Adventures in Luxury Travel

Mimi Lichtenstein 0:01
If you're a traveler that believes luxury and adventure are not mutually exclusive, then you're in the right place. Every week I take you to a new destination with one of my partners, sharing the hidden gems over the top experiences and active adventures to inspire your next family vacation. I'm Mimi Lichtenstein, an experienced Travel Advisor who has also traveled with my three teenagers and my husband around the world. Let's get started. Welcome to Episode 33 of adventures and luxury travel. Just a reminder, you can see the photos we talked about on the show and a full video on true Bay travel.com. Today, Dylan and I talk about Rwanda, what it's like to go gorilla trekking, and so much more Rwanda has a complex history. It's made incredible strides since the genocide of 1994. With its community economy and wildlife, the people are warm, the culture is colorful and the gorillas are magical. Join us as we talk about what a day gorilla tracking is really like understanding the difference between Rwanda and Uganda, Gorilla tracks, and all of the other wildlife and experiences you can have in this resilient country. Visit true a travel.com/ 33 for a video of today's show and additional resources. Today on Adventures in luxury travel. I am super excited to have Dylan Harris here with me to talk all about gorilla tracking in Rwanda, Dylan, thanks for coming.

Dylan 1:29
Thank you, me. I'm lovely to be here. Join me this morning.

Mimi Lichtenstein 1:33
Well, you are one of my go to experts on everything. African safaris. And gorilla tracking is obviously a unique type of, you know, Safari or wildlife experience. And I know you're deep in, you know, your knowledge base of all the different lodges and different places. So I'm excited to kind of seek all your expertise today. Thanks for Thanks for being here. I look forward to sharing them. Yeah, well, do you want to start by I'm going to pull up a map? And would you give us like a little bit of an overview of the country where where the gorillas are, and the fact that Rwanda actually isn't just gorillas. There's other things to do in Rwanda. So tell us a little bit about those two.

Dylan 2:12
Wonderful, and I think that is such an important point that you mentioned there, me, you know, traditionally, Rwanda was always a destination for gorilla tracking alone. And that's very much a thing of the past. Now, if we have a look at Rwanda itself as a map, Kigali is the capital in the center of the country. It's probably one of the most cleanest cities in the world. And then you have really at this stage, that you have three main national parks. So on the north western boundary of Rwanda, you have Volcanoes National Park, and that is where all the gorillas are. So you're looking if you have a look at the map, you can see the DRC further north, west and then to the north Uganda. And in that region on the border is where all the where the loss of the mountain gorillas in the world are. Luckily for us, Rwanda has probably about two thirds of the gorillas left in the wild and had doing a phenomenal job of protecting them. But we will get to more information on that a bit later, then down in the South Pass Lake Kivu, you've got nowhere Forest National Park. And this is pretty much focused on chimpanzees and other primates. So you get the colobus monkeys here as well, you've got two groups of habituated chimps. And when I say habituated, I don't mean time in any way. They've been obliterated in the way that they're used to humans being around the two groups. One is quite a big group. It's about 60 animals. And the other the last time was about 30 animals, they still quite wild. And it's one of those experiences that we certainly don't guarantee seeing the chimps, for us also has one of the most amazing canopy walks and we'll go get into that just now. And then we've got Akira in the eastern part of the country, which is an amazing National Park. There's been a lot of interest and introduction of wildlife over the recent years wilderness has opened a campaign recently, well, a couple of years ago, I was up there in June and accidentally loved it. So just with those three national parks, and in Kigali for the history, you can certainly easily do a 10 or 11 Day itinerary around the wonder and the star verse enough that at first from a topography as well as from an activity perspective, that you would have an amazing trip.

Mimi Lichtenstein 4:31
Well, it does sound like it's quite a combination. And as far as seeing, you know, diversity of animals. My understanding was the rhinoceroses the black rhinos were reintroduced from Europe, they were moved over to Rwanda back in 2000. Something

Dylan 4:46
I think, y'all mid 2000 2005 2006 some way they they're up in the Akira so I could get her we had Rhino there was Rhino from South Africa, reentry. Do you stay, there was line reintroduced. So we're why all these animals were injured reintroduces during the genocide in 2000, and sorry, 1994 a lot of what most of the animals were poached. And you can imagine the folks there during this awful time, a lot of the photo went into hiding into the national parks and poaching just purely to keep themselves alive. So there was very little from a wildlife perspective in that National Park until about probably 15 years ago, they started the reintroduction of animals.

Mimi Lichtenstein 5:34
Okay, well, it's such a great story that they were essentially decimated during this very challenging time in the country, and that the population has been climbing back for gorillas, for rhinoceroses, for lions, right, a beautiful testament to what the efforts and the conservation, which is, by the way, a lot of the money that you pay to go on safari goes to these efforts that you will have these animals for the future,

Dylan 5:57
very much. And I have to say, from a gorilla perspective, I think it's one of the few conservation projects, which really is directly related to the tourism dollar that has been so successful. And in my opinion, I believe if if it wasn't for the tourist dollar, those animals would be extinct now.

