Adventures in Luxury Travel

Mimi Lichtenstein 0:01
If you're a traveler that believes luxury and adventure are not mutually exclusive, then you're in the right place. Every week I take you to a new destination with one of my partners, sharing the hidden gems over the top experiences and active adventures to inspire your next family vacation. I'm Mimi Lichtenstein, an experienced Travel Advisor who has also traveled with my three teenagers and my husband around the world. Let's get started. Welcome to Episode 41 of adventures and luxury travel. Before we start, I have two questions. Do you like knowing about hidden gems, local hikes and the best new restaurants when you travel? Did you know Every Wednesday we send out inspiring travel ideas to help you have more enriching trips. Go to true a travel.com/subscribe to sign up. Just a reminder, you can see the photos we talk about on the show and a full video on true Bay travel.com. Today, Steve and I talk about taking a sabbatical. One of the most rewarding experiences each of us has had. We share our personal stories, a couple of our favorite books, and other practical tips to help you finally realize a long held dream. Today on Adventures in luxury travel, I have the pleasure of having Steve Wilson on to talk about one of our favorite topics. Steve, welcome to the show.

Steve Wilson 1:26
Thank you, maybe pleasure to be here.

Mimi Lichtenstein 1:27
So happy to have you. So Steve is a British person if you haven't noticed by the accent already, and he and I both love the ideas of sabbaticals. We've both gone on sabbaticals, and we both love inspiring other people to go on sabbatical. So today we're going to talk all about answering some of your questions a little bit about what are the different things that you need to think of and the different types of sabbaticals you can go on. And Steve, would you give us a little idea before we start, what, what got you into this business? How did you start planning sabbaticals for other people?

Steve Wilson 2:01
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, he's the ultra ultimate nation away. And not just in our industry, but in any sort of job and by had had a brief career In, in banking. And at the same time, I always had a love and passion for Latin America. And the banking side wasn't going so well. And so an early lead from that, and set off to explore every country by land in Latin America, starting in Mexico and Cancun, working my way, all the way down, by by land, and then by water between Panama and Colombia, and then all the way, way back up again. So it was a full circle. And that sort of planted the seed of these long, extended journeys, and what happens with them, the pros, the cons, the challenges and the sheer enjoyment. And then I came back from that and thought, Maybe this knowledge could be useful. And I started travel planning and and what appealed more than everything was the long, complex journeys under the umbrella of sabbatical, but it certainly also fell into the sort of categories of work ation that we're talking about nowadays. And anything that was was different to the norm or that standard one two week kind of break. And yeah, nearly 20 years down the road now I'm, I'm still doing that.

Mimi Lichtenstein 3:22
Love it. Well, I think we're both fortunate to be able to love what we do and help other people do things that we love to do. So if we think about the different reasons that people might take a sabbatical for you. It was departure from one career and sort of going out, maybe searching for what's next. What are some of the other reasons that you've had clients or that you know, of that people have gone on sabbaticals?

Steve Wilson 3:44
Well, I guess the original one was with a work hat on. So it was a long, complex journey. But someone, he was a landscape photographer, this is one of the very first ones that I ever worked on. And he wanted to reach the cardinal points of the Americas. And I worked with him on three different journeys through Latin America, which took him to the Southern, most Eastern, most western, most northern most and any other extremity that you could find within parts that were, I mean, it was pre Google Maps. So it was it was more challenging, but also in a way more interesting to plan because he truly had the most detailed, extensive map out on the floor of the office, trying to find these points that had come through on a 25 page facts which the start when the planning first kicked off with this, we weren't sure if it was a bit of a joke or a wind up. But it wasn't it was deadly serious. And and so yeah, the purpose of that trip, which was sort of three trips of about two months each was getting to the most remote parts of Latin America. That that was, you know, a unique example. But in most cases, it's it's, I wouldn't say it's a common trend, but it's a slightly growing trend within certain industries, certainly in the UK in the ticket of the professional industries within legal within perhaps education and accountancy, those those sorts of companies who are giving a sabbatical to them or senior staff, and not just them or senior, I mean, that's changing too. But partners, for example, to incentivize them, take a timeout, come back refreshed, and let's work for another few years. So that's been the most common theme. There's also those that have done particularly well within their careers, sold up businesses, and quite often, at quite a young age, want to do something where they're reconnecting with their families, and their kids are, quite possibly still, that sort of young is young ish age, but they're taking them out of school, they're giving them the education of travel, sometimes they're taking, you know, a teacher slash educator with them, but they're exploring the world for up to a year or so. And then you get the type to have between careers who who've, say, left a company, they've got another job lined up with another firm, but they, we call it gardening, leave over here. So you've got normally at three months or so, sometimes a bit longer break, and they want to do something, which can be last minute, but they you know, something very different and maximize that, that, again, unique opportunity of the free time and go and explore the world a bit.

