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We all know people get better through practice. The problem is that many of the conversations that matter most at work, giving feedback, handling objections, negotiating, coaching an employee, or talking with an important customer, are conversations people rarely get to practice before the stakes are real. In this episode of Lessons from Learning Leaders, I talk with Paul Burani, co-founder and Chief Revenue Officer of Atlas Primer, about how AI-powered role-play can give people a place to practice those conversations, receive feedback, try again, and build skill before they need it on the job. We also get into one of my longstanding frustrations with traditional role-play. Give someone a card that says “be difficult,” and suddenly they’re auditioning for an Oscar instead of behaving like a real customer or employee. AI gives us the opportunity to build more consistent characters, clearer parameters, and repeated practice without needing another participant to play the part. Paul and I also talk about why L&D has to move beyond measuring whether people attended training, completed it, passed a quiz, or enjoyed themselves. If training is supposed to improve performance, eventually we need to connect what people are practicing to the outcomes the organization actually cares about. In this episode, we talk about: * Why human skills may become more valuable as AI handles more routine work * How AI can provide realistic practice for difficult workplace conversations * Why traditional role-play often falls apart * The difference between knowing what to do and being able to do it * Why repetition matters when developing communication skills * Using real company information and common objections to make practice more realistic * Connecting training data to business outcomes instead of stopping at completion and satisfaction * How AI can help managers, salespeople, leaders, and others prepare for high-stakes conversations About Paul Burani Paul is the co-founder and CRO of Atlas Primer. His career has included marketing, advertising, entrepreneurship, leadership roles at Google, ed tech, and now AI-powered learning and performance. At Atlas Primer, he is focused on using AI to help organizations strengthen the human skills that still depend on judgment, communication, empathy, and practice. Connect with Paul and Atlas Primer Atlas Primer: atlasprimer.com Try Atlas Primer Roleplay: roleplay.atlasprimer.com Connect with Paul on LinkedIn: Paul Burani on LinkedIn If this conversation gives you something useful, share it with another trainer, facilitator, or learning leader who might benefit from it. And if you haven’t already, subscribe to Lessons from Learning Leaders for practical ideas on training, facilitation, learning transfer, AI, and helping people perform better at work. Get full access to Lessons from Learning Leaders at lessonsfromlearningleaders.substack.com/subscribe

Training is not successful because we covered the material. It is successful when people remember what they learned, make sense of it, and actually do something differently afterward. Katrina Kennedy returns to Lessons from Learning Leaders for a conversation about what trainers can do inside the learning experience to make that more likely. Katrina describes herself as an accidental trainer. She entered learning and development because a manager noticed she could communicate, then built a career spanning nearly three decades helping subject matter experts, facilitators, and trainers design and deliver better learning. A major focus of our conversation is reflection, but Katrina makes an important distinction between reflection, retrieval, and the traditional review that trainers often use. A review usually means the trainer repeats the important points. Retrieval makes the learner do the work of pulling the information back out of memory. Reflection then asks the learner to move forward with it. What does this mean for me? What am I going to do? How will I apply this when I return to work? That distinction led us into a conversation about one of my favorite Bob Pike activities, Give One, Get One. Participants retrieve the most important ideas from the session, get up and share them with other people, add useful ideas they hear, and then return to their seats. After talking with Katrina, I realized the activity needed one more step: ask participants to choose one of those ideas and identify exactly how they are going to use it. Now the activity combines retrieval, reflection, movement, social learning, and application. Katrina also shares some of the thinking behind her upcoming ATD Core 4 session, “Your Training Is Missing This and You Don’t Even Know It.” She has created a 16-card diagnostic that helps trainers examine whether important elements of effective learning are missing from their sessions. Some of the questions are deceptively simple: Do participants move? Do they have opportunities to reflect? Are they given breaks from cognitive load? Are they connecting with one another? The point is not to add activities simply to make training more entertaining. Each element serves a learning purpose. Movement can help reset attention. Reflection gives people time to process what they have learned. Retrieval strengthens memory. Connection allows participants to learn from the experience already present in the room. That last point led us somewhere I think trainers sometimes overlook. When participants interact with each other during training, we may be creating value that extends beyond the course itself. Someone discovers that a colleague has expertise they did not know about. A relationship develops. Months later, when a problem appears on the job, that participant now knows someone they can call. Training can strengthen the informal network inside an organization while it develops individual capability. We