Adventures in Luxury Travel

Mimi Lichtenstein 0:01
If you're a traveler that believes luxury and adventure are not mutually exclusive, then you're in the right place. Every week, I take you to a new destination with one of my partners, sharing the hidden gems over the top experiences and active adventures to inspire your next family vacation. I'm Mimi Lichtenstein, an experienced Travel Advisor who has also traveled with my three teenagers and my husband around the world. Let's get started. Welcome to Episode 32 of adventures in luxury travel. Just a reminder, you can see the photos we talked about on the show and a full video on true a travel.com. Today, Richard and I talk about hiking Africa's tallest peak Mount Kilimanjaro. It's a rigorous hike to 19,000 feet, requiring advanced preparation and working with the right local team to ensure your success and safety. We give you the real scoop on what it's like on the mountain. How much time is realistic for it to take and what it costs. We also share the difference between a normal trip and a VIP experience. Visit true a travel.com/ 32 for a video of today's show and additional resources. Today I'm here with Richard Beatty, and I am super excited to talk with him because we are going to talk all about hiking Mount Kilimanjaro. Richard, thank you for joining me.

Richard Beatty 1:24
It's a pleasure, it's great to always talk to people who want to hear about Kilimanjaro, you know some of the pitfalls and some of the great things you can do out there to make it a special trip.

Mimi Lichtenstein 1:34
Absolutely. And it's definitely not for everybody. But for those people who are very goal oriented love to have something that's you know, an athletic accomplishment. It's a great bucket list item. Tell us a little bit about I know a little bit about your background, but maybe give us a little synopsis for everyone about how you got to where you are doing these guides up Kilimanjaro.

Richard Beatty 1:54
Well, the short version, I'd say we've done the long version earlier on. But the short version is I landed up in Africa about just over 30 years ago, 1990 in Tanzania arrived in Tanzania, not really knowing very much about Africa, but having a background in both outdoor education and mountaineering. So Kilimanjaro was an obvious progression. And now here I am, whatever it is 31 years later, back in the same place, still, or still in the same place organizing climbs, I've actually got myself, what we've done is we've trained some fantastic trans named guys, but I'm gonna tell you more about that later.

Mimi Lichtenstein 2:28
I'm excited to hear about it. And I do want to also throw in that I know that you've worked, I think on at least three continents for Outward Bound, which, right, yes.

Richard Beatty 2:36
Started off in the UK worked for them there for a number of years. And then in the states of not so many mountains here I was down in Florida in the swamp. And then finally in Hong Kong, but from Hong Kong, we had a sail training ship that we used to sail across to Borneo and the Philippines and China and expeditions to Nepal and places like that. Okay,

Mimi Lichtenstein 2:56
so I think we're in good hands. Those of people who are like me who have teenagers and college kids are very familiar with Outward Bound, and I have several friends who did it also when they were teenagers, always great things to say. So

Richard Beatty 3:08
let's get going you can do with your kids send them on an outward bound course.

Mimi Lichtenstein 3:12
I agree with you. I had a daughter who not on Outward Bound another trip she was on this summer for a month in Guatemala. And it was an incredible experience. So I'm obviously a big fan of sending teenagers traveling around the world. Alright, let's get started. So Mount Kilimanjaro. You want to give us a little bit I love these pictures of you by the way.

Richard Beatty 3:33
You chose for the flyer?

Mimi Lichtenstein 3:36
Well, I look forward to one day sitting there having a cocktail martini or Margarita or something with you tell us a little bit about where it is. We're looking at a map of Tanzania right now. Where is it? And and how does that impact getting there and you know, hiking up to the top.

Richard Beatty 3:52
So it's in East Africa. So it's you know, a lot of people not quite sure where Tanzania is. It's the next one down from Kenya. It's probably the easiest way to remember it. Huge country, vast country, I guess by American standards, not that big, but by European standards, very big country. And then right up at the top corner. If you can see those of you are looking at the picture, you can see that little sort of Jinkx in the border. And the story goes that at the time when borders were being made in colonial Africa, Tanzania belong to Germany and Kenya belong to the UK. And Queen Victoria who was in charge of the UK at that time was the queen there. Her cousin, of course was the Kaiser and she decided to give Kilimanjaro to the Kaiser so the hence that little jinkin the border that put it in in what was in those those Germany's Africa obviously then First World War the country change hands became Tanzania protector of the UK and independence in 1916, but still kept hold of Kilimanjaro, which has been rather nice. So Kilimanjaro itself the tallest freestanding mountain in the world. Free Standing means that it's not part of a mountain range, because it's a row caner. And it's not even an extinct volcano. It's a dormant volcano. So when you're on the top, I'll show you a picture later of the hole in the top that you can still smell the sulfur fumes coming out. But the last eruption was was a long, long time ago. So I think we're all right, but it's quite close to the Rift Valley. So the Rift Valley runs, I know if you can circle those, you've got Lake Manyara. And another lake on there. Maybe you've got the point it just around. Now a little bit, a little, just a bit a little bit to the left of Kilimanjaro. Oh, much, much higher up around, there you go. So the Rift Valley runs through there. So we have got an active volcano over there, or Donyo Lengai, which sits in the Rift Valley. And then right next to Arusha itself, and I'm going to show you some pictures, this one a little bit later on, we've got another dormant volcano Mount mirror, but the tallest mountain in Africa, one of the Seven Summits. And that's often quite a big draw for people coming that they suddenly decided in life, they want a bit more challenge. And the Seven Summits is possibly one of the biggest challenges, physical challenges you can take on the Seven Summits being the tallest mountain and each of the seven continents. And Kilimanjaro is pretty much the entry mountain because it's one of the easiest ones. I mean, the one in Antarctica is actually very easy to go up. But it's very hard to get to. So Kilimanjaro is much more accessible. And remember it's wholly in Tanzania, not in Kenya at all as Kenyans would have you believe. But nine, yeah. And you can see they're just that's just the zooming of the map. We're going to be talking about some of those places. You can see they're sort of in the middle at the bottom Kilimanjaro International Airport. That's the one that most people flying out of this flights in their KLM flies in and they're Ethiopian Qatar, people like that. So Turkish well, they all did what before Before COVID, but I'm sure they'll come back at some stage. And then you've got the two two towns there Russia and marshy kind of equidistant between the two the airport. I actually live in Arusha town and have done for all this time. So we've got Mount Meru you can see there just to the north of the town for 4566 meters, sort of looms over the town. And then in the sort of top right hand corner there, you've got Kilimanjaro itself, the green part is the national parks. So you can see both of those peaks are inside national parks.

