Advertise on podcast: Rogue Learner

Guest  Blake Boles Official Bio: (From his website.) Blake Boles is the founder and director of Unschool Adventures and the author of Why Are You Still Sending Your Kids to School?, The Art of Self-Directed Learning, Better Than College, and College Without High School. He hosts the Off-Trail Learning podcast and has delivered over 75 presentations for education conferences, alternative schools, and parent groups. Blake and his work have appeared on The New York Times, The Christian Science Monitor, BBC Travel, Psychology Today, Fox Business, TEDx, The Huffington Post, USA Today, NPR affiliate radio, and the blogs of Wired and The Wall Street Journal. https://www.blakeboles.com https://twitter.com/blakeboles Why Are You Still Sending Your Kids to School? | Blake Boles https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BdjMdjO4NNs   Show Notes Jenna begins by stating that as her own children move into their teen years she finds it more challenging to find meaningful learning activities that will hold their interest. This is why she is excited to talk today with her guest Blake Boles. He has spent more than a decade working with teens while hosting an ‘Unschool Adventure Camp.’ He is also the author of the following books:  ‘Why are you still sending your kids to school?’,  ‘The art of self-directed learning’   ‘Better than college: How to build a successful life without a four year degree.’  He has contributed to many other publications as well.   Blake is the host of the Offtrail Learning Podcast and has given over 75 presentations to Alternative schools, educational conferences and parent groups.  He has been featured in:  The New York Times, The Christian Science Monitor, BBC Travel, Psychology Today, Fox Business, The Huffington Post, USA Today, NPR, and the blogs of Wired and The Wall Street Journal.  Jenna says she is excited to share Blake’s perspective on how to best support our teens quest for more autonomy and real world experiences. They will touch on mentorship and networking. Blake even shares a simple email structure that our kids can follow to connect with professionals in the fields that interest them. They also discuss the pushback that homeschoolers are receiving from experts who would like to see substantial regulatory practice here in the US for homeschooling families. At the end of the podcast Jenna says they will daydream a bit about the possibility of bringing adventure and challenges to communities all over the globe for our unschoolers. Perhaps it will inspire you to create one. Jenna hopes so!  Before we begin, Jenna wants listeners to know that she is still doing a book give-away. Just leave your review on Apple Podcasts, then email her and give her the screen-name you left the review under. She will put your name in a hat. (Yes, this is how it’s done!) The winner will win Blake Boles’ book ‘Why are you still sending your kids to school?’ For every five reviews, she will give away one copy of the book. Also, if you would like to join Jenna on the podcast to discuss any of the topics discussed on previous shows, you can be a co-host! Please reach out if you are interested! Lastly, Jenna says that the podcast has been so critical in helping her find community and learn, but she is looking for even more ways to connect with everyone. Sharing our stories and experiences really helps contribute to our personal growth. She is very thankful for those who have already reached out via email, voicemail and Zoom. She is looking for new ways to connect, form friendships, ask questions on a regular basis, read books together and discuss them. As she continues to find new resources she would really like to connect with you.  LINK TO SURVEY: GIVE YOUR FEEDBACK HERE Jenna welcomes Blake to the podcast. She mentions that she just finished reading his book and wishes she had read it earlier in her journey to unschooling. She says there is just so much value in it regardless

Guest  Philip Mott Philip is a former elementary school teacher who now offers parenting advice for busy and frustrated parents. He and his wife home school their three young children. He’s a regular contributor to Fathering Together and First Time Parent Magazine. www.philipmott.com www.fatheringtogether.org https://www.firsttimeparentmagazine.com You can also hear an interview with him on the podcast Front Row Dads. There are two parts:    Part One   https://frontrowdads.com/philip-mott-part-1/     Part Two   https://frontrowdads.com/philip-mott-part-2/ He is interviewed by Living Joyfully With Unschooling on the Exploring Unschooling podcast. View here on YouTube:  SHOW NOTES: In today’s episode Jenna and Philip have an open and honest conversation about how each of their households handles things like screen time, bedtime and other common hurdles in unschooling.  Before we begin Jenna reminds listeners that she is always looking for new topics and questions you would like to hear addressed on the podcast. For instance, would you like to hear more from Jenna herself, more experts, other ideas? Also, remember to please leave a review as this helps grow the community.    Jenna begins the interview by asking Philip to explain his journey into self-directed learning.  Philip says that he began reading a lot about child development, student engagement, and why students are not fully engaged. He realized that he was becoming the teacher he himself would not have wanted when he was a student. His experience in school was not a good one which was one reason he wanted to become a teacher himself. At that time he felt he had fallen into an authoritarian role. After doing some reading he began to try to make his classroom more child centered. But he says that the writings of Magda Gerber,  a parent child advocate who founded the  Resources for Infant Educarers usually referred to as RIE, was a great inspiration for him. He found this resource when his child was thirteen months old and followed her advice on letting the child lead in play and learning. He had always followed a self-directed path in his own learning but hadn’t made the connection that it would be the same for even very young children. He and his wife were surprised and pleased that a child that young could be so self-directed. This was when they became hooked on self-directed learning and knew that they wanted that for their family.      