also talk about doing this virtually. Connection does not disappear simply because the training happens through a screen. Chat, breakout rooms, questions, introductions, and opportunities for participants to contribute can all make a webinar feel more like a learning experience and less like watching someone talk through slides. Underlying the entire conversation is a larger challenge for our profession. Too much training is still judged by whether people attended, completed the course, or enjoyed the experience. Those measures may be useful, but they do not tell us whether people changed their behavior or whether organizational performance improved. If learning and development wants to be viewed as an investment rather than an expense, trainers have to think beyond delivery. We need to create the conditions that help learning survive after participants leave the room. That means giving people time to retrieve, reflect, connect, practice, and decide what they are going to do next. Katrina’s Book: Learning That Lasts Katrina is also the author of Learning That Lasts: Reflection Activities for Trainers and Designers, a practical collection of more than 45 reflection activities designed to help trainers intentionally build reflection into learning before, during, and after the session. Katrina organizes the activities around eight outcomes, including stronger motivation, connection, memory, critical thinking, and improved performance. Get Learning That Lasts on Amazon Connect with Katrina Kennedy You can learn more about Katrina’s work, workshops, resources, and newsletter at her website. Visit KatrinaKennedy.com You can also connect with Katrina on LinkedIn. Connect with Katrina Kennedy on LinkedIn Bring This Conversation to Your Organization If this episode has you thinking about what happens between delivering information and actually changing performance, that is a conversation worth having with your training team. Better learning does not necessarily require more content. Sometimes it means creating more opportunities for people to retrieve what they know, reflect on what it means, learn from one another, and leave with a clear idea of what they will do differently. If you would like help creating learning experiences that produce more participation, stronger transfer, and better performance, I’d be glad to talk. Learn more at DuaneLester.com. Share this episode with a trainer, facilitator, or learning leader who wants to create learning that lasts, and subscribe to Lessons from Learning Leaders so you don’t miss the next conversation. Get full access to Lessons from Learning Leaders at lessonsfromlearningleaders.substack.com/subscribe

What happens when we give learners so much information that we leave them no room to think? Rusty Shields has spent about two decades in learning and development, but his path into the profession started in an unexpected place: music school. As a college student studying music, he answered an ad looking for people to teach leadership development programs in the evenings. That side job eventually became a career in facilitation, instructional design, leadership development, and helping other trainers become better at their craft. In this episode of Lessons from Learning Leaders, Rusty and I talk about one of the biggest problems still facing trainers today: we smother participants with content when we should be creating opportunities for them to participate. Rusty traces that realization back to the leadership programs he taught early in his career. There was plenty of useful information, but the expectation was largely to deliver all of it. He sees the same problem today when trainers are handed a huge slide deck, a short block of time, and an expectation that every piece of content must somehow be covered. That led Rusty to develop what he calls the SPARK Effect, a framework built around five ideas: * Shift your mindset * Practice curiosity * Activate engagement * Reinforce impact * Keep sparking The first shift is from believing that our job is to give participants everything we know to recognizing how much knowledge already exists in the room. Rusty describes his approach simply: all of us are better than any of us. When trainers create the right environment, participants can contribute their own experiences, solve problems together, learn from one another, and discover expertise among colleagues they may never have realized was there. That does more than improve the training. It can strengthen the relationships and informal networks people rely on after the session ends. We also talk about curiosity and why good facilitation depends on asking more questions instead of constantly providing answers. Rusty approaches facilitation almost like coaching. Rather than assuming he needs to supply every solution, he asks questions that help participants surface what they already know and build on the experience of others in the room. The conversation also gets into measurement and the challenge L&D faces when organizations judge training by attendance, completion rates, and participant reactions. Those numbers may tell us what happened during the event, but they do not tell us whether people changed what they did afterward or whether performance improved. Rusty argues that learning professionals have to become better at connecting training to those results if we want organizational leaders to see learning as an investment rather than simply another expense. We also discover that Rusty and I share some important influences. Bob Pike’s participant-centered philosophy has played a major role in Rusty’s approach to facilitation, and longtime learning leader Sardék Love has been a mentor and friend of his for nearly two decades. That leads us into a conversation about a principle I particularly like from Sardék: the best facilitators give up control for contribution. That may be the central idea