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296: László Barabási has spent much of his career studying complex systems, from cells to social networks. This lifelong body of work eventually led him to ask a simple question: what is food actually made of? While nutrition science has identified the components we need for energy and survival, László’s lab has documented roughly 135,000 other molecules in food that sit largely outside the traditional nutritional picture. He believes that network science could eventually help us understand these molecules and food in general (including food-related diseases) with far greater precision. https://realorganicproject.org/laszlo-barabasi-nutritional-dark-matter-in-our-food The Real Organic Podcast is hosted by Dave Chapman and Linley Dixon, engineered by Brandon StCyr, and edited and produced by Jenny Prince. The Real Organic Project is a farmer-led movement working towards certifying 1,000 farms across the United States. Our add-on food label distinguishes soil-grown fruits and vegetables from hydroponically-raised produce, and pasture-raised meat, milk, and eggs from products harvested from animals in horrific confinement (CAFOs - confined animal feeding operations). To find a Real Organic farm near you, please visit: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.realorganicproject.org/directory⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ We believe that the organic standards, with their focus on soil health, biodiversity, and animal welfare were written as they should be, but that the current lack of enforcement of those standards is jeopardizing the ability for small farms who adhere to the law to stay in business. The lack of enforcement is also jeopardizing the overall health of the customers who support the organic movement; customers who are not getting what they pay for at market but still paying a premium price. And the lack of enforcement is jeopardizing the very cycles (water, air, nutrients) that Earth relies upon to provide us all with a place to live, by pushing extractive, chemical agriculture to the forefront. To read our weekly newsletter and get firsthand news about what's happening with organic food, farming and policy, please subscribe here: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.realorganicproject.org/email/⁠

295: Chuck Benbrook returns with a close look at several legal battles involving Driscoll’s and what they may tell us about the enormous influence of the country’s dominant berry companies. He discusses pesticide concerns around schools and farm communities, allegations raised by a former company agronomist, Driscoll’s lawsuit against the food-finding platform Localize, and another legal challenge to the company’s marketing claims brought forth by Beyond Pesticides. He argues that the berry industry already knows how to reduce pesticide risks and expand organic production; the harder question is whether they will ever choose to do it. https://realorganicproject.org/chuck-benbrook-what-driscolls-lawsuits-reveal The Real Organic Podcast is hosted by Dave Chapman and Linley Dixon, engineered by Brandon StCyr, and edited and produced by Jenny Prince. The Real Organic Project is a farmer-led movement working towards certifying 1,000 farms across the United States. Our add-on food label distinguishes soil-grown fruits and vegetables from hydroponically-raised produce, and pasture-raised meat, milk, and eggs from products harvested from animals in horrific confinement (CAFOs - confined animal feeding operations). To find a Real Organic farm near you, please visit: ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.realorganicproject.org/directory⁠⁠⁠⁠ We believe that the organic standards, with their focus on soil health, biodiversity, and animal welfare were written as they should be, but that the current lack of enforcement of those standards is jeopardizing the ability for small farms who adhere to the law to stay in business. The lack of enforcement is also jeopardizing the overall health of the customers who support the organic movement; customers who are not getting what they pay for at market but still paying a premium price. And the lack of enforcement is jeopardizing the very cycles (water, air, nutrients) that Earth relies upon to provide us all with a place to live, by pushing extractive, chemical agriculture to the forefront. To read our weekly newsletter and get firsthand news about what's happening with organic food, farming and policy, please subscribe here: ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.realorganicproject.org/email/⁠

