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After decades in education, Dr. Peter Liljedahl realized that many classrooms fail to engage the people inside them. Rather than accept that reality, he began challenging every classroom norm he could find, asking a single question of each one: does this increase thinking? What followed was a decades-long effort to redesign learning environments from the ground up, dramatically increasing student engagement and understanding. In this revisited episode, Dart and Peter discuss how rethinking classroom norms can reshape learning, collaboration, and the design of work itself. Dr. Peter Liljedahl is an author, researcher, and professor of mathematics education at Simon Fraser University in Vancouver, Canada. His work focuses on increasing thinking, engagement, and collaboration through classroom design. In this episode, Dart and Peter discuss: - Peter’s redesign of the classroom and how it can be applied to work - How to create an environment that cultivates thinking - Transforming norms to achieve better results - The importance of collaboration in work and learning - The best ways to evaluate employee performance - Deconstructing ideas into actionable points - What creates “Aha!” moments - The structure of a good task - And other topics… Dr. Peter Liljedahl is a professor of mathematics education at Simon Fraser University in Vancouver, Canada. His work focuses on increasing thinking, engagement, and collaboration through classroom design. He is the author of Building Thinking Classrooms in Mathematics and works internationally with educators, schools, and education systems. His work has been recognized with the Cmolik Prize for the Enhancement of Public Education and the Fields Institute’s Margaret Sinclair Memorial Award for Innovation and Excellence in Mathematics Education. Resources mentioned: Building Thinking Classrooms in Mathematics, Grades K-12, by Peter Liljedahl: https://www.amazon.com/Building-Thinking-Classrooms-Mathematics-Grades/dp/1544374836 Weapons of the Weak, by James Scott: https://www.amazon.com/Weapons-Weak-Everyday-Peasant-Resistance/dp/0300036418 A Pattern Language, by Christopher Alexander: https://www.amazon.com/Pattern-Language-Buildings-Construction-Environmental/dp/0195019199 Connect with Peter: X: https://x.com/pgliljedahl https://buildingthinkingclassrooms.com/ Work with Dart: Dart is the CEO and co-founder of the work design firm 11fold. Build work that makes employees feel alive, connected to their work, and focused on what’s most important to the business. Book a call at 11fold.com.

Ethical questions at work rarely show up as rules or compliance issues. They show up in the systems organizations design and the outcomes those systems produce. And even well-intentioned leaders can create harm without meaning to. In this episode, Dart and Ed explore legitimacy, responsibility, employees, power, and why acting ethically inside complex systems is so difficult, even when people know what the right thing is. Ed Freeman is best known for stakeholder theory, which challenged the idea that companies exist only to serve shareholders. He argues instead that businesses are built on relationships, and that ethics and strategy can’t be separated. In this episode, Dart and Ed discuss: - Why stakeholder theory was never “shareholders versus everyone else” - What legitimacy means and why companies lose it - How ethics and strategy got separated - Why values come before business models - Managing stakeholders vs. building relationships - Why interdependence matters more than primacy - When trade-offs signal a lack of imagination - How ignoring people can lead to harm - Why ethics can’t be outsourced to regulation - What it means to act ethically inside complex systems - And other topics… R. Edward Freeman is Stephen E. Bachand University Professor of Business Administration and Olsson Professor of Business Administration at the University of Virginia’s Darden School of Business. He previously taught at the Wharton School and the University of Minnesota. His work focuses on stakeholder theory, business ethics, and the role of purpose in strategy. He is the author of the award-winning Strategic Management: A Stakeholder Approach and numerous articles on ethics, value creation, and capitalism. Resources Mentioned: Ed’s Book, Strategic Management: A Stakeholder Approach: https://www.amazon.com/Strategic-Management-R-Edward-Freeman/dp/0521151740 Ed’s Podcast, The Stakeholder Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-stakeholder-podcast/id1526139352 Connect with Ed: Darden faculty page: https://www.darden.virginia.edu/faculty-research/directory/r-edward-freeman LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/r-edward-freeman-98b8897/ Work with Dart: Dart is the CEO and co-founder of the work design firm 11fold. Build work that makes employees feel alive, connected to their work, and focused on what’s most important to the business. Book a call at 11fold.com.