behind this entire conversation. The trainer does not have to be the source of every answer. Sometimes our best work happens when we create the conditions for participants to think, talk, practice, question, contribute, and learn from each other. That is how we stop smothering the fire and start helping it spark. Connect with Rusty Shields Rusty is the owner and chief performance consultant at Develefy Consulting, where his work includes facilitation, leadership development, instructional design, and performance consulting. You can also connect with Rusty Shields, CPTD, on LinkedIn, where he regularly shares ideas about facilitation, learning and development, leadership, and participant engagement. Bring the Conversation to Your Organization If this conversation has you thinking about how much of your own training is devoted to delivering content rather than creating participation, that is a conversation worth having with your training team. Better facilitation can lead to stronger participation, better learning, and trainers who are more confident about giving learners room to contribute. If you would like help bringing those kinds of conversations into your organization through a keynote, workshop, trainer development program, or consulting engagement, I’d be glad to talk. Learn more at DuaneLester.com. Share this episode with a trainer, facilitator, or learning leader who could use the reminder to stop smothering learners with information, and subscribe to Lessons from Learning Leaders so you don’t miss the next conversation. Get full access to Lessons from Learning Leaders at lessonsfromlearningleaders.substack.com/subscribe

Gamification is often reduced to points, badges, leaderboards, or a PowerPoint version of Jeopardy. The activity may be entertaining, but entertainment alone does not prepare people to perform differently when they return to work. In this episode of Lessons from Learning Leaders, I talk with Moe Ash about what meaningful gamification looks like when it is grounded in instructional design, behavioral science, and real performance needs. Moe’s path into learning and development was anything but planned. Growing up in Cairo, Egypt, he struggled with public speaking and originally imagined a career with the United Nations. An unexpected experience at Model United Nations pushed him to speak in front of a room, and his later work with UNESCO gave him more opportunities to develop that ability. A chance invitation eventually brought him into training, although he quickly discovered that his real interest was behind the scenes. Moe wanted to research, create content, build systems, and design the experience rather than spend all his time delivering it. That interest eventually led him to found The Catalyst, an instructional design company specializing in gamified learning experiences, simulations, business board games, and train-the-trainer programs. Much of our conversation focuses on what gamification actually means. Moe describes it as using elements from games to encourage a learner toward a particular action, behavior, or outcome. The goal is not to make training look playful. The goal is to create a structured environment in which learners make decisions, experience consequences, solve problems, and practice something they will need to do later. We also discuss why so many learning games miss the mark. A trivia game may help participants recall information, but it rarely shows whether they can apply a process or make a sound decision. When a game rewards speed, memorization, or collecting points instead of the behavior the organization needs, the design may be working against the learning objective. Moe explains his PENTA framework for helping learning professionals move from an objective to a workable game concept. It guides designers through five areas: * Why: What should the experience help learners accomplish? * How: What mechanics, interactions, and structures will shape the game? * Story: What setting, characters, or conflict will give the experience meaning? * Experience: What will learners see, feel, and interact with? * Nudge: What will sustain participation and guide learners toward the intended behavior? We also talk about systems thinking, the role of behavioral science, and why the most important part of a learning game may be what happens after it ends. A good design gives participants a way to take the reasoning, decisions, and behaviors they practiced during the game and use them in the workplace. This conversation is a useful reminder that gamification should never begin with the question, “How can we make this more fun?” It should begin with what learners need to do differently and what kind of experience will help them get there. Connect with Moe Ash Visit The Catalyst to learn more about its gamified learning experiences, board game simulations, e-learning solutions, and public programs. Connect with Moe on LinkedIn, where he regularly shares ideas about gamification, instructional design, behavioral science, and learning experience design. Read The Eureka Experience, Moe and The Catalyst’s newsletter on learning design, gamification, and the realities of building learning that improves performance. Visit Moe’s personal page for additional information about his work and projects. Email: [email protected] Share this episode with a trainer, instructional designer, or facilitator who wants to move beyond trivia and build learning games that support real performance. Subscribe to Lessons from Learning Leaders so you do not miss the next conversation. Get full access to Lessons from Learning Leaders at lessonsfromlearningleaders.substack.com/subscribe

