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Sophie Davis joins me to talk about George MacDonald's last fantasy novel, Lilith. Even for George MacDonald, this is a weird book. But if you're familiar with MacDonald's work, you know that wisdom and weirdness often go together like...I don't know...being a librarian, a sexton, a Raven, and the Adam? Or being a leopardess, a very white queen who is afraid of children, and an ancient Canaanite demoness seductress from a waterless world? Apologies for the audio quality here. Soon enough, episodes will have better audio, but I worry that this will annoy--apologies if it does. Give it a try, anyway, because we get to some really good stuff in this episode. (Here, by the way, is a link to the article Sophie references listing biblical allusions in Lilith.) Among other things, we discuss: **Why Lilith? / MacDonald's late fantasy** — ~5:15 **Lilith vs. Phantastes comparison** — ~7:55 **The world of Lilith: Bulika, the Lovers, and the Bags** — ~16:15 **The figure of Lilith in myth and MacDonald's redemption arc** — ~20:50 **Feminine guide figures: Mara, Eve, and Mr. Raven** — ~36:40 **Favorite images & a possible adaptation** — ~43:25 **Sophie's Conference paper on MacDonald's theology of death** — ~48:25 Thanks, as always, for listening, and let me know if you have questions or comments. My email is [email protected], and you can always rate and review the show. See you in a few weeks, when we'll talk about Manly Wade Wellman's The Old Gods Waken.

I know it's been a long wait, and you've had to settle for listening to "The" Joe Rogan Experience or The Daily, or maybe for staring glassy-eyed at a chair or at your friends' faces while they ask you if you're sure you're okay. But you can stop all that now. We're back. And we're back with more C.S. Lewis, who in turn is back with a certain poet I like to call John Skelton. Because that was his name. Could he have been England's first rapper? Lil' Skeltie? Tune in and find out. This week, Dr. Katherine Wyma and I continue our tour of C.S. Lewis' Oxford History of English Literature (Excluding Drama), or, as he liked to call it, "the OHEL," because...he hated writing it. That said, it's quite clear that the research Lewis conducted for the book--for over a decade--inspired much of his creative work. Further, it's clear that he was interested in what he wrote about here and admired Skelton's poetry, at least a bit. We're in Book I of The Oxford History of English Literature today--mainly the section marked "The Close of the Middle Ages in England," and we're focusing on Skelton, because he is the most significant poet to write during this time--at least in England.  (We recorded an earlier episode on "The Close of the Middle Ages in Scotland," but I have, to my great regret, misplaced that file. So if you were hoping to get that Dunbar or Henryson fix we all need sometimes, I'm afraid you'll have to wait a bit longer--so sorry!) So join us (and Lewis) as we mark time with Skelton, thinking about old age, death, and eccentric rhythms that aren't quite meter, but also aren't quite...not meter. Among other things, we discuss: 0:00 — Introduction & the OHEL Project 7:38 — John Skelton & Eleanor Rumming 14:23 — Medieval Body Humor & Aging 18:06 — Skeltonic Meter & Philip Sparrow 23:50 — Lewis on Philip Sparrow 28:40 — Grief, Pets, and Childhood 33:26 — Lewis vs. Eliot & Wrap-up This is taken from Chapter 2 of  Here, by the way, are the two most famous Skelton poems we discuss: The Tunning of Elenor Rumming The Book of Philip Sparrow By the way--my reading of these poems is meant to sort of suggest how they sound without going full Middle (or even Early Modern) English on you. So, yes, I realize it's sort of neither fish nor fowl. But it was fun. If you want to add anything or make any suggestions, or just reach out and say hi, please don't hesitate to contact me at [email protected].  Next: George MacDonald's Lilith!