Mimi Lichtenstein 6:16
Amazing. And let's touch on real quick before we go on to dive into Rwanda, the difference between seeing mountain gorillas, you could go to Uganda, or you could go to Rwanda, why would one person go to one over the other?

Dylan 6:28
That's an interesting question. Because the experience itself is very, very similar. I think it comes down to cost, it comes down to the itinerary as a whole. So we are your gateway, the guests coming from pre gorillas. And I think one of the things that does that I'm very aware of is as we were talking earlier, gorilla, Gorilla tracking is quite an act of experience. And but there are folks who I mean, I took my mom who was 76, at the mountain a few years ago, and she's a foot 76. But you know, in Uganda, when you are when you book your permit, you get allocated the family of the rulers that you're going to see, at booking, so you could end up with a family that is eight or nine hour trek, where a wonder you book your permits, but you only get allocated on the morning of your trek. And for me, that is very important because the warden in in the Volcanoes National Park in one is a wonderful gentleman, and you can chat him and say, Look, you know, my guys, our team is not as fit, or they really want to go and do an ATAR walk and he will allocate accordingly. So for me, that's probably one of the most important side of things. The prospect, of course, is very different between Uganda and Rwanda, Uganda, the permits are only $650 per person, where Rwanda is $1,500. But if you're only going to do one permit, by the time in Uganda, you need to fly from Entebbe up into the windy to where the gorillas are. So by the time you've paid for your logistics, it's even that very much on price between the two countries. So you know, again, it's a very personalized thing. It depends on the client's what what they're looking for, and what is most suited to them. In all honesty, we I prefer a wonder, I think it's an overall an amazing experience from seeing the history seeing how far the country has come. It's such a vibrant, welcoming country, the people are just incredible. And yeah, I love I guess going through one that everybody just leaves they in love with the people in the country.

Mimi Lichtenstein 8:31
And it's funny, because you're going there, right? The gorillas are the draw as we flip through a few gorilla photos, they're the draw, but you get there and you become enchanted with these warm people and this colorful country and culture. So I think that those are some of the unexpected things that are the things that touch people so deeply when they go on almost any Safari, and particularly here that you're going home feeling really quite impacted.

Dylan 8:54
Thanks very much.

Mimi Lichtenstein 8:56
Okay, so gorillas, the highlights are the gorillas. Tell us a little bit about what we're in Rwanda? What's a day in the life of, you know, going on a gorilla trek? Here's an example with a picture of somebody from Singita, who's doing like one of the briefings, which happens probably the day before you go out, right?

