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“You can see how important storytelling is to fascism and to MAGA and to ICE. And that type of narrative is seductive to a whole lot of people, not just white people but to a lot of other people as well, and it's yoked to many other narratives around what is the United States, what is American power, what is going to benefit American power, what's going to erode American power. So there's a tremendous amount of phobia around who constitutes the other or the others to the United States, and it goes way, way back, obviously, to the origins of the country.” –Viet Thanh Nguyen “This really is such a thread throughout the book. Solo el pueblo salva al pueblo, only we the people can save the people, has become a theme. Because what happened in 2025 through now is people were realizing, Who's coming to save us? The state is attacking us. When the state is attacking us, who do we turn to? We can only turn to one another. This was really remarkable, and I think it was such an important aspect to showcase because what it did was it gave people confidence. –Sonali Kolhatkar In this episode of the Speaking Out of Place podcast, Professor David Palumbo-Liu talks with Sonali Kolhatkar and Viet Thanh Nguyen about a new book edited by Sonali entitled Breaking ICE: Community Defense Against State Terror and MAGA Fascism. The book is comprised of interviews Sonali conducted with activists, organizers, intellectuals and artists from a rich diversity of locations—from Chicago, Los Angeles, Minneapolis, and other major cities, to small towns in Georgia, Maine, the Carolinas, and elsewhere.  We talk about the broad ideological formations that support State Terror and Fascism, as well as the ways people have wielded soft power with tactics and strategies such as mutual aid, Know Your Rights, power mapping, networking, and rapid response. Viet specifically talks about the power of counter-narratives that tap into radical imaginings and utopian thinking. We speak of the ways people from all walks of life have risen to the task of keeping each other safe. (0:00) ICE, MAGA, Fascism, and American Power (3:34) The Origins of the Anti-ICE Movement (11:47) Soft Power and the National Day Laborer Organizing Network (15:15) The Role of Social Media in Humanizing Immigrants (19:43) Demographic Shifts and the Rise of Authoritarian Panic (26:15) Individualism vs. Collectivist Culture (32:19) Reevaluating Democratic Party Platforms and Abolition (38:57) Challenging the United States in the Inter-American Courts (42:40) Divesting from Militarism and Investing in Safety (46:11) The Cyclical Nature of History and Enduring Resistance Episode Website www.palumbo-liu.comhttps://speakingoutofplace.comBluesky @palumboliu.bsky.socialInstagram @speaking_out_of_place

“I think that Jews have become extremely solipsistic in a way that is embarrassing. It's very much contrary to the way I was brought up, which was not to talk about yourself, which was to talk about other people and to serve other people. That was part of the heritage that I received from the Holocaust and from my family's background as refugees was, “You're not a refugee. You've got it pretty good. You live in America.” We were very much exhorted against that and exhorted to serve other people and to try to do something good in the world. And so I hope this will be one tiny little part of something that will make a change for the Palestinians.” In this episode of the Speaking Out of Place podcast, Professor David Palumbo-Liu talks with Benjamin Moser about his new book, Anti-Zionism: A Jewish History. A book of immense historical and geographic reach, Anti-Zionism conveys its arguments through the lives of twelve Jewish anti-Zionists. From the 19th century Polish-Jewish rabbi Aaron Samuel Tamares to the contemporary photographer and activist Nan Goldin, we learn how Jews have fought against the reduction of the traditional, expansive notion of Jewishness open to and in service to the world, to a form of narrow ethno-nationalism, closed off to all how do not subscribe to its genocidal settler colonial logic. We learn how many of these figures foretold precisely the perpetual cycles of violence Zionism has unleashed. One of the reasons Moser wrote this book is contained in this statement. I offer it as a contribution to the movement by so many noble people who are working to construct an alternative vision of Jewish life, one that is free from racism, nationalism, and militarism. It is an attempt to say, especially to younger people, that we are not the first, and that we do not need to start afresh. (0:00) The Jewish Heritage of Service vs. Solipsism (8:10) Theodor Herzl's Zionist Writings (16:29) The Sensitive Rabbi: Aaron Samuel Tamares (22:16) The Tragic Fate of Jacob Israël de Haan (27:53) Hannah Arendt and the Backlash to Eichmann (41:25) A Spiritual Catastrophe for Judaism Episode Website www.palumbo-liu.com https://speakingoutofplace.com Bluesky @palumboliu.bsky.social Instagram @speaking_out_of_place

