glanz the president of a store fixture manufacturing company called MG Concepts and I recall her drilling into me some core lessons about business and marketing, namely  respond to the e-mail or phone call - immediately don't wait because everybody's time is valuable not just yours and it's a sign of respect of the other individual to get back to them right away never burn a bridge especially in the context of a retail community that once you reach a certain level everybody knows everybody else and word travels fast. Maintain your industry friendships even when they are halfway around the world. Because you just never know when you're going to come into a situation where reaching out will make the difference between growth and stagnation, or success and failure or a door opening up or door being closed. It could be with some of those relationships that you never actually do business with them with the mutual support and the benefit of connection extends beyond a project or profit in the physical sense but sometimes is more valuable in a sense of community already perhaps spiritual way the people along your path make a difference. I have often shared with people that I certainly like working on projects but in the end it's relationships that I value most. I'm sure all of us have worked on what we would presume to be great projects but the relationship chemistry just didn't work and it made what was presumed to be wonderful more woeful.  And the reverse… where projects were of average scope or prestige and ended up being prized because of the people there was a sense of community, a shared responsibility, a willingness to extend beyond what was asked for and to bring something new to the world even though it wouldn't end up winning a prize in design competition or being on the cover of a trade publication. You stayed doing one thing long enough and you actively engage in the community of your profession working with other leaders to define ideas or policies or grow an emerging cohort of young designers and architects into roles you also begin to have in a certain sense your own brand which is very much about what you believe in not necessarily what the things you bring into the world look like and certainly not a logo. Beyond the image is the intention, the ideological orientations that drive what you do every day that ultimately give meaning to the things that you focus your time on and that you hope other people align with.  Having a point of view that drives your decision-making matters.  And for the individual, as well as large international mega brands, it is important that what you do and what you say are aligned. When these two things are at odds, it's not hard to see the disconnect, and trust and credibility are critical foundational elements to long term relationships Whether those relationships are personal between you and your work colleagues or between you and your clients. In a crowded marketplace where many professional firms offer the same services and you might say are equally as good at providing them what is the differentiating factor between a client choosing you over the next guy? Sometimes, it's simply a feeling a feeling about how the relationship might progress through the phases of a project is the best way to know if the project will be successful... And this is where we bring in my guest on this episode Simon Ong… Simon Ong is the Deputy Chairman & Co-founder of Kingsmen Creatives in Singapore He oversees the strategic planning and development, as well as the creative and brand standards, of Kingsmen, a leading communication design and production group with 18 offices spanning the Asia Pacific region and North America.   After 50 years in the experience design industry, Simon is still actively engaging and is currently an honorary advisor to the Society of Interior Designers Singapore and a member of Singapore Interior Design Accreditation Council.  He served as the Chairman of the design sector of Singapore Workforce Development Agency, and a board member of SHOP!, a leading Association of Retail Environments in USA.  In 2019, he was inducted into the SHOP! Hall of Fame in recognition of his significant contributions to the industry.  Most recently, he received the Lifetime Achievement Award from the Society of Interior Designers Singapore for his substantial contributions to the design industry. An ardent advocate of education, Simon currently serves on multiple academic helping to shape the curriculum of young designers entering into the Experience design industry. I got together with Simon at Euroshop in Dusselddorf, Germany and sat down for a conversation about his career path, growing a business, design thinking and more. I am grateful to having Simon both share his experience and to have known him for half of his 50 years in the business. The NXTLVL Experience Design podcast is presented by VMSD magazine and Smartwork Media. It is hosted and executive produced by David Kepron. Our original music and audio production is by Kano Sound. The content of this podcast is copywrite to David Kepron and NXTLVL Experience Design. Any publication or rebroadcast of the content is prohibited without the expressed written consent of David Kepron and NXTLVL Experience Design. Make sure to tune in for more NXTLVL “Dialogues on DATA: Design Architecture Technology and the Arts” wherever you find your favorite podcasts and make sure to visit vmsd.com and look for the tab for the NXTLVL Experience Design podcast there too.

ABOUT NAOMI CLARE CRELLIN:Naomi Clare’s LinkedIn profile: linkedin.com/in/naomi-clare-crellin Websites: storycraft.education (Company) belongingplaybook.com (Company) storycraftlab.com (Company) Email: [email protected] BIO: Naomi Clare Crellin is a visionary leader who excels in transforming intent and insights into actionable, accessible strategies.  As the Founder and CEO of Storycraft Lab, she specializes in refining big ideas and concepts into meaningful and measurable experiences. Naomi is adept at mapping strategic processes that guide both teams and clients from development through delivery, helping to define goals, refine messages, and measure the impact of the stories crafted.  Her expertise lies at the intersection of spatial experience and messaging, having collaborated with a diverse range of organizations including Microsoft, Motorola, Bloomberg, the IFC, the Smithsonian, the Human Rights Campaign, and many more. Beyond her work at Storycraft Lab, Naomi has served as an adjunct faculty member, bringing her passion for education into the classroom. She partners with organizations dedicated to making the world a better place, inspiring students to harness their creativity and curiosity. As an empowering educator and experience strategist, Naomi is committed to helping others succeed.  She finds immense joy in co-creating with teams, generating engagement, and telling stories through interactions. Her dedication to collaboration and innovation is at the heart of her work, and she loves the impact she and her teams create together.  Naomi Clare Crellin is not just a leader but a catalyst for change, fostering an environment where ideas flourish, and meaningful experiences are crafted.' SHOW INTRO: Welcome to Episode 87! of the NXTLVL Experience Design podcast… In every episode we follow our catch phrase of having “Dynamic Dialogues About DATA: Design, Architecture, Technology and the Arts.”  And as we continue on this journey, we’ll continue to invite guests on our journey that are thought provoking futurists, AI technology mavens, retailers, international hotel design executives as well as designers and architects of brand experience places. We’ll talk with authors and people focused on wellness and sustainable design practices as well as neuroscientists who will continue to help us look at the built environment and the connections between our mind-body and the built world around us. If you like what you hear on the NXTLVL Experience Design show, make sure to subscribe, like, comment and share with colleagues, friends and family. The NXTLVL Experience Design podcast is always grateful for the support of VMSD magazine. VMSD brings us, in the brand experience world, the International Retail Design Conference. I think the IRDC is one of the best retail design conferences that there is bringing together the world of retailers, brands and experience place makers every year for two days of engaging conversations and pushing us to keep on talking about what makes retailing relevant.  You will find the archive of the NXTLVL Experience Design podcast on VMSD.com. Thanks also goes to Shop Association the only global retail trade association dedicated to elevating the in-store experience.  SHOP Association represents companies and affiliates from 25 countries and brings value to their members through research, networking, education, events and awards. Check then out on SHOPAssociation.org  Today, EPISODE 87… I talk with Naomi Claire Crellin is a visionary leader who excels in transforming intent and insights into actionable, accessible strategies. Her work uses story as a vector towards belonging.  Naomi believes that a well-told story builds trust and genuine peer-to-peer connection in audience advocacy. This in turn bolsters personal growth and psychological safety; encouraging participants to take calculated risks towards innovation. We’ll get into all of that in a minute but first a few thoughts...   ABOUT DAVID KEPRON: LinkedIn Profile: linkedin.com/in/david-kepron-9a1582b Websites:  https://www.davidkepron.com    (personal website) vmsd.com/taxonomy/term/8645  (Blog) Email: [email protected] Personal Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/davidkepron/ Bio: David Kepron the Retail Studio Principal for the architecture and design firm Little (https://www.littleonline.com). He is a multifaceted creative professional with a deep curiosity to understand ‘why’, ‘what’s now’ and ‘what’s next’. He brings together his background as an architect, artist, educator, author, podcast host and builder to the making of meaningful and empathically-focused, community-centric customer connections at brand experience places around the globe.  David is a former VP - Global Design Strategies at Marriott International. While at Marriott, his focus was on the creation of compelling customer experiences within Marriott’s “Premium Distinctive” segment which included: Westin, Renaissance, Le Meridien, Autograph Collection, Tribute Portfolio, Design Hotels and Gaylord hotels.  In 2020 Kepron founded NXTLVL Experience Design, a strategy and design consultancy, where he combines his multidisciplinary approach to the creation of relevant brand engagements with his passion for social and cultural anthropology, neuroscience and emerging digital technologies.  As a frequently requested international speaker at corporate events and international conferences focusing on CX, digital transformation, retail, hospitality, emerging technology, David shares his expertise on subjects ranging from consumer behaviors and trends, brain science and buying behavior, store design and visual merchandising, hotel design and strategy as well as creativity and innovation. In his talks, David shares visionary ideas on how brand strategy, brain science and emerging technologies are changing guest expectations about relationships they want to have with brands and how companies can remain relevant in a digitally enabled marketplace.  David currently shares his experience and insight on various industry boards including: VMSD magazine’s Editorial Advisory Board, the Interactive Customer Experience Association, Sign Research Foundation’s Program Committee as well as the Center For Retail Transformation at George Mason University. He has held teaching positions at New York’s Fashion Institute of Technology (F.I.T.), the Department of Architecture & Interior Design of Drexel University in Philadelphia, the Laboratory Institute of Merchandising (L.I.M.) in New York, the International Academy of Merchandising and Design in Montreal and he served as the Director of the Visual Merchandising Department at LaSalle International Fashion School (L.I.F.S.) in Singapore.   In 2014 Kepron published his first book titled: “Retail (r)Evolution: Why Creating Right-Brain Stores Will Shape the Future of Shopping in a Digitally Driven World” and he is currently working on his second book to be published soon.      The NXTLVL Experience Design podcast is presented by VMSD magazine and Smartwork Media. It is hosted and executive produced by David Kepron. Our original music and audio production is by Kano Sound. The content of this podcast is copywrite to David Kepron and NXTLVL Experience Design. Any publication or rebroadcast of the content is prohibited without the expressed written consent of David Kepron and NXTLVL Experience Design. Make sure to tune in for more NXTLVL “Dialogues on DATA: Design Architecture Technology and the Arts” wherever you find your favorite podcasts and make sure to visit vmsd.com and look for the tab for the NXTLVL Experience Design podcast there too.