Everyone else is reviewing Nolan's Odyssey. At least I'm doing it the way Alexander Pope would.  THE ARGUMENT. As Prologue to a Critique of Nolan’s The Odyssey, the Versifier discusses the Problem of Partisanship and its effect on our aesthetic Judgement. He addresses the bleak Tone of the Film and unpoetic Quality of Nolan’s Dialogue while discussing its many Strengths. He then names further Weaknesses, suggests that this is less an Epic than a Greek Tragedy based on Homer, or even perhaps a kind of Northern Saga. He also implies that these very Deviations from Homer might in Time become part of the eternal Matter of Troy. Yet he calls for more Films that give us, not an applicable Message, but a new World, which alone has the power to broaden our Sympathies and make us new People. If you want to read this review in verse, you can find it on my Substack, which is here: Pipkin's Miscellany. You can subscribe for free. But how does this connect to the Inklings? Well, Tolkien also used rhyming couplets when he wanted to make a point or two to his friend C.S. Lewis about how myths work. So there's that.  I'll see you all soon for a deep dive into C.S. Lewis' longest work.  By the way, the music throughout is from the soundtrack to The Odyssey, which is very good.

Chris talks with Jonathan Geltner about the best (but still flawed) adaptation of The Hobbit. Get ready for...your greatest adventure! Among other things, we discuss: 1:32 — The 1977 NBC broadcast 2:31 — Childhood memories of the cartoon 5:48 — Rankin/Bass as directors 5:58 — Rankin's "no additions" philosophy 6:15 — Top Craft & the Studio Ghibli connection 7:39 — Music & the folk singer-songwriter style 8:11 — Critical reception & Hugo nomination 8:36 — What the adaptation kept vs. omitted 9:00 — Songs as background vs. foreground 12:10 — "Greatest Adventure" as anti-escapist message 20:01 — Fantasy's cultural status in the 1970s 21:59 — The Hobbit's cohesion vs. "episodic" label 25:57 — Bilbo's shifting narrative voice in Mirkwood 27:57 — Mirkwood: the weakest section 32:01 — Omitting Beorn & the Arkenstone's consequences 41:07 — Character designs: what works, what doesn't 46:54 — The Wood Elves' unusual look 51:59 — Star Wars, fantasy, and mainstream credibility 55:29 — Tolkien's "long ago in the quiet of the world" 1:00:53 — Oral storytelling tradition vs. film immersion 1:01:44 — One swap: what would you put back? 1:06:30 — Mental visualization & imaginative experience   To read Jonathan's Substack, click here: https://jonathangeltner.substack.com/ To read my (far less illustrious) Substack, click here: https://pipkinsmiscellany.substack.com/ To buy Jonathan's first book, click here: https://slantbooks.org/books/absolute-music/ To email me, click [email protected]

Friend of the show Connor Salter joins me to talk about his new book, The Other Inklings, a book of interviews with current Inklings scholars about C.S. Lewis, Charles Williams, Owen Barfield, and other figures connected with their circle(s). Among other things, we discuss:  3:44 About the book 4:39 How the book came to be 9:58 Why these scholars & figures? 14:28 Tolkien's English Catholicism 17:20 George MacDonald & Chesterton as influences 21:29 Why so much focus on William Lindsay Gresham? 24:59 Gresham, Joy Davidman & Dianetics 28:20 Surprising finds: Charles Williams & moral failure 30:06 Separating the art from the artist 35:47 Most formative scholar: Joe Ricke 37:32 Owen Barfield & anthroposophy 46:01 Barfield's "evolution of consciousness" 48:55 The Victorian Occult Revival 53:47 Outro & book plug 56:08 Deleted Scenes In other news--I have a Substack, now, where I talk about a wide variety of things. Feel free to subscribe. As always, if you like the show, please rate it on iTunes. And feel free to drop me a line anytime at [email protected]. I'd love to hear from you.

Chris talks with Jonathan Geltner and Eric Geddes about Owen Barfield's fairy tale, The Silver Trumpet--which has the distinction of being the first fairy tale written by an Inkling. Among other things, we discuss: Introduction (2:46) — The book, its context, and the new illustrated edition The Coat of Arms & the Faust Epigraph (10:41) — "Two souls dwell in my breast" The Twin Princesses (9:45) — Violetta, Gamboy, and the enchantment of Ms. Thompson The Silver Trumpet (21:46) — Prince Courtesy arrives; the trumpet's effect on both sisters Gamboy's Plot (34:43) — Revolution, the toad costume, and the death of Queen Violetta Prince Peerio & Princess Lily (43:09) — The second generation; falling in love with a portrait Overcoming the Toad (48:37) — Ms. Thompson's wisdom; Barfield's Goethean view of nature The Resolution (57:08) — Lily kisses the toad; the doppelganger reunited Music & Re-enchantment (1:04:49) — The five fiddlers scene Romance as a Self-Aware Genre (55:30) — Irony, editorial intrusion, and the storyteller's social occasion Why This Book, Why Now? (1:11:28) — *The Silver Trumpet* as the imaginative complement to *Poetic Diction* Closing Thoughts (1:27:17) Next: The Other Inklings with Connor Salter!

