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Playing With Fire

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Rating
★★★★★
4.9
from
84 reviews
This podcast has
268 episodes
Language
English
Publisher
Joli Hamilton
Explicit
No
Date created
2020/11/17
Latest episode
2026/10/31
Average duration
57 min.
Release period
9 days

Description

Welcome to Playing With Fire, the podcast for people who are ready to custom-build their love. We’re talking about non-monogamy–however you design it–as an individuation opportunity. Want to leave the default and make your life spectacularly you? You’re in the right place.

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Check latest episodes from Playing With Fire podcast


263 Creative, Conscious, Chosen Monogamy
2026/10/31
Choosing monogamy on purpose is very different from defaulting, or being forced, into it. So what does it actually take to choose monogamy with real agency? This is we call creative monogamy: a relationship built around monogamy but custom-designed by the two people in it. The tools we're handed for monogamy–like unspoken expectations and agreements–don't stretch very far. But the skills of non-monogamy translate beautifully back to monogamy. And once you've started asking questions, there's no real "going back" to default monogamy. The more interesting question is whether your monogamy is consciously chosen, and whether it supports your differentiation and individuation. In this episode, we talk about: — Why you don't need non-monogamy to do individuation work (and why default monogamy rarely invites it) — Why non-monogamy skills translate to monogamy, but monogamy's default tools don't stretch the other way — The difference between default monogamy and conscious, consciously chosen monogamy — How much distance from the cultural story of monogamy you need to truly choose it, without having to practice anything else — Why "forever" turns monogamy into a one-way door and what that does to agency and ongoing consent — Why monogamy with a built-in time frame or review date feels different in the body — What's actually exclusive about your relationship, and why exclusivity usually assumes it will never change — What "emotional affairs" are often pointing to, and why talking about trust and meaning works better than policing friendships — Why agreements matter most as the ongoing conversations that make expectations visible, in any relationship structure — How hidden expectations like "firsts" show up for monogamous and non-monogamous couples alike — Practicing differentiation in a closed relationship: the difference between telling your partner what they can do and sharing what you're willing to take in — Why the lens of multiplicity keeps you from flattening your partner (or yourself) into one consistent person — What creative monogamy is, and why designing it on purpose can make monogamy even more committed — How to start: getting clear on your bottom-line requirements around monogamy and building in regular check-ins and renegotiation Resources mentioned in this episode: — Episode 56: Creative Monogamy JOIN The Year Of Opening® community for a full year of learning & support Learn the 5 secrets to open your relationship the smart way Are you ready to open your relationship happily? Find out at www.JoliQuiz.com Get the answers you want to create the open relationship of your dreams! Sign up for a Playing With Fire Community Call here Music: Dance of Felt by ⁠Blue Dot Sessions
262 My Partner Isn’t as Excited as I Am: Asymmetry in the Opening Process
2026/10/24
Opening a relationship rarely involves both people feeling the exact same level of excitement at all times. And that asymmetry in energy, enthusiasm, readiness, and initiative can bring up a whole host of confusing questions and challenging dynamics. We see this all the time. One person has a deeper inspiration, and the other person is receptive, but not as enthusiastic or motivated. This is totally normal. But our mono-normative culture reinforces narratives about who has the “good deal” and who has the “bad deal,” who’s responsible for all the hard stuff, and who gets to just enjoy the benefits. But here's the thing: trying to force symmetry into an inherently asymmetric situation doesn't work. Nature itself runs on asymmetry. The real work is learning to engage with the asymmetry rather than fighting against it – and that means both people taking radical responsibility for their own journey, their own consent, and their own growth. In this episode, we talk about: — Why asymmetric energy between partners is completely normal when opening a relationship — The difference between endogenous inspiration versus receiving the idea from a partner — How the stories we tell ourselves about this asymmetry can either bring us together or drive us apart — Why the person with initiating energy doesn't automatically become "good at" non-monogamy — The trap of trying to restore symmetry and why it's unnatural (and ultimately impossible) — How asymmetry can flip over time – and why the initiating partner often struggles when their "stable foundation" starts exploring too — The critical importance of engaged, enthusiastic, informed consent – even when you're not the inspired partner — Why enthusiasm in consent doesn't mean you have to like everything, and what it means instead — How taking ownership of your own learning process (rather than relying on your partner to teach you everything) is essential — The reality that paradigm shifts take 3-5 years of active participation – and then the rest of your life — Why making space for difference doesn't mean the relationship is failing — How to find your own motivation for this journey, even if you weren't the one who brought the idea forward — The beautiful possibility of being fully present and authentic even if the relationship ends or transforms completely JOIN The Year Of Opening® community for a full year of learning & support Learn the 5 secrets to open your relationship the smart way Are you ready to open your relationship happily? Find out at www.JoliQuiz.com Get the answers you want to create the open relationship of your dreams! Sign up for a Playing With Fire Community Call here Music: Dance of Felt by ⁠Blue Dot Sessions
