Adventures in Luxury Travel

Mimi Lichtenstein 0:01
If you're a traveler that believes luxury and adventure are not mutually exclusive, then you're in the right place. Every week I take you to a new destination with one of my partners sharing the hidden gems over the top experiences and active adventures to inspire your next family vacation. I'm Mimi Lichtenstein, an experienced Travel Advisor who has also traveled with my three teenagers and my husband around the world. Let's get started. Welcome to Episode 38 of adventures and luxury travel. Just a reminder, you can see the photos we talked about on the show and a full video on true Bay travel.com. Today Washa and I talk about Zambia. Zambia not only has the big five, but it also has water safaris and is the origin of walking Safaris. Its unique landscape includes the Zambezi River and Victoria Falls, one of the seven natural wonders of the world. This is a country that is ideal for combining a traditional safari with a lot of adventure activities. Visit Travie travel.com/ 38 for a video of today's show, and additional resources. Hello, everyone. I'm Mimi Lichtenstein, and today on Adventures in luxury travel. I am here with wotja Do a and I am delighted to have him on to talk about Zambia. Well, I shall Welcome to the show.

Washa 1:24
Thanks so much for having me. Me. Me. Good to be here.

Mimi Lichtenstein 1:26
Well, we're so happy to have you. I for one have never been to Zambia or sent any clients to Zambia. So I am here to learn a lot today along with our listeners and viewers. So we are lucky to have you because your family is from Botswana, you are well traveled growing up all over the world. And today we're going to just mine your your knowledge for everything about having an amazing safari in Zambia. Absolutely, yeah, let's maybe start with why why Zambia, most people if they're going on a first safari tend to go up to Kenya, Tanzania, maybe down to South Africa or Botswana. What's so special about Zambia, and why would somebody go there versus one of the other countries?

Washa 2:07
Yeah, that's a very good question. And let me start by saying I you know, I've always been biased being from Botswana, I've been going into fire since I was eight years old. And that was really kind of my bar was set very high being from Botswana with the having no fences and the plethora of animals. But then when you get to Zambia, you'll see the biodiversity of the species and you fear birder, if you want the big five, if you want a lot of adventure to with mostly atonia, the fall of Victoria Falls with several amazing national national parks and also Zambia, really being the home of walking safaris and canoeing safaris, there really is just is, you know, a limitless amount of adventure that you can do in Zambia, that a lot of countries, even East Africa, or you know, myself being from Botswana don't have. So it really is for the client, who whether you're a first timer or you're coming for repeat who wants to really get into into the wild.

Mimi Lichtenstein 3:04
Yeah. Well, and I do think there are a lot of people who sort of stop in to see Victoria Falls right from the Zambia or Zimbabwe side. But today, we're talking about staying for a longer and going out further into the country. So let's bring up the map. And could you walk through for the people who are watching or the people who might be listening on the podcast, the different big areas, the parks and where you might go?

Washa 3:26
Yeah, so of course, let's start with with the main cities, most of our clients will usually fly into soccer, which is the capital that was actually the original capital in Zimbabwe was actually living step when it became a country and then from there, they moved the capital up to to Lusaka. So those are gonna be your two main hubs where any of our clients will be flying into. Livingston is also the home of mostly atonia which is the original name of Victoria Falls. Now going from west to east we've got Lulu planes in terms of national parks and newer planes is in Bharati land and that was land from from the Lozi people so fingertip people from Kingdom and acres which is absolutely amazing. That's where the great Mike what the large second largest wildebeest migration happens and of course cofeb National Park and also what's the word busanga plains is as well and that is the largest national park in Kenya right there, just north of Livingston just west of Lusaka lower Zambezi, which is National Park which borders Zimbabwe and shares the Zambezi River is one of easily my favorite areas to go to because of the activities and I'm pretty sure we're gonna get into that soon. And then in the in the Far East, we've got a soft one but North Luangwa national parks, which are very famous, particularly I know, we'll be focusing a lot on South Luangwa today of these 100 Walking safaris, so you know there are multiple parks out through all throughout, you know, Zambia and Zambia is a little bit smaller than Texas. A lot of people don't know that. So it's a very large space with a lot of national parks have you to go through?

Mimi Lichtenstein 5:01
Yeah. And so we'll talk maybe at the end about, you know, an ideal timeframe if somebody does want to come and see Zambia, but I think it's hard for us Americans who oftentimes take a week off right for vacation to get to Africa. See it and come back. So you definitely need more time. If you if you're going to be heading over there for sure. Then we just have a few beautiful photos of the wildlife. You guys are lucky to have the big five in Zambia with you and obviously lots of stunning sunrises and sunsets as you could tell from this photo. Hippos are some the animal that's like super fascinating to me. I know we have I love this photo. Like, have you ever had any, let's say interesting or particularly dangerous hippo encounters.

Washa 5:45
How much time do you have? I wouldn't say any of them were dangerous. But you know one thing that you can really enjoy in Zambia on the Zambezi River again, I was talking about the mighty Zambezi it is the lifeblood of this area is canoeing, canoeing Safaris. And when you're doing that you are of course in the river with hippos and elephants and crocodiles and everything else. So we do you know, of course, try to stay away from the hippos and give them their space. But yeah, I've definitely had quite a few experiences with hippos being right next to them.

Mimi Lichtenstein 6:16
Okay, well, that must be exhilarating, quite honestly, to be so close to a hippo and a little tiny. kayak or canoe, I guess. Yeah.

Washa 6:24
Thank God for amazing guides. Yeah.

Mimi Lichtenstein 6:27
And so just out of curiosity, I was in where it was I South Carolina last year, near a very, very large alligator. And it opened up its mouth wide, is about, you know, almost as wide as this. And I learned later that was actually an aggressive tactic. Is that the same with hippos? Or is he just have a big yawn going on right now

Washa 6:45
is a bit of sharing, you know, showing their teeth and their dominance, you know, they're very, very territorial males, and usually one male will have a pot of female. So they've always got to be on the lookout for other males. So it's showing their teeth gritting their teeth and really showing their dominance.