Dylan 9:11
That's right. So that briefing happens the evening before. So what happens is, you need to be at the national park headquarters at 7am in the morning on arrival, and just stepping one step back on this with COVID. I went up there in June just to really get a true understanding of how they've adapted things with COVID. So we weren't, are we not irresponsible by continuing to sell this experience, if it's going to affect the gorillas. And I was so impressed with the protocols that they had in place. So on arrival, you'll get sanitized, your temperature gets taken and you're wearing a mask. You will also have to have a PCR test in order to do this experience. And I don't foresee that that's going to change in the next you know, your I wouldn't imagine you will then get allocated a group of gorillas. So bearing in mind gorillas of luck like humans as the sunsets they will miss down for the night. So The range is no more or less where the gorillas will that particular family was the night before. Of course, anything can happen during the night, if they are disturbed, they could run up into the mountains. But generally they have a great idea. You then get allocated accordingly. And you leave the national park headquarters by vehicle and you drive to the closest entry point to where those gorillas are entry point of the National Park. So it's quite interesting because this whole national park is literally the fence is a wall is, you know, sort of a three foot stone wall that you can climb over at any time, you've got the local folk farming on the peripheral of a national park, generally, it's potato farming. And so you walk through the fields, which is amazing to start because you just see the local villagers and all the ladies that are you know, prepping their fields in the morning. So it's really a joyous experience just getting to the wall of the park, and then you'll go over the wall, and you will continue hiking. So with while you're hiking, you will have a porter with you. So your porter will assist you with the hike, but they will also carry your whether it be your day bag with your water, etc. We highly recommend that you the porter's also offer a rental service of a walking stick, you know, it's about $2. So it doesn't cost a lot. But of course, it means a lot to the local community. So you have your walking stick with you. And then your hike can be anything from I've hiked 20 minutes, and we found the family or I've hiked eight and a half hours, and we found the family. So it really all just depends on where that particular family is. As you get closer. Your Ranger your national park rangers trekking with you will stop you and you then have to literally put down all your bags, your sticks, everything I don't think a lot to take in is your camera equipment. And an interesting thing that I learned on this last trip was that even a tripod, they don't want you to take that in because during the years where the gorillas were heavily poached poachers were using sticks. So the older gorillas still relate a tripod to a stick. And they're actually quite fearful from it and possibly dangerous. And I just put Amazing how these animals can remember so far back. So you leave that in, and then you walk into where the gorillas are, and you have one hour with them, I can tell you, it'll be the fastest hour of your life, you will probably have goosebumps the entire time because it is the most incredible experience. In theory, you're not allowed to get closer than they say seven meters or now during COVID. It's 10 meters to the gorillas. Gorillas don't know what 10 meters are. So pre COVID, often you would have the little ones coming up and you know, playing with your feet and getting quite close encounters but safe encounters the Rangers are absolutely fantastic. They combined with the English language, they are clear, there is no misunderstanding of what they're saying. So you really do feel safe, you spend that hour with them. Often they're in the bamboo areas, and they're just sitting eating the bamboo. Sometimes you'll find them in the canopy areas, but very seldom on the move because generally by the time you got to them, it's about 1011 o'clock in the morning. And like humans, were also looking for our tea at that time of the day. And that's exactly what they're doing. They're having their nibbles and the greatest to watch all the interaction and that once you've finished with our the Rangers will then ask you to leave and you go back collect the rest of your stuff and you start your hike down the forest hike is incredible. You know the the topography changes from from sort of from the lower areas. As you go through, you go through lovely bamboo areas, amazing canopy areas. This is a buffalo in the park as well as elephant, which you seldom see. But they're certainly around you often see they're done in this world. It's just such a beautiful area to hike in you sitting at about 7000 foot above sea level. So you are quiet time I've never had an issue with you know, oxygen or anything like that. And most of our clients haven't. And I think the one important thing to remember with the gorillas is, for the last 910 years that we've been booking guests into Rwanda, we've never had a guest not see a gorilla. And you

spend all this money, you know what if and they pretty much guarantee you that you will get to see them. They're not telling you how long you'll heartful but you will get to see them.

Mimi Lichtenstein 14:24
Everybody get a little bit of conditioning. And before you before you had to ask that.

Dylan 14:28
We recommend that you know we say to our guests, you know spend a bit of time getting fit, because you don't want to be totally unfit and not enjoy the experience. Now that is really a once in a lifetime experience.

Mimi Lichtenstein 14:38
And I will say the summer family went to Alaska and one of my big things I wanted to see was the big brown bears. And the problem there is that you a lot of times are flying into them and the weather can preclude you from going and my thought was, Oh, how terrible to go all the way to Alaska and not see any bears. So we lucked out our day went it was amazing, but good to know that you have that track record number one and number two, you're just relying on your own two feet to really get up there. So you'll see that, yeah,

Dylan 15:06
I leave it all there is what we call the Virunga helicopter, which is literally a stretcher. And, you know, not for people who are with all the respects in the world lazy, but most of folk who are literally aren't able to get up, but all they want to do is see the gorilla. So whether they, you know, just physically they've had a knee replacement, or they physically cannot, you know, walk up the hill, it's $300 Extra, and you will be carried up and down in the Virunga helicopter. It's safe. It's we've had two or three of our guests over the years do it. For me, it's more of a moving experience when you've got somebody who isn't, wouldn't be able to get themselves up there. And now they're able to see, you know, these gorillas, it's just incredible. So bear that in mind, anybody who feels they can't do it. It can.

Mimi Lichtenstein 15:52
Yeah. Well, so that's so good to know. I actually didn't know that. And I think that's amazing for all the people who maybe thought that they can't go on the gorilla track, because they can't get up there. But they actually can. That's good. So pretty much. What about privatizing the gorilla trek minor, my understanding is, then they're going to be coming to you at your lodge, maybe at seven o'clock. So you don't have to get as early of a start. If you do a private

Dylan 16:18
do that. So currently, there's earning six people can go in and see a family of gorillas COVID, time pre COVID. And I would imagine probably in a year's time, it will revert back to eight, the private to the private experience is $15,000.

Mimi Lichtenstein 16:35
Over the top category,

Dylan 16:37
very much. And we've had guests that done it and you know, it's been a wonderful experience. But in the same job, if you're a family of six, currently, you're going to get a private experience. That is you're going to have to go to them, you know, which is only $9,000 Or when it goes back to eight. So it can be done. But it is it is that price point there.

Mimi Lichtenstein 16:56
Okay, well throw it in the over the top category, then you mentioned before the purpose to go see them are $1,500 a day in Rwanda. What about ages 15 years and up?