261 Can You Love More Than One Person and Still Feel Secure? Love, Grief, and Growth with Lunarosa Peralta
2026/10/17
When your partner falls in love with someone else, becomes a parent, or moves through profound grief during a breakup, you witness a transformation that has nothing to do with you. Except, as a witness, it also has the potential to affect you, and your relationships, profoundly. This week, we're joined by Lunarosa Peralta, a Xhicana therapist and poet specializing in consensual non-monogamy, kink, and sex worker affirming care. She brings both professional expertise and deeply personal experience to this conversation, having recently navigated some of the most destabilizing changes imaginable: watching one partner move through engagement, marriage, relocation, and becoming a father, while simultaneously supporting another partner through a painful breakup. What Lunarosa shares is raw, tender, and incredibly valuable. She talks about the grief that lives at the heart of all meaningful change, the work of re-creating your belonging when everything shifts, and why trying to understand your way out of pain might actually be protecting you from what you really need to feel. If you've ever struggled with being the witness to your partner's transformation—or if you're trying to figure out how to hold yourself when no one else can catch you—this conversation will meet you exactly where you are. In this episode, we talk about: — Why opening a relationship might mean you want to "break something" (and what that really means about growth and transformation) — The reality that change will happen in your relationships – and that you can't ask to change your relationship without expecting it to actually change — Why grief is an essential part of navigating non-monogamy, not a sign that something's wrong — The profound experience of watching your partner become deeply alive through someone else — What it means to be a witness versus being witnessed, and why you need more than one person to see you — The existential questions that arise when your partner changes — How to re-create your belonging in a relationship after major shifts, rather than trying to preserve what was — The difference between trying to understand your way through pain versus actually allowing yourself to grieve — Why self-witnessing and learning to hold yourself alone is essential muscle-building work — How childhood wounds and past experiences with change can make present transitions feel impossible — The realization that non-monogamy isn't just about sex and fun—it's about becoming more of who you are — Practical tools like grief dinners and community witnessing for processing change — Why "doing non-monogamy well" doesn't mean it won't hurt or be hard Resources mentioned in this episode: — Find Luna Rosa Peralta on Instagram @therapywithlunarosa — Visit Luna's website withlunarosa.com for information about workshops and community events JOIN The Year Of Opening® community for a full year of learning & support Learn the 5 secrets to open your relationship the smart way Are you ready to open your relationship happily? Find out at www.JoliQuiz.com Get the answers you want to create the open relationship of your dreams! Sign up for a Playing With Fire Community Call here Music: Dance of Felt by ⁠Blue Dot Sessions
260 ‘I feel seen… but not by you’ – Metamours, Jealousy, and Differentiation
2026/10/10
Have you ever wondered what your partner looks like through someone else's eyes? It's a question that can bring up a swirl of emotions—curiosity, insecurity, excitement, maybe even panic. But what if that willingness to wonder is actually one of the keys to navigating jealousy and building deeper, more differentiated relationships? This episode dives into the beautiful, messy reality of watching our partners be seen in new ways. We explore how the presence of others (metamours, new partners, even close friends) can expose aspects of our partners we've never encountered, and how that can feel both threatening and liberating. We talk about the ego wobbles, the fear of being left behind, and the grief that comes with accepting that we can never fully know or experience everything about our partners. And we discuss why non-monogamy, for all its challenges, can be powerful medicine for breaking the illusion that we ever could. In this episode, we talk about: — The terror and confusion that can arise when a partner says they feel seen by someone who isn't you — How being seen freshly by someone new can help us discover new facets of ourselves — The fear that a new aspect of your partner won't fit in your relationship, and what to do with that fear — Our own experiences with this phenomenon in the context of kink — Why we can't (and shouldn't try to) replicate every version of our partners in our own relationships with them — The grief and poignancy of accepting that you'll never experience everything with your partner, and why that's actually essential to differentiation — How the illusion of monogamy can keep us from dealing with the reality that our