Mimi Lichtenstein 6:24
I think that for a lot of people, they have this concept of let me take advantage of some time off, right? So like, what can I do, what can I see because normally at least American to get one or two weeks off for vacation, and you just can't see that much. And then you have people maybe who have a goal like your first client, or it could be, you know, a language acquisition, it could be climbing, you know, number of peaks in different continents, there could be all sorts of different types of goals. And that even you know, when I look at for us, the big difference between maybe the two big types, one is where you take off and you go explore many places of the world, either a continent or you know, a whole or the whole world. Or you go and you live in one place for a year, and completely immerse yourself in that place. And for us, that was part of it, because I wanted to do a language acquisition for all of us was a great goal, we reached it, I left there with three fluent kids. So I was super happy about that. And just really feel what it's like to you know, live somewhere else have to make friends have to navigate a whole new country and the rules and the laws and all that good stuff. So I just think that no matter what people do a useful time off. And it's also a beneficial time off, you know, for for your family, if it's just solo, if it's a couple, there's just so many so many options. I had someone just write recently, a couple who was interested in doing a sabbatical to Thailand and then go to Europe, and they had a wedding to go to. And they had a few different things that they were trying to piece together into an extended trip. So a lot of times people do that. So there's so many variations on it. It's definitely the least cookie cutter of the things right that anybody like us does, would you say for people who are who are interested in going from place to place to place, let's talk a little bit about how we kind of break it down to make it easier to think of you know, if you look at a six months leave or a year long leave, my process is typically sort of kind of really high up first, let's look at sort of what are you trying to accomplish? Where do you you know what's on your list? Or what do you actually want to do while you're gone. And then if you're going to go to multiple destinations, you first sort of figure out where to go when based on either some personal things that you want to see or a festival you want to experience or a season if you want to be in South America and North Americans winter, and then break those down into silos and plan each of those individually. Is that kind of how you do it? Or how does your process work?

Steve Wilson 8:52
Yeah, it's very similar. I mean, I getting to know the travelers is as detailed as possible. I mean, so much more than just for a week or a two week trip, you really are, I mean, in certain, in my case, trying to get face to face with them, either in person or, as we've now become used to on on Zoom or, or some digital format, and that that helps enormously, you know, the conversation then flows and it's beyond just traveled, it's talking about their lives and what they've done in the past and, and getting to know them and you're you're learning about how much you could maybe push them how ambitious they're trying to be if it's too too much, if it's not right for them, or it is and you know about all the people that they may be going with and the kids are sometimes bringing in multi generational groups at certain times of the trip as well. It's a huge element of getting to know the background of the individuals to start off with and then digging in a bit more into the the the reason behind it. What do you want to achieve like you've you've talked about it learning a language bit reconnecting, which is a big part of it, I've found where they're perhaps overworked, somewhat exhausted by what they have been doing for X number of years and looking for a bit of a life change, you know, it's not in criticism, what they've done and achieved, it's, it's to complement it and to, and to put the energy back in and travel delivers. In that sense. It's, it's the ultimate luxury. And so sabbatical travel, we've got the ultimate luxury of time, to complement and that is, is a lot of planning, a lot of detail,

Mimi Lichtenstein 10:38
a lot of detail. And I think when you have a solo person versus a family, right, magnify what you just said about having those conversations and wanting to figure out what they'd like to get out of it, you know, by four people or five people, it becomes a very complex puzzle.

Steve Wilson 10:55
Earlier was always to try and keep the youngest, happiest I know, from my own experience with with the kids, we took my one year old to Argentina for a month, when, about five years ago, and that had its challenges. And what we did was sort of actually divided up a little bit between us with with him because he was so little, knowing that it just wouldn't work to fly too much, or to travel too much, or certain destinations added a bit more risk. And we're a bit more protective of him at the time, because it was our first and our youngest. But as they get a bit older, you know, it changes it doesn't actually get any easier. And your your kids are a bit older. But I've always gone with a theory when I've worked with families, which is most of the time of trying to keep the youngest happy, focus on them, and then the whole spectrum, happy.

Mimi Lichtenstein 11:44
Agree. And I think that's why it's nice. When you have somebody who's experienced with children and family travel, it does make a difference that those little people are engaged and learning and all of that. Yes. So if someone let's, let's think of an example of someone thinks, Okay, I would like to do this in my life, what do I need to think about? My number one thing is always thinking about kind of planning with the end in mind, right? Like, what do you want, at the end of this experience? What do you want to have done, have achieved? How do you want to feel? Are there places that you wanted to go? Are there skills that you want to have, and if you can kind of fast forward to where you think you'll be at the end of it, then you kind of backtrack to make sure that you fit everything in that you want to have happen. And the end comes and you're not thinking, oh, shoot, I should have done that. Or I wish I'd made time for this, which I think we all do sometimes at the end of a vacation. You're like, Wait, oh, no, I meant to go on that awesome hike, and I never made time for it. And so the whole idea of planning well is that you make sure that you make time for the important things in terms of where I know, you work a lot in Latin America, you and I both love Latin America. I think about for people who are going for an extended period of time, maybe what timezone, especially if they're going to continue to work a little bit which some people with a more sabbatical, you know, workstation, you might not want to be on a 12 hour time difference, because you're going to be getting phone calls in the middle of the night. That's not ideal. So thinking about staying in the same timezone. And if you have kids, another thing I think about is the school years. So one of the reasons we had a list of criteria for our last sabbatical, and that included it had to be in the northern hemisphere so that the school year would line up. It's complicated enough throwing your kids into a school with another language, let alone doing that in the middle of the school year. So for us, that was a big important part. And then what are some of the other things that you talk to with people about like, if they want a more urban experience, or a more country or rural experience?