What separates a trainer who presents useful information from one whose work stays with people long after the session ends? Kristal Markle-Temons believes the difference is how the trainer makes people feel. In this episode of Lessons from Learning Leaders, Kristal shares the path that led her from overseeing learning for 16,000 government employees to building a career around servant leadership, culture, and leadership development. Early in that work, she noticed that many people had been promoted because they were excellent accountants, attorneys, social workers, or technical experts, but they had never been prepared to lead other people. That realization led her to the work of Jim Hunter, author of The Servant. Kristal tells the remarkable story of writing and calling him repeatedly until he finally responded, then developing a mentoring relationship that lasted close to a decade. Together, they helped shape a servant leadership program designed to influence more than workplace performance. Kristal wanted leaders to become better managers, parents, partners, friends, and members of their communities. Her career took an unexpected turn after she was struck from behind by a truck traveling 55 miles per hour. The resulting traumatic brain injury affected her ability to read, write, and speak, and made it difficult to work within the expectations of a traditional job. As a single mother, she had to rebuild her life and relearn much of her profession. That process eventually led her to graduate school, entrepreneurship, and the creation of BGL: Bold Growth & Leadership. Much of our conversation focuses on Kristal’s idea that trainers should become firestarters rather than simply facilitators. A firestarter creates an experience that moves people emotionally and gives them a reason to remember and use what they learned. That requires more than polished slides, useful information, or the latest training technology. Kristal identifies three emotional truths that help transform learning: Vulnerability. Trust. Love. We discuss why trainers must be willing to model vulnerability before expecting it from participants, how storytelling can create the psychological safety needed for honest conversations, and why love belongs in conversations about leadership and learning. Kristal is not talking about liking everyone in the room. She describes love as an action expressed through service, respect, humility, and a genuine commitment to another person’s growth. We also explore the difference between giving a speech and conducting training. A speech may inspire people, but training should prepare them to do something differently afterward. Kristal begins her design process by asking what participants should be able to do tomorrow and what they need to feel before they will be willing to do it. This conversation is a reminder that people may forget much of what appeared on our slides, but they often remember the trainer who made it safe to think differently, tell the truth, and see themselves in a new way. Connect with Kristal Markle-Temons Visit BGL: Bold Growth & Leadership to learn about Kristal’s leadership development, culture, facilitation, and consulting work. Visit Bossy Girl Leadership for Kristal’s work helping women embrace their power and practice servant leadership. Connect with Kristal on LinkedIn. Learn more about Beautifully Bossy: A Guide to Servant Leadership. Email shared during the episode: [email protected] Public Bossy Girl Leadership email: [email protected] Share this episode with a trainer, facilitator, or leader who believes learning should do more than deliver information, and subscribe to Lessons from Learning Leaders so you do not miss the next conversation. Get full access to Lessons from Learning Leaders at lessonsfromlearningleaders.substack.com/subscribe

Most trainers spend a great deal of time thinking about engagement. We add polls, discussions, activities, and opportunities for participation because we do not want learners sitting quietly while we talk at them. Stephanie Hubka believes we may need to go further. In this episode of Lessons from Learning Leaders, Stephanie joins me to explore the difference between getting people involved in a training session and helping them form genuine human connections. Engagement may keep people busy for an hour. Connection can change the way they listen, contribute, take risks, and apply what they learn afterward. Stephanie shares the unexpected path that brought her into talent development. She originally moved to Washington, DC, with a political science degree and ambitions that had nothing to do with training. A position as an education coordinator changed that almost immediately. She discovered a profession centered on people, growth, and the kind of work she could not imagine leaving. We also talk about her experience earning the Certified Professional in Talent Development credential. Stephanie explains why the value went far beyond passing an exam or adding letters after her name. Preparing for the credential expanded her knowledge of the profession, while the community surrounding it led to relationships, volunteer opportunities, and professional connections that continued shaping her career years later. Much of our conversation focuses on Stephanie’s Connect 4 approach to building community through training. The framework asks learning professionals to think about connection before the learning experience, during the session, after participants return to work, and across the larger collection of learning experiences an organization provides. Stephanie explains why storytelling is one of her favorite ways to begin. Asking participants to share a story gives them a reason to talk with someone they do not know, but it does not force them into a level of vulnerability they did not choose. They decide what to share, how personal to become, and how they want to participate. That sense of control helps create psychological safety while giving people a chance to become more than strangers sitting at the same table. We also discuss why facilitators sometimes need to give up control in order to gain