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Deborah Netolicky talks with Professor David Gurr about the difference between successful and merely effective schools, the complex and context-responsive work of school leadership, and how leaders build the cultures, capacity and conditions that sustain achievement and wellbeing. They discuss intelligent compassion, collective leadership, and what more than two decades of international research has revealed about successful school principals. David is Professor of Educational Leadership at the University of Melbourne. Across a career spanning more than four decades, he has worked as a secondary teacher, school counsellor, middle leader and academic. He is a founding member and leader of the International Successful School Principalship Project, and his research focuses particularly on successful school leadership and middle leadership. David is co-editor, with Christopher Day, of 'How Successful Schools Are More than Effective: Principals Who Build and Sustain Teacher and Student Wellbeing and Achievement'. A former Vice-President of the Australian Council for Educational Leaders, he received the ACEL Gold Medal in 2014. Want to know more? - https://findanexpert.unimelb.edu.au/profile/763-david-gurr - https://www.ucl.ac.uk/ioe/research-projects/2001/jan/international-successful-school-principalship-project-isspp - Deb: @theeeduflaneuse on Instagram - The Edu Salon: @theedusalon on Instagram

Deborah Netolicky talks with Dr Selena Fisk about how, why, and when to use data in schools, trends versus insights, the importance of curiosity and collaboration, and the role of generative ai in data analysis. Selena is a data storyteller who helps educators turn numbers into meaningful narratives that drive positive change. With 16 years of teaching experience in Australia and the UK, she works with educators and school leaders to build data-informed cultures. She is the author of four books and the host of the Make Data Talk podcast. Want to know more? - selenafisk.com - Make Data Talk podcast: https://open.spotify.com/show/3Vyo8Po9KQrNjkoAwJwxDn - Selena: @selenafisk on Instagram - Deb: @theeeduflaneuse on Instagram - The Edu Salon: @theedusalon on Instagram

Deborah Netolicky talks with Dr Shanti Clements about what it means to cultivate leadership as a shared, reflective practice across a school. From students contributing to strategic planning, conducting learning walks and leading Wellbeing Wednesdays, to the 7 Habits, 'Leader in Me', and community consultation, Shanti shares structures that turn voice and agency into genuine shared stewardship. They also discuss how the Leadership Maturity Framework and reflective supervision can support more self-aware, self-regulating and intentional leadership. This episode includes some school background noise at times. Shanti is currently Principal at Seven Hills West Public School, Associate Professor of Education at Excelsia University and Leadership Wellness Coach. Across her career, she has additionally served as Principal of Beauty Point Public School, as well as in various roles with the NSW Department of Education, and as lecturer at University of Sydney and Liverpool Hope University. Shanti has designed and facilitated leadership programs, talent-development pathways and accreditation programs for aspiring leaders, principals and senior executives across New South Wales, the United Arab Emirates, Egypt and Saudi Arabia. Her contributions to education have been recognised through a National Excellence in Teaching Award and an Australian Schools Plus and Commonwealth Bank Teaching Award. Want to know more? - https://sevenhillw-p.schools.nsw.gov.au/about-us/our-principal-and-staff - Shanti: @shanticlements on Instagram - Deb: @theeeduflaneuse on Instagram - The Edu Salon: @theedusalon on Instagram

Deborah Netolicky talks with Associate Professor Haili Hughes about what it takes to build and sustain a flourishing teaching profession. Together they explore teaching, teacher development, mentoring, instructional coaching, teacher wellbeing and retention. Haili is Associate Professor of Educational Innovation and Impact at La Trobe University in Melbourne. Before moving to Australia, she spent more than two decades in schools and education leadership in England, including as a school leader and the UK's only professor working within a multi-academy trust. She has held senior roles in education organisations focused on teacher development and professional learning at scale, has advised the UK Department for Education on initial teacher training and mentoring, serves as an elected Councillor of the Chartered College of Teaching, and is a Commissioner with the Teaching Commission. She is the author of ten books on mentoring, teacher development, wellbeing and professional practice, including Mentoring in Schools, Humans in the Classroom, How to Survive in Teaching and The Teacher's Guide to Research. Content note: This conversation includes discussion of teacher burnout, mental health and suicidal ideation. Want to know more? - https://hailihughes.substack.com/ - Haili:@HughesHaili on Twitter and @no_wire_hangers1 on Instagram - Deb: @theeeduflaneuse on Instagram - The Edu Salon: @theedusalon on Instagram