Jenna notes that she is always surprised at how many educators there are who have an epiphany and says that she can relate to the feeling of becoming that teacher that you don’t want to be. She says that it felt uncomfortable and wrong but was brought on by stress and expectations which were out of her control. Philip agrees and says that when he was teaching fifth grade at an online school he was on a team that kept him from implementing some of the things he wanted to try. He did create a program he called ‘Connect’ in which he would engage with students in order to build a relationship beyond just academics. He tracked grades during this time and saw that the extra engagement with his students did improve their interest and success in class. But, it still didn’t make up for the fact that trying to teach everyone the same thing at the same time was really not working. The curriculum keeps teachers bound to a timeline teaching specific skills at specific times.  Jenna asks if there is in his opinion any time that any one skill MUST be learned. Philip says that it is less about when or even what is absolutely needed to be known or learned, but is much more imperative that the child not be made to feel inadequate if they fail to learn something at the time we expect them to learn it. Even if parents don’t criticize or punish their child for not learning a skill, they receive the message of unworthiness from standardized testing, the grading system etc.  Jenna mentions that so

Guest  Victoria Ransom  Victoria Ransom is a serial entrepreneur from New Zealand. She has developed four companies including Wildfire Interactive, a social marketing SaaS company, where Ransom was CEO until it was sold to Google in 2012. She was named Ernst & Young Entrepreneur of the Year Award for New Zealand in 2011. Fortune Magazine honored her as one of the Forty Most Powerful Women Under Forty in 2012. In 2013, she was invited to the White House by President Barack Obama to receive a "Champion of Change" award recognizing her contributions as an immigrant entrepreneur. In 2015, she was awarded the World Class New Zealander award along with former New Zealand Prime Minister, Helen Clark. In 2016, she was NEXT Woman of the Year in the Business and Innovation category. In 2020, Ransom co-founded Prisma, a remote education startup. Victoria has been interviewed by Bloomberg News, The Corner Office, The New York Times and The Wallstreet Journal.  https://www.joinprisma.com/ https://www.facebook.com/joinprisma/videos/the-prisma-story-vision/1128347837551554/ https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCzqdwPI1kFylYq19kQ1F18g  https://twitter.com/victoria_ransom https://www.linkedin.com/in/victoriaransom   Show Notes Jenna’s intro: Jenna begins the show by reminding listeners that they can leave a voicemail for the podcast and she will read it on the show. Good or bad, she wants your input! Your comments, feedback and suggestions are much appreciated. You can find the link here.   Jenna introduces Victoria and explains that while the online school Prisma is not completely self-directed, it can be a good fit for families with kids that need more structure or are eager for more of a community in light of challenges to group meet-ups during the pandemic. Prisma is an alternative flex school with five week cycles during the year. This makes it a good choice for unschoolers to participate in and for world schoolers who do a lot of traveling.  Victoria tells us a bit about her journey. She is the mother of three and her journey in education began when her oldest reached school age. One thing that concerned her with traditional education was the rapidly changing world we live in, which she believed needed a broader skill set than conventional schools could provide. She was also concerned about the fierce competition and stressful environment, especially where she lives in northern California. She researched homeschooling, alternative and micro schools. She wanted a flexible environment where children could be led by their interests. Something that focused on problem solving and critical thinking. This is when she began to imagine creating something that would not only be best for her own children, but for other families as well.  Jenna asks Victoria to tell us who Prisma serves. What do the families enrolled in Prisma look like?     Victoria says that a common thread is that most of the parents at Prisma want their children to love learning. They are looking to Prisma to provide a toolbox that can help them be able to do many types of work by teaching them critical thinking and problem solving. The kids should be challenged and excited.    Jenna asks about the ages and prior circumstances of the children enrolled in Prisma.   Victoria tells us that the program currently serves grades 4 - 8 at the moment with plans to expand. Prisma grew quite a bit during Covid19 because many children were homeschooling. With Prisma, families found much more flexibility versus a traditional school moved to online. Some of the kids in Prisma are gifted and just felt bored or unchallenged at school. Some have difficulties that made conventional school difficult for them. These children thrive when they are able to move at their own pace. Victoria mentions that Prisma does do some assessment tests and academic growth is occurring.      Jenna asks what a typical Prisma day looks like.    Victoria says that students

Jae says he reached the breaking point in 2020. With the pandemic in full swing and talk of schools opening back up that fall, he started to realize that parents were not focused on their child as much as they were needing teachers to return as babysitters so the parents could go back to work. He didn’t want to be a glorified babysitter. Five months later, he quit.

