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Dan Brown is the kind of person who will walk into your organization, look at your product, and immediately see the structural problems nobody else will name — because he's been doing exactly that for enterprise teams for over two decades. After 18 years co-founding 8Shapes, he now runs Curious Squid Design Lab, where he focuses on product information architecture and the deep craft work that most teams are too rushed to do. In this episode of The UX Level-Up Podcast, Sophia and Dan get into a tension that's been building for years — information architects and product designers are working in the same problem space and barely talking to each other, and AI is about to make that very, very expensive. They talk about what actually goes wrong on teams that skip the structural work, why the frenzy to use AI tools is adding pressure instead of removing it, and what Dan said at a recent workshop that made Sophia write it down on the spot. LINKS: Dan's newsletter, Spilling Ink: https://curioussquid.substack.com/ The Unchecked Podcast: https://unchecked.buzzsprout.com/ Connect with Dan on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/danmbrown/ Find out more about Dan: https://www.curious-squid.com Continue the conversation in the OOUX Forum: https://forum.ooux.com/posts/dan-brown-product-ia-with-ai-as-the-ultimate-level-up Connect with Sophia on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sophiav/ Follow Sophia on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/sophiavux/ Check out the OOUX Website: https://ooux.com Follow Sophia on Medium: https://sophiavux.medium.com Interested in training your team on OOUX? Book a call here: https://calendly.com/ooux/opportunity Get on the Cohort 12 waitlist: https://ooux.com/certification

Angie King went from contractor to VP of UX Design at US Bank in five years — not because she had all the answers, but because she was the person in the room asking the right questions. She's now the content strategy manager at Mayo Clinic, where she's putting the ORCA framework to work on one of the most complex content systems in healthcare. In this episode of The UX Level-Up Podcast, Sophia and Angie get into what it actually looks like when a veteran content strategist finds a framework that finally clicks — and why Angie believes it's not just career-changing, but field-changing. If you've ever felt like the smartest person in a conversation but struggled to explain why something was off, this episode is for you. Note: Angie King appeared on this episode in her individual professional capacity. Any views, stories, or experiences shared in this conversation are Angie’s own and should not be interpreted as official positions of Mayo Clinic. LINKS: Register for Angie’s Button Conference Talk: https://www.buttonevents.com/2026-sessions/object-oriented-ux-a-content-first-approach-to-meaningful-content-design Connect with Angie on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/angieking/ Continue the conversation in the OOUX Forum: Connect with Sophia on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sophiav/ Follow Sophia on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/sophiavux/ Check out the OOUX Website: https://ooux.com Follow Sophia on Medium: https://sophiavux.medium.com Interested in training your team on OOUX? Book a call here: https://calendly.com/ooux/opportunity Get on the Cohort 12 waitlist: https://ooux.com/certification Check out Zoe: https://ooux.com/zoe

Sophia Prater is the founder of OOUX and the creator of the ORCA process, a practical system for untangling complexity and designing more intuitive digital products. In this episode of the podcast, Sophia shares what she’s learning from Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi’s book Flow, why so many status quo UX practices actually keep designers stuck between boredom and overwhelm, and how ORCA helps create the conditions for deeper focus, clearer thinking, and more intrinsically rewarding work. She also explores the six ingredients of flow state, why UX often thwarts them, and how AI can either support or sabotage the kind of meaningful problem-solving designers are really hungry for.LINKS:Get access to the Free Training here Join the OOUX Forum Connect with ME on LinkedIn Message me on Instagram and tell me what you think Continue the Conversation in the Forum

Jon Alderink is a UX consultant with experience in Industrial IoT, where he’s worked on complex machine software systems, and he previously worked at Twist Think. He has also worked as a color artist for Marvel and DC, and recently created his own website, Norn Forge, where he’s been experimenting with OOUX, AI workflows, and connected tools. In this episode of the podcast, Sophia and Jon talk about why AI can generate screens but still struggles to design the system underneath, how OOUX helped Jon’s team move faster and make better product decisions, and how designers can use tools like Notion, Claude, and schema markup without offloading the critical thinking that makes their work valuable. LINKS: Be one of our Scholars! Connect with Jon on LinkedIn Check out Jon’s Website - Norn Forge Continue the conversation in the OOUX Forum