Steve Wilson 13:47
That's it. I mean, a lot of the strategies I plan to have been on the adventure, but soft adventure, as opposed to climbing seven peaks in seven weeks or what have you. And but they've been moving. And my, I always find that the bucket list is is huge. And and people think that that's easily perhaps to achieve within X amount of time, but a few months, but six months or a year. But it's amazing when you actually pin this thing down to how quickly that time goes. When you travel at a sensible pace and travel fatigue. I mean, that can apply to any length of trip. But when you are on the exploratory type of sabbatical, and you're moving, it becomes even more relevant and in the game when you're juggling different age groups and different. Yeah, different fitness levels, different mentalities. It's a real battle and there's exhausting travel it becomes it's the daily life and the daily grind of the traveling takes some adjustment.

Mimi Lichtenstein 14:49
Would you say? I mean, a lot of times when I'm planning trips for people anyway, I talk a lot about what's the pace of travel that you like, if you have teenagers, perhaps you don't want to sign up for some adventure. that starts at 7am. And most people wouldn't want to change hotel rooms, you know, every night for two weeks straight. And so having that same conversation when someone's going on sabbatical is important because it does get exhausting packing and unpacking and, you know, schlepping to the airport and going through security and all that stuff. So really thinking you need

Steve Wilson 15:20
some, there's some significant chunks of the trip, which you need some downtime planning, ideally, at the very beginning, when you often people start a sabbatical, and they're, they're coming off the back of pretty heavy workload bit, ending a career be taking career break, but selling, whatever the reason, and Europe, you've been working flat out, you need, ideally, to head somewhere relaxing bit in the hills bit on the coast, somewhere calming that isn't a perhaps a buzzing city where you've just left to just unwind, get into the timezone get into the way of life, it's a, it's a big challenge to disconnect digitally. I know I've tried it myself. And I've really struggled with it and missed it in a weird way. Despite we say, we want to use these things less. But I think the style of a trip and chance within every so often when you're on these exploratory trips. And again, at the very end of the trip, where you've got time to reflect, look back and hopefully think that you've achieved what you set out to do. And it really, it really did tick the box, that's a big key part with the, with the pace of, of the planet.

Mimi Lichtenstein 16:29
And your comments on an exploratory trip made me remember, again, we stayed in one place in Madrid, but I went over maybe six months in advance to go scout out schools to scout out neighborhoods, even looking at a couple of apartments. And so I think I call that like a reconnaissance trip, doing something like that, if you are planning on staying in one place, I think, is a great idea. Particularly if you haven't spent an enormous amount of time there just to get a feel for where you want to be. So it's

Steve Wilson 16:56
crucial when you're moving to live somewhere, like in your case to make sure it is right for you, your family and your your children.

Mimi Lichtenstein 17:03
And so for the kids, you know, having a pace, like you mentioned balancing, which again, I do with even shorter trips, being in a city and urban environment with being in the country or a more relaxed environment, because just that energy that balance, I mean, to hop from, you know, Hong Kong to Paris to New York to Shanghai to you know, Nairobi like that's a lot of, you know, chaos. And yeah, so definitely balancing those two things out is helpful, I think, for everyone in particular, the kids,

Steve Wilson 17:38
when you're moving in that way, it's on the planning side, it's working out what what's going to work better from time change difference, because some of the, certainly some of the trips I've planned have been cross Continental. And it will work better going in one direction versus another depending on where you're you're living. So we can adjust more easily each time. And I know that I had a family some years ago now starting in South America, and then they went round to Southeast Asia and Indonesia. And that part of the world and the adjustment was was a challenge to put it mildly. Crickets,

Mimi Lichtenstein 18:17
and you also need to think about clothing, right? Appropriate clothing. So you might be shipping boxes home or having things shipped to you. It's always good to have a friendly person at home who's ready to send you gear that you might need for. I know, on our trip, my husband actually didn't live with us over there. He just came back and forth every month and visited. And so at one point, we went skiing in Switzerland, but we had no ski gear with us. So he you know, carried over a bag of all of our ski gear on one of his airplane rides. So it is nice having that person who can who can just even ship you things for different places. Yes, absolutely. And would you say when people are let's talk a little bit about a little bit about like logistics and healthcare and all that sort of thing when you are going abroad. Travel are not travel insurance. But health insurance is important, right? Healthcare is different in every single country. So in a situation where you're staying in one country, it's kind of easier you figure it out, you get health insurance for that. But if you're hopping around the world, there are different types of insurance that will cover you. And given you never know what's going to happen. Trust me, I've heard of lots of crazy things. So you want to make sure that you have some sort of health care coverage for where you are

Steve Wilson 19:30
100% the more comprehensive the better and it'll be a big expense. But when you're as you say you're you're going from to different countries and with hugely different health care systems. It's a key key expense in that you can be juggling altitude, you're juggling different climate zones between jungle and coastal and what have you and the unknown. The unknown of travel is accentuated by the by the sabbatical style trip and so Having that type of proper insurance is, is key.