Mimi Lichtenstein 7:13
Yeah. Well, it clearly covers a very large area. And so amazing that you have these mountains in your backyard living in New Hampshire, we have a lot of mountains, but none quite this large. All right. So tell us, you know, if you want to hike Mount Kilimanjaro, let's kind of go through what you need to know to be properly prepared and properly planned. The Shira plateau I know is a big deal. And we're going to talk a little bit about the different number of nights or days you can take to get up there, you want to just get us started on

Richard Beatty 7:43
this picture here is actually taken from this year of plateau. And then you can see that the bit of the mountain there, which is the one you've probably all seen in pictures before. And so that that bit is the result of the most recent eruption. I mean, still millions of years ago, but the most recent, and that sort of massive there has called Kibo the Shira plateau where this picture has been taken from is actually were stood on the rim of the old volcano, the one that there was a huge eruption with disappeared. And the old volcano based on where the rim is, they think must have been about five times as high as Kibo that you can see there so real super mountain, but anyway blasted out. Left this Shira plateau, you've got a little bit of a rim around the edge, but mainly sort of undulating flat bit. And it's just such a beautiful place so rarely traveled. It's a World Heritage Site. There's lots of unique flora and fauna up there. We'll find tracks of Buffalo, possibly some sort of lions, maybe leopards, things like that a bit more unusual, but absolute beautiful wilderness with hardly anybody in it.

Mimi Lichtenstein 8:45
Well, it's it's stunning. And I imagine it's very different in the different seasons of the year. Do you happen to know when would this one have been taken?

Richard Beatty 8:54
This one, I think would have been just looking at the amount of snow and you can see that there's not much snow on keyboard there. And what there is isn't actually snow. That's the remnants of the glaciers. The glaciers, even in my time in Africa have shrunk massively. And so that's the bit you can see kind of looks like the top, it's actually not the top but the two white bits, there are the remnants of the Northern ice fields. And then the top is actually over to the right hand side, that kind of bit that sticks up. And then that's it. So the summit's actually up there. And then that ice flow running down the side there is another one of the glaciers that sort of hanging southern places that finishing a cliff, but there used to be a lot more and it's going fast and unfortunately it's one of those things that is going to accelerate more and more as it goes this the sand that is around them is black, so it absorbs the heat really well. So you end up with a little black bit of black sand showing it gets warmer and melts everything around it. Yeah, okay,

Mimi Lichtenstein 9:53
so but when should we come and hike Mount Kilimanjaro? We don't want to come when it's freezing and we don't want to come when it's you know, way too hot. So Are the sweet spots?

Richard Beatty 10:01
Well, you might have chosen the wrong mountain if you don't want to come when it's freezing is always cold up there. But it's more a case of when not to come. As I've said here, we have rainy seasons in Tanzania climate is that we have what we call the short rains, which are usually in late November, early December. But they're there, I wouldn't worry about them too much. But the long rains are the ones that are sort of set in for a couple of months. And they're in April and May. And that's when we tend to get more of the sort of the overcast skies and things like that, and a bit Denver. So I would say if you're planning a trip, then avoid that time of year. And the rest of the year is pretty open. It obviously gets busier during traditional holiday tunes seasons, so Christmas, August, can get busier. But we'll still find somewhere pretty remote and unique for you.

Mimi Lichtenstein 10:46
Okay, well, the good thing is you're not staying in hotels. So the hotels aren't going to sell out for you. But we'll get to that in a few weeks. climatization. So you you're going to shoot

Richard Beatty 10:57
that said, you know, and everybody says, you know, what's the what's the most important thing on Kilimanjaro, how fit do I need to be and so on. And it all comes back to this acclimatization. And it's just getting your body, as you obviously go higher and higher and altitude, there's less and less oxygen in the air. So your body needs to adapt itself to be able to absorb more oxygen. And what it does is produce more red blood cells to be able to carry more oxygen of that scarce oxygen around your body. And your body can adapt to about 1500 foot of altitude gain per day, it varies a little bit between individuals, but that's a good average. So if you go up any faster than that, you're just trying to trick your body and you're trying to get to the top faster than you should be it it doesn't work for most people. And it can be very dangerous as well. You run run the risk of having something quite serious either happened to your lungs or to your brain as you get fluid on it. So I would say whenever whatever you're thinking about whenever you're thinking of coming, then think about a climatization and spend as long as you possibly can on the mountain to allow your body to adjust.

Mimi Lichtenstein 11:57
Do most of your travelers that you guys take up prepare themselves by hiking a lot of you know, steeper hikes at home before they come.

Richard Beatty 12:05
Yeah, I mean, it depends where everybody is. Everybody says so what's the best way we can train to climb Kilimanjaro? And the answer that is go out and climb mountains, because it's not something everybody can do. So it's just you know, anywhere that you can get a small rucksack on nothing too heavy five or 10 kilos in the back, and then just walk up hills. But don't forget as well to walk down hills. Everybody trains we're going up but nobody trains we're going down. And you have to come just to find out because you have to go up and a different set of muscles. So you'll see people on the way down really struggling with those quads and their knees.

Mimi Lichtenstein 12:40
I've done some big hikes before and I know the difference and it does make a difference. So it's good to focus on that. Okay, the roots. When you were talking the other day, we talked about the range of people who might want to go for four days, they say, Oh, I only have four days I want to hike Mount Kilimanjaro, can I do it? Your answer would likely be No. Tell us about the difference. Yeah.