Guest  Sophie Christophy Sophie is the CEO for a charity called Phoenix Education. An organization that is working to change the education system so that schools are more collaborative and offer rights respecting spaces. She is also co-founder of ‘the Cabin’, the first consent-based education setting in the U.K. - a self-directed learning community for children aged 5-11. She runs courses on consent based education and works with people of all ages on changemaking/education activism and paradigm shifting. All this is a move forward  toward a new paradigm in which children are respected, listened to and treated as whole people, where adultism is managed and de-escalated as much as possible, as a route to social justice. Sophie is an unschooling parent to two children who are 7 and 10.   Contact info: Twitter: @schristophy, Facebook: Sophie Christophy, by email: [email protected] Show Notes Jenna welcomes everyone back to the podcast after a break in which she and her family moved back to the US from Europe. She catches us up on her own family’s unschooling adventures and her future plans. These include plans to combine her love of documentary style family photography and unschooling. For more information check out Jenna’s Instagram and click on ‘Join my Audience.’  Introducing Sophie Christophy: Read Her article from the Huffington Post    Sophie was referred to the podcast by Dr. Nickee Stopler in episode 9 of The Rogue Learner Podcast.  Sophie tells us that she became interested in unschooling after the birth of her daughter ten years ago. Always a curious child and life-long learner she credits the many educators in her family for her ability to trust her own instincts and problem solving skills.  She explains how having her daughter was a huge life shift. She found that she was extremely tuned in to her daughter’s anxieties which brought her to a better understanding of just how differently we all see and experience the world around us. Knowing that she needed to be an advocate for her daughter as she felt that the social constructs of our society may not be the best for the mental and physical well being of people in general, especially a child.   One event that shaped her thinking about life and learning was when one of her parents came out as Trans. This opened her mind to better understanding the need for love and acceptance over prejudice and also that just as being a part of any marginalized group can leave one feeling vulnerable, the same can be said for unschoolers. A certain amount of bravery is called for.  Moving to the topic of deschooling. - Sophie says to begin with giving yourself permission to control your own situation. Recognize your fears. Ask yourself what is holding you back. Treat deschooling like a practice (she gives the example of yoga.) Do it daily to make it a practice. Be a conscious creator of your environment. Pay attention to what you surround yourself with. Question your motives. Make a commitment. Create an environment that will lead to success. Outcomes and variables are set.  Sophie and Jenna discuss these thoughts.  Institutions such as schools try to control the uncontrollable.  Be wary of falling into the trap of switching one dogma or philosophy for another rather than listening to your own intuition.  Continue your own self directed learning while you are facilitating your child’s learning. Sophie discusses a new course that she offers in Deschooling the Body. In this class she teaches her students to bring their physical bodies into the decision making process by paying attention to the body’s cues, responses and intuitions. Do you react to a statement physically? She goes on to say that if you feel your body react to a statement in an uncomfortable way, it may not be true for you. Feel it, breathe into it and find a way to loosen that energy, through movement etc.  Jenna asks Sophie to explain more about the Cabin. 