partners are truly other — The tendency to displace discomfort onto metamours instead of sitting with the reality that our partner feels unfamiliar — Why increasing our distress tolerance around our partner's otherness is essential to individuation — How non-monogamy strips away the mirage that we could ever fully know or contain another person — The gift (even when it doesn't feel like one) of being reminded that our partners were never meant to stay inside the bubble of our imagination JOIN The Year Of Opening® community for a full year of learning & support Learn the 5 secrets to open your relationship the smart way Are you ready to open your relationship happily? Find out at www.JoliQuiz.com Get the answers you want to create the open relationship of your dreams! Sign up for a Playing With Fire Community Call here Music: Dance of Felt by ⁠Blue Dot Sessions
259 Getting Unstuck: How a Frozen Imagination Blocks the Relationship You Want
2026/10/03
What if the thing that’s really stopping you from changing your relationships isn’t a lack of motivation or willpower, but a frozen imagination? We all hold internal representations of ourselves, our partners, and our relationships in our minds. This isn’t a bad thing. But when those images remain static, we stop seeing how things actually are and starting interacting with their outdated versions. This prevents us, our partners, and our relationships from accessing aliveness, creative potential, and the opportunity to grow into something new. But we can thaw out these frozen images, and when we do, we open ourselves up to possibilities that we couldn’t have imagined before. In this episode, we talk about: — Why our imaginations of ourselves, our partners, and our relationships gets frozen in the first place — How frozen images can be both protective and limiting at the same time — The difference between intentionally freezing aspects of a relationship temporarily (like during a crisis) versus getting stuck in outdated versions — Why agreements are actually a byproduct of the ongoing work of updating our expectations and images — How emotional heat can help thaw out frozen images — The role of projections in keeping our images of others frozen — Why thawing out doesn't mean the frozen image was "wrong," and what it means instead — How frozen images from childhood and family systems continue to impact our adult relationships — The power of reintroduction rituals and accountability in updating relational images — Why asking "who in me is frozen?" can be more helpful than asking if your whole self-image is frozen — How trauma narratives can become frozen images that need to be inhabited fully before they can be thawed — The ongoing nature of this work and why it's both challenging and delightful Resources mentioned in this episode: — Episode 250 Relationship Re-Imagination: The Framework — Episode 204 Liminality: Your Key to Relationship Paradigm Shifting JOIN The Year Of Opening® community for a full year of learning & support Learn the 5 secrets to open your relationship the smart way Are you ready to open your relationship happily? Find out at www.JoliQuiz.com Get the answers you want to create the open relationship of your dreams! Sign up for a Playing With Fire Community Call here Music: Dance of Felt by ⁠Blue Dot Sessions
258 Patterns of Harm Need Patterns of Repair: Rethinking Closure
2026/09/26
Ever feel like you're having the same conversation about the same hurt over and over again? Yeah, we’ve been there. And the surprising thing is… that's not necessarily a problem. We just did an episode on conflict and how it can actually deepen intimacy (wild, right?). But during that conversation, something came up that deserves its own deep dive: closure. What even is closure? When does repair actually end? And why do some of us need to revisit the same hurts multiple times while others just want to "move on already"? This is where things get tricky. There's often frustration, blame, even shame around the fact that certain wounds keep resurfacing. One partner might feel superior because they can "just get over things," while the other feels broken for needing more time and repetition. But here's what we've learned through our own relationship and through working with hundreds of people: patterns of harm require patterns of repair. And understanding the difference between a loop and a spiral? That changes everything. In this episode, we talk about: — What repair actually means (spoiler: it's way more than just saying "I'm sorry") — The difference between closure and pretending something never happened — Why closure doesn't mean you forget or stop feeling hurt by what happened — How to tell if you're stuck in a loop versus moving through a spiral of growth — Why defensiveness will slam your spiral right back into a circle every single time — The role of changed behavior, accountability, and taking responsibility in true repair — Why some relationships stay stuck — How forgiveness language can sometimes be used to rush past real repair (and why we're cautious about that word) — The reality that you'll always remember significant harms—and that's actually okay — Why bringing up past hurts isn't manipulation—it's often an invitation to deeper knowing — How resentment forms when we pretend to "just get over" things without actually processing them Resources mentioned in this episode: — Our Repair Skills playlist — The Apology and Accountability Ladder JOIN The Year Of Opening® community for a full year of learning & support Learn the 5 secrets to open your relationship the smart way Are you ready to open your relationship happily? Find out at www.JoliQuiz.com Get the answers you want to create the open relationship of your dreams! Sign up for a Playing With Fire Community Call here Music: Dance of Felt by ⁠Blue Dot Sessions