Chris chats with Liz Zenger, program manager of The Inklings Project, which provides resources for professors, teachers, and other groups developing Inklings-related courses. Also, by way of update, this just in from Liz herself:  This is currently live for 6-12 teachers! Goes along with your second to last question of the podcast :-)   Call for Proposals Inklings Project Fellowship for 6-12 Teachers Applications can be submitted via this link until Aug 1, 2026.     For the first time in its history, the Inklings Project, under the University of Notre Dame's McGrath Institute for Church Life, is opening its fellowship to middle school and high school educators. Previous cohorts have drawn from college and university faculty; this new two-year cohort, beginning in Fall 2026, will be made up of those who educate in grades 6–12. Middle and high school is when many readers first encounter C. S. Lewis and J. R. R. Tolkien—and where an educator’s love for these authors can ripple outward to students, parents, and an entire school community. View the Call for Proposals or visit www.inklingsproject.org/apply for more information on the fellowship and application requirements. Applications can be submitted via this link until August 1, 2026.   Among other things, we discuss: What The Inklings Project is (~0:53) — Liz explains the initiative: supporting faculty to create Inklings courses, providing grants, and building fellowship through a cohort model. The Wade Center at Wheaton College (~4:10) — The in-person annual gathering for fellows, housing original manuscripts, Tolkien's desk, Lewis's wardrobe, etc. Diverse faculty backgrounds (~6:30) — How professors from biology, business, public relations, and other non-literary fields are teaching Inklings courses, and why that breadth matters. The origin story of the project (~10:20) — Liz traces it from a CS Lewis course she took as a freshman at Brown, to founding a student society, to pitching the idea to Notre Dame's McGrath Institute. The challenge of reading loads & expanding to high schools (~17:30) — How professors handle the sheer volume of Inklings material, and the project's potential future cohort for high school and homeschool teachers. Next Week: At long last, The Silver Trumpet!

Dr. Luke Mills joins me to talk about his article "His Dark Materials," as well as C.S. Lewis' nightmare imagery across his fiction. Among other things, we discuss: [2:08] – Welcome & guest introduction: Dr. Luke Mills, Associate Professor of English at Wingate University [2:57] – Dr. Mills's article: "His Dark Materials: C.S. Lewis's Nightmares as Inspiration" [4:10] – What drew Mills to the topic: Lewis's dreams of lions and the writing of Narnia [5:09] – Lewis's diary (All My Road Before Me) and the wolf-and-sheep nightmare (April 27, 1923) [6:13] – Reading of the wolf-and-sheep nightmare [7:07] – Lewis as an author of both heavenly beauty and horror [7:41] – The Unman in Perelandra and Lewis's vivid portrayal of evil [8:39] – How common were nightmares for Lewis? Insects, specters, and a lifelong pattern [10:29] – Lewis near death: vivid dreams and beautiful visions [11:38] – Etymology of "dream" and "nightmare" (Old English roots) [12:07] – Did Lewis think his dreams were spiritually significant? [12:46] – The Dark Tower and J.W. Dunne's Experiment with Time: precognitive dreams [15:21] – Lewis, Tolkien, and their shared interest in time and dreams [16:29] – Lewis's belief in precognitive dreams and his complicated relationship with Dunne's theories [17:22] – The Dark Tower: the chronoscope and alternate timelines [20:01] – Dreams as portals to other realities; Lewis's strong belief in the supernatural [22:07] – Lewis's imaginative receptivity; running toward and away from something [24:09] – Preface to Paradise Lost, letting the "leash slip," and Lewis's portrayal of evil [26:13] – Other nightmare imagery in Lewis: The Last Battle, Perelandra, That Hideous Strength [27:31] – Ransom's strange dream in Perelandra; the Unman as absurdist horror [30:17] – Lewis and the word "un-man": dreams about his dead father and Perelandra's antagonist [32:24] – Lewis's horror of corpses; childhood trauma of seeing his mother's body [34:10] – Zombie squirrels and a digression to Grove City College [37:11] – Are Lewis's nightmares demonic? Dreams of lions before Narnia [38:24] – Lewis, modernism, surrealism, and the via negativa [40:21] – Till We Have Faces: modernist technique and divinely sent nightmares [43:03] – Aslan as terrifying: the scratch in The Horse and His Boy [46:09] – Mark in the Objective Room at N.I.C.E.: nightmarish images turning him toward the good [47:12] – Closing thoughts; terror and the uncanny as paths toward the good [50:07] – Where to follow Dr. Mills; current research on Lewis's library at UNC (including Lewis's marginalia) As always, if you want to get in touch, email me at [email protected] Rate the show if you like it and haven't rated it yet.