Mimi Lichtenstein 20:04
And I just look at even two friends of mine a couple months ago, one was in Hawaii stepped on a sea urchin. Another one was in Thailand and got stung by a box jellyfish, you know, you're you head out on vacation, not thinking these things are going to happen. But you know, no matter how smart you are, and how good you are at avoiding tragedies, they, you know, they just happen.

Steve Wilson 20:24
No, and particularly with the current times, we're in with the with the dreaded COVID complications. And that that has brought a different challenge. And actually, you know, that in the current era, I'd say, for sabbaticals, typically speaking, is to be a bit less ambitious than you perhaps would have liked to have been a couple of years ago. And because of those sort of health risks, and the complications with border crossings with visas, with changing rules and regulations, I think, in the current era, sticking to one country and going deeper and more immersive and over a region where there's a sort of mutual understanding between each, each small country, and hopefully a fan, a fairly friendly, reciprocated approach between border crossings, that's the that would be my advice at the moment, rather than trying to take on the world,

Mimi Lichtenstein 21:16
be less ambitious? Well, a I agree with you, I think that's great advice. I'll also say that some people have this dream as I did for living abroad, or perhaps going on and around the world trip. And depending upon how much time you have, even though the dream is to go around the world, and you might actually do as you know, circumference of the world, you could also leave out one continent, and know that later on, you'll go back to that on a big trip. And so depending upon how much time you have, rather than rushing through and making sure you hit all the continents, another idea would be you know, leave out a shot or go back to Australia, New Zealand together and another time or something like that. Because, right, Evan, it is a huge commitment, a huge time commitment. And there's never enough time, right? If you said you had a year to travel the world, you still wouldn't have enough time at every place, even though that seems like a really long period of time.

Steve Wilson 22:05
Oh, exactly as the time goes, and also, you know, we get in our own little bubbles in a home countries, especially here, we're a tiny nation. But when we go to another country, it's easy to forget just how enormous they are, how much there is to see that the drive times that we're not used to certainly coming from the UK, or the number of flights that you're likely to have to take, and people get weary with airports and grumpy with long drives. And I think that's a key factor. Again, going back to the planning the detail, but sometimes a less ambitious approach. But going deeper, as in your case in one country, is just as if not more rewarding living someone's very different than just traveling constantly, as you well know.

Mimi Lichtenstein 22:49
Yeah, I mean, they're, to be honest, I would like to do both. So I would still like to do and around the world trip that hey, you know, double the time to do have both of those experiences, but I'm not gonna give up on it, I still might do it. And then sort of the dreaded COVID complications, conversation, let's talk about that for a minute. Obviously, we both are very aware and as is our most people, that rules are changing on a daily basis. And so to plan something today, or the next year, you know, a few years ago doing that something things might come up and things might evolve and change after you've left on your trip. Now, it's even more like that.

Steve Wilson 23:25
Indeed, no, I mean, no one could have prepared us for this. Our industry, as we know has been one of the worst affected by the hands on element from a planning perspective from our side is, is huge. The contact checking and checking and checking. And then even when you've you've checked so many times, you never know what can still happen. Especially if you're crossing borders, going back to that point where land border in a certain certain parts of the world aren't necessarily the most pleasant experience at the best of times, but you've got someone on the gate who isn't very happy. And it can, it can prove quite stressful. And you know, it doesn't mean you're automatically going to go through even if you've got all the paperwork. So we both work with phenomenal local partners on the ground and trying to make things as seamless as possible. But that I think anyone who travels in this era be at a short trip or a sabbatical is taking on some risk, knowing that there's the COVID complications behind them, and they've got, ideally have some but they certainly have an adventurous spirit, but to take on some of the responsibility because you just never know the unknown.

Mimi Lichtenstein 24:34
And I think I think the point we both have seen proven true again and again, is you could actually be following the rules, but something could still come up to prevent you whether it be a cranky agent or you know someone who's interpreting the language differently than you. And I've seen that happen with regular travel and I think the key is that, you know, obviously when we're working with our clients, we're there for them. If something were to go wrong, we can't Event everything that from happening. But if something does happen, then we're gonna obviously keep ourselves calm. And we'll be able to sort of help them through it however complicated that might be.

Steve Wilson 25:10
That's it. And when we're planning, you know, as a border crossings at the moment, I think it's helpful to plan with the, with the idea that if something does go wrong, you've got a contingency day or two in place, that gives you a bit of extra time to cross something or offline. And it's not just land borders, and it's flying in with flight schedules canceled with flight delays, you don't want to be going into a new country and trying to make a connecting flight to get somewhere remote, you need maximum use that time that you've hopefully got for a sabbatical to build in a few extra windows here in there.

Mimi Lichtenstein 25:44
We use the expression a lot, pack your patience, because, again, you never know there's going to be a long line, your flight might get canceled, whatever it might be, but the best thing that you can carry with you as your patients, because you will need to go eventually, just might take a little bit longer. And that what about a budget? So for people who, you know, come to one of us, and they say they want to do this? And oftentimes you might say, Okay, do you have a budget for it? And the answer is well, no, I don't know, how much does it cost? How do you help people figure that out?