257 Conflict as Growth: Deepening Intimacy through Disagreement
2026/09/19
When we see conflict as a red flag, we pave the way for dishonest ‘peace,’ people pleasing (where no one is actually pleased at all), and emotional walls that try to protect us but end up leaving us isolated and disconnected. The truth is that conflict is not inherently a sign that something is going wrong in the relationship. In fact, generative conflict is the pathway to deeper connection and growth. This conversation gets real about the extremes of dysfunctional conflict (cheap peace and violent disagreement), what generative conflict actually looks like, and how it can bring people together instead of pulling them apart. In this episode, we talk about: — Why conflict isn't a sign that something's wrong with your relationship (and what it actually signals instead) — The spectrum of conflict: from dishonest harmony to violent disharmony, and how to find the generative middle ground — Ken's transformation from conflict-avoidant to someone who can sit in the discomfort with curiosity and patience — How gender dynamics and emotional labor show up in who does the work of naming and navigating conflict — The power of asking "what else is it?" instead of dismissing someone's feelings or getting defensive — Why making space for your partner's inner child (and historical wounds) can be relationship-changing — The difference between taking something personally and taking it on—and how ego strength plays a role — Practical skills that have reduced our conflict duration by 90% (seriously) — Why repair can and should start during the conflict, not just after — How conflict skills become even more essential when you're opening your relationship — The importance of curiosity, vulnerability, and dropping defensiveness when things get heated — Why hypervigilance from childhood can make us defend against there being "more" to a conflict Resources mentioned in this episode: — Our Repair Skills Playlist — Our Imago Dialogue Playlist JOIN The Year Of Opening® community for a full year of learning & support Learn the 5 secrets to open your relationship the smart way Are you ready to open your relationship happily? Find out at www.JoliQuiz.com Get the answers you want to create the open relationship of your dreams! Sign up for a Playing With Fire Community Call here Music: Dance of Felt by ⁠Blue Dot Sessions
256 Leaving High-Demand Religion and Exploring Non-Monogamy with Natasha Helfer
2026/09/12
Leaving high-demand religion isn't just about changing your Sunday morning schedule. It’s about deconstructing a belief system that touches everything in your life. And when you start pulling on this thread, you might find yourself questioning monogamous norms too. These processes can open you up to a wealth of opportunities, but they can also bring a whole lot of uncertainty online. That’s why we're thrilled to bring you this conversation with Natasha Helfer, an AASECT-certified sex therapist supervisor and licensed marriage and family therapist with 30 years of experience working at the intersection of conservative religious upbringing, sexuality, and internalized sexual shame. Natasha was excommunicated from the Mormon church for her advocacy work, so alongside her professional expertise, she brings a wealth of lived experience to this topic. If you've ever struggled with the aftermath of purity culture, if you're deconstructing from high-demand religion while exploring non-monogamy, or if you're supporting someone through this journey, this episode offers validation, insight, and practical frameworks for understanding what's really happening during deconstruction and reconstruction. In this episode, we talk about: — What makes a religion "high-demand" and why sexual behavior monitoring is such a central feature — The difference between being pushed out (excommunication) versus choosing to leave, and why both can be traumatic — Why deconstruction is not a linear process with a clear endpoint — How compulsory monogamy in mainstream culture mirrors compulsory polygamy in fundamentalist communities (and why that realization is so important) — The challenge of doing adolescent developmental work in midlife while simultaneously navigating midlife transitions — Why people deconstructing from one thing (like religion) often start questioning everything else (like monogamy), and why that's actually a natural part of the process — The grief of leaving certainty behind, both religious certainty and the certainty of traditional relationship structures — Practical therapeutic approaches — Why reconstruction work is just as important as deconstruction, and how to build a new identity and value system — The reality that old messaging and shame will resurface periodically—and why accepting that actually helps you move forward — How privilege (race, gender, sexual orientation) dramatically impacts the severity of religious trauma Resources mentioned in this episode: — Find Natasha at natashahelfer.com — Natasha’s group practice, Symmetry Counseling — Natasha's seven-week educational group for people exploring ethical non-monogamy JOIN The Year Of Opening® community for a full year of learning & support Learn the 5 secrets to open your relationship the smart way Are you ready to open your relationship happily? Find out at www.JoliQuiz.com Get the answers you want to create the open relationship of your dreams! Sign up for a Playing With Fire Community Call here Music: Dance of Felt by ⁠Blue Dot Sessions