294: Paul Hawken challenges the assumption that industrial agriculture is necessary to feed a growing world. His starting point is the land itself: if chemical farming has contributed to degraded soils, desertification, declining biodiversity, and increasingly fragile food systems, concentrating even more production into that model is hardly a solution. Paul argues instead for restoring life to damaged landscapes and paying much closer attention to the relationship between soil, water, food, and climate. https://realorganicproject.org/paul-hawken-can-chemical-agriculture-feed-world The Real Organic Podcast is hosted by Dave Chapman and Linley Dixon, engineered by Brandon StCyr, and edited and produced by Jenny Prince. The Real Organic Project is a farmer-led movement working towards certifying 1,000 farms across the United States. Our add-on food label distinguishes soil-grown fruits and vegetables from hydroponically-raised produce, and pasture-raised meat, milk, and eggs from products harvested from animals in horrific confinement (CAFOs - confined animal feeding operations). To find a Real Organic farm near you, please visit: ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.realorganicproject.org/directory⁠⁠⁠⁠ We believe that the organic standards, with their focus on soil health, biodiversity, and animal welfare were written as they should be, but that the current lack of enforcement of those standards is jeopardizing the ability for small farms who adhere to the law to stay in business. The lack of enforcement is also jeopardizing the overall health of the customers who support the organic movement; customers who are not getting what they pay for at market but still paying a premium price. And the lack of enforcement is jeopardizing the very cycles (water, air, nutrients) that Earth relies upon to provide us all with a place to live, by pushing extractive, chemical agriculture to the forefront. To read our weekly newsletter and get firsthand news about what's happening with organic food, farming and policy, please subscribe here: ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.realorganicproject.org/email/⁠

293: Author and agroecologist Liz Carlisle has spent years documenting farmers who are building food systems around diversity, resilience, and cooperation rather than extraction. She challenges the idea that we must intensify industrial agriculture in some places in order to “save” nature somewhere else, pointing instead to thousands of years of human history in which people have grown food as part of functioning ecosystems. Liz offers a hopeful picture of what becomes possible when we design agriculture around place. https://realorganicproject.org/liz-carlisle-land-sharing-how-we-feed-the-future The Real Organic Podcast is hosted by Dave Chapman and Linley Dixon, engineered by Brandon StCyr, and edited and produced by Jenny Prince. The Real Organic Project is a farmer-led movement working towards certifying 1,000 farms across the United States. Our add-on food label distinguishes soil-grown fruits and vegetables from hydroponically-raised produce, and pasture-raised meat, milk, and eggs from products harvested from animals in horrific confinement (CAFOs - confined animal feeding operations). To find a Real Organic farm near you, please visit: ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.realorganicproject.org/directory⁠⁠⁠⁠ We believe that the organic standards, with their focus on soil health, biodiversity, and animal welfare were written as they should be, but that the current lack of enforcement of those standards is jeopardizing the ability for small farms who adhere to the law to stay in business. The lack of enforcement is also jeopardizing the overall health of the customers who support the organic movement; customers who are not getting what they pay for at market but still paying a premium price. And the lack of enforcement is jeopardizing the very cycles (water, air, nutrients) that Earth relies upon to provide us all with a place to live, by pushing extractive, chemical agriculture to the forefront. To read our weekly newsletter and get firsthand news about what's happening with organic food, farming and policy, please subscribe here: ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.realorganicproject.org/email/⁠

292: Congresswoman Chellie Pingree has spent years working at the intersection of farming, food, health, and federal policy. She sees growing concern about pesticides and ultra-processed foods coming from people across the political spectrum, creating a rare opportunity for alliances that did not exist before. But turning that agreement into policy means confronting powerful agricultural and chemical interests, rebuilding support for small and mid-sized farms, and deciding what role government should play in protecting eaters. Congresswoman Pingree also challenges the growing enthusiasm for loosely defined “regenerative” agriculture, arguing that without meaningful standards it can easily be co-opted by the same industrial system that organic was created to change. https://realorganicproject.org/chellie-pingree-can-healthy-food-bring-left-right-together The Real Organic Podcast is hosted by Dave Chapman and Linley Dixon, engineered by Brandon StCyr, and edited and produced by Jenny Prince. The Real Organic Project is a farmer-led movement working towards certifying 1,000 farms across the United States. Our add-on food label distinguishes soil-grown fruits and vegetables from hydroponically-raised produce, and pasture-raised meat, milk, and eggs from products harvested from animals in horrific confinement (CAFOs - confined animal feeding operations). To find a Real Organic farm near you, please visit: ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.realorganicproject.org/directory⁠⁠⁠⁠ We believe that the organic standards, with their focus on soil health, biodiversity, and animal welfare were written as they should be, but that the current lack of enforcement of those standards is jeopardizing the ability for small farms who adhere to the law to stay in business. The lack of enforcement is also jeopardizing the overall health of the customers who support the organic movement; customers who are not getting what they pay for at market but still paying a premium price. And the lack of enforcement is jeopardizing the very cycles (water, air, nutrients) that Earth relies upon to provide us all with a place to live, by pushing extractive, chemical agriculture to the forefront. To read our weekly newsletter and get firsthand news about what's happening with organic food, farming and policy, please subscribe here: ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.realorganicproject.org/email/⁠