Chris talks a bit about his first scholarly book, Monster Relics in Medieval English Literature, and what it has to do with Jimmy Stewart sneaking a Yeti finger past customs. You can find it here. Be sure to enter the promo code "RELICS20" to get it for $40 rather than $50 before August 20.  A new full episode will appear Tuesday!

Dr. Leslie Baynes returns to the podcast to talk about biblical and literary allusions in (and origins of) The Magician's Nephew! If you haven't already, check out her book, Between Interpretation and Imagination: C.S. Lewis and the Bible. Among other things, we discuss:  1:37 — Introductions Chris introduces Dr. Leslie Baynes — NT scholar, author on CS Lewis and the Bible. 3:30 — Stars, Singing & Job 38 Discussion of how Aslan's creation song echoes Job 38 ("the morning stars sang together"). Lewis loved this verse even as a teenage atheist. 6:07 — Hebrew Poetic Parallelism Leslie explains Hebrew poetic parallelism and the connection between "stars" and "sons of God" in Job. How this idea — that stars are divine beings — was widespread in the ancient world. 9:09 — Stars as Minor Gods in Narnia & Tolkien Voyage of the Dawn Treader's Ramandu as a retired star; comparison to Tolkien's Ainur singing creation into existence in the Silmarillion. 11:58 — E. Nesbit as a Source for Lewis Lewis openly based the Chronicles on E. Nesbit's children's books. The frame story of The Magician's Nephew (sick mother, absent father, magical adventure, happy resolution) follows Nesbit's formula exactly. 18:04 — The Wood Between the Worlds & Charn These sections feel less biblical; Charn likely drawn from Nesbit's The Amulet (children traveling through time to an ancient Near Eastern setting). The Wood Between the Worlds echoes Lewis's Mere Christianity hallway metaphor. 23:03 — Jadis/White Witch & Lilith Luke Mills found a passage in the medieval kabbalistic Alphabet of Ben Sira linking Lilith to a golden bell — possible indirect influence on Lewis's Witch origin story. 26:08 — Narnia's Creation vs. Genesis Aslan creates stars first — Lewis "correcting" the light-before-sun problem in Genesis 1. Frank and Helen as Adam & Eve; their children marrying nymphs and dryads resolves the "who did Cain marry?" puzzle. 31:22 — The Garden of the Hesperides The western garden in The Magician's Nephew blends the Garden of Eden with the Greek Garden of the Hesperides (Atlas's daughters, golden apples, a guardian dragon/serpent). Lewis changed the apples to silver — possibly echoing Yeats's "silver apples of the moon." 34:45 — Milton's Comus & Watchful Dragons Lewis adored Comus as a teenager. His famous "past watchful dragons" metaphor connects to the guardian dragon of the Hesperides (who keeps people away from the apples), inverting the Eden serpent (who tempts people toward the fruit). 39:48 — Joy, West, and the Last Battle The western garden = "Joy" (sehnsucht) for Lewis. In The Last Battle, the characters run west, then turn east to their final home — fulfilling joy rather than endlessly pursuing it. Same arc as The Pilgrim's Regress. 42:25 — Lewis as a "Magpie" Creator Lewis freely borrowed from everything — Nesbit, Milton, Job, the Hesperides — without apology. Discussion of his view (in Mere Christianity) that true originality comes from surrender to God, not self-invention. 45:43 — Pagan vs. Christian — A False Split Lewis (like Justin Martyr) believed all truth is God's truth. Anything good in "pagan" sources can be integrated into a Christian worldview — rejecting the idea that they must be kept entirely separate.

