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Send us Fan Mail Assessment and evaluation are about more than counting students, tracking enrollment, or measuring financial performance. Done well, they help theological schools understand whether their programs are making a meaningful difference. In this episode of the Good Governance Podcast, Kay Edwards, CEO of Outsight Network, and Mary Reinders, senior research strategist, discuss how schools can use evaluation to strengthen programs, advance their missions, and build a culture of learning. Drawing on their work with the In Trust Center and the Pathways for Tomorrow Initiative, they explain why evaluation should begin when a program is designed, involve the people it serves, and measure outcomes rather than simply activities. They also explore how meaningful evaluation can inform board decisions, strengthen relationships with funders, and help institutions communicate their impact.  You can find the Outsight Network here.

Send us Fan Mail What makes an advisory body effective? Some of the conventional wisdom about advisory bodies has changed, thanks to new research.  In this episode of the Good Governance podcast, In Trust Center President Amy Kardash and the Rev. David Rowe, Ph.D., the Governance Initiative project director and president of  Windermere Consulting, explore new findings from the Center’s research into governance in theological education.  The findings offer some surprises for embedded theological schools. Kardash and Rowe discuss why clarity about an advisory body’s role matters, why fundraising emerged as an important focus, and why some seemingly beneficial connections between advisory bodies and university governing boards actually correlated negatively with institutional effectiveness. They also consider the value of fresh perspectives, larger advisory bodies, and what Rowe calls “semi-autonomy” – allowing theological schools to benefit from being part of a larger institution while maintaining the identity and focus needed to advance their own mission. You can find more about the Governance Initiative here.

Send us Fan Mail Higher education is entering a period of significant regulatory change, with new federal proposals potentially reshaping accreditation, student loans, institutional accountability, and how the value of graduate education is measured. For theological schools, those changes raise distinctive questions about religious mission, educational outcomes, and the economic realities facing graduates. In this episode of the Good Governance Podcast, higher education consultant the Rev. David Rowe, Ph.D., and attorney and education policy expert Peter Lake, J.D., examine what the changing landscape could mean for theological education. They urge boards and senior leaders to clearly articulate their institutions’ religious identities, understand emerging regulatory pressures, and make their voices heard as policies develop. The conversation also explores the limitations of evaluating theological education primarily through graduate earnings. While schools should demonstrate value and help graduates achieve economic sustainability, Rowe and Lake argue that theological education produces outcomes that extend beyond salary, including meaningful vocation, service, spiritual formation, and stronger communities. They challenge theological schools to define and communicate what it means for graduates to flourish.  More information: The federal government's press release regarding the proposed rulemaking can be found here. You can read the proposed rule, see comments, and make comments here.  The Rev. David Rowe, Ph.D., has led schools and serves as a consultant as well as project director of the In Trust Center. He is the president and founder of WindermereConsulting. He can be reached here. An expert in education policy and law, Peter Lake is an attorney, law professor, and consultant. He can be reached via WindermereConsulting here.

Send us Fan Mail Theological education is built on centuries of tradition, but leadership expert the Rev. Tod Bolsinger, Ph.D., says the models that served institutions well in the past may not be enough for the world ahead. In this episode of the Good Governance Podcast, Bolsinger explores what adaptive leadership means for theological schools, churches, senior leaders, and governing boards navigating profound change. Rather than relying on visionary leaders with ready-made solutions, Bolsinger  argues that institutions need leaders willing to admit what they do not know, learn through experimentation, and distinguish between what is truly essential and what is simply familiar. Bolsinger brings well-rounded and deep experience as a professor, researcher, seminary administrator, author, consultant, and pastor. He suggests that the first task is not predicting the future but clarifying identity: What must an institution preserve? What is its distinctive “charism” or gift? And what problem in the world is calling for that gift? For governing boards, that requires more than reviewing reports and dashboards. Bolsinger describes discernment as “the spiritual practice of governance,” helping boards understand what should remain, what must change, and what may need to be left behind.  The conversation offers a hopeful but challenging message: Institutions cannot control the changing landscape, but they can build the adaptive capacity to faithfully navigate it. You can find out more about Tod Bolsinger here. You can find books here.

Send us Fan Mail Scott Thumma, Ph.D., has spent decades studying congregations, megachurches, and religious trends in America. In this episode, he discusses what the latest research reveals about the state of congregational life after the pandemic—and why theological education should pay attention. Drawing on the Hartford Institute for Religion Research’s extensive research project called EPIC, Exploring the Pandemic Impact on Congregations, Thumma describes an unexpected shift from post-pandemic uncertainty to renewed stability, increased attendance, stronger giving, and a growing sense of hope among many churches. He argues that congregations have discovered they can change, and that willingness to adapt may prove to be one of the pandemic's most lasting effects. The conversation also explores what seminaries should do with these findings, from preparing leaders for collaboration, technology, and entrepreneurship to rethinking assumptions about ministry in an era of changing attendance patterns and evolving spiritual practices. Rather than predicting an inevitable decline for American religion, Thumma sees new opportunities emerging – provided church leaders and theological schools are willing to innovate. Thumma recently retired as director of the Hartford Institute for Religion Research and professor of the sociology of religion at Hartford International University for Religion and Peace. The Hartford Institute for Religion Research has explored religion for more than 40 years and its work continues. It can be found here.  The Exploring the Pandemic Impact on Congregations is here.  The most recent report from the EPIC project is here.  The Faith Communities Today research is here.   You can find more information about Scott Thumma, including his CV and publications, here.