291: Corinne Hansch and her husband Matthew Leon started farming during one of the hardest financial periods of their lives. Years later, Lovin’ Mama Farm has become a thriving organic business built around intensive production, direct relationships with customers, and an extraordinary diversity of crops and products. Corinne explains why they stopped wholesaling, how six weekly farmers markets transformed their cash flow, why microgreens remain an important year-round crop, and how flowers, herbs, perennial crops, value-added products, and a loyal customer base all contribute to financial stability. She also talks candidly about women in agriculture, raising a family while farming, paying employees year-round, and creating a business that supports both the people working on the farm and the community eating its food. https://realorganicproject.org/corinne-hansch-small-farms-can-make-great-living The Real Organic Podcast is hosted by Dave Chapman and Linley Dixon, engineered by Brandon StCyr, and edited and produced by Jenny Prince. The Real Organic Project is a farmer-led movement working towards certifying 1,000 farms across the United States. Our add-on food label distinguishes soil-grown fruits and vegetables from hydroponically-raised produce, and pasture-raised meat, milk, and eggs from products harvested from animals in horrific confinement (CAFOs - confined animal feeding operations). To find a Real Organic farm near you, please visit: ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.realorganicproject.org/directory⁠⁠⁠⁠ We believe that the organic standards, with their focus on soil health, biodiversity, and animal welfare were written as they should be, but that the current lack of enforcement of those standards is jeopardizing the ability for small farms who adhere to the law to stay in business. The lack of enforcement is also jeopardizing the overall health of the customers who support the organic movement; customers who are not getting what they pay for at market but still paying a premium price. And the lack of enforcement is jeopardizing the very cycles (water, air, nutrients) that Earth relies upon to provide us all with a place to live, by pushing extractive, chemical agriculture to the forefront. To read our weekly newsletter and get firsthand news about what's happening with organic food, farming and policy, please subscribe here: ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.realorganicproject.org/email/⁠

290: Antitrust scholar Zephyr Teachout explains how monopoly power has reshaped food, retail, health care, media, technology, and nearly every other part of American life. A handful of grocery companies now control much of the marketplace, while dominant distributors use kickbacks and other questionable methods to control of shelf space. Zephyr lays out practical ways states can begin reversing that concentration. Drawing on the history of farmer-led populist movements, she argues that real food depends on democratic markets, strong communities, and alliances capable of challenging corporate oligarchy. https://realorganicproject.org/zephyr-teachout-reorganizing-food-systems-for-real-food The Real Organic Podcast is hosted by Dave Chapman and Linley Dixon, engineered by Brandon StCyr, and edited and produced by Jenny Prince. The Real Organic Project is a farmer-led movement working towards certifying 1,000 farms across the United States. Our add-on food label distinguishes soil-grown fruits and vegetables from hydroponically-raised produce, and pasture-raised meat, milk, and eggs from products harvested from animals in horrific confinement (CAFOs - confined animal feeding operations). To find a Real Organic farm near you, please visit: ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.realorganicproject.org/directory⁠⁠⁠⁠ We believe that the organic standards, with their focus on soil health, biodiversity, and animal welfare were written as they should be, but that the current lack of enforcement of those standards is jeopardizing the ability for small farms who adhere to the law to stay in business. The lack of enforcement is also jeopardizing the overall health of the customers who support the organic movement; customers who are not getting what they pay for at market but still paying a premium price. And the lack of enforcement is jeopardizing the very cycles (water, air, nutrients) that Earth relies upon to provide us all with a place to live, by pushing extractive, chemical agriculture to the forefront. To read our weekly newsletter and get firsthand news about what's happening with organic food, farming and policy, please subscribe here: ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.realorganicproject.org/email/⁠