Experience is brand. The experiences people have with a company shape how they feel, what they trust, and whether they stay. Creating those experiences is not just about interfaces or marketing. It requires rethinking internal processes, digital systems, and the everyday realities of work. Alder Yarrow has spent decades helping organizations understand experience from the inside out, and why lasting growth depends on getting it right. In this revisited episode, Dart and Alder talk about experience as brand and define experience design and experience modeling. They also discuss employees as customers and how companies can understand their specific needs. Alder Yarrow is an experience designer, advisor, and writer. He has spent over 25 years creating customer experiences for some of the world’s leading brands. In this episode, Dart and Alder discuss: - How experience becomes brand over time - What experience design really means - What experience modeling is and why it matters - Why employees should be treated as customers of work - How companies can better understand employee needs - Why in-context studies matter more than surveys - The Manager Work Practice Study - Grounded theory and its role in research - Experience design versus user experience - The Jobs-To-Be-Done theory - The say do gap - What changes when you redesign employee experience - Trauma-aware management - And other topics… Alder Yarrow has spent over 25 years helping organizations understand experience from the inside out. He has led brand and experience work for companies including Google, Twitter, Home Depot, and Tesla, and previously founded the experience design firm HYDRANT. He later served as Chief Experience Officer at Cibo and is also the founder and editor of Vinography and the author of The Essence of Wine. Resources Mentioned: The Innovator’s Dilemma by Clayton M. Christensen: https://www.amazon.com/Innovators-Dilemma-Technologies-Management-Innovation/dp/1633691780 Alder’s blog, Vinography: https://www.vinography.com/ Connect with Alder Yarrow: Website: https://www.vinography.com/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/alderyarrow/  Work with Dart: Dart is the CEO and co-founder of the work design firm 11fold. Build work that makes employees feel alive, connected to their work, and focused on what’s most important to the business. Book a call at 11fold.com.

While leading L&D at Creative Force, Aaron Horwath and his leaders began treating work as a product to be designed. That shift had wide effects, including something unexpected. Creative Force became one of the few companies to implement AI in a way that actually improved the experience of work. Instead of chasing tools, Aaron and his team started with people. In this episode, Dart and Aaron discuss why starting with people led to AI success, how work can be designed as a product, and what it takes to prepare humans for a fast-approaching future. Aaron Horwath is the Director of AI Operations at Creative Force. He helps teams redesign work by starting with people and using AI to reduce friction and improve the experience of work. In this episode, Dart and Aaron discuss: - Why AI should start with people, not tools - How treating work as a product changes everything - Finding the work that drains people and removing it - Using the bubble chart to redesign jobs - The difference between human work and AI work - How non technical teams are building real software - Why AI shortens the relay race of work - Why soft skills matter more in an AI world - How AI can make work more expressive - What leaders get wrong about AI adoption - And more… Aaron Horwath is the Director of AI Operations at Creative Force, where he leads the company’s move toward AI augmented work. He previously led Learning and Development at the company, where he began treating work as a product and focusing on reducing friction in how people do their jobs. His work centers on starting with real business problems, understanding what work people love or hate, and using AI to remove low value tasks. Aaron takes a people first approach to AI, helping teams spend more time on meaningful, value generating work. Resources Mentioned: Creative Force: https://www.creativeforce.io Connect with Aaron: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/aaronhorwath Work with Dart: Dart is the CEO and co-founder of the work design firm 11fold. Build work that makes employees feel alive, connected to their work, and focused on what’s most important to the business. Book a call at 11fold.com.