Send us Fan Mail When the board of Luther Seminary in Minnesota voted unanimously to sell its 120-year-old campus, it came after years of deep listening, careful research, and a healthy culture of shared governance. In this episode, President Robin Steinke explains how the institution was prepared to make a significant decision through years of preparation. The seminary focused on its mission, gathered meaningful data, and created a culture that encouraged curiosity instead of certainty. Steinke shares practical lessons for presidents, faculty, and trustees on navigating institutional change with transparency, trust, and courage. Whether a school is facing enrollment challenges, financial pressures, or questions about its future, this conversation offers a thoughtful framework for leading difficult conversations while remaining faithful to mission. You can read more about the move here from this June 2025 release and here from July 2025. Steinke was honored with a Distinguished Service Award at the Association of Theological Schools Biennial in June 2026. Learn more here.

Send us Fan Mail The future of theological education will require more than small adjustments – it will require leadership willing to rethink long-held assumptions. In this episode, higher education strategist Rick Staisloff reflects on decades of experience helping colleges and seminaries navigate financial, demographic, and cultural change. The conversation explores why many institutions face growing financial pressures, why today's challenges are rooted in changing markets rather than marketing, and why boards must honestly assess their long-term sustainability. Staisloff argues that strategic partnerships, from shared services to deeper institutional collaborations, are becoming an essential tool for strengthening mission rather than a sign of failure. Listeners will hear practical guidance for boards and presidents on evaluating their business models, identifying the right partners, and understanding the difference between solving immediate financial problems and pursuing long-term transformation. Above all, the discussion emphasizes that healthy institutions begin these conversations before crisis forces their hand. For theological schools committed to serving the church in a changing world, this episode offers practical insights into leading with clarity, courage, and a renewed focus on mission. You can see a piece Rick Staisloff wrote collaborative transformation here. You can read an article about Rick Staisloff's advice to board here.

Send us Fan Mail What actually makes a governing board effective, especially in times of institutional uncertainty, leadership turnover, and rapid change? In Trust Center President Amy Kardash and David Rowe, project director of the Center’s Governance Initiative, discuss of the initiative’s study – the most extensive governance study of ATS-accredited schools. Drawing from research involving more than 1,100 respondents, interviews with presidents and board chairs, and on-site board observations, the research explores the governance practices most closely tied to institutional effectiveness.  Kardash and Rowe discuss findings, including that frequent presidential turnover correlates with weaker institutional effectiveness. They discuss how boards can think beyond simply hiring leaders and move toward sustaining them through difficult seasons of change. The discussion also examines how ambiguity around board roles and governance models can undermine effectiveness, while clarity, shared expectations, and intentional board development strengthen institutional leadership.  Rather than offering simplistic formulas, the episode invites boards to ask deeper questions about mission stewardship, leadership support, and how governance must evolve to meet the realities facing theological schools today. Links mentioned in the podcast include: A Spring 2026 article about the Governance Initiative’s research. The Governance Initiative webpage, which includes a grant opportunity.

Send us Fan Mail What does it mean to finish well? The Rev. Dr. Colleen Derr reflects on one of leadership’s most difficult responsibilities: knowing when, and how, to finish well. A former seminary president, Derr draws on her experience leading Eastern Nazarene College through its final chapter and offers a candid and hopeful perspective on institutional closure. She shares the realities of financial distress, the weight of inherited decisions, and the emotional and spiritual complexity of guiding a beloved institution to its end. The story is one of faithfulness to stewarding the final chapter well. Derr highlights the importance of mission clarity, courageous leadership, and honoring people over place. For leaders navigating uncertainty, this conversation provides both practical insight and a deeply human vision for ending with integrity and purpose.

Send us Fan Mail As artificial intelligence rapidly reshapes daily life, theological leaders face deeper questions than efficiency or innovation alone. In this episode, Dr. Meghan Sullivan of the University of Notre Dame explores how AI is already transforming human experience and why this moment demands ethical and theological engagement. Drawing on new work funded by Lilly Endowment Inc., Sullivan introduces the DELTA framework to help leaders think clearly about human flourishing in an AI-driven world and encourages Christian leaders to move toward thoughtful, hope-filled engagement. She highlights the risks of outsourcing human formation to technology while also pointing to new opportunities for theological education to meet a growing cultural hunger for meaning, purpose, and spiritual depth. For seminaries, churches, and faith-based institutions, the challenge is clear: remain grounded in mission while wisely discerning whether and how to integrate AI into the work of forming people.  Find more: Learn about the DELTA framework and hear Dr. Sullivan's plenary address about it here.  Read a discussion about AI in theological education with Greg Henson and  Ruth McGillivray here.  Learn about Acadia Divinity College's experience and experimentation with AI here.  Read about how a minister experienced AI in the work here.