255 When should we start making agreements in NEW relationships?
2026/09/05
Here’s a question we get a lot – at what point in a new relationship should you start making agreements? The answer might surprise you: you already are. From the moment you decide where to meet for a first date, you're making agreements. But most of us are worried about being ‘too much’ or making a fuss, so we walk around with unspoken expectations, trying to be ‘cool’ and ‘chill,’ hoping everything will just magically work out. Agreements might seem like a vibe-killer, but in reality, the fear of seeming too rigid or demanding can set you up for heartbreak, confusion, and a whole lot of unnecessary pain. The truth is, agreements aren't about constraining your relationships or killing spontaneity. They're about making your expectations visible so you can actually relate to each other instead of just hoping you're on the same page. This is especially relevant when we shift from monogamy to non-monogamy, because our entire framework for safety, trust, and connection changes, and clear agreements become essential. In this episode, we talk about: — Why you're already making agreements whether you realize it or not (and why pretending you're not is causing problems) — The difference between implicit expectations and explicit agreements, and why making them visible changes everything — The problems that come along with the fear of "not being cool" or "asking for too much" — Why every agreement you make is actually with yourself, not your partner (this is a game-changer) — The power of starting small — How to handle asymmetries in relationships without pretending everything is "fair" or "equal" — Why agreements need revisit dates built in, and how to avoid only renegotiating when someone's already hurt — The liberation that comes from knowing where you stand, even when the agreement isn't what you'd prefer — How to make "minimum viable agreements" and first-draft agreements that you can adjust as you learn what you actually want — Why defining your terms matters more than you think — The difference between spontaneity and intentionality, and why you can have both — How clear agreements actually reduce anxiety and transform your nervous system — Why people avoid making agreements early (hint: they don't want to discover incompatibilities) — The importance of acknowledging what you want and need, even before you're totally sure what that is Resources mentioned in this episode: — Our episode on weasel words and how they undermine agreements — Our episode on relationship agreements 101 JOIN The Year Of Opening® community for a full year of learning & support Learn the 5 secrets to open your relationship the smart way Are you ready to open your relationship happily? Find out at www.JoliQuiz.com Get the answers you want to create the open relationship of your dreams! Sign up for a Playing With Fire Community Call here Music: Dance of Felt by ⁠Blue Dot Sessions
254 How to Figure Out What You Want and Need: An Insider’s Experience of YOO
2026/08/29
Figuring out what your wants and needs might sound simple, but it’s often… really not. To help you navigate this question, we’re bringing you a super special episode in a never-before-seen (and possibly never to be seen again!) format. This episode is excerpted from a community call inside The Year Of Opening®, our private community for people who are on the path of individuation and de-centering monogamy. Wants and needs was a highly requested topic, and the resulting call was truly special. Everyone you’ll hear in this call consented to having the audio shared as a PWF episode, and we are thrilled to invite you into this inside peek! In this episode, we talk about: — Why many of us struggle to name our wants, and how our histories shape our relationship with desire — The difference between needs and wants, and why that distinction matters in non-monogamy — How the mono-mind limits our imagination of what's possible — The protective mechanisms we use to avoid wanting — Why some people enjoy longing and yearning while others find it unbearable — The concept of limerence and how fantasy can both serve and limit us — Using envy as a tool for desire excavation (and when envy becomes destructive) — How to create containers for exploratory conversations about desires — Why trusting your partner's "no" is essential for feeling safe to express your "yes" — The difference between wants you've been sold and wants that authentically arise from within — Practical strategies for desire excavation — How to write solo MVAs (Minimum Viable Agreements) with yourself about your boundaries and capacities JOIN The Year Of Opening® community for a full year of learning & support Learn the 5 secrets to open your relationship the smart way Are you ready to open your relationship happily? Find out at www.JoliQuiz.com Get the answers you want to create the open relationship of your dreams! Sign up for a Playing With Fire Community Call here Music: Dance of Felt by ⁠Blue Dot Sessions
253 The Shadow of Compersion
2026/08/15