Every building comes with a set of expectations. Students are quiet in a library, but loud on a playground. Adults are focused in their deckchairs yet chatty on bar stools. Witnessing the limitations of conventional building design, Jan Golembiewski began to leverage design psychology to improve the lives of different groups, from inmates to the elderly. As one of the world’s leading researchers in architectural design psychology, Dr. Golembiewski works to create spaces that prioritize health and overall flourishing. In this revisited episode, Dart and Jan discuss how salutogenic design works, how the spaces around us shape the way we think and feel, and what it means to create workplaces and buildings where people can truly thrive. Dr. Jan Golembiewski is an architect and researcher focused on the psychology of the built environment. He studies how design can support health, dignity, and human flourishing. In this episode, Dart and Jan discuss: - A unique design approach called salutogenesis - Designing a workplace where employees can thrive - Salutogenic architecture - Balancing affordances and choices in design - The narrative context embedded in architecture - How money-driven architecture affects livability - The key traits of salutogenic architects - And other topics… Dr. Jan Golembiewski is an architect and researcher who specializes in the psychology of the built environment. He is the director and nominated architect of Psychological Design and the co-founder and CEO of Earthbuilt Technology. His work explores how architectural settings affect health, behavior, and well-being, with a particular focus on salutogenic design. Golembiewski received his Ph.D. in architecture from the University of Sydney and has served as an adjunct professor and a judge for international design and health awards. Resources mentioned: Claus Raasted and Paul Bulencea on Work for Humans: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-art-of-transformation-experience-design/id1612743401?i=1000623034271 The Battle for the Life and Beauty of the Earth, by Christopher Alexander: https://www.amazon.com/Battle-Life-Beauty-Earth-World-Systems/dp/0199898073 Magic, by Jan Golembiewski: https://www.amazon.com/Magic-Jan-Golembiewski-ebook/dp/B07J5RNFWV Connect with Jan: Website: www.psychological.design LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jan-golembiewski-a4802a15/ Google Scholar: https://scholar.google.com/citations?user=vwuUGOkAAAAJ&hl=en&oi=ao Work with Dart: Dart is the CEO and co-founder of the work design firm 11fold. Build work that makes employees feel alive, connected to their work, and focused on what’s most important to the business. Book a call at 11fold.com.

Ideas don’t grow on their own. Something has to amplify them. Universities amplify what they teach, consultants amplify what they recommend, and money amplifies the ideas it chooses to back. If we want to understand how work changes at scale, we have to look at how capital shapes which ideas take root. Virginie Raphaël is redesigning that amplifier.  In this episode, Dart and Virginie discuss how venture capital amplifies ideas, how trust networks shape who gets funded, and why rethinking the incentives behind early-stage investing may be key to building a more equitable future of work. Virginie Raphaël is the Founder and Managing Partner of FullCircle, a perpetual pre-seed venture fund. She invests in founders building a more equitable, sustainable, and prosperous workforce. In this episode, Dart and Virginie discuss: - How money amplifies ideas and shapes systems at scale - Why traditional venture funds push short-term returns - How a perpetual fund changes founder–investor alignment - Why trust networks shape who gets funded - The danger of capital crowding into the same ideas - What pre-seed investing really means for founder risk - Why geography still matters in early-stage innovation - How AI hype is distorting investment decisions - What she looks for in founders who want to change work - Why impact and market returns don’t have to conflict - And other topics… Virginie Raphaël is the Founder and Managing Partner of FullCircle, a perpetual pre-seed fund focused on building a more equitable and sustainable workforce. Before founding the firm, she was a Managing Director at Tusk Ventures and previously worked in banking at Lehman Brothers and Barclays. She has spent her career supporting early-stage founders in complex and highly regulated sectors. Resources Mentioned: FullCircle: https://www.fullcirclefund.io/ Connect with Virginie: Twitter: https://x.com/VirginieRaphael LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/virginie-raphael-7197271/  Work with Dart: Dart is the CEO and co-founder of the work design firm 11fold. Build work that makes employees feel alive, connected to their work, and focused on what’s most important to the business. Book a call at 11fold.com.