Mimi Lichtenstein 7:00
Okay, well, they're, you know, beautiful, but obviously,

Washa 7:03
yes, go back, that is something we need to talk about as the Wild Dog population. Now, you know, a lot of people always talk about the Big Five, and they are amazing, of course, elephant, Rhino, LION, LEOPARD and buffalo. But none of people talk about the Wild Dog populations. And if you're going to go to especially places like South longa, you know, to me, it's like the biggest appeal of seeing Safari animals is to go see wild dogs. And so you know, they're massive packs, you can find things in Zambia. And if you're lucky to spend time with the pack, that's, that's a bucket list item.

Mimi Lichtenstein 7:37
It is. Yeah, it is funny, right, because maybe they're smaller, so they're just not as revered as some of the bigger animals. But how many of them are in a pack

Washa 7:45
that other packs can vary? Actually, they can get quite large, the largest pack I've ever seen was about 30. Oh, wow. And actually, as much as we love to give our credit to lions and leopards, wild dogs have the highest success rate for hunting than any other any other predator in Africa.

Mimi Lichtenstein 8:02
So I imagine you've probably seen some of that inaction.

Washa 8:05
Absolutely. I saw actually, I've seen two wild dog kills in many. We're both in Botswana. And it was true something to watch, because they're hunting styles are very different than the US the pack mentality of coordination and tactics when they're hunting. So and they have to feed you know, 3030 of their family members. So you pretty much do a kill, eat everything and then get right back on.

Mimi Lichtenstein 8:28
And what were the animals they were hunting. They

Washa 8:32
can take down a lot, but I saw them tick down a bushbuck once and then it wasn't it was an eland. No, it was a kudu actually.

Mimi Lichtenstein 8:40
Very cool. Yeah. And then rhinos.

Washa 8:43
Yes. So this particular photo is actually in mostly a tuna National Park. And this is right close to our camp thorntree River Lodge. And this is actually one of the only three national parks in the world where the rhinos are protected. 24 hours a day, these are white rhino. And they're protected 24 hours a day by the Rangers does that mean community is absolutely amazing. And they've done such amazing work and gone to really far lengths to revitalize their, their endangered species populations. So this is one of the areas you can go to and actually track White Rhino with Rangers, and it's just absolutely amazing. So it's is really one of those things when you go to the falls that you really, really must do, because you can't as easily see rhinos in other areas. So this is when I can almost guarantee you.

Mimi Lichtenstein 9:27
Okay, well, that's a good reason to go to Zambia. Yes. And then the beautiful picture of a lion cub.

Washa 9:35
Then this is over in Lua plains, which is very famous for its large predators. A lot of people who've never seen a lion probably can't tell, but those lions are actually quite fat for their age. And this is one of the beauties of being up in these areas where there's a ton of prey for them and not a lot of predators and competition. So the animals out here can get quite big.

Mimi Lichtenstein 9:57
Well, it's interesting because a few weeks ago, I was doing To show on Namibia, and seen the desert adapted lions and how much skinnier they are. And I think it was the elephants too, that had like really, really skinny legs because they just are not gonna get as much deed as these guys, these guys look much healthier. Absolutely. And okay, tell us about this guy walking with the two lions

Washa 10:19
man, the myth, the legend. This is Norman Carr. He became very famous in the early 1900s. He was the warden of the longbow national parks. What really made him famous. And those are his his two pet lions. It's big boy and little boy that he raised from cubs and walk with them everywhere. Norman Carr was really one of the first people to really convince the committee's in the area that preserving the wildlife and their wildlife areas was in their best interest. And so he really, you know, took a lot of time and became famous for working with the communities to turn on their heirs into conservation areas that they could actually benefit from, whether that was for hunting, especially in his day hunting and tourism to photographic tour, safaris were not popular, it was really a lot of hunting. So and obviously, a lot of the tribes in these areas also hunted. So he was really one of the big converters into into photographic safaris and not just for Zambia, but for the whole region. But he is of course, also known as being the founder of walking safaris as well

Mimi Lichtenstein 11:22
wow. You know, it's for people like him that we have the fortune of being able to see many of these animals still today right when they began all information efforts long ago.

Washa 11:33
Absolutely. Norman Carr working with the communities and the tribes who knew animals you know, as well as he did really did make really did find ways to bond the communities and the different tribes to show that they're the wealth that they had within their the flora and fauna in their communities. And how to not only benefit from that financially, but also to preserve their their their environments as well.

Mimi Lichtenstein 11:58
Okay, now we transition to the absolute stunning Victoria Falls, which I know goes by Mr. Original name. You say it better than me. Yes.

Washa 12:07
Mostly atonia. Mostly, oh, atonia means smoke that thunders that is the original name of the falls. And actually, if you're in Zambia, it is called mostly attorney National Park, we say mostly atonia. If you're in Zimbabwe, it is of course, Victoria Falls. Same one being from Botswana, I use mostly up to use the traditional name, this is a must. I know a lot of people will come to the to the falls and kind of think within Zimbabwe or Zambia and say, well, that's that's enough for me, we've done enough of Zambia, but this is just the beginning, or the end, depending on how you're doing your itinerary. But there's so much to do here.

Mimi Lichtenstein 12:42
I mean, it's it you and I were talking before, it's like an adventure capital of Africa, you know, similar to Queenstown and New Zealand, these falls just have this draw for being active and adventure activities.

Washa 12:56
Absolutely. I mean, there's so much to see here. There's so much history, that tribes in the area, there's a ton of restaurants, I mean, you can come out here easily for for three to four days and enjoy. But of course, being the North American market, we don't have that much time.

Mimi Lichtenstein 13:11
And so this is an aerial shot of I think the falls, right?

Washa 13:14
Yes, yes, indeed, that's coming up from the Zambian side. But a lot of people don't know is that the best time to visit the falls, especially if you want to go and do activities like visiting devils pool, which I think we'll see soon is coming when the falls are dry between the months of July to December, but when at its height when we're about to approach rainy season is in the falls, you can feel you can see the mist from right before you even hear the falls. And that's actually where I can we can't smoke that thunders. If you can't see them, but you can hear them and it feels like it's raining. But it's actually just the mist from the falls falling on top of you.