Compersion – feeling joy for another person’s joy – is a beautiful thing, especially when it comes to non-monogamy. But, like anything that’s bright and shiny, there’s a shadow side to compersion, and we’ve seen it become a stumbling block in non-monogamous relationships time and time again. When we elevate compersion as a virtue in polyamory, we accidentally create some real problems. Surprisingly, the shadow of compersion isn't about jealousy at all—it's about the pressure, the performance, and the unintended consequences of treating compersion like a moral requirement. If compersion is virtuous, does that mean the absence of compersion is a moral failing? Most of us would say no, but conversations within our communities often tell a different story; people who experience compersion are elevated, celebrated, and held up as examples of "doing non-monogamy right," while those who don't feel compersion end up feeling like they're failing at non-monogamy. In this episode, we talk about: — Why compersion and jealousy are not mutually exclusive (you can feel both at the same time!) — The dangerous elevation of compersion as a virtue and what that does to people who don't experience it easily — How the pressure to feel compersion can lead to performative emotions and enmeshment — The difference between big, electric compersion and the subtle, quiet bubbles of compersion that are easy to miss — Why your partner doesn't owe you compersion, and why demanding it creates unhealthy dynamics — The importance of neutrality and consent as valid emotional states (not everything has to feel good to be okay) — How focusing too much on compersion can cause us to neglect other important emotions like grief, envy, and jealousy — The archetypal nature of emotions and why we need to tend to all of them, not just the "positive" ones — Why jealousy isn't something we can or should transmute into compersion — Practical ways to interrupt harmful cultural conversations that demonize jealousy or pressure people to feel compersion — How to cultivate the attitude of compersion without requiring yourself to feel the emotion Resources mentioned in this episode: — Episode 157 What is Compersion? with Dr. Marie Thouin JOIN The Year Of Opening® community for a full year of learning & support Learn the 5 secrets to open your relationship the smart way Are you ready to open your relationship happily? Find out at www.JoliQuiz.com Get the answers you want to create the open relationship of your dreams! Sign up for Playing With Fire Community Call here Music: Dance of Felt by ⁠Blue Dot Sessions
252 Triad Life in a World of Couples with Margo, Jody & Chris
2026/08/01
Relationships are messy, and when you re-imagine life with three instead of two, well, let's just say the complexity multiplies in ways you might not expect, even if you've been practicing non-monogamy for decades. So what does it actually take to build a throuple that both honors each person's individuality and creates a beautiful togetherness? And how do you navigate that when each person brings their own neurodivergence, relationship history, and vision of what love should look like? This week, we're sitting down with Margo, Chris, and Jodi—affectionately known as "the Throupledom"—to talk about their journey of building a relationship that defies easy categorization. These three incredible humans are Year Of Opening® alums, and what unfolded inside their cohort was nothing short of transformative. They've experimented with living arrangements, deconstructed couples privilege from multiple angles, navigated different timelines of NRE wearing off, and created space for one partner to explore mono-amory while staying in a throuple. If you've ever wondered whether it's possible to be in a committed multi-partner relationship while honoring radically different relationship orientations, or if you're curious about what it really takes to dismantle default relationship structures, this conversation is for you. In this episode, we talk about: — How Chris and Margo's 20+ years of "messy" non-monogamy didn't fully prepare them for the game-changing nature of this triad — Why Jodi falling in love for the first time brought up all the "mono normie Disney princess brouhaha" neither of them expected — The pivotal moment when Jodi admitted, "I was trying to break you two up," and how that radical honesty became a turning point — How neurodivergence (ADHD, autism, PTSD) shapes each person's relationship needs and why recognizing these patterns was essential to their survival as a throuple — The difference between bifurcating yourself across relationships versus showing up as your whole self—and why that shift was so challenging for Chris — What happened when the NRE wore off at different times for different dyads (spoiler: it got really hard) — How they've experimented with "multi-nesting" and why they've tried everything from all together in a one bedroom apartment to living separately five minutes apart — Why taking breaks from each other wasn't a sign of failure but actually a crucial tool for growth — The power of parts work (Internal Family Systems) in helping each person recognize patterns without shame — How they're creating space for Jodi to explore monoamory within a thruple, and why that's not actually a contradiction — The difference between equality and equanimity in relationships, and why that distinction was a game-changer — Why they describe themselves as "scientists" in their relationship—constantly experimenting, adjusting, and trying again without attachment to any single outcome — How psychedelic journeys helped Margo recognize the soul-level connection with Chris that gave her confidence to keep choosing this relationship — What it means to find security not through conditionality (marriage, cohabitation, exclusivity) but through the ineffable thread that connects them — Why "home" became such a complicated word for them, and how they're navigating the search for a shared physical space JOIN The Year Of Opening® community for a full year of learning & support Learn the 5 secrets to open your relationship the smart way Are you ready to open your relationship happily? Find out at www.JoliQuiz.com Get the answers you want to create the open relationship of your dreams! Sign up for a Playing With Fire Community Call here Music: Dance of Felt by ⁠Blue Dot Sessions