greater contribution from the room, how connection prepares participants for deeper conversations later in the session, and why trainers should examine whether the engagement techniques they use are producing anything more meaningful than activity. As AI makes content easier to produce, Stephanie makes a strong case that the human side of learning deserves more attention. Trainers still have an opportunity to create spaces where people feel seen, heard, and connected to one another. Those experiences can influence what learners remember, what they are willing to try, and whether the training leads to real change. Connect with Stephanie Hubka Protos Learning helps organizations design and deliver practical, human-centered learning experiences focused on application, behavior change, and connection. StephanieHubka.com Connect with Stephanie on LinkedIn Contact Protos Learning for workshops, facilitation, speaking, custom learning design, and consulting inquiries. Professional email listed in Stephanie’s public conference materials: [email protected] Share this episode with a trainer, facilitator, or learning leader who is thinking about how to create more meaningful learning experiences, and subscribe to Lessons from Learning Leaders so you do not miss the next conversation. Bring Better Conversations Into Your Organization Strong organizations are built on leaders who communicate well, ask thoughtful questions, facilitate productive discussions, and develop the people around them. If you’d like to bring these conversations into your organization through a keynote, workshop, leadership program, or train-the-trainer engagement, I’d welcome the opportunity. Learn more at DuaneLester.com. Get full access to Lessons from Learning Leaders at lessonsfromlearningleaders.substack.com/subscribe

In this episode of Lessons from Learning Leaders, I talk with Jazmin Webster about the path from corporate learning and development to entrepreneurship, the role professional communities can play in building confidence, and why meaningful growth often requires us to examine how we see ourselves and the people around us. Jazmin also walks us through the Box Experience, an immersive learning activity that makes our “thinking boxes” visible. Participants explore how their experiences, emotions, assumptions, and goals shape the way they communicate, make decisions, work with others, and respond under pressure. We discuss the difference between reacting and responding, how facilitators create enough psychological safety for honest reflection, and why leaders sometimes need to model vulnerability before asking anyone else to take that risk. The conversation also challenges the idea that serious professionals will reject creativity or play. Jazmin explains why experiential learning can work with everyone from volunteer leaders to executive teams, especially when the activity is clearly connected to a real problem the organization needs to solve. Share this episode with a trainer, facilitator, or leader who would enjoy the conversation, and subscribe to Lessons from Learning Leaders so you do not miss the next one. Get full access to Lessons from Learning Leaders at lessonsfromlearningleaders.substack.com/subscribe

What if the most important skill a trainer develops isn’t presenting, facilitating, or even designing activities? What if it’s listening? In this episode of Lessons from Learning Leaders, I sit down with Elizabeth Chatham to talk about how listening changes everything, from the way we facilitate a classroom to the way we advocate, lead, and build relationships. Elizabeth shares her journey from working on Capitol Hill at just sixteen years old to training with Americans for Prosperity, and now serving as Associate Director of Philanthropy for Human Life International. Along the way, she explains why the best trainers spend less time proving what they know and more time discovering what their learners already know. We also explore why training is about improving performance, not delivering content. Elizabeth shares practical ways she adapts her sessions on the fly by listening for cues from participants, using their stories to shape discussions, and helping experienced learners become valuable resources for everyone else in the room. You’ll also hear how the communication skills she developed as a trainer now help her build trust with donors, advocate for adoptive families, and coach others through difficult conversations. Whether you’re a new trainer trying to find your footing or an experienced facilitator looking to sharpen your craft, this conversation is a reminder that some of the most important moments in training happen when we stop talking and start listening. If you enjoy this episode, please share it with a friend or colleague who cares about helping people learn, and subscribe to Lessons from Learning Leaders so you never miss an episode. Get full access to Lessons from Learning Leaders at lessonsfromlearningleaders.substack.com/subscribe

What really changes the day you become a leader? According to leadership expert, author, and researcher Vince Molinaro, it’s far more than a new title or a bigger paycheck. Leadership is a commitment, one that many people stumble into without ever understanding what they’ve actually signed up for. In this episode of Lessons from Learning Leaders, Vince shares the ideas behind his Leadership Contract framework and explains why so many organizations promote great individual contributors without preparing them for the completely different job of leading people. We explore the transition from technical expert to leader, the importance of deliberate onboarding at every leadership level, and why clear expectations are the foundation of a strong leadership culture. Our conversation also looks at the role Learning & Development can play in shaping organizational culture. Vince argues that trainers and