Dan Cable was doing his job and getting compensated for it, but there was a problem: he was going through the motions with no growth, learning, or sense of excitement. He knew he needed to make a change to excel. By exploring the neuroscience behind thriving at work, Dan has since used his experience to help companies like Coca-Cola and Twitter (now X) optimize employee conditions. In this revisited episode, Dart and Dan discuss the neuroscience of enthusiastic employees, the practices that shut people down, and what we can do to set them free. Dan Cable is a researcher, author, and Professor of Organizational Behavior at the London Business School. He is the author of Alive at Work and uses his expertise to assist clients like Coca-Cola, Twitter, McDonald’s, and Prudential. In this episode, Dart and Dan discuss: - Dan’s book, Alive at Work - The biology behind enthusiastic employees - How Dan helped reduce a company’s turnover by 30% - Why experimentation and play at work are essential - Creating conditions for experimentation without risking company goals - What stifles employee energy - Playing to the strengths of your team - The type of leadership that creates thriving employees - How managers can create personalized work - And other topics… Daniel M. Cable is a researcher, author, and Professor of Organizational Behavior at London Business School. He uses his expertise to assist clients like Coca-Cola, Twitter, McDonald’s, and Prudential, among others. He has won the London Business School’s Excellence in Teaching Award and was selected for the 2018 Thinkers50 Radar List. Dan holds a BA from Penn State University and an MS Ph.D. from Cornell. He has published three books – Change to Strange, Alive at Work, and Exceptional – as well as more than 50 articles in top scientific journals. His work has been featured in The Economist, The New York Times, The Wall Street Journal, and CNBC. Resources Mentioned: Alive at Work, by Daniel Cable: https://www.amazon.com/Alive-Work-Neuroscience-Helping-People/dp/1633697665 Design for Belonging, by Susie Wise: https://www.amazon.com/Design-Belonging-Inclusion-Collaboration-Communities-ebook/dp/B0998BMN9H Connect with Dan: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dan-cable-a0b581a0/ Twitter: @dancable1 Website: www.dan-cable.com Work with Dart: Dart is the CEO and co-founder of the work design firm 11fold. Build work that makes employees feel alive, connected to their work, and focused on what’s most important to the business. Book a call at 11fold.com.

We experience the world through what we notice, how we feel, and what we remember. Yet most organizations still focus on products instead of the experiences those products create. Mat Duerden has spent his career studying how experiences work, why they matter, and what turns an ordinary moment into something meaningful or even transformative. In this episode, Dart and Mat discuss what makes an experience meaningful and how reflection deepens its impact. They look at how organizations can build experience playbooks that bring brand, culture, and design together into one coherent story. Mat Duerden is the Department Chair of Experience Design and Management at the Marriott School of Business at Brigham Young University. He is the co-author of Designing Experiences and a researcher focused on how experiences become memorable, meaningful, and transformative. In this episode, Dart and Mat discuss: - Why attention drives every experience - What makes experiences memorable, meaningful, or transformative? - What designers of work can learn from studying leisure - How core design principles travel across contexts - Why experiences should be orchestrated, not staged. - How hardship can make experiences more powerful - How shared experiences build connection - What Bach and river rafting have in common - How telling the story helps learning stick - And other topics… Mat Duerden is the Department Chair of the Experience Design and Management program at the Marriott School of Business at Brigham Young University. His research examines how experiences become memorable, meaningful, and transformative, with a focus on reflection, storytelling, and attention. He is the co-author of Designing Experiences, written with Bob Rossman, and teaches experience design across business, education, and leisure contexts. Prior to academia, Mat worked extensively in outdoor recreation and youth development, shaping his interest in how shared experiences create connection. Resources Mentioned: Designing Experiences, by Mat Duerden & Bob Rossman: https://www.amazon.com/Designing-Experiences-Columbia-Business-Publishing/dp/0231191685 Nicomachean Ethics, by Aristotle: https://www.amazon.com/Nicomachean-Ethics-Penguin-Classics/dp/0140449493 Experience Economy, by Joe Pine & James Gilmore: https://www.amazon.com/Experience-Economy-Updated-Joseph-Pine/dp/1422161978 Connect with Mat: Faculty Page: https://marriott.byu.edu/directory/details?id=5773 LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mat-duerden-8740969/ Work with Dart: Dart is the CEO and co-founder of the work design firm 11fold. Build work that makes employees feel alive, connected to their work, and focused on what’s most important to the business. Book a call at 11fold.com.