Mimi Lichtenstein 13:51
You know what else I learned? I've been to Niagara Falls, right? Big American thing to do. Big impressive. Took my kids amazing. These are twice as tall. Yeah.

Washa 14:02
Yeah. The only thing that I've ever been to that can really compete with this is the GWAS who falls in Brazil. Of course, that is the widest falls in the world. But this is truly an experience. And I think, you know, both sides give a lot of credit to both Zimbabwe and Zambia, how they have allowed clients on either side of the falls to have similar experiences, whether it's, you know, again, as we've said before, very active or serene, you know, it really is the lifeblood of

Mimi Lichtenstein 14:29
and we'll dive into some of those fun experiences in a few minutes. Yes, right. So here's an example of an active experience to do which is not available in every country when you're going on safari to just hop out in a canoe and go paddle along and see some elephants. So where was this one taken? Do you remember?

Washa 14:46
Yes, this is in this on the Zambezi River. This is in lower Zambezi national park you can always tell because there's not a lot of places that you can go canoeing in Africa especially like this in deep waters. So we are back on the mighty Zambezi. This is From the falls and you know, this water is quite deep. This is unlike doing more corals in Botswana where the water could just be a few feet deep. It can be a few meters deep here, so you know you will be in the water with elephants, hippos, crocodiles, will, you know be seen birds and everything in between. So it's an amazing mix of adrenaline filled activities and also being very serene of being on the water and

Mimi Lichtenstein 15:26
fire, you know, not in a safari vehicle that's not electric. And I noticed here there's a couple baby elephants, is there a particular time of year where you might see more baby elephants?

Washa 15:37
Actually, no, all year round. This is how the Zambezi is going to be in obviously, in wetter months, then there'll be more spread up because there's more there's more water and then drier months, of course, there'll be more concentrated but once we're on the river, you know, you will see them because there'll be a long river.

Mimi Lichtenstein 15:55
This is just like wide open spaces. For those people listening. It's a picture of it almost just looks like a big Delta, with a couple people kayaking along in what looks like inflatable kayaks, which makes me a little nervous if there's hippos around.

Washa 16:07
Well, that is the beauty of Lulu. Lulu pains, which is the the National Park I showed in the west of the country has no hippos. So we can luckily got in this area and we can kayak we actually then this is seasonal kayaking when the rains come in, which is right around now. It's coming up right now. So you know, this is one of those areas where we've got a mix of woodlands and amazing plains. And you can kayak you know, through these planes when the west the rains come in just absolutely fantastic.

Mimi Lichtenstein 16:36
It looks just so stunning. And of course traditional safaris going out in Safari vehicles. How many of the properties that you work with in Zambia have moved to electric vehicles? Are they in the process of doing that? Or what's the status on

Washa 16:52
Actually no, none of our properties have chosen to do that yet. We're still sticking with gas and using Land Cruisers. It is up some that is coming up. We are seeing especially in places like Botswana with the likes of CIOB game Lodge and a few other camps who are are actually using electric vehicles and boats. But we've not chosen to done that over on our side yet. One of the issues with that is especially because we have such large areas of land electric vehicles right now can't cover as much.

Mimi Lichtenstein 17:17
You don't want to get stuck out there. There's no There's no Tesla chargers in the middle of the day.

Washa 17:23
And then you got to do a forced walking safari.

Mimi Lichtenstein 17:26
Okay, so here's kind of an aerial view of what you were talking about the second largest wildebeest migration.

Washa 17:32
Yes, indeed, this is actually what I am hoping to take my father on next year. I'm very excited and hope he should be too. But this is the second largest wilderness migration in Africa, which takes place through a plane that actually I spoke to one of my one of my friends with time and tide yesterday, and he says the the the the Willoughby's have actually arrived. So they're done at camp or they arrived about a week ago or two weeks ago. But the beauty of this is that you know, it's an by no means in comparing it with Kenya or Tanzania, we don't have the numbers of Kenya Tanzania, nor do we try to disturb you try to compare themselves this is 10s of 1000s rather than hundreds of 1000s. But with course with the will to beast that does of course bring all of the predators, birds and all the types of species and of course with with the will the bees coming, that's also an indicator that it's calving season. So there's gonna be a lot of activity that we're going to find what that migration

Mimi Lichtenstein 18:24
so fun. And I love maps if migrations I have one of the other wildebeest migration in the UK, Kenya, Tanzania. So you have one for Zambia's. So essentially, they make a nice little looks like not figure eight pattern it's more of a I don't know what you would call that. But what do you call that?

Washa 18:40
Yeah, if the eight if it never crossed. Make it look like a gorgeous upside down chord. And

Mimi Lichtenstein 18:47
they're always moving right they're just moving moving,

Washa 18:49
always moving. Yeah, yeah. And it's not in such large concentrations as we'll find in East Africa, you know that you will have kind of your pockets of them but they are moving throughout the year. And then the through Lua plated is one of the you know, Zambia is very seasonal. That's another thing a lot of people should understand about Zambia. So of course there are some places that you can go all year round. But Lua plan for example, is only open from October until April. So the best time to come to see that migration or kind of towards more march in February and also October and November.

Mimi Lichtenstein 19:23
Okay, that's great to know. Thank you fishing. I have a son who loves to fish so going out fishing while we're on a safari would be super fun. And again not available everywhere. whitewater rafting. I have three teenagers and college kids always fans and we did it in Alaska this summer wearing dry suits because the water was social. I imagine it looks like the water here is a little bit warmer but it looks like I don't know what kind of class rapids are are in Zambia Do you know

Washa 19:49
I'm not sure the class of rapids but I you know I've seen the river rafters do this over at mostly atonia going down by big falls and it's very Famous it's very very popular to go do this a lot of people I've never personally gone and done it yet more so enjoy it from from above, but I'll probably can get convinced on my next trip to go be a during the river rapids and all these types of experiences again of the type of amazing experience you can enjoy when you're in Livingston at the falls.