Dylan 17:06
Exactly. And this is purely because that feel a lot of folk, a lot of the kids under 15 do carry a lot of illnesses that the gorillas can get. And obviously, our number one issue is the safety of the gorillas. It's the same as if you have a flu. So you know, even before COVID If you all had flu, or coughing, they won't allow you to hike. So you know, you need to be healthy. So you don't pass on any, you know, illnesses to these animals.

Mimi Lichtenstein 17:36
And the 15 is like a hard and fast rule. It's not based on maturity level, then yeah,

Dylan 17:41
okay. That's not negotiable on that. Yeah, they're very strict on that. And even in the private experience,

Mimi Lichtenstein 17:47
okay. And so for the people who might come to Rwanda with younger kids, if the parents want to go see it, and they have littler kids, they many of these lodges will still take the younger kids, it's just that they stay back.

Dylan 17:58
Okay. Very much. And they have activities, you know, you're the likes of your singing eaters. And besides, you have amazing activities for the kids while they while they folks are hiking. So, you know, certainly don't not hike because you know, the kids have to stay behind. Okay,

Mimi Lichtenstein 18:15
so here's a smaller primate a chimpanzee track that people can go on, like you mentioned in the southwest corner of Rwanda. Interesting, interesting to know that the gorillas are almost a guaranteed sighting, but the chimpanzees are not

Dylan 18:29
very much. And if I have to be very honest with you, the chimps, we probably more not than actually get to see, the situation process hasn't been a success as as successful as it could have been. The good news, though, is Gish Swati, which is a little National Park, just south of the Volcanoes National Park has been allocated to the forest of hope, which is an NGO and wilderness far as has partnered with him and are currently habituating chimps in that National Park, which we incredibly excited about. I believe wilderness will build a lodge in the National Park. So time to come. So to have that experience, so close to the gorillas, you know, you could do it's about an hour and a half drive from volcanoes. It would be an amazing combination. So that is on the cards and very exciting.

Mimi Lichtenstein 19:21
Okay. And then we're gonna flip through some of the wildlife we touched on the zebras and elephants and giraffes and black rhinoceroses. I mean, you're not going to just see gorillas if you come to Rwanda.

Dylan 19:33
No, I mean, that wildlife the a lot of those photos I took when we were in gushy Akira in June.

Mimi Lichtenstein 19:40
Oh, really? Just this summer. Nice. Good. See, they're out there happy and healthy. Alright, let's touch on. Let's touch on some of the amazing beautiful camps lodges that they have. It's sort of a very concentrated I mean, Rwanda, I think is like Botswana that they are having a very how do they say it like sort of low impact right, very cold. Aveda experience, it's not mass market. Safari ism. Yeah,

Dylan 20:04
absolutely not. And that was that what that does make Rwanda special. And they've also partnered with some fantastic Safari or lodge operators who are very conscious when it comes to the community when it comes to conservation, which is really exciting. So yes.

Mimi Lichtenstein 20:20
So this one is a picture of the one and only gorillas Nest has a great name, right? I love the one and only brands I was just at the one in Montenegro last month, and you know, they're hand over heart and very sort of, kind of generous spirit is pervasive throughout all of their properties. So tell us a little bit about the gorillas nest.

Dylan 20:40
I've got the gorillas nest in the way that it's, again, it's it's quite a large lodge in comparison to the other lodges in the area. But the way it has been sort of spread out in the forest, you would never think so they've got to the rooms that are beautifully laid out the they've got a number of sort of guest areas. So again, you're not having the lodge or descending onto one area, you've got a number of pools, you've got the most incredible spa, Jack Hanna, who is the world known late geologist with previous to one and only taking over this property, Jack Hanna had his home there, which you could stay in, and I've stayed there. And now they've converted very much into sort of a club type feeling. There's a billiard room, and you know, and it's lovely just to have, you know, drinks there before your dinner. But it's another area that people can get away with, from a location point of view. And I do think that people need to take this into account. Well, I certainly take into account when we planning the experience is it's relatively in the middle of where the national parks offices is, and to the various entry points of the National Park. So you're not having to get up at the crack of dawn, to do like, sort of an hour's drive to the National Park. So this location is very good.

Mimi Lichtenstein 22:00
Okay. It was one of one of the first ones right?

Dylan 22:05
Originally, one it was actually on by Dubai World, okay, and one and only bought it and it's only just recently opened as one and only, but the lodge itself, you are correct, was one of the original lodges in the area, but not under one and only.

Mimi Lichtenstein 22:21
Okay. And then it's also I think one of the bigger ones, 2024 rooms and 25 rooms, okay, so and it has a pool, so they don't all have this sort of extra pool fitness center. But this is one of the bigger ones that does.

