Consciousness. Spontaneous healing. UAPs. Near Death Experiences. Manifestation. Psychic phenomena. Angels. Nothing is off limits if it can be approached with curiosity and rigor.
MBB started as a conversation about mental health — and quickly became something much bigger. Because the deeper you go into what it means to be human, the faster you run into questions science hasn’t fully answered yet.
Hosted by neuroscientist and cultural icon Mayim Bialik and spiritual explorer Jonathan Cohen, MBB is a multi-award-winning podcast where science and spirituality meet. Together they break down the assumptions, the misperceptions, and the boundaries between disciplines — and every breakdown is a breakthrough. This is where the biggest questions get taken seriously — and where you realize you’ve never been alone in asking them.
Can the mind actually heal the body? Can quantum physics explain psychic phenomena? What do Near Death Experiences reveal about the nature of consciousness and the seat of the human soul? What if the only thing separating you from your own intuition - or even God - is the assumption that it’s out of reach? And if governments are publicly acknowledging the existence of UFOs, what does that mean for the future of humanity?
These are the questions Mayim Bialik's Breakdown asks every week.
Subscribe on Substack for ad-free episodes and bonus content, and check us out on YouTube (@MayimBialik) for video versions of our episodes!
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Substack Exclusive: Why Swiping Kills Attraction, How Technology Is Emptying Our Lives & the Way Back to The Meaning of Your Life | Arthur Brooks
2026/11/07
In this special episode, originally recorded live with our Breaker community on Substack, Mayim and Jonathan sit down with Arthur Brooks to talk about happiness, meaning, and his new book, The Meaning of Your Life: Finding Purpose in an Age of Emptiness.
Brooks is one of the leading voices on human happiness, and he explains why the wealthiest, most technologically advanced countries have the highest share of people who say they don’t know their meaning or purpose. He argues it comes down to how much time we spend in our left brain versus our right brain, and how to find the balance.
His top recommendations:
- Step away from your devices
- Pursue relationships and experiences the old-fashioned way
- Grapple with the big questions in life that lead to meaning
His description of dating apps as a “left-brain simulation of right-brain emotions” reframes almost every part of how we connect with each other. He also explores the difference between healthy and unhealthy suffering, and why meaning is found when we get our hands dirty in life.
Visit https://drinkag1.com/BREAKDOWN and for a limited time, get a free Immune Support Bundle, including a bottle of Omega-3 fish oil and a bottle of Vitamin D3K2, with your first subscription order of AG1 Next Gen or AG1 Pro.Find the fall pieces you’ll reach for most at Quince. Go to https://www.quince.com/breakdown for free shipping on your
Arthur Brooks' Book, The Meaning of Your Life: Finding Purpose in an Age of Emptiness: https://www.arthurbrooks.com/the-meaning-of-your-life
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Presenting: How God Works: The Science Behind Spirituality
2026/11/07
Introducing Faith and Fashion from How God Works: The Science Behind Spirituality.
Follow the show: How God Works: The Science Behind Spirituality
Let's face it, religion isn't known for being particularly fashion-forward. Many might even say they’re directly opposed—vice and virtue, decadence versus humility, maximalism versus modesty. But lately, scholars from both the fashion world and Christian theology are arguing that maybe the story isn't quite so simple.
On this episode, we’ll talk to the pastor, theologian, and professor Robert Covolo about the long history of fashion in Christianity and clothing as a form of communication, a way to construct identity, interact in complex societies, and even connect with the divine. Whether or not the ultimate goal is to get closer to God or to one another, fashion and beauty can open our hearts and minds to something beyond ourselves.
Robert Covolo is the Executive Director of the Center for Faith + Work Los Angeles and a Professor at the Honors College at Azusa Pacific University. He is the author of Fashion Theology. Learn more about his work on his website.
DISCLAIMER: Please note, this is an independent podcast episode not affiliated with, endorsed by, or produced in conjunction with the host podcast feed or any of its media entities. The views and opinions expressed in this episode are solely those of the creators and guests. For any concerns, please reach out to [email protected].
They Died, Saw Hell & Came Back. What 1,500 Near-Death Experiences Reveal About Dying | John Burke
2026/11/06
What if near death experiences are giving us clues about what happens after we die, and even revealing something about God, consciousness, and our purpose here on Earth?
John Burke, bestselling author of Imagine Heaven, has spent years researching more than 1,500 NDEs. In this episode of Mayim Bialik's Breakdown, he shares some of the most compelling accounts he has encountered, and explains why he believes the similarities between NDEs and ancient spiritual and religious texts deserve a much closer look.
Could near death experiences actually point to a reality beyond our physical universe? Could consciousness exist in dimensions we don't yet understand? And what might NDEs reveal about heaven, hell, God, the soul, and the purpose of our lives?
John dives into some extraordinary territory, including:
- Shocking commonalities across thousands of NDES, and what they might tell us about the nature of reality
- Nearly half of NDE experiencers report encountering “the love and light of God” - What does this overwhelming experience actually mean?
- Evidence from NDEs that may suggest reality contains extra dimensions beyond the physical world we normally perceive
- Remarkable cases of blind near death experiencers who report being able to see on the other side (and the profound implications this raises about consciousness and perception)
- Could NDEs have happened in biblical times? John examines evidence of NDE-like experiences in ancient religious texts and discusses which biblical figures may have experienced something similar
- What life reviews reveal about our unique purpose & how we can pursue that purpose now
- Mysterious nature of time on the other side
- Why people struggle to describe what they experienced after death
- What does it mean to remain “yourself” after death?
- Soul-to-soul communication: Why do experiencers say communication beyond this life is somehow “more” than telepathy?
- Shallow vs. deep NDEs
- Clinical evidence that convinced John NDEs are real
- Negative and "hellish" NDEs - why some experiencers return with PTSD, and how even these terrifying encounters can ultimately transform a person's life for the better
- What if hell isn't simply a place of punishment?
- How so many people may be getting God wrong
- Individuality vs. oneness: How can every person have a unique path and purpose while still being part of a reality in which everything is connected?
- Evidence connecting NDEs with ancient spiritual texts
- Clues NDEs may leave behind about our purpose on Earth: Why might our purpose be both deeply personal and multifaceted rather than just one single calling?