Richard Beatty 13:00
So you see, I put the routes in there. And we've got the first four routes, which are four and five night routes. Basically, if you've only got four nights, pick another mountain, find a smaller one. You just you're just not going to enjoy yourself, you've got a slim chance of getting to the top because of the altitude a climatization. Again, doesn't matter how fit, you are constrained you down. And the best example I can think of that is sea sickness. You know what no matter how how fit you are, you go on a boat and you're susceptible to seasickness, you're going to be seasick, and you're going to feel awful. And altitude sickness is rather like that you just feel awful. You know seasickness, car sickness, any of those things, that sort of feeling? So wait. So we actually don't offer any of those routes. We think they're too short. And we think they're unsafe to go out that fast. So the shortest route that we'll offer is that Machame route six nights, that's the one in purple kind of in the middle at the bottom there. Okay, yeah, it's if you've only got six nights, and you really want to climb the mountain, then that's obviously the one to go for. It does tend to be busier, because it is the sort of the most accessible of the slightly longer routes so it can get quite busy. So I'd say if you aren't going to go for that one, there may be to avoid that Christmas and August, when it can get quite hectic up there. The one that we probably take more people up there than any other clients is this sheer route the one in yellow there, we can do that either as a six sorry, as a seven or an eight, nine, the extra night we would do as a climatization quite high up, you would stay in the same camp for two nights. But you would hike a little bit higher to allow your body again to acclimatized and then come back to the same. But that's one of the wilderness routes. And that's the thing I think that we always try to find is to get you away from the crowd. So that gives you that that more so unique experience rather than just being in a long, long crocodile like going to school, you know, a long crocodile of people heading up the mountain. You've all seen pictures of the top of Everest and people queuing, right. There's parts of Kilimanjaro on that Machame route, in particular as a couple of bottlenecks where it can be little bit like that you're still in line waiting for your turn. That's not the kind of experience we're trying to offer

Mimi Lichtenstein 15:05
people. No. And I think for most people, you know, if you go on if you go to climb Everest, and you've never seen those pictures of, you know, the long trail of people one behind the other, it's really not what you're thinking about, you're gonna see when you get to Everest,

Richard Beatty 15:18
no, you always think that you're going to be I mean, a lot of the time, you're just looking at that picture of one person stood on the top, and you think it's just going to be me fighting against the mountain. And then some of those pictures, particularly in recent years, I think it's got more publicity, those long lives of 100 or more people queuing to get up the Hillary step and things.

Mimi Lichtenstein 15:37
And when you and I were talking last week, I think you told me at one of the camps on the shorter routes, there could be 1000 people,

Richard Beatty 15:44
more could be young on one lovely August evening, you know, when all that is is kind of before COVID. Of course, don't forget, it's not just the climbers, you know, we've got all the porters up there as well who are carrying the camp up and down for them. So all those guys camped, and you just end up with this massive, sprawling sort of tent city there on on these more popular routes. And that's why I say this sheer route, if you're unlucky, there might be one or two other groups on there. But even then you won't really see them during the day and the campsites are big so we can spread people out.

Mimi Lichtenstein 16:15
Okay, good to know. And so for the when you were just talking about the days and the nights that's specific to the climbing, but then I know you also recommend spending a couple nights to acclimatized on the way up at a camp, right?

Richard Beatty 16:26
We do we do. So this is this picture here, you can see which for those of you who haven't pictures, it's a small cap with a mountain behind it. The mountain behind it is is Mount Meru, that one that just sort of looms over the town where I live Arusha. And you can see this one had a catastrophic explosion again, so that that whole bit where the trees are just blasted out and left this huge crater just over half a million years ago, but then has been sort of vegetated ever since. And now we have this tremendous, lush forest, growing all over the place. We have a camp up there, the camps about six and a half, 1000 feet, and it's a great place to relax. It's a great place to acclimatized, your body is already starting to produce those red blood cells to be more ready for your Kilimanjaro climb. And we would normally do two nights there. So straight straight off the plane up to camp. It's a very comfortable camp, you can see they're large tents, and we're all with ensuite toilets, and showers and all that sort of thing. And there's some wonderful walks up through the mountain,

Mimi Lichtenstein 17:23
and so forth. So you're telling me that this isn't what my camp would look like, a couple days later, I take it,

Richard Beatty 17:28
no completely different. I'm gonna show you some pictures, you will camp the tents kind of shrink slightly wash them. Okay, this is just to show you a little bit of what it looks like up there on the Shira plateau. And it's this, it's low enough, that is what's called the giant heap, and then this open more land. And then just in the clouds in this picture, that's actually KeyVault, the summit that you can see hidden, so it's quite a trek across the plateau. But remember, that's a good thing. Because we want to ascend slowly, we want to do that 1500 feet of gain each day. So we need to pace ourselves to get to the top.

Mimi Lichtenstein 18:04
And I like what these people are wearing T shirts. Yeah,

Richard Beatty 18:07
it's not too bad down there, it's kind of warm. And in that camp, that's probably the first camp that you'll freeze a little bit at night, when you're on the edge of the plateau. time you get up to the cap that these guys are walking towards, then it's definitely going to be colder. And you're going to have more layers

Mimi Lichtenstein 18:24
on. And I'm going to jump ahead real quick, how cold does it get at the top

Richard Beatty 18:28
it gets I mean, in Fahrenheit, I'm not sure in centigrade, which is what we use. You know, it probably gets down to minus four minus five, but then you've got to add the wind chiller on top of that if there's any wind at all. So it can be an apparent of sort of minus 10 or more. Okay,

Mimi Lichtenstein 18:47
but look at the beauty of the night sky and being out there as gorgeous.

Richard Beatty 18:52
So these are the tents as you can see smaller, these are the tents that we use. And it's always a balance between trying to give people enough room that you're not sort of squashed in like sardines. But also, the bigger the tent you have the colder it is that your body isn't able to warm it up at all. And they also need to be stormproof and that we sometimes get some bad weather up there and the snow comes in. So these tensor mountain hardware attempts they've been tested and proved all over the world and are incredibly strong will stand up to anything in the weather can throw at them. But it was more as well about the fact that at this campsite here this is Eric glazier campsite. I think there's just nobody else to have is just you looking out across that vast expanse out below you with the stars above you and the stars when you get that high in the mountains just cannot believe I mean you think you've been to Joshua Tree or wherever and you've seen stars but once you get up higher and you're, you know that much higher in the atmosphere, there's less dust, there's less junk hanging around. The stars just become so bright and so incredible.

Mimi Lichtenstein 19:55
Beautiful, and I imagine it's just quiet and peaceful. And, you know, a great I mean, for me, I plan a lot of family travels. And if you have older teenagers, college kids, what an amazing experience to go and climb this mountain together.