In an ideal world, college would help students explore possibilities and imagine a future that fits who they are. Instead, many choose majors before they know themselves and get pushed onto a career conveyor belt with little space to discover what matters to them. Farouk Dey wants to change that. His work encourages students to pause, experiment, and learn from real experiences before deciding where they want to go. In this episode, Dart and Dr. Farouk Dey discuss how life design can help students find direction through experimentation, and how universities can create fuller, more meaningful journeys for the people they serve. Dr. Farouk Dey is the President of Palo Alto University. He has spent more than two decades reimagining how universities help students prepare for life and work. In this episode, Dart and Farouk discuss: - The Imagine Center for Integrative Learning and Life Design - How economic shifts drive national career changes - The growing need to develop minds, not just careers - Changing the outdated career service models of American universities - Balancing competition and curiosity when choosing a career - The importance of experiential learning for life design - How universities can give students a higher return on their investment - Farouk’s advice for companies who want to build a life design center - How to construct your passion – not find it - And other topics… Dr. Farouk Dey is the President of Palo Alto University and the former Vice Provost for Integrative Learning and Life Design at Johns Hopkins University. He previously held senior roles at Stanford University and Carnegie Mellon University, where he led work in career and experiential education. His focus is helping students navigate learning, work, and meaning through applied design principles. Dr. Dey holds a PhD and EdS in Higher Education Administration, an MBA, an MEd in Counseling Psychology, and a BBA in Finance. Resources mentioned: Bill Burnett on Work For Humans: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/designing-your-life-how-to-use-design-principles-to/id1612743401?i=1000738307337 Connect with Farouk: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/faroukdey/ Work with Dart: Dart is the CEO and co-founder of the work design firm 11fold. Build work that makes employees feel alive, connected to their work, and focused on what’s most important to the business. Book a call at 11fold.com.

Friction is part of every workplace. It shows up in the meetings that don’t need to happen, the unclear steps, and the small barriers that make work harder than it has to be. It’s a cost we’ve come to accept, but it doesn’t need to stay that way. When we look more closely, we start to see the real experience of work where people get stuck, where energy drains away, and where better design could help them thrive. In this episode, Dart and Stephanie Denino discuss what friction really means, how language shapes the way we think about work, and why AI is putting new pressure on workflow design. Stephanie Denino is Head of Advisory at FOUNT Global and a Managing Director at TI People. She helps leaders understand friction in workflows and redesign work so people can get things done with less effort. In this episode, Dart and Stephanie discuss: - Why friction is “the tax you pay when work is poorly designed” - How workers describe friction in their day-to-day tasks - Why focusing on workflow changes how leaders see problems - The two types of workflows inside organizations - How language shapes the way leaders talk about work - Why HR is becoming central to workflow design with AI - What friction reveals about customer outcomes and capacity - How process diagrams mask the lived experience of work - How product thinking improves workflow design - And other topics… Stephanie Denino is the Head of Advisory at FOUNT Global and a Managing Director at TI People, where she helps organizations identify and reduce friction in employee workflows using data and design. Before joining TI People, she spent more than a decade at Accenture in experience design and talent transformation roles. Her work centers on improving how people get work done through better systems, clearer processes, and intentional practices. Resources: FOUNT Global: https://www.fount-ex.com/ Connect with Stephanie: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/stephaniedenino/ Work with Dart: Dart is the CEO and co-founder of the work design firm 11fold. Build work that makes employees feel alive, connected to their work, and focused on what’s most important to the business. Book a call at 11fold.com.

From kitchen tables to self-driving cars, everything around us was designed to solve a problem. Bill Burnett, award-winning Silicon Valley designer, believes we can use the same approach to design careers that bring fulfillment and joy. By using curiosity, reframing, collaboration, and other tools, Bill shows how to enjoy the present while shaping a better future. In this revisited episode, Dart and Bill discuss how to adopt a design mindset for life and work, tackle the sunk-cost fallacy, rethink work-life balance, and share practical management advice. Bill is an award-winning designer, New York Times bestselling author, adjunct professor, and Executive Director of the Life Design Lab at Stanford University. Throughout his career, Bill has designed everything from the first slate computer to Hasbro Star Wars action figures, assisting and advising Fortune 100 companies and start-ups alike. In this episode, Dart and Bill discuss: - The design mindset you need to build the life you want - The problem with hyper-focusing on one goal - How to reframe problems to discover new solutions - Avoiding the sunk-cost fallacy - Enjoying what you have while building a brighter future - Management advice for interviewing and hiring adaptable employees - An antidote for the work-life balance problem - And other topics… Bill Burnett is an award-winning Silicon Valley designer and New York Times best-selling author. He currently serves as the Adjunct Professor and Executive Director of the Life Design Lab at Stanford University, and over 350 universities now use his curriculum on how to design your life. Throughout his career, he has designed everything from the first slate computer to Hasbro Star Wars action figures in the toy industry, assisting and advising Fortune 100 companies and start-ups alike. Bill is the co-author of the bestselling book Designing Your Life and recently published Designing Your New Work Life, both of which have garnered significant acclaim. His impact on design, education, and professional development continues to shape industries and inspire aspiring designers worldwide. Resources Mentioned: Designing Your New Work Life, by Bill Burnett and Dave Evans: https://www.amazon.com/Designing-Your-Work-Life-Happiness/dp/0593467450 Designing Your Life, by Bill Burnett and Dave Evans: https://www.amazon.com/Designing-Your-Life-Well-Lived-Joyful/dp/1101875321 Connect with Bill: www.DesigningYour.Life Work with Dart: Dart is the CEO and co-founder of the work design firm 11fold. Build work that makes employees feel alive, connected to their work, and focused on what’s most important to the business. Book a call at 11fold.com.

