Advertise on podcast: Pass the Baton: Empowering Students in Music Education, a Podcast for Music Teachers

In episode 120, we talk with choral music educator Ocie Banks about what happens when teachers move out of the center of the learning and give students real ownership of the music classroom. Ocie shares how he gradually transfers responsibility to his middle school choir students, from leading warm-ups and conducting rehearsals to serving as section leaders and choral librarians, and how those opportunities help students develop confidence, independence, collaboration, and leadership skills. His goal is simple: to “teach yourself out of a job” and give students the skills they need to succeed without the teacher at the center. Ocie also takes us behind the scenes of a student-created arrangement of Michael Jackson’s “Human Nature,” where students developed harmonies, explored solfege, made artistic decisions, and taught one another. We talk about the importance of asking questions, trying students’ ideas, putting teacher ego aside, and creating space for students to make meaningful musical choices. Throughout the conversation, Ocie reminds us that students are capable of far more than we sometimes expect—and that giving them ownership can transform not only their musicianship, but the culture and sense of community in the classroom. Connect with Ocie and learn more:  Website: http://www.ociesbanks.com Instagram: @ociesbanksA note from our Sponsor, Rehearsal Dashboard Pro:  A single-file, no-login daily rehearsal dashboard for music directors. Save your warm-up, method book, and repertoire titles once and reuse them with a checkbox. Plan ahead, copy previous days in one click, and let the auto-countdown and scrolling reminders ticker do the rest. Works for daily, A/B, or twice-a-week schedules. Check it out on Teachers Pay Teachers or at Teaching Music & More. Support the show Learn more about Pass the Baton Pass the Baton websiteJoin the Coffee ClubSupport Pass the BatonAmplify student voice with Exit Tickets for Self Reflection

In episode 119, Theresa and Kathryn talk with Tim Bupp about rethinking what school music is really for, and what happens when we stop treating the concert as the curriculum. Tim shares how his district has expanded access to music through Modern Band, creating opportunities for students whose musical identities might not fit traditional ensembles. Together, they explore how relevance, accessibility, and lifelong engagement can serve as guiding principles for music programs, while still supporting strong musical learning. Tim also shares practical examples of putting students in the driver's seat: composing and improvising, making interpretive decisions, leading rehearsals, evaluating their own playing, and solving musical problems rather than simply following directions. From using GarageBand and Padlet to turning ensemble rehearsals over to student conductors, his approach emphasizes authorship, creativity, productive struggle, and meaningful student choice. The conversation ends with a simple challenge for teachers: hand one decision you would normally make to your students, and then actually use their answer. Connect with Tim and learn more:  LinkedIn - Timothy BuppEmail - [email protected] A note from our sponsor, Rehearsal Dashboard Pro:  A single-file, no-login daily rehearsal dashboard for music directors. Save your warm-up, method book, and repertoire titles once and reuse them with a checkbox. Plan ahead, copy previous days in one click, and let the auto-countdown and scrolling reminders ticker do the rest. Works for daily, A/B, or twice-a-week schedules. Check it out on Teachers Pay Teachers or at Teaching Music & More. Support the show Learn more about Pass the Baton Pass the Baton websiteJoin the Coffee ClubSupport Pass the BatonAmplify student voice with Exit Tickets for Self Reflection

In episode 118, Kathryn and Theresa talk with elementary music teacher Ashley Cobb about creating music classrooms where students are active participants, creators, and decision-makers. Ashley shares how her own experiences as a young musician shaped her commitment to making music accessible and meaningful for every student. Drawing on music learning theory, improvisation, and modern band pedagogy, she describes how small opportunities for creativity can grow into a classroom culture where students choose repertoire, arrange and write their own music, collaborate with one another, and take ownership of their musical experiences. Ashley also talks about her evolving role as a music educator—from teacher to facilitator—and the intentional work that makes student independence possible. From inviting students to suggest songs and instruments to creating opportunities for peer teaching and leadership, Ashley demonstrates how seemingly small choices can shift the center of the classroom toward students. Throughout the conversation, she reminds us that student-centered teaching doesn't require a complete overhaul. Instead, it can begin with a simple pause: What could I let my students decide? Connect with Ashley and learn more:  Email: [email protected] website: https://www.cte.richland2.org/Instagram: @ashleyecobb, @missashleycobb_maoMusic Will Support the show Learn more about Pass the Baton Pass the Baton websiteJoin the Coffee ClubSupport Pass the BatonAmplify student voice with Exit Tickets for Self Reflection