John also explores one of the biggest mysteries of all: If these experiences are real, what do they tell us about who we are—and why we're here?
Whether you believe NDEs are evidence of an afterlife, extraordinary experiences produced by the brain, or something we don't yet understand, the stories and evidence raise questions that are difficult to ignore.
Is consciousness more than the brain? Is there really an “other side”? What happens when we die? And could near death experiences be giving humanity clues about the answers?
Head to https://nuropod.com/mayim for the highest discount this year: 20% off until the end of November. Nuropod is a wearable device built on 10+ years of vagus nerve research, backed by 60+ clinical studies and a 30 day return guarantee. #NuropodPartner#Nuropod#VagusNerve Get 15% off OneSkin with the code BREAK at https://www.oneskin.co/BREAK #oneskinpod Visit https://drinkag1.com/BREAKDOWN and for a limited time, get a free Immune Support Bundle, including a bottle of Omega-3 fish oil and a bottle of Vitamin D3K2, with your first subscription order of AG1 Next Gen or AG1 Pro.Find the fall pieces you’ll reach for most at Quince. Go to https://www.quince.com/breakdown for free shipping on your order and 365-day returns.Machine Washable Rugs, Made Better. For a limited time only, our listeners get 10% off + free shipping at http://tumbleliving.com/BREAK #Tumble #ad
John Burke's new book, Imagine Your Purpose from Heaven: Near-Death Experiences, God’s Plan, and the Reason You Are Here: https://imagineheaven.net/
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BialikBreakdown.comYouTube.com/mayimbialikSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.
Part Two: Atheist Dies on the Operating Table, Meets Her Spirit Guide, and Sent Back With 12 Messages to Share on Love, Connections & Why We Are Never Alone | Nancy Rynes
2026/11/04
What if time isn’t real, multiple timelines exist simultaneously, and your consciousness can leave your body?
In this episode of Mayim Bialik's Breakdown, Nancy Rynes (scientist, geologist, archaeologist, artist, inspirational speaker, and author of Awakenings from the Light: 12 Life Lessons from a Near Death Experience) reveals the unbelievable story of her near death experience (NDE) and the profound revelations that changed everything she believed about life, death, consciousness, and what happens after we die.
After being hit by a car while riding her bike, Nancy describes watching the accident from outside her body, experiencing a split in consciousness between her ordinary “ego” awareness and what she calls her higher self, and encountering a mysterious woman who helped her at the scene, yet has never been identified to this day.
During surgery, Nancy says she awakened somewhere completely unlike the physical world: a beautiful, ethereal hillside filled with tendrils of pulsating energy. But it wasn't a physical place at all. Nancy came to understand it as a kind of “construct.” As an atheist, her first question upon realizing she may have died was why wasn’t she in hell?
Then came her encounter with a spirit guide, who told Nancy she had to return to “earth school”, something she desperately did not want to do.
Nancy remembers an agreement she believes she made before birth: a “soul contract” that included being born into her particular family and undergoing specific personal transformations in order to fulfill her soul’s purpose. She also shares the 12 life lessons she says emerged from her NDE, including her profound belief that “God is love” and completely all-encompassing and all-inclusive, and that we are never truly alone.
She explains why she believes energy levels may be the only thing separating our reality from the other realm, and recounts a powerful life review in which she experienced how her actions had positively or negatively affected other people. Her experience gave her a radically different perspective on the enormous impact of seemingly insignificant choices, including small, random acts of kindness that may affect someone far more deeply than we realize.
Nancy also opens up about what happened after she returned to her body: the physical and emotional recovery, the struggle to readjust to ordinary reality, and the depression she experienced because she desperately wanted to return to the spirit realm she had experienced. At the same time, she discovered new creative abilities and gifts that she hadn't experienced before.
Nancy describes remembering two of her friends dying before her NDE—only to discover that both friends were still alive when she returned. This bizarre experience became part of why she believes different timelines can exist at the same time and why she now views time as an illusion.
Her experiences may have challenged everything she once believed, but Nancy wasn't always spiritually open. As a small child, she was deeply spiritual and believes she may have experienced an earlier NDE at age 4, which may have primed her for remote viewing later in life. Raised Catholic, she nevertheless questioned and rejected many of the teachings she was exposed to. As an adult, her science-minded brain—shaped by her work as a geologist and archaeologist—made her especially skeptical. She also carried a powerful fear of death.
Yet before her life-changing accident, Nancy says she began experiencing strange dreams and an unmistakable feeling that something was about to happen.
Was her childhood experience a preview of what was to come? Did her consciousness actually separate from her body? Who was the mysterious woman at the accident scene? What exactly is “earth school”? Could a soul contract really exist? And if Nancy’s memories of her friends suggest that multiple timelines can coexist, what does that mean for our understanding of time, consciousness, and reality?
This is a fascinating deep dive into NDEs, consciousness, the afterlife, higher self, spirit guides, soul contracts, life reviews, remote viewing, spirituality, timelines, and the mystery of what happens when we die!
Nancy Rynes Book, Awakenings from the Light: https://a.co/d/041jQwfNNancy Rynes Guidebook, Walking in the Light: https://a.co/d/09mKNyXuNancy Rynes Art: https://nancyrynesart.com/
Follow us on Substack for Exclusive Bonus Content: https://bialikbreakdown.substack.com/
BialikBreakdown.comYouTube.com/mayimbialikSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.
Atheist Dies on the Operating Table, Meets Her Spirit Guide, and Sent Back With 12 Messages to Share on Love, Connections & Why We Are Never Alone | Nancy Rynes
2026/11/03
What if time isn’t real, multiple timelines exist simultaneously, and your consciousness can leave your body?
In this episode of Mayim Bialik's Breakdown, Nancy Rynes (scientist, geologist, archaeologist, artist, inspirational speaker, and author of Awakenings from the Light: 12 Life Lessons from a Near Death Experience) reveals the unbelievable story of her near death experience (NDE) and the profound revelations that changed everything she believed about life, death, consciousness, and what happens after we die.
After being hit by a car while riding her bike, Nancy describes watching the accident from outside her body, experiencing a split in consciousness between her ordinary “ego” awareness and what she calls her higher self, and encountering a mysterious woman who helped her at the scene, yet has never been identified to this day.