Guest  Vincent Pugliesi   Vincent is the founder of the Total Life Freedom Community. Living a life of freedom is of huge importance to Vincent and his wife Elizabeth. They homeschool their three boys, and believe that having control of your time, your money, and the work you do, leads to the ultimate life freedom. While teaching others to do the same, the movement of Total Life Freedom was born.   https://totallifefreedom.com Instagram @totallifefreedom1 Intro   Hey Everyone, welcome back to the Rogue Learner podcast. I have had a little break from publishing and I’m really grateful for you all having patience while I figure out my new rhythm here in the States. I don’t know if I’ve said it before on the show, but my husband is still in Europe and will be joining us later in the year so the time I once had to allocate to the show is reduced to very little, especially now that things are opening back up and my kids have access to so many places and clubs that were once closed due to Covid-19. I’d like to start by thanking you all for being so supportive and kind as I transition into our new normal. I am confident I can continue publishing great episodes, in fact I’ve spent the last week interviewing more amazing guests, but I do think the frequency of my publishing will slow at least until my husband joins us. For now, I’ll commit to one great interview a month, with the hope that I can do even more than that.    Some listeners have reached out to me to ask how they can support the show and I appreciate you wanting to help out. The show does cost money to produce, but I’d like to keep the information free to anyone who needs it. Still, if you like the show, get value from it, and have the means to support it monetarily, you can now do so by clicking the “Support Rogue Learner” link either in the show notes or from my profile on Instagram. I am eternally grateful for anyone who makes a contribution. The money will go directly back into paying for the domain, hosting, podcast distribution service and Adobe Audition subscription.    Another way to support the way if you provide a service to other homeschooling families is by advertising on the Rogue Learner website or adding a paid listing to the directory. You’ll find the link in the show notes or in my Instagram profiles. Thank you!    Also, as a thank you from me t o you I always have a book giveaway going on. If you leave a written review on Apple (which you can do through iTunes btw even if you don’t have an iPhone) and then send me a quick email with your screen name, you could win a copy of a book related to SDE. For every 5 reviews, I’ll be giving away two new books, “Raising Free People; Unschooling as Liberation and Healing Work” by Akilah Richards and “Why Are You Still Sending Your Kids to School?” by Blake Boles. Head on over to Apple Podcasts to leave an honest written review and get a chance to win one of these books!   I’m really excited to introduce today’s guest. Vincent Pugliese is an entrepreneur who began his career in a very self-directed manner. Feeling as though he had no options in his 20’s and no clear direction, he took up his father’s advice to take on a photography class. In his story, you’ll hear how he went from completely apathetic toward learning to deeply passionate about sports photography. What I find most incredible about him is that he is now using that knowledge he acquired regarding how people learn with his own three boys. I’m so thrilled that he took the time to chat with me and I think you’ll feel the same way I did by the end of our conversation: motivated and inspired! And now, here is my interview with Vincent Pugliese from Total Life Freedom.  Show Notes   Jenna begins by welcoming Vincent to the show and thanking him for talking about his homeschooling experiences on the ChooseFI podcast, because it really inspired her to think more critically about

Join me on the Show!   Show Notes   Hello Everyone and welcome to the Rogue Learner podcast. My name is Jenna Reich and I am the host of this show. Today is going to be a quick episode where I may ramble. I’ll try to keep it relevant to SDE, but with no promises! The first thing I want to share is a bit about my daughter’s experience so far going back to the school system and my son’s new opportunities after moving Stateside. And since I’m doing a solo show, I also want to share a bit about my intersection between financial and educational freedom. For us, they are inextricably linked so I feel compelled to share how one leads to the other and vice versa - together they provide us with a powerful gateway to liberation. Essentially any time you rely on an outside entity or person to fulfill your most basic needs, you are putting yourself in a vulnerable position.  