ABOUT JOE PINE: Joe’s LinkedIn profile; linkedin.com/in/joepine Websites: strategichorizons.com (Blog) StrategicHorizons.com (Company) strategichorizons.com (Personal) SHOW INTRO: Today, EPISODE 86… I talk with Joe Pine Joe Pine, an internationally acclaimed author, speaker, and management advisor to Fortune 500 companies and entrepreneurial start-ups alike... *                     *                          *                          * I’ve been in the world of retail place-making for a few decades. 3 would qualify as ‘a few’ I guess. I took a detour for a few years in the late 20-teens, shifting from retail design into the play space of hospitality – a wonderful diversion. The transition was transformative to be sure. I got to re-imagine what I knew about customer experience place making in terms of retail stores and turn my lens towards another fascination – hotels. The interesting thing that emerged was the recognition that in the world of retail everyone, brands, and retail designers and architects alike, were all going on about experience.  Now this in and of itself was curious because I’d been designing stores for a couple decades, and I couldn’t recall one client who had ever come to the game and said – ‘hey lets create a really miserable experience for our customers…’ ‘…Let’s make it hard to understand the assortment, hard to read the labels, bathe the product in bad lighting, have people walk the store not being able to find the thing they came in for, etc…’ Not one. Ironically though, while many clients never asked for that, we have all had the experience of that exactly being the case in many stores we go to. So no,… creating a bad experience was never the strategy. We retail designers always sought to create places where positive experience was key. The stuff was important to be sure, but the experience - the emotional residue of the retail interaction - was what was critically important. The stuff was supposed to deliver on what it purported to do, fit well, wear well, not break down, taste good, make you feel better, whatever… it was supposed to work. Otherwise why buy it? In some cases, the stuff just had to deliver on its practical, functional level, it didn’t need to give you more than that. It was a commodity that lived up to its promise. In other cases the stuff delivered on function but gave you oh so much more on an emotional, socio-cultural, psychological, spiritual, level… and all of that is about brand relevance and emotional impact of owning the thing – what it says about you. It’s like looking at the difference between a paper bag which you could get for about 5 cents and a Birkin bag for which you’d drop $50,000. They both provide the same functional use – they carry other stuff – I think we could make a pretty sound argument that that is true. But now the Birkin bag, well… it is supposed to offer you so much more about who you are, and what tribe you run with and a host of other non-tangibles that deeply connect us to a brand. Things way beyond function. And if the paper bag got wet and fell apart, well… you could be confident that for the price of the Birkin bag you could literally get a million replacements. The interesting thing about the stuff, or services, in retail places whether a commodity or something altogether magnificent and magical was that in either case we had to wrap it in positive experience. Mess up the experience and you’ve damaged the relationship. And repairing that rupture can take some time.  So, experience matters because the overt and subtle messaging that accompanies a shopping trip is important in fostering the long-term connection between a customer, product (or service) and the brand. The value proposition that determines my choice of one brand or retailer over another can’t just be they have lots of whatever it is at low prices. Price point and SKU count are not differentiators in an economy where you can get virtually anything on Amazon and have it delivered to your door and, as a brand or retailer, you are hoping to engage an emerging cohort of customers who craves more than getting a good deal. Now... the interesting thing about hospitality is that industry never really sold stuff. You didn’t take home the hotel room (at least not until more recently). You took in, and took home, experience - the body memory and emotional residue of being there. Your stuff, as it were, was a camera full of images and tchotchkes bought along the way during the trip that serve as a conduit or a link to, or a trigger of memories and emotional responses to experiences previously lived. You don’t bring home the hotel room, though you can now buy the Westin Heavenly bed and all of the linens – I have often wondered why, if I love the room décor, I can’t just walk around with my phone and point it at QR codes on everything and in a flash have the whole thing purchased and sent off to my home or apartment to redo the guest room – or my own bedroom for that matter? So…in the end retail sells stuff and wraps it in experience and hotels only sells experience though the industry is starting to get it that selling stuff may extend the brand experience beyond the hotel stay into your home…. Another interesting distinction between hospitality and retail is time. In the hospitality world you spend an overnight or maybe a few days immersed in the brand experience. In a retail store dwell time is often measured in seconds or minutes. This matters because it suggests that retail has to come on strong and be impactful quickly, capturing interest and trying to hold it. Everyone in retail knows the longer the stay the more conversion – larger basket size. Get customers to linger longer and their consideration of other things that were not on their primary shopping list begin to be a little more interesting.  There are environments that sell spectacle, the digitally immersive environments that we see emerging into the market like Moment Factory Lumina walks, meow wolf, the Monet digital experiences and things like Artechouse. While they are visual captivating, what is being sold is time in the form of 20-minute shows and 2 hour walks in a midnight forest. Time is the currency of experiences, and more companies should figure out how to charge for it. The both challenge and opportunity here is that in an economy that seems to be time starved because our attention is so fractured into micro moments,  time and attention are intricately intertwined.  And the rules of basic economics are at play suggesting that the more scarce something is the more expensive it becomes to acquire it. Customer acquisition when pedaling time becomes a costly endeavor. But then time seems to pass by without notice when experience is built on a good story. All good experiences engage the imagination in narrative. We are built for story more than logic though we have believed the at later is the dominant prowess of our species.  And stories directly effect our neurobiology in remarkable ways that allow the narrative to come alive in us. Remember, that we came to understand the world through dance, rhythm  and stories told around fires for millenia - even before language became a prime vehicle for expression. Our affinity for story is deeply woven into our very beings. So, all great experiences are built on great stories.  Narrative manifest become brand experience places.  These places for selling goods and services are like stage sets for stories to unfold.  I love the theatre and have always felt that retailers and brands should instruct their sales associates to act out their parts in the brand narrative and embrace the idea of theater as a customer interaction strategy.  I’ve always thought of the theatre as something into which I dove for a time, becoming full emersed in the story and emerged somehow changed. I learned something I didn’t know previously, saw the world from a different point of view, I would become one of the characters in the story and was, may be, in some way transformed.  Certainly during the performance, I was definitely in and out of body state – no longer me. The world beyond the story unfolding in front of me disappeared for a time. And so great experiences can also be transformative... The NXTLVL Experience Design podcast is presented by VMSD magazine and Smartwork Media. It is hosted and executive produced by David Kepron. Our original music and audio production is by Kano Sound. The content of this podcast is copywrite to David Kepron and NXTLVL Experience Design. Any publication or rebroadcast of the content is prohibited without the expressed written consent of David Kepron and NXTLVL Experience Design. Make sure to tune in for more NXTLVL “Dialogues on DATA: Design Architecture Technology and the Arts” wherever you find your favorite podcasts and make sure to visit vmsd.com and look for the tab for the NXTLVL Experience Design podcast there too.

