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We’re thrilled to have retired Maryland judge, and current mediator, Zuberi Williams, affectionately known as “Judge Zu,” with us to share his involvement with the ABA Judicial Intern Opportunity Program (JIOP) as well as insights into how every facet of a lawyer’s life impacts lives and shapes careers. JIOP places 1L and 2L students with experienced judges, exposing students from underrepresented communities to the judicial system, gaining direct exposure to the judicial decision-making process. Williams himself is an alum of the program. Williams explores how his observations from the bench provided insights into how real people make decisions and come to agreements. There’s a process, and sometimes when left to find their own way, parties in a dispute find they can understand each position and reach a settlement. It’s about helping them “enlarge their view.” Disputes, Williams says, are about more than the law, they’re about people. Enjoy a fascinating and wide-ranging conversation as Williams tells host Mic Rogson how his experience as an intern led him to become a mentor for future lawyers and judges and the duty we all have to both learn from others and share that knowledge. This is an inspiring episode that may leave you looking for ways to give back and develop the next generation of legal leaders. Have a question, comment, or suggestion for an upcoming episode? Get in touch at [email protected] or [email protected].   Resources Mentioned:   ABA Judicial Intern Opportunity Program (JIOP) “Succession,” trailer, YouTube “Silo,” trailer, YouTube “Landman,” trailer, YouTube “Lanterns,” trailer, YouTube “Des,” trailer, YouTube “AFI's 100 Years...100 Movies — 10th Anniversary Edition,” American Film Institute American Bar Association American Bar Association Litigation Section

AI might be what everyone’s talking about, but does anyone know what they’re talking about? Guest Chris Schwegmann is a trial lawyer and managing partner at the Dallas firm of Lynn Pinker Hurst & Schwegmann. He’s also a pioneer and an expert in incorporating AI capabilities into law firm operations. AI doesn’t come with instruction manuals. So Schwegmann dove in asking, “What sorcery is this?” Natural curiosity and understanding how to parse the language correctly led to “magic,” he says. Lawyers, with their understanding of language, have the capacity to master AI, which depends on accurate, focused, prompts. From using AI to spot logic gaps in opposing counsel’s brief to crafting arguments that resonate with a specific judge’s style, based on courtroom transcripts, Schwegmann has learned to incorporate the tool into his daily practice. There is a tremendous amount of information out there, and AI can harness and organize that information in ways lawyers never could before. Just as Google, LexisNexis, and Westlaw transformed legal research decades ago, Schwegmann argues AI tools will once again revolutionize the profession. Get on board or be left behind. Not sure how? Schwegmann shares his insights and his unique understanding of this massive new set of tools. You don’t want to miss this. Plus, a quick tip from Lauren Williams, focusing on being the person others rely on. Have a question, comment, or suggestion for an upcoming episode? Get in touch at [email protected] or [email protected].   Resources Mentioned:  “The Unguarded Mind: AI Chat Logs and a New Frontier for Discovery,” by Chris Schwegmann ABA Litigation Journal “Co-Intelligence: Living and Working with AI,” by Ethan Mollick ChatGPT LexisNexis Westlaw “Law School AI Bans Teach Exactly the Wrong Lesson,” Donald Tobin and Samuel Irwin,” Jurist.org American Bar Association American Bar Association Litigation Section

Round Table Group is a Premier Sponsor of the ABA Litigation Section. The selection of the Round Table Group as the subject of this interview should not be construed as an endorsement by the American Bar Association of the Round Table Group and its services. ----- Finding the right expert witness for your case can be a challenge. You want a witness who knows the topic, helps you ask the right questions, can handle a grilling from opposing counsel, and resonates with the judge and the jury. Guest Brice David is the senior manager of IP expert witness services at The Round Table Group, a pioneering firm in the field of expert witness referral services. Successful lawyers know the law, but that doesn’t mean they understand highly complicated fields involving technology, patents, applications, even finance. That’s what experts are for. When it comes to selecting a witness, there’s a lot in play, from technical expertise to presentation style to availability to even something as simple as a regional accent or the wrong suit. Hear some real-world stories about what can go wrong (or right) when choosing an expert.  Plus, a quick tip from Lauren Williams on learning to slow down and enjoy the summer. Have a question, comment, or suggestion for an upcoming episode? Get in touch at [email protected] or [email protected]. Resources Mentioned:  Round Table Group American Bar Association American Bar Association Litigation Section