Mimi Lichtenstein 20:19
Yeah, and I love the faces of people that we have a shot like this from our trip, right? You're either like scared to death or you have like a big grin on your face.

Washa 20:27
Either or so I will stick to the fishing and the sundowner cruises.

Mimi Lichtenstein 20:32
Right so we're coming to sundowner cruise for those people who don't want to go on the treacherous Whitewater. Yeah, so chill on a sundowner cruise at the end of the day having a cocktail and it would be so peaceful.

Washa 20:43
Absolutely, you know between the sundowner cruise and the fishing those are two of my favorite experience to do on the Zambezi and at multiple points. Especially if you have you know, competitive fishers anglers that you know you're looking for brim Tiger fish, or which is a kind of a Zambezi cat fish. So there's plenty to catch here. So you can either just be sipping on your champagne or your or your Zambezi beer, or you can be fishing or pics of both. And are they edible fish? Yes, yeah, we will do catch and release for most of these areas. Because of again, we are in national parks. And we don't have licenses to catch into cook. But of course, you know, we'll catch and release just for the competitive side of it. But only when you get back to your camp or your hotel. They've got plenty of seafood ready for it?

Mimi Lichtenstein 21:28
Well, we still have maybe about five pounds left of the halibut and king salmon that we caught in Alaska this summer. And it's super fun to just think about your trip after you get back. But all right. So this is on my personal bucket list. Because it's so fun and adventurous. It's definitely not for everybody. It's a very small flying machine that goes up in the air over the falls.

Washa 21:52
I've actually not done micro lighting yet. I've personally and if anyone's ever seen Top Gear, when in Botswana when they were driving through Botswana, and then president, former president in common landed in the mahogany pans with his microlight ever since then, I wanted to do it. So I'm going to do it in depends on Botswana. But I would love to do it actually in Zambia and do it over the falls. I just think this is the most amazing experience.

Mimi Lichtenstein 22:16
I mean, it just looks like you know, you're flying. I mean, what a very cool experience. I think for my son's birthday, his best friend's mom and I gave them hang gliding lessons. Place about an hour from us. I'm a big fan of experiences for presidents all went well. So I think he would be gained to do this with me.

Washa 22:36
Yes, between that. And also for clients who are a little bit you know, a bit more skittish about Mark lighting, you can also do the helicopter flips or poke fun of the angels, which is a really great experience to do that for people that want to be on the ground, especially for families doing things like this ATV through the National Parks is really fun as well. These aren't, you know, major Safari areas in terms of the wildlife, there's a lot safer. So it's, it's very easy for you to take the little ones out and do experiences like this.

Mimi Lichtenstein 23:04
So fun. And they have little mini ATVs. And drive around. I mean, how great is that. And then love this. So this is the devil's pool.

Washa 23:14
This is the devil's pool. Yes, it is a natural pool on the edge of the falls that you can go to so clients can come over here. And you can jump in the falls and jump in the pool for about 15 to 20 minutes and get your photo and then keep it moving because obviously going to people are going to be people behind you. But it is one of those experiences that if you're going to come to the Zambian side of the falls that you must do. I've actually multiple times given up my seat so other people could go but I think next time I get back to the falls, that will not be happening because I don't have my photo of it yet.

Mimi Lichtenstein 23:47
And so tell me it looks as we look at this photo, like two three feet behind these people, it drops off however many feet below them. That is correct.

Washa 23:59
It's absolutely correct hundreds of feet down to the bottom to the to the rapids that we showed below a booth we showed previously. So you know, I know it does look a little bit scary. And this is why of course we want to do this when the water is low. So between July and December is when you want to do it when it's actually accessible. And you can easily walk over to a little island and then from there, the gods will take you to go take your photo in the pool.

Mimi Lichtenstein 24:24
So fun. Well, everyone's looking for a good Instagram photo.

Washa 24:27
So exactly.

Mimi Lichtenstein 24:29
So sundowners are obviously a big tradition on Safari. And I think this one might be in a riverbed that's dry. Is that right?

Washa 24:38
Yes, absolutely. So this is actually in South Milan was well and this is one thing we love to do in Africa. In general, if we can use the riverbed we will but especially in South Luangwa, when the seasons change over the drier seasons and our river beds are empty. We'll actually go and do dining in the riverbeds and you know the setup everything for our clients. It's absolutely amazing. We might have a few visitors, perhaps some hyena or something that have summoned the food all perfectly safe. We've got our scouts and our guides and our chefs around us. But it's really a perfect way to enjoy being out on the bush and really kind of connecting with nature in a way that you won't really get to do. And the funny thing is, if you want to come back, say in, you know, in q1 of this year, kind of right around now, these reds will be completely full. And then we're going to swap out the dining for boats, and we're gonna go fishing.

Mimi Lichtenstein 25:30
So that means you have to go twice, because you want to go during those seasons. Right, exactly. And then we always like to talk about interesting people, you can meet on a trip, a lot of times that's wrapped up in the culture. So I have a few photos of some examples that you shared with me, you want to tell us a little bit about what they're doing in this photo?

Washa 25:49
Yeah, well, these are all this is the Tonga tribe in from lower Zambezi that are doing a traditional UV ceremony. I forget which one this exactly is, but this goes to speak to about, you know, there's 70 Different tribes in Zambia, speaking, you know, 70 or more languages. Some of them are traditional chaps, only from Zambia, some of them are mixed that I'm going to show some others. But it really, you know, as much as people think about when they ask about tribes in Africa, a lot of times they're actually thinking of the Maasai and the Samburu and up in East Africa, but even myself, I'm a Columbia, from Botswana, and we're in Botswana and Zimbabwe, but all these tribes are, you know, are quite related. And the history of them is very, very diverse, and very, very different. And you know, it really, in Zambia, specifically, you'll find that the even you know, your guides at this, you know, your guides and the staff at the camps, even anyone you meet in the city say in Lusaka, they will tell you what tribe they are, they'll tell you what kind of what the differences are, whether their traditional dress or dress, you know, like myself, right now, they are very much into their tribes, especially if you go to say Baratza land, with the Lozi people who have actually for several years right here, yes, thank you. And you know, they're great king king, lower Nika who actually the great grandson, who's now the king right now, you know, they've got an amazing stories, and actually the original Kingler when Nika, you know, worked with Stanley Livingstone, and actually, sadly, live lived with him, or lived in burrata land for many for many months. So really learning about the tribes is very important, it's not going to be the same as when you're in Kenya and Tanzania, because we are not, you know, they're not living all in the bush, for example. But it is really important to just learn about the different cultural systems between each of the tracks.