251 Trailblazing vs Following: The Hidden Dynamic That May Be Creating Resentment
2026/07/18
When a couple opens their relationship, there’s almost always one partner who tends to take more initiative – to seek out information, read all the books, listen to podcasts, find a poly-aware therapist, initiate important conversations (the list goes on!). This is not necessarily a problem, but it is a dynamic we see all the time, and when it goes unrecognized, unnamed, and unacknowledged, resentment, guilt, and envy can start to build up. We call this the ‘trailblazer and follower,’ and if it feels like you or your partner is doing all the heavy lifting in the opening process, understanding this dynamic may be the key to helping you understand the feelings and patterns that are coming up in your relationship. In this episode, we talk about: — The trailblazer and follower dynamic and why it's so common in relationships opening up — How one partner often ends up carrying the emotional weight of "this was my idea" — Why the follower partner might experience guilt while the trailblazer experiences resentment (even when neither person voices these feelings) — What happens during "the flip" — when the reluctant partner suddenly starts thriving, and the initiating partner feels left behind — The dangerous trap of seeking "parity of outcome" and why symmetry in relationships is neither realistic nor necessary — How unexpressed resentment and guilt can sabotage relationships right when they're about to reach a sweet spot — Why taking full responsibility for your own consent and participation (even when something wasn't your idea) is essential for individuation — The importance of expressing gratitude when you're benefiting from someone else's trailblazing work — How the Imago Dialogue can help partners understand each other's perspectives and do repair work around these dynamics — Why differentiation means accepting that you and your partner will have different experiences, different paths, and different levels of success in non-monogamy — How to recognize when you've fallen into fixed roles and how to shift out of them — What fairness in relationships actually requires Resources mentioned in this episode: — Our episode on Imago Dialogue — Our episode on envying your partner — Our episode on asymmetry and resentment — Our episode on asymmetric relationship agreements JOIN The Year Of Opening® community for a full year of learning & support Learn the 5 secrets to open your relationship the smart way Are you ready to open your relationship happily? Find out at www.JoliQuiz.com Get the answers you want to create the open relationship of your dreams! Sign up for a Playing With Fire Community Call here Music: Dance of Felt by ⁠Blue Dot Sessions
250 Relationship Re‑Imagination: The Framework
2026/07/04
To celebrate hitting 250 episodes of Playing With Fire, we’re diving deep into something we've been asked about constantly since our first episode on it over a year ago: Relationship Re-Imagination. We introduced this concept back in episode 194, and the response was immediate and intense; people wanted steps, phases, a roadmap—something they could follow to Re-Imagine their relationships. But this is not a linear process you can follow off a checklist. This is soul-making work. It's the kind of deep, transformative process that asks you to see yourself, your partner(s), and your relationship with fresh eyes—and then co-create something new from that place of awareness. It's messy, non-linear, and profoundly worthwhile, and we're finally ready to share what we've learned from years of doing this work, both in our own relationship and with hundreds of clients and students. This episode is different from our usual format. Ken interviews Joli about her framework for Relationship Re-Imagination, and we get into the complexity of what this work actually requires. In this episode, we talk about: — What Relationship Re-Imagination actually is (and what it isn't) — Why this isn't the same as couples counseling, de-escalation, or conscious uncoupling — The essential conditions required before you even begin this work — Why you absolutely cannot do this work in three months (or even six), and what a realistic timeline might look like — The four ongoing conditions of a Re-Imagination — The threads you'll weave together during the process, including nervous system, grief, shadow, repair, and becoming work — How to know when you've crossed a threshold and why ritual matters so much — The three potential outcomes of discernment work, and why conscious uncoupling isn't a failure — How to celebrate the hell out of your transformation Resources mentioned in this episode: — Episode 194 of Playing With Fire: Our first conversation about relationship re-imagination — ⁠The Wild Edge of Sorrow⁠ by Francis Weller — Two free weeks of Brain-Based Wellness — Our Neuro-Somatic Intelligence Essentials playlist — Individuation Alchemy, our nine-month container for depth psychological practice — Our Sexual Shadow Masterclass JOIN The Year Of Opening® community for a full year of learning & support Learn the 5 secrets to open your relationship the smart way Are you ready to open your relationship happily? Find out at www.JoliQuiz.com Get the answers you want to create the open relationship of your dreams! Sign up for an Ask Me Anything here Music: Dance of Felt by ⁠Blue Dot Sessions