Richard Beatty 20:11
No, it's a fantastic other one with a bunch of friends or with, as you say, family trips, or what you know, and having that sort of common purpose and challenge is such a great, great bonding experience as well. So this point I popped on, because I think this is what we think is the perfect way to climb Kilimanjaro. So before this week, we think the two nights in that camp in Arusha national park or the one at six and a half 1000 feet would be a great way to get off the plane, get some a climatization. And but also, you're kind of it's exclusive, use all these camps for exclusive use. There's nobody else there with you. If your time to kind of focus, get over the flight that jetlag, whatever it is, and really focus on the challenge ahead and get together. So this climb is, you know, one of the problems of Kilimanjaro is none of the roots have real sort of official names, because you can do it so many ways. So I've said the start in Lemosho glades, which is in the forest, still not up on the mountain yet. And then you're going to ascend across the Euro plateau, that world heritage site we talked about, and then up the Western reach up onto the top, so day one, half day, so drop you off, just before lunch, I guess we have to go to the gate and sign in it's National Park, and they need to register all your names and things for safety. And then we'll bring you around to the trailhead and hike up, we'll stop and we'll have lunch on the way. And lunch on the way is a bit of an event. You know, it's not just a sandwich that you picked up at the convenience store on your way there. We'll set up tables and chairs. If the weather's nice, if it's not we'll put a tent up or something to keep you out of the weather. And we'll we'll put a great spread out there. Because remember, the whole thing's meant to be fun. You know, a lot of people sort of picture it as this trudging up this massive hill. But you know, this is your holiday, you meant to be enjoying yourself. So there's always time to sit to talk to the people who are on the mountain with you. So then carry on for the afternoon to your first camp in the forest. So it's not going to be cold, it's not going to freeze that night, sort of a gentle introduction, it'd be a great orientation from the leader who will show you what you need to know about the camp how it all works. The next day, day two is actually a bit of a long one in terms of distance, you cover still the same altitude gain, but a little bit further along. And you'll weave your way up some of those valleys on the slopes of the outside slopes of the Shira plateau until just before you get to campus, you pop over that ridge. And that's probably when you're going to get your first view close up of Kibo and the summit and you'll know what you're aiming for. So kept there that night, next day, that picture we saw earlier of people walking across the plateau. And then one of the bigger drainage is on that side of the mountain on the western side of the mountain of this huge valley. And then you're actually going to camp again at the top of the valley by the ruins of an old mountain. Next Next day bit of a shorter day, we're climbing up over past something called the shark's tooth, which always sounds wonderful. But it really is just one of the these sort of remnants like this that looks just like a shark's tooth. And these are all subsidiary cones that have been eroded away. And so you're gonna cap that night at a place called Lava Tower, which has have another lava plug right next to it. If you get there early enough, you've got the energy, it's quite a fun time to get up to the top and look out from the top couple 100 feet high. Next day really short back and it probably only going to take you a couple of hours, but it's quite steep. So again, we're still looking for that similar altitude gang, we don't want to go any further even though we could we've got time in the day. And we're actually going to stop there. So an early day, so probably a little bit later start earlier finish and then in the afternoon rest and prepare. Because the next day we've got quite challenged heading up the Western breach. And so there's only really three ways to get up onto the onto the top bit of killing. This is one of them the Western breach, and the other one is around the other side, that Machame route goes up one from a chemical burapha which translates into ice is from Swahili. And then the other one is from Moringa on the Kibo side. So that's just that the short that short route that we're talking about the for night one, the Western bridge gets mixed reviews. There was a rockfall there in 2006 that killed some climates. The route was closed for a while. But since then we and a bunch of other tour operators and national parks went up there and we realigned the route completely. So now Texas is much safer route in the LI of a large lava flow. So those rocks that come down, remember the rocks are coming down and every route. They just happen to kill somebody on that route. But all the other routes are rocks coming down as well. But the nice thing about that Western bridge route is it pops you out into that summit crater. And then if you've got the energy and I hope you do, then it's wonderful to go and explore the crater. You can hike over to the ash pit in the middle, which is that hole we were talking about the top with the faint smell of sulfur still coming out, you know and just explore around that there's the Furtwangler Glacia. And that picture is actually one of the remnants they almost look like sort of old galleons stranded On the, on the top there, these huge bits of ice just gradually and melting away to nothing

at all, and the last one, so then a camp up there as well, which is a fantastic night to camp so high, it's not going to be sleeping in a feather bed and you're not going to get a straight hours, eight hours asleep, you're up very high, your body is adjusting. It's cold up there, but boys and a memorable night. And that's what we're about. We're about trying to create those memories. And it's just the experience of camping up there right next to a glazier looking out and it feels you can walk to the edge and look out and it feels like you're looking out over the whole of Africa really is an incredible feeling.

Mimi Lichtenstein 25:39
That sounds amazing. My understanding is to that with the different links of trips, some of them make it so that you are not able to summit early in the morning and others of those do the longer ones do. Could you tell us a little bit about the difference between the two.

Richard Beatty 25:56
So this route that I'm talking about now then we've got on day seven, the summit day. And so from that chi camp in the crater, it's only a few 100 feet up to the summit. So normally wake up in the daylight, it takes you a lot longer to get ready at that stage. So fiddle about getting your boots and your clothes on, have something to eat, and then just a short hike up to the summit and feel reasonably fresh up there. And able to sort of enjoy that feeling of euphoria reached the top. All the other routes, you start from much much lower down. And you have a huge slog overnight, so I'm usually starting depending on the speed of your group. So starting between midnight and two o'clock in the morning, you've got your head torch on shining a little beam in front of you. And that becomes your world for the next six to seven hours. trudging up hill and these these huge scree slopes to get to the top. And the aim for all these groups is to get some topic, Dawn and then turn around and head back down again. But a lot of them arrived much later than that but absolutely exhausted, you're not really able to comprehend what they've got.

Mimi Lichtenstein 26:59
So I think that that is an important point to note. First of all waking up teenagers or college kids at 2am to go for a slog hike up to six, seven hours at this altitude would not be a pleasant experience. They might just say no, just coming at me on the way down. That is great. I love the overview. And it's it's great to know and obviously people will know more details before they go, what each day is going to be like, you know, this is an easy day. This is a steep day. This is a long day. This is a short day. So that's the value of having your expertise. I'm curious actually to know how many times has your team summited up Kilimanjaro, approximately

Richard Beatty 27:37
that company? Oh my goodness, hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of times we have we have groups going up and down like yours. So plenty of times plenty of experience.