Mimi Lichtenstein 27:31
And I think for many of us, and many of the families that I work with, to send all over the world, I mean, learning about the history and the culture. And all of that is such a big part of the trip, right? It's not just a quote unquote, vacation, it's educational, and opportunities to connect with people who have had a completely different, you know, life and world experience. Going to see these tribes and meet them and talk with them is such a big part of the experience, I think that has such an impact on people when they go

Washa 28:02
totally, and these are actually in gonee people from Guatemala. And they are I was just in South Carolina a couple months ago. And I'd say of all the tribes in terms of who really want to show you who they are and everything and, and tell you their stories. When you go to fully when you go to the one where area you're in everyone is pretty much gone. And and they're just such colorful people, they are so fun. And you just whether they're in traditional dress, or they're just, you know, in their work clothes and everyday clothes, you have to go and hang out with some new people and just enjoy some time with them.

Mimi Lichtenstein 28:37
Yeah, and so I know when we were talking to get ready for today, we talked a little bit about bringing in some of the histories, yes, for all of the people who are listening who might not have any idea about the history of Zambia. So tell us about this gentleman who is in a very proper, you know, suit and top hat. Who was who is he?

Washa 28:56
This is Qinglin when Nika first so his great grandson is actually now also the king of regen dump barotse land so that when you can actually means conquer. He, like I said, When Stanley came to Zambia, he actually was living in his territory and Qinglin when Nika was one of the people that actually started to allow the British to come into Zambia, when it was still not even Zambia at the time to actually do mining in the areas and when it actually became a British protectorate years later. It was because of kings and great rulers like King Lear when Nika that really have shaped Zambia the way it is now.

Mimi Lichtenstein 29:32
Well, I mean, I love the photo because he just looks so very

Washa 29:36
Yeah, so he was visiting Scotland and

Mimi Lichtenstein 29:41
he looks very official. All right, well, we always like to talk about over the top ideas and helicopters and hot air balloons always seem to make the list. Not every country for safaris is a place where you can do a hot air balloon but Zambia is one of them. So what what say you about going up in a in a hot air balloon should people do it?

Washa 29:58
Absolutely. Absolutely. There's not a lot of places in southern Africa that you can do the hunter ballooning over and over over the wildlife. So this is actually out in California National Park and one of the few places that can do it's actually this operator is very special. So I think it is an absolute must. If you've done it in Kenya, Tanzania. Great. Come and do it with us down in Zambia.

Mimi Lichtenstein 30:20
Yeah, well, we're doing it in Kenya when we go this summer. So I'm a fan. I think I'm gonna do it again. Another example, take a helicopter. I'm also a big fan of helicopters. And then accommodation. So you know, all of these countries have such beautiful properties that whether they be attended camp or you know, real walls and a roof are absolutely spectacular. And Zambia is no different. So you sent me a good collection of fun photos, and I had fun, you know, going through them because we can't show 1000 photos. So let's start with this one. Tell us a little bit about this one.

Washa 30:55
Yes, this is thorntree River Lodge, which is owned by African bush camps. One of my clients have visited MOSI OA tunya National Park. This is easily one of my favorite lodges actually in Africa backs and lo who the owner of African bush camps design this and I will personally tell you what everyone was listening, I have probably bumped backs at least 10 times to live here. So much so that we're actually I'm trying to design my next house to be like, over lunch. It has beautiful views looking out onto the Zambezi River, each room has their own personal butler the photo up showed earlier the sundowner cruise, this was actually taken from here. So it's an ideal location to come for a few nights either to start or end your trip here at Thorn Tree. And really just take in the sights, we don't need to go on safari every day, we can do the rhino tracking, do all the other activities we mentioned in the falls. And really also just relax which is the key activity we call it DNA do nothing at all.

Mimi Lichtenstein 31:50
Oh, love that. Again, here's a beautiful example of I don't know if it's a sunset or a sunrise. But it's spectacular.

Washa 31:58
Yes, this is chin Zombot, which is one of our luxury properties with time and tide Safaris. This is in the south of the one where I was very lucky to be out here in August of last year. It is one of our premier camps. It's very small, it's only six rooms and is right across actually the river from the National Park. So as you can see, with this open design, it's really designed for you to take in everything whether you're in your room, or you're relaxing in the main areas, you're always looking at onto the river onto the National Park. And I will say when I came here on the first day of Safari that morning, within about 25 minutes, I saw 10 Lion, and I saw 14 Lion within about an hour. So that was absolutely fantastic.

Mimi Lichtenstein 32:42
Well, I selected four photos from it, because there's so many beautiful photos. So if that tells you. And this was one of the ones where I said to you seriously like it's so stunning. This is a picture of the night sky with people sitting around a fire pit on the river, having a sundowner like, is there anything better?

Washa 33:02
No, not really, this is why this is my job. And to mention that we also will drive through the National Park and then we'll cross the river by boat which takes about 30 seconds. And then once you arrive, you know you'd be welcomed by the team with a cocktail, they'll likely these singing and welcoming songs take you to your rooms very quickly. And then you know you're going to be eating out here underneath the stars. It's absolutely fantastic.