Steve Wilson 26:15
Oh, I typically will divide the world up a bit into the areas that are going to cost you a lot more both from not just getting there. But you know, from an accommodation to guided services, transportation eating out, and then, you know, this is where the money will go further in other parts of the world. And that's a sort of starting point. But also, it's just the amount they're going to move and how they're going to travel. The more flying the more flying in business class or first or private charters, obviously, the price goes up massively for those that want to mix it up and do the kind of local thing using the local trains or, or transport connections, certainly in countries like India, parts of Southeast Asia, and that helps budget go a lot further, I think in your case of what you did, where you're living somewhere and you you've contracted a home for a while that helps to manage budget, far more than moving every three, four days or all week when you're you're booking, just hotels and you're eating out constantly and being the more independent you are, the more your your budget stretches,

Mimi Lichtenstein 27:18
I would agree with that. And it's similar to a regular trip that we might plan, right, so you have your big chunks of accommodations, experiences and transportation. And so you can have different levers, right for making those go higher and lower depending upon exactly what you're looking for. But a lot of people if you are going to spend, let's say a month solid in a place, you can do an apartment rental instead of staying in a hotel. And you know, yes, going out is half the fun, but maybe you don't have to go out to eat for breakfast every day, you can just have that in your apartment, and then, you know, go out for lunches and dinners. But it gives you that a little bit more of a balance, especially with kids again, right, they don't want to live out of a hotel room in a suitcase for a year that's

Steve Wilson 28:00
hungry and you want some normality to life as well when you're on the road. And so the simplest of things I call it the cheese sandwich evening where the simplest pleasure of a basic ordinary cheese sandwich it can be something or something similar that someone may crave rather than eating out in a restaurant. Choosing choosing through a menu again, with the kids it's an added stress sometimes eating out depending on their their ages and doing that three times a day on budget and stress levels makes it makes a huge difference. Having some some simple things I think the longer you stay somewhere, the more you also discover those hidden gems, you know when going into places for a handful of days, you'll pick out will be advised to go to or told about two or three hotspots because they're the they're the gems but then you uncover that you know the tackle stand or the street seller in Bangkok or the whatever in the world that does the most incredible something cost you next to nothing and that's that's as brilliant in its own way.

Mimi Lichtenstein 29:01
Well, it's funny you say that because one of our family's favorite restaurants near our apartment in Madrid was tacos Chapultepec, which was a little hole in the wall Mexican place with great tacos. So much so that when we left the country at Christmas time to go to Morocco, and we were eating Moroccan food for two weeks. When we came back they're like can we go to tacos Chapultepec, like that was their version of you know, like a good homey feeling meal?

Steve Wilson 29:27
That comes with that familiarity?

Mimi Lichtenstein 29:29
Right? Yeah. And I think you know, another advantage with staying in one place. You know, we became friends with all of our neighbor many of our neighbors and with the kids had friends at school and I joined a book club, we got to know our Baker downstairs every day I would go down there and I would buy fresh bread to make the kids sandwiches for their snacks. So there are a lot of advantages with staying in one place. But then another great thing is if you are somewhere like Madrid or somewhere else you can do these you know vacations from your sabbatical. So We went skiing in Switzerland, we went to the Canary Islands, we went to Portugal, we went to Morocco. So it just gives you you know, a one or two hour flight, instead of that eight plus hour flight you might have from home.

Steve Wilson 30:11
Very true. And even though the new home is still new, it's then becomes your familiar points, doesn't it to return to?

Mimi Lichtenstein 30:18
Yeah. And so that could be done. You know, even if you're staying in a place for a month, and you want to go a weekend away, you keep that place for a month. So you have, you know, some continuity, and you only pack your weekend bag, and you you know, hop on a train and go somewhere for the weekend and then come back, which I think is a great way to do it, too, because you just don't feel like you're moving as much.

Steve Wilson 30:39
Yeah, I agree. I also think in those sort of circumstances, when you've made send your case, Madrid home for a while you because you're new to it, because you're foreign within this new country, you tend to make a bit more of an effort to converse differently, or interact more with the local baker, the butcher, whoever it might be in a different way to possibly at home, I know, you know, my hometown here, you, we don't have that kind of relationship with, with local suppliers or shops or this and that and restaurants. But from my experience, when I've lived in different countries around the world, I've had those go to these random relationships, so that you've got to know these people, because you do make a bit more of an effort. And in particular, when the language is different, and you know, it challenges you.

Mimi Lichtenstein 31:23
Yeah, I would say it's 100% worth it, we'll share some pictures in a minute of some of your and I different experiences. But for us, I lived in a small apartment building, and I made chocolate chip cookies and brought them to my neighbors. And this one lady Pilar was adorable. She didn't speak any English at all. But she said to me, in Spanish, I feel like you're an American right out of the movies, like bringing me a plate of chocolate chip cookies. So it is funny that you kind of bring your home ways of doing things, you know, to a different experience and in another culture. And they're like, Wait, who are you like nobody brings cookies around to their neighbors in Madrid, you know. So it was just kind of a funny experience. And she actually then made me some Spanish sweets and brought them up to us. And then we made some for our other neighbor. And then she taught me she's from Venezuela, how to make empanadas. And then my other neighbor, he taught us how to make a proper Spanish tortilla. And so there was a lot of interchange, I think I made him banana bread. And I made them pull pork sometime. So it was just a really fun, intercultural experience that you can have when you develop relationships with people that could happen in a month, but certainly will happen in a year

Steve Wilson 32:36
in a longer time. Yeah, most definitely. I mean, I part of my big trip through Latin America was to spend some time giving back so I wouldn't make it somewhere home for a while, every few months or so, just again, go back to that travel fatigue. And, and I spent a lot of time in Grenada in Nicaragua. And it's going back some time now. But I ended up working with a lady who was known as the local baker, but she made me feel in front of him and others and then go out and sell them on the buses. And I spent time working with her talking to her for day after day after day. And on one occasion, they had made a we call it Bangers and Mash over here in the UK, but sausages and mash the most and Latina on Nicaraguan meal you could ever have, and they're watching me make this thing on their open wood fire with a slightly bewilderment and they ate it politely. I'm not sure if it was. But again, it was a brilliant cultural interaction. And some it's one of those special moments you shit.

Mimi Lichtenstein 33:37
Yeah. And there's so many of those. Okay, before we flip through a couple pictures, getting back really quickly to the cost conversation, balancing out that Southeast Asia more rural places, they're a little less expensive than on the opposite side of that there's some big splurges so if you're going to incorporate a safari, for example, or you want to go to the Galapagos, what are some other ones like that, that that you would say would be on the splurge side?

Steve Wilson 34:03
Yeah, I think well, the polar regions springs to mind and depending on the time of you, you're gonna be in Antarctica or, or the Arctic. And these often with the big long sabbatical trips. There'll be a couple of big ticket bucket list items. And, and yeah, you mentioned Galapagus is a great example, the Safaris in Africa the polar regions and just jet general travel I mean this particularly expensive ranches in the US as you will know but they can be a real treat stay for for someone who who wants that in between doing some perhaps wilderness camping or they've done the simpler, home rental apartment rental. I think the beauty of that everything stands out if you if you're just flowing from one, like huge ticket item or one presidential suite to another or one thing there's a particular level continuously, it can start to blur over time. or becomes the norm. And I think that's where putting in those contrasts in between each move is a is an important factor when you're traveling.

Mimi Lichtenstein 35:11
Agreed. And I think it just reminded me to have the balance of not only urban and rural, but so you could also charter a yacht, that'll be one of the splurge items, right, you could also, you know, go through the Galapagos on a yacht, but being doing wildlife and doing, you know, city and culture and doing history and art, but also maybe playing soccer, you know, with the local kids, if you have kids with you, there's just so many categories that you could incorporate, and thinking about those intentionally from the beginning, well, again, guarantee that the end won't come and then you're regretting that you missed something.

Steve Wilson 35:45
That's it. And those simpler days are just as memorable. They can bring out the unplanned, and the spontaneous dinner party stories for the future, you know, this descriptive stuff, which is organized, of course, and it's incredible, going to Antarctica, or the Galapagos, or wherever, you know, encounters with the gorillas, but it's some of those unscripted things of the people you meet, can be phenomenal part, to the experience of the sabbatical experience.

Mimi Lichtenstein 36:13
Actually, one of our most memorable experiences to family was celebrating Thanksgiving over there. Because we invited over some of the kids friends and their parents, we invited over my Spanish teacher and his wife, one of my neighbors, and they truly felt so honored that we were inviting them for an American Thanksgiving, it was like, you know, in comparison, in Spain, there obviously tend to be quite religious people, it was like a religious, you know, event in their mind of that kind of importance. And so, my children were skipping around the house, like with the smells of home and Thanksgiving, like so beyond excited for this experience, and then to have all those people there who felt so grateful to be included was a really unique experience, you know, I wouldn't have known that it would be like that.

Steve Wilson 36:58
And those people, you quite often end up staying in touch with I know, people I met decades ago, from different trips, especially the long one, you'd run into them. When you're on the road, you'd run into them a few times as a hang on, we need to chat and then you get to know people in a really different way and share moments when you're on the road with strangers who become friends for the for the long term.

Mimi Lichtenstein 37:21
Yeah. Okay, so let's flip through a few photos just to reminisce about some cool experiences you sent me a few tell us a little bit about for the people who are listening who aren't looking at the photo, what are we talking about here? So

Steve Wilson 37:33
I'm giving the example of the guy honors in South America in the northeastern tip, which are probably the least visited countries in the whole of the Americas. So French Guiana, Suriname and Guyana itself, convincing people to go there on your average holiday for a week or so is, is not easy. But that's the sort of destination which for me personally, and I did it on my sabbatical trip, the first one, and then I revisited again in more recent times, but they deliver in a way that has your eyes, big wise, eyes wide open. And you know, it's, it's a it's a challenge. And when you've got the time on the sabbatical, you can sort of embrace it in a different way, you're not in a rush in the same way you you're more open to different experiences, different sort of challenges of the logistics of it. But I think when you go to a set of countries like that, where there's no other tourists, or hardly any other tourists, that actually can start to resonate more and getting off that beaten track, when you're on the, you know, the gringo trail through parts of Latin America, when you're on those long trips, you, you start after over time to, to want to try and escape that a little bit. And I felt when I got up to the Garner's a, they're beautiful be. There's no one no other tourists there. So you feel like you're discovering it for the first time, you've got it to yourself. I took photos, which is in the photograph here is the most incredible waterfall I've ever seen anywhere in the world. And I've seen, you know, a few of the more famous ones, but the reason for it is because it's so untouched. You know, there's no tourist trails, there's no barriers, you're there. Alone, pretty much there might be a handful of others. But seeing the spectacle is it's hard to find somewhere in the world that that leaves you gasping quite like that in today's day and age?

Mimi Lichtenstein 39:25
Well, it is stunning. And I think your point about you know, little countries that aren't known for being great tourist destinations, you wouldn't take a one or two week trip to go visit this country when there are so many other ones that you would maybe be more likely to see. But taking the time to actually go see them is impactful and worthwhile and unspoiled for sure. Until the school yeah. And so tell us a little bit so here's a picture of an island Where's this one? Yeah,

Steve Wilson 39:51
this one was actually this is the eldest a little Devil's Island in French Guiana which was renowned for for housing some Notorious inmates from from France that got sent over the book that was written about one of the inmates back in the I forget the year, but the stay there to visit this sort of island. Again, you'd never do this on a normal holiday but on a on a sabbatical sort of trip getting out to Kuru, which is the starting off point or jumping off point, you've got the European Space Station, seeing that and seeing the control room of everything that goes on is pretty incredible. And then you head out to the elders and tour around you see the camp, you see the prison quarters, you see the the guards rooms, and it's, it's pretty out there.

Mimi Lichtenstein 40:43
Well, it looks like it but what a unique experience. And so this one, you'll maybe give us a little description.

Steve Wilson 40:52
This was simple village life in Suriname, in fact, in fact, where you could where she stayed on a little plantation in Frederick School, which is outside the capital of Paramaribo and a little bike ride to Potter through the villages, see the local life, do the simple things like buying a snack and a drink chatting to the locals. For me that's traveling. And that really comes through in those sabbatical longer trips where you're unhurried, you're not in a rush. This was completely unscripted. And then I think it it allows you to refocus a little bit, you see how the locals are living there, the pace of life is slower. And we talk a lot about slow travel, we talk about slow living, slow food, so everything but do we practice it that much. It's hard to it with work and life as it is in our countries. But I think sometimes thinking back and reflecting on some of these travel experiences, it leaves leaves some positive thoughts in your mind.

Mimi Lichtenstein 41:53
And I will add that I will link to your website in the show notes. But I love the name of your company linger. It's perfect for slow travel. And to have the right to have these moments where again, right you said buying the snack of it. My kids love going to the same little snack shop on our street every day and you know buying a drink or candy or whatever. And it's just a fun contrast to to your experience at home. All right now we're transitioning into a few of my photos. And this just happened to be on our Christmas vacation when we were living in Madrid. And we went to Morocco and the kids riding out into the horizon on some camels which was super fun. Again, we we definitely focused on having experiences that we didn't get at home and there are no camels in Hanover, New Hampshire. So this was a perfect one becoming football fans. I mean, we love soccer, especially European soccer, but we became pretty hardcore Real Madrid fans when we were over there. And so our kids would you know, dress up for the games, we got to go see a bunch of games. And I mean, that was an experience that Americans just don't celebrate soccer in the same way. Obviously, we have other sports that we're as crazy about, but

Steve Wilson 43:06
you can feel why the smiles on their faces just.

Mimi Lichtenstein 43:09
And then this was with some friends where we had watched, I think it was Spain was playing in the Euro COPA. And so we were out somewhere and everybody gets decked out with the red and the yellow and the flags and everything. And it is amazing how a city is transformed how the TVs all come out on the terraces if you're sitting outside having a cocktail, so nobody's gonna miss the game if there's an important game on. And then for us more doing new things, you know, the kids learn to surf, we went skiing in Switzerland, my girls signed up for boxing lessons, which they probably might not have done at home. And each of them played a sport at school, which was an interesting experience just playing basketball, soccer, ice hockey, and volleyball. You know, some of those have the same rules. Some of them have different roles. So it was interesting for them to learn a little bit about what it's like to play on a team and even kind of what the the attitudes are on a team. You know, it's just different than being in another culture. So that was really fun. And cooking. We did a lot of cooking learn to make pie learn to make on a bus, as I said, we had a Mexican Cook, come over to our house to teach us how to make some Mexican meals we learned how to make I forget it wasn't from I think, oh, Panama, we had somebody come over and teach us how to make some Panama food. And this is one of my neighbors who was from Venezuela, who was teaching us I think this was lentils. So there was a lot of for us it was a lot of people write a lot of people interactions as well as going and going places and seeing new places. This was my book club that I was a part of, which was so sweet that they invited me to it because at the time my Spanish was definitely mediocre. And I never read the whole book, but they always let me come which was which was really nice. So I think you know, just a few examples from the two of us. You could do remote things. You could do urban things. You could go to one continent, you could go all over the world, you can stay in one city. It's like the world is your oyster. So if you've ever thought about it, I'm sure if you had a conversation with either me or Steve, we would absolutely say you should do it. And if you don't do it, you'll probably get to later in life and you know, regret the fact that you didn't do it. So I would say, figure out a way to make it happen. And there's lots of ways to do that. And sometimes, you might need a little help brainstorming or being creative or figuring out how to tell your team that you're going to take time off or figuring out how to ask your boss for some time off. But Steve and I are both very well equipped to have, you know, some good bullet points for those conversations.