Mimi Lichtenstein 27:46
Okay, well good to know. And I think you and I touched on before. And we'll talk a little bit about all the different things roll out relative to the outfitter that you choose. One of them is your guide. And I loved hearing that all of your guides are from Tanzania.

Richard Beatty 28:02
That's right when we started running trips up Kelemen Kilimanjaro so 30 plus years ago, we had a lot of Western guys that we would fly in for a client or two or three clients. Just because there wasn't really the sort of that international there were always people who can lead you up there. But they didn't really have the depth of experience than a sort of world class mountaineer. With him. We've invested a lot of time and energy and money and leaders over the last 30 years. And we now have some absolutely incredible guys who will, you know, many of them are guys have traveled abroad, and led trips and other countries. So they don't just know this mountain, but they really understand mountaineering. And I think that's one of the important things that you've got someone who's got that depth of experience. So if you pop it onto the next slide, there's a few things there that that's you know, some of the questions you should be asking your outfitter is, you know the guy who is going to be the main person who's going to be leading your group update, and it's how long has he been guiding on the mountain? How long has he been on the mountain and all our guides will have started much lower down the pecking order as porters themselves or perhaps coming in at a much, much lower level and then work their way up so that even if they've only had sort of 10 or 15 cents as a guide that they've had another 20 or 30 or 40 cents as some other position. So a number of senses is a key one as well. And again looking at the route that you're planning to choose up on the mountain asked how many times your guide has been up that particular route in that you know might have been that that short four day route has been up and down that like a yo yo but has actually never been to the wilderness side of the mountain that we're talking about here. Then we come on to something called W F R which stands for wilderness first responder and wellness first responder is first aid certification. It's fast becoming the world standard first aid certification and involves a 10 day two week intensive course sent touches on on a lot more detail than you would get in a normal first aid course. Because what it's designed for is that somebody who's going to help save your life, not just for the 15 minutes till the ambulance arrived, but possibly for two or three days while you're evacuated off the mountain. So it looks a lot more in depth rather than just stop the blood and call 911 or 999, depending on what country you're in. So that's the thing that their certification is valid for two years. And then after that, they have to recertify. So again, a question to ask would be, how many times are they recertified? So Are they someone who's just got the qualification, or the someone who's had it for a number of years and had to re study and study again, and do the reset of case and the recertification is also a four day course. Then the other one would be the spine, if they've climbed elsewhere, apart from Kilimanjaro, you know, it's very much temptation to have a guide that's only climbed on Kilimanjaro, who only knows that narrow trail up and down the mountain doesn't isn't really aware of the bigger picture, perhaps, about the things that can go wrong. And, you know, it's like all these people, it's all very well, it's like an airline pilot, you No wonder they get paid all that money, they get paid all that money to sit around doing nothing, because plane pretty much flies itself. But they get paid all that money for when things go wrong. And that's the same with your guide, you want a guide who can, you know, is a nice guy when things go well, but you want a guide who can really sought you out and help you out when things start to go wrong. Along the mountains, things do go wrong, things change from time to time, whether that's the weather or, or the altitude, so much so many other factors. And then the last one I've listed there, which is one of the requirements that that our guides have to meet before guides have to meet before they become a guide for us is that they have to travel outside Tanzania, you know that they, they're not only your guide up the up and down the mountain, but they're also your traveling companion, you know, they're going to be sat eating every meal with you for the next eight to 10 days, you want someone who who you can have a conversation with who when you talk about, you know, the fact that I 95 came to a standstill because of the crash and you were stuck there for six hours, they can kind of comprehend what you're talking about that they've been to some of the big cities in the West, where the so our guys have to have been either to Europe or North America, just to experience the wider world really. And we think that gives them a really good insight into into your life, and helps him to be a better guide as well.

Mimi Lichtenstein 32:26
I love that. Well, clearly, there's a lot of thought and intention and investment on your part in your guides and in your porters and in your people that make a huge difference in the quality of somebody's experience when they're up there. So that's important. And you've touched on safety. But you know, there's a lot of things that people like me don't even think about that we pay people like you to think about for us Do you want to tell us a little bit?

Richard Beatty 32:50
Well, these are again, just some of the things that you should be asking about, you talked about the guy and I got there a ratio, a minimum of one guy to three clients. And that guide, you know, you want to really push whoever you're working with. To find out more about those guides, the certification to be a guide, a certified guide or licensed guide on Kilimanjaro, the bar is pretty low. And so you want to be having somebody who is much more skilled than that. And again, each of these people, each of these guides that you're working out should have a current WF RS difficut. And the reason that you need all those guys is that you know, one person gets sick on the mountain and they have to be evacuated. Well, maybe your main guy is going to have to go down with that casualty because that's the most serious issue at the moment. And so suddenly, you're left up on the mountain there with with number two or number three guide and you want to make sure that they're they're equally as qualified to carry you on often to take care of your safety. I've gone over the head guide again recertified a minimum of two times on their Wi Fi, that just means that they've got a bit more experience under their belt that that this knowledge, this first aid knowledge really has been drummed into them, the team should carry with them. This is the team on the mountain at Camelback and oxygen. So the bottom left picture there you can see oxygen and so that's not really you know, on Everest, again, you see people with their oxygen bottles and they've got their their thing on them up their nose or over their mouth to help them get to the top. We don't use that on Kilimanjaro, the oxygen isn't to help you go any higher. The oxygen is to help you if you get sick, you know and that altitude sickness if you've ascended to France, or just you know sometimes some people get it, you know one and 101 and 200 people was weren't acclimatized as well as others, that oxygen is there to give you that extra boost to help you get down. Again more bags is a bit of a funny one. So that top right picture that red sausage there and the best way to kind of describe it is if you imagine an inflatable boat and you took off one of the sides of the inflatable boat, you chopped it off, and then you closed off that open end and now you have a sort of a rubber tube if you like it's got a zip on it. And what happens is somebody suffering from altitude sickness again, you tuck them inside, you close the zip up, and then you have a foot pump. And you pump it, pump it, pump it, pump it until the whole of the inside is pressurized, again, like that inflatable boat. And by doing that, that you artificially lower the altitude inside, because you're increasing the concentration of oxygen in the air. So it allows whoever's in there to breathe much more easily. You can see there, they're sort of pretending to carry someone I mean, in theory, you can carry someone in one of these. But if we're honest, it's incredibly cumbersome to try and carry someone and they end up slipping and sliding around inside. So what we tend to do is to pop somebody in there, pump them up with the foot pump, and you have somebody constantly pumping to to bring fresh air in all the time. And I believe valve that it goes back out. So you're getting lots of oxygen. And then you would stay in there for 1234 hours until you start to feel better. And then they will take you out of there and a couple of people would support you and go down, you start feeling bad, you just stop them pop back in again. There's no rush at that stage.

