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A special crossover from our friends at Complexified for you this week! Tim Schrader Rodriguez spent eight years trying to "pray out the gay". He modulated his voice. He stopped listening to music with female lead singers. He sat weekly with a therapist who watched him come apart — and said nothing. Last week, the Supreme Court ruled 8–1 that therapists have a First Amendment right to pursue conversion therapy with their patients, upending a Colorado ban on the practice. This isn't history, nor is it a Colorado-only case. Bans that advocates spent years winning in state after state will unravel. Amanda Henderson talks with Tim this week about what eight years inside that world actually felt like — and what it means that the one protected space survivors thought they still had is now gone. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

What if Jesus really meant what he said? Like, including all that love your enemy stuff. The better question maybe is what would happen if Jesus's followers believed he really meant what he said — and acted on it? It could change society and, according to Bart Ehrman, it already has. On this episode, Katelyn and Roxy talk with Ehrman — a New Testament scholar, agnostic atheist and somewhat unlikely defender of Jesus' most radical teachings — about how Jesus' command to care for people on the periphery shaped the moral "common sense" of the Western world. From public hospitals to disaster relief to orphanages, much of our social safety net can be traced back to Christian invention, he argues. It's a particularly urgent conversation at a time when Christianity is claimed in the name of everything from war to mass deportations to repealing women's right to vote. GUEST: Bart D. Ehrman is a distinguished professor of religious studies at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill and the author of numerous books on the New Testament and early Christianity, including his latest "Love Thy Stranger: How the Teachings of Jesus Transformed the Moral Conscience of the West." Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Bro, do you even know your facial thirds? In an era of overexposure, perhaps looksmaxxing was inevitable. Clavicular, the face of this buzzy new internet phenomenon, tells us an uncomfortable truth we probably already knew: physical attractiveness gets you places. And, in true manosphere fashion, he is taking that to its transgressive extreme — steroid use, appetite suppressants, bone smashing, jaw surgeries, an incalculable amount of supplements and an obsessive fixation on achieving the perfect body ratios. But to what end?  On this episode of the podcast, Katelyn and Roxy examine the looksmaxxers' zealous pursuit of physical "ascension" and its guiding ethos of self-optimization at seemingly all costs. We are joined by RNS national reporter Fiona Murphy to discuss the "inverted asceticism" of the looksmaxxing community and its connections to the broader manosphere. We also get into the other manosphere development of late: Louis Theroux's new documentary, which follows several streamers and podcast hosts displaying a range of bad behaviors in pursuit of clicks. And we ask: what role is religion playing in all this male meaning-making? GUEST: Fiona Murphy is a New York-based multimedia journalist and national reporter at Religion News Service. Murphy covers local stories as well as national trends, with a focus on how faith intersects with digital life, identity and community. When it comes to the manosphere, she has written on Looksmaxxing, Catholicism and the new discipline of the body, and Nick Fuentes and the Groyper challenge to Catholicism. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

The Noah's Ark story should come with a content warning. The Beginner's Bible. The Precious Moments Bible. The Jesus Storybook Bible. Children's Bibles remain an incredibly popular way for parents to teach their kids the faith. Roxy and Katelyn both remember the Bible stories that left a deep impression on them (a female spy! Fake arm hair!). But some of those stories can be confusing or downright scary. And when taught within a legalistic framework, they can turn faith into an obedience training program rather than a relationship with a gracious parent. That's why our guest on this episode, Meredith Miller, is equipping parents to teach the faith from a posture of curiosity and connection. Miller is a pastor and author of "Wonder: 52 Conversations to Help Kids Fall in Love with Scripture." She previously served as curriculum director for the children's ministry at Willow Creek Community Church. She explains why the Noah's Ark story should not be taught to kids ... and walks us through how she teaches children about the cross in developmentally appropriate ways. Plus: We break down the top scariest Bible stories for kids. Guest:  Meredith Miller is co-pastor of Pamona Valley Church and author of "Wonder: 52 Conversations to Help Kids Fall in Love with Scripture" and Woven: Nurturing a Faith Your Kid Doesn't Have to Heal From. She writes at the Kids + Faith substack. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Every generation gets its revival story. In 1971, Time Magazine ran "The Jesus Revolution." In 1998, the New York Times wondered if evangelicals were "on the threshold of a huge spiritual revival." And in 2025, headlines screamed that Gen Z was flocking back to church, that young men were leading a religious resurgence, that Charlie Kirk's death had sparked mass conversions. On this episode, Katelyn and Roxy ask: Is any of it actually true? Spoiler alert: not really. We're joined by Ryan Burge, political scientist and religion data aficionado, who brings receipts. Turns out Gen Z is the least religious generation in American history. There's no male revival — just a female exodus. And, according to Burge, we're not so much seeing a conservative surge as a hollowing out of moderates as churches polarize along political lines. But anecdotes remain and there does seem to be something going on in Christian America — even if we wouldn't call it a revival. Guest: Ryan Burge is professor of practice at the John C. Danforth Center on Religion and Politics at Washington University in St. Louis. He writes at his substack "Graphs About Religion" and is the author of half a dozen books on religion and politics in the U.S., including his most recent "The Vanishing Church: How the Hollowing Out of Moderate Congregations Is Hurting Democracy, Faith, and Us (Why the Culture Wars Led to Polarization and What We Can Do About It)." Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Roxy & Katelyn are coming in hot with a deep dive into how the MAGA movement may be losing women. The Justice Department's seemingly reticent release of the Epstein files has led some prominent figures such as Marjorie Taylor Greene to disavow her ties to President Donald Trump, as many women's cries for justice for survivors grow louder. The MAHA ("Make America Healthy Again") base, led by influencers like Alex Clark, feel betrayed by the administration for letting more toxins such as Roundup to be produced on American soil. And Trump's women supporters find themselves part of a wide-reaching coalition that includes men like pastor Douglas Wilson, who has wondered aloud whether women should have the right to vote at all. It's a wild political and cultural moment, one Katelyn and Roxy are eager to tackle this season. Chapters 0:00 — Intro / 2026 check-in 1:41 — News quiz 8:16 — The Epstein files 18:20 — MAHA moms and the glyphosate betrayal 24:12 — Doug Wilson and the war for women 32:17 — Outro Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