Shakespeare and law school might not be as far apart as you thought. Guest Len Niehoff is a professor of law at the University of Michigan Law School and the author of the recent book Meeting Shakespeare at the Bar: Reading the Bard Through the Lens of the Law, a book written for both lawyers and non-lawyers offering practical insights into how Shakespeare’s works illuminate the questions of law, ethics, and advocacy. As an innovative professor and a lifelong fan of the Bard, Niehoff began studying, and encouraging students to study, Shakespeare’s interest in the rule of law, what puts the rule of law at risk, personal responsibility, and how law can be twisted into the unlawful. “It was kind of a natural transition to turn to Shakespeare,” he says. Indeed, Measure for Measure and The Merchant of Venice have trials at their heart. But Niehoff and his students look at how the law works it into other plays, such as Julius Caesar, MacBeth and Hamlet. Now imagine a group of lawyers meeting up with Shakespeare one evening at a local bar, sharing war stories, funny moments, and issues of ethics, and morality and the law. That’s the book. Niehoff’s fascinating examination of Shakespeare’s work and the law may have you thinking about the human condition differently. Have a question, comment, or suggestion for an upcoming episode? Get in touch at [email protected] or [email protected]. Resources Mentioned:  “Meeting Shakespeare at the Bar: Reading the Bard Through the Lens of the Law,” by Leonard M Niehoff “Tanner v. United States”, Justia  “Cattle: Related Cases,” AnimalLaw.info Twombly and Iqbal, “Twiqbal,” Wikipedia “The Crucible,” by Arthur Miller “Shakespeare Unlimited Podcast,” Folger Shakespeare Library “Macbeth,” Shakespeare, full play “Titus Andronicus,” Shakespeare, full play “Henry VI, Part 2,” Shakespeare, full play “Othello,” Shakespeare, full play “Hamlet,” Kenneth Branagh, full movie, free, YouTube American Bar Association American Bar Association Litigation Section

What’s new in the ever-evolving world of electronic discovery as we’ve moved from paper to predictive coding to the cloud. With more than 30 years of experience in the field, guest Emerson Bretous of Sovereign Discovery is one of the country’s leading experts in e-discovery and has followed all the developments as discovery moved from paper to digital. Are you old enough to remember time spent in windowless rooms digging through boxes of paper discovery documents? Bretous has seen it all. The modern avalanche of digital discovery started with the rise of emails around the turn of the century. Suddenly, there was no paper trail; the trail was stored on hard drives and in data centers. Now there are AI platforms designed to sift through gigabytes of data in hours, a process that might have taken a human days or weeks to review. Hear about the evolution of predictive coding, training AI “helpers” to find the pieces that could prove vital to your case. Today’s AI tools help attorneys save time poring over data dumps so they can focus on other tasks that call for their expertise. Organizations need to understand what kind of, and how much, data they are creating – all those group chats and Fireflies.ai meeting transcripts – and that all of it can be efficiently searched by opposing counsel during discovery. Plus, a quick tip from Lauren Williams on networking at the ABA’s upcoming annual convention. Have a question, comment, or suggestion for an upcoming episode? Get in touch at [email protected] or [email protected]. Resources Mentioned: American Bar Association Annual Convention American Bar Association American Bar Association Litigation Section

Jump into a grab bag of legal issues, a “law salad” of ideas that have lately been on the minds of hosts Jim Reeder and Mic Rogson. Law may teach you to think like a lawyer, but does it also teach the practice of law? Hear what Mic and Jim walked away with on graduation day and how it applied to their careers and decades of experience. Practicing law after law school sometimes produces surprises, like learning to mix linear thinking with creativity. You can prepare all you want, but sometimes you need to be “as flexible as Gumby,” Mic says. In the real world,  Jim says, practicing lawyers learn to be comfortable. Comfortable with creativity, comfortable with reacting to surprises, and comfortable admitting to the judge, and themselves, that they don’t know everything and may need time to review unfamiliar case law when it crops up in the courtroom. Intimidation and anxiety are the enemy, and young lawyers must learn to relax and react. Then, forget “real life” as Mic and Jim share their favorite courtroom dramas and comedies. What’s your guilty pleasure, and which productions capture how you feel about the law? Everything from the gravity of “Judgment at Nuremberg” to the lighthearted “Legally Blonde” to the surprisingly accurate portrayal in “My Cousin Vinny.” What’s your favorite? Have a question, comment, or suggestion for an upcoming episode? Get in touch at [email protected] or [email protected]. Resources Mentioned: “Top 10 Movies Every Law Student Must See - Best Legal Drama Movies,” YouTube “Top 10 Most Accurate Law Movies,” YouTube American Bar Association American Bar Association Litigation Section