Meghan Logan is a Lead Product Designer at Stripe, and her work sits at the intersection of systems thinking, systems architecture, product strategy, and neurodiverse thinking. She also speaks at conferences about how design frameworks can better support neurodivergent brains and create safer, more effective ways of working. In this episode of the podcast, Sophia and Meghan talk about Meghan’s ADHD diagnosis and the masking that so many neurodivergent designers experience at work, why OOUX and ORCA can feel like such a safe and clarifying framework for ambiguous design problems, and how structured systems thinking can help designers communicate better, reduce bias, and create more inclusive products. LINKS: Register for The UX Level Up Live Connect with Meghan on LinkedIn Check out Meghan’s Medium! Listen to Meghan’s Talk Podcast with Karen Hewell on applying OOUX to your own inner world Continue the conversation in the forum!

Mandi Geiselman has worked as Senior UX Designer at Autodesk, where she designs for complex media & entertainment tools (like Maya and 3DS Max), and she is an Advanced OOUX Strategist who’s created resources on building an OOUX community of practice inside big organizations. In this episode of the podcast, Sophia and Mandi talk about OOUXing Horizon Forbidden West, why game UX isn’t about “making it easy,” and how bases, extensions, and conditional logic can make even the most complex systems more understandable (and more shareable for teams). LINKS: Join the OOUX Forum Connect with Mandi 💪 Get access to the free training and get 20 strategies to level up your UX practice! OOUX.com/levelup Continue the conversation in the forum

In this short solo episode, Sophia shares a big mistake she made in 2025 — one that directly contradicts a core OOUX principle she teaches. Using real examples from EdTech, Mighty Networks, and OOUX’s own course offerings, she breaks down the problem of overlapping objects and the three ways teams can handle them: combine, differentiate, or live with confusion. She also announces an important shift in how OOUX training will be structured moving forward — and why this change makes things clearer for everyone. LINKS: OOUX Forum (free to join) OOUX Website OOUX Newsletter The Self-Paced OOUX Masterclass 3.0 Continue the Conversation at the OOUX Forum

Elena Haskins is the founder of Anele UX Studio, where she helps B2B companies design clearer, more intuitive software across industries ranging from early-stage startups to enterprise giants like Prudential, Party City, and the NFL. She’s also an Advanced OOUX Certified practitioner—one of the earliest Cohorts to complete the training—and a sought-after workshop facilitator known for making complex OOUX concepts feel accessible, even fun. In this episode of the podcast, Sophia and Elena dig into how to teach OOUX without overwhelming people, why asking sharper questions can instantly elevate your UX practice, and how Elena bridges the gap between designers and developers using a stripped-down, practical ORCA workflow. They also explore client-friendly documentation, role-based prioritization, and Elena’s signature philosophy: people stick around when you make them feel smarter—not confused. Links: Connect with Elena on LinkedIn Check out Elena's Website Read "A List Apart: Object-Oriented UX" Article Explore the Throughline Conference program (Jan 29–30) - throughlineconf.com - Use the discount code: OOUX50 (get $50 off) Continue the conversation on the OOUX Forum!

Allie Ofisher has worked as a UX consultant for complex systems, served as the lead instructor for the Representation Round in the OOUX Foundations program, and is a Certified Advanced OOUX Strategist. She’s also one of the core contributors to the newly refilmed OOUX Masterclass, leading the way on rethinking CTA Representation and object integrity.In this episode of the podcast, Sophia and Allie talk about how broken CTAs sabotage UX (and trust), why screen-first design leads to bloated prototypes and stakeholder distractions, and how to align affordances across object views without creating chaos.LINKS: Allie Ofisher ⁠https://www.allieofisher.com/⁠• Connect with Allie Ofisher on LinkedIn ⁠https://www.linkedin.com/in/allieofisher⁠• OOUX We did it Again ⁠https://www.youtube.com/@OOUXwediditagain⁠ Continue the conversation on the OOUX Forum!