During surgery, Nancy says she awakened somewhere completely unlike the physical world: a beautiful, ethereal hillside filled with tendrils of pulsating energy. But it wasn't a physical place at all. Nancy came to understand it as a kind of “construct.” As an atheist, her first question upon realizing she may have died was why wasn’t she in hell?
Then came her encounter with a spirit guide, who told Nancy she had to return to “earth school”, something she desperately did not want to do.
Nancy remembers an agreement she believes she made before birth: a “soul contract” that included being born into her particular family and undergoing specific personal transformations in order to fulfill her soul’s purpose. She also shares the 12 life lessons she says emerged from her NDE, including her profound belief that “God is love” and completely all-encompassing and all-inclusive, and that we are never truly alone.
She explains why she believes energy levels may be the only thing separating our reality from the other realm, and recounts a powerful life review in which she experienced how her actions had positively or negatively affected other people. Her experience gave her a radically different perspective on the enormous impact of seemingly insignificant choices, including small, random acts of kindness that may affect someone far more deeply than we realize.
Nancy also opens up about what happened after she returned to her body: the physical and emotional recovery, the struggle to readjust to ordinary reality, and the depression she experienced because she desperately wanted to return to the spirit realm she had experienced. At the same time, she discovered new creative abilities and gifts that she hadn't experienced before.
Nancy describes remembering two of her friends dying before her NDE—only to discover that both friends were still alive when she returned. This bizarre experience became part of why she believes different timelines can exist at the same time and why she now views time as an illusion.
Her experiences may have challenged everything she once believed, but Nancy wasn't always spiritually open. As a small child, she was deeply spiritual and believes she may have experienced an earlier NDE at age 4, which may have primed her for remote viewing later in life. Raised Catholic, she nevertheless questioned and rejected many of the teachings she was exposed to. As an adult, her science-minded brain—shaped by her work as a geologist and archaeologist—made her especially skeptical. She also carried a powerful fear of death.
Yet before her life-changing accident, Nancy says she began experiencing strange dreams and an unmistakable feeling that something was about to happen.
Was her childhood experience a preview of what was to come? Did her consciousness actually separate from her body? Who was the mysterious woman at the accident scene? What exactly is “earth school”? Could a soul contract really exist? And if Nancy’s memories of her friends suggest that multiple timelines can coexist, what does that mean for our understanding of time, consciousness, and reality?
This is a fascinating deep dive into NDEs, consciousness, the afterlife, higher self, spirit guides, soul contracts, life reviews, remote viewing, spirituality, timelines, and the mystery of what happens when we die!
Save 20% Off Honeylove by going to https://honeylove.com/BREAKER! #honeylovepodThanks to Monarch for partnering with us! Start your free trial and get 50% off your first year of total money clarity using my link https://monarchmoney.yt.link/ZtigfhP or code mayim50 for 50% Off Monarch Core tier.Get $50 off your first purchase of $100 or more at https://ARTICLE.COM/MAYIMFor a limited time, get $250 off Cove Pure water filtration at http://www.covepure.com/breakdownVisit https://drinkag1.com/BREAKDOWN and for a limited time, get a free Immune Support Bundle, including a bottle of Omega-3 fish oil and a bottle of Vitamin D3K2, with your first subscription order of AG1 Next Gen or AG1 Pro.Find the fall pieces you’ll reach for most at Quince. Go to https://www.quince.com/breakdown for free shipping on your order and 365-day returns.
Nancy Rynes Book, Awakenings from the Light: https://a.co/d/041jQwfNNancy Rynes Guidebook, Walking in the Light: https://a.co/d/09mKNyXuNancy Rynes Art: https://nancyrynesart.com/
Follow us on Substack for Exclusive Bonus Content: https://bialikbreakdown.substack.com/
BialikBreakdown.comYouTube.com/mayimbialikSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.
Re-Air: #1 Body Language Expert Explains Subtle Cues Impact Everything From Dating To Work Promotions | Vanessa Van Edwards
2026/10/30
What if the way you say “hello” is holding you back in life?
This week, we’re revisiting our episode with Vanessa Van Edwards: body language expert, behavioral researcher, and founder of Science of People. She shares powerful insights from her bestselling book Cues: Master the Secret Language of Charismatic Communication. In this must-watch episode, the charisma training guru and TED Talk speaker reveals how unconscious social cues—like tone of voice, microexpressions, posture, and awkward hand gestures—can quietly sabotage your confidence, relationships, and career. Learn the behavioral science behind first impressions, how to decode body language, spot deception, and overcome your “Resting Bothered Face.” Discover nonverbal communication tips to build instant trust, increase likability, and reframe social anxiety into a personal advantage. Whether you’re an introvert craving better people skills or a leader looking to level up your professional communication, Vanessa Van Edwards has the charisma cues you need to change how the world sees you and how you see yourself.
Follow us on Substack for Exclusive Bonus Content: https://bialikbreakdown.substack.com/
BialikBreakdown.comYouTube.com/mayimbialikSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.
Part Two: The Alien Invasion Already Happened. JFK, The CIA & Who’s Really Controlling History | Peter Levenda
2026/10/28
What if the UFO phenomenon isn’t simply being investigated by governments, but is being used to investigate us? And what if the forces behind it are connected to consciousness, intelligence agencies, occultism, and nonhuman intelligence?
In this episode of Mayim Bialik’s Breakdown, Peter Levenda, author of the Sinister Forces trilogy and co-author with Blink-182’s Tom DeLonge of the nonfiction Sekret Machines trilogy (Gods, Man, and War), goes deep down the rabbit hole of UFOs, UAP, nonhuman intelligence (NHI), government secrecy, consciousness, occultism, intelligence operations, and the mysterious “Men in Black.”
We begin with the JFK assassination and explore its possible connections to UFOs, NHI, consciousness, and sinister forces operating behind the scenes. Levenda examines why he believes Kennedy’s assassination may have affected the American psyche more deeply than we realize, as well as the intriguing parallels between the Lincoln and Kennedy assassinations. Could the U.S. government have been influenced by negative nonhuman intelligence? Was there ever a secret deal between the government and aliens? And is the growing push for UFO/UAP/NHI disclosure revealing the truth, or concealing something more sinister?