“I think first of all that in order to have disillusion, you need to have illusion and I really want to sort of take a stand in the name of being a delusional person, you know? I do think illusions are necessary to our sense of creativity, and we need to fall in love with extreme projects, and we need to have ideas that are sometimes unsustainable. We need to dream big in order to be creative and feel alive. The illusions that are a part of Aqua are larger illusions. They're illusions that have to do with my adult life. They're connected to nature and the presence or absence of water, the illusion that we can keep sustaining a city even though the water has run out.” My guest today, Chiara Barzini, has spent her life navigating the literal and cultural fault lines between Italy and California. Today we will discuss her book, Aqua: A Story of Water and Lost Dreams, and her life as an artist living between two countries. In her acclaimed 2017 novel, Things That Happened Before the Earthquake, she wrote about arriving in the San Fernando Valley just weeks after a catastrophic natural disaster and the illusions of the '90s. In Aqua, she examines nature, the California water crisis and the broken dreams of the Hollywood machine. We talk about family, film, art as an act of faith and our collective ecological coming of age, where the end of empire meets the end of abundance, and the consequences of hypercapitalism and colonialism. What does it mean to stare our illusions in the eye and find the courage to imagine a better future? (0:00) The Necessity of Illusions (1:40) Chiara Barzini, Author, Screenwriter (4:44) The End of Empire and Ecological Anxiety (12:15) The Allure and Cruelty of Capitalism (16:07)   Aqua: A Reading - On Hollywood and Water (21:02) Screenwriter Robert Towne and the Legacy of Chinatown (26:20) AI Consumption and Water Bankruptcy (30:23) The Edge of Apocalypse and Bombay Beach (33:41) The Etruscans and the Art of Dying (42:33) Translation and Creativity (44:28) Raising Children in a Crazy World (47:30) Poetry, Ruins, and The Waste Land (57:33) Scents and Sounds of Rome and Los Angeles (01:04:17) The Connection with Animals and Nature (01:07:35) The Evolution of Love and Compassion (01:09:17) The Memory Museum (01:13:00) We Are in This Lifetime Together Episode Website www.creativeprocess.info/pod Instagram:@creativeprocesspodcast

Chiara Barzini has spent her life navigating the literal and cultural fault lines between Italy and California. Today we will discuss her book, Aqua: A Story of Water and Lost Dreams, and her life as an artist living between two countries. In her acclaimed 2017 novel, Things That Happened Before the Earthquake, she wrote about arriving in the San Fernando Valley just weeks after a catastrophic natural disaster and the illusions of the '90s. In Aqua, she examines nature, the California water crisis and the broken dreams of the Hollywood machine. We talk about family, film, art as an act of faith and our collective ecological coming of age, where the end of empire meets the end of abundance, and the consequences of hypercapitalism and colonialism. What does it mean to stare our illusions in the eye and find the courage to imagine a better future? (0:00) Water as Power (2:17) The Necessity of Illusions (4:24) Aqua: A Reading - On Hollywood and Water (7:51) The Edge of Apocalypse & Writing (9:10) The Etruscans and the Art of Dying (13:13) Translation and the Creative Spark (14:38) Raising Children in a Crazy World (16:18) Poetry, Ruins, and The Waste Land (18:48) Scents and Sounds of Two Cities (Rome and Los Angeles) (20:43) The Connection with Animals and Nature (22:54) The Evolution of Love and Compassion (24:12) The Memory Museum (27:04) We are in this lifetime together Episode Website www.creativeprocess.info/pod Instagram:@creativeprocesspodcast