Steve Wilson 45:41
Yeah, I couldn't agree more. And I think, to your point earlier with those people encounters actually leave some of them the longest memories, the greatest memories of it. And when you you meet great people in the destination, you are immediately drawn more to it. You want to spend longer, you want to dive deeper and explore further, but feeling welcome in a country, wherever it is in the world is down to often those people interactions.

Mimi Lichtenstein 46:08
Yeah. And I mean, I will say to that there has been you alluded to this, you know, a little bit of a growing trend of sabbaticals DJ DeJohn Dona, he has a project called the sabbatical project, which if anyone's interested, they should definitely go check out and I think that there are quite a few companies. You mentioned, the professional service firms, law firms, accounting firms, finance firms, and even more progressive regular companies and some tech companies who are promoting sabbaticals because they are an important part of taking a break from somebody who has, you know, a huge workload, who has a lot, you know, is coming off of a year of, you know, maybe a huge project or something. And if they want to keep people for the long term, you know, giving them perks like this is a big benefit.

Steve Wilson 46:53
Absolutely. I think there's far more awareness of that now with I mean, the, the, the wellness benefits is huge. And the burnout is one factor with work is not always the case. But just acknowledging a bit more that that work life balance and breaks in between with with a lot of stressful jobs can be hugely beneficial to the to the company, as well as the individual.

Mimi Lichtenstein 47:18
And I think I love the phrase where there's a will there's a way, you know, sometimes people think about this or dream about this, as I did, there was just never an opportunity to go. My husband didn't want to take a year off of work. This is a great example. So I waited and waited. And then a friend of mine went on a sabbatical. And the second year, her husband came back here to go back to work, and she stayed with her kids. And the light bulb went on. I was like, wait, you can do that. Oh, how about that? So we I proposed it to him and, and we went without him. And he just came to visit every month. So you know what? I've preferred to have him there the whole time? Absolutely. But if I'd waited for that, it never would have happened though sometimes. Yeah. And then lastly, I wanted to ask you about I know both of us have a friend. And there are multiple books that have been written about people's sabbaticals. But I have a friend, Charlie Whelan, who I actually interviewed on the show many moons ago. And he wrote a book called We came, we saw we left, which is a highly entertaining tale of his escapades around the world, with his family, he had teenagers and college kids at the time. So I will link to that in the show notes, too, is a really funny and inspiring story. And I think one of your friends also wrote a book, is that right?

Steve Wilson 48:32
Yes, a client started out and we got to know each other well, but he, he was a partner in a law firm. And he was heading to the states for his sabbatical. So this was more of a two to three month long trip a huge passion for the US, and in particular, the music as well as the country and the landscape. And he wrote a book called In Search of nice Americans, which is full of irony, but it's it's written in, in a sort of Bill Bryson style. So it's, it's humorous, it's about those encounters. And it's, it's funny, I generally got some good laughs out of that, because you can relate from your own travels. And, again, going back to those people encounters, but also the challenges that come up on trip, the unexpected, the unknown, he brings a humorous Outlook to all of those things, which I enjoyed reading.

Mimi Lichtenstein 49:24
Absolutely. Well, I haven't read that one yet. So we'll have to swap. Perfect. Well, Steve, thank you so much. This has been super fun. Again, I could talk about this all day long. And I look forward to having many more conversations with you. And hopefully one day we'll be meeting up at one of the conferences somewhere in the world, and we'll be able to have this conversation in person.

Steve Wilson 49:45
I hope so. Maybe Yeah, we've talked a lot digitally over the last couple of years, but it's been fantastic. Thank you for having me on your show. I'm glad to find someone always with a shared passion for the for the sabbatical concept.

Mimi Lichtenstein 49:59
And I wouldn't say Honestly, like if somebody doesn't have a year, you know, think about some of these things where you can incorporate them into a shorter trip, right? Even a two week trip, you can do things that make it a little bit more about integrating with a local community and having more authentic experiences rather than just seeing the sights. So all right, well take care. Thanks so much, Steve. Thank you. Bye, bye. If you enjoyed today's show, and don't want to miss an episode, you can subscribe and follow the show wherever you listen to your podcasts. And if you haven't already, I would really appreciate it if you could leave a rating and review to let me know what you think and to help others find adventures and luxury travel. I want your honest feedback so I can create a podcast that shares lots of insights to help travelers have more amazing adventures. Visit truth a travel.com backslash podcast to launch for step by step instructions on how to subscribe, rate and review adventures in luxury travel today. See you next time. Thank you for listening to this episode of adventures and luxury travel. If you want more travel tips, go to tube a travel.com where you can sign up for our newsletter that shares more inspiring travel ideas around the world. See you here next week.