Mimi Lichtenstein 36:04
Well, I never. But I'm glad to know about them, obviously. I mean, it reminds me a little bit of the look of someone being carried off a mountain for example, like on the back of a snowmobile. But there are no snowmobiles up there to carry you down the mountain. So

Richard Beatty 36:21
they do have the national parks as in a couple of places stretches a little bit lower down the mountain. And they're quite fun. They have one big sort of motorbike wheel in the middle and lots of shock absorbers for people sort of balancing it, but some of the weights taken by the wheel so they don't actually have to carry all the way. Got it. And then the next thing I've got on there, I've got satellite firm, and walkie talkies, the satellite phone, obviously, you know, it's there for emergencies to to get a message out. We used to carry HF radios big cumbersome things. And it's tough to have two guys holding an antenna up and communicate to the base. But now we have satellite phones much easier, much more compact and much more reliable. And then walkie talkies within the group in that, you know, people don't always walk at the same and it's a little bit constricting if you're someone who likes to stride out but your your partner or your kids want to dawdle a little bit and stuff and sort of smell the roses were. And it's important that the group can communicate from the back to the front, because you know, you've had you've had one of the guys and the fastball can head on up to camp or to lunch. And then suddenly, there's a problem at the back of the group that they need to be able to call them back to help. And then the last one I've written written there is that it's all very good this training to do it in a nice warm classroom, down down at the bottom of the mountain. But you should also question whoever you're out for it is, outfitter is as to when they last went on the mountain, did multi day training. So I mean, some of these pictures you can see here are some of our guides up on the mountain. And we'll head up there every year, and do sort of several days up there with different scenarios. Suddenly, there'll be someone who's assimilating the symptoms of altitude sickness, or we'll have someone that's got suddenly rocks toppled over and crushed their foot or somebody's got hypothermia. And actually make the guys realize how hard it is you know that you're trying to bandage someone's leg, but your fingers are so cold, they won't work, things like that in sort of real world, real world training. Okay,

Mimi Lichtenstein 38:23
another obviously big investment. We're gonna keep us moving to make sure that we touch on all of the slides that we want our topic. So we want to talk about I know, a big thing for some people is what will my camp be like? This one on the bottom left looks a little different. I prefer the one on the top right, once covered in snow, and the other has a beautiful meadow with a blue sky.

Richard Beatty 38:45
Well, you know, I pop that white bottom left one in just to sort of show you that there is a temptation that that some some Outfitters, we're trying to offer you huge temps that you can walk into and beds and things like that. And, and our feeling is that that's not the right way to go. Because those tents just won't survive some of the storms up there. And that you're far better to be in a smaller, more robust tent. So as I say, we're putting you in these mountain hardware tents, private toilets, it's it's something everybody wonders, but nobody likes to ask about and I don't know if you can see on that. That top right picture there's kind of the right hand edge of it. That's it, right. Yeah, that's it the throne room. So one of the one of the portraits one of the many porters is going to be carrying up a toilet and we use the sort of the style flush toilet up on the mountain. So his job is to carry it up there and sort of set it up for you but also to keep sort of servicing it and make sure it stays clean. And one of the challenges as you go higher up obviously is that the water in the flush tank starts to freeze so he is popping popping some warm water in that we don't want to use any antifreeze or anything like that because it's bad for the environment up there. He keeps popping warm water in. So that's an important thing that National Parks does have toilets in the campsite, but Quite frankly, they're, they're not somewhere you want to go at all.

Mimi Lichtenstein 40:03
Okay, and I hope you pay that porter a lot of money. If you

Richard Beatty 40:06
know that that Porter is a really interesting one because that that role that toilet Porter, we actually call them toilet porters is the first rung on the ladder of promotion. There's lots of there's lots of normal porters, but anyone who see that little spark in their eye, and you think, you know, this guy might go all the way then that's the first test is they become a toilet Porter, they get paid a bit more money, and they have a bit more responsibility. And that's probably the first time that they come into a more direct contact with the clients, as well. A lot of the other guys are sort of carrying the kitchen tend to carry the gas bottles or whatever and don't really see people and so they'll they'll move up into that and hopefully onwards and upwards out of that role as well. Okay, next next one, I've got there as a mess, Tim, you know, you just need to have some way to get out of the weather, particularly in the evenings and it just gets colder and colder and windier and windier and possibly storm we're in Estonia. And so a mess 10 Something that's strong. We've tried all sorts of things we've we've bought, again, those fancy sort of geometric domes or whatever geodesic domes, we've actually come back to heavyweight and they really are heavy sort of ripstop canvas tents that we haul up there with steel poles, and they get guide out and tied to rocks and all sorts of things. But it means that we've got a lovely big space in there. We take tables and chairs up because you know you don't want to be sitting on the floor eating all the time. And then we'll make sure we have fantastic food. And that's important for people as well. You know, it's all a lot of it's about that that sort of shared time sitting around sharing meals together having time to talk over things. I popped in there Porter tents as well. I mean, one of the things to ask is whether there are enough Porter tents, sleeping tents for all the porters. Something that some of them will cut rate companies will do is that they will say that, you know you eight or 10 porters, you guys are going to sleep in the mess tent, which is fine until you realize that those guys are stood outside shivering while you're lingering over your meal. And you end up with this terrible feeling of guilt the whole time. So it's important that they have their their own chance to sleep in and not be not be going into the

Mimi Lichtenstein 42:10
MSE agree with you, that does sound terrible. And something you might need to know before you head up there. One of my favorite things I learned from you is about how well not favorite but how many porters it takes to take a family up to the top, which when you consider all the things you just mentioned, and someone has to carry them. And it's not travelers who are carrying all this stuff. It's a lot of people telling me a