In episode 117, Theresa and Kathryn talk with Jazzmone Sutton, Senior Manager of State Advocacy and Equity at NAfME, about rethinking what music education advocacy can look like. Jazzmone challenges the idea that advocacy is simply “sharing the good news” about our programs, instead describing effective advocacy as getting others to act positively on behalf of students and educators—and doing that work proactively. A key part of that advocacy? Students themselves. Jazzmone shares powerful stories of elementary students identifying what they needed, creating opportunities to make music beyond the classroom, and even advocating directly with a principal for a middle school choir. The conversation also explores how student ownership and advocacy are deeply connected. When students understand why music matters to them, have opportunities to lead, and see themselves as drivers of their own musical journeys, they become authentic advocates for music education. Jazzmone offers practical encouragement for teachers who feel uncomfortable advocating, reminding us that a “no” from one person isn't a “no” from everyone; and that doing advocacy work often means getting comfortable with discomfort, building relationships, and refusing to simply accept the status quo when students deserve better. Connect with Jazzmone and learn more:  Email Jazzmone - [email protected] Advocate for Music Education The Music Education Advocate PodcastSupport the show Learn more about Pass the Baton Pass the Baton websiteJoin the Coffee ClubSupport Pass the BatonAmplify student voice with Exit Tickets for Self Reflection

What if your next concert piece became the starting point for an unforgettable learning experience? In episode 116, Theresa and Kathryn welcome back middle school band director Kyle Rinke to explore how interdisciplinary projects can transform students' connections to music. From museum visits and collaborative art projects to poetry, mindfulness, and even performing in a natural rock amphitheater, Kyle shares how he builds meaningful experiences around concert repertoire that help students engage with music on a much deeper level. Kyle also offers practical advice for teachers who want to try something new without feeling like everything has to be perfectly planned. He discusses collaborating with colleagues across subject areas, balancing rehearsal time with creative exploration, embracing imperfection, and focusing on memorable experiences over flawless performances. Whether you're ready to plan an ambitious cross-curricular project or simply looking for a small way to help students connect more deeply with the music they play, this conversation is full of inspiring ideas and actionable takeaways. Connect with Kyle and learn more:  Email: [email protected]: Martino Band at Starved RockEpisode 108: Centering Students, Creating Community, with Jaime Escatel and Kyle RinkeA note from our Sponsor:  You Love Teaching. But Is the Job Taking Too Much From You? Nobody becomes a music educator because they want to spend their evenings answering emails, worrying about budgets, planning fundraisers, organizing trips, or lying awake thinking about everything they didn't get done. We do it because we love changing students' lives. But somewhere along the way, many of us begin sacrificing our own health, relationships, and well-being in the process. We convince ourselves that's just part of the job. It doesn't have to be. I'm Lesley Moffat, host of the Band Director Boot Camp podcast, and after years of burnout that seriously impacted my own health, I discovered there was a better way. That's why I wrote I Love My Job, But It's Killing Me, a practical guide to helping educators reclaim their time, protect their well-being, and continue doing the work they love without sacrificing themselves. I'd love to send you a free copy. Visit mpowerededucator.com/freebook and take the first step toward amplifying your impact, not your workload. Support the show Learn more about Pass the Baton Pass the Baton websiteJoin the Coffee ClubSupport Pass the BatonAmplify student voice with Exit Tickets for Self Reflection