ABOUT JOE BAER: Joe’s LinkedIn profile: linkedin.com/in/joe-baer-4479385 Websites: zengenius.com  visual911.com  Email: [email protected] BIO: Joe is the Co-Founder, Creative Director, and CEO of ZenGenius, Inc., an experiential design firm specializing in visual merchandising and event design. Headquartered in Columbus, Ohio, Joe brings over three decades of mastery in innovative leadership and creative direction to the design, visual merchandising and special events industries.  He has extensive knowledge of the customer journey from working in stores for decades and is a seasoned public speaker who has traveled the world to inspire and educate others through the art of visual merchandising, design and special events. Additionally, Joe has contributed his retail know-how to multiple publications, authored The Art of Visual Merchandising: Short North, and created one of my favorite events in the retail industry the Iron Merchant Challenge, a popular interactive visual merchandising competition held annually at the International Retail Design Conference.  Joe’s passion for the world of design is evident in his role as President of the PAVE Global leadership board - a 501(c)(3) charitable foundation with the mission to support, connect, and inspire the next generation of professionals in the retail design, visual merchandising, and consumer environments industry.  He also holds Advisory Board roles at Columbus College of Art and Design and VMSD Magazine.  SHOW INTRO Welcome to Episode 85! of the NXTLVL Experience Design podcast… In every episode we follow our catch phrase of having “Dynamic Dialogues About DATA: Design, Architecture, Technology and the Arts.”  And as we continue on this journey, we’ll have guests that are thought provoking futurists, AI technology mavens, retailers, international hotel design executives as well as designers and architects of brand experience places. We’ll talk with authors and people focused on wellness and sustainable design practices as well as neuroscientists who will continue to help us look at the built environment and the connections between our mind-body and the built world around us. If you like what you hear on the NXTLVL Experience Design show, make sure to subscribe, like, comment and share with colleagues, friends and family. The NXTLVL Experience Design podcast is always grateful for the support of VMSD magazine. VMSD brings us, in the brand experience world, the International Retail Design Conference. I think the IRDC is one of the best retail design conferences that there is bringing together the world of retailers, brands and experience place makers every year for two days of engaging conversations and pushing us to keep on talking about what makes retailing relevant.  You will find the archive of the NXTLVL Experience Design podcast on VMSD.com. Thanks also goes to Shop Association the only global retail trade association dedicated to elevating the in-store experience.  SHOP Association represents companies and affiliates from 25 countries and brings value to their members through research, networking, education, events and awards. Check then out on SHOPAssociation.org  Today, EPISODE 85… I talk with Joe Baer of Zen Genius an experiential design firm specializing in visual merchandising and event design. Joe had spent more than 3 decades working the in the retail industry bringing visual merchandising know-how to the creation of emotionally resonant branded places. Visual merchandising is allot more than simply making things look good in a store. It’s very much about 3D storytelling, sensory experiences, emotions and making places sing as Joe explains. We’ll get there in a minute but... first a few thoughts… *                     *                          *                          * Monique worked in the visual merchandising department she was the director there and I was the director in the interior design department  our two programs ran concurrently we shared some students across our programs but we seldom actually shared lunch And so it was slightly strange but intriguing that she invited me to have lunch with her across the street from the college at a little Thai place We sat down, talked about students and then - more as a throw away - she said “they want me to go to Singapore…” And I waited for the next sentence. “But I don't really want to go to Singapore.” she said. “I'd have to leave here. I'd have to leave my son who's thinking about collage a few years and I'd really just prefer to stay in Montreal.” And then there was a silence. “Singapore?!” I said. “I don't even know where Singapore is. That's in Southeast Asia, right? “ “yeah, it's like on the other side of the world.” she said. “Sounds exotic. I'd go for sure. Besides, I love Chinese food. I could eat it every day.” “Really?” she said . “Sure, why not? I'd love to go. I love the whole idea of adventure.”  “Well anyway,” she said, “I don’t know what they are going to do if I don’t go. It’s to be the Director of the visual merchandising program in an international fashion school and they’ve got no one else who could do it.”  “No seriously, I’d go. I mean I have no idea about what you do and… I’m a guy and that means genetically I actually don’t like shopping and I’ve only ever designed the escalator and fountain at the Eaton center.  But let them know that I’d do it.” We finished lunch, climbed over the snowbank of freshly plowed snow, crossed the street to get back for afternoon classes and a few weeks later I was walking down the stairs of a plane in the stultifying humidity at Changi airport. Monday morning, I was the program Director of the Visual Merchandising Department at LaSalle International Fashion School … in Singapore… and… I had no idea what I was doing but knew my career had taken a significant and abrupt turn. The world of retail design had found me, and I never looked back for the next 20 years. Over those 20 plus years I learned from some masters in retail design and visual merchandising. I arrived in New York after a year, spent an afternoon with Gene Moore, was introduced to Peter Glenn and ended up working with Joe Weishar New Vision Studios. I spent the next four years listening to and watching Joe talk about visual merchandising practice as both art and retail strategy. For Joe Weishar visual merchandising wasn't just a display tactic but was a creative discipline that blended art, design and retail psychology.  He merged visual perception and design principles and he would layout a store or a wall with the same mechanics of laying out a composition of a painting – proportions, scale, focal points. He celebrated Visual merchandising as an art form that shaped memorable experiences rather than simply placing products on the shelves All of those basic art principles were things that I was deeply familiar with. I had been in private art studios that my parents put me in at the age of nine because they recognized my passion for painting. I had gone to architecture school and spent the first eight years of my career doing traditional architectural projects – museums, libraries, houses, schools… that sort of thing and I taught the design same principles of scale proportion, balance, color, harmony and how you could use those things ultimately to tell a story to students in a College’s interior design program in Montreal. Even in those early years of my career in the late 90s, I was learning that retail stores needed to be engaging the senses, and we should be thinking about creatively implementing textures, variations in lighting as well as sound and scent and not just focusing on what customers would experience with their eyes. I was learning that the senses were conduits for emotion and memory - that if you implemented design principles and thoughtful sensory-based visual merchandising elements correctly, that they would help to fill shopping baskets and engage customers in long-term relationships with a brand.  These sorts of environments that engaged the senses would increase loyalty and invite return visits because, in the end, the store was simply a backdrop, a theater set for the full-bodied experience of a brand where main feature was the merchandise. If you thought of merchandise as elements in a composition and wrapped them in memorable display moments, it could make stores sing. This sort of thinking positioned retail as experience design rather than a purely commercial layout. The goods were a necessary part of the equation to be sure, but as I working through the foundational years of a retail design career, I saw that great retail places were more than a depository for stuff to be consumed, they had a palpable emotional resonance, they had soul.  It was remarkable to me then, as a young retail architect, that we were designing with the purpose of selling…but it was more than that. Great stores fulfilled basic needs, desires and dreams. They were places for relationship building, with people as well as brands. They were story telling places that helped to message group belonging, wellbeing, connection and status. They were places where displays weren’t random; they were meant to guide customers through a narrative journey. Every element was intentional, geared towards telling a brand story that invited the customer to participate in the story’s unfolding. All of the effort that the designers, merchants and visual teams put into making the store wasn’t just about “making it look good,” but making it work well.  The design and visual strategy had to be grounded in retail metrics and customer behavior. In the end, our job as co-authors of this retail experience script was to move product. We would calculate merchandising units per square foot. We

ABOUT JENNIFER: LinkedIn Profile: https://www.linkedin.com/in/thejenniferwalsh/  Websites: https://www.walkwithwalsh.comBio: For nearly 30 years, Jennifer has been at the forefront of transformative movements in beauty, retail, & biophilic design. As a consummate innovator, she has been dedicated to reimagining the human experience, whether through pioneering retail concepts, creating immersive outdoor experiences, or driving biophilic design solutions across industries. In the 1990s, Jennifer founded Beauty Bar, the first experiential omni-channel beauty brand in the U.S., introducing open-sell environments, curbside service, and men’s skincare departments, concepts that reshaped how people shop for beauty. This trailblazing work integrated biophilic principles long before they became mainstream, earning recognition as an industry innovator. After selling Beauty Bar ultimately purchased by Amazon in 2011, she continued to build groundbreaking businesses and brands, always staying ahead of the curve. Another first was created in 2014 with Pride & Glory, a collegiate beauty brand.  Today, she guides large and small scale biophilic design projects to create spaces that promote human flourishing. From Recharge Rooms to retail spaces, homes, schools, and urban landscapes, her work transforms environments into ecosystems of opportunity. All inspired from lived experiences. Jennifer helps organizations leverage the neuroscience of nature to enhance experiences, foster resilience, and build deeper connections within their organizations. SHOW INTRO: Welcome to Episode 84! of the NXTLVL Experience Design podcast… In every episode we follow our catch phrase of having “Dynamic Dialogues About DATA: Design, Architecture, Technology and the Arts.”  And as we continue on this journey, we’ll have guests that are thought provoking futurists, AI technology mavens, retailers, international hotel design executives as well as designers and architects of brand experience places. We’ll talk with authors and people focused on wellness and sustainable design practices as well as neuroscientists who will continue to help us look at the built environment and the connections betw een our mind-body and the built world around us. We’ll also have guests who are creative marketing masters from international brands and people who have started and grown some of the companies that are striking a new path for us follow. If you like what you hear on the NXTLVL Experience Design show, make sure to subscribe, like, comment and share with colleagues, friends and family. The NXTLVL Experience Design podcast is always grateful for the support of VMSD magazine. VMSD brings us, in the brand experience world, the International Retail Design Conference. I think the IRDC is one of the best retail design conferences that there is bringing together the world of retailers, brands and experience place makers every year for two days of engaging conversations and pushing us to keep on talking about what makes retailing relevant.  You will find the archive of the NXTLVL Experience Design podcast on VMSD.com. Thanks also goes to Shop Association the only global retail trade association dedicated to elevating the in-store experience.  