Today, we are sharing an episode from the Signal Award-winning and 2026 Ambie Award-nominated podcast No Small Endeavor. Hosted by award-winning teacher and Professor of Theology and Ethics Lee C. Camp, No Small Endeavor explores what it means to live a good life, uncovering the habits, practices, and dispositions that facilitate human flourishing. In this episode, marine biologist, policy expert, and New York Times bestselling author Ayana Elizabeth Johnson who wrote What If We Get It Right? Visions of Climate Futures. Ayana asks a question that reframes everything: how do you respond to climate change with joy? Those two words, climate change, can fill us with dread, anxiety, and doom. Advocates for action are often fueled by breakneck urgency, but for many, that outlook is paralyzing. Johnson argues there is another way. "This is the work of our lifetime," she says, "so why don't we find ways to make it delightful?" In this conversation, she explains why the climate crisis is no less dire than the news makes it seem, but why climate activism must be rooted in hope and joy to be truly sustainable. Follow and listen to more episodes of No Small Endeavor here: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/no-small-endeavor-with-lee-c-camp/id1513178238

289: Teri McCall joins us to reflect on the life she built with her husband Jack, a farmer, before his death from non-Hodgkin’s lymphoma. She talks about the early Monsanto litigation regarding Roundup (glyphosate) and why she chose to speak out publicly even when doing so felt frightening. Teri spoke at the People vs Poisons event in the spring of 26, just before the Supreme Court granted Bayer- Monsanto legal immunity against pesticide lawsuits. https://realorganicproject.org/teri-mccall-cancer-roundup-supreme-court The Real Organic Podcast is hosted by Dave Chapman and Linley Dixon, engineered by Brandon StCyr, and edited and produced by Jenny Prince. The Real Organic Project is a farmer-led movement working towards certifying 1,000 farms across the United States. Our add-on food label distinguishes soil-grown fruits and vegetables from hydroponically-raised produce, and pasture-raised meat, milk, and eggs from products harvested from animals in horrific confinement (CAFOs - confined animal feeding operations). To find a Real Organic farm near you, please visit: ⁠⁠⁠https://www.realorganicproject.org/directory⁠⁠⁠ We believe that the organic standards, with their focus on soil health, biodiversity, and animal welfare were written as they should be, but that the current lack of enforcement of those standards is jeopardizing the ability for small farms who adhere to the law to stay in business. The lack of enforcement is also jeopardizing the overall health of the customers who support the organic movement; customers who are not getting what they pay for at market but still paying a premium price. And the lack of enforcement is jeopardizing the very cycles (water, air, nutrients) that Earth relies upon to provide us all with a place to live, by pushing extractive, chemical agriculture to the forefront. To read our weekly newsletter and get firsthand news about what's happening with organic food, farming and policy, please subscribe here: ⁠⁠⁠https://www.realorganicproject.org/email/⁠

Former Wall Street banker John Fullerton traces the personal journey that led him to question the foundations of modern economics, inspired by witnessing 9/11 in real time and finding the seminal book "Limits to Growth." John explains why an economy dependent on perpetual material growth cannot remain stable on a finite planet, and why many of today’s ecological, social, political, and financial crises are deeply interconnected. Looking to living systems for guidance, he explores how cooperation, resilience, decentralization, healthy circulation, and attention to place could reshape finance and commerce. https://realorganicproject.org/john-fullerton-regenerative-economics-living-world The Real Organic Podcast is hosted by Dave Chapman and Linley Dixon, engineered by Brandon StCyr, and edited and produced by Jenny Prince. The Real Organic Project is a farmer-led movement working towards certifying 1,000 farms across the United States. Our add-on food label distinguishes soil-grown fruits and vegetables from hydroponically-raised produce, and pasture-raised meat, milk, and eggs from products harvested from animals in horrific confinement (CAFOs - confined animal feeding operations). To find a Real Organic farm near you, please visit: ⁠⁠https://www.realorganicproject.org/directory⁠⁠ We believe that the organic standards, with their focus on soil health, biodiversity, and animal welfare were written as they should be, but that the current lack of enforcement of those standards is jeopardizing the ability for small farms who adhere to the law to stay in business. The lack of enforcement is also jeopardizing the overall health of the customers who support the organic movement; customers who are not getting what they pay for at market but still paying a premium price. And the lack of enforcement is jeopardizing the very cycles (water, air, nutrients) that Earth relies upon to provide us all with a place to live, by pushing extractive, chemical agriculture to the forefront. To read our weekly newsletter and get firsthand news about what's happening with organic food, farming and policy, please subscribe here: ⁠⁠https://www.realorganicproject.org/email/⁠