Levenda discusses why he finds it frustrating that NHI is often reduced to traditional “angels and demons” narratives, and why understanding the phenomenon may require perspectives from religious scholars, linguists, anthropologists, psychiatrists, and other experts, not just the technological and military worlds. We examine the infamous Roswell UAP crash and its possible connection to Nazi technology, the relationship between occultism, religion, mythology, and power, and the disturbing ties between occult ideas and Nazi Germany.
We also explore Levenda’s encounters with the “Men in Black,” including why he believes certain entities may not want him to have the information he possesses. He shares his own riveting UAP sighting and considers the strange possibility that his years of studying UFOs and occultism could somehow have played a role in summoning or conjuring the phenomenon.
Could intelligence agencies be studying (and potentially manipulating) UFO experiencers? Levenda explores theories involving the CIA, reverse-engineering the phenomenon, and the unsettling history of government experimentation on its own citizens, including MKUltra, Project Bluebird, and the Montreal “deep patterning” experiments involving memory manipulation and alleged false-memory implantation. We ask what consciousness manipulation might look like today, and how psychological operations, propaganda, and behavioral experimentation could influence what we believe without us recognizing it.
We also unpack the controversial theories surrounding Hitler’s alleged survival after World War II, questioning the official bunker-suicide narrative and examining conflicting eyewitness testimony. We also confront a deeper question: What happens psychologically when you go too far down the rabbit hole of UFOs, secret societies, occultism, and humanity’s hidden history?
From JFK and Roswell to NHI, intelligence agencies, government experimentation, disclosure, consciousness manipulation, the Men in Black, Nazi technology, occultism, and Hitler survival theories, this conversation explores whether the UFO phenomenon is technological, psychological, consciousness-related...or something far stranger.
And if powerful institutions have influenced what people believe for generations, how much of our reality is actually our own?
Learn more about Peter Levenda and his books: http://peterlevenda.com/
Follow us on Substack for Exclusive Bonus Content: https://bialikbreakdown.substack.com/
BialikBreakdown.comYouTube.com/mayimbialik
See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.
The Alien Invasion Already Happened. JFK, The CIA & Who’s Really Controlling History | Peter Levenda
2026/10/27
What if the UFO phenomenon isn’t simply being investigated by governments, but is being used to investigate us? And what if the forces behind it are connected to consciousness, intelligence agencies, occultism, and nonhuman intelligence?
In this episode of Mayim Bialik’s Breakdown, Peter Levenda, author of the Sinister Forces trilogy and co-author with Blink-182’s Tom DeLonge of the nonfiction Sekret Machines trilogy (Gods, Man, and War), goes deep down the rabbit hole of UFOs, UAP, nonhuman intelligence (NHI), government secrecy, consciousness, occultism, intelligence operations, and the mysterious “Men in Black.”
We begin with the JFK assassination and explore its possible connections to UFOs, NHI, consciousness, and sinister forces operating behind the scenes. Levenda examines why he believes Kennedy’s assassination may have affected the American psyche more deeply than we realize, as well as the intriguing parallels between the Lincoln and Kennedy assassinations. Could the U.S. government have been influenced by negative nonhuman intelligence? Was there ever a secret deal between the government and aliens? And is the growing push for UFO/UAP/NHI disclosure revealing the truth, or concealing something more sinister?
Levenda discusses why he finds it frustrating that NHI is often reduced to traditional “angels and demons” narratives, and why understanding the phenomenon may require perspectives from religious scholars, linguists, anthropologists, psychiatrists, and other experts, not just the technological and military worlds. We examine the infamous Roswell UAP crash and its possible connection to Nazi technology, the relationship between occultism, religion, mythology, and power, and the disturbing ties between occult ideas and Nazi Germany.
We also explore Levenda’s encounters with the “Men in Black,” including why he believes certain entities may not want him to have the information he possesses. He shares his own riveting UAP sighting and considers the strange possibility that his years of studying UFOs and occultism could somehow have played a role in summoning or conjuring the phenomenon.
Could intelligence agencies be studying (and potentially manipulating) UFO experiencers? Levenda explores theories involving the CIA, reverse-engineering the phenomenon, and the unsettling history of government experimentation on its own citizens, including MKUltra, Project Bluebird, and the Montreal “deep patterning” experiments involving memory manipulation and alleged false-memory implantation. We ask what consciousness manipulation might look like today, and how psychological operations, propaganda, and behavioral experimentation could influence what we believe without us recognizing it.
We also unpack the controversial theories surrounding Hitler’s alleged survival after World War II, questioning the official bunker-suicide narrative and examining conflicting eyewitness testimony. We also confront a deeper question: What happens psychologically when you go too far down the rabbit hole of UFOs, secret societies, occultism, and humanity’s hidden history?
From JFK and Roswell to NHI, intelligence agencies, government experimentation, disclosure, consciousness manipulation, the Men in Black, Nazi technology, occultism, and Hitler survival theories, this conversation explores whether the UFO phenomenon is technological, psychological, consciousness-related...or something far stranger.
And if powerful institutions have influenced what people believe for generations, how much of our reality is actually our own?
Get 15% off at https://orionsleep.com/mayimThanks to Monarch for partnering with me! Start your free trial and get 50% off your first year of total money clarity using my link https://monarchmoney.yt.link/ZtigfhP or code mayim50 for 50% Off Monarch Core tier.Find the fall pieces you’ll reach for most at Quince. Go to https://www.quince.com/breakdown for free shipping on your order and 365-day returns.
Learn more about Peter Levenda and his books: http://peterlevenda.com/
Follow us on Substack for Exclusive Bonus Content: https://bialikbreakdown.substack.com/
BialikBreakdown.comYouTube.com/mayimbialikSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.
Re-Air: Childhood Trauma Can Lead to Disease | Here’s How to Heal Now! | Dr. Aimie Apigian
2026/10/23
This week, we’re revisiting our very informative episode with Dr. Aimie Apigian: renowned trauma expert who helped us unpack how emotional wounds can silently rewire your nervous system and impact your health for years.