SHOP Association represents companies and affiliates from 25 countries and brings value to their members through research, networking, education, events and awards. Check then out on SHOPAssociation.org  Today, EPISODE 84… I talk with Jennifer Walsh who for nearly 30 years, has been at the forefront of transformative movements in beauty, retail, & biophilic design.  Jennifer is an innovator, and has been dedicated to reimagining the human experience, whether through pioneering retail concepts, creating immersive outdoor experiences, or driving biophilic design solutions across industries. Talking about biophilic design isn’t new on the podcast, this time though we bolt on retailing, neuroscience and experience.  This conversation is more introspective and looks at one’s motivation to change to considering our environments and biophilic design from the point of view of sense of well-being and personal growth. We’ll get there in a minute but... first a few thoughts… *                     *                          *                          * If you go back to the early episodes of the podcast, you’ll come across Bill Browning. Bill and I connected while I was working the hospitality industry and focusing my efforts on the redesign of the Westin guestroom and lobby design strategy. Bill’s world is Biophilic – both literally and philosophically, may be even existentially. He literally wrote the book on Biophilic Design’s 14 principles, which now includes a 15th with the addition of ‘Awe,’ and he has written a more recent publication with Katie Ryan called “Nature Inside,” it is a terrific handbook to implementing Biophilic design principles in built environments. I think a lot about the design of places where nature has been completely eliminated - think major downtown cities in any corner of the world. It is also not lost on me that when I sit working in my Home Office I have the extraordinarily good fortune to lookout on 2 1/2 acres of green space with a rolling hill down towards a creek that when it rains particularly hard overflows and becomes a small river in my backyard.  But this point of view to my backyard and the way I feel sitting on my deck having a morning coffee is not just about the warm feeling of my cup in my hands but that there are key principles of biophilic design at play - namely refuge and prospect. Being exposed daily to these perspectives towards a forest at the back of my property I have an immediate body sense of calm, wonder and awe. I see sun rises to the left of my property and sun sets to the right. The re are Canada geese that, like clockwork, fly over my backyard every fall as they migrate South. I’m attuned to the textures and colors of the sky and the varying degrees of light intensity - bright and brilliant and dreary and diffused. All of these features of a natural world have the effect of putting me at ease. In the past few years, I've begun to connect that mind body experience, the somatic experience of natural places, with what I understand about neuroscience and our long evolutionary history of living the largest proportion of our human development among trees - in a real jungle versus the concrete ones that we have now built all around us. It's no surprise that the Japanese practice of Shinrin-yoku – forest bathing – is actually therapeutic.  When we immerse ourselves in a forest atmosphere, using all five senses to connect with nature, we are promoting stress reduction and well-being. Slowing down, and taking mindful walks, appreciating sights, sounds, and smells is so good for us and yet many of us, especially those who are city dwellers, rush from place to place making sure to stay on the clock moving from one appointment to the next and filling our schedules every day with a mind-numbing number of things to check off on our To Do List  Taking a moment to disconnect from technology calms the mind and body and has proven benefits like lower stress hormones and boosting immunity. The multi layered, highly textured and colored natural environments that we have evolved from, are often being replaced by environments of banality that actually have deep psychological effects when we are continually exposed to boring buildings. Bringing this intuitive sense, that natural environments support well-being, into the design of built environments, and intentionally creating places that reference biophilic principles, often proves very hard to do in a world where efficiency and productivity leading to increased profitability are what we are taught to drive towards as a reflection of success. Many times, adding plants to a space is an afterthought, like decoration, to make things look better - but they are not really being incorporated as a strategy for building environments to enhance well-being. Interestingly though, when people learn more about how to apply biophilic principles, beyond simply introducing plants as a nod to creating more nature-based experiences, they begin to also understand that their assumptions about adding additional cost may not be well founded.  If you consider designing with nature in mind from the get-go, incorporating principles of biophilic design in the places we build as part of the strategy, then managing the costs is totally achievable. Anthropologie stores are a great example of introducing living green walls to their stores. Too be sure, these are not without expense both in their implementation and maintenance but the effect of walking up the grand staircase with this green wall rising from floor to ceiling across multiple levels feels wonderful. I still remember one of my first experiences in the Anthropologie store on Regent Street in London and have since sought to find similar experiences in other retail stores around the world.  Design ideas like the green walls in Anthropologie stores is a conscious, intentional, move that enhances experience as well as environmental air quality. We simply feel better when we were places like this and if that turns into reduced absenteeism of associates or increased customer visits then… all the better.  There's no question that being under a wash of fluorescent light standing on hard surfaces or sitting in cubicles is perhaps one of the worst ways to be productive and happy in our workplaces. I would imagine that sales associates in Anthropologie stores generally feel better than in big boxes with uniform high intensity lighting, relentless aisles of merchandise, hard surfaces and stale air with no natural sunlight. Full disclosure, when I look back over my career of designing retail places, very infrequently has the design tea

ABOUT BRYAN: LinkedIn Profile: linkedin.com/in/bryanmeszaros Websites: openeyeglobal.com (Company)marketscale.com/industries/podcast-network/experience-by-design/ (Experience By Design Podcast)experienceunitedsocialclub.com (Experience United Social Club)email: [email protected] Bio: Bryan Meszaros is a 25-year veteran of the digital signage and experience design industry, known for blending innovation with measurable impact. As the founder of OpenEye Global, he proved that a small, focused team can deliver big results and helped shape the early evolution of digital engagement. He later made history as the youngest President of SEGD and the first with a digital centric background, while also contributing to the Digital Signage Federation and Shop! Association to advance industry standards. Bryan is also the founder of the Experience United Social Club (XUSC), an international networking series all about bringing together creative minds from the AV, digital signage, and design industries to share ideas and collaborate. With global experience across Europe and APAC, he has spoken at major events including EuroShop, ISE, InfoComm, and DSE, and regularly contributes to leading industry publications. Dedicated to pushing boundaries, Bryan remains focused on shaping what comes next in digital signage and experiential design. SHOW INTRO: SHOW INTRO: Welcome to Episode 83! of the NXTLVL Experience Design podcast… In every episode we continue to follow our catch phrase of having “Dynamic Dialogues About DATA: Design, Architecture, Technology and the Arts.” And as we continue on this journey there will be thought provoking futurists, AI technology mavens, retailers, international hotel design executives as well as designers and architects of brand experience places. We’ll talk with authors and people focused on wellness and sustainable design practices as well as neuroscientists who will continue to help us look at the built environment and the connections between our mind-body and the built world around us. We’ll also have guests who are creative marketing masters from international brands and people who have started and grown some of the companies that are striking a new path for us follow. If you like what you hear on the NXTLVL Experience Design show, make sure to subscribe, like, comment and share with colleagues, friends and family. The NXTLVL Experience Design podcast is always grateful for the support of VMSD magazine. VMSD brings us, in the brand experience world, the International Retail Design Conference. I think the IRDC is one of the best retail design conferences that there is bringing together the world of retailers, brands and experience place makers every year for two days of engaging conversations and pushing us to keep on talking about what makes retailing relevant.  You will find the archive of the NXTLVL Experience Design podcast on VMSD.com. Thanks also goes to Shop Association the only global retail trade association dedicated to elevating the in-store experience. SHOP Association represents companies and affiliates from 25 countries and brings value to their members through research, networking, education, events and awards. Check then out on SHOPAssociation.org  Today, EPISODE 83… I talk with Bryan Meszaros founder of EpenEye Global. Bryan is a 25-year veteran of the digital signage and experience design industry, known for blending innovation with measurable impact.  Naturally, in a world that is increasingly digitally mediated, Bryan’s business is significantly focused on the emergence of Artificial Intelligence as a tool in his experience place-making toolbox. We’ll get to more of how Bryan sees the use of AI in digital applications in brand experience places in a minute but... first a few thoughts… *                     *                          *                          * I grew up on Star Trek. They original version with Shatner as Captain James T Kirk. These were the sightly campy years in black and white but wonderfully prescient in foretelling what was to come.  I used to say that my father, who lived to the ripe old age of 97 was so into it that was holding out until he could just beam up through the transporter to the next phase of his existence. We all watched, my 4 brothers and I every week, my mom? Well not so much… I got used to thinking about digital communication, robots, space travel and technology integrated into our lives facilitating everything from washing dishes to extending lifespans.  There isn’t a day that goes by now where my media consumption doesn’t include something on the evolution of Artificial Intelligence. Both the amazing and the alarming.   How it will make workplaces completely different replacing much of what we now do with human brain and brawn with algorithms and computer chips that can fit 1000 computers from the old Star Trek days on your fingertip.  How it is changing the way human brains are wired, though when it comes to our neural networks that trundle along at a speed ridiculously slow compared to the digital pace of change that is exponential and moving at the speed of light. How as a visualization tool it is becoming indistinguishable from real life people and places. Creating deep fakes that are so good at impersonating humans that avatars are no longer cartoonish but facsimiles of us that are, well, exactly like us - but whose knowledge base is the compendium of all human knowledge that can be accessed on the internet and provide cogent answers to well-crafted prompts and have them served up in a few seconds.  ‘The times they are a changin’ but at a pace that even Dillan couldn’t have imagined. Don’t even get me started about when we finally, and I don’t think it is going to take too long, get to Artificial General Intelligence (AGI) and what that portends for humankind.  I am often concerned for my sons and the world they are growing into as young adults. I wish sometimes that they’d have had the experience of growing up in the 60’s and 70’s when times were simpler – but of course they weren’t really. Every decade has it’s messes – sometime beautiful sometimes not and sometimes each of these ends of the human experience spectrum were happening at the same time. What we are experiencing now is evolution at a revolutionary pace. A slow simmering flame has exploded into a blast furn ace of change propelling us all, whether we like it or not, on a path that at times seems to be heading towards the edger of a cliff.  