The challenging field of family law is a vital part of the litigation profession, demanding an understanding of both the law and the psychological trauma that can dramatically affect the well-being of children and others caught in the middle. Guest Ashish Joshi is a Michigan attorney and author who has devoted his career to helping those struggling through the most difficult situations imaginable. Family violence, coercion, and control are, unfortunately, a huge and often under recognized part of our legal reality. The field of family law can include issues including parental alienation, child abduction, the weaponization of children and their relationships with sparring parents, gaslighting and manipulation, and even complicated adjacent areas of law such as hidden assets, stalking, and pet abuse. Family law litigation requires a complex skill set and mental toughness, but it’s a vital part of our lives. Joshi shares how practicing in the field involves working with people going through the worst period of their lives, the protection of innocent and powerless victims, and the field of psychology and human behavior. Looking for a challenge and the opportunity to make a difference in someone’s life? Family law litigation is a demanding and rewarding field. Also in this episode, quick tips from Erin Clifford, managing director at Clifford Law Offices, about avoiding legal burnout. Have a question, comment, or suggestion for an upcoming episode? Get in touch at [email protected] or [email protected]. Resources Mentioned:  “Litigating Family Violence: A Practitioner's Handbook” by Ashish Joshi “Cross Examining Experts in the Behavioral Sciences,” by Demosthenes Lorandos “Justin Fairfax Killed His Estranged Wife and Himself 2 Weeks Before a Court Deadline to Move Out,” Associated Press  American Bar Association American Bar Association Litigation Section

Relativity is a Sponsor of Litigation Radio. On this episode, we will hear from Cristin Traylor, Senior Director of AI transformation & law firm strategy at Relativity. The selection of Relativity as the subject of this interview should not be construed as an endorsement by the American Bar Association of Relativity and its services. Generative AI technology is transforming the world of legal e-discovery from start to finish, and it’s advancing by the day. Guest Cristin Traylor is an attorney and the senior director of AI transformation & law firm strategy at Relativity, a leading legal data intelligence company.  Where is AI taking the legal world, and how is it changing the way legal teams sift, manage, and use the electronic data delivered during discovery? Forget boxes of legal paperwork and records. Today, AI can organize and analyze terabytes of digital information. But understanding the technology and its pitfalls—and knowing how to train an AI model—is vital to getting results that matter to uncover the story told by the data. The use of AI in the electronic discovery process and the ability to dig into digital data dumps is not something any firm can afford to put off. This is today’s legal environment and the future of discovery. What are you missing? What might opposing counsel understand that you don’t? If you don’t employ an AI tool, should you? If you have access to AI tools, do you know how to manage them, “train” them, and write effective prompts? You most likely didn’t learn this in law school. You probably don't know what you don't know. Traylor offers a fascinating glimpse into the present and future of legal generative AI technology. You probably don’t know what you don’t know. Also in this episode, quick tips from Lauren Williams as she discusses building a career while also taking care of your own wellbeing. Have a question, comment, or suggestion for an upcoming episode? Get in touch at [email protected] or [email protected].  Resources Mentioned:  Relativity aiR case strategy technology “More Da Silva: 3 Takeaways from Judge Peck's 'Rio Tinto' Opinion,” by Constantine Pappas “EEOC v. Tesla, Inc.: Is GenAI Moving into Mainstream Legal Disclosure?” “Sedona Principle 6 and the Duty to Evaluate” American Bar Association American Bar Association Litigation Section