instructional designers have an opportunity to create far more strategic value than simply delivering courses. By understanding the business, translating strategy into meaningful leadership behaviors, and helping leaders build healthy team cultures, L&D can become an essential partner in organizational success rather than just a support function. Along the way, we discuss shared accountability, why culture is built through daily leadership behaviors, the difference between builders and maintainers, and why communicating strategy isn’t enough. Leaders have to translate it into language people can understand and act on. Vince is also the author of several outstanding books on leadership, including The Leadership Contract, Accountable Leaders, Community of Leaders, and his newest book, Leading Strategic Shifts. If you’d like to learn more about his work, visit his author website here: Dr. Vince Molinaro’s author page. You can also replace the book link below with your Amazon affiliate link if you’d like to recommend one of his books to readers. Whether you’re a trainer developing future leaders, an HR professional shaping leadership programs, or a manager trying to lead more intentionally, this conversation is full of practical ideas you can put to work immediately. If you enjoy this episode, please share it with a friend or colleague and subscribe to Lessons from Learning Leaders so you never miss an episode. Get full access to Lessons from Learning Leaders at lessonsfromlearningleaders.substack.com/subscribe

What if trust isn’t a soft skill at all? In this episode of Lessons from Learning Leaders, I sit down with executive coach, Army veteran, Bronze Star recipient, and leadership expert Jevon Wooden to explore why trust has become one of the most important drivers of engagement, innovation, and performance in today’s organizations. Jevon argues that many leaders are still operating from an outdated playbook. They talk about trust as a value, but fail to build it through daily actions. Real trust, he says, isn’t something you declare. It’s something you demonstrate in the small moments that happen every day. We discuss why psychological safety begins with trust, how leaders can create environments where people feel comfortable taking risks, and why organizations often struggle when they focus on compliance instead of commitment. Jevon shares practical insights on vulnerability, delegation, recognition, and the importance of listening before speaking. We also explore the connection between trust and innovation. From empowering employees to contribute ideas outside their job descriptions to creating guardrails that allow people to fail safely, Jevon explains why the organizations that thrive are often the ones willing to learn from everyone, regardless of title or position. Along the way, we talk about after-action reviews, Stephen Covey’s views on trust, why leaders should focus on empowering rather than micromanaging, and how meaningful work and recognition remain powerful motivators for adult learners and employees alike. Whether you’re a trainer, facilitator, manager, executive, or anyone responsible for helping people grow and perform, this conversation offers practical ideas you can apply immediately. If you enjoy this episode, please share it with a friend or colleague and subscribe to Lessons from Learning Leaders so you never miss an episode. Get full access to Lessons from Learning Leaders at lessonsfromlearningleaders.substack.com/subscribe

Trainers are living through another major shift. AI is moving fast. Companies are looking for faster ways to build courses, reduce costs, and implement new tools. And once again, training departments may be one of the first places leaders look when they want to save money. So what should trainers do? In this episode of Lessons from Learning Leaders, I talk with Clifton Clarke III, Chief Learning Strategist for ATD Detroit and founder of Detroit Learning Solutions, about his ATD session Pivot or Perish and what trainers need to do in a changing workplace. Clifton’s path into training started the way many L&D careers do: almost by accident. Someone saw something in him, gave him a chance, and he discovered the fulfillment that comes from helping people get better at their work. That sense of service runs through the entire conversation. As Clifton puts it, training is about helping people improve their jobs, feed their families, and increase their livelihood. We talk about: * How Clifton found his way into corporate training * Why trainers need to adapt instead of panic * What AI means for L&D professionals * Why trainers must advocate for frontline employees * How to partner with leadership during change * Why staying calm is part of the trainer’s job * What trainers need to learn before they can lead others through change Clifton offers three practical moves for trainers right now: stay calm, ask better questions, and learn the tools inside and out. His point is not that AI should be ignored or feared. His point is that trainers have to understand it well enough to guide the organization, protect employees from bad implementation, and help leaders make smarter decisions. This conversation is a reminder that training is not about protecting the way we have always done things. It is about helping people move forward without losing sight of the humans doing the work. If you are a trainer, facilitator, instructional designer, or L&D leader wondering where you fit in the AI shift, this episode is worth your time. If this conversation would help another trainer, facilitator, instructional designer, or L&D leader, share it with them. And if you haven’t already, subscribe to Lessons from Learning Leaders so you don’t miss future conversations with people doing the work of learning and development. Get full access to Lessons from Learning Leaders at lessonsfromlearningleaders.substack.com/subscribe