Dylan 22:37
It is and you know, there's also bearing in mind where you are, and I know it's because, you know, people said, well, you come in to hike the gorilla. So you should be fit. But there are some properties, which we got to take into account that it is quite a hike from where you get from your rival points up to the property. So this one and some Gita or sort of on level, so you will arrive and wandering earlier actually have golf carts in between the properties, or in between the units and Singita. It's all on ground level. So there's no hiking to get to your unit and like the Sati and Sabine, you're

Mimi Lichtenstein 23:09
okay, that's good to know. And so here's a picture of the Singita beautiful really is, it looks lovely with that view.

Dylan 23:19
They've done a fantastic job, they really have again, you know, taking into, they're taking the community in mind. They've worked with various conservation organizations, and they're just such a responsible company, the views. I mean, that was from the room that I stayed in, their enormous you've got your private plunge pool area that was overlooking one of the volcanoes and in that area in front, often we actually when we were there, we walked up in the afternoon with a lovely walk and we walked up towards buffalo. There were lots of Antelope in the area. So there is wildlife in the area. Wonderful activities here you can learn to weave baskets, carve beading, and they've got a wonderful center which they've partnered with the local community. So you know, you're normally getting back from gorilla trekking and about two three o'clock depending on how long you trip for and you do have a couple of hours they've got the most incredible vegetable garden there as well which you can go and visit they've done a fantastic job we also mustn't forget about Qatar Aza, which is Qatar is the house which is the private villa four bedrooms right next door to this property, but absolutely perfect for a large group of friends or a family they they've got two swimming pools, lots of public area and of course guests have access to the main lodge to should they wish to come down. So gates is known for their wine. They're known for their food they've got a wonderful wine cellar. We did Wine Tasting while we were there. It's you know, it's not what you go for. But it's certainly all these little extras which just make it special. Yeah, I thought some gators briefing the night before was superb they buy in if I to your gorilla experience is is remarkable. They've got this wonderful room, which has lots of information about the gorillas, and about Dinah fazzi, they've actually got the Infosys photographer, all his equipment is he passed away not too long ago, and that equipment was asked was donated to them, their kick drum is unbelievable with as far as you know, your your gators and your even boots, everything you can imagine that you need, they've got it there for you. And it's included. So they've really, really, they understand that this is a once in a lifetime experience for a guest and bearing in mind, they've got nothing to do with the permit. You know, the gorilla checking is really not the baby. But yet they've bought in to your experience and made sure that everything is taken care of s&p to does

Mimi Lichtenstein 25:44
I love it. So I mean, they're obviously well known as a high end luxury Safari company all throughout Africa, but to hear your expertise and your perspective about how magical it is, is really good to know, because it might come at a really high price point. But if it's worth it, then you know, you're up for it. But you never want to pay that much and not have it be worth it. But sounds like it's worth it.

Dylan 26:07
No, it's worth every cent in my mind. Okay, good.

Mimi Lichtenstein 26:11
And then this is kind of I guess, this is the one more outlier in the group of the different lodges that we're going to talk about. Tell us a little bit about this one.

Dylan 26:19
This is the opinion to community owned property in partnership with governors. And in actual fact, Gavin is owned by wilderness. So wilderness is also involved wilderness advice also involved here. It was recently when I say recently, you know, 2020 wasn't a year for us. So probably 2019 or 2018, it had a total soft refurb so the lodge is looking beautiful. This is one of the properties that as I mentioned, you need to climb up to so you need to be fit to your land and you know, you've got a good few stairs to get up to it. Lovely little rooms for fireplaces and good sized bathrooms wonderful view and a lovely main area. I would call this sort of more a top end for entry level five experience. You know, this was the most luxury property five years ago in Rwanda, you know, before for 40 in one and only and I think heater opened this was it? And I guess all

Mimi Lichtenstein 27:11
Yeah, well it looks very cozy. I mean, all of these, I think many of them have fireplaces in them, you know for that sort of cold or damp morning, or evening and it just looks so very cozy and lush to be snuggled up in one of these little cottages very much. Now here's the opposite end of the a very contemporary modern interpretation, wilderness safaris besotted lounges, or lodges that look slightly like they're from another planet. Tell us a little bit about

Dylan 27:44
you. Sometimes you do have to wonder what these architects are on when

Mimi Lichtenstein 27:49
he was definitely in some sort of like Dr. Seuss mode or something, I think

Dylan 27:53
it was. And you know, they try and tell us, you know, they call them nests. So it's supposed to be what a gorillas nest looks like. So you've got six nests for each unit that you see there to the left is the bedroom. And then to the right is the bathroom there have the most incredible views from a sense of destination. It's unbelievable that you know, that's the main area there are your meals are then off to the right to the far end and on to the veranda area. And this has taken sort of from the bar area looking down, it is a beautiful Lodge, it really is. And what's very exciting for me with the Sati is wilderness has opened a day lounge. So so often you get guests who actually hike on the day, they are going to depart. And as you can imagine guests need to check out as anywhere else in the world needs to check out. So the arriving guests, the ones already and they don't offer a late checkout, it just doesn't work in these remote areas. So guests can leave for the trick. And then when they come back all the luggage and that has been taken over to the day, the day Lounge, which has showers and changing rooms, it has the most beautiful restaurant with lovely views, it's got quite an impressive retail therapy area. So some good shopping with a lot of local with their pocket with local villages and that to you know, produce goods in there that they sell. So that is and there's no extra charge for that. So you know, for me, that is a big, big plus for selling this property in the same job. If you arrive early in the morning, you know, you can arrive and have sort of breakfast or lunch and you know, just chill the while you are waiting for your room to be ready.