Concerned? Well you’d have good reason to be. But then again, if you accept the Ray Bradburry adage of sometimes while standing at the edge of the cliff ‘you need to jump and build your wings on the way down’, may we all then transform in midflight into some sort of lemmings with wings. The subject of AI has surfaced a number of times on this podcast notably with data visualization artists like Refik Anadol and architect artist Samar Younes,  spatial computing specialist and near futurist Neil Redding and Synchronicity Architect Justin Bolognino. Each of these creators and theorists shape the AI narrative to their own ends, each of them proclaiming the virtues and vices of the technology. Uses of AI in design and architecture, as well as other industries, is multifarious and, I would admit, well beyond my more general appreciation for using it as an ideation tool and writing assistant in my everyday work. In the world of experience design there are at least 2 ways - although I would guess many more - to look at it: - on a very basic level there is the physical integration of digital media facilitated by Ai and then there is actual content that ends up on the digital interface – be it a touch screen kiosk, a display array in a sports bar or an enormous multi-story wall in Times Square.  Getting these screens to work with the environment is always a challenge. Mainly I believe because they come as an afterthought rather than an integrated design solution and part of a digital experience strategy. In the second case of content, one size does not fit all.  Places and people are different. The same content being played on those screens all day are visual noise detracting from overall experience rather than enhancing it. These days, every minute of every day things are changing. Why should digital content on screen of any size and shape be any different? If purveyors of brand experiences are not changing content to adapt to customers everchanging needs across the journey, digital content simply becomes part of the visual texture of the environment slipping into irrelevancy and lending nothing to the embodied memory of a place. This is one area Ai is able to change the game – creating content to meet customer needs more directly.  Now it would be difficult, if not impossible to change digital content in Times Square to continually meet the needs of the thousands of people in that digital epicenter in New York. But then we all carry cell phones – person digital devices.  All of those phones are geolocated. Each of those those has an address – a personal identifier about who it belongs to and bunch of other information about you – personal, financial, home address, etc. Are a bunch of guys at google looking at you individually as you make your way across Times Square – not really – but your Hazel and Gretel trail of ones and zeros from purchases, GPS searches, app use, etc., etc., tell a lot about you should anyone want to do a little digital forensics. The idea here is that we are giving up this information every time we turn our phones on. That information isn’t snatched from us without our consent (generally) it’s in our service agreement terms and conditions – that impossibly long text that most of us scroll through to the end and click “agree.” But that informatio

ABOUT DINA TOWNSEND  Dina's Linkedin Profile: linkedin.com/in/dinatownsend DINA TOWNSEND BIO As Chief Sales Officer at Mamava, Dina leads the Sales Organization with energy, optimism, and a genuine passion for building connections. She is rooted in the belief that strong business acumen and a meaningful mission can be seamlessly intertwined. After a purpose-driven career pivot from Digital Signage Technology to Mamava, she channels her expertise into propelling sales for this mission-centric company. Beyond her professional endeavors, Dina is a former skydiver, a hobby homesteader, an avid college football fan, and a well-intentioned, albeit average, golfer. email: [email protected] | 802.347.2111 (o)  Website: www.mamava.com Say yes to dignified lactation spaces! Be a hero—here's how you can help.   SHOW INTRO: Welcome to Episode 82! of the NXTLVL Experience Design podcast… In every episode we continue to follow our catch phrase of having “Dynamic Dialogues About DATA: Design, Architecture, Technology and the Arts.” And as we continue on this journey there will be thought provoking futurists, AI technology mavens, retailers, international hotel design executives as well as designers and architects of brand experience places. We’ll talk with authors and people focused on wellness and sustainable design practices as well as neuroscientists who will continue to help us look at the built environment and the connections between our mind-body and the built world around us. We’ll also have guests who are creative marketing masters from international brands and people who have started and grown some of the companies that are striking a new path for us follow. If you like what you hear on the NXTLVL Experience Design show, make sure to subscribe, like, comment and share with colleagues, friends and family. The NXTLVL Experience Design podcast is always grateful for the support of VMSD magazine. VMSD brings us, in the brand experience world, the International Retail Design Conference. I think the IRDC is one of the best retail design conferences that there is bringing together the world of retailers, brands and experience place makers every year for two days of engaging conversations and pushing us to keep on talking about what makes retailing relevant.  You will find the archive of the NXTLVL Experience Design podcast on VMSD.com. Thanks also goes to Shop Association the only global retail trade association dedicated to elevating the in-store experience. SHOP Association represents companies and affiliates from 25 countries and brings value to their members through research, networking, education, events and awards. Check then out on SHOPAssociation.org  Today, EPISODE 82… I talk with Dina Townsend Chief Sales Officer at Mamava a company whose mission is to create a healthier society through infrastructure and support for breastfeeding.  And, along with partners who share in in their purpose of celebrating and supporting breastfeeding, Mamava is moving closer to creating a future where there is a dignified lactation space anywhere a parent may go.  We’ll get to my discussion with Dina in a minute, first though a few thoughts… *                     *                          *                          * A few episodes back I had Claire Coder founder and CEO if Aunt Flow on the show. That was an interesting conversation since we crossed what I think were a few boundaries (at least for me) and we talked quite candidly about menstruation. Not just about the biology of women’s monthly cycle but about the fact that there are many women who have faced the scenario of getting their period unexpectedly and not have pads or tampons to meet them in their moment of need. Enter the company Aunt Flow who provides free feminine hygiene products in public restrooms, schools and other public buildings and to Fortune 500 corporate headquarters - for which tens of thousands of women are eternally grateful. This conversation with Dina Townsend, I guess you could say, falls in the Aunt Flow camp of subjects.  Breast feeding moms was not a subject that I had on the list of things to address on the podcast. But here we are nevertheless with a subject that piqued my curiosity because the company Dina works for, Mamava, checks most of the boxes in our Dialogues on DATA: Design, Architecture, Technology and he Arts” catch phrase. First off…I did not know there was something called the “Pump Act”. For the curious out there, a little internet searching comes up with this: “…The PUMP for Nursing Mothers Act, enacted in December 2022, expands workplace protections for nursing employees by requiring employers to provide reasonable break time and a private, non-bathroom space for pumping breast milk for up to one year after a child's birth. This law allows for legal action if employers fail to comply…” Now… Dina will contend that many employers do in fact provide such a space and also that a janitors closet with a folding chair would be in line with the requirements.  Sure, a closet meets the description of a ‘private space’ but it wholly underserves the needs of a nursing mother in terms of experience. I am aware that there are widely divergent views on the whole subject of breast feeding – we are not going to go there – except that I’ll say that I fully line up behind my wife who breastfed our two sons. My discussion with Dina moves from the necessity to provide environments for nursing mothers to breastfeed their infants while in public places to the buying power of mothers who statistics indicate make an enormous amount of the buying decisions in households to how tying Retail Media Networks - RMNs – to Mamava pods serve a triple bottom line serving People, Planet and Profit. It’s a way of shifting our thinking about business from “How much money did we make?” to: “Did we make money in a way that benefits society and the environment too?” Nielsen, Boston Consulting Group (BCG) and Harvard Business Review research tells us that Women drive 70–80% of consumer purchasing decisions in the U.S. and that is even for products they don’t personally use.  And that their annual global consumer spending, is $20 trillionwhich, by the way, is a number projected to rise to $28 trillion. In many households, women make or heavily influence91% of new home purchases, 92% of vacation decisions, and 80% of healthcare choices says research by the Yankelovich Monitor, Marketing to Women Conference data. And Millennial and Gen Z mothers are even more influential: they control about $1 trillion in direct annual spendingand are primary decision-makers for food, home goods, education, and entertainment – says research by the Pew Research Center. So, women and moms are a force to be reconned with in terms of buying power and why Mamava pods are more than an economic discussion. The behavioral and psychographic aspects of them is important as well. Women increasingly valuebrands that support family life, caregiving, and inclusivity and so features like Mamava pods in retail locations or corporate HQs or parental-leave policies have brand-equity impact. We have known for some time that brands that are considered authentic exhibiting genuine empathic concern for their customer and employeesare major drivers in establishing brand affinity and purchase decisions.  The BabyCenter “State of Modern Motherhood” report says that “ 9 in 10 mothers say they are more loyal to brands that “understand the challenges of motherhood.” And then there is mom’s digital influence. Pew Internet studies explains that“80% of moms research products online before buying and that 60% follow parenting or lifestyle influencers for purchase guidance.” When you combine these factors with the emergence of Retail Media Networks, RMNs, you have a value add to placing Mamava pods in places that do not actually take up any more space on the sales floors of a store than is already being occupied with stuff that does support the brand experience or selling anything. Use to be that when digital screens came into the retail world, we had kiosks as wayfinding devices.  Then a proliferation of screens emerged in the market where walls were more digital wallpaper crowding the environment with content and, in my opinion adding little to experience, arguably creating a shopping experience with more visual distraction and diminishing the overall experience. Painting the environment with the broad-brush stroke of digital media is often ineffective in capturing and retaining attention and doesn’t lead to the positive results we think it does. That said, well considered application of digital media like those found on Mamava pods creates an opportunity to provide messaging to customers that could be more like a public service announcement, like ‘get your flu shot here today,’ or a focused marketing piece that invites customers to consider a particular product that they may not have thought of prior to arriving at the store. So, you might ask why this matters to retail design Women and mothers aren’t just your average everyday consumers, they’re key decision-makers shaping the social expectations of brands and spaces.  Retailers, airports, and workplaces that provide amenities like Mamava pods, family restrooms, or flexible shopping experiences are responding directly to data-driven insights like: Increased dwell time and spending when caregivers feel accommodated.Higher brand loyalty and word-of-mouth among mothers.Positive CSR – Corporate Social Responsibility - and inclusivity signaling which is important for both consumer and employee attraction.If you have recently traveled through an airport, you may have already come upon a Mamava pod or maybe you have seen their “bench” version in a retail store.  Fed up with pumping in bathrooms and borrowed spaces—