Could your chronic fatigue, anxiety, or autoimmune symptoms be signs of unresolved trauma stored in the body? In this eye-opening episode, the founder of Trauma Healing Accelerated reveals:
- The biology of trauma at the cellular level—and why it matters more than mindset alone
- The difference between stress and trauma and how your body holds onto past pain
- The hidden ways trauma affects women’s health, especially during perimenopause and menopause
- How somatic trauma healing can reset your nervous system and restore emotional safety
- How trauma responses show up as physical symptoms and coping habits you might not recognize
- The powerful link between trauma, alcohol use, and stress hormones—it’s not just about cortisol
- Why comparing your trauma story to others keeps you stuck
- How resolving trauma can unlock your intuition, clarity, and life purpose
This conversation with Dr. Aimie Apigian is a must-listen if you want to learn how to finally get unstuck from survival mode, reconnect with your body, and begin your path toward lasting emotional and physical healing.
Find the fall pieces you’ll reach for most at Quince. Go to https://www.quince.com/breakdown for free shipping on your order and 365-day returns.Go to https://helixsleep.com/breakdown to receive 20% off your Helix mattress.
Follow us on Substack for Exclusive Bonus Content: https://bialikbreakdown.substack.com/
BialikBreakdown.comYouTube.com/mayimbialikSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.
Part Two: Big Bang Theory & Two and a Half Men Creator on Signing a Billion-Year Scientology Contract, Why Success Didn’t Cure His Alcoholism, and Surviving the Public Battle with Charlie Sheen | Chuck Lorre
2026/10/21
What happens when the man behind some of television’s biggest sitcoms is secretly battling addiction, low self-esteem, and a lifelong need to prove he’s special? In this episode of Mayim Bialik's Breakdown, Chuck Lorre opens up like never before about the personal demons, painful experiences, and unexpected turning points behind his extraordinary career.
From his childhood struggles with alcohol and a mother consumed by rage to spending a decade in Scientology, Lorre reveals the darker side of a life spent creating some of the most beloved shows in television history. He discusses how he found sobriety while filming Dharma & Greg, why his alcoholism escalated despite professional success, and how tying his self-worth to his work and humor affected his relationships.
He also opens up about his complicated relationship with Charlie Sheen, why he failed to recognize the full extent of Sheen’s struggles while filming Two and a Half Men, why The Big Bang Theory became his safe space amid the chaos, and how the two eventually reconciled.
Chuck Lorre also reveals:
- The psychological paradox that shaped his life: living with low self-esteem while simultaneously believing he was special, and how that contradiction influenced his relationships, ambitions, and career
- How music saved his life: learning guitar as a child, finding direction through music, and discovering a path away from the future he feared
- How the creator of The Big Bang Theory and Two and a Half Men broke into television: his journey from music to writing for animated series and eventually creating some of the most successful primetime sitcoms ever
- The unexpected story behind the iconic Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles theme song: how he wrote it and why he believes it remains so popular decades later
- The moment he learned to trust his comedy instincts & the breakthrough that helped define his unique approach to sitcom writing
- His brilliant philosophy on comedy writing: his unconventional perspective on crafting sitcoms, finding the funny, and creating characters audiences never forget
- What it was really like working on Roseanne, navigating a production led by a powerful, complicated female star and the difficult lessons he learned about show business
- His lifelong comedy inspirations: the performers, writers, and influences that shaped his comedic sensibilities
- Personal cost of turning humor into an identity: how his work became intertwined with his self-worth and affected his closest relationships
- Being diagnosed with colitis: his experience navigating a significant health challenge while building an extraordinary career.
- Behind the scenes of The Big Bang Theory: Chuck Lorre shares his thoughts on iconic moments featuring Mayim, including the unforgettable tiara scene and Sheldon’s spanking scene
- The next chapter of The Big Bang Theory universe: how Stuart Fails to Save the Universe came about and what inspired the project
- Lessons that only decades in Hollywood can teach you — the difficult truths he discovered about success, creativity, relationships, and the entertainment industry
From writing one of the most recognizable cartoon theme songs of all time to building a television empire with The Big Bang Theory, Two and a Half Men, and Young Sheldon, Chuck Lorre’s journey is a remarkable story of ambition, creativity, addiction, recovery, and self-discovery.
How does someone who creates laughter for millions learn to live with his own pain? And what happens when professional success can no longer silence the struggles within?
This is Chuck Lorre beyond the sitcoms: unfiltered, introspective, and full of hard-won wisdom about comedy, addiction, Hollywood, and what it means to finally understand yourself.
If you love behind-the-scenes Hollywood stories, the real stories behind legendary television shows, and deeply honest conversations with the creative minds who shaped pop culture, this is an interview you won’t want to miss.
Chuck Lorre’s memoir, SITCOM: https://www.harpercollins.com/products/sitcom-chuck-lorre?variant=44983794106402Chuck Lorre's music: https://www.youtube.com/@ChuckLorreMusic
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BialikBreakdown.comYouTube.com/mayimbialikSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.
Big Bang Theory & Two and a Half Men Creator on Signing a Billion-Year Scientology Contract, Why Success Didn’t Cure His Alcoholism, and Surviving the Public Battle with Charlie Sheen | Chuck Lorre
2026/10/20
What happens when the man behind some of television’s biggest sitcoms is secretly battling addiction, low self-esteem, and a lifelong need to prove he’s special? In this episode of Mayim Bialik's Breakdown, Chuck Lorre opens up like never before about the personal demons, painful experiences, and unexpected turning points behind his extraordinary career.
From his childhood struggles with alcohol and a mother consumed by rage to spending a decade in Scientology, Lorre reveals the darker side of a life spent creating some of the most beloved shows in television history. He discusses how he found sobriety while filming Dharma & Greg, why his alcoholism escalated despite professional success, and how tying his self-worth to his work and humor affected his relationships.
He also opens up about his complicated relationship with Charlie Sheen, why he failed to recognize the full extent of Sheen’s struggles while filming Two and a Half Men, why The Big Bang Theory became his safe space amid the chaos, and how the two eventually reconciled.