Richard Beatty 42:32
huge number of people and people don't quite quite realize. So porn is a reasonably well regulated app on Kilimanjaro. And one of the key numbers up there is the amount that they're allowed to carry, but they can't be overburdened. So you do end up with an awful lot of porters out there. Because don't forget, you don't just have the porter that's carrying the food and the cooking gas for your meal, you also have to have a porter carrying the food and cooking gas for the porters carrying the cooking gas for you. And so it just goes on exponentially. So ask about the number of porters that that would be on the trip for any number of clients. We've got some example numbers a little bit later on, they'll give you an idea of those but then tuck those will vary. That's that's a team there for. For VIP clients. This was last week or the week before this team was up on the mountain. Okay, that gives you a little bit of an idea how many people you need to support that many people up on the mountain. So a lot of people. But if we could just go back one slide. A couple more points on there. There's an organization called K Pat, which is a Kilimanjaro porters Assistance Project. And we were founded members of setup long time ago, maybe 1520 years ago. And now their role is to is to try and improve the lot of porters on Kilimanjaro. So it's important, whoever you choose, make sure they're a member of that organization, you can Google them, and they've got a list of who's a member and who's not there. But then also Scott also asked about sort of training and development opportunities for the porters you know, some of these guys, some of these guys are happy to be porters, you know, and a lot of them have other jobs, it's a bit of a seasonal so they'll have a small farm or something and then they'll just happy to go and portrait and some money to keep them going. But others, you know, they've got they've got that little spark that I talked about in their eye and they've got potential and whether they're given the opportunity to grow that potential and when they appear to Porter weight limits. This is something that parks tries to administer all the loads of weight at the gate on their way up. But there was always ways around these things. So do make sure that they're adhering to those, those weight limits and that the porters are properly equipped, you know, sadly, some porters go out there and they think it's some guys think it's easy money they'll just go and carry a bag up to the top of the mountain and back down again. They don't have the right equipment to keep them safe and healthy up there. So make sure that there's something's done and there's places these porters can go on for a very nominal amount can hire this this kind of majority gyro ports Assistance Project Cape app and have a rental store for peanuts. Really, these guys can rent equipment to keep them keep them warm and dry up there. And then finally that they're properly accommodated and fed that they're getting enough food during the day and they're burning a phenomenal amount of energy these guys, you will be amazed at them, you'll be there in all your your, your sort of fancy North Face down jackets and whatever, struggling with your tiny little rucksack and these guys with a much, much bigger, they'll carry out 20 kilos of your stuff, and then four kilos of their own 24 kilo weight limit, that there'll be a come storming past you sort of whistling and trotting as they go. So a lot of respect for those guys, they're very tough guys.

Mimi Lichtenstein 45:39
Absolutely. You want to have good people supporting you on your hike up, that's for sure.

Richard Beatty 45:45
So there's some ideas of numbers there. So this is for a standard climb, not the VIP climb. So clients, you're going to have 25, porters carrying your stuff up there, can you believe it. But don't forget that that ratio gets better as you go on. Because you know that safety equipment, the oxygen, we talked about the Gamow Bag, the toilet, all those things they need to go even for one person all that kit has to go up there. But then if you have 16 people, it still only has I mean, obviously it's more toilets, but you don't all have to share the same toilet. But that gives you an idea. So you get up to a group of 16 clients, you've got a team of 94, porters. So it's quite quite the management issue, you know that somebody has got to manage those guys, make sure that they will get the right amount of kit and nothing gets left behind. And no one is getting left with a bigger load than the other people. So it's quite sad that they all get fat. And they all you know, they all get a fair, fair share of the food that they all get somewhere warm and dried asleep. Here the question I

Mimi Lichtenstein 46:44
just thought of, okay, curious the answer. Are there any female quarters?

Richard Beatty 46:51
Very, very few is the answer. And I think that sort of culturally is perceived as more of a man's job, there are no restrictions about it, you know, any women can go up and do it. And there are a few of them. And I think if you'd asked me that question, five years ago, I said no, so it's a growing, it's a growing number.

Mimi Lichtenstein 47:08
Yeah, I mean, it's obviously super hard, you know, on your body and all of that. So you have to be well prepared to even attempt it, I imagine if there are some or whoever they are, that they are very well respected for showing

Richard Beatty 47:25
respect to what we tend to do. So if we have a, we have a list of bought, it's kind of approved by us, and then we'll rotate through that list. But then if somebody has somebody new, then they have to be sponsored by one of our one of our not top leaders, but someone who's sort of worked for us for a while, they'll bounce to somebody, and then the first time we'll send them up, we'll send them up. And they don't carry a load, they just just walk along, and we feed them and accommodate them, and so on. And that's just to make sure they can make it and then the second time, they'll get a light load and then we'll see if they make it third time they get a proper load. And then if they sort of pass that one, we get a report back from the everybody from from the guides that the assistant guys so the cook as to how willing they are to work, you know, what we need is we need someone who, who if the wind starts blowing, and the head guide says go out and check the guy ropes, they jump up and they go and do it. They don't say no, I'm just not what happened, man find somebody else. Yeah, we're looking for guys who go the extra mile. All right,

Mimi Lichtenstein 48:26
well, I'm gonna, I know we talked a little bit about sort of how to prepare for it. I'm going to skip over this one for now, because people can look at the video and go through it themselves. Just to keep us on task. You talked a little bit about the VIP option, which includes having more quarters, and I think caring less for individuals. Sounds like a great option to me. I'll take that one. And then let's go over a little bit about you know, we've touched a little bit about life on the mountain. Are there other things you want to add to kind of what people should expect during their days?

Richard Beatty 48:56
Well, I think just that you know, the aim is to make it as nice as we possibly can. So you can see that top left side is the guys who come around in the morning while you're still in snuggled up in your sleeping bag and bring you a cup of tea or coffee or whatever floats your boat.