Mimi Lichtenstein 29:36
Yeah, I think, you know, I mentioned I just finished my wilderness Safari certification. And that was one of the key items that you don't hear about that. And you know, not just Rwanda but you know, and all the different lodges and I think for a lot of people if you've ever experienced having to leave your room at 12 But you don't have to leave the property until four and you feel a little homeless. Like they're very intentionally making a place that feels like They count for you. Which is really?

Dylan 30:03
Yeah, very much. So. Love that.

Mimi Lichtenstein 30:05
So now we're transitioning over to the ACCA Gara. National Park. I love this because are you? Are they all the rivals by boat there?

Dylan 30:13
No. So you actually you'd either come in by road or you'd fly. But a lot of the activities are done by boat. And again, I agree, I love it. You know, for me, a lot of your game drives, you know, even on the driving, you're driving around, it's all the waters sort of in the background. So it's so different. And especially if you've come in, say from the Serengeti, or from the Maasai Mara, where you've been really focused on ground Safari, so lands forests, as we call them, very little water around. And then to come over and do three nights here, pre your gorilla trekking, or possibly post, I would recommend pre and you've got all this wildlife with this enormous lake behind it as its its setting. It is special, and then going out on the boat, you know, we saw wonderful herds of elephants, I mean, crocodiles, you know, I would even I wouldn't want to fall into that water. There's just so many crocs so many.

Mimi Lichtenstein 31:06
Yeah, no swimming are incredible.

Dylan 31:08
It really was special. i Oh, my gosh, she stole my heart in so many ways. tenths of which I'm sure is a photo of their, their beautifully done. Again, sense of destination authenticity. It just oozes it. There we go, you know, and great, you can see that good space between the two lovely extents, I think, right? Yeah, that's more there are in the process of, and again, COVID, unfortunately, delayed things, but they are in the process of doing a little mushy, and there will be another camp there. But certainly, and again, this is just really put a wonder on the map as a destination. It's not just career, it's the wildlife here, the lion, the leopard. And for that, you know, the big thing here is you've got some incredible special birds in this area. One of them is a Schuble, you know, it's a very rare sighted bird occurring in this sort of swamp type of vegetation. And that hadn't been seen for about five or six years. And I believe it was May this year. And since May, they've had a number of sightings for it. So if you've got any twitches or any twitches want to you know, Rwanda is a destination, there's some real special birds in that area.

Mimi Lichtenstein 32:15
Okay, well, it sounds lovely. We're gonna skip back, I have this one out of order, tell us a little bit about Barunga.

Dylan 32:21
So the Roomba is owned by volcanoes and lovely Lodge, and it overlooks what we call the Twin Lakes. So here you've got it is about an hour from the 40 minutes to an hour from the giraffe from the National Parks station where you start. But then there are entry points, the National Park which are quite close, so you don't necessarily you're going to do an hour either way. But you certainly will. In the morning, I would say this is very much on the same level as when you're from a good for five star entry, lovely big rooms, as I say amazing view good food, and it just a really good place to base yourself for the gorillas. From here, you can also do canoeing on the legs, you can go out on the boats, you know, there's a lot that can be done in this region. And I think we will talk about that just now about all the other activities beyond the gorillas. That can be done.

Mimi Lichtenstein 33:10
Absolutely. So where are we? We have one word. The other one and only Lodge which again, another stunning picture. It's just absolutely beautiful. What are all of the clearly it's surrounded by a lot of greenery? Are those any sort of like farming or is it all just plants.

Dylan 33:27
There's a lot of tea in the area, and coffee plantations in this particular area. And then obviously, you've got the forest here. And the forest is just absolutely incredible. As we spoke very briefly earlier on it, it's got quite a canopy walk, it's about 160 meters, it takes two hours, and you're walking approximately 70 meters high. So it's really above the tree line, some amazing, amazing views of the forest. And then the chance of seeing the colobus monkeys, you know, some of the smaller antelope that occur in this area. Again, this would be something that would be more of a chilled experience. So once you've done the gorillas, once you've done Akira, and you're just looking for something to just relax and have a few days out, you can go by road, it's a few hours drive, or it's about just under an hour helicopter from one and only volcanoes down to Norway.