ABOUT CHRISTIAN DAVIES: Christian's LinkedIn profile: linkedin.com/in/christian-davies-fcsd-3728a513Websites: https://www.bergmeyer.com email: [email protected] Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/christianthdavies/  Christian Davies Bio:  Davies brings 30+ years' experience as a creative leader, working with brands across the globe, from disruptive startups to the very top Fortune 500 contenders in retail, experiential, beauty, fashion, hospitality, technology, luxury, and more. His veteran status includes over 100 national and international design awards (15 of which earned top honors for Store of the Year Awards), including a five-time winner of design:retail’s Retail Design Influencer as well as a coveted Retail Design Luminary award.   As a Chief Strategy Officer for Bergmeyer, strategic innovation and design leadership define Davies role, stemming from a robust background in creative direction and design thinking. His approach harnesses the power of diverse, interdisciplinary teams, developed through hands-on experience in various roles across a wide variety of companies throughout his career. As Chief Strategy Officer, steering the business strategy and our passion for innovation encapsulates my daily mission. Prior to Bergmeyer, Davies served as Managing Director of the Creative Marketing Group at Verizon, Creative Vice President of Global Design and Innovation for Starbucks, Executive Creative Director of the Americas at Fitch, and Vice President/Managing Creative Director at FRCH Design Worldwide. Also See: https://www.bergmeyer.com/people/christian-davies  SHOW INTRODUCTION: Welcome to Episode 81! of the NXTLVL Experience Design podcast… What started at a pivotal moment during the COVID pandemic in early 2020 has continued for seven seasons and now 81 episodes.  This season we continue to follow our catch phrase of having “Dynamic Dialogues About DATA: Design, Architecture, Technology and the Arts. In the coming weeks we have some terrific conversations that are both fun and inspiring.  They are going to include thought provoking futurists, AI technology mavens, retailers, international hotel design executives as well as designers and architects of brand experience places. We talk with authors and people focused on wellness and sustainable design practices as well as neuroscientists who will continue to help us look at the built environment and the connections between our mind-body and the built world around us. We’ll also have guests who are creative marketing masters from international brands and people who have started and grown some of the companies that are striking a new path for us follow. The NXTLVL Experience Design podcast is grateful for the support of VMSD magazine. VMSD brings us, in the brand experience world, the International Retail Design Conference. The IRDC is one of the best retail design conferences that there is bringing together the world of retailers, brands and experience place makers every year for two days of engaging conversations and pushing us to keep on talking about what makes retailing relevant.  You will find the archive of the NXTLVL Experience Design podcast on VMSD.com. Thanks also goes to Shop Association the only global retail trade association dedicated to elevating the in-store experience. SHOP Association represents companies and affiliates from 25 countries and brings value to their members through research, networking, education, events and awards. Check then out on SHOPAssociation.org  Today, EPISODE 81… I talk with Christian Davies. We actually recorded this discussion months ago and Christian wondered if publishing it now was still relevant. I assured him it was, since Christian tends to unearth issues that are future forward - things to be mindful about should we want to address the issues we all face as individuals or societies or as architects and designers making places and things as we serve as our clients creative sherpa guides bringing ideas into the built world.  Now… Christian has been sitting atop the heap of 80 conversations as the most listened to episode since we recorded our first talk a couple years ago. So, I thought, well why not do Christian Davies 2.0? Christian does not disappoint - never has – over a couple of decades, Christian has consistently drawn audiences and colleagues into conversation, sometimes challenging, and always brilliant and things that drive design thinking. His matter-of-fact English attitude to the world of design is sometimes a ‘no holds barred’ reality check that makes you think twice about the truths you have held dear.  His drive towards excellence is irrepressible. That makes him, some may say, demanding because I think he expects that we all give a damn about what we are brining into the world. And why not? We all share space on this little blue dot and, we had better get it, and soon, that we are part of a vast ecosystem of interdependencies. We cover a lot of ground in this open-ended conversation – I’d not expect less from Christian - And here is a few thoughts on subject areas we touch on… 1. Entropy: Entropy is a scientific measure of disorder, randomness. Astrophysicist and other cosmologists have postulated that our universe is continuing to expand to a maximum state of entropy from a moment in time, the beginning of the Universe that they have called The Big Bang. There's lots of great content that you can certainly dig up on what happens when the universe finally expands to maximum entropy and all particles are spread out evenly within the unimaginably large space of the universe. It's suggested that of course this maximun expansion will take something like 10 to the 36 or 37 power years in other words trillions and trillions of years. A very very long time…. But for now, the way I try to think of it is things will expand and eventually slow down as they all spread out to be evenly distributed throughout the universe… seems reasonable… It's kind of like imagining the initial moments after a massive explosion. Things spread out pretty quickly from the epicenter of the explosion and as they're flung far and wide, particles eventually slow and if you think of it in terms of entropy they all reach maximum randomness. I kind of think that right now, today, considering that the scientists think that the universe has only been around for 14 1/2 billion years or so, that we're kind of right at that very beginning stage of the explosion and things are moving faster and faster away from the epicenter of The Big Bang.  This is interesting if you think that the universe will continue to be expanding for a few trillion years so right now yeah, we're kind of sort of in the one second after the explosion time frame. Anyway I am not an astrophysicist and some of these enormous ideas still leave me scratching my head… If we look at today, and everything around us, it certainly seems that things are speeding up and becoming more distributed, more random. I know I've talked about the whole idea of the pace of change in a number of episodes but I find this really interesting because, as I discussed with Christian, it's really hard to design into a future state when you consider that the sands beneath your feet are always shifting. How do we know which step is the right one? How do you know when we step on solid ground or drop forever into a bottomless void… I think the challenge here for designers is that, at least for a time, we need to have a sense of stability and order. The challenge is, I think, is that we're moving to an increasing rate of change where stability and order might be elusive to say the least. 2. Moments of human connection make experiences great: I think as we speed along and never ending sea of change perhaps one of the things that we can hang on to, a stake in the ground if you will, will continue to be our ability to maintain our relationships. Change has a funny way of, well… changing people. And, one of our jobs will be to keep up with changing expectations of brands and their customers. One thing is sure, as we scream along this ever changing path, relationships will remain as one of the fundamental qualities of great experiences.  Both brand experience architecture and the means with which we engage with brands will change to meet evolving expecations but, my expectation, (or maybe it's just my hope) is that humans still stay at the center of it all - Since at least for this short little time that humans have been in existence, we have relied on the empathic connection between individuals to help create meaning and connection to the world around us as well as the things well as the things we simply buy. And I, like Christian, believe that in the end, when you look at successful projects in our long design careers, the good ones, I mean the really good ones, we're not just because we received a great brief with an inspired client who had a vision of changing up the world, but that the teams we were connected to both on the consultant and client sides were also great. There was something that clicked.  There was a gel in communication, respect and collaboration that drove these projects forward. Some may have heard me say before projects will come and go but the relationships are really what make the work great. I'd rather lose a project than trash the relationships… 3. Three things that facilitate success stories in the world of retail place-making: So, if you're going to look at success stories over a career full of projects, when you look back at what really made them great was, of course that they were successful from a financial point of view, that they drove increase customers and deeper brand relationships and better revenues all those things are important indicators of success but that there are things that are required to make all of that happen. One would be that there's a big idea someone at the helm of a brand or busines

ABOUT APRIL RINNE: BIO:  My North Star: Helping people and organizations understand what's on the horizon – and how they fit into it.  I decipher signals of change, help leaders and teams improve their tolerance for uncertainty, and scout new insights and opportunities in a world in flux.  Over 25+ years and 100+ countries, I’ve been exposed to a wide range of companies, cultures, business models, leadership styles, and norms. And I’ve seen time and time again: Every organization, every team, and every individual struggles with change and uncertainty in some way. Even before the pandemic, and especially today. We’ve all had different experiences of change, and we could all use some help with the unknown. Leveling up our relationships to change and uncertainty is the opportunity of our lifetimes. My career portfolio includes futurist, speaker, author, advisor, global development executive, microfinance lawyer, investor, mental health advocate, certified yoga teacher, globetrotter, insatiable handstander, and ambassador of joy. Along the way I've been named one of the 50 Leading Female Futurists in the world, a World Economic Forum Young Global Leader, a member of Thinkers50 Radar and the Silicon Guild, and one of the earliest Estonian e-Residents. I'm also the author of the international bestseller Flux: 8 Superpowers for Thriving in Constant Change. My journey to Flux has been deeply personal. It began with the death of both of my parents in a car crash when I was 20. My entire life flipped upside-down. And today, there is nothing I enjoy more than sharing with others how I learned to see differently, find meaning, and strengthen my Flux Superpowers -- and how you can do so, too. April’s LinkedIn Profile: https://www.linkedin.com/in/aprilrinne/Websites: https://aprilrinne.comBUY THE BOOK: https://www.amazon.com/Flux-Superpowers-Thriving-Constant-Change/dp/1523093595 email: [email protected] INTRO: Welcome to Season 7 of the NXTLVL Experience Design podcast – Episode 80! What started at a pivotal moment during the COVID pandemic in early 2020 has continued for seven seasons and now 80 episodes.  This season we continue to follow our catch phrase of having “Dynamic Dialogues About DATA: Design, Architecture, Technology and the Arts. In the coming weeks we have some terrific conversations that are both fun and inspiring.  They are going to include thought provoking futurists, AI technology mavens, retailers, international hotel design executives as well as designers and architects of brand experience places. We’ll talk with authors and people focused on wellness and sustainable design practices as well as neuroscientists who will continue to help us look at the built environment and the connections between our mind-body and the built world around us. We’ll also have guests who are creative marketing masters from international brands and people who have started and grown some of the companies that are striking a new path for us follow. And I don't know, maybe there will be a couple of mystery guests that will just shake things up and give us a perspective on things that we've never thought about before. As in the past couple of seasons, we are grateful for the support of VMSD magazine. VMSD brings us, in the brand experience world, the International Retail Design Conference. The IRDC is one of the best retail design conferences that there is bringing together the world of retailers, brands and experience place makers every year for two days of engaging conversations and pushing us to keep on talking about what makes retailing relevant.  