Today, we have a conversation about time, memory, and the bittersweet geography of human sorrow. Georgi Gospodinovis widely considered one of the most daring voices in contemporary European literature. His acclaimed novel, The Physics of Sorrow, won the prestigious Jan Michalski Prize in 2016, blending ancient myth and quantum physics to chronicle the delicate realities of post-socialist Eastern Europe. Joining him is Angela Rodel, a brilliant linguist, musician, and translator whose profound artistic empathy carries the flowing cadences of the Bulgarian language into vivid English. Together, this extraordinary creative duo made history by winning the 2023 International Booker Prizefor Time Shelter—the first book written in Bulgarian to ever receive the honor. Time Shelter is a masterfully dark, funny, and prescient novel. It begins with an enigmatic psychiatrist opening a clinic that treats Alzheimer’s patients by meticulously recreating past decades to match their internal clocks. But the experiment quickly escapes the clinic walls, triggering a pan-European crisis where entire nations hold democratic referendums to choose which era of the past they will retreat into. It is a book that holds up a mirror to our own world, exploring what happens when a civilization faces a deficit of meaning and tries to weaponize nostalgia. (0:00) The Trap of Nostalgia (1:22) The Nonlinear Approach to Storytelling (3:53) Translating the Atmosphere (4:31) The Pandemic of the Past (6:37) Death and the Gardener (9:49) The Translators Calling (11:00) Slowing Down Time (13:14) Storytelling vs Propaganda (15:54) Translating the Atmosphere (18:19) What makes a good life? What has given your life meaning? (20:56) Reflections on God and the Stories His Grandmother Told Him (23:43) The Importance of Hugging, Empathy and Storytelling Episode Website www.creativeprocess.info/pod Instagram:@creativeprocesspodcast

“We are in the middle of a labyrinth which suggests to us many fake corridors. What's the superpower of literature? Literature is like an antidote against propaganda. Propaganda explains the world easily in a two-dimensional way.  Literature gives you a more complex explanation. Literature tells personal stories.” Today, we have a conversation about time, memory, and the bittersweet geography of human sorrow. Georgi Gospodinovis widely considered one of the most daring voices in contemporary European literature. His acclaimed novel, The Physics of Sorrow, won the prestigious Jan Michalski Prize in 2016, blending ancient myth and quantum physics to chronicle the delicate realities of post-socialist Eastern Europe. Joining him is Angela Rodel, a brilliant linguist, musician, and translator whose profound artistic empathy carries the flowing cadences of the Bulgarian language into vivid English. Together, this extraordinary creative duo made history by winning the 2023 International Booker Prizefor Time Shelter—the first book written in Bulgarian to ever receive the honor. Time Shelter is a masterfully dark, funny, and prescient novel. It begins with an enigmatic psychiatrist opening a clinic that treats Alzheimer’s patients by meticulously recreating past decades to match their internal clocks. But the experiment quickly escapes the clinic walls, triggering a pan-European crisis where entire nations hold democratic referendums to choose which era of the past they will retreat into. It is a book that holds up a mirror to our own world, exploring what happens when a civilization faces a deficit of meaning and tries to weaponize nostalgia. (0:00) The Trap of Nostalgia (2:13) The Art of Translation (5:44) The Pandemic of the Past (11:30) Reading from ‘Time Shelter’ (14:28) Death and the Gardener (19:34) The Translator's Calling (26:05) Cultural Rhythms of the Bulgarian Language (30:00) The Nonlinear Approach to Storytelling (34:30) Separating Personal and Historical Pasts (42:55) Storytelling vs Propaganda (47:19) Bodies, Animals and the Loneliness of the Minotaur (56:00) Reading ' Eight Minutes and 19 Seconds’ (1:00:28) What makes a good life? What has given your life meaning? (1:04:18)   Childhood, Memory and Imagination (1:10:38) Reflections on God and the Stories His Grandmother Told Him (1:17:20) Education and the Empathic Imagination (1:23:25) The Museum of Memory (1:26:15) The Importance of Hugging and Empathy (1:28:02) AI and the Future of Humanity Episode Website www.creativeprocess.info/pod Instagram:@creativeprocesspodcast