Welcome to Season 6 of the Pass the Baton podcast! As a new school year begins, Kathryn and Theresa kick off the season by looking beyond lesson plans, classroom setup, and first-day logistics to explore the invisible decisions that shape the entire year. Through five reflective questions, they discuss what teachers can truly control, what students should own, how classroom routines communicate trust, when compliance is necessary (and when it isn't), and which traditions are worth keeping—or reimagining. Together, they challenge listeners to create learning environments that prioritize student ownership, creativity, and meaningful engagement from day one. Rather than offering another back-to-school checklist, this conversation encourages educators to begin the year with intentionality. Kathryn and Theresa share practical examples from their own classrooms while reminding listeners that small mindset shifts can have a lasting impact on students' confidence and growth. The episode concludes with a simple intentions exercise, inviting teachers to reflect on what they want students to leave their classroom believing, what they will stop doing this year, and what they want students to truly own as learners. Join the Back-to-School Challenge!  Check out the Coffee Club back-to-school sale - good through August 31, 2026.  A note from our Sponsor: You Love Teaching. But Is the Job Taking Too Much From You? Nobody becomes a music educator because they want to spend their evenings answering emails, worrying about budgets, planning fundraisers, organizing trips, or lying awake thinking about everything they didn't get done. We do it because we love changing students' lives. But somewhere along the way, many of us begin sacrificing our own health, relationships, and well-being in the process. We convince ourselves that's just part of the job. It doesn't have to be. I'm Lesley Moffat, host of the Band Director Boot Camp podcast, and after years of burnout that seriously impacted my own health, I discovered there was a better way. That's why I wrote I Love My Job, But It's Killing Me, a practical guide to helping educators reclaim their time, protect their well-being, and continue doing the work they love without sacrificing themselves. I'd love to send you a free copy. Visit mpowerededucator.com/freebook and take the first step toward amplifying your impact, not your workload. Support the show Learn more about Pass the Baton Pass the Baton websiteJoin the Coffee ClubSupport Pass the BatonAmplify student voice with Exit Tickets for Self Reflection

In this Best Of episode, we revisit our conversation with Australian composer and educator Jodie Blackshaw. A self-described "composing first educator," Jodie shares how her background in composition, teaching, and Orff-Schulwerk has shaped her belief that all students should have opportunities to create, explore, and think like composers. Her student-centered approach challenges traditional ensemble models by placing creativity, ownership, and musical decision-making at the heart of learning. Throughout the conversation, Jodie discusses the importance of scaffolding creative experiences, building safe environments where students feel comfortable taking risks, and helping young musicians develop both independence and self-discipline. Whether you teach band, choir, orchestra, or general music, this episode offers practical ideas for empowering students and creating classrooms where learning grows through curiosity, experimentation, and creativity. Connect with Jodie and Learn More:  Website: Jodie BlackshawTeaching Performance Through CompositionRhythm and Pitch Pack #1 Support the show Learn more about Pass the Baton Pass the Baton websiteJoin the Coffee ClubSupport Pass the BatonAmplify student voice with Exit Tickets for Self Reflection

As part of our Best of Pass the Baton series, we're revisiting one of our favorite conversations from the podcast archives. If you're interested in creating a music classroom where students experience greater autonomy, creativity, and joy, this episode is one you won't want to miss. In this encore presentation of Episode 77, Kathryn and Theresa sit down with Grammy Music Educator of the Year Stephen Cox as he shares his unique approach to music education and discusses his work with the Willis Wonderland Foundation. Drawing on his 14-year teaching career in Texas, Stephen reflects on how he developed a progressive, student-centered approach to band that prioritized student voice, intrinsic motivation, and meaningful musical experiences. He shares how empowering students to lead and make decisions transformed both his teaching and his students' growth. Stephen also introduces the work of the Willis Wonderland Foundation, where he is helping develop free songwriting resources for teachers. Created to honor the legacy of legendary songwriter Allee Willis, the foundation provides educators with tools to inspire creativity through songwriting and student expression. Whether you're hearing this conversation for the first time or listening again, Stephen's ideas offer a compelling vision for how creative freedom and student empowerment can transform music classrooms. Connect with Stephen and learn more:  Website: https://stephentcox.com/The Willis Wonderland FoundationResources suggested by Stephen:  Ungrading: Why Rating Students Undermines Learning (and What to Do Instead)Drive: The Surprising Truth About What Motivates UsWhy We Do What We Do: Understanding Self-MotivationPunished By Rewards: Twenty-Fifth Anniversary Edition: The Trouble with Gold Stars, Incentive Plans, A’s, Praise, and Other BribesSupport the show Learn more about Pass the Baton Pass the Baton websiteJoin the Coffee ClubSupport Pass the BatonAmplify student voice with Exit Tickets for Self Reflection