Dropbox didn’t just adapt to remote work. It redesigned work itself. After the pandemic, Melanie Rosenwasser and her team joined forces with Dropbox’s designers to study how people actually work and what they need to do their best thinking. Backed by data, they made the leap to their Virtual First operating model in which the vast majority of the workforce is remote and physical spaces are used primarily for planned team events. In this episode, Dart and Melanie explore how Dropbox leadership supported the move to work-as-a-product, how design thinking has fundamentally reshaped the people function, and what it takes to build human-centered systems at scale. Melanie Rosenwasser is the Chief People Officer at Dropbox and a key architect of its Virtual First model. She focuses on designing human-centered, high-impact ways of working. In this episode, Dart and Melanie discuss: - How Dropbox rebuilt its operating model - Why most companies misunderstand remote and hybrid work - The principles behind Virtual First - What happens when HR behaves like a product team - How clarity, norms, and intentionality replace meetings - The experiments that changed how Dropbox collaborates - How leadership transforms in a remote-forward world - Why work must be designed, not assumed - And other topics… Melanie Rosenwasser is the Chief People Officer at Dropbox, where she leads the global HR organization spanning People Operations and Tech, Total Rewards, Talent Acquisition, Learning and Organizational Development, People Analytics, and Employee Experience. She is known for championing innovative talent practices, cultivating continuous learning cultures, and designing workplaces where people can do their best work. Melanie is a lecturer in Columbia University’s Human Capital Management program and a key architect of Dropbox’s Virtual First model. Resources Mentioned: Virtual First: https://experience.dropbox.com/virtualfirst Dropbox blog, Work in Progress: https://blog.dropbox.com/ Connect with Melanie: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/melanierosenwasser/  Work with Dart: Dart is the CEO and co-founder of the work design firm 11fold. Build work that makes employees feel alive, connected to their work, and focused on what’s most important to the business. Book a call at 11fold.com.

Stacy Barton was assigned an exhaustive project at 9 pm and had to complete it by 6 am if she wanted to receive a paycheck. While most of us would have deflated under the pressure, Stacy saw an opportunity; it was time to get creative. By being inventive and working around the rules, she learned how to deliver a product that companies, employees, and her audience love. In this revisited episode, Stacy shares how constraints spark creativity, why the audience is always the star, and how storytelling can transform leadership, teamwork, and workplace culture. Stacy has been creating multimillion-dollar immersive experiences for over 37 years as a designer, award-winning writer, and story lead. She uses her creativity to work with high-network individuals and companies like Disney, Ringling Bros, DreamVision, and SeaWorld, among others. In this episode, Dart and Stacy discuss: - Creating an immersive experience to engage customers - How to show your customers/employees you care about them - Discovering the story behind your brand - Finding employees that complement your company - The importance of appreciation at work - Applying storytelling to real-world business problems - Being creative within the constraints of work - And more… Stacy Barton has been creating immersive experiences as a designer, writer, and story lead for over 37 years. Utilizing immense creativity and problem-solving skills, she helps build multimillion-dollar pop-up experiences, escape rooms, shows, and theme park areas for high-network individuals and companies, including Disney, Ringling Bros, DreamVision, and SeaWorld. As a writer, Stacy brings stories to life through her scripts, narrative development, and novels. She is the award-winning author of three books, five children’s picture books, and over 30 magazine publications. She presented as a panelist for the National Association of Writers and Writing Program and is a speaker for events such as the F. Scott Fitzgerald Literary Conference and the Disney Institute. Resources Mentioned: Why We Work, by Barry Schwartz: https://www.amazon.com/Why-We-Work-Barry-Schwartz/dp/144237814X Connect with Stacy: Website: https://www.stacybarton.com/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/stacy-barton-58b7997/ Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/stores/Stacy-Barton/author/B001JS4R6A Work with Dart: Dart is the CEO and co-founder of the work design firm 11fold. Build work that makes employees feel alive, connected to their work, and focused on what’s most important to the business. Book a call at 11fold.com.