Ryan Young and Kayla Ferris are Certified OOUX Strategists and UX leaders at P3+Uplift, an IT consulting firm based in Des Moines, Iowa. Ryan serves as Senior Director of Product and Design, while Kayla is a UX and Product Designer and mentor for the OOUX Certification Program. In this episode of the UX Level-Up Podcast, Sophia talks with Ryan and Kayla about how OOUX became P3’s “test-driven design” process, why it helps them ramp up on complex projects at lightning speed, and how mapping objects with clients—even those with PhDs in microbiology—turns confusion into clarity. They also share real stories of saving weeks of rework and being told they knew more about their clients’ businesses than ten-year veterans. LINKS: A List Apart: Object-Oriented UX — https://alistapart.com/article/object-oriented-ux/ Learn more about OOUX Certification — https://ooux.com/certification Continue the conversation on the OOUX Forum!

Allie Ofisher is a UX designer and consultant with deep roots in systems thinking, visual design, and user research. She’s worked with countless teams to help them understand what they’re building, why they’re building it, and how to bring clarity to complex products using OOUX. As the lead steward of the Representation Round at OOUX, Allie brings her sharp visual eye and her obsession with relationships, context, and user mental models to everything she touches.In this episode of the UX Level Up Podcast, Sophia and Allie dig into Relationship Representation—how to avoid isolated objects, why contextual navigation matters more than top-down menus, and how Nested Object Matrixes (NOM) unlock innovation, break down silos, and transform collaboration with product owners and developers. They explore how disconnected UI patterns often point to deeper organizational issues, how research questions reveal real user needs, and how OOUX gives teams a shared language for designing systems that actually think the way users think. LINKS: Check out Allie's website Connect with Allie on LinkedIn Catch up on episodes of OOUX We did it Again The Self-Paced OOUX Masterclass 3.0 is coming soon! Join the waitlist now for a black Friday surprise! Continue the conversation on the OOUX Forum!

Allie Ofisher has worked as a UX consultant across AgTech and nonprofit product spaces, teaches the OOUX Representation Round in Foundations, and co-hosts the YouTube series “OOUX: We Did It Again.” In this episode of the podcast, Sophia and Allie talk about using OOUX since 2020 to navigate the trickiest projects, why designing against the four UX “fails” (especially masked objects) helps teams onboard and audit existing products quickly, and how reverse-engineering Representation first—with intentional choices in shapes, labels, and attributes—keeps designs clear and resilient. LINKS: Allie Ofisher https://www.allieofisher.com/• Connect with Allie Ofisher on LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/allieofisher• OOUX We did it Again https://www.youtube.com/@OOUXwediditagain Continue the conversation on the OOUX Forum!

In this 12th installment of the ORCA Series, Jake Z is back to wrap up the Prioritization Round with Attribute Prioritization. In this episode we discuss content clashes, marketing demands, and how to align across teams when everyone wants their data front and center. LINKS: Check out Jake's previous appearances on the UX Level Up Podcast: 079 - ORCA Series #11 - CTA Prioritization 077 - ORCA Series #10 - Relationship Prioritization 038 - OOUX at Hello Fresh with Jake Zukowski Join the waitlist for the Self-Paced OOUX Masterclass 3.0! Continue the conversation on the OOUX Forum!

After leading a major gov site launch, Philippe Fara is back to share how OOUX helped him deliver better outcomes with less chaos. From mastering the ORCA Process to mentoring others, he spills the tea on scaling UX strategy, building confidence, and making complexity intuitive. OOUX LINKS: Check out Philippe's last appearance on the UX Level-Up Podcast! Admire Philippe's work on Renfrewshire.gov.uk Join the waitlist for the Self-Paced OOUX Masterclass! Continue the conversation on the OOUX Forum!

Jobs To Be Done meets Object-Oriented UX! Sophia and JTBD legend, Jim Kalbach, nerd out on frameworks, the magic of teaching to learn, and evolving your process. It’s a fun, honest convo about clarity, complexity, and cringey first diagrams. Enjoy! #UX #JTBD # OOUXLINKS: Check out the JTBD Toolkit! Connect with Jim on LinkedIn Join OOUX Foundations! Discuss this episode in the OOUX Forum!