You will find the archive of the NXTLVL Experience Design podcast on VMSD.com. Thanks also goes to Shop Association the only global retail trade association dedicated to elevating the in-store experience.  SHOP Association represents companies and affiliates from 25 countries and brings value to their members through research, networking, education, events and awards. Check then out on SHOPAssociation.org  So, fasten your seat belt we’re in for some good times… Today, EPISODE 80… I talk with April Rinne whose North Star is helping people and organizations understand what's on the horizon – and how they fit into it.  April deciphers signals of change, helps leaders and teams improve their tolerance for uncertainty, and scouts new insights and opportunities in a world in flux.  As well as being an excellent hand stander, (check out pics of her doing handstands in places all over the world on her website), she is also the author of the international bestseller “Flux: 8 Superpowers for Thriving in Constant Change.” We will get to her book, some of the key ideas and so much more in a minute but first a few thoughts… It seems to me that over the past few seasons I've tended to talk about the idea of ‘the pace of change’ a lot. I'm beginning to think it's a little like my unnatural fear of sharks (thank you Steven Spielberg) and that I keep on talking about them and seeking out images of them on Instagram as some sort of cognitive behavioral therapy to get me better with the idea that I can actually go swimming in the ocean and not feel afraid of Spielberg’s Bruce sneaking up on me.  I seem to talk about change a lot for a few reasons…maybe because, I will confess, that I don't think that I was actually good with change for years. I was pretty set in my ways about having a plan and making sure the plan was followed.  I got significantly bent out of shape if the plan didn't go as, well… planned. If we were off on our timing, if something was late or if some spontaneous moment interrupted the calendar and I was going to have to re-adjust, it took me sometimes quite a while to recalibrate and get with the ‘new’ program. And then there was the spring of 2020 where, well…everything changed.  No doubt for someone who wasn't so good with the idea that things could change on a dime and a path you had so expertly crafted into the near future would just disappear in front of you, I came to understand that there were three types of change: the change that's innate - you know built into the system of everything the seasons the sun rising in the east and setting in the West and that kind of change that if it didn't happen you would think something was significantly wrong with the universethere was the change that we choose that gives us a sense of agency the kind of change we actually like more than others because we get to determine where it's going and what it actually means for usand then there's a kind of change like the COVID pandemic that is thrust upon you and in those moments shifting circumstances open a door to uncertainty that sense of clarity and purpose dissipates into a swell of unknowns and deep discomfort settles in making everything seem tenuous.That kind of change, I would hazard a guess, not many of us are fond of. That sort of change demands an openness to confront the necessity of things we have often held so dear or the veracity of things we've believed in about ourselves and others. This type of change asks us to embrace the unknown and find an opportunity for transformation in the ambiguity. This kind of change is the kind of change that requires you to stare long into the face of hard questions, discover inconvenient answers and make challenging decisions. That kind of change, turns out, is where all the growth is. That kind of change is embracing the Robert frost poem of the ‘path not travelled…’ The thing is… as I think I’ve said before… it's easy for us to fall for nostalgia. It's cozy. It's welcoming and reassuring because it's familiar and it's easy to continue to keep doing the same thing that we have always done because, for some, there's security in choosing the familiar in preference for going on an adventure. I love that one scene from The Hobbit where Bilbo Baggins, after refusing to go on the trip with the dwarves, finally gets it that maybe there's something in it for him, a growth opportunity, and he runs after the company exclaiming to neighbors, when asked where he was going, that he was ‘going on an adventure.’ But there's a strange paradox in all of this and that is; we both avoid the perceived danger of the unknown because the unfamiliar signals potential dangers and our neurobiology is geared to sounding the alarms when the unfamiliar lurks near… while at the same time being driven towards novel and the unexpected because that's where our brain ultimately finds learning opportunities (should we care to pay attention). There's no point in continuing to pull a covers over your head and hope that the uncertainty will pass because it's quite likely that when you reemerge whatever the challenge was it will still be there and you'll open up your eyes and feel a like Dorothy and you not being in Kansas anymore, because while you were conveniently not paying attention, the world was swept up tossed upside down and blown into a new reality in the context of the ever-increasing pace of change that we are all now exposed to. Of course, all of the speed that we're exposed to these days is forcing cultural shifts to happen, some of which we are not neurobiologically or evolutionarily adequately adapted to. Remember, it's taken a few billion years to get where we are. We can't expect that we'll be able to keep up with the mental machinery we now have. (Another challenge to talk about another time.) As we move into a new experience paradigm of continual change, failing fast and continual iteration may become ‘de rigeur’ because constant change will demand it and make it mainstream. In order to remain in sync with change, we will have to find a way to get right with the idea of change. This presents a particular problem for leaders of all sorts who have been traditionally looked upon to be able to divine the future and help lead their teams with certainty into a near ordistant fu

ABOUT JAIME SCHWARZ: BIO:  Jaime Schwarz is an award-winning copywriter and creative director, having worked with over 100 brands at NYC agencies before starting his entrepreneurial journey. In 2017 he authored the world's first NFT-focused patent and launched BrandTherapy.coach, a product market fit-focused consultancy built on the technique of letting the brand speak for itself.  After co-founding seven startups and consulting for dozens more, in 2022, Jaime pivoted into the web3 world by using AI to literally teach brands to speak for themselves and co-founding The TeamFlow.Institute using team intelligence to maximize the momentum of decentralized teams to create the Company Betterment Industry.  He also co-founded ParallelWorlds.us and positioned it as the world's first spatial transformation company. Since then, once his patent was granted, he has been building MRKD as an IP-founded venture focused on empowering the IP economy through co-creationism.  He serves on the board of Wayfinders on the Hudson, is an advisor to XRSI.org, and lives in Hastings on Hudson with his wife and two boys. Jaime’s LinkedIn Profile: linkedin.com/in/jaimeschwarzWebsites:brandtherapy.coach (Company)jaimeschwarz.com (Portfolio)calendly.com/getbrandtherapy/30min (Other)Email: [email protected] INTRO Welcome to the NXTLVL Experience Design podcast EPISODE 79 … and my conversation with Jaime Schwarz an award-winning copywriter and creative director, founder of Brand Therapy and a number of other ventures. On the podcast our dynamic dialogues based on our acronym DATA - design, architecture, technology, and the arts crosses over disciplines but maintains a common thread of people who are passionate about the world we live in and human’s influence on it, the ways we craft the built environment to maximize human experience, increasing our understanding of human behavior and searching for the New Possible.     he NXTLVL Experience Design podcast is presented by VMSD Magazine part of the Smartwork Media family of brands. VMSD brings us, in the brand experience world, the International Retail Design Conference. The IRDC is one of the best retail design conferences that there is bringing together the world of retailers, brands and experience place makers every year for two days of engaging conversations and pushing the discourse forward on what makes retailing relevant.  You will find the archive of the NXTLVL Experience Design podcast on VMSD.com. Thanks also goes to Shop Association the only global retail trade association dedicated to elevating the in-store experience.  SHOP Association represents companies and affiliates from 25 countries and brings value to their members through research, networking, education, events and awards. Check then out on SHOPAssociation.org Jaime Schwarz spent years work in the fast-paced world of New York advertising agencies where he came to deeply understand brands. Since then, his entrepreneurial journey has led to patent awards, and a few business ventures that truly bring things to the NXTLVL.  We’ll get to all of that in a moment but first though, a few thoughts…                  *                                  *                                  * OK so where to start on this one... You know… I try to lead teams by being authentic and transparent. Candid when it matters to get to the heart of the matter and circumspect when sharing the whole story it might not be appropriate.  But thinking about my interview with Jamie Schwarz makes me sit back in my chair and consider what I think I know. I think I know a little about a lot and I say that not lacking humility, but I've been always compulsively curious about stuff. All kinds of stuff. I like to know why things work the way they work, how people got to the places they got to in their careers, how history unfolds and the story of culture is our told and retold. And all sorts of other stuff.  I like reading about quantum physics but will confess I still get confused about how traveling at the speed of light and coming back to your origin will mean that you come back years in the future while the passage of time for you may only be a few moments.  I loved the movie interstellar.  I don't know things like that just sort of confused me, but they fascinate me nevertheless. I digress. I think I probably know a little bit about enough and in some cases it just might be that I know enough to be dangerous as the saying goes.  One of the motivations to doing the podcast is that I get to speak to lots people who are just way smarter and tuned in than me…and I generally add here that the bar is actually set pretty low because there are so many really smart people in the world. I like studying about the things that I try to engage in conversations about. I'll read books, watch hours of online content – presentations, speeches and interviews. I'll dig up articles and make sure that I show up ready to go for a conversation. Early on in the podcast series I had someone thank me for showing up well prepared. I just sort of thought that that was my responsibility to make sure that if someone was offering their time to have a discussion that I would have done my necessary background preparation to make it worth their while.  Some interviews I sort of set as stretch goals - people who I want to talk to because they have deep insight on areas that I am interested in but in which I may not have more than an intermediate or novice education.  My wife, a veteran of print and television journalism, a multi-book author, strong advocate of radical listening and who also has the uncanny ability to see way beyond the immediate conversation would always say to me that when in discussion you need to leave the interview questioning whether you know more about the person at the close of the conversation than you did when it started.  That's an interesting starting point when entering a conversation because it sets the basic premise for who's doing the talking - how much listening is going on and how you listen not to simply add your own opinions, solve the problem or give advice, but to dig deeper in your understanding, resulting in better attunement. I will confess that sometimes I am fully aware that my enthusiasm for subject matter leads to jumping in, offering personal experiences and contributing ideas. Conversations can chase multiple ideas, but I also think that's a result of what I consider as associative thinking - one idea connects to another and sets off a cascade of related or interdependent subjects. And then a whole array of rabbit holes lay before us. Each one leading to a delightful journey. Oh now which one to choose – why not all – let’s go! I have come to use these introductions to podcast interviews as replacements of a sort for a blog I used to write for VMSD magazine called “Brain Food.”  