Mimi Lichtenstein 33:26
Right, I just want to Safari for the rest of my life. That's all like, yes. And this next one I love because my teenagers remind me of the importance of the golden hour in terms of taking photos, you can call that this is during the golden hour because that golden sun is just reflecting into the Safari. You know, this is kind of a thatched hut room, it looks like tell us a little bit. This isn't

Washa 33:50
Genja this is actually only about an hour away from chin Zombot further up the river. And as you can see from the photo, the water is actually high here. Remember, we were done longer earlier in the dry river beds. So this is what it would look like when the water is up. The beauty of this camp is it's actually a seasonal camp. We have four of these inside the wineglass so they're at a lower price point. But the whole idea is that you can actually walk from camp to camp we actually have the automatised is the only full walking circuit in Zambia. And so all these camps range for about two and a half to three and a half to four hours to walk between. And the beauty of them is unlatch and Zombo, which is permanent open all year round. These are seasonal camps. We actually construct them in four weeks, keep them for the season and then deconstruct them in another four weeks. Wow.

Mimi Lichtenstein 34:36
Okay. I knew they were seasonal, but I didn't realize that you took the entire thing down Well that gives you a little bit of an idea about what the what it's made of right so

Washa 34:44
Exactly, exactly as a lot of fashion other grass, they're absolutely amazing.

Mimi Lichtenstein 34:48
And then here people are just having some orange juice while there's an elephant right in front of them.

Washa 34:53
That is the standard on and long in the long run will always have animals coming through. And this will also be noted you know what the Big differences for South Africa versus a lot of these countries that you know, that we've mentioned today, and particularly Zambia is that we have no fences, that the fences are not like South Africa, the animals will be walking through, they can easily walk through camp. And that is part of the experience. So we want them to have these up close and personal experiences without the fear of you know, any possible danger.

Mimi Lichtenstein 35:22
And that helps me remember at some camps with kids in particular, like they have a minimum age because to go from your room to breakfast, for example, you could encounter a lion or something do any of these camps have minimum ages? So it's actually quite

Washa 35:37
funny. In Zambia, their strictness about minimum ages is not as strict as other countries. So what reason for that is mainly because a lot of clients who come to Zambia and bring their children the children have likely Safari before and so they actually know a little bit better what to do. You know, I always say my dad took me on my first safari at eight years old the age should be your your kind of your starting place. So at any of these camps that we should we actually allow kids at any age to any of our camps with time and time. But there's a will be certain activities that the children can't do based on their age. So you can start doing things like the canoeing and stuff like this around 16. But activities like this we see here, and that's, I believe, Chris Liebenberg right there is in Chun way I can tell that he's the driver, and we can bring kids on this and I've actually gone out with Chris's children who are like nine and 10. So we went fishing together. And hippo infested waters.

Mimi Lichtenstein 36:32
Yeah, you're fishing with London, the five little five little five big chubby hippos swimming by Yes.

Washa 36:37
Isn't Chong Wei was our camp out in the lower Zambezi. And this is the beauty of it. We've got three amazing styles of accommodation here. We've got Chun Wei tented camp that what you're seeing right here is the suites is a runway suites. So these ones come with your own dining staff, your own private pool, fireplace Wi Fi, and beautiful as you can see tent looking onto those Zambezi River. So this place is also known as the land of giants. You will have a lot of elephants walking through camp. There Yes, there is. Yep. I personally couldn't go to my room multiple times because the elephants kept on walking by my bedroom. And I had to wait. So you know, that's what you have to do sometimes. But this is actually Chung way house. And if you can guess you go back even one photo. One of the jokes with it is that it looks a little bit like a Flintstones house.

Mimi Lichtenstein 37:29
It does, but it's so beautiful lit up at nighttime like that, right?

Washa 37:34
Yeah, this is an exclusive use house for eight to 10 people when I was there, there was actually a whole family from toddlers up to grandparents. And one of the most interesting thing is here. And we have our own private dining staff here your own activities, everything is fully just catered for them. As well as having two elephants that are resident elephants just for Changbai house.

Mimi Lichtenstein 37:54
Oh, goodness.

Washa 37:56
They love the they loved some of the fruits around here. So they will always be around.

Mimi Lichtenstein 38:00
Awesome. And how far is this from the regular attention camp?

Washa 38:04
Oh, about a two minute drive. Oh, super close. Yes, rockin? Well, quite close, but still separated.

Mimi Lichtenstein 38:09
I just can't imagine sitting next to the pool right there and have the elephant coming up to maybe grab some of those leaves or say hello?

Washa 38:17
Yeah, what better time to have a one on one with an elephant.

Mimi Lichtenstein 38:20
Yeah, what's fun and this I love this photo. Because it's such a contemporary, obviously, there's, you know, the difference between that camp that you just mentioned, that was seasonal, that they're putting up and taking down and has a thatched roof. And this camp is very drastic. And so that's why it's so good to have a conversation before you go on safari. What kind of fields you want to have in your lodging because they vary so greatly and this one is super contemporary and cool.

Washa 38:46
Yes. And of course named after King. Hello, Nika. This property is in in the Lozi kingdom in rasilla, in lower plane. And you know, the beauty of this pretty much lection Zombo is that it's the open face plan that everything will look like onto the planes. This is our family suite, of course, we actually only have six of these. So it's a lot of a lot of space. And we actually the only permanent camp in all of Lulu plane. So we're very, very lucky to have that experience. And you know, it's quite funny. We have a lot of clients who will call and say, Well, why don't you have a pool here like we have it shouldn't Zombo but what we've actually done is has his own has a kings pool, which he has given us permission to use for fishing and actually also for swimming. Remember I said we don't have any hippo crocodile over here. So we can easily jump into the pools and use natural pools to swim in, which I think is personally also a really just very different experience. That is, you know, people will love it. They get a little bit skittish at first until they understand that there's no predators and and then don't jump in. You know, a lot of times when we have our pools at the other camps, you might use it only once. But if we tell you we're going to take it to the kids pool, then I guarantee you're going to jump in

Mimi Lichtenstein 39:57
agreed and I live in New Hampshire so We're big fans of like jumping on rope swings into the Connecticut River. So my kids will be right there in the Kings pool for sure. Although I will say like if you go someplace and you see all these hippos swimming, and then you go somewhere else, and like, No, there's no hippos like, Are you sure? Maybe you didn't there when you weren't looking. And then another stunning evening photo with a gorgeous night sky and a firepit?