Jonathan Geltner and Luke Mills rejoin me to finish talking about The Magician's Nephew.  Meanwhile, Narnian troubadour Matt Wheeler joins us to share "Awake, Awake!"--the first of his seven songs from Narnia! More details to come, but here's a quick summary of what we discuss: Introduction & Reading 0:00 — Opening dramatic reading from The Magician's Nephew (Digory before Aslan) Host & Guest Introductions 2:12 — Pipkin introduces Dr. Luke Mills and Jonathan Gelter; Jonathan's MFA program plug and novel update Story Recap 3:39 — Summary of the book up to the current chapters (Charn, Jadis, Narnia's creation, lamppost origin) Is Narnia "Fallen"? 6:34 — Discussion of Digory's guilt, the nature of Narnia's corruption, and parallels to Paradise Lost and Eden Digory's Culpability 10:37 — Was Digory truly at fault? The enchanted bell, Aslan's judgment, and Jonathan's "defense counsel" argument The Comic Sections: Animals & Uncle Andrew 15:40 — Critiquing Lewis's humor; Barfield's observation about Lewis's "undergraduate" comedy; Tolkien comparisons The Cabby as First King of Narnia 20:21 — Why a working-class Cockney? Anti-urban sentiment in Lewis, WWI's influence, rural vs. city themes, and comparison to Sam Gamgee Lewis, Tolkien & Shared Mythological Ideas 26:53 — Overlapping motifs (singing creation, protective trees, the rings); did Lewis borrow from Tolkien? The Winged Horse & the Garden of Hesperides 27:56 — Aslan's tears scene; the walled garden and its inscription; parallels to Galadriel and the One Ring Trees in Mythology & Religion 29:14 — Sacred trees across world cultures: Norse, Celtic, Greek, Irish paradise mythology, apples, and forests Musical Guest: Matt Wheeler 36:19 — Original song inspired by Aslan's creation of Narnia; discussion of the source passage Jadis Eats the Apple & the White Salt Image 46:05 — Jadis's "white as salt" description; what it conveys about her character and the apple's dark gift Character of Jadis / The White Witch 53:32 — Her name (French "jadis" = "once upon a time"), Lilith parallels, satanic motivation, and the "dem fine woman" ending Allegory, Plot Holes & Medieval Parallels 56:49 — Lewis's inconsistent allegory, Dante vs. Bunyan, and how medieval authors simply didn't care about plot consistency The Ending: Digory's Mother, Uncle Andrew, and Redemption 1:01:27 — The apple healing his mother, Aslan's beatific vision, Uncle Andrew's comic/bittersweet conclusion, and the wardrobe's origin Platonic Themes & the Wood Between the Worlds 1:06:41 — Aslan's Platonism, the multiverse question, ontological status of the secondary worlds, and the reference to Plato in The Last Battle Netflix Adaptation Discussion 1:12:53 — Concerns about Greta Gerwig's adaptation; what changes would actually be welcome; Polly & Digory's relationship Closing Remarks & What's Next 1:18:03 — Wrap-up, acknowledgments, upcoming Silver Trumpet episode

Chris welcomes back friend of the show Eric Geddes to talk about the second part of The Magician's Nephew.  Among other things, we discuss the following: Uncle Andrew's adult silliness Jadis, Hempress of Colney 'Atch! Why the Wood Between the Worlds affects Jadis the way it does Digory v. Edmund and Eustace Uncle Andrew and Renaissance Magic The Cabby's Hymn The Songs of Aslan Mixing of Mythologies Witches v. Hags in Narnia Enjoy! I'll be back in two weeks to talk about The Magician's Nephew, Part 3, with Jonathan Geltner and Luke Mills!