I take the time to consider what the conversation with my guest is about and set to musing on ideas that emerged in the conversation. Some of them are personal, stories that resonate deeply with personal or professional experiences. Others are thought bubbles that I offer up for further investigation.  I think that most of this episode is like thought bubbles. It covers the nature of branding and relationships with consumers, trust in marketing and storytelling, NFTs and creating derivative works and related IP legal issues, Web 3.0, Deconstructivism, co-creation in a digital mediated world, Ai and collective intelligence, the pace of change, art and digital twinning and the inherent value of co-creative works, quantum computers and hacking bitcoin, object permanence in the digital space… and, and, and you get the idea.  There is so much here that you might say it lacks focus, but I think it actually offers up the idea of complexity in our fast-paced digitally mediated world where interdependencies reign, everything is connected to everything in one multi-dimensional system and to what end it is sweeping us along.  We can come to these various rabbit holes of conversation because Jaime Schwarzis an award-winning copywriter and creative director, having worked with over 100 brands at NYC agencies before starting his entrepreneurial journey. In 2017 he authored the world's first NFT-focused patent and launched BrandTherapy.coach, a “product market fit-focused” consultancy (about which he speaks in our talk) that is built on the technique of letting the brand speak for itself.  After co-founding seven startups and consulting for dozens more, in 2022, Jaime pivoted into the web3 world by using AI to literally teach brands to speak for themselves and co-founding The TeamFlow.Institute using team intelligence to maximize the momentum of decentralized teams to create the Company Betterment Industry.  He also co-founded ParallelWorlds.us and positioned it as the world's first spatial transformation company. Since then, once his patent was granted, he has been building MRKD as an IP-founded venture focused on empowering the IP economy through co-creationism.  I could have prompted Jaime with any of these subjects and just sat back and taken it all in. ABOUT DAVID KEPRON: LinkedIn Profile: linkedin.com/in/david-kepron-9a1582b Websites:  https://www.davidkepron.com    (personal website) vmsd.com/taxonomy/term/8645  (Blog) Email: [email protected] Personal Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/davidkepron/ NXTLVL Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/nxtlvl_experience_design/ Bio: David Kepron is a multifaceted creative professional with a deep curiosity to understand ‘why’, ‘what’s now’ and ‘what’s next’. He brings together his background as an architect, artist, educator, author, podcast host and builder to the making of meaningful and empathically-focused, community-centric customer connections at brand experience pl

ABOUT CLAIRE CODER: BIO:  Claire Coder (Forbes 30under30) is a 28-year-old Thiel Fellow and founder and CEO of Aunt Flow. On a mission to make the world better for people with periods, Aunt Flow stocks public bathrooms with freely accessible tampons and pads. Through Claire’s leadership, Aunt Flow launched patented tampon & pad dispensers in 60k+ bathrooms and raised $17m+ in venture capital.  Coder launched her first company at age 16, designed a bag for Vera Bradley that sold out in 24 hours, and has her own line of GIFs. After getting her period in public without the supplies she needed, at 18 years old, Claire dedicated her life to developing a solution to ensure businesses and schools can sustainably provide quality period products for free in public bathrooms.  Since 2016, Aunt Flow has worked with thousands of businesses and schools, including organizations like Google, Princeton University, Netflix, and 30+ professional sports stadiums, to offer freely accessible period product dispensers, filled with organic cotton tampons and pads.  Aunt Flow has donated over 7 million organic cotton tampons and pads to menstruators in need since 2021.  Claire’s ultimate goal in life is for any menstruator to walk into any bathroom and never need to worry if they start their period, because Aunt Flow period products are freely available! Claire’s story has been featured in TeenVogue, Forbes, Fortune, and she starred in TLC’s Girl Starter Season 1. Claire speaks regularly surrounding her advocacy work, starting a social enterprise and journey as a female founder. For more information, please visit  LinkedIn Profile: https://www.linkedin.com/in/clairecoder/  Websites: clairecoder.com (Personal)goauntflow.com (Company)SHOW INTRO Welcome to the NXTLVL Experience Design podcast. EPISODE 78 … and my conversation with Claire Coder the Founder and CEO of Aunt Flow.  On the podcast our dynamic dialogues based on our acronym DATA - design, architecture, technology, and the arts crosses over disciplines but maintains a common thread of people who are passionate about the world we live in and human’s influence on it, the ways we craft the built environment to maximize human experience, increasing our understanding of human behavior and searching for the New Possible.     The NXTLVL Experience Design podcast is presented by VMSD Magazine part of the Smartwork Media family of brands. VMSD brings us, in the brand experience world, the International Retail Design Conference. The IRDC is one of the best retail design conferences that there is bringing together the world of retailers, brands and experience place makers every year for two days of engaging conversations and pushing the discourse forward on what makes retailing relevant.  You will find the archive of the NXTLVL Experience Design podcast on VMSD.com. Thanks also goes to Shop Association the only global retail trade association dedicated to elevating the in-store experience.  SHOP Association represents companies and affiliates from 25 countries and brings value to their members through research, networking, education, events and awards. Check then out on SHOPAssociation.org When Claire Coder was 18 years old she was at an event and she used a public restroom. While there, she discovered that she had unexpectedly started her period. And… she didn't have a quarter.  Why she would have needed a quarter and what happened as a result of not having one is the subject of an exceptional entrepreneurial trajectory that has changed woman's public bathrooms around the country. We’ll get to all of that in a moment but first though, a few thoughts…                  *                                  *                                  * What if you had an amazing idea that you knew was a no-brainer, an idea that provided something deeply necessary, but it seemed that everyone had overlooked it. What if you had a moment of insight from a personal experience that chartered out a clear path for providing a product and service that seemed to satisfy the deeply under met needs of more than 50% of the population? And what if when you took this moment of clear mental insight to a group of venture capitalists explaining that this was not just an idea that would not only satisfy a certain customer need but that could be an extraordinarily profitable business operation but when you asked for their involvement, they simply said… “NO”. And what if you heard “NO” 86 times when trying to get people interested in supporting your idea. Would you give up? Would you have already given up after the 1st or 10th or 50th “NO”? And what if you happened to be an 18-year-old young woman with this vision and enthusiasm and the subject of your VC pitches dealt with menstruation and woman's public bathrooms... How far do you think that would have gotten you? I could focus in on this intro by talking about the thing that we don't talk about, at least as a guy I can't imagine me and my guy friends would have ever talked about…as a teen, young man or frankly even today. Which is to say… women and monthly periods.  I could focus in on this somewhat taboo subject of a naturally occurring bodily function that we somehow sweep under the social discourse carpet, despite that more than 50% of the population has one every single month.  Or I could talk about the strange discomfort that comes up because somehow, we've made this discussion something to be ashamed about or talked only about between mothers and grandmothers and their daughters.  The strange irony here is that the other 49.53% of the North American population will end up living with, perhaps marrying and having children with the 50+ percent of the population who has their period every single month and yet, we'd prefer not to talk about it… But, if I did focus on those subjects, which by the way are not unimportant to talk about, it would potential we derail another story about a passion for entrepreneurship and the overwhelming need to address the needs of a population who are wholly unserved. It takes a lot of guts to be an entrepreneur. Being an entrepreneur is not easy. In fact, there are a lot of people who would say you’d simply have a few screws loose to actually want to be an entrepreneur. It's highly risky and you carry an extraordinary amount of responsibility. Everything from fundraising and decision-making, planning operations, accepting both successes and failures. When the entire enterprise is your baby, and relies on you as the key driver of the big idea, it can be incredibly emotionally taxing. The working hours can be extraordinary too. If we think that an average work week is neatly packed into 40 hours, an entrepreneur may end up spending twice or maybe even three times that amount in trying to get their business off the ground. ..and there's constant pressure to keep on pushing forward. One success does not necessarily guarantee the next and so there's this cycle of continuing to push and to make forward strides create product extensions and to expand the brand footprint that is unrelenting.  This is especially true if folks have lent you money to get your big idea off the ground. There's also a great degree of isolation that can emerge on the entrepreneurial path. You, and often you alone, are focused on birthing your brainchild, developing it and bringing it to market. This ‘child rearing’, if you will, often happens in times of extraordinary uncertainty and ambiguity.  In the current state of the world we live in today, ambiguity is the name of the game. What with the pace of change exponentially increasing, government shifting the rules of the game with tariffs and regulations, funding cuts and banning more that 250 words that according to PEN AMERICA are no longer considered acceptable including: advocacy, abortion, all-inclusive, biologically female, community equity, DEI, female, inclusive, sex, sexuality, vulnerable populations, and woman or women, just to name a few. So if your big idea is squarely focused on women, menstruation and period products, I would imagine it’s tricky. So, this means that you have to be built for understanding the pace of change the ability to flex and move and be resilient when things don't happen to go your way. Like for example if you are launching a new product line and a COVID pandemic hits that effectively shuts your business down. You could stop and pack up shop and be done or you could be resilient and change direction asking ‘what do people need right now?, and turn what you thought was going to be a business into a completely different thing that was not at all what you had planned in the 1st place. As an entrepreneur, you also have to wear many hats. You are at the same time the company owner, marketing and sales rep. You're dealing with HR issues, product design and materials sourcing and assortment planning. You're often doing customer service and trying to keep them satisfied while dealing with shipments that go missing or supply chains that get disrupted, because of say tariffs, for example, when your products were coming from out of the country and all of a sudden now they are more expensive than you had anticipated. And you have to be good, I mean really good, at dealing with rejection and failure. Most entrepreneurs face repeated setbacks, investor rejections, failed launches or people who just don't get what you're trying to deliver - or straight out don't like what you're trying to deliver - and reject your product and actively work against you to shut you down. Resilience and a sense of purpose when faced with strong headwinds is an absolutely essential feature of being an entrepreneur. You want to become an entrepreneur? Then you had better show up at the game with a load of mad skills so that you can weather the multiple impending storms. Now… don't get me wrong, it's