Modern work is haunted by an idea that began in feudal Europe. The Master Servant Doctrine gave employers the right to command and control workers while imposing a duty to provide for them. That ancient logic still shapes the modern workplace — from “at-will” employment and HR policies designed to protect companies, to benefits that bind people to their jobs. In this episode, Dart and Elizabeth explore how feudal ideas of control and obligation still structure employment today, and what it would take to build something better. Elizabeth Tippett teaches employment law and legal ethics at the University of Oregon School of Law. She is the author of The Master Servant Doctrine, and her research examines how historical legal frameworks continue to influence the modern workplace. In this episode, Dart and Elizabeth discuss: - How feudal law still shapes modern work - The three pillars of the Master Servant Doctrine - Why “at-will” employment persists in the U.S. - How HR became a modern tool of control - Why employee benefits reinforce dependency - The moral legacy of servitude in labor law - How law and culture preserve inequality at work - What a modern social contract for labor might look like - And other topics… Elizabeth Tippett is Professor and James O. and Alfred T. Goodwin Senior Fellow at the University of Oregon School of Law. She teaches courses on employment law, torts, negotiation, and dispute resolution, and her research examines how historical legal doctrines continue to shape modern employment practices. She is the author of The Master Servant Doctrine: How Old Legal Rules Haunt the Modern Workplace, forthcoming from Stanford University Press in 2025. Resources Mentioned: The Master–Servant Doctrine: How Old Legal Rules Haunt the Modern Workplace, by Elizabeth Tippett: https://www.amazon.com/Master-Servant-Doctrine-Legal-Modern-Workplace/dp/0520382323 Connect with Elizabeth: Website: https://liztippett.com  Work with Dart: Dart is the CEO and co-founder of the work design firm 11fold. Build work that makes employees feel alive, connected to their work, and focused on what’s most important to the business. Book a call at 11fold.com.

Most organizations think about the design of work in terms of products, services, or customer journeys. But Dave Norton has spent his career arguing that experience design goes much deeper. It is about shaping how people spend their time and, in some cases, their lives. In this episode, Dart talks to Dave about how experience design has evolved, why context matters more than personality, and how AI may finally make transformational design scalable. Dave Norton is the founder of Stone Mantel, an insights consultancy focused on helping companies create meaningful experiences for their customers and employees. A pioneer in experience strategy, he helps organizations across industries rethink the meaning of time, transformation, and context in design. In this episode, Dart and Dave discuss: - The evolution of experience design - Why context matters more than customer psychology - How to design time that is well saved, well spent, and well invested - Why transformation requires discomfort - The power of modes and modularity in designing for focus - How to design whole offerings that get the “whole job” done - Why AI could help scale transformational design - And other topics… Dave Norton is the founder of Stone Mantel, the experience strategy firm built on the belief that meaningful work is less about what you sell and more about how people spend their time. He began working with Joe Pine, co-author of The Experience Economy, in the early 2000s and in 2005 launched Stone Mantel to help organizations design experiences that are “time well spent.” Over the years, he has guided clients across industries, including healthcare, banking, and hospitality, shifting the focus from features to whole offerings and from channels to moments. Resources Mentioned: Stone Mantle: https://www.stonemantel.co/ The Experience Strategist (Substack): https://theexperiencestrategist.substack.com/ The Experience Economy, by B. Joseph Pine II and James H. Gilmore: https://www.amazon.com/Experience-Economy-Competing-Customers-Service/dp/1422161978 Connect with Dave: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/davenortonphd/  Work with Dart: Dart is the CEO and co-founder of the work design firm 11fold. Build work that makes employees feel alive, connected to their work, and focused on what’s most important to the business. Book a call at 11fold.com.