So, let’s begin with my daughter. For those of you new to the podcast or listening to the show out of order, I’ll give you a little of our backstory . We started unschooling at the beginning of the pandemic and at that time we lived in England. In the UK, there were strict lockdowns put in place almost immediately after we arrived and we spent close to 6 months in isolation. As you can probably guess, my kids weren’t able to experience unschooling as it should be, nor did they have the opportunity to make friends and build community. Both of which are essential to SDE, as you know from listening to my episodes with Peter Gray on the 6 optimizing conditions for SDE. That was episode 13 and 14 of the podcast. Anyway, we came to the conclusion as a family that the move to England was terribly timed and we needed to move back to a place where we had a support system already in place. We would have likely moved back to Germany, where we had been living for 6 years, but sadly unschooling and homeschooling are illegal there and we were not interested in rejoining the German school system. If you don’t know much about the German school system, let’s just suffice it to say that it’s not changed since its inception. None of us were keen on that and alternative schools were sparse where we lived. We ultimately decided to move back to the States, where we had been living prior to our time in Germany. Our son, who attends a global online school for self-directed learners, was pretty content with his schedule and talking with friends over Zoom calls and through video-gaming. However, it was evident that this type of learning environment, which we expect will continue for months and months, was not only less than ideal for our daughter, but it was making her sick. She was not living a full life and we knew it needed to change immediately. When we talked with her about it, she asked to go back to school and of course we supported her in that decision and agreed that being with people on a daily basis is necessary for her. There aren’t any self-directed learning centers in our area. I know other people must be in a similar situation, so I’m sharing this here in the off chance someone needs to hear this right now. Although I am completely aware of the fact that schools are oppressive and not well geared for original thought or creativity, I think parents need to evaluate decisions based on the overall well-being of their child. For us, and this may differ from you, my child’s mental health is far more important to me than the constant advocacy needed to fight for my children’s liberation while they’re in school. In fact, the more I read about emotional wellbeing and how it plays a significant role in one’s physical health, the more I realize that my #1 priority will always be emotional health. For some, that may mean keeping your child as far from a school as possible, but for others that may mean participating in some “school-like” settings and partnering with your child as they navigate the messed up systems in our society.   Let

JOIN ME ON THE SHOW!!!   Guest    Megan   IG @theunschoolfiles www.theunschoolfiles.com   I’m a mama + unschooler from Austin Tx - kiddos are 10, 12 &15 i parent from the heart, and unschool just the same. the liberation of all people is the reason, for me - once I understood how oppressive school was, there was no stopping what came next. sometimes I podcast about it :)   Show Notes   Hi Everyone and welcome back to the Rogue Learner podcast, I’m Jenna Reich. Every other week, I interview researchers, educators, entrepreneurs and families about their experiences with self directed learning. The off-weeks, I co host my show with a listener and we focus our attention on the previous podcast episode and share our biggest takeaways from it.    This week, I have a very special guest co host joining me on the show. Meghan is an unschooling mother of three and the podcast host of The Unschool Files. She has interviewed a number of amazing guests too and I’ve had the pleasure to get to know her and talk with her over Zoom. Go ahead and stop listening right now to subscribe to her show. I’ll wait right here!   We’ll be talking about our takeaways from last week’s episode with Summer, a grown unschooler who shared how her life without school was fulfilling and how her relationships were strong. If you subscribe to conventional thinking (which I’m guessing you don’t if you’re listening to this show), you’ll find yourself questioning everything! She challenges those ideas and provides us with some incredible ways to reflect and process our thoughts about life. If you haven’t listened to that episode yet, it was number 25. FYI, I always share the links and resources mentioned during the episode in the show notes so no need to write anything down.    Before we get started, I have a couple of announcements to share. Firstly, this podcast is being listened to in 17 countries at the time of recording and I just want to thank each and every one of you for taking the time to tune in. I value your time and I hope I am doing a good job of bringing you content that’s informative, relevant, and concise. Also, we had our first book winner this week! For every 5 reviews I get on Apple podcasts, I give away 1 free book. In order to enter the giveaway, all you  need to do is send me a quick email saying what screen name you left the review under. It was a great pleasure to send off a copy of Changing Our Minds by Naomi Fisher to a listener this week!    Last thing before we begin today’s show, please subscribe to the Rogue Leaner YouTube channel. I’ll be uploading all of the episodes there and am preparing to add a variety of content there that will not be on the podcast. If you’re interested in getting a more in-depth look at our unschooling lifestyle, you’ll want to head over there!    Okay, let’s get on with the show shall we. Enjoy!   Jenna asks Meghan to share a bit about her journey into unschooling and how she got into podcasting. Meghan says she’s a mama of three, 10, 12 and 15. Her 10 year old has never been to school but she pulled her oldest out of school when he was in 3rd grade. She describes their unschooling as an ever-evolving emergent practice. She dabbles in podcasting over at The Unschool Files as and when she has the time.    Jenna says she knows the difficulty in balancing podcasting and unschooling because they both take up a lot of time. Meghan reminisces a bit on how unschooling can take up many days at a time as you’re living life with community - the days sort of blend together. Jenna explains how her and her family haven’t actually experienced that side of unschooling yet due to the constraints of lockdowns and the pandemic. She had initially wanted to take the kids on a trip around Europe, but they found themselves isolated instead. Meghan reassures her that the days will come and they aren’t too far away, at least she hopes.    J