In a timely episode, host Jim Reeder is joined by attorney, experienced poll worker, and current president of the ABA Michelle Behnke to discuss the American election system and the role of lawyers in that system. It might seem we’re a long way from the notorious practice of voting from the cemetery, but are we? (Spoiler: we are).  It seems like many Americans are becoming more skeptical about our current election system. And, as Behnke says, whenever there are humans in a process, there’s always a chance for error. But today’s technology and redundancies have made voting more secure than ever, even if allegations of cheating creep into the news cycle. Not only is she a business attorney, but Behnke has served as a poll worker and watched the system work as designed.  Hear about Behnke’s personal experience and how it built her confidence in the registration and voting process.  So where do lawyers fit in? And how can you get involved and inspire confidence? Get out there as a poll watcher or even an election official. The system needs you. As Behnke bites, “As lawyers, we are made for serving in that role.”  Also in this episode, quick tips from Lauren Williams as she discusses centering yourself. Have a question, comment, or suggestion for an upcoming episode? Get in touch at [email protected] or [email protected].  Resources Mentioned:  “Become a Poll Worker,” United States Election Assistance Commission American Bar Association American Bar Association Litigation Section

In this episode, learn about the intersection of animal protection and cruelty, domestic violence, and family law with two leaders in the field. Guests Maricarmen Garza is chief counsel for the American Bar Association Commission on Domestic & Sexual Violence and Megan Senatori is the executive director of the Center for Animal Law Studies at the Lewis & Clark Law School. The field of animal law is emerging as states, courts, and lawyers recognize how animal law and animal abuse plays into domestic violence and family law. Progress is being made, but this critical field isn’t fully recognized or understood. In many cases, victims of domestic violence are forced into difficult situations, caught between their own safety and the safety of beloved animal family members. The American Bar Association recently recognized the issue through both its Animal Law Committee and the Commission on Domestic & Sexual Violence. ABA’s recently approved Resolution 504 calls for laws and judicial processes that protect domestic violence survivors and their pets through civil protection orders, domestic relations proceedings, and expanded access to safe housing. Litigators play a vital role in developing this area of law. Hear what you can do and where you can find legal guidance when protecting victims of domestic violence and their pets, from dogs and cats to horses and others. Have a question, comment, or suggestion for an upcoming episode? Get in touch at [email protected] or [email protected]. Resources Mentioned:Five Ways Attorneys Can Support Domestic Violence Clients with Pets Sheltering Animals of Abuse Victims – Start Up Guide ABA Tort Trial & Insurance Practice Section Animal Law Committee ABA Resolution 504 “ABA House Adopts Policy to Protect Domestic Violence Survivors and Their Pets” American Bar Association Commission on Domestic & Sexual Violence American Bar Association Animal Law Committee American Bar Association American Bar Association Litigation Section

Every once in a while, it’s nice to examine the smaller issues affecting our lives as litigators that might not merit a full episode on their own but are important just the same. Hosts Jim Reeder and Mic Rogson dig into the everyday issues that affect us, even if we don’t notice them at first. Call it a “Mic and Jim Miscellany.”   First up: Does being a litigator affect how you handle your own everyday issues? Probably—it’s who we are and how we see the world. But it can be hard to recognize our own behaviors and how our training and careers affect us. Sometimes, an everyday interaction doesn’t call for a full-blown argument, just a pleasant interaction or conversation. When is it time to put on your war face, and when is it time to extend a hand, listen, and just … talk? And then there’s that moment when a friend or family member, in a casual conversation, starts bringing up some legal issue and starts asking for advice. Legal advice. It’s hard to say no, but sometimes, that’s the answer.  And what is it they say about the lawyers who represent themselves? But sometimes, you do it anyway, and sometimes you learn something from the experience. And sometimes, it’s just exhausting. Where’s the line? Have a question, comment, or suggestion for an upcoming episode? Get in touch at [email protected] or [email protected].   Resources Mentioned:  American Bar Association American Bar Association Litigation Section