Chuck Lorre also reveals:
- The psychological paradox that shaped his life: living with low self-esteem while simultaneously believing he was special, and how that contradiction influenced his relationships, ambitions, and career
- How music saved his life: learning guitar as a child, finding direction through music, and discovering a path away from the future he feared
- How the creator of The Big Bang Theory and Two and a Half Men broke into television: his journey from music to writing for animated series and eventually creating some of the most successful primetime sitcoms ever
- The unexpected story behind the iconic Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles theme song: how he wrote it and why he believes it remains so popular decades later
- The moment he learned to trust his comedy instincts & the breakthrough that helped define his unique approach to sitcom writing
- His brilliant philosophy on comedy writing: his unconventional perspective on crafting sitcoms, finding the funny, and creating characters audiences never forget
- What it was really like working on Roseanne, navigating a production led by a powerful, complicated female star and the difficult lessons he learned about show business
- His lifelong comedy inspirations: the performers, writers, and influences that shaped his comedic sensibilities
- Personal cost of turning humor into an identity: how his work became intertwined with his self-worth and affected his closest relationships
- Being diagnosed with colitis: his experience navigating a significant health challenge while building an extraordinary career.
- Behind the scenes of The Big Bang Theory: Chuck Lorre shares his thoughts on iconic moments featuring Mayim, including the unforgettable tiara scene and Sheldon’s spanking scene
- The next chapter of The Big Bang Theory universe: how Stuart Fails to Save the Universe came about and what inspired the project
- Lessons that only decades in Hollywood can teach you — the difficult truths he discovered about success, creativity, relationships, and the entertainment industry
From writing one of the most recognizable cartoon theme songs of all time to building a television empire with The Big Bang Theory, Two and a Half Men, and Young Sheldon, Chuck Lorre’s journey is a remarkable story of ambition, creativity, addiction, recovery, and self-discovery.
How does someone who creates laughter for millions learn to live with his own pain? And what happens when professional success can no longer silence the struggles within?
This is Chuck Lorre beyond the sitcoms: unfiltered, introspective, and full of hard-won wisdom about comedy, addiction, Hollywood, and what it means to finally understand yourself.
If you love behind-the-scenes Hollywood stories, the real stories behind legendary television shows, and deeply honest conversations with the creative minds who shaped pop culture, this is an interview you won’t want to miss.
A high-quality and effective air purifier is key to tackling the fall allergy season. Visit https://rabbitair.com or call their 24/7 consultants today.They can't harm you, if they can't find you! Use code MAYIM at the link below and get 60% off an annual plan: https://incogni.com/mayimFind the fall pieces you’ll reach for most at Quince. Go to https://www.quince.com/breakdown for free shipping on your order and 365-day returns.Go to https://helixsleep.com/breakdown to receive 20% off your Helix mattress.
Chuck Lorre’s memoir, SITCOM: https://www.harpercollins.com/products/sitcom-chuck-lorre?variant=44983794106402Chuck Lorre's music: https://www.youtube.com/@ChuckLorreMusic
Follow us on Substack for Exclusive Bonus Content: https://bialikbreakdown.substack.com/
BialikBreakdown.comYouTube.com/mayimbialikSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.
What Really Happens After Death - Doctors & Nurses Are Afraid To Tell You
2026/10/16
What if you could experience someone else’s death…without being the one who was dying?
For centuries, people across cultures have reported something far stranger than a traditional near death experience: shared death experiences (SDEs). Healthy, conscious people (including doctors, nurses, family members, and even people thousands of miles away) have described witnessing or experiencing phenomena seemingly connected to someone in the process of dying.
But how is that possible?
Some witnesses report seeing hovering apparitions, mysterious lights, mist, sounds, or even figures seemingly guiding the dying person into another realm. In some cases, multiple people in the same room claim to witness the same phenomenon.
Are these experiences hallucinations? A psychological response to grief? Something science hasn't yet explained? Or could they point to something much deeper about consciousness, death, and what happens when we die?
And then there are the experiences that happen after death.
People who report after-death communication experiences sometimes say they have perceived a deceased loved one as being healthy, peaceful, and fully present in what feels like a new environment. Others report receiving a specific message, sign, or unmistakable sense that their loved one is still somehow connected to them.
For those who experience them, these encounters can be profoundly comforting, sometimes helping people process grief, accept the death of someone they love, and completely rethink their understanding of the afterlife and what happens to consciousness after death.
But are these simply experiences created by the grieving mind—or could they represent something more?
We'll also revisit near-death experiencers and NDE researchers previously featured on the podcast to hear their perspectives on shared death experiences and what these accounts might tell us about consciousness, death, and the possibility of an existence beyond this life.
In this episode of Mayim Bialik's Breakdown, we explore the fascinating and controversial world of shared death experiences and ask questions that challenge the way we think about death, and perhaps even life itself.You don't have to be the one dying to experience death!
Head to https://nuropod.com/mayim for 5% off. Nuropod is a wearable device built on 10+ years of vagus nerve research, backed by 60+ clinical studies and a 30 day return guarantee. #NuropodPartner#Nuropod#VagusNerveUnlock your best hair & skin with @iRestorelaser and HUGE savings on iRESTORE with code BREAKER at https://irestore.com/BREAKER! #irestorepodGet 15% off OneSkin with the code BREAK at https://www.oneskin.co/BREAK #oneskinpod Go to https://helixsleep.com/breakdown to receive 20% off your Helix mattress.Visit https://drinkag1.com/BREAKDOWN and for a limited time, get a free Immune Support Bundle, including a bottle of Omega-3 fish oil and a bottle of Vitamin D3K2, with your first subscription order of AG1 Next Gen or AG1 Pro.Find the fall pieces you’ll reach for most at Quince. Go to https://www.quince.com/breakdown for free shipping on your order and 365-day returns.Upgrade your kitchen with Our Place today. Visit http://fromourplace.com/BREAK and use code BREAK for 10% off sitewide.
Follow us on Substack for Exclusive Bonus Content: https://bialikbreakdown.substack.com/
BialikBreakdown.comYouTube.com/mayimbialikSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.
Part Two: Some Psychic Abilities Are Dangerous: Aliens, Telepathy & Discovering Your Gifts | Dr. Dean Radin
2026/10/14
What if telepathy, precognition, remote viewing, psychic abilities, and even “magic” are real, but science has been looking at them the wrong way? Could human consciousness actually be connected across space and time? Could your brain and body be responding to information from the future without you consciously knowing it?