  Join me on the Show! Leave a Voicemail! Guest  Summer   FB @thisbeautifullivingfreedom www.mermaidartglass.com   I am a mostly self taught successful glass artist and entrepreneur who has had absolutely no formal education or instruction of any kind. I am a student of life itself, and I could not have had a better teacher. Not only was I unschooled, I was raised by the most incredible woman, whom I am honored to call my best friend and mother. Her parenting philosophy of love, respect, humility, authenticity, and nonviolence, is what has allowed me to be and grow according to my own natural development, passions, and impulses. As an adult I have found it fascinating to try an analyze why my relationship with my mom, myself, and life in general, is so unusual. I am extremely passionate about parenting and education. I have spent many years providing childcare to a wide range of children and have spent that time observing and studying adult child interaction, how it compares to my own experiences, and what makes it so different. Show Notes   You are here because you're curious about self-directed learning. You want inspiration, practical tips, information, and a community of people to share your experiences with our guests. Advice and tips will help us all to create the most enriching learning environment we can for our kids. If that makes you curious.   You've come to the right place. So let's learn how we can best facilitate our children in their learning pursuits. Welcome to the rogue learner podcast.   Hey, hi everyone. And welcome back to the rogue learner podcast. If you're just tuning in for the first time. Welcome. I have been so busy the last four weeks, and we have a ton of catching up to do. I do plan to fill you all in, but I'll wait until next week since today's interview is already a super long one.   Welcome to all my new listeners. I'm so glad you're here. My name is Jenna. I'm the host of the rogue learner podcast. And I'm a mom of two awesome kids. My husband has joined me on the show periodically too. And his name is Chris. We are one year into our unschooling journey in episode 24, my husband and I review our year of unschooling.   So you can check that out. If you're interested in hearing more about our experience, I started this podcast as a way to connect with other people on the same path and to learn along the way, I've been lucky enough to interview some of the most influential researchers in this space. And I hope to continue on with a quality show that provides you and me with some invaluable information that will help guide our decisions about how we live peacefully with our kids.   I thought the show was going to focus mostly on education, but I'm realizing that so much of what I was searching for. A little to do with academic learning and so much more to do with my connection with my kids and family. I hope this podcast inspires your family to connect and live a more peaceful existence together.   One that puts respect for each other above all else. Today, I have the perfect guest on the show to speak on all of these specific topics. Summer is a grown unschooler who has never been to any formal schooling whatsoever. She's a unique find even in the world of unschool. Because many children at least take some formal classes along their unschooling journey.   At some point, her and her brothers were raised by their mother who saw the value in building relationships with her kids and trusted that her kids would become the best versions of themselves if she just supported them and loved them unconditionally. This was before the days of internet and unschooling forums.   So today you'll hear summer's unique perspective on growing up in an uncoerced home. There are so many moments where I actually paused the interview while editing to write down a quote, because she made so many profound. Summer is located in Hawaii. And the day we recorded, they had a prett