Mimi Lichtenstein 49:12
Those are my favorite guys. And also a bowl

Richard Beatty 49:15
of hot water. You know, one of the things everybody says is, will there be showers up on the mountain. And you'll find if you go and look on the internet, you'll find some company that will say sure we'll take a shower up there, because they're absolutely certain that nobody's going to get a shower shower up there. Can you imagine that sort of temperature taking all your clothes off and getting wet. So what we do instead is that whenever you want so usually evening, first thing in the morning will bring you a bowl of piping hot water and then you have a flannel and you give yourself a sort of a sponge bath. You know, like they're sort of doing the hospitals that you expose a little bit of your body one by one and you clean that bit and then you put it in, get it dressed again and keep it warm. But it's not always like that. If you look at that next picture over on the top, that guy sent outside his tent with his legs, with his trouser legs rolled up and his boots off, that's actually in the crater camp. So that guy is tapped to over 18 and a half 1000 feet. And it's not always cold and miserable out there. You know, it's just a great place that to be. The next one, keep keeping going further right with the guys that were stepping up next to what looks like a tree are these giants and ACOs, which are pretty unique plant that that grows up on the on the sheer edge of the Shira plateau, down in the Bronco Valley. And pretty fun. So, and again, our guides will be showing you all sorts of flora and fauna, and really very knowledgeable about it that the geology of the mountain and what's happening where you know that they're not just a mountain guide there a guide guide as well.

Mimi Lichtenstein 50:43
Yeah, yeah,

Richard Beatty 50:44
hold up there, we got some more pictures of it there. So those are the Giants and ACOs. Again, oh, it's actually the same guy sitting next to the same tree. But you can see the different the different bands, that you go through with different vegetation, different bands, before you get up to that sort of Arctic layer in the top. And that's up in the crater again, with those lumps of ice going around there. And I

Mimi Lichtenstein 51:08
love how you wrote it's not just about the sun, that it's a perfect example of the quote, right, it's not about the destination. It's the journey. So yeah, it's

Richard Beatty 51:16
making that journey as enjoyable as we possibly can. You know, it's hard work every day. And you've got to walk uphill a long way. But doesn't mean it has to be sort of drudgery. Mm hmm. This is actually a picture of that hole in the top in that amazing. And the top of killing. So when people ask us about preparation, we talked about that a little bit already. You know, the best, the best way is to walk up hills as possible, as much as you can. So we always say that anybody can get to the top Achille, it's not so much you need a certain level of fitness, but you really don't have to be desperately fit, you know, 99% of it's up here. It's about the mental preparedness, they're willing to sort of keep pushing yourself when things get a little bit. So we've taken some desperately unfit people up there, and they've struggled. But we've taken them up there, you really are rushing me along here, maybe I'm I'm running out of time, I can feel it's like the second hand is going faster and faster.

Mimi Lichtenstein 52:11
Well, yeah, I prepared you for that. I said, you and I told you, I need two hours, I need two hours. We could talk for six hours, but not everybody else has six hours. But

Richard Beatty 52:22
just to give you some examples, now a price. And you can, you know, the thing I'll say to you is you can always find something cheaper on the internet. And the thing I would say to you about this, it's you know, not all Kilimanjaro climbs are the same. And it's when you go out to buy a car, you can go out and buy yourself a Rolls Royce, or you can go out and buy yourself a Skoda. You know, they're both cars, but they're very, very different experiences. And so what we try to offer is that is that special private trip experience, and that the number obviously gets cheaper as you have more people because there are some fixed costs, the guide, you know, the porters carrying all that safety equipment. But that gives you some ideas, and then the VIP options that we talked about 1000 little extra things that we do to make it make it more fun, make it more interesting and make it more comfortable.

Mimi Lichtenstein 53:09
That one, just so you know, I'm doing that

Richard Beatty 53:11
one. We've got you booked in already, don't worry. We'll have you up.

Mimi Lichtenstein 53:15
I want the V V VIP one. That's all I want. I think you know, for people who have no idea what it costs, this is so helpful just to get a you know, a comparison. First of all, you know, from if you did it shorter, would it be less expensive? Absolutely. I think this is a very good example of you get what you pay for you can find something online that's a lot less expensive. But all of those things that you were talking about from safety and comfort and guides importers, like you don't know the difference between what that is and what this is. So while I'm

Richard Beatty 53:44
that was a hug that you you know, if you are going to go something a little bit cheaper that hopefully this will help you ask the right questions. And do your own maths, you know, ask them ask them to break out the park fees for you. And then seek compare them with someone else's, you know, you'll find people out there offering Kilimanjaro clients for less than the cost of the park fees. Well, there's just something not right there. So just don't show up.

Mimi Lichtenstein 54:07
You have to pay for your park fees, right. So you know, not super fun surprises. We love to be surprised, but we always like them to be happy to like full support.

Richard Beatty 54:15
Happy surprises. It's just Kilimanjaro is such a fantastic mountain. So I really encourage all of you everybody should go and climb Kilimanjaro. Everybody Everybody listening to this is capable of doing it. I think we I oldest is sort of 89 or 90 year old chap, we took him and he made him back down again so everybody can do it. It's just such a rewarding experience. You know, it's not always going to be easy, but it's always going to be fun.

Mimi Lichtenstein 54:38
Absolutely. And again with kids you have teenagers and college kids you know who play sports in high school in college like these people are right to do something like this the accomplishment and you know the sense of accomplishment you get Yeah, it doesn't mean anything and the quality time with your family so good. You're the best I loved it. is an excellent, so much fun to learn about hiking up there and to hear more about your company and the focus that you have on developing your people and keeping them local. Like it's just all such great information so that people know. This is the standard that's out there. And you know, it's one that you can have if you if you hike up with you guys. So thank you.

Richard Beatty 55:20
Fantastic. I mean, join. It was too short, but I've enjoyed it.

Mimi Lichtenstein 55:24
We'll do another one. Okay. Well, thank you so much, Richard, and we will be in touch. Take care. Bye. Bye. If you enjoyed today's show and don't want to miss an episode, you can subscribe and follow the show wherever you listen to your podcasts. And if you haven't already, I would really appreciate it if you could leave a rating and review to let me know what you think and to help others find adventures and luxury travel. I want your honest feedback so I can create a podcast that shares lots of insights to help travelers have more amazing adventures. Visit true Bay travel.com backslash podcast launch for step by step instructions on how to subscribe rate and review adventures and luxury travel today. See you next time. Thank you for listening to this episode of adventures and luxury travel. If you want more travel tips go to true a travel.com where you can sign up for our newsletter that shares more inspiring travel ideas around the world. See you here next week.