Mimi Lichtenstein 34:19
Okay, we'll talk about helicopters in a minute. So let's touch on like you said some of the other things I mean, we have talked a little bit about you can go out canoeing, you can go out on boats, you can go you know do a boat Safari at some of the lodges. Obviously, we have the wild animals, what about some of the cultural experiences that you can have with the people?

Dylan 34:39
And I think that's so important, especially when it comes to one day. You know, you had this horrendous scale of violence unbelievable to men, you know, 2019 Sorry, I'm late 1994 To see how this. The population has grown and got over it is absolutely amazing. So you've After Genocide Memorial, which is well worth a visit in Kigali, you spend the day, you know, this day touring Kigali itself, there's some amazing markets and bearing. Bearing in mind, both men, women and children were killed during that genocide. But there were a lot of women as well, that's all young girls who have grown up with our parents. So there's a lot of women societies and operations that teach them and give them the means to support themselves and their children and their families. For example, out of one and only or any of the lodges in fact, up in volcanoes, you can go through to a coffee farm, you can do cupping, which is coffee tasting, you can see how the coffee is grown, harvested, etc. And that particular coffee operation is fully women owned and operated, which is a wonderful thing to see in that area as well. You can go for a walk through the villages, and you'd walk with one of the the liaison officers as they call them at any of the lodges. So it's not staged in any way. It's authentic, you know, you just stroll through the village, you chat to whoever may be and you know, the villages that again, are everywhere, no one, everyone is so welcoming and just want to share their lives with you. And I think what people must remember, this isn't poverty you're looking at this is folks living in a comfortable, traditional way of life. So they don't want you to feel sorry for them, they're happy there. So that's a wonderful experience canoeing on both legs is also river just outside of the volcanoes area that you can canoe on for folks who are interested in mountain biking, horseback riding, archery, all of that can be done out of Kigali. So there are a lot of activities that can be done there can be active. And don't forget, when we have ran the gorilla tracking, you can also do golden monkeys, which is also permits at $200 for the permits. And you also get up early in the morning, and you can go and track these golden monkeys, which is also great experience. So you know, that's an additional experience, you can of course track to Diana fossies Research Station, which is quite a trick but well worth it her grave. You know, there's so many active experiences that can be done.

Mimi Lichtenstein 37:04
Which my clients tend to love. So I always love knowing that there's lots of options. It's not just one thing that you're doing. Yeah, very much. Okay, so what about the good to know, logistics part of things we touched a little bit on the cost of what gorilla permits are the logistics of being there. Some people go into a gorilla check for one day? Some people go twice? What do you like to recommend to people?

Dylan 37:27
You know, again, it comes down to what people are folks are comfortable spending, you know, a lot of as because you're pretty much guaranteed to see them that one day experience is wonderful, though you've come all the way you know to have that. And if you can, I would always recommend do a second permit. And the reason for this is you could see the gorillas but they may be in a forested area with a heavy canopy. The light may not be good for photography, it may be in a thick area. So you know the gorillas, you can see them but they're moving around. So in my mind, I would always try and have a second permit. And in the hubs, you see a different family, different makeup, a family, maybe more babies, maybe a bigger Silverback, which is generally the older male. Ultimately, we want them out in the in the bamboo out in the open areas, when they're feeding, it's good light or photography, easy to see the animals. So that is important entry points is always Kigali. And most of the flights are arriving in the evening, as some of the flights that you're regional from Tanzania or Kenya, you can get sort of earlier in the day, I always say spend the night in Kigali. It's a vibrant city, there's wonderful local restaurants to go and see and experience again, the people are amazing. And you need time to go into the genocide, Memorial, the markets and then you drive up. It's only about a turn about a two and a half, three hour drive through one of the most beautiful countries for wonder, you know, means country of 1000 hills, and it certainly is, you know, it's undulating with all the coffee and tea plantations along the way. Potato Irish potatoes, so it's well worth the drive. And then you know, you can go from there. A lot of our guests will helicopter one which is also to see the country from the sky. You know, it's spectacular. I know you recently did one in Alaska and absolutely loved it.

Mimi Lichtenstein 39:12
Love it. Well, it's funny, it's like a dual purpose, right? It gets you there much more efficiently, quicker, but my gosh, to see all of this stunning landscape from above, you can't beat it. It's like its own excursion, even if it wasn't getting you somewhere. Yeah,

Dylan 39:27
very much so and what we do the lot what I love doing with our guests as we, you know, your first night in Kigali, and then you go down to Akira to my gushy by road, it's a two and a half hour drive but again, a beautiful drive and then have the helicopter pick you up from Akira and then fly you over to volcanoes and then do your do your gorilla trekking and then from the drive back into Kigali. So that's all fly back, whichever you want. You know, from a weight perspective, we always take care of the luggage so there's not nothing to worry about that we make sure that luggage you know, eat leaves earlier or hours later, whichever but certainly well worth doing. Helicopters are grades from a safety perspective what you know, there's we always make sure that the the company's it's owned by the government and properly taken care of. So no issues there.

