We Dissent is a monthly law podcast hosted by two secular women, who are also attorneys at the Freedom From Religion Foundation and Americans United for Separation of Church and State. Join us as we discuss developments affecting the separation of church and state in the US Supreme Court and lower federal courts. We'll also explore other advocacy work we do to help atheists and other nonreligious people outside the courtroom. We know there are so many atheist podcasts and legal podcasts and you have a lot to choose from, but we hope you'll join us, the only legal podcast for atheists and agnostics hosted completely by women lawyers. We can't wait to start these conversations.
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Alison, Liz, and Rebecca discuss the Trump administration's Religious Liberty Commission and break down its draft report. They explain how the commission and its report fit into the administration's broader effort to push a Christian nationalist narrative that redefines religious liberty to advance Christian supremacy.
Background
Religious Liberty Commission
Religious Liberty for All: Celebrating This Founding Freedom at America 250 - Center for American Progress
Interfaith Event hosted by Center for American Progress
OLC Opinion: "Constitutionality of Religious Restrictions on the Use of Federal Funds"
Cases
Interfaith Alliance v. Trump
Opinion
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Our website, we-dissent.org, has more information as well as episode transcripts.
Christian Nationalism in Education with Maya Henson
2026/09/16
Alison, Liz, and Rebecca welcome Maya Henson, Senior Research Analyst with the Southern Poverty Law Center's Intelligence Project, for a deep dive into the impact of Christian supremacy and anti-student inclusion movements on public education. They discuss the many strategies used by Christian nationalists to influence our public schools—from curriculum control and book bans to release-time religious programs and the weaponization of "parental rights."
Show Notes
Southern Poverty Law Center
Resources
Support Our Schools (public education defense group)
Read Freely Alabama
Stop Moms for Liberty
Cases
Brown v. Board of Education of Topeka (1954)
Engel v. Vitale (1962)
Illinois ex rel. McCollum v. Board of Ed. of School Dist. No. 71, Champaign County (1948)
"American Library Association releases 2025 Most Challenged Books List as National Library Week Begins"
Parents Defending Education v. Wellesley Public Schools (2022)
AP - "District settles lawsuit over groups for students of color"
Mahmoud v. Taylor (2025)
NWLC - "Breaking Down the Supreme Court's Decision in Mahmoud v. Taylor: Why It is More Important Than Ever to Advocate for Inclusive Schools"
Democracy Forward - "Back