Happy Sixth Season of The Inklings Variety Hour! Would you like a present to mark the occasion? One of these fine rings, perhaps? No, not the green ones. No, I don't care if it's St. Patrick's Day. You. Can't. Have. The. Green. Ones.  But have a yellow ring. No, seriously, go for it. Why are you hesitating? But that's preposterous. They won't make you disappear. What do you think this is, The Hobbit? Why does it always come back to rings? I say none of this on today's episode, but perhaps it's that the Inklings knew that rings bind you to someone else. Or something else.  In this case, the Wood Between the Worlds? Or Faerie? Or to your evil and intimidating uncle who is a mad magician-scientist with a furnished room that you don't know about and a dead fairy godmother named Mrs. Lefay? What's up with the strange parallels in this book, anyway? You've got children in England exploring inside because it's rainy. You've got Uncle Andrew and Jadis making essentially the same speeches. You've also got the wood between the worlds and the crawlspace between houses, as well as the troubling ways in which Digory resembles his uncle--both of whom, by the way, end up technically responsible for sending children to another world when they're old men. But what kind of an old man who sends children into peril will Digory grow up to be? The sort who thinks rules don't apply to him, or the sort who makes endless inside jokes with himself about Plato? Character matters. To talk about some of these riddles, or at least allude to them as we talk about things that are probably more interesting, I have Dr. Luke Mills. Join us on a whirlwind tour through Edwardian England, tunnels behind houses, Guinea Pig paradises that maybe aren't good for humans, and desolate worlds with very strange women among very strange waxworks that definitely aren't good for humans. (Seriously, though, what are the waxworks?) This may be your last chance to travel to Charn before Netflix ruins it forever with Pink Floyd or the 1950s or whatever-the-[deplorable word] a Barbie auteur wants to put in there. Among other things, Luke and Chris talk about the figure of Lilith--and why this account of Jadis' origin may not differ so much from that given in The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe. We also discuss ways to tell whether or not that special someone in your life may not, in fact, be evil. Let's dive in! Or wonder, till it drives you mad, what would have followed...etc., etc.

O.G. Host Anika Smith rejoins the podcast to interview Chris and his beautiful and omnicompetent wife, Glencora, about their new Christmas resource book, Twelve Tide.  Part of what we're trying to do with this book is make Christmas less a single-morning present binge preceded by anxiety and followed by anticlimax--and more a season of twelve days of giving, feasting, and learning to celebrate better. Want an idea of what's in the book? Check out our website, 12tide.com. It is likely that if you order now, you will not receive the book before Christmas, but you can find all of the content on our website and order the book (if you like) in time for subsequent days of Christmas (the season lasts until January 6, after all).  We are all Niatirbians now (and Lewis was dismayed by godless Christmas cards).  We want to reconcile sacred and "secular" aspects of Christmas and equip people with some old ways to celebrate this season.  Music from this episode includes: George Winston's "The Holly and the Ivy" Bing Crosby's "It's Beginning to Look a Lot Like Christmas" Loreena McKennitt's "The Holly and the Ivy" Choir of Christchurch's "Hark! The Herald Angels Sing" Loreena McKennitt's "Gloucestershire Wassail" The Chieftains' "Boar's Head Carol" Maddy Prior's "Coventry Carol" Medieval Baebes' "Adam Lay Ybounden" Maddy Prior's "Wassail!" Also, if you're interested in the Twelve Tide Spotify list Anika suggested on the show, here it is. Stay tuned...I'm done with grading and I'm turning my attention to an Inklings Christmas Carol.  Won't be easy to finish in time, but I'll do my level best.  If you are interested in reading a part for it, feel free to email me at [email protected] God bless and keep you this Advent Season. See you at Christmas!

All three parts of 2023's Christmas play are edited together. Enjoy, and Merry Christmas. Previous description: Enjoy a (Zoom) table reading of my "play" (loosely defined), "An Inklings Christmas Carol."   Special thanks to Anika Smith, Sørina Higgins, Joe Hoffman, and Ed Powell for reading this episode.  Thanks in general to Sørina's Author's Circle, which you can find out more about (and even join) here.  Hope you enjoy it--keep in mind this is a first draft, none of us are professional actors, and I'm not making a cent off this episode! As with any holiday movie or play, if you keep your expectations low, you'll have a pretty good time! Feel free to send me feedback at [email protected].  And please rate the show if you like it! By the way, if you want more Christmas resources from the Pipkins, you can find our Christmas site here: https://12tide.com/