Deborah Netolicky talks with José Bowen about the inevitability of AI in education and in life. They discuss where AI is already transforming schools, universities, work and everyday life; where it can enhance learning and productivity; where caution is needed; when we should outsource thinking to machines and when we should resist doing so; and why the serendipity and randomness of human encounters remain central to learning and creativity. José has been leading innovation and change for over 45 years at Stanford, Georgetown and the University of Southampton (UK), as a dean at Miami University and SMU and as President of Goucher College. He worked as a musician with Stan Getz, Dave Brubeck, and many others and his symphony was nominated for the Pulitzer Prize in Music (1985). His books include ‘ Teaching Naked’, ‘Teaching Change: How to Develop Independent Thinkers using Relationships, Resilience and Reflection’, and ‘Teaching with AI: A Practical Guide to a New Era of Human Learning’ with C. Edward Watson. Want to know more? - weteachwithai.com/ - josebowen.com/ - Deb: @theeeduflaneuse on Instagram - The Edu Salon: @theedusalon on Instagram

Deborah Netolicky talks with Dr Catherine Smith about care and inclusion in an age of AI. Catherine is a Senior Lecturer in the Faculty of Education at the University of Melbourne. Her work sits at the intersection of wellbeing, inclusion, digital technologies and social justice in education, with a focus on how education can remain relational, ethical and deeply human in systems shaped by accountability, automation and technological change. Grounded in the ethics of care, Catherine’s research examines how schools, universities and education systems recognise or fail to recognise the relational work of teaching, learning and support. Her recent work focuses on inclusive education, disability, Individual Education Plans, student voice, AI in education and digital wellbeing. Catherine has co-authored national reports with Children and Young People with Disability Australia and teaches generative AI, wellbeing and education at Masters level. She also develops school-level AI resources, including gamified learning about innovation, trust and sustainability. Her work asks how care, accessibility and recognition can become central to learning. Want to know more? - https://findanexpert.unimelb.edu.au/profile/664307-catherine-smith - https://cyda.org.au/educationreport/ - https://pursuit.unimelb.edu.au/articles/young-people-are-using-ai-coaches%2C-but-are-they-using-the-right-ones - https://pursuit.unimelb.edu.au/articles/supporting-kids-social-lives%2C-without-social-media - Deb: @theeeduflaneuse on Instagram - The Edu Salon: @theedusalon on Instagram

Deborah Netolicky talks with Janine Stratford about being a relational, strategic leader in schools. Janine is a Leadership Coach, Career Strategist, Founder of her company Coaching Focus and facilitator passionate about helping educators lead with clarity, confidence, and purpose. After 28 years in schools, including as a Deputy Principal, Janine started Coaching Focus in 2015 to empower school leaders to step up, stand out, and make a lasting difference. She saw too many great educators doubting their leadership potential and wanted to change that. Janine partners with educators and leadership teams across Australia and New Zealand, providing leadership development, coaching, and coach training that inspire growth and impact. A Professional Certified Coach (PCC) and Certified Professional Behavioural Analyst, she helps leaders understand themselves and their influence so they can lead with authenticity and strategic intent. She is author of Leading for Tomorrow, Today: School Leadership with Purpose, Alignment and Lasting Impact. Want to know more? - https://coachingfocus.com.au/ - https://ambapress.com.au/collections/coming-soon/products/leading-for-tomorrow-today - Deb: @theeeduflaneuse on Instagram - The Edu Salon: @theedusalon on Instagram

Deborah Netolicky talks with Dr Jeremy Hannay about counter-cultural leadership, navigating the pace of change, and how to pursue happiness and high performance at the same time. Jeremy is Executive Principal of Three Bridges Primary School and Wolf Fields Primary School in Southall, London. Originally from Canada, he has spent over a decade leading in one of the world’s most high-stakes education systems while advocating for a more human, growth-centred approach to school improvement. A former Pearson National Headteacher of the Year, he speaks and writes internationally about leadership, learning and how to grow strong schools without being defined by performance-driven systems. Want to know more? - Deb: @theeeduflaneuse on Instagram - The Edu Salon: @theedusalon on Instagram

Deborah Netolicky talks with Associate Professor Paul Kidson about leadership in schools that is hopeful, sustainable and personalised. Paul leads Educational Leadership postgraduate courses at the Australian Catholic University. He is one of the researchers on Australia’s largest and longest running principal wellbeing research project, the Australian Principal Occupational Health, Safety, and Wellbeing Survey, as well as a frequent media commentator on educational matters. He has co-designed several aspiring principals and middle leadership programs in both the government and non-government sectors. Prior to his academic career, he was a school principal for over 11 years. In addition to his academic qualifications and experience, he is a Graduate of the Australian Institute of Company Directors, a Fellow of the Institute for Managers and Leaders, and is currently President of the NSW Branch, and National Board member, of the Australian Council for Educational Leaders. Want to know more? - Deb: @theeeduflaneuse on Instagram - The Edu Salon: @theedusalon on Instagram