#286: Soil scientist and educator James Cassidy explains why the ground beneath us is far more than a medium for growing crops. Soil stores water and nutrients, supports biological communities, shapes regional food cultures, and has influenced the rise of nations and civilizations. Cassidy explores how grasslands and grazing animals created some of the world’s richest agricultural soils, how microbes make atmospheric nitrogen available to plants, and why farmers need both scientific measurements and direct observation of their land. He also challenges rigid prescriptions around no-till farming, organic matter, biological testing, and soil amendments, arguing that healthy agriculture depends on understanding the particular soil, climate, crop, and community involved. https://realorganicproject.org/james-cassidy-soil-civilization-future-farming The Real Organic Podcast is hosted by Dave Chapman and Linley Dixon, engineered by Brandon StCyr, and edited and produced by Jenny Prince. The Real Organic Project is a farmer-led movement working towards certifying 1,000 farms across the United States. Our add-on food label distinguishes soil-grown fruits and vegetables from hydroponically-raised produce, and pasture-raised meat, milk, and eggs from products harvested from animals in horrific confinement (CAFOs - confined animal feeding operations). To find a Real Organic farm near you, please visit: ⁠https://www.realorganicproject.org/directory⁠ We believe that the organic standards, with their focus on soil health, biodiversity, and animal welfare were written as they should be, but that the current lack of enforcement of those standards is jeopardizing the ability for small farms who adhere to the law to stay in business. The lack of enforcement is also jeopardizing the overall health of the customers who support the organic movement; customers who are not getting what they pay for at market but still paying a premium price. And the lack of enforcement is jeopardizing the very cycles (water, air, nutrients) that Earth relies upon to provide us all with a place to live, by pushing extractive, chemical agriculture to the forefront. To read our weekly newsletter and get firsthand news about what's happening with organic food, farming and policy, please subscribe here: ⁠https://www.realorganicproject.org/email/⁠

#286: "Drilled" host Amy Westervelt shares her deep knowledge of corporate propaganda, climate politics, and how the hidden systems that influence our consent as a society or as an entire population have been constructed. Pretty alarming stuff to say the least! She shows us how industries protect themselves by shaping not only markets, but the very terms of public debate - using think tanks, amicus briefs, and strategic greenwashing campaigns. https://realorganicproject.org/amy-westerveldt-think-tanks-greenwashing-war-on-reality The Real Organic Podcast is hosted by Dave Chapman and Linley Dixon, engineered by Brandon StCyr, and edited and produced by Jenny Prince. The Real Organic Project is a farmer-led movement working towards certifying 1,000 farms across the United States. Our add-on food label distinguishes soil-grown fruits and vegetables from hydroponically-raised produce, and pasture-raised meat, milk, and eggs from products harvested from animals in horrific confinement (CAFOs - confined animal feeding operations). To find a Real Organic farm near you, please visit: ⁠https://www.realorganicproject.org/directory⁠ We believe that the organic standards, with their focus on soil health, biodiversity, and animal welfare were written as they should be, but that the current lack of enforcement of those standards is jeopardizing the ability for small farms who adhere to the law to stay in business. The lack of enforcement is also jeopardizing the overall health of the customers who support the organic movement; customers who are not getting what they pay for at market but still paying a premium price. And the lack of enforcement is jeopardizing the very cycles (water, air, nutrients) that Earth relies upon to provide us all with a place to live, by pushing extractive, chemical agriculture to the forefront. To read our weekly newsletter and get firsthand news about what's happening with organic food, farming and policy, please subscribe here: ⁠https://www.realorganicproject.org/email/⁠