In this episode of Lessons from Learning Leaders, I talk with Betty Dannewitz, better known across the L&D world as If You Ask Betty, about burnout, psychological safety, and why learning professionals often neglect their own development while helping everyone else grow. Betty is a solution architect at Blanchard, a speaker, podcast host, confidence coach, and long-time learning professional who works at the intersection of L&D, leadership, and emerging technology. But this conversation centers on something much closer to home for many trainers: the pressure to keep pushing, keep serving, keep answering every urgent request, and somehow not burn out in the process. We talk about her ATD session, Burnout to Balance, where she led a room of L&D professionals through a community conversation on burnout, wellness, and the real pressures facing people in our field. Betty shares how she created safety in a room of 80 people, gave up control for contribution, and helped participants realize they were not carrying these struggles alone. The conversation gets practical fast. We discuss why meaningful work can still drain you, how L&D professionals confuse urgency with importance, why breaks only work if you actually take them, and what one-person training departments can do when everything feels like it is falling on them. Betty also shares why boundaries matter, even if you do not love the word, and how building a trusted “board of directors” can keep you grounded when the work gets heavy. If you work in training, facilitation, instructional design, or leadership development and feel like you are always helping everyone else grow while quietly running yourself into the ground, this episode is worth your time. Betty does not offer fluffy self-care slogans. She tells the truth. Burnout is real, our work matters, and those two facts can exist at the same time. Listen in, then ask yourself the question Betty kept bringing us back to: Are you actually doing the thing you keep telling yourself you need to do? If this helped, subscribe to Lessons from Learning Leaders for practical tools, activities, and ideas for better training. Get full access to Lessons from Learning Leaders at lessonsfromlearningleaders.substack.com/subscribe

Most trainers think about consulting long before they make the leap. Then reality hits. What do I offer?Who would hire me?How do I build a brand without sounding fake?How do I find clients without becoming the person everyone avoids at conferences? In this episode of Lessons from Learning Leaders, I talk with Amy Vaughan, CPTD, about her move from corporate training into independent consulting and coaching. Amy’s story includes layoffs, reinvention, strategic networking, and the hard work of building a practice around work that actually matters to her, especially supporting neurodivergent adult learners. We talk about: * How she found her niche * Why networking is really relationship-building * How to make peace with imposter syndrome * Why volunteering and community involvement can open real doors * How to say no to work that does not fit your mission * What it takes to build a sustainable consulting practice without losing your integrity This is a practical conversation for trainers, facilitators, and L&D professionals who have wondered whether consulting might be their next move. Amy does not sell a fantasy. She tells the truth. The leap is hard. It requires grit, clarity, relationships, and a willingness to keep learning. But if you are tired of feeling stuck and wondering what it might look like to build something of your own, this episode is worth your time. Get full access to Lessons from Learning Leaders at lessonsfromlearningleaders.substack.com/subscribe

In this episode of Lessons from Learning Leaders, we chat with Katrina Kennedy—consultant, facilitator, and author of the new book, Learning That Lasts: Reflection Activities for Trainers and Designers. Katrina shares her accidental start in L&D, which began when her manager at the District Attorney’s office needed someone to train new staff for a reorganization: “Katrina, you can talk,” she was told. Over the past 28 years on her own, she discovered her passion for helping new trainers and subject matter experts (SMEs) design and facilitate powerful learning experiences. The Monumental Shift: It’s Not About You Katrina reflects on her journey from unknowingly “telling” to intentionally facilitating. Like many trainers, she initially had the mindset of an empty vessel ready to be filled. The monumental shift came during a conference session where she witnessed participants deeply interacting. She realized, “This is about them”. She reinforces that the number one rule of training is “It’s not about you”. This realization is freeing for SMEs, reducing their nervousness because they know the focus isn’t entirely on their performance. Instead, the goal is to impress the participants with their own discoveries. The Critical Failure Point: Learning Transfer Katrina joins the host in preaching the absolute importance of learning transfer. The host notes that training often fails after the classroom because the trainer considers their job done, and the manager assumes the training worked. If the training isn’t transferred to the field, performance isn’t improved. Katrina emphasizes that transfer success begins before the training, by ensuring the learning is aligned with organizational needs and securing buy-in from managers and participants. Common Transfer Failures: * Running Out of Time: Trainers pack too much content and neglect the vital time needed for reflection. * No Support: Pushing people out the door without follow-up, supportive nudges, or an accountability partner. The Phlebotomist Test: Practice Over Content To shake the mental model that training is only about the transfer of information, Katrina uses a memorable story: If you are