Mimi Lichtenstein 40:14
Okay, good to know. And then what about weather and seasonality? What would you recommend as different times of the year

Dylan 40:21
and again, it's so difficult especially for the height, you know, your altitude that you're dealing with. So rain does come and go, I personally April and May are not the greatest month it is a rainy season. And then for some stuff, you know, often we finding rain in October at this time of the year. So those are sort of the three months that I personally like to avoid for our guests. Other than that, of course, your summer months are absolutely for both the gorillas as well as my GeSHI. And obviously from a pre and post, you know, whether you coming in from the Serengeti, or the Maasai Mara, those are the times of the year that it's so wonderful for those areas to so it really works well as a summer trip.

Mimi Lichtenstein 40:58
And then something that comes up in different countries in Africa, malaria, do people need to worry about that in Rwanda, if you're

Dylan 41:05
going straight into Kigali, and then straight up, it's not a big issue, certainly at that altitude. We do recommend though, when you're doing other areas, McAfee sort of low lying areas, is to take your malaria prophylaxis.

Mimi Lichtenstein 41:18
Okay. Good to know. And then he has a question. I think I know the answer to it. Have you ever had anybody go to Rwanda to see gorillas and be disappointed in the experience? Or is it one of those magical moments that you would you would expect it to be?

Dylan 41:33
It's one of those magical moments, you know, we get more. I've done it nine times now. And every time I've been obviously, I've been sometimes with our own guests, or sometimes with other folks that are part of the group traveling. And it's, we more often get tears of happiness and joy than anything else. It really is. It's a bucket list experience for so many people. And it certainly lives up to its reputation.

Mimi Lichtenstein 42:00
So nice to hear. I think that's what most people would think of when they're thinking about doing something like this. I mean, so far, he's on many people's bucket lists. And gorilla tracking is just, you know, sort of like one extra bonus. So before we go, let's just touch on real quick. You mentioned, you know, people coming from the Serengeti or other places, in an ideal world, would you say that there are a couple of countries that are great complement with a Rwandan gorilla tracking experience,

Dylan 42:26
I think and you know, it is opened up so that we could even include countries like Southern Africa or South Africa. So people who are doing a Botswana South Africa combo or Zimbabwe, Botswana, South Africa combo is a flight from Johannesburg into Kigali. It's about five hours. But you know, I've never been one to really encourage including, you know, doing an East Africa, Southern Africa combination. It's just too much. But certainly, if you're just going into see Rwanda, for the gorillas, definitely you could add it on from a southern Africa itinerary. It makes a lot of sense, of course, from Kenya or Tanzania, both of them, you know, you can be having you can have a game drive in the morning watching the migration in Tanzania, come back, have lunch and be in Kigali for the cocktail in the evening. Very easy to you know, fly to stop clear immigration and come customs at Monza. And then you hop over the lake and you're in Kigali. So you know, Tanzania and Kenya are the easiest and shortest connections, I would say, but certainly don't rely on Southern Africa.

Mimi Lichtenstein 43:26
Well, that's good information to know. I think so much of Safaris is about the logistics. It's not just about these spectacular places you can go stay it's about How frequently does the transportation get you there? And does it make sense to go from one place to another place in what order depending upon how amazing it is, you always want to end up in the best place. Exactly. So lots of great insights. And I so appreciate your time today. This has been delightful. And I'm looking forward to lots of people heading to Africa as the world opens back up again and having the opportunity to see some of these magical wildlife animals in their natural habitat. So thank you.

Dylan 44:03
It's an absolute pleasure. Mimi, thank you for hosting today. And we look forward to welcoming you to Rwanda. Yes. Well,

Mimi Lichtenstein 44:09
we'll get there one day for sure. And I'll see you in Kenya next year. For sure. Look forward to it. Alright, take care. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. If you enjoy today's show and don't want to miss an episode, you can subscribe and follow the show wherever you listen to your podcasts. And if you haven't already, I would really appreciate it if you can leave a rating and review to let me know what you think and to help others find adventures and luxury travel. I want your honest feedback so I can create a podcast that shares lots of insights to help travelers have more amazing adventures. Visit true Bay travel.com backslash podcast launch for step by step instructions on how to subscribe rate and review adventures in luxury travel today. See you next time. Thank you for listening to this episode of adventures and law luxury travel. If you want more travel tips go to tube a travel.com where you can sign up for our newsletter that shares more inspiring travel ideas around the world. See you here next week.