A Saved By The City Crossover Event! We're back! ALMOST. We recently joined another RNS podcast to look at how Christian womanhood has changed—and not in the ways we could have expected. In this episode of Complexified, host Amanda Henderson talks with us about the shift from 1990s purity culture to today’s trad wives, MAGA moms, and warnings against “toxic empathy.” The three of us unpack how pandemic burnout, influencer culture, and widening political gender gaps reshaped the ideal Christian woman — and why empathy itself has become a flashpoint. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

A Special Episode from The State of Belief! We’re sharing a special episode from The State of Belief — a wide-ranging conversation with Religion News Service reporters Jack Jenkins and Adelle M. Banks on the faith angles you don’t hear in the standard year-end news wrap. From immigration and church-state battles to DEI backlash, workplace shocks, and the shock of an American pope, they trace what 2025 revealed about power, justice, and public trust — and what questions we should be asking as 2026 approaches. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Can we talk about the beard hair in the sink? Getting engaged is exciting! But saying goodbye to singleness is not so straightforward — especially when you've spent years defending and celebrating the single life. On this episode, Katelyn and Roxy admit letting go of being single felt more complicated than they expected. Sure, you have someone else to eat with ... but you also have to figure out who is getting groceries. You gain a life partner ... but you lose a lot of alone time. Did we make an idol out of singleness? Maybe. But also our joy in that identity felt hard-won and we were proud of the lives we'd carved out on our own.  But, hey, it's the end of a season (literally, it's our last episode of 2025!) and it's time to let go. Katelyn is getting married and moving in with a man and we are here for it. We talk all the logistics — and also the profound shifts that are bound to come when you merge your life with another person's. Plus: a quiz to test just how chill Katelyn really is about cohabitation (spoiler: not very), some marriage advice from Roxy, and why it's OK to grieve a good season of life even when you're genuinely excited about what's next. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

There's even an ICE Nativity. Baby Jesus in zip ties. Mary and Joseph in gas masks. Roman centurions wearing ICE vests. This December, nativity scenes are getting political. Lake Street Church in Evanston, Illinois sparked national attention with their ICE-themed nativity. Sean Hannity called it "woke" and a "war on Christmas." The Daily Show covered it. But it's just one example of clergy around the country participating in immigration activism — getting arrested outside detention centers, accompanying people to immigration hearings, taking food and the Eucharist to migrants too afraid to leave their homes.  On this episode, Katelyn and Roxy talk with one clergy person, Michael Woolf, who has long been involved in immigrant activism and who was recently arrested outside an ICE detention center near Chicago. His church was responsible for the aforementioned provocative nativity and he believes clergy should be willing to put their bodies on the line in this moment. We are also joined by RNS reporter Jack Jenkins, who has been reporting on clergy efforts to resist ICE around the country.   GUESTS: The Rev. Michael Woolf is a senior minister of Lake Street Church of Evanston, Illinois, and the author of “Sanctuary and Subjectivity: Thinking Theologically About Whiteness and Sanctuary Movements.” He also has an upcoming book, "Confronting Islamophobia in the Church: Liturgical Tools for Justice," co-written with his wife, Ana Piela. Jack Jenkins is a national reporter for Religion News Service and has covered immigration issues and progressive clergy for a decade at least, including in his book on the religious left: "American Prophets: The Religious Roots of Progressive Politics and the Ongoing Fight for the Soul of the Country." Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