Join me on the Show! Leave a Voicemail! Show Notes On today’s show, Chris and Jenna wanted to talk about their takeaways and experiences after one full year of unschooling. Chris shares how he had expectations in the beginning that homeschool would be a replication of the schooled environment, only more customised, lively and fun. He now admits that it was a pretty silly idea. He realized that everyone learns differently and therefore we require different learning environments. It took a while to observe and understand our own family dynamics and what we each need as individuals. It took a long time for us to find the right rhythm for each of our children and we got frustrated along the way, mostly because we had our own expectations. It takes more than a few weeks of trial and error.    Jenna says her first takeaway was that they should have spent more time deschooling. They jumped into homeschooling quickly and purchased a curriculum. Of course, that meant the learning wasn’t flexible or adaptable in any way and it was still information that “someone else” wanted their kids to learn. She says it sort of took up a lot of their time - it took them a while before they realized that a curriculum was not going to work for them. She wishes they had spent more time just being and observing their kids to see what they were into and what stimulates them. For example, they now know that their daughter needs activities outside the house regularly, whereas their son is happy at home. As an unschooling parent, it’s even difficult sometimes to provide the right environment for all your children when they have such opposing needs. Jenna says that they definitely didn’t give themselves enough time to deschool and really trust the process. She thinks that would have resulted in a much smoother transition. She remembers flip-flopping between thinking it was all working and then being scared and worried that it wasn’t. They had a lot of fear come up. She thinks it would have been best to just get to know the kids, learn more about their interests and relax together before inviting them to try new experiences like online classes, activities, or any other offerings.    Chris says he thinks taking our time and flip-flopping was okay. He adds that it was our learning process. He says one of the things he’s really walked away from this year knowing is that we have the gift of time with unschooling. There is no hurrying through life. Taking our time to get to where we are today was not wasted. When Chris looks back on his own life, he can remember many instances in which he truly did waste his time because he was pursuing topics, careers and education that wasn’t actually relevant to him or that he didn’t want to study. He says that he rushed into university studies because of the timeline society gives us on when things ought to be completed. In homeschooling you can make mistakes because you can change course easily and without any serious repercussions. Chris says that our kids have 7-10 years (or the rest of their school years) to focus on things they’re interested in.    Jenna challenges Chris by saying that seeing those years (as schooling years) is actually a schooled mindset and just goes to show that we still have a lot of deschooling to do. Of course, with unschooling there are no guardrails on how long you spend learning about things that interest you. The learning never really ends or begins. It’s a continuum.    Chris laughs and adds that he basically just argued against his own point - we actually have the gift of time! There are no rules about when we are “done” or “ready.” It’s all individual. He remembers feeling very immature when he moved out and started university. He simply wasn’t ready to make a decision that would impact the rest of his life.    Jenna says she can’t emphasize it enough that families considering homeschooling really take the time to deschool. She sa

Guest CoHost   Emily Gregoire   IG @the.rainbow.room_  YouTube @theunschoolingdiary   Holistic Microschool Owner/Creator, Unschooling/Multicultural family of 6, lifelong self directed learner with a deep respect for babies and children as creative, curious, natural learners. Heavily influenced by Montessori philosophy. Member of 100 Roads a group of educators and edupreneurs.   Show Notes   Emily got started in self directed learning years ago. In fact, she earned her degree in self directed general studies. When she had children, she realized she was going have to find a different way because her husband, who is a chef, had very abnormal working hours. She began reading and researching education styles that were more focused on holistic learning models. In Nevada, a program became available to individual students where they could receive $5,000 as a voucher to use for alternative education. Emily was really fired up and started forming coalitions and began informing people about this option, but the program sadly fell through. But the fire was lit, and Emily had met so many other like-minded families throughout the process that they decided to all work together. Her daughters became involved with what was Wildflowers Learning Studio from there. Sadly the teacher leading the learning center passed away from cancer, so Emily decided to carry on the torch. During Covid, she opened the Rainbow Room where she had 10 students in the mornings and 10 students in the afternoon.    Jenna asks if it was difficult to find students for Emily’s micro school? Emily says it was interesting because the people who showed interest originally weren’t always the ones who actually registered. She found the best way to recruit students was through local mom groups who were looking for a learning model that could extend from their current nurture-based parenting methods. For these families, the concept doesn’t seem so wild because they’ve already done the research and have experience pushing up against the status quo. She doesn’t want to educate or sell parents on the idea, she wants to be the solution. She says she built the solution she was looking for for her own daughters.    