“Lincoln Center is multiple stages. I think probably over three dozen stages across 16 acres. It is a vast canvas in and of itself. And then we have this beautiful plaza that leads to this beautiful campus, and that’s the visual I think that most people have when they think of Lincoln Center is this beautiful fountain in the center and these three gorgeous buildings.It’s New York’s biggest plaza, and it feels very vibrant and beautiful. In the summer, we really take that plaza and we transform it into a dance floor. So this idea of also interrupting what people’s notion of Lincoln Center is because it’s a space that is very aspirational, which is a great thing.” Shanta Thake is the Chief Artistic Officer at Lincoln Center for the Performing Arts—the nation's largest performing arts complex. Before stepping into this role, she spent nineteen years at The Public Theater, shaping the city's cultural landscape through Joe's Pub and expansive community initiatives. Today, she is tearing down walls—both the literal barriers separating Lincoln Center from its neighbors, and the figurative ones that dictate who belongs in our cultural spaces. She views the arts not as a luxury, but as essential civic infrastructure. We are pleased to have Shanta Thake to discuss her journey, the power of radical curation, and the future of public performance. (0:00) Reimagining Lincoln Center (2:27) Art and the Human Experience (4:40) The Curiosity of Childhood (5:44) Alvin Ailey and the Pivot (8:29) The Invisible Arts (9:06) The Power of Public Theater (17:03) Curation, Programming and the Art of Listening (23:42) San Juan Hill and The Wall (31:23) Art as the Oldest Technology (35:02) globalFEST: Music and Connection (38:20) Finding Universal Belonging (41:20) The Gift of Pause (54:27) A Collective Caretaking Episode Website www.creativeprocess.info/pod Instagram:@creativeprocesspodcast

"I really do believe that the arts are critical to how we move forward together, and live performance in particular, I think, is a way of us practicing how to move across our ideological boundaries and find one another and imagine these new worlds together and create together." Shanta Thake is the Chief Artistic Officer at Lincoln Center for the Performing Arts—the nation's largest performing arts complex. Before stepping into this role, she spent nineteen years at The Public Theater, shaping the city's cultural landscape through Joe's Pub and expansive community initiatives. Today, she is tearing down walls—both the literal barriers separating Lincoln Center from its neighbors, and the figurative ones that dictate who belongs in our cultural spaces. She views the arts not as a luxury, but as essential civic infrastructure. We are pleased to have Shanta Thake to discuss her journey, the power of radical curation, and the future of public performance. (00:00) Reimagining Lincoln Center (03:09) A Collective Caretaking (03:47) The Technology of Human Creation (04:20) The Curiosity of Childhood (09:25) San Juan Hill and The Wall (14:20) globalFEST: Music and Connection (16:06) The Gift of Pause (17:20) A Collective Caretaking Episode Website www.creativeprocess.info/pod Instagram:@creativeprocesspodcast

Today, we examine how we will adapt to a changing climate and learn to listen to the Earth.(0:00) Abrahm Lustgarten(Reporter, ProPublica) (3:00) Jon Gertner (Author, The Ice at the End of the World) (5:32) Bill Hare (CEO, Climate Analytics) (6:35) Rob Nixon (Prof. Environmental Humanities, Princeton) (8:12) Louis de Jaeger (Co-founder, Food Forest Institute) (10:06) Kathleen Rogers (Pres., EarthDay.org) (11:31) Rebecca Tickell (Filmmaker, Groundswell) (13:42) Ben Goldfarb (Author, Crossings) (14:56) Jane Madgwick (CEO, Plantlife International) (19:23) Jason deCaires Taylor (Sculptor, Underwater Museums) (21:02) William McDonough (Architect, Cradle to Cradle) (23:19) Euan Nisbet(Scientist, Royal Holloway) (26:06) Roland Geyer (Author, The Business of Less) (28:15) Ron Gonen (CEO, Closed Loop Partners) (29:34) Paul Shrivastava (Co-President, Club of Rome) (30:14) Carlo Ratti (Architect, Dir., MIT Senseable City Lab) (31:24) Osprey Orielle Lake (Founder, WECAN) (32:38) Liza Featherstone (Journalist) (33:41) Yolanda Kakabadse (Fmr. President, WWF) For more, listen to their full interviews Episode Site: https://www.creativeprocess.info/interviews-featured/anth-regen