They’re stylish, savvy, with podcasts, book deals, and massive Instagram followings. And they’re calling women back to the kitchen. A new wave of conservative Christian women, many balancing high-powered platforms and hard-charging careers with old-fashioned family values, are gaining influence by promoting traditional gender roles, homemaking aesthetics, and “biblical womanhood.” But beneath the sourdough and matching family outfits is a politically resonant ideology that’s shaping national conversations around gender, faith, and power. On this LIVE Saved By the City episode, recorded in Austin at the Texas Tribune Festival, Katelyn and Roxy host a lively panel to look at what’s behind the rise of these “tradwife” voices, what their popularity says about the cultural moment and why women are leading the charge to rewrite women’s roles. GUESTS: Emma Goldberg is a reporter for The New York Times, covering cultural, societal and economic change. Her articles “‘Less Burnout, More Babies’: How Conservatives Are Winning Young Women”  and "The Moms of ‘Momcon’ Are Stressed, but Ready to Party" are essential reading on this topic. Christine Emba is a senior fellow at the American Enterprise Institute, a contributing writer for the New York Times, and author of the book Rethinking Sex. Lauren Southern is a former political activist. Her new memoir "This Is Not Real Life" chronicles her experience as an online conservative influencer and how trying to be a tradwife nearly destroyed her. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Exploring the mystical, the skeptical, and the spiritually surprising with Ross Douthat. What’s your woo level? In this episode, Katelyn and Roxy run through their most mystical instincts—angels, ghosts, manifesting, energies, astrology—and ask whether modern Christians have grown a little too allergic to spiritual experience. Then New York Times columnist and UFO enthusiast Ross Douthat joins to talk about the persistence of the supernatural, why he thinks religion is still the most rational bet, and the dangers of patchwork spirituality. A funny, curious, and unexpectedly grounding conversation about what might be lurking just beyond the empirical. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Let's call it 'passion fatigue'... In the days of the early 'aughts, as Millennials began embarking into the workplace, companies noticed these young employees wanted a mission — wanted to feel connected to the work they were doing, even inspired by it. No longer was a paycheck enough, these bright-eyed twentysomethings wanted purpose. And in Christian circles, this generational trend was sanctified and spiritualized. Careers became callings. Jobs became vocations. And all of it could and should be done for the glory of God and for the common good. Extra bonus points if your deepest passions met the world's deepest needs. On this episode, Katelyn and Roxy examine this impulse to elevate paid work to sacred calling — how it has served us and how it has hurt us. We are joined by Karen Swallow Prior as we discuss all the different ways callings can present themselves in our lives. (That's right - callings, plural!). GUEST: Karen Swallow Prior is the 2025-26 Karlson Scholar at Bethel Seminary. She is a columnist for RNS and the author of several books, including her most recent: "You Have a Calling: Finding your Vocation in the True, Good, and Beautiful." Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Is it the holy spirit or is it a ponytail facelift? What does it even mean anymore to age with grace in the era of deep plane facelifts and eyelid surgeries and celebrity procedures that have women looking 40 years younger? On this episode of the podcast, Katelyn and Roxy wrestle with tensions and fears about aging ... about why our faces just do not look like our faces in the mirror anymore. And we ask: Is "having some work done" becoming inevitable? Instagram and TikTok are full of posts on the dramatic changes these procedures can create — and they are no longer limited to celebrities. Social media is showing us just how accessible — and gosh darn effective — today's cosmetic procedures have become. But at what cost? Certainly at the cost of tens of thousands of dollars. But what else are we losing if we refuse to grow old?   Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Beware the charismatic pastor? America has long had a love affair with celebrity — be that of the Hollywood variety or the political ilk. From superstar athletes to celebrity chefs, their woo is not wasted on us. And the history of American Christianity was shaped by men (and a few women) who possessed that irresistible gravitational pull. They held evangelistic revivals, founded denominations and even new religions, and inspired movements. They also sometimes amassed huge amounts of personal wealth, had scandalous affairs and led their followers to commit deadly acts. Charisma has been a powerful tool in the American church and on this episode of the podcast, Katelyn and Roxy talk to historian Molly Worthen about how that tool has been used for good and evil ... and how charismatic politicians have begun to fill the void as religion declines. Plus: we take a personal Rizz Quiz GUEST: Molly Worthen is a professor of history at the University of North Carolina, where she focuses on North American religious and intellectual history. She is the author most recently of Spellbound: How Charisma Shaped American History from the Puritans to Donald Trump. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices