Adventures in Luxury Travel

Mimi Lichtenstein 0:01
If you're a traveler that believes luxury and adventure are not mutually exclusive, then you're in the right place. Every week I take you to a new destination with one of my partners, sharing the hidden gems over the top experiences and active adventures to inspire your next family vacation. I'm Mimi Lichtenstein, an experienced Travel Advisor who has also traveled with my three teenagers and my husband around the world. Let's get started. Welcome to Episode 47 of adventures in luxury travel. Today, Augustine and I talk about hiking from place to place in northern Italy's dolomite mountains. The Dolomites are ideal for this kind of hiking, they have mountain refu HEOS and five star hotels, three different cultures, panoramic vistas, sparkling lakes and your routes can be tailored to suit novice hikers, or those wanting challenging vertical clients. In addition, there are via ferratas mountain biking, spectacular picnic spots, luxurious spas and Michelin star restaurants. Visit true Bay travel.com/ 47 for a video of today's show and additional resources. Good morning, everyone. I'm Mimi Lichtenstein. And today on the adventures in luxury travel show we are talking all about hut to hut or hotel to hotel hiking in the Dola meet days. And Augustina Loggos. Marvel is my guest today. Welcome Augustina. Hello, thank you so much for coming. We're excited to have you on you and I were talking a little bit before the show. And I learned that you actually grew up in Patagonia. And so obviously today we're going to talk about the Delta meat days. But tell me a little bit. Just kind of an overall comparison. How does hiking in the dolla meat days compare with hiking and Patagonia?

Agustina 1:50
Well, I grew up by hiking in Patagonia and the difference of what I see of that and the Dolomites is that $1 mass is a smaller area. And it's not it's wild, but you still is very civilized. I call it civilized hiking. But everyone Yeah, you have huge extensions, hours of hiking, you don't see anything. You have the wind, the you know, the weather is a big component in Patagonia in the Dolomites too, but you have always means of getting out of the, you know, the difficult songs or when you're hiking and it's difficult, you can change it or you know, you hike two hours and you get to the refugium in the dollar in Patagonia. You don't have that now, civilized hiking,

Mimi Lichtenstein 2:33
civilized. Yes. And you have a lot more people around and there's a lot more towns to explore and restaurants to go to.

Agustina 2:40
Okay. You have in the dollar, my store values, they're all connected 1000s of trails and you have a network of around 400 refusals. And you have all these high routes they call LTV of the Dolomites that they go north, north, south east west, there's seven of them, then you can go head to heart or the refusal to refusal or from valid valid you can do

Mimi Lichtenstein 3:04
the hiking. Okay, well, I'm excited to dive in with you. So for people who have never been to the Dolan meat days, so Americans we say Dolomites but usually when you talk to someone who's Italian they don't understand you as I've experienced in my life. So they said the dollar meet this, it's just this little area up here in the far kind of Northern eastern part of Italy, super close to Austria, and spectacularly beautiful as we're going to see lots of photos. Tell us a little bit about the area. This I know this particular map shows the topography, more for ski season. Obviously, these places are used in the wintertime for skiing. Tell us a little bit about all those different valleys and and kind of where people go.

Agustina 3:47
Well, as I said, there's tall valleys and the nice thing of the Dolomites is part of the Dolomites used to be Austria, mostly all of it now. So we have that culture of Austrian, Italian and then you have five others that they speak Ladino. So you have Austrian, a will the Austrian or German language, Italian language and Latino. So you have the South Tirol and Trentino regions in the north and in the East. And in other words, you have the Veneto region. So you have all that income connected all together through the valley. So when you hike, you can see the difference in with the people the signs in the on the, on the maps or on the trails that you have different languages, on the food that you eat, on the culture, the customs. So it's very interesting when you go hiking for us, it's important to give people to do that when they go from valley to valley to experience this. They didn't have it in in North America. And they had an amazing

Mimi Lichtenstein 4:44
and I think that a lot of people have something like this on their bucket list, right? You can go hiking hut to hut here. You can do it in Peru. You can do it in Switzerland, there's lots of opportunities where your main goal every day is to be outdoors and I think the huge advantage of being in the dolla meat days, as you mentioned, all the different cultures, the food, the quaint little towns, there's just so many wonderful things about it. It's on my bucket list as I think it should be on everybody else's. Let's transition to here's a few beautiful photos. Tell us a little bit about where this is. And you know, and

Agustina 5:19
this is one of the valleys is in the north of the Dolomites is called baldy fullness and they do church there is a very famous church for the photos, everybody takes photos. They're a church of the Madalina and it's very close to the value of by Gardena there you may have heard, and I'll say this, you see, is beautiful, you can hike from that place to the other this place is in a poet sadhana. And from that little church, hiking for two, three days you can arrive here, and there's a couple of refugees there. Mostly all of the refugees in the Dolomites are family owned. And then you have the refrigerators that are a run by the Italian Alpine Club, that they are managed by, you know, by families, the ones that are family owned that are private, they apps, they are much more sophisticated. You have private rooms, you have private bathroom in the you know, room with a bathroom, and you have the dormitory. So depending on the refrigerator, some are nicer than others. Yeah, but very limited availability or rooms, you have five, six rooms maximum.

Mimi Lichtenstein 6:22
Okay, and we'll dive into those a little bit more later where we'll get your perspective on how you know kind of from the low end, high end what it's like to stay in a rifugio.

Agustina 6:32
This is the Valley of invite Gardena. This is a town of Ortisei. Like this one. There's two big towns in the Dolomites or the say a Cortina better where we're going to in the Veneto region where we're going to have the Olympics 2026

Mimi Lichtenstein 6:45
Would you say I mean, we could just look at beautiful pictures of the Dolomites all day, if somebody's interested in planning a moving trip through the Dolomites days, and that might be rifugio to rifugio, which is really like a mountain huts. Or it might be luxury hotel to luxury hotel. Let's talk a little bit about what people need to think about and plan for ahead of time in order to figure out what's the best route for them and how they go about planning it. So maybe let's start with as far as number of days, what would you say would be a minimum number of days for somebody who wanted to do a trip like this?

Agustina 7:21
Usually people are they're active. So I will recommend at least six nights in the Dolomites because people are like that people that come to the Dolomites. They like this, or they want to do that. And it's amazing. It's a UNESCO Natural Heritage Site. So you're blown away by the beauty of the areas at least six nights, I will come here.

Mimi Lichtenstein 7:40
And then if they are active people in general, how much extra preparation might they need to do I know, typically, if you're going from place to place, you might think that there's only one route but you can actually structure it so that you have a more moderate route versus a more, you know, a steeper, more difficult, challenging route.

Agustina 8:01
Yes, that's one thing that is easy for us to organize. Because you can have to go from point A to B, you have different ways. So you can do it. Moderate hiking are very challenging. To be you need to be active, you need to know that the Dolomites is a lot of mountains. So you go up and you go down, up and down. So it's important to be feet and I don't know not have so many problems on your knees, you know, where we're getting all these knees and stuff like that. Why there's always one, one thing that I have to say is that it's easy also for families and for kids. And also, even for people that want to be a little bit active, but they are not like super strong. Dolomites is easy, and you can do it because we have lived so you can take the lift, and we can adapt the itinerary or more easier.

Mimi Lichtenstein 8:49
And I think that's something great for people to know that you don't all have to be the exact same level hikers you know, if you have kids or adults who are in great shape and other friends, maybe who only want to do a little bit more casual hiking, you can incorporate it so that you can get places taking different routes, and then meet there at the end of the day, which you know, equalizes everybody and it makes it really nice.

Agustina 9:10
Another thing you can do is instead of going head to heart, you can combine hotel in a hotel to hotel and maybe do one or two nights in the refrigerator. So you had a little feel of it about that. But if you're not, you know, so feet or a little bit you have a mix of levels is much easier for everybody to do it. Or if you want just pure luxury and then you experience the overnight in the refrigerator that is a little bit more rustic, but it's still very nice.

Mimi Lichtenstein 9:37
Yes. And I think it would actually be fun to combine both of those. And then what about in terms of level of accommodations? You definitely want to think about ahead of time do you want to have basic rifugio accommodations or more luxury accommodations or a combination of the two? And typically it would be nice if you're doing a combination of the two to start with the refugios and perhaps end with the luxury accommodations. Yeah,

Agustina 10:01
or you can do in the middle one night, we just we have luxury the rifugio and our two nights refusal. And then the hotels, again, are luxury. In summer, we work with a three star, four star and five star hotels, mostly a lot of them are 95% of the hotels in the Dolomites are family run, depending on the area that you go, some are nicer than others. But I would say for luxury, I will go between four, four s and five star and you have quite a lot of range of those refuges and the hotel, sorry, and then one or two nights in the refugium. So it will be perfect for people that want luxury.

Mimi Lichtenstein 10:42
And then what about I know guided and unguided, there's the option to do both what is your I personally, even if I have the route and have a map, it's always nice having the guide not only just to make sure that you see all the stuff that you might miss otherwise, but also because they're talking to you about their history and the culture, right in the whole area beyond what you're just seeing in front of you. What do you have any idea on how many people typically do it guided versus unguided

Agustina 11:08
with us, mostly everybody that we work with, they do well in winter is fully guided. And in summer, we have 80% guided and 20% self guided people that come self guided, they're totally used to do it. And they're more you know, cheaper trips, etc. Guided, it gives you a lot of flexibility, as you said they guide, you know, they tell you about the history, the geography, culture, etc, you interact much more with the locals because you're with a local, so you're going to refer to who they know for lunch and you know, they know the owners, or maybe you can go and meet the owner, they if you're staying overnight in even in the hotels or sometimes in the in the refrigerator, they definitely introduce you to the family, etc. So that is it gives you a deeper understanding of the local culture in the Dolomites. So it's really I think, is really nice to go with a guy glass, if there were them and all that. And your tire, we can change everything on the same, you know, on the site. Yeah, so it's a little bit more.

Mimi Lichtenstein 12:11
And I think for people who go skiing, sometimes, you know, you go skiing on a new mountain or you go skiing in France for the first time. It's always nice to have a guide, just to lead you around. And perhaps if you've done it the trip a few times and go off on your own, but in the beginning, it's always nice to have their insights. Okay, all right. Well, let's look at some more beautiful photos. So this I think is one rather iconic picture. Yeah.

Agustina 12:34
Yeah. Is it Trichy? Manila Maria, always three big surf Lavaredo. It's in between Veneto and South Tirol. They're very famous. The North faces we're looking at the North famous they're all climbing Dolomites. The first people that came to the Dolomites were people who came to climb. So there's a big history about the mountaineering and climbing world in the Dolomites. And people still come a lot to, to climb actually. And the team around the lava is the one in the A, on the right, and in the middle is a chi merchant rally. And that when you do a lot of climbing in all of them, it's amazing. And then you have hiking all over the place. You can do a whole loop, you have refrigerators, for lunch, etcetera, you can stay overnight, see the sunset. This is in the afternoon, so is beautiful,

Mimi Lichtenstein 13:24
beautiful. And so let's talk a little bit about hiking. So when people give us an idea of the day, obviously, it will depend a little bit on how much terrain you're planning to cover each day, how many miles you're going to hike, but typically, what does it look like if you were to stay in a review? Do you wake up in the morning, you have a nice breakfast, and then what happens what time?

Agustina 13:42
Usually we wake around, you know, 637 and if we just wake up quite early, you having breakfast by 730 is between seven and eight, you know, seven 30 And by 830, pretty much everybody's out on the road in the Dolomites. Specially in summer, in June and July, you can have the thunderstorms so you usually have the in the early afternoon. So and also when you go hiking in the mountains, it's good to leave early and arrived early. You know with the guides and is the philosophy of any place in the world. They go to the mountains, early liberally, liberally liberally and arrive early. So in the refuges you wake up early for breakfast 830 You're gone then you have lunch along the way and by three, four o'clock maybe you're arriving to the next refill depending on how many hours you're hiking here in the Dolomites. We do more not so much miles but is about hours of hiking. So in general you have around actual hiking between four five until seven hours of actual hiking plus all the stops. So it can be a long day or short today.

Mimi Lichtenstein 14:51
Okay. And then when you're stopping for lunch, you are either bringing like a picnic lunch with you from the refugee Have the night before, you might actually go stop in a whole different rifugio just for lunch going?

Agustina 15:05
Yes, depending on the routes in general mostly all of the places you have refrigerators, but there are some areas that you know, you have maybe four hours between one to the other. So you take a pack lunch, also the water you have to carry the water with you. And if not buy it in the refrigerator because in the Dolomites you don't have any places for water, you have a little bit of some lakes, small small lakes, we will call it North Americans and also in South America is more like you know, big ponds. And then some streams but mostly all of the water goes inside the terrain, the rock,

Mimi Lichtenstein 15:41
okay, so definitely bring rock water with you. Good to know, if you are getting to the next review here around three, four o'clock in the afternoon. What's the atmosphere like at the at the rifugio in the afternoon, people just kind of relaxing and putting their feet out.

Agustina 15:55
People is relaxing. Now everybody's on their phone because once you know you have the internet. So you know why five people is taking photos is a great time also to take a nap. Because you charge energy. It's like if you're away from you know from the towns you're away from everything is a refuge for you the mountain. So although it's very civilized, you still quite remote so it's it gives you a lot of time to you know, relax and enjoy and disconnect with the world. And then in the evening around 730 dinner starts around seven 730 And then by you know 930 10 o'clock in general people goes back to bed.

Mimi Lichtenstein 16:37
Okay? Yes, essentially, you're outside enjoying nature being active all day long. For me, this sounds like a perfect type of vacation to do with your teenagers or even a little bit younger kids are calling because, you know, gives you a purpose and you're you're moving and you know, nobody can be on their phone as they're walking through the door to meet face looking around at the spectacular scenery. Right. Okay, incorporating this is a beautiful photo of you on a on a bike ride on a road bike ride. For people who also love to bike. Paradise. It's paradise. Yeah. So do people would somebody do either a bike trip and maybe go head to head or a combination to a combination or a hiking one or do you sometimes have people who do both? We don't

Agustina 17:20
have a lot of combination. They either come to bike or they either come to hike, or we have people that have you know, very fit because Dolomites for biking is quite difficult. The road biking in the Dolomites and also the mountain biking you have a lot of up and down. So here a people who have this photograph of road biking so people that come to roadbike they're usually quite fit and they just come to do that is very famous for the road biking, the Dolomites, the mountain biking we combine them we do multi sport trips. So we have for Adams and also families you have hiking you do a little bit of Via Ferrata, and also mountain biking on translate. These are wider trails, and the road biking is another separate chapter for

Mimi Lichtenstein 18:06
and we have so when I go mountain biking, my preference is to not do like lift assisted mountain biking, I'd much prefer to go out and tackle the up hills and enjoy the downhills. But I know that you were going to show a picture in a few minutes about a lift where somebody is going up at with their mountain bikes. So there also is lift assisted mountain bikes if you want it.

Agustina 18:25
And what is very popular too. Now we have a lot of people coming to ebike. But the ebike also, you have to be a good or you have to have a you have to know how to bike. Yeah, because you know, ebike flat here you go up, down, up, down, and we the bikes are very heavy. No. So going down or even going up that maybe the terrain is a little bit uneven. I think Falls is difficult.

Mimi Lichtenstein 18:50
Yeah. So yeah, it's the technical aspects are important to have a foundation. I've never actually mountain bikes with an E bike, but to your point, right, it's much heavier. So I wouldn't want to fall with that. That's for sure. You see, yeah,

Agustina 19:03
I mean biking and all that. I do it a lot and he's fantastic.

Mimi Lichtenstein 19:07
So amazing. Okay, I want to go with you. Okay, then the next one. Everyone knows my favorite topic via ferratas. I think it's such a fun family activity wherever you are. And there's so many places to do it in the world. My understanding is I think they actually started in Italy during I think it was World War One is that right?

Agustina 19:25
Yes, it was a way of the soldiers Italians going up to the mountains because all the Austrians were on the top. So they had to get up and in order not to be seen on the trails. They started going through the rock and that's how the Via Ferrata is started. And in the Dolomites. We have I don't know over 300 via ferratas I would say around 200 And something there have been historical connotation and then now some they didn't because we have so much rock but it is great way is a great sport is fun. So then you go from the trenches and tunnels Some stuff like that others is like here going up. Very rarely

Mimi Lichtenstein 20:05
are they rated in terms of difficulty?

Agustina 20:07
Yes. Yeah. From easy moderate, very challenging.

Mimi Lichtenstein 20:11
Okay. And it's very challenging mean that you are less connected with the carabiner or it

Agustina 20:17
gentlemen have more exposure, they're more like, you know, overhanging or you need to have you have more strength, but the most difficult thing is the exposure. Okay. You know, we have a lot of

Mimi Lichtenstein 20:30
air. Yeah. And so you could see here, the people this variant, any people scaling

Agustina 20:38
is gonna call the boss and he I think they're going up their centers they have you have ladders, so you have always a cable, we have the guide and everything. And there's another so you got up straight up. And a lot of people they get nervous because you have so much, you know, err on the back.

Mimi Lichtenstein 20:55
Yeah. But yet it's you know, it's secure. You are Caribbean yourself. And it's very exhilarating, I would say.

Agustina 21:02
And these we combine it, a lot of people that come to hike, they do sometimes you combine hiking, mvfr rata, you know, a combination of both, or you do hiking on one or two days of Via Ferrata. These works better than the road biking.

Mimi Lichtenstein 21:19
And then what about in terms of the famous ones? Like are there certain via ferratas that are more famous or more sought after than others?

Agustina 21:29
Yeah, because I'm more of more well known than others because of the historical notation. Yeah, well, there's me

Mimi Lichtenstein 21:36
and what's the one that also is it has like connection with I think it's World War Two, maybe where it has like an open air museum with that one called Magic. Why

Agustina 21:44
do you have that? Those are the tunnels that you go up the refusal and that's why don't you have Via Ferrata Lilia Alpini. And this as these three other sources, three was on the other side of the there is also part of this open air museum, and that one is a ferrata, then you arrive to the mountain and then you hike to the top of the mountain, you have to walk and it's also trenches and tunnels and you get to their cross. Okay, I only stayed out like four years ago, three or four years ago. Yeah. So

Mimi Lichtenstein 22:11
if you have kids who are studying world history, it would be such a fascinating, yes. So explore with them. Yes. And then so people are hiking, they're biking there via ferrati. Maybe they're rock climbing, maybe they're paragliding, which is also an option. And then comes the time where they might want to go luxuriate in a spa somewhere. Let's talk a little bit about that. This happens to be a photo of Adler spa, but there are a variety of hotels that have spas within them, right.

Agustina 22:38
Yes, mostly all of them they this passes in the north of Italy in the South Tyrol. Because we have a big culture of that because Austria is very you know, it comes from Austria and the Austrians are very famous for the day spa wellness etc. So then we got it in South Tirol and that's where we have the hotels in the Dolomites in the North have already nice bass

Mimi Lichtenstein 23:02
okay in this is just one example, but there are several outpaced

Agustina 23:07
by B. Alamitos is a leading hotels of the world and is in the Albury Susi of Evan Palghar. Dana Albini. Suzy is a highest plateau in Europe, to ESA, 2000 meters above sea level. Hotel, the views are spectacular. Very nice. Yeah.

Mimi Lichtenstein 23:26
So yes, you just look at sitting in that swimming pool overlooking the gorgeous Valley and mountains behind it. And then I love talking about unconventional transportation and we already touched on this a little bit, here's a picture of the lift assisted mountain bike but you can also use this again to equalize hiking when you're going with

Agustina 23:43
it. We use it a lot especially when you have people that you know some want to get, or they have problems or etc or they're not so fit. So they can cause others you know, they go hiking, we have the biggest day in winter is the biggest carrier in the world with the ones keep us and it's all connected. And in summer, a lot of the lifts are open so we use them also for hiking and mountain biking. When you go into a Via Ferrata centers, you take a lit Yeah, walking, so we I works.

Mimi Lichtenstein 24:10
And for some people, you know who might want to get up early and go tackle a bigger climb or hike than somebody else the other people can sleep in and then go meet you at the top right a couple hours later,

Agustina 24:20
depending where you are. But yes, yeah. And then

Mimi Lichtenstein 24:23
there's also gondola type rides to go and cable cars to get to the top which will be a fun activity to do even if you didn't need to just to get up there and have more beautiful.

Agustina 24:33
That's why I'm saying it's very open for other people because even if you're not a huge hiker, but you like nature, you can take that and then walk maybe 20 minutes and have a beautiful lunch and then cablecar down

Mimi Lichtenstein 24:44
standing and then the sunsets as you're up here and these, you know, spectacular mountains are equally beautiful. So every night you can, you know, look out your window of your rifugio or your hotel or just go find a little spot on the mountain close by and how Beautiful sunsets like this one.

Agustina 25:02
Yeah, sunset and sunrise are incredible sunrise, you have to wake up early. Yeah. Is Worth It rewards.

Mimi Lichtenstein 25:10
I love sunrises and then food. So people of course, if you're hiking and biking and doing all this, you need to recharge. I think the interesting thing is that these were few heroes, although the food isn't going to be Michelin star, they have a lot of beautiful high quality, you know, local foods that they're feeding you. And there's a place that I don't remember how I heard about it, but it's called Koroma, which is a coffee house and they have classes and Latte arts and and making like perfect cappuccinos and things like that. So that would be fun to add on to your trip as well. And then there's the Michelin star dining. You want to tell them we

Agustina 25:48
have we have a we have one star two or three star Michelin star restaurants in the Dolomites. And then around the Dolomites. There's many others close by. So yeah, you can you can dine really well, gourmet like this. But we also have amazing restaurants, more simpler but really good. And gourmet or classic Italian that is great. And in the refrigerators. The depending on the refrigerator, you have some that are very upscale and the cuisine is very good and more sophisticated. And others is more simple. But it's still very good because in Italy, anywhere you go you eat well. So right you can adapt it for vetted vegetarian, vegan, I don't know whichever you want. We it's possible to do with noise.

Mimi Lichtenstein 26:31
And of course, finding beautiful spots to have a picnic and picnic food doesn't have to just be you know, a sandwich with some cheese also be very elevated depending upon where you are.

Agustina 26:42
Yeah, I have to be careful with the weather but the rest is possible to do.

Mimi Lichtenstein 26:46
Yeah, and then accommodation. So let's dive into a little bit of the details between more luxury hotel accommodations and then the refugios or huts. So this happens to be a photo of Roselle Pina, which is actually in Amman property, one of the nicest ones in the Dola meet days.

Agustina 27:03
Yeah, I would say is the best hotel in the middle of ice.

Mimi Lichtenstein 27:08
Yeah, okay. So there you go. The best hotel in the Dolomites. And you look at that, and you feel like you know where you are, right. Like it looks actually a little bit Austrian?

Agustina 27:16
Yeah. Why this is in Altova. Lea Valley is in South Tyrol. But it's also Aladdin. So the Aladdin people they're very, the language comes from the Roman times, you know, Romans. They speak Latina. And then you speak Italian and German. So there's three languages in this valley. And you see a lot of the locals and in school, everybody speaks that language. Okay. under subpoena is beautiful. And then like the the colossal Pina, we have, I would say is around 1212. Really upscale hotels, five star, very nice four star and then three star. But the nice thing of all these hotels, even the five star is that they're a family, Roland. So for example, this hotel that we're talking particularly familiar with Zeleny is still there you meet all of his wife, the kids are running around. So you know, you have this family thing that in other places in the Alps, you don't get it so much as in the Dolomites is still very authentic.

Mimi Lichtenstein 28:19
And I think that people I know my clients, when they're going places are looking for that experience. And when you have a family owned hotel, you usually feel it right. It just feels differently, that someone's there overseeing things, their history, their family, multiple generations might be around, yeah, it's really nice, and the authenticity shines. And then so here's an example of a refu Heo, which as you can tell from this photo, it almost looks like it's sitting on top of, you know, a blanket of mountains like perched on top of a hill. And this one, tell us a little bit more about this one.

Agustina 28:52
Well, like these rifugio, and many others are set up in the top of the mountains. This one in particular used to be the, the hunting place of this man, France Costner, and then he gave it to the Italian Alpine Club, and now with rifugio has 38 people or 36 people can sleep there. He has a couple of small bedrooms, but it's simple, but the food is amazing. Actually, the owner is one of my best friends here in Italy. Now Christina has she's a cook. So it's very family oriented. But like these refugees, you have many around the donor base and you have others that you have the access this one the only way to get access is by walking other centers, you have the access with a lift, others you arrive there to refrigerate over the passes. And there's only just a refuge when you arrive with a car. So you have a big network of refrigerators everywhere that is always standing the location and even the ones on the past and reason sunset and when there's no one is incredible.

Mimi Lichtenstein 29:50
And so you mentioned that this was owned by somebody it was his hunting cabin, some of the other refugios what's the like history and origin of why they were

Agustina 30:00
sent somewhere just a little hot. And then within time they build it. Others Well, they've been, you know, they will belong to the Italian Alpine Club. So they used to be very, very old and then they fixed them and redid them but, and years and years ago,

Mimi Lichtenstein 30:16
yeah. And so some of them have been from, you know, somebody who would go up there to bring their flock of sheep or you know,

Agustina 30:25
some of them like that for sure, where they had the animals and then they converted them. And others come from the 1800. And I don't know, 1700 they're really old, you have one over the place, or just a small little hut, there usually was just a shepherd that had the hat. And then with the years, they just built it in a refrigerator.

Mimi Lichtenstein 30:43
And some of the mountain hikes that you're doing are actually on the old paths of where they would take the animals to go from here to there, correct?

Agustina 30:51
Yes, and others from also paths from the war or a past that the climbers did, you know, going over the past you go so different trails and with the years they fixed, they keep on you know, doing more trails, etc. It's fun here I think is a wonderful general Wallonie has over 100 years, two years ago was 100 Years celebration.

Mimi Lichtenstein 31:17
I mean, can you imagine what it took to build this back then in this particular location on the top of this mountain, right.

Agustina 31:25
Which are mostly out of the refuges, they have the history of how they were built. So

Mimi Lichtenstein 31:29
yeah, which would be so interesting. Again, so great for kids to write and also to

Agustina 31:34
get also the water in sometimes you know, they don't have water so to get you know, to take a shower, you have to put a coin in the shower, you have a limited time of water for the shower, they bring the water up, so

Mimi Lichtenstein 31:47
yeah, okay. Yeah. So it's not like everything's right outside the door.

Agustina 31:51
So a refusal is a refusal though very nice and luxurious, sometimes but it's a refusal. Is not hotel you don't have the living room. So these are all is the refuge of foreigners. That is you know, you arrive with it, the Jeep can arrive there, so it's much easier and they build it through the years first they started one part and then they build the other you have this one I think is for over 100 people and you have dormitory. You have I think you have some photos of the dormitory like this. They have like six rooms like this and they sleep up to 10 people or 12 people and you share the bathroom.

Mimi Lichtenstein 32:25
Okay, so this one, right for those people who are listening, it's I think, to triple bunk beds and then to double bunk beds. So right 10 People are fitting in this so I really wanted to give people insight into what it looks like inside one of the rifugio and we have I live in New Hampshire and there is an Alpine Club that has a bunch of hats throughout New England as well. And they have a similar concept where they even have some dormitory rooms that might be 20 people and they might not have any private rooms so the key is just finding the right rifugio for you and what you're looking for. And they do book up really far ahead. You and I were talking before we came on in the summer. Would you say that the summer is totally booked up for review here I was in Italy or

Agustina 33:07
or prior dome for a room pretty much Yes. For dormitory you may find but depending on the time of the year.

Mimi Lichtenstein 33:14
Yeah, so good to plan that in advance and this is an example of a private room. So this particular rifugio it has two twin beds we're not talking any king size or California king size beds. Luxury at a rifugio is a private room with two individual beds and this one happens to have a sink and faucet within it. Some of them have bathrooms within it but not all

Agustina 33:39
yes, some also they have bathroom with it and then you have a double bed. Okay, there's similar to this others No, I'll show you some photos of others but it's nice for people to see this because that's what you should think about only Fujio. Then you get there and it's like oh I have a nice double bed. This is fantastic.

Mimi Lichtenstein 33:56
Yeah, but in you it's clean. Like they're their base thing right?

Agustina 34:00
Here we bring we organize knowledge transfer so we give you a sports bag and you put your clothing and your rather your bag is there. And you have a comfortable comforter, you know the towel, everything so it's very nice.

Mimi Lichtenstein 34:14
Yeah. Then you can take a shower and relax and then as far as new hotels go you had given me a little insights into this one you want to tell us about it.

Agustina 34:22
This is a hotel the learning cartina is being read fully renovated. It was another hotel they renovated the house is a boutique luxury five star hotel has 24 rooms and is run by in Baldwin Yatseniuk in Boulia lead to over the you know the running of the hotel is very nice in town of Cortina has a very nice little spot there. The food is great and it's very hip. Very good service. We were working quite a lot with them and good location.

Mimi Lichtenstein 34:56
Yeah, so this would be great to pair with your night or a couple knights and refugio, it looks a little more luxurious, but still actually very natural. When you compare this to the new to picture they're both wood

Agustina 35:07
with Well, first villain means a hotel, they land, the land is the wood.

Mimi Lichtenstein 35:15
Okay, it's beautiful. So it'd be a nice combination. And then we always love to talk about some over the top things. And often that includes helicopters. And in the dopamine days, same thing. So, again, for people who want to get places that aren't easily accessible, taking a helicopter to start a hike, or to end a hike or to get you somewhere special is an option during your head to head hiking.

Agustina 35:39
And yes, it's more because this UNESCO Natural Heritage Site, a helicopter can stop in specific areas not everywhere, right. So we have to see what kind of trip or where you go in. And then we can organize the helicopter, we use it a lot for sightseeing, like, you know, like you arrive or you want to see a view or even you transfer from Venice, that is the closest airport and you arrive to a certain point and then the helicopter and you take all you know, 10 minute ride over the mountains to your hotel. So that's how we use it. And people love it in winter is the same. In winter for skiing, you arrive skiing in one place we get the helicopter will take somewhere else with a band for the hiking is a little bit more complicated how to organize it, but it's beautiful still.

Mimi Lichtenstein 36:29
And would you say what would you recommend if somebody wanted to do really more of like a flight seeing helicopter tour? Would you suggest that they do it at the beginning of their trip so they get an overview of where they're going? Or?

Agustina 36:42
I would do it after after a couple of days of being in the Dolomites.

Mimi Lichtenstein 36:46
Okay, yeah. So you get a really good feel for it from above when the views obviously his pictures, right and pleasing? Yes,

Agustina 36:53
I think it's totally worth it. I do it all the time. Yeah,

Mimi Lichtenstein 36:58
but let's talk a little bit about some of our takeaway tips. One of them about luggage. So when people are hiking from head to head or hotel to hotel, again, they're not carrying a huge, heavy 80 pound backpack. That's not what we're talking about. Luxury hiking, even if you're not staying at luxury places. Tell us a little bit about how that works.

Agustina 37:16
Well, you take a small backpack, you know, they pack 35 liter or 30 liter, with your belongings for just you know, your jacket, your camera, some snacks, water bottle, pretty much doesn't. And then your luggage, you mean when you arrive to the whole you know, the first day when you arrive to the town, you're in the hotel, you leave your luggage, and we give you some sports packs that have 100 liters that you can put your clothing for the next days had to hurt. So then moves from one place to the other. So when you arrived to the rifugio, the new luggage is there with your clothing, I call it glamping. Kind of like that, you know, yeah. So you get your clothes, you change your clothes, and then that one keeps on going for the second day. And then the third day, if you go to the hotel, he goes to the hotel and your luggage is waiting at the hotel. So in the refrigerator is very simple. Why are you dressed and you don't need to change all the time. It's just you know, simple and

Mimi Lichtenstein 38:13
dreamy. I happen to have a college daughter who is doing a semester without or bound right now in the mountains of Oregon. And she is carrying around I think a 60 pound pack with her wherever she goes for about two months. So that compared to this. Yes,

Agustina 38:31
we organize trips for moondance adventures you should google is all for kids. Okay, and it's very upscale. And I remember the first year that kids will bring like these huge backpacks. And we're like, No, we don't need you know, so now the buckets are much smaller.

Mimi Lichtenstein 38:45
Okay, good. You only need so much. I mean, so many of your clothes, your pants or whatever. You're just gonna wear those again the same day anyway. So you touched a little bit on the storms that come in June and July in the afternoon. Tell us a little bit about like, what are the ideal times to for the weather purposes to do this in the Dolomites.

Agustina 39:03
In summer, we start in June, around the 10th of June until the first week of October, pretty much the whole areas, open the refrigerator, then you can extend it until the beginning first week of November, but then the refrigerators are closed. But you can save hotels, I think the best times to come is June and July, August it gets really crowded, because also the all the Italians traveling and Europeans. So I would avoid a little bit of the August, you know, the big August and then in September is spectacular until the 10th of October is beautiful. And this season is extending every year more and more all the fall. That is beautiful.

Mimi Lichtenstein 39:47
Yeah, probably because people can't get in in the summertime. So they just push it a little further out. And would you say outside of August, so August you mentioned obviously a lot of Europeans go on vacation in August. So and it's going to be bigger. In June, July, September, Americans are coming. I imagine some Canadians are like who's coming? Who's coming?

Agustina 40:07
Well, a lot of Americans. Okay, Canadians from some South Americans. Then we get Asians, lots of Asians from Korea. Well, Japan now is close. But we used to have a lot of people from Japan, a Hong Kong, Singapore, Australia, lots of Australians.

Mimi Lichtenstein 40:27
So it's a bit of a melting pot when you're staying in some of these places, you're going to be there with all over the

Agustina 40:31
world. No, no, I have to say that there's a lot of not so many, you know, not so much mix because of COVID. A lot of a lot of North Americans and carriers are starting to come English. Well, then you have a little bit of Asians we're starting to have coming in. But an Australian so Australians they just opened so they're starting to come.

Mimi Lichtenstein 40:55
Yeah, well, Australians are good. They love doing sort of outdoor adventurous. Okay, this has been a wealth of information. I love it. I think that if anybody didn't think about doing this kind of trip before, they certainly will be inspired after our conversation. So I hope even though this summer is rather booked up, plan ahead for 2023. You know, and the earlier you plan, the more flexibility you have. So if you want to stay in a private room and a rifugio. Don't wait to the last minute or you'll be lucky to get a bed in a room with 10 other people.

Agustina 41:26
Yes. Especially especially for the revisions plan ahead. Yeah, well, the rest is easy to do it also last minute, there are difficult. Okay,

Mimi Lichtenstein 41:34
terrific. Well, thank you so much. Augustina. This has been an absolute pleasure. I appreciate your time. And I know you and I will be working on many trips to come in the years ahead. So thank you for

Agustina 41:47
Yeah, and I hope to see you coming to the Dolomites. Now, we have to plan a trip together.

Mimi Lichtenstein 41:52
You know, we do although I am not sure if I'm going to be able to keep up with you. I will certainly worry about that. Okay, well, thank you so much. We'll be in touch.

Agustina 42:02
Thank you. Thank you, Mimi, thank you very much.

Mimi Lichtenstein 42:05
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