In this episode of Mayim Bialik's Breakdown, Dr. Dean Radin, Chief Scientist at the Institute of Noetic Sciences (IONS) & Cofounder of neuroengineering company Cognigenics, explores some of the biggest questions at the intersection of consciousness, quantum physics, parapsychology, psychic phenomena, telepathy, precognition, remote viewing, and the nature of reality.
Dr. Radin explains what Noetic science actually is and why decades of research into “paranormal” phenomena continue to challenge conventional scientific assumptions. He explores evidence suggesting that human consciousness may influence quantum reality and whether the relationship between mind and matter could help explain phenomena like prayer.
Why can’t psychics use their abilities to win the lottery? If precognition exists, is the future actually fixed, or are we simply sensing probabilities? And when you have a powerful intuition or premonition, are you predicting the future, or accidentally manifesting your own fears?
We also dive into the mystery of telepathy, tracing the history of scientific telepathy experiments and how researchers have attempted to test them over the years. What blocks psychic intuition in the first place? Could constant stimulation, distraction, technology, and the noise of the outside world be preventing us from accessing subtle information? Are humans already responding physiologically to “nonlocal” information without consciously realizing it?
Dr. Radin also discusses why AI may be biased against conclusions that validate paranormal phenomena, and the strange history of how Western civilization went from believing in magic to rejecting it, a transformation sometimes described as the “disenchantment of the world.” From his perspective as a scientist, what would it take to make paranormal phenomena more scientifically acceptable to study?
We examine one of the biggest problems in parapsychology: reproducibility. Why are paranormal laboratory results so difficult to replicate? Are the phenomena themselves variable, or are traditional scientific methods running into fundamental boundaries when applied to consciousness?
We explore government research into remote viewing - including how Dr. Radin's interest in the paranormal was influenced by research connected to the U.S. government's Stargate program - and tackle one of the most controversial questions surrounding modern paranormal experiences: Why do certain people seem able to encounter or summon orbs or nonhuman intelligence (NHI), while others never experience anything at all? Dr. Radin shares his thoughts on people such as Chris Bledsoe, who have reported extraordinary encounters with orbs and NHI, and explores why fear may play a major role in determining who can or can't experience these phenomena.
He also recounts a deeply personal childhood experience on Iroquois land, when he saw what appeared to be a thunderbird. Could that strange encounter have somehow foreshadowed his eventual career investigating consciousness and the paranormal?
We unpack the Global Consciousness Project and its investigation into whether human consciousness may exhibit measurable connectivity on a global scale. Could this research provide clues about the deeper relationship between mind, matter, interconnectedness, and prayer?
And perhaps the most futuristic question of all: Could we genetically engineer someone to become psychic? Could future biotechnology enhance sensitivity to psychic phenomena, or even suppress that sensitivity if it proves psychologically harmful?
Ultimately, Dr. Radin asks us to reconsider one of the most fundamental assumptions of modern science:
Is consciousness simply something produced by the brain, or is consciousness actually permeating the fabric of reality itself?
Learn more about Dr. Dean Radin and his work: https://www.deanradin.com/Learn more about IONS: https://noetic.org/breakdown/IONS' YT: @instituteofnoeticsciencesIONS free live webinars: https://noetic.org/experience/connect...IONS peer-reviewed papers: https://noetic.org/science/publications/Participate in IONS research: https://noetic.org/science/participat...IONS Research Prize on UAPs: https://noetic.org/prize/
Follow us on Substack for Exclusive Bonus Content: https://bialikbreakdown.substack.com/
BialikBreakdown.comYouTube.com/mayimbialikSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.
Some Psychic Abilities Are Dangerous: Aliens, Telepathy & Discovering Your Gifts | Dr. Dean Radin
2026/10/13
What if telepathy, precognition, remote viewing, psychic abilities, and even “magic” are real, but science has been looking at them the wrong way? Could human consciousness actually be connected across space and time? Could your brain and body be responding to information from the future without you consciously knowing it?
In this episode of Mayim Bialik's Breakdown, Dr. Dean Radin, Chief Scientist at the Institute of Noetic Sciences (IONS) & Cofounder of neuroengineering company Cognigenics, explores some of the biggest questions at the intersection of consciousness, quantum physics, parapsychology, psychic phenomena, telepathy, precognition, remote viewing, and the nature of reality.
Dr. Radin explains what Noetic science actually is and why decades of research into “paranormal” phenomena continue to challenge conventional scientific assumptions. He explores evidence suggesting that human consciousness may influence quantum reality and whether the relationship between mind and matter could help explain phenomena like prayer.
Why can’t psychics use their abilities to win the lottery? If precognition exists, is the future actually fixed, or are we simply sensing probabilities? And when you have a powerful intuition or premonition, are you predicting the future, or accidentally manifesting your own fears?
We also dive into the mystery of telepathy, tracing the history of scientific telepathy experiments and how researchers have attempted to test them over the years. What blocks psychic intuition in the first place? Could constant stimulation, distraction, technology, and the noise of the outside world be preventing us from accessing subtle information? Are humans already responding physiologically to “nonlocal” information without consciously realizing it?
Dr. Radin also discusses why AI may be biased against conclusions that validate paranormal phenomena, and the strange history of how Western civilization went from believing in magic to rejecting it, a transformation sometimes described as the “disenchantment of the world.” From his perspective as a scientist, what would it take to make paranormal phenomena more scientifically acceptable to study?
We examine one of the biggest problems in parapsychology: reproducibility. Why are paranormal laboratory results so difficult to replicate? Are the phenomena themselves variable, or are traditional scientific methods running into fundamental boundaries when applied to consciousness?
We explore government research into remote viewing - including how Dr. Radin's interest in the paranormal was influenced by research connected to the U.S. government's Stargate program - and tackle one of the most controversial questions surrounding modern paranormal experiences: Why do certain people seem able to encounter or summon orbs or nonhuman intelligence (NHI), while others never experience anything at all? Dr. Radin shares his thoughts on people such as Chris Bledsoe, who have reported extraordinary encounters with orbs and NHI, and explores why fear may play a major role in determining who can or can't experience these phenomena.