going to have blood drawn, do you want the phlebotomist to have a lot of content knowledge, or do you want them to have practiced and reflected on what they’re doing? The clear answer (practice!) reinforces the need to give people time to practice and receive feedback. Katrina’s book, Learning That Lasts, is a practical reference guide with research-backed reflection activities that help ensure learning transfers to the workplace. Key Takeaways * Rule #1: It’s not about you: The most profound shift for a trainer is realizing the job is to facilitate their learning, not show off your knowledge. * Transfer is a Trainer’s Responsibility: If you slack on the transfer strategy, the entire training fails because you haven’t improved performance. * Reflection is Not an Afterthought: Time must be intentionally designed into the session for practice and reflection. * Practice is Paramount: Use the phlebotomist test to prove that practice and reflection are superior to content volume. Katrina Kennedy’s Book and Contact: * Book: Learning That Lasts: Reflection Activities for Trainers and Designers * Contact: Connect on LinkedIn or visit katrinakennedy.com. Get full access to Lessons from Learning Leaders at lessonsfromlearningleaders.substack.com/subscribe

A Note from the Host: Please accept my sincere apology for the audio quality on my end of this recording. Despite buying new equipment to improve the audio quality, I made a rookie mistake. I didn’t look at my own audio levels before recording and didn’t notice my four-year-old maxed out the volume on my mixer. Despite my best efforts to fix it in post-production, my audio is unfortunately quite distorted. Justin Hunsaker’s audio is perfect, and that is where the real value lies. I ask you to forgive my technical error and embrace the fantastic communication insights Justin shares. The lesson he delivers on clarity and audience focus is one I clearly need to re-learn! The Expert Trap: How Your Knowledge Can Sabotage Your Training How do you go from being a software engineer to an executive communication coach? For Justin Hunsaker, it was realizing that the through-line of all success is communication. Justin, the author of Presentation Pitfalls, joins us to discuss his upcoming presentation at the Training Conference and Expo: “The expert trap: how knowing too much can sabotage your training and presentations”. The “expert trap” is defined as when presenters focus on their expertise rather than what their audience needs to learn, resulting in a message that never completely gets conveyed. Justin emphasizes that in communication, your audience comes first. Spock vs. Kirk: The Emotional vs. Logical Voice Justin suggests everyone has two voices in their head: the Mr. Spock (logical, sequential, data-oriented) and the Captain Kirk (emotional, storytelling). The expert trap is relying solely on Mr. Spock. To avoid this, Justin recommends: * Start with a story to get emotional engagement (Captain Kirk). * Introduce facts and logic (Mr. Spock) to provide credibility and confidence that you’ve done the expertise work. * End with the story. This approach works because people buy with emotion and justify with logic. Storytelling is much more primal to the human experience than a sequence of facts, making information stickier. The Signal to Noise Ratio: Cutting the Fat Experts often feel everything they know is important and needs to be included, but this creates noise that distracts the audience from the three most important facts they should remember. Justin and his partner’s four-part presentation framework includes Reduce Noise. If an expert can’t explain when a piece of information will be valuable to the learner, it becomes noise that should be put in a handout or an appendix. He advises using the military’s BLUF (Bottom Line Up Front) framework to flip a history-lesson approach upside down and lead with the most important answer. Tools for the Modern Communicator Justin is excited about how AI (Large Language Models) can help experts communicate better. He suggests asking a large language model to generate 10 analogies for a complex topic, allowing the expert to quickly select the most resonant one for their audience. The Platinum Rule of Presentations Justin teaches that presentation design is a function of your audience, your purpose, and your setting—the presenter is not included. This reinforces the number one rule of training: It’s not about you. The 3F Framework for Instant Presence As a final tip, Justin shares the 3F Framework for leveling up your communication in just three minutes before any important conversation: * Facts: Write down the three facts you want your audience to remember. * Feelings: Write down the feelings you and your audience have going into the conversation. * Follow-ups: Write down what you promise to do after the conversation, and what you want your audience to promise to do. Key Takeaways * Audience First: The expert trap is focusing on what you know instead of what the audience needs to learn. The design of your training should focus on the audience, purpose, and setting—not the presenter. * Embrace Emotion: People make decisions based on emotion and justify them with logic. Start with a story (emotion/Captain Kirk) before providing data (logic/Mr. Spock). * Reduce Noise: Cut extraneous information that is only a “history lesson” of your journey. Use the BLUF (Bottom Line Up Front) approach to prioritize the most important answer. * The 3F Level Up: Spend three minutes before any meeting writing down the three desired Facts, the related Feelings, and the planned Follow-ups to increase your leadership presence. Justin Hunsaker’s Book and Contact: * Book: Presentation Pitfalls * Contact: Find Justin on LinkedIn (he’s the one with the book in the background!). Get full access to Lessons from Learning Leaders at lessonsfromlearningleaders.substack.com/subscribe