Today, we hear from writers Yann Martel, Carl Safina and David George Haskell on the practice of listening to the living world. Tom Chi discusses the dangerous volatility of a one-degree shift. Clayton Aldern explores how climate change alters brain health and behavior, while Ami Vitale,Osprey Orielle Lake and Martín Von Hildebrand remind us of the kinship we share with nature. Fred Pearce discusses 40 years as a journalist reporting on climate from around the world, while Richard Black of the environmental think tank Ember and Paula Pinho, European Commission’s Chief Spokesperson, talk about policy, hope and the radical empathy required to protect the planet for future generations. (0:00) Clayton Page Aldern – Finding awe and beauty in the world (0:40) David George Haskell – On consequences of humans tuning out the sounds of the living world (2:11) Yann Martel – How animals ask us to step out of our humanity (3:12) Carl Safina – The interior lives of non-human animals (5:08) Ami Vitale – Environmental collapse and human conflict (6:37) Martín von Hildebrand – Indigenous views of nature (8:00) Richard Black – Transition to clean energy vs. massive fossil fuel subsidies (10:01) Tom Chi – Climate destabilization (11:07) Paula Pinho – Europe’s vision for energy independence (14:04) Osprey Orielle Lake – Māori concept of "I am the river and the river is me” (16:08) Bill Hare – On limiting global warming to 1.5 degrees (17:19) Fred Pearce – Finding hope in nature’s resilience To hear more from each guest, listen to their full interviews. Episode Website www.creativeprocess.info/pod @creativeprocesspodcast

Why does our economy treat environmental destruction as an inevitable side effect rather than a massive design flaw? How can shifting our focus from polarizing "talkers" to practical "builders" literally save the planet? We are repeatedly told that the climate crisis is too vast and volatile to solve, but what if the true obstacle is simply bad design? Tom Chi is a physicist, designer, inventor, and investor whose work has shaped everything from Google Glass and rapid prototyping at Google X to some of the most ambitious climate technologies being built today. He’s now the founding partner of At One Ventures, where he invests in deep-tech companies focused on a bold goal: a world where humanity is a net positive to nature. Tom’s new book, Climate Capital: Investing in the Tools for a Regenerative Future, reframes economics itself—not as a fixed law, but as a design discipline that can be reimagined to align with the physical realities of our planet. Drawing on science, systems thinking, and lessons from nature, the book offers a grounded, practical framework for moving beyond both climate doom and empty optimism—and toward real, regenerative solutions. Today’s conversation is about what Tom calls the 4Cs: Capital, Compassion, Climate, and Community—but also about agency, responsibility, and what becomes possible when we stop treating the future as something that happens to us and start designing it deliberately. 0:00) Build Integrity: Choosing Builders Over Talkers Why prioritizing those who physically create solutions over those who merely debate them is essential for systemic change (1:21) Overcoming Powerlessness Through Creativity, Critical Thinking, Community Compassion Utilizing a specific framework of portable skills to move from climate anxiety into meaningful, iterative action (2:22) Capital Misallocation: Taxing What We Want to See A critique of current tax structures that burden labor while under-taxing capital and failing to serve societal needs (3:47) The Volatility Gap: Why Average Temperatures Mislead Understanding why increasing climate volatility—rather than just average temperature rise—is the true driver of human distress (6:19) Economics As Design: Redesigning The Global Engine Moving beyond "physics envy" in economics to treat the global market as a discipline that can be redesigned for better outcomes (9:11) Depth Over Breadth: Reforming Education Through Experience (13:30) Local Resilience: How Cities Can Lead The Transformation Practical, block-by-block strategies for urban adaptation, from expanding tree canopies to improving household efficiency (16:33) AI and Robotics in Agriculture (19:12) Human-Centric AI: Flipping The Priority Of Automation (20:18) Thinking In Pictures: A Language Beyond Words Episode Website www.creativeprocess.info/pod Instagram:@creativeprocesspodcast