Deborah Netolicky talks with Dr Amanda Bell AM about leadership and governance in schools. Amanda is a highly experienced leader, an accomplished non-executive director and strategic facilitator whose advisory work concentrates on strategic futures, leadership development and masterclasses for boards, CEOs and senior managers. She holds several board directorships and is past Principal of The Women’s College within the University of Sydney. Amanda was appointed a Fellow of the Australian Institute of Company Directors (FAICD), the Australian College of Educators (FACE) and the Australian Institute of Management (FAIM). She was recognised in The Queen’s Birthday 2017 Honours List as a Member of the Order of Australia (AM) for significant service to education, particularly to young women as a leader and academic, and to the visual arts. Want to know more? - https://futureleadership.com.au/team/amanda-bell/ - Deb: @theeeduflaneuse on Instagram - The Edu Salon: @theedusalon on Instagram

Deborah Netolicky talks with Professor Erica McWilliam AM about the joy in the rigour of learning, reclaiming the magic of teaching, and the importance of knowing. Erica is an internationally recognised scholar of pedagogy and creativity, whose career spans more than forty years. Moving from classroom teaching to senior academic roles in Australia and Singapore, Erica is known for her work on innovation, futures of work, and ‘low threat, high challenge’ approaches to learning. She has led major research programs, including the Creative Workforce 2.0 initiative, and is the author of The Creative Workforce. Her contributions to education were recognised with the award of a Member of the Order of Australia. Want to know more? - https://www.qut.edu.au/about/our-people/academic-profiles/e.mcwilliam Join the conversation on social media. - Deb: @theeeduflaneuse on Instagram - The Edu Salon: @theedusalon on Instagram

Deborah Netolicky talks with Professor Gert Biesta about teaching, knowledge and the purpose of education. Gert is Professor of Public Education at the Centre for Public Education and Pedagogy, Maynooth University. His work on the theory and philosophy of education is translated into over 20 languages, covering key interests such as curriculum, teaching, teacher education, democracy, and citizenship education. Gert’s books include 'Beyond Learning', 'The Beautiful Risk of Education', 'The Rediscovery of Teaching', and 'World-Centred Education'. Want to know more? - https://www.gertbiesta.com/ Join the conversation on social media. - Deb: @theeeduflaneuse on Instagram - The Edu Salon: @theedusalon on Instagram

Deborah Netolicky talks with Dr Adrian Camm about principalship, self-transformation, innovation in schools and the possibilities of AI for education. Adrian is the Principal of Westbourne Grammar School in Melbourne, where he leads with a future-focused philosophy grounded in purpose, human connection, and deep learning. A Graduate of the Australian Institute of Company Directors and with a PhD from Deakin University, Adrian is passionate about transforming education so that schools remain relevant and empowering in an era of rapid change. He is recognised for his work in curriculum innovation and use of emerging technologies, and recently won the Principal of the Year Award in the Australian Education Awards. He is the co-host of the Principal’s Perspective podcast. Want to know more? - https://www.adriancamm.com Join the conversation on social media. - Deb: @theeeduflaneuse on Instagram - The Edu Salon: @theedusalon on Instagram

Deborah Netolicky talks with Kristen Douglas about mental health challenges in schools and society, and how educators can support themselves and the children and families in their communities. Kristen has a Bachelor and Master of Education and over 30 years’ experience in the education, health, mental health, suicide, in not for profit and government sectors. Kristen has significantly contributed to the synergy between education and mental health in Australia. From guiding government policy to leading transformational change and national reform. Kristen has led many national and state initiatives in the critical areas of whole school approach, youth mental health, principal leader mental health and wellbeing. She has authored several national resources and frameworks and specialises in the impact of suicide, complex events, trauma, and natural disasters on schools and communities and how they respond and recover. Want to know more? - https://headspace.org.au/ - https://beyou.edu.au/ Join the conversation on social media. - Kristen: @kd_wellbeing on Instagram - Deb: @theeeduflaneuse on Instagram - The Edu Salon: @theedusalon on Instagram

In this special 50th episode of The Edu Salon podcast, Deborah Netolicky hosts a collaboration between The Edu Salon and EdLeaders Australia podcasts. Mathew Irving co-host of EdLeaders, joins Deb in a broad ranging and candid conversation about school principalship, leadership, transitions, finding professional nourishment and sustaining wellbeing. Want to know more? - EdLeaders Australia podcast https://www.edleaders.com.au/podcast Join the conversation: - Deb: @theeeduflaneuse on Instagram - The Edu Salon: @theedusalon on Instagram