As part of our Best of Pass the Baton series, we're revisiting one of our favorite conversations from the podcast archives. If you've ever wondered how to create greater student ownership and engagement in your ensemble, this episode is full of practical ideas and inspiration. In this encore presentation of Episode 62, Kathryn and Theresa talk with Kathleen Jacoby, a high school band director in Fairfax, Virginia. Kathleen’s teaching philosophy revolves around student ownership and engagement in the music program, drawing from her own experiences in a small band program where every member's contribution was vital. She shares innovative strategies she employs to involve students in decision-making processes, such as selecting pieces and contributing to rehearsal methods. The interview delves into her approach to empowering students by fostering a sense of community, responsibility, and critical listening skills. Kathleen’s methods aim to develop not just musical skills but also life skills like leadership, collaboration, and independent thinking. She is dedicated to making music education a transformative experience for students, ensuring that it contributes positively to their overall growth and development. Connect with Kathleen and Learn More: Virginia Band Directors Inclusion Toolkit Learn more about Pass the Baton Pass the Baton website Join the Coffee Club Support Pass the Baton Amplify student voice with Exit Tickets for Self Reflection Support the show Learn more about Pass the Baton Pass the Baton websiteJoin the Coffee ClubSupport Pass the BatonAmplify student voice with Exit Tickets for Self Reflection

As part of our Best of Pass the Baton series, we're revisiting one of our favorite conversations from the podcast archives. We say we want music education for all students, but how do we actually reach ALL students? Dr. Shane Colquhoun shares how we can take steps toward a more student-centered approach in music education. In this encore presentation of Episode 53, Kathryn and Theresa talk with Dr. Shane Colquhoun, an assistant professor of music technology and contemporary styles at Alabama State University. Shane discusses the importance of rethinking traditional approaches to music education by challenging the notion of "music education for all," arguing that current programs often cater only to students with specific musical interests, such as classical instruments, while neglecting those interested in contemporary or popular music. He advocates for a more student-centered approach, where educators ask students what they want to learn and tailor the curriculum accordingly. Shane also emphasizes the need to train future teachers to be open to different forms of musicianship and to be willing to adapt their methods to better serve a diverse student body. Connect with Shane and Learn More: Website: Music and Ed Book, The Producers of Pop Instagram: @MusicandEd Learn more about Pass the Baton: Pass the Baton websiteJoin the Coffee Club Support Pass the BatonAmplify student voice with Exit Tickets for Self Reflection Support the show Learn more about Pass the Baton Pass the Baton websiteJoin the Coffee ClubSupport Pass the BatonAmplify student voice with Exit Tickets for Self Reflection