#285: Mark Doudlah shares his story of being a proud chemical farmer who fully transitioned to organic after a devastating family loss. He reflects on his father’s cancer, the culture of “feeding the world” that influences so many Midwestern growers and how the glyphosate he once relied on to farm still poisons his family's drinking water. He also celebrates he tools, cover crops, and growing methods that helped his farm find a different path. https://realorganicproject.org/mark-doudlah-glyphosate-cancer-real-organic-farming The Real Organic Podcast is hosted by Dave Chapman and Linley Dixon, engineered by Brandon StCyr, and edited and produced by Jenny Prince. The Real Organic Project is a farmer-led movement working towards certifying 1,000 farms across the United States. Our add-on food label distinguishes soil-grown fruits and vegetables from hydroponically-raised produce, and pasture-raised meat, milk, and eggs from products harvested from animals in horrific confinement (CAFOs - confined animal feeding operations). To find a Real Organic farm near you, please visit: https://www.realorganicproject.org/directory We believe that the organic standards, with their focus on soil health, biodiversity, and animal welfare were written as they should be, but that the current lack of enforcement of those standards is jeopardizing the ability for small farms who adhere to the law to stay in business. The lack of enforcement is also jeopardizing the overall health of the customers who support the organic movement; customers who are not getting what they pay for at market but still paying a premium price. And the lack of enforcement is jeopardizing the very cycles (water, air, nutrients) that Earth relies upon to provide us all with a place to live, by pushing extractive, chemical agriculture to the forefront. To read our weekly newsletter and get firsthand news about what's happening with organic food, farming and policy, please subscribe here: https://www.realorganicproject.org/email/

#284: Nicola Shirley-Phillips joins us to explore the crossroads facing Jamaican agriculture. She reflects on Ital food traditions, the spread of Green Revolution farming, the pressure of exports and imported processed foods, and the need to reconnect farmers, consumers, and policymakers to a more ecological, organic vision. Along the way, she introduces her idea of “organic intelligence” and describes why Jamaica could become a regional force for cleaner food if more people start asking where their food comes from and how it is grown. https://realorganicproject.org/nicola-shirley-phillips-growing-organic-jamaica The Real Organic Podcast is hosted by Dave Chapman and Linley Dixon, engineered by Brandon StCyr, and edited and produced by Jenny Prince. The Real Organic Project is a farmer-led movement working towards certifying 1,000 farms across the United States. Our add-on food label distinguishes soil-grown fruits and vegetables from hydroponically-raised produce, and pasture-raised meat, milk, and eggs from products harvested from animals in horrific confinement (CAFOs - confined animal feeding operations). To find a Real Organic farm near you, please visit: https://www.realorganicproject.org/directory We believe that the organic standards, with their focus on soil health, biodiversity, and animal welfare were written as they should be, but that the current lack of enforcement of those standards is jeopardizing the ability for small farms who adhere to the law to stay in business. The lack of enforcement is also jeopardizing the overall health of the customers who support the organic movement; customers who are not getting what they pay for at market but still paying a premium price. And the lack of enforcement is jeopardizing the very cycles (water, air, nutrients) that Earth relies upon to provide us all with a place to live, by pushing extractive, chemical agriculture to the forefront. To read our weekly newsletter and get firsthand news about what's happening with organic food, farming and policy, please subscribe here: https://www.realorganicproject.org/email/

We have a special episode to share with you this week from our friends at the State of Seed podcast, produced by the International Seed Federation and the podcast team at Foreign Policy magazine: https://foreignpolicy.com/podcasts/state-of-seed/ Hosted by Laura Rosbrow-Telem, State of Seed focuses on how seeds feed and sustain the planet. Each episode features sound-rich explorations with innovative players advancing this vital resource, including leaders of multinational companies and NGOs, UN and government officials, national seed associations, scientists, and of course, farmers. You’ll hear about the key concerns keeping them up at night.  To introduce you to their great show, we’re sharing their series premiere titled “How Seeds Feed the World,” where they travel to the Netherlands to attend the centennial World Seed Congress and their annual gathering of seed leaders, including Beth Bechdol, Deputy Director-General of the Food and Agriculture Organization of the UN. Bechdol comes from a grain farming family going back seven generations, and she has great insights into what the policy world misunderstands about agriculture and the key barriers farmers face in accessing quality seed.  If you enjoy today’s episode, be sure to check out State of Seed, available on your favorite podcast app. And tell them, Real Organic Podcast sent you!