[Replay] 194 Re-Imagining Relationships
2026/06/27
When something isn't working, even if you’ve been practicing non-monogamy for a long time, it’s really easy to default into the monogamous paradigm, which offers only a few set options. But what if there was another way? Reimagining a relationship means creating something new. It's different from de-escalation (which implies undoing a path you've taken) or uncoupling (which implies ending). Instead, reimagining opens space to explore what your relationship could become if you moved beyond your current ideas of what it is or was supposed to be. This process requires courage, patience, and a willingness to step into the unknown together. It's challenging work, but it can lead to beautiful new forms of connection that honor both your history and your ability to grow and change. In this episode, we talk about: — Why reimagining is different from de-escalation or uncoupling, and how it implies continuity rather than ending — The importance of acknowledging that our imagination is our relationship in many ways — How mononormativity limits our options when relationships need to change (stay together, break up, or be miserable) — The necessity of creating a "liminal container" – a dedicated time and space for the reimagining process — Why grief work is essential before you can truly reimagine something new — The challenge of letting go of what was while maintaining connection — How repair work fits into reimagination (hint: you can't skip it!) — The importance of nervous system regulation during times of uncertainty — Why creating new, explicit agreements is crucial for your reimagined relationship — The value of celebrating when you successfully reimagine a relationship into something new — How the language of "reimagining" itself can be empowering and create possibilities Resources mentioned in this episode: — The Wild Edge of Sorrow by Francis Weller — Episode 152: How to Take Intentional Relationship Breaks — Episode 172: Grieving Change JOIN The Year Of Opening® community for a full year of learning & support Learn the 5 secrets to open your relationship the smart way Are you ready to open your relationship happily? Find out at www.JoliQuiz.com Get the answers you want to create the open relationship of your dreams! Sign up for an Ask Me Anything here Music: Dance of Felt by ⁠Blue Dot Sessions

Podcast reviews

Read Playing With Fire podcast reviews


4.9 out of 5
84 reviews
★☆☆☆☆
K9 fan 2025/10/29
Great if there were non-mono people out there
Another overhyped podcast about topics that apply to people who don’t actually exist or are impossible to find.
★★★★★
Miss Lissa1 2024/11/08
My favorite podcast!
Honestly this podcast is fabulous for ENM but also ANY relationship. I love the dialogue, education and the deep dives. I find myself constantly diggi...
★★★★★
Katharina0312 2024/10/28
Awesome!
Great! But Ken’s name is missing from the title image of this podcast. Having you two there, Juli and Ken, makes a big difference so I’d love to see h...
★★★★★
BerylSton3 2024/09/09
Constantly blown away - this podcast is for all people who want to live meaningful lives
This podcast has more vulnerable and profound insight in a single episode than (I imagine) exist in the entirely of some people’s lives. I am constant...
★★★★★
Zerf1 2024/05/04
Needing to Grow While Opening Up? Listen to this podcast.
If you want to be open, but you’re also looking for emotional maturity, stability, and intimacy this will help. This podcast will help you walk throug...
★★★★☆
Justin_Time. 2023/12/19
This isn’t a non-monogamous podcast
This podcast shouldn’t say it’s specifically for non-monogamy. It’s much more than that. I believe this podcast could help anyone who is in any type o...
★★★★★
EmbraceTruthCreations 2023/05/12
A Wealth of Information in this Podcast!
This podcast is rich with juicy and useful information about how to color outside the lines with our relationships. What freedom these concepts can gi...
★★★★★
JessicaVR26 2023/04/25
A great resource
I’ve been in the Nonmonogmay and Polyam space for some time now and finding Dr. Joli, her work and this podcast was a delight! This space is still lim...
★★★★★
Colorkid 2023/02/15
Expanding the idea of what love can be.
New to the concept of polyamory and everything that comes with it. My husband a few weeks ago came to me to discuss us going Polly but also because he...
★★★★★
jrfletch31 2023/02/08
So grateful
I am beyond grateful to have found this podcast. It is a beautiful space they’ve created to discuss topics deeply with gentleness and gorgeous intelli...
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