Washa 40:20
Absolutely, just absolutely gorgeous.

Mimi Lichtenstein 40:23
Yeah. So lots of opportunities for gorgeous photos wherever you go, as well. And so here's the map of what you were saying about being able to walk from camp to camp. Tell us about sort of logistically, who does this. And how does it work?

Washa 40:36
Yeah, so you know, a lot of the camps, of course, in Zambia, we'll have walking guides. And for us, when we go for a walk, you'll go with your group, as well as with your guide, and a scout and kind of a number three, who's essentially like a tea bearer, who's going to be carrying all of our, our treats and our drinks and everything, kind of a little picnic basket as well. So when we do stop, we'll set that up for our little siesta or a little tea break, or amarilla. And tea, if you're with me, and and we'll enjoy the walk. So when I did my walk in August, I stayed at Cooley, which is, of course, the most Southwestern southeastern property right there. And I did, I didn't have enough time to walk from camp to camp, I was that was on a bit of a rush. But we did a three, a two and a half hour walk. And that was about seven and a half kilometers. So the beauties of these walks is that you can stay at one camp and just walk in your area. But what a lot of clients will do is they'll walk from camp to camp. Yeah, that is absolutely fantastic. And even when I did my walk, when I got back, there was some clients from Louis, which is, of course, the most firm for this West property, which has some of the longest walks. And they actually had walked all the way pretty close to kukuli, which was a it was about a six hour walk. They did very, very impressed by them, because they were older Germans. And then they had lunch and had a bit of a break at Cooley. And then they drove back via Game Drive.

Mimi Lichtenstein 41:58
Wow, that's a great idea. Absolutely. So clients

Washa 42:01
can figure out how to mix and match this with walking game drives and even seasonal about it. But when you're out here, you definitely want to take time to do at least one or two walks of at least three hours.

Mimi Lichtenstein 42:13
Absolutely. And I think the idea it's like had to hiking in Switzerland, right? It's just fun to go from place to place rather than like feeling like the, you know, the drive is not part of the fun of it. Right? You're out there walking and seeing things and getting exercise. I love the idea. So here's a fun photo of you. I think you called a star bed. So I'm more familiar with the more luxury star beds. Three pointed tent that's floating in the arrow. Tell us about that. Yes,

Washa 42:43
a deed. So these are this is with time and tide. And these are called our signature sleep outs. So at all the different types of type camps our clients have the option to sleep out in, as you can see a sleeping sleeping tent, like this

Mimi Lichtenstein 42:57
one. Now, do people just throw their kids out there in these or do they actually do it themselves? Oh, no,

Washa 43:03
I actually went out there with kids. So I went out there with a group and the nine and 10 year old I'd mentioned earlier and they were perfectly fine. I'm six foot three.

Mimi Lichtenstein 43:11
Okay, and so you could have the kids that sleep out there and then if you as adults don't want to sleep in this tent, you could just sleep in the normal room.

Washa 43:20
Yes, absolutely. So what we'll do is we'll keep the camp will keep your tent and camp off for you while you're out here. So usually, you know if you're going to do to next we'll add on a night so they can do this experience and we'll go on just with the group. It's 275 a person you know God with the scout. So you got with your guide, usually to guides as well as one so we can keep it Nightwatch as well as a chef. And so we'll do our game drive up here and we'll have dinner and drinks and do some stargazing. Jump into your tent when you're ready to go to bed and wake up in the morning we will have breakfast and we do also have a particular this one we have a shower and a toilet as well. And then when breakfast is done, we'll take a game drive back to camp.

Mimi Lichtenstein 44:04
Crazy. That sounds super fun now,

Washa 44:07
very very fun. Not for the faint of heart. But I say you know in lieu of plain and lower Zambezi we use these tents. And then in South Luangwa we also use the tents in the riverbed Okay, absolutely gorgeous. So

Mimi Lichtenstein 44:21
and imagine so this is all as you can see see through so when you're laying in bed at night in your tent looking up at the sky through this netting would be just magical.

Washa 44:33
is absolute magic done again. Yeah, that's the photo from doing it over and lower plane just absolutely gorgeous. It truly is magical. I really would suggest that any client whether you're doing a tree house asleep out assemblage asleep up, you name it, do it it is definitely worth it. Even if you get a little bit skittish, you know there's it's perfectly safe. The guides are always going to be around and you know your safety is their biggest priority. So yeah, it's just an absolutely amazing experience.

Mimi Lichtenstein 45:00
Out of curiosity, do they? Are these all single person floating tents? Are any of them doubles?

Washa 45:06
These actually doubles? Oh, it isn't, why not? Yeah, so these are actually doubled and actually on a bit of an incline. So when you come in, no one will actually come and down to the middle, I discovered so but if you don't like and again, perfect example, these are the photos of the ones in the south of the long block that will use with sleeping beds so we can fit two people in. But if you don't like your partner, then it's

Mimi Lichtenstein 45:30
okay, or you just might not want to sleep in such close quarters with your partner. And again, this is another gorgeous night sky. And clearly the guide here has some astronomy knowledge and he's pointing out different stars in the constellation,

Washa 45:43
which is the funnest thing to do is to do astrology and do just stargazing out here with a simple as laser pointer with a drink in your hand. And just seeing everything that the universe has to offer the southern hemisphere.

Mimi Lichtenstein 45:56
Yeah, literally everything the universe has to offer. So this, I think, is a photo of Lusaka, where majority of people would probably fly in and out of if they were coming to Zambia. Is there anything momentous in Lusaka to see or what's your thought on that?