“In the book I spend a bunch of time basically teaching skills and teaching frameworks of thinking. Not to indoctrinate, it's not a framework like an ideology where you need to believe exactly these things. This is a lot more about how does one use their minds effectively to solve problems that have been solved before. Of course, I work on things that have to do with investment and climate and the future of the economy and automation. The main things I'm trying to teach in the book are skills around creativity, critical thinking, community compassion and frameworks around how to go and use that on problems that should be relatively portable to a bunch of problems that are meaningful to you. The way that education needs to change is that people need to actively be working on things that truly matter to them so that over time they end up being able to go make that difference.” Tom Chi is a physicist, designer, inventor, and investor whose work has shaped everything from Google Glass and rapid prototyping at Google X to some of the most ambitious climate technologies being built today. He’s now the founding partner of At One Ventures, where he invests in deep-tech companies focused on a bold goal: a world where humanity is a net positive to nature. Tom’s new book, Climate Capital: Investing in the Tools for a Regenerative Future, reframes economics itself—not as a fixed law, but as a design discipline that can be reimagined to align with the physical realities of our planet. Drawing on science, systems thinking, and lessons from nature, the book offers a grounded, practical framework for moving beyond both climate doom and empty optimism—and toward real, regenerative solutions. Today’s conversation is about what Tom calls the 4Cs: Capital, Compassion, Climate, and Community—but also about agency, responsibility, and what becomes possible when we stop treating the future as something that happens to us and start designing it deliberately. (0:00) Overcoming Powerlessness through Creativity, Critical Thinking, Community Compassion Why broad hopelessness about the future is a purposeful tactic to maintain the status quo. (7:16) How average temperature metrics fail to communicate the true danger of extreme climate volatility. (11:54) Economics as Design (17:11) Multi-disciplinary Learning Centered on Real-World Impact (26:12) Local Resilience (31:15) Tax & Capital Misallocation (36:52) Build Integrity (45:32) AI and Robotics in Agriculture (51:08) The First Honeybee Vaccine (56:11) The Entropy Curve of Pollution (1:15:31) Human-Centric AI Flipping the priority of automation to serve the collective good rather than enriching a select few (1:20:59) Thinking in Pictures How learning to communicate and problem-solve without language fueled a career in deep tech invention Episode Website www.creativeprocess.info/pod Instagram:@creativeprocesspodcast

Salwa and Selma Mikou are the founders of Paris-based Mikou Architecture. Born in Fez, Morocco and educated in Paris, they have spent the last two decades reimagining the relationship between the built environment and the cultural landscape. After honing their craft under two of the world’s most iconic architects, Jean Nouvel and Renzo Piano, they founded their own studio. For them, architecture is a living interaction with landscape and what they call the Atlas of Resonance, interpreting the hidden layers of a territory, geology, memory, and craft. It is a philosophy that rejects the generic, seeking instead to weave together technological innovation with local materials. Whether it is a mosque in the north of England or a hybrid innovation hub in a former royal manufactory, their work asks a fundamental question: How does space shape the way we think, learn and remember? They were selected by Rem Koolhaas to represent Morocco at the Venice Biennale. Most recently, they were commissioned by Hermès to create a 17,000-square-meter facility that bridges industrial performance with poetic expression. At the heart of their practice is a belief that architecture is not just about building—it’s about shaping relationships: between people, between past and future, between technology and craft. (0:03) Architecture as a Living Transformation (1:42) The Intuitive Knowledge of Living Art (2:20) Preserving the Human Core of Expression (3:14) The Medina and the Geometry of Childhood (6:35) The Social Spaces of Rooftops (8:27) The Twin Dynamic and Confrontation with 'l'autre' (10:21) Contextual Echoes & Traces of the Site (12:12) The Temples of Water (13:15) The Mosque as Pure Spatiality (15:49) Building Culture with Yves Saint Laurent & Pierre Bergé (16:57) The Wast ed-dar (وسط الدار) and the Heart of a Building (18:31) The Smells and Sounds of Home (19:44) Balance, Nature, and Sisterhood Episode Website www.creativeprocess.info/pod Instagram:@creativeprocesspodcast