In this Season 5 finale episode, Theresa and Kathryn reflect on the school year, celebrate major milestones, and revisit some of the most meaningful themes from the season. Theresa shares highlights from completing her PhD dissertation research on why music educators listen to podcasts, revealing that teachers value podcasts not only for practical ideas and professional learning, but also for the emotional connection and validation they provide. Together, Theresa and Kathryn discuss how podcasts can help educators feel less isolated and more connected to a larger community of music teachers who are all striving to better serve students. The conversation also revisits key ideas that surfaced throughout the season, including student voice and choice, belonging, lifelong musicianship, creative approaches to performance, and expanding the definition of what music education can look like. Referencing guests and episodes from across the season, Theresa and Kathryn reflect on how small instructional shifts can lead to more empowered, student-centered classrooms. As they look ahead to Season 6, they encourage listeners to spend the summer reflecting on one tradition, belief, or routine in their teaching that might be worth reimagining in order to better support all students and create more meaningful musical experiences. Learn more about Pass the Baton: Pass the Baton websiteJoin the Coffee Club Support Pass the Baton Amplify student voice with Exit Tickets for Self Reflection Other episodes referenced: Episode 90, with Chris GleasonEpisode 94, with Corie BentonEpisode 96, with Rebecca SensorEpisode 98, with Darlene MachaconEpisode 102, with Rhoda BernardEpisode 103, with Emily LangerholcEpisode 104, with Amelia ArmstrongEpisode 105, with Merlin Thompson Episode 109, with Mary CogswellEpisode 111, with Meagan ThorupEpisode 113, with Eric Songer Support the show Learn more about Pass the Baton Pass the Baton websiteJoin the Coffee ClubSupport Pass the BatonAmplify student voice with Exit Tickets for Self Reflection

In episode 113, Theresa and Kathryn sit down with Eric Songer, a veteran middle school music educator, to explore what it really means to move from “music for all” to “all music.” Drawing from his own unconventional path into music—sparked by pop radio and a love for popular culture—Eric shares how his teaching philosophy centers on expanding access to music-making beyond traditional ensembles. He describes how incorporating genres like rock, hip hop, bluegrass, and mariachi, along with opportunities in songwriting, production, and student-led ensembles, creates more entry points for students to engage meaningfully with music. Eric offers a wide range of practical strategies for bringing this vision to life, from launching after-school “School of Rock” programs to embedding composition, improvisation, and music technology into the regular band curriculum. He also highlights the importance of student agency—encouraging teachers to say “yes” to student ideas, even when it means learning alongside them. Throughout the conversation, Eric emphasizes that these approaches don’t detract from traditional programs but instead deepen student engagement, broaden participation, and help more students see themselves as musicians. Connect with Eric and Learn More: WebsiteYouTube Channel Facebook Instagram Resources from this Episode: Association for Popular Music Education Shed the MusicMusic Will 3 Strings Episode 53 - The Most Important Question You can Ask in Music EducationEpisode 112 - We Know We Can: Building Community Through Hip-Hop Learn more about Pass the Baton: Pass the Baton websiteJoin the Coffee ClubSupport Pass the BatonAmplify student voice with Exit Tickets for Self Reflection Support the show Learn more about Pass the Baton Pass the Baton websiteJoin the Coffee ClubSupport Pass the BatonAmplify student voice with Exit Tickets for Self Reflection

In this episode, Theresa and Kathryn are joined by Andrew Wang, a K–12 music teacher who brings hip-hop culture to life in a neurodivergent-centered classroom. Drawing from his own experiences as a neurodivergent learner, Andrew shares how hip-hop became both a personal outlet and a powerful teaching tool. He describes his work in an inclusive school setting, where music supports not only musical growth but also communication, confidence, and social-emotional development. By incorporating elements like beatboxing, call-and-response, and student-selected music, Andrew creates an engaging environment where all students can participate and feel a sense of belonging. Throughout the conversation, Andrew emphasizes that hip-hop is more than just music, it’s a culture rooted in community, identity, and expression. He highlights practical ways teachers can bring hip-hop into any classroom, from general music to traditional ensembles, while still meeting standards and maintaining intentionality. The discussion also explores how hip-hop can foster deeper student connections, encourage critical thinking, and support lifelong musical engagement. Ultimately, Andrew makes a compelling case for expanding what counts as “valuable” in music education, showing how culturally relevant, student-centered approaches can empower learners of all backgrounds. Connect with Andrew and Learn More: Email: [email protected]: Neuro Hip Hop Links: https://popl.co/card/LtviKNP9/1/dash Additional Resources from this Episode Book - Hip Hop Can Save America, by Manny Faces Book - Yonkers the Lost City of Hip Hop, by Jerome Enders Book - For White Folks Who Teach in the Hood, by Chris Emdin Book - From White Folks Who Teach in the Hood, by Chris Emdin and Sam Seidel Website: We Got Our Own Thang - Real Talk from AJ WoodsonNeurodivergent Music Network Learn more about Pass the Baton Pass the Baton Book Study through VanderCook College of Music Pass the Baton website Join the Coffee Club Support Pass the Baton Amplify student voice with Exit Tickets for Self Reflection Support the show Learn more about Pass the Baton Pass the Baton websiteJoin the Coffee ClubSupport Pass the BatonAmplify student voice with Exit Tickets for Self Reflection