Washa 46:11
Yes. So most clients, when they're going to come to Lusaka, will likely spend one or two nights usually one, I find most clients if they want to spend time in the cities of Zambia, they're going to spend more time in Livingston. Okay. But with that said, Lusaka, is a bustling city for people who want to know a lot about also during, of course, apartheid and the freedom movement. This is where the ANC was also based. And so there's a lot of history there. But you know, it's a very urban city. It's a very young city. There's great hotels and restaurants to enjoy here, and it's very vibrant. So I stay at a hotel called latitude 15, which is in the kind of a suburb by the embassy district in Lusaka. It is absolutely amazing. You get to really meet the expat and local communities all together in this particular hotel. And that's really what Lusaka is, is famous for is really amalgamation of your expats, your foreigners, your locals, and of course, your tourists all really getting together. So there's one place that you want to see all that and get a really a vibe of what Zambian modern, you know, society and life looks like. Come Lusaka.

Mimi Lichtenstein 47:18
Sounds like a good plan. Okay, so as we wrap it up, we'll talk a little bit about seasonality, which you've touched on some you had three great illustrations that we're not going to dive into the detail of all of them but they're there for people to go back and reference if they want to South lwanga You want to just go over maybe the highlights of each place and seasonality yes was

Washa 47:40
that long Well of course you know we've it is actually open all year round, but some camps will be seasonal. The best time to come you know for for most of southern Africa is always going to be that May to November period. But don't slip on the secret season. That is our green season between December up until April and this is when you're going to see the most dramatic rains. This is when you know places like San Juan will fill the riverbeds will fill and we can go seasonal boating, we're gonna have a lot more predators, a lot more birding as well, at this time of the year. So you know, each season has an each month does bring a little bit something different to it. So you know, it's great all year round, just depending on what you're looking for.

Mimi Lichtenstein 48:20
I love diagrams like this that show so much information on one page. So thank you. And then Lua planes.

Washa 48:28
Yes, Lua, of course is only open from October until July. So we have a template window open from the mid October to mid July. The big times to come or for this if people want to come to the migration. The best time to come is October November, or around April, when when they're heading back up north. Sometimes they head back around around May but also again coming in that January February. Yes, it'll be a bit hot but the rains are coming in the birds around you can see big hyena action. So all your all season round you'll find really great action but I think the big question is do you want to see predators do you want to see birds do you want to do water activities that will decide when you want to come?

Mimi Lichtenstein 49:09
Again another good thing to think about before you start your planning and the lower Zambezi as you say,

Washa 49:14
Yes, lowers them. This is arguably my favorite area to go to in Zambia. I have been coming here for years. Unfortunately, it's only open from April till November and pretty much come a time during that period between the wild dogs, the leopard, The Lion, the elephants, the canoeing, the game drives, all of it is absolutely amazing. The one thing I would say though, is if you want to do sleep outs, we want to make sure we're there from May onwards we don't get any rains and of course, you know the Wednesday in November and of course I was just there in August and November fishing. Fishing is massive in areas like Lake Kariba. And over here which is further on in lower Zambezi so we really want to make sure if your clients are anglers that they're coming to the lakes and if they want Do any big fishing that October November period is the top period.

Mimi Lichtenstein 50:04
Okay, great to know. And what about going back to Vic fall so a lot of people know Zambia, Zimbabwe because of Victoria Falls. If you are staying in one and you know want to go to the other one or want to see it from both sides, is it easy to cross over between them? Number one, and number two, where's your favorite spot to view the files from?

Washa 50:27
Oh, gosh, I'm gonna answer that second one. Let me answer the first one. Yes, it is very easy to cross over the falls. Actually, it was just announced on Monday that Zambia has actually reduced the cost of visa fees. So if you want to see both sides of the falls, you want to get a unique visa, which costs $50 And you can pay for that and either Zimbabwe or Zambia. The best time to see the falls in the Zambian side is between July and December and on the Zambian the Zimbabwean side is obviously those opposite months, as long as you they're not there in the dry season, then of kind of that that may April period, then you're pretty good. But it's I think it's good to see both sides of the falls depending on what time of the year that you're there. But if you're if you're not going to cross over to Zimbabwe, you just want to stay mostly to the National Park, you can do all those activities. And it's very easy. You can even go to at the border where they have like the bungee jumping and everything right there, which is absolutely fantastic.

Mimi Lichtenstein 51:22
So I went bungee jumping when I was about 22 in Australia, and I was terrified. I definitely would never do it again as a mature adult but I do see the appeal for some have so many adventurous activities. You don't have to go that crazy. Isn't there? Also there's like a big swing there as well. Right?

Washa 51:41
Yes, the the Flying Squirrel.

Mimi Lichtenstein 51:45
I want to go on a flying squirrel actually been on a flying squirrel. I bet they named it after that at mirrorball the spa in the Berkshires. They have a flying squirrel, which was so fun, where they strap you to I don't know like a bungee sort of thing, bring you up to a a tree and then let you go and you just fly through the air. So

Washa 52:03
you you go from this similar jump bungee jumping spot, but instead of jumping down, jump out, swing over the falls. Yeah,

Mimi Lichtenstein 52:12
I'm in I'll do that.

Washa 52:14
Yeah, one of the best things to do when you go to the falls again, whether it's Zambia, Zimbabwe, and you can literally just Google Victoria Falls and mostly attune your activities, and you get a whole priceless, that's a bit of every year of all the kind of ala carte activities. Because they'll always be the activities that the your lodge or your hotel will provide for you all inclusive that you've paid for. But then you have all these other ones love which we just went over, which really your client needs to spend at least a day or two doing those ones. Absolutely.

Mimi Lichtenstein 52:44
I'm there for at least three for sure. Well, Raja, thank you so much. This has been amazing, such great information, and you have such knowledge about all the different properties and the places and the seasonality. So I really appreciate you coming and joining me today.

Washa 53:00
Thank you me so much. And thank you for having me on. And let me talk about Zambia and Southern Africa, which is of course my love and my passion. I hope that we can get you down to travel with me down to Zambia soon enough and we'll get on the canoe and go clearly. Go do some squirrel fly.

Mimi Lichtenstein 53:15
I want to fly squirrels with you and I want to go well Yeah, can you on the Zambezi River so that will be fun. One day we'll get there. Thank you so much. Take care.

Washa 53:24
Thank you so much.

Mimi Lichtenstein 53:26
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