Though asylum and deportation cases get the headlines, the field of immigration law is complex and broad, and includes an impact on families, employment, and businesses. Policies can shift and vary, and attorneys litigating immigration cases are constantly challenged to keep up with the latest changes. And while these attorneys stay current with the laws, often the earliest immigration hearings are held before a non-lawyer, saddling attorneys with an extra emphasis on clear communication. William Menard is a longtime immigration attorney and a managing partner at Root Law Group, a California-based firm specializing in immigration law. He’s also the host of the podcast “The American Immigrant.” In this episode, you’ll hear how he is navigating new policies and working to serve clients. Plus, a quick tip from corporate attorney Lauren Williams on “keeping your poker face” in court. “Your face is an important part of your advocacy because everyone is watching it … Stay composed.” Have a question, comment, or suggestion for an upcoming episode? Get in touch at [email protected] or [email protected]. Resources: Immigration and Nationality Act American Bar Association American Bar Association Litigation Section

Dawn Post is a litigator, counselor, mediator, and trainer who has spent her life in an area of the law she found largely overlooked: the legal rights and vital protections of children. Her career spans from adoption to parental and grandparental rights to sibling visitation and the darkest corners of child abuse, child trafficking, and the evolving “troubled teen” industry, issues she’s been combatting both in the U.S. and internationally, including the investigation of a troubled teen program in Jamaica that proved to be egregious and abusive, and without oversight or legal examination. Now based in New York City, Dawn is an author and speaker with a single focus on the rights and best interests of children. She says flaws and oversights in the systems designed for child protection are rife, and she’s worked to network like-minded lawyers and organizations to improve systems and develop a child-centric environment. When it comes to children and teens, especially adopted children, who’s looking out for their rights? What happens when adoption and foster services operate without proper guardrails and oversight? Who is looking at a situation from a child’s point of view? This is where attorneys can make a difference. If you’ve thought about putting your litigation skills to work protecting those who need a voice, this episode may inspire you. Have a question, comment, or suggestion for an upcoming episode? Get in touch at [email protected] and [email protected].  Resources: Children's Rights Litigation Committee American Bar Association Litigation Section ABA Commission on Sexual Orientation and Gender Identity (SOGI) American Bar Association

Round Table Group is a Premier Sponsor of the ABA Litigation Section. The selection of the Round Table Group as the subject of this interview should not be construed as an endorsement by the American Bar Association of the Round Table Group and its services. ----- It seems like every trial today needs an expert. And the experts you choose to learn from and present can make or break your case. So, hear it from the pros. In this episode guests (and experts on experts) Deena Pack and Seth Row share practical tips for successfully hiring and managing an expert for your case. Experts can be some of the most expensive elements of a case. You can’t afford to make a mistake. When it comes to hiring an expert, the rule of thumb is “the earlier the better.” You may not even know if you have a case until you have an expert review of the evidence. But where do you find an expert? One who is not only current and knowledgeable, but also relatable to a judge and jury? Sometimes, even the perception as an “outsider” or a “local” expert matters. How do you make the right choice, vet prior testimony, and review qualifications? And don’t forget the limits of your client’s budget. Plus, a quick tip from Lauren Williams on how to polish your professional reputation by building rapport with courtroom staff. Have a question, comment, or suggestion for an upcoming episode? Get in touch at [email protected] and [email protected].  Resources: American Bar Association American Bar Association Litigation Section

The process of “case budgeting” is increasingly common in complex litigation, it’s the science and art of laying out the potential time and cost of trying a case. Daniel Dowd is the managing partner and the president of the Phoenix law firm Cohen Dowd Quigley. He explains how to estimate: “How much will this cost to get to the finish line?”  But how do you do it? How do you react when a client brings up costs? Dowd details the labor-intensive process of understanding each aspect of the case and calculating costs, including discovery, expert witnesses, the potential for a mediated settlement, and even the nature of the court and opposing law firm. There are many variables, and as the timeline stretches out, projections can become less accurate. But if a client asks, a “best estimate” can help them understand the true cost of a case. “You build a skeleton … and then you have to estimate with your team how much time they’re going to spend,” Dowd explains. “Then you get your calculator out.”  Plus, a quick tip from attorney and co-chair of the ABA Mental Health & Wellness committee Maritza Rodriguez of the firm Rodriguez Family Law as she discusses “the great commitment reset.” Get a fresh start on a new year by making fewer commitments, auditing your life, and cutting back on self-scheduling. Have a question, comment, or suggestion for an upcoming episode? Get in touch at [email protected] and [email protected].  Resources: 2026 Women in Litigation CLE Conference American Bar Association American Bar Association Litigation Section