He also recounts a deeply personal childhood experience on Iroquois land, when he saw what appeared to be a thunderbird. Could that strange encounter have somehow foreshadowed his eventual career investigating consciousness and the paranormal?
We unpack the Global Consciousness Project and its investigation into whether human consciousness may exhibit measurable connectivity on a global scale. Could this research provide clues about the deeper relationship between mind, matter, interconnectedness, and prayer?
And perhaps the most futuristic question of all: Could we genetically engineer someone to become psychic? Could future biotechnology enhance sensitivity to psychic phenomena, or even suppress that sensitivity if it proves psychologically harmful?
Ultimately, Dr. Radin asks us to reconsider one of the most fundamental assumptions of modern science:
Is consciousness simply something produced by the brain, or is consciousness actually permeating the fabric of reality itself?
If you're struggling with OCD or unrelenting intrusive thoughts, NOCD can help. Book a free 15 minute call to get started: https://learn.nocd.com/BREAKStart your new morning ritual & get up to 43% off your @MUDWTR with code BREAK at https://mudwtr.com/BREAK! #mudwtrpodGo to https://helixsleep.com/breakdown to receive 20% off your Helix mattress.Visit https://drinkag1.com/BREAKDOWN and for a limited time, get a free Immune Support Bundle, including a bottle of Omega-3 fish oil and a bottle of Vitamin D3K2, with your first subscription order of AG1 Next Gen or AG1 Pro.Find the fall pieces you’ll reach for most at Quince. Go to https://www.quince.com/breakdown for free shipping on your order and 365-day returns.Upgrade your kitchen with Our Place today. Visit http://fromourplace.com/BREAK and use code BREAK for 10% off sitewide.
Learn more about Dr. Dean Radin and his work: https://www.deanradin.com/Learn more about IONS: https://noetic.org/breakdown/IONS' YT: @instituteofnoeticsciencesIONS free live webinars: https://noetic.org/experience/connect...IONS peer-reviewed papers: https://noetic.org/science/publications/Participate in IONS research: https://noetic.org/science/participat...IONS Research Prize on UAPs: https://noetic.org/prize/
Follow us on Substack for Exclusive Bonus Content: https://bialikbreakdown.substack.com/
BialikBreakdown.comYouTube.com/mayimbialikSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.
Substack Exclusive: Making the Paranormal Normal | Mystic Michaela
2026/10/10
This week we’re sharing a chat Jonathan held on his Substack page, Practical Spirituality, with Mystic Michaela: author, podcast host, and fourth generation psychic medium who specializes in reading auras.
When talking about energy, we explore the question: can you connect to someone’s energy when they aren’t in the room? Michaela says yes. Every version of you still exists, and you can send energy back to a past version of yourself and see that time differently. Nothing ever goes away. Energy is not only present but readable.
What if we’re all mirrored systems giving off a frequency? Most people can’t read it the way Michaela does, but everyone is interacting with it whether they notice or not.
We also talked about how to find your own form of intuition, how to use a pendulum, and what might be happening if you think you’re encountering a ghost. Spoiler: some of them stick around because they want to live with you.
Go to https://helixsleep.com/breakdown to receive 20% off your Helix mattress.Visit https://drinkag1.com/BREAKDOWN and for a limited time, get a free Immune Support Bundle, including a bottle of Omega-3 fish oil and a bottle of Vitamin D3K2, with your first subscription order of AG1 Next Gen or AG1 Pro.Find the fall pieces you’ll reach for most at Quince. Go to https://www.quince.com/breakdown for free shipping on your order and 365-day returns.Upgrade your kitchen with Our Place today. Visit fromourplace.com/BREAK and use code BREAK for 10% off sitewide.Kava Haven: All the Buzz, None of the Booze — get 15% off your first order at http://kavahaven.com/breakerGo to https://alyahealth.com/s/breaker and use code BREAKER for 20% off your first order.Use code BREAKER at https://jonesroadbeauty.com to get a Free Gift with your first purchase!
Follow us on Substack for Exclusive Bonus Content: https://bialikbreakdown.substack.com/
BialikBreakdown.comYouTube.com/mayimbialikSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.
Podcast reviews
Read Mayim Bialik's Breakdown podcast reviews
4.7 out of 5
5671 reviews
★★★★★
Dr ELFS-- Music teacher 2026/11/08
weirdos finally feeling normal
this podcast makes scientists and philosophers of all kinds who have unexplainable experiences feel like we can actually study and find the norms in ...
★★★★★
CarrieJLa 2026/11/07
Fabulous Fabulous Fabulous
Thank you Mayim and Jonathan for the topics you dive into on this podcast. I just discovered it this past summer and I’ve been enjoying binge watching...
★★★☆☆
bailmeoutta@345 2026/11/04
Get out of your linear brain
The difficulty Mayim runs into over and over again is she keeps trying to use
brain and linear thinking to reason through things that can only be felt...
★★★★★
Q.Writer 2026/11/04
The Best of the Best....!
5 Stars
You Rock....!
★★★★★
Kate Szewczyk 2026/10/23
My people
This is my favorite podcast. Thank you for merging the unknown and science we have needed this for years. I look forward to every episode. Thank you J...
★★★★★
Lvero19 2026/10/20
Love this podcast!!
This is my all-time favorite show to listen to. It’s funny, insightful, pretty deep at times and incredibly intelligent!
Mayim & Jonathan can really g...
★★★★★
susanebere 2026/10/20
Love this show!
Loving everything Mayim Bialik says and does, this show also matches my sensibilities and spirituality. Just heard Part 1 of Chuck Lorre episode. Can’...
★★★★★
bean.view 2026/10/16
Go to ‘Subscribers episodes’ for no ads
Aside from the alarming “SWOOSH” between topics—- awesome insights
★★★★★
Casey lee hillman 2026/10/15
“notion”
Love this podcast, but please choose another word besides “Notion” lol. That word is said minimum 10+ times each podcast. “There’s this notion that…” ...
★☆☆☆☆
Agm0904 2026/10/14
Hypocrite
How someone can sit there and talk about God and the divine universe etc etc and still LOUDLY champion geno-cide is bonkers to me. Don’t be fooled by ...