Step into the deep time of the forest floor, where a single fallen leaf contains the history of the world, and invisible fungal networks hum with ancient conversations. Biologist and acclaimed author David George Haskell reveals a staggering truth: we are completely dependent on the botanical world, and our belief in strict human individuality is a biological illusion. Haskell has spent much of his life training himself to see the universal within the infinitesimally small. He's famously sat for a year in a single square meter of Tennessee's forest, a mandala experience that revealed the deep history of the world through a single fallen leaf. He's a two-time finalist for the Pulitzer Prize for his books The Forest Unseen and Sounds Wild and Broken, and he received the John Burroughs Medal for The Songs of Trees. His work often focuses on what he calls the unwaged labor of the natural world, the complex biological communities that sustain our planet without a monetary ledger. And his latest book is How Flowers Made Our World. In it, he argues that we are essentially grass apes dependent on the ancient innovations of flowering plants for two-thirds of our daily calories. (0:00) How Flowers Made Our World (1:33) Networked Connection is the Foundation of Life (2:00) Contemplating the Small (4:07) Consciousness, Intelligence & Memory in the More-Than-Human-World (4:18) We Are Grass Apes (5:41) Memories of His Childhood in Paris & Wild Orchids (6:34) The Networked Intelligence of Forests (7:45) The Earth in Full Song (8:46) The Practice of Listening (10:11) Escaping the Screen: Real Connections in the Classroom (11:35) The True Cost of AI (12:11) Transforming Ourselves (14:23) Silence Without Expectation (15:32) A Sensory Legacy for the Future Episode Website www.creativeprocess.info/pod Instagram:@creativeprocesspodcast

Two weeks away from filming her most ambitious film to date, Cherien Dabis and her crew were forced to evacuate Palestine as the devastating events of October 2023 began. Instead of abandoning the project, they adapted, filming across Cyprus, Jordan, and Greece, creating a cinematic love letter to the resilience, joy, and humanity of the Palestinian people. My guest today is Cherien Dabis. She’s a filmmaker and actress who has spent much of her career trying to fill the silences in the American narrative. In 2022, she became the first Palestinian to receive an Emmy nomination. She has worked on everything from The L Word to Ozark, Only Murders in the Building to the hit Netflix series Mo, always with an eye toward breaking the one-dimensional mold that has historically defined Arab representation in the West. But her latest project is perhaps her most ambitious yet. It’s a film called All That’s Left of You. It follows one Palestinian family across three generations, beginning in 1948 and ending in 2022. It is a story of exile and memory, and it’s Jordan’s official submission for this year’s Academy Awards. (0:00) The Inheritance of TraumaCherien Dabis discusses how collective trauma is passed down and the importance of showing Palestinian resilience and humanity (1:50) Inherited Trauma: Identity And History The passage of trauma requires a multi-generational lens to truly understand how history and political events shape people (2:37) The Bakri Acting Dynasty: Collaborative Lineage Collaborating with four generations of the Bakri Family brought immense authenticity to the screen (4:02) Filming The Nakba: Art Imitating Crisis Evacuating Palestine weeks before shooting forced the crew to adapt amidst devastating, ongoing events (7:09) The Moment Of Activation: Racism In Ohio Experiencing severe racism during the first Gulf War ignited a lifelong drive to challenge dangerous media stereotypes (9:34) Psychological Violence: Impact Of Humiliation The film explores how non-physical harassment and humiliation leave devastating, long-term relational scars (10:48) Broken Distribution: Industry Gatekeepers Navigating systemic fear and gatekeeping in Hollywood distribution remains a profound challenge for Palestinian cinema (11:37) Previous Films, Television And Craft Directing television hones the craft and expands the creative capacity needed for ambitious feature films (12:28) Truth Seekers: The Next Generation Hope lies with young people who refuse to accept the broken systems and hidden truths of previous generations Episode Website www.creativeprocess.info/pod Instagram:@creativeprocesspodcast