Jenna asks Emily to tell us about her children. Emily says she has 4 girls, Juliettta (9), Ophelia (7), Louie (5), and Lucianna (2). She grew up with 5 siblings and jokes that if it’s not chaos, it’s not parenting. She says her path was like collecting nuts through the forest. She read Free to Learn, which then lead to her reading another, and then another book. In the Rainbow Room, Emily tries to create a robust and healthy environment where you can’t help but learn. Jenna adds that being able to cater the environment to the students is what makes microschools really unique.   Jenna asks Emily to share her first takeaway from the episode with Mara Linaberger. Emily says it was great hearing Mara’s experiences and learning about all the different microschools that are out there.  Her favorite part of the episode was when Mara said that her vision for microschools is to create something where we can do all the best practices for students, all of the time. Emily highlights that anyone working with kids are most likely trying to do what’s best for their students all of the time, but because of all the demands and overload on teachers, it’s just like too little butter spread over too much bread. With microschools, you can better define what is working and what isn’t. She advises microschool leaders to under commit and over perform. She started out with a really small morning slot and let the school evolve over time into what it is today. She felt like that was a good way for her to keep true to her original concept for the microschool. Jenna says it’s much easier for a microschool to commit to and stay true to a vision because of the small number of students. That is the impossible dream that schools promise, but they can

Guest  Mara Linaberger Founder & COO, Microschool Builders, LLC Dr. Mara Linaberger believes that each of us has chosen to be here at this moment in time for a specific reason—that we are each on a mission that we choose for ourselves. And that figuring out what we love, what we’re good at, and how we can be of service is the engine we need to fuel a lifetime of joyful learning. Mara also believes that school often slows down or stifles that excitement for students. So she is on a mission to create a global network of 100 microschools in the next 20 years—to harness education toward helping amazing children to develop their highest potentials while making learning fun again! Mara is a life-long educator, author, technologist, artist, ballroom dancer, and musician, having spent 25 years in service as a public school educator, teacher trainer, and administrator. Completing a doctorate in Instructional Technology, she went on to earn a Superintendent’s Letter of Eligibility in Pennsylvania. Launching Mindful Technology Consultants in 2013, she continues to train teachers at the masters level on the use of digital portfolios as alternative assessments and on bringing mindfulness practices into the classroom. Mara is the international two-time best selling author of HELP! My Child Hates School and The Micro-School Builder’s Handbook. Mara currently lives in Harmony, PA, with her husband Michael while she travels far and wide, directly supporting clients in her global Microschool Builders programs. https://www.facebook.com/mara.linaberger  https://www.instagram.com/microschool_builders/ https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCzqdwPI1kFylYq19kQ1F18g  https://twitter.com/mlinaberger  https://www.linkedin.com/in/maralinaberger/ Show Notes Jenna says that she thinks many listeners of the Rogue Learner podcast are interested in knowing more about alternative and progressive education models, but who aren’t able to homeschool, may be interested in looking into microschools. She asks Mara to give an overview of microschools for the audience. Mara says that many people would characterize it differently but she sees it as the reinvention of the one-room schoolhouse. It’s usually a parent or educator who decides they want to work with a small group of students in a community. In most cases, micro schools have multi-age groupings, lots of self direction on the part from the students, more time outdoors, more time for field trips and hands-on projects. You can picture it as a one-room schoolhouse with technology, the ability to communicate with others and collaborate beyond our communities, and the ability to travel. They are really a great alternative for many kids. Jenna says it seems like a good alternative for people who want to build something different for students that is easier than creating a school which can accommodate up to 600 students.  Mara mentions that the word micro school was coined in 2010, but is not a new idea. She says Montessori, Reggio Emilo, Waldorf, and Sudbury are all labeled ‘alternative education’, but she thinks that word is loaded because they can be seen as schools which parents send their kids to when they’re getting into trouble or they just don’t fit in. She says that micro schools do accommodate those kids, of course, but there are plenty of other people who are looking for smaller, more personalized, more community-based, gentler, kinder, slower micro schools.  Mara says she’s seeing an influx of parents who are choosing micro schools with  kids who are highly sensitive, diagnosed with adhd, gifted, kids with learning deficits or challenges. In the smaller learning environment, she says it’s a lot easier to meet the needs of each individual child as opposed to the public schools which sometimes serve hundreds of students.  Jenna points out that the one thing schools can provide is a sense of community, however in public schools the number of students is often so lar