Send us Fan Mail Theological education is experiencing significant pressure, but the root challenge may be deeper than enrollment declines or financial strain. In this episode, Aaron Einfeld, Ph.D., discusses how institutions may often misread the moment by interpreting new realities through long-standing assumptions about how formation should occur. Many prospective leaders still desire rigorous theological preparation, yet traditional models can be inaccessible in terms of time, structure, and delivery. Einfeld, an expert in higher education and learning models, discusses the difficulty of change in organizations and how schools can make sense of their circumstances. He also suggests how schools can rethink their roles not simply as providers of accredited degrees, but as lifelong partners in developing effective ministry leaders. Churches worldwide are seeking capable, contextually grounded leadership, highlighting a potential misalignment between what seminaries offer and what ministry requires. Moving forward will likely involve difficult change, including acknowledging loss and revisiting institutional identity, but renewal is possible for schools willing to reimagine their purpose in service of the church.  You can reach Aaron Einfeld at Awaken Leadership Solutions here.

Send us Fan Mail As federal policies reshape higher education, leaders of theological schools face unprecedented pressure to adapt while staying true to their mission. In this insightful conversation, governance expert David Rowe and higher education law scholar Peter Lake examine what rapid regulatory change, funding realities, and cultural debates mean for boards and presidents today. They explore how institutions can move beyond short-term compliance to address deeper questions of mission, accountability, accreditation, and public trust. The discussion offers practical guidance on managing uncertainty, communicating educational value, and strengthening resilience in volatile times. Thoughtful and forward-looking, this episode highlights both the risks and the opportunities emerging from today’s policy environment – equipping leaders to govern wisely, act strategically, and sustain mission-driven education for the future. For previous discussions on governance and regulation, see: Ep. 96: Navigating new realities – policy shifts and theological education Ep. 92: Faith, law, and the future: Governance in a shifting regulatory environment Ep. 89: Rooted and ready: Strengthening theological schools amid regulatory upheaval For David Rowe's Windermere Consulting, go here. For Peter Lake, you can find more here.

Send us Fan Mail What does faithful leadership look like for theological schools in 2026? In this forward-looking conversation, Frank Yamada,  executive director of the Association of Theological Schools, and Amy Kardash, the president of the In Trust Center, reflect on a season marked by both turbulence and possibility. In conversation with host Matt Hufman, they examine how creativity is emerging amid regulatory uncertainty, financial pressure, and leadership transition – and why collaboration across institutions has become one of the field’s greatest strengths. Drawing on recent data, grant initiatives, and board research, the discussion highlights reasons for cautious optimism, including enrollment growth and new approaches to theological formation. The episode concludes with a thoughtful look at artificial intelligence, inviting leaders to engage both the theological questions and the practical realities of a technology already reshaping higher education. The conversation frames several timely questions for school leaders and board of directors as they plan for the year ahead.  This episode includes discussion about several resources. Those include: Out of Chaos Comes Creativity — a discussion with Frank Yamada Notre Dame University’s DELTA framework for considering artificial intelligence Considering the value proposition of theological education from the winter 2026 In Trust magazine. A piece about executive turnover in ATS-accredited schools by Frank Yamada. The December 2025 issue of the ATS newsletter Colloquy, which includes information about enrollment increases.

Send us Fan Mail What are the trends in governance – the new ways to make things work? First, look to the past. Governance expert Rebekah Basinger, Ed.D., reflects on what theological schools can learn by revisiting enduring principles of board leadership. Drawing on decades of experience, the conversation explores why good governance wisdom remains remarkably consistent – even as pressures from finances, regulation, and post-COVID realities intensify. Basinger names challenges such as executive turnover, shrinking and fatigued boards, and the lingering effects of “long COVID” on board culture and engagement. At the same time, she offers a hopeful vision: boards that reclaim their fiduciary role, invest in meaningful relationships, and approach governance as shared stewardship of mission. The episode invites board members and leaders alike to slow down, ask better questions, and rediscover why their work – and their presence – truly matters.

Send us Fan Mail In this episode, the Rev. Dr. David Rowe reflects on the sweeping changes affecting higher education and how these pressures are reshaping theological schools. Demographic decline, reduced church demand, and shrinking revenue streams have created intense competition among an oversupply of institutions. Rowe argues that schools must clarify their value proposition by understanding what students actually need and are willing to pay for. He highlights the importance of distinguishing between service, experience, and transformational educational models and aligning each with sustainable economics. He encourages boards to rethink mission, foster experimentation, and explore new audiences to meet today’s real ministry and societal needs. You can find David Rowe at Windermere Consulting here.  Daniel O. Aleshire's book mentioned in the podcast is here.