In Episode 111, Meagan Thorup shares her journey toward building a music classroom centered on creativity, reflection, and lifelong musicianship. Grounded in the belief that she is not training professional musicians but equipping students with skills they can carry beyond school, Meagan describes how her teaching has evolved through continuous experimentation and student feedback. She highlights the power of incorporating composition into ensemble settings, walking through her process of scaffolded, collaborative class compositions that move from simple melodies to student-led arrangements. Through trial and error - and a willingness to listen when things don’t work - Meagan has created experiences where students take ownership, discover their creative voice, and feel a genuine sense of pride in what they create. The conversation also explores how to cultivate independence through intentional practice and accountability. Meagan explains her shift away from traditional practice logs toward a more reflective, skill-based approach that helps students learn how to practice effectively. By integrating accountability partners, peer collaboration, and ongoing reflection, students not only improve musically but also develop habits they can apply beyond the classroom. Throughout the episode, Meagan emphasizes the importance of viewing teaching as a partnership with students - one where their voices, ideas, and experiences shape the learning process. Listeners will walk away with practical strategies and a powerful reminder: when students are given ownership and the space to create, they can exceed our expectations in meaningful and surprising ways. Connect with Meagan and Learn More: Website: My Happy Teaching LifeOrchestra Music: Starlight Tango Orchestra Music - Through the Fog YouTube Channel - Music Theory Pro Tips Other Resources to Check Out: Book: Atomic Habits, by James ClearBook: The Talent Code, by Daniel Coyle Pass the Baton Book Study, VanderCook College of MusicEpisode 109: Programming for Agency: Choosing Repertoire That Empowers StudentsConnect with Pass the Baton: Pass the Baton website Join the Coffee ClubSupport Pass the BatonAmplify student voice with Exit Tickets for Self Reflection Support the show Learn more about Pass the Baton Pass the Baton websiteJoin the Coffee ClubSupport Pass the BatonAmplify student voice with Exit Tickets for Self Reflection

In episode 110, Theresa and Kathryn are joined by Alexis Ganos and Krista Witak, two middle school orchestra teachers who co-teach in a unique, collaborative model designed to foster student agency. They share how their program has evolved over time; from rethinking traditional structures to creating a more student-centered environment where learners take ownership of their musical growth. Through intentional use of learning targets, student choice, reflective journaling, and flexible assessments, Alexis and Krista empower students to understand their progress, set goals, and engage more deeply in the learning process. The conversation also highlights how small, intentional shifts - like giving students leadership roles, involving them in repertoire decisions, and helping them create realistic practice plans - can lead to meaningful change. Alexis and Krista also reflect on the critical role of collaboration in this work, emphasizing how co-teaching, professional learning communities, and even informal connections with colleagues have shaped their teaching and supported their growth. They remind us that building student agency doesn’t happen overnight, but through consistent, thoughtful steps, and that we don’t have to do that work alone. Connect with Alexis and Krista Email Alexis Email Krista Learn more about Pass the Baton: Pass the Baton website Join the Coffee Club Support Pass the Baton Amplify student voice with Exit Tickets for Self Reflection Support the show Learn more about Pass the Baton Pass the Baton websiteJoin the Coffee ClubSupport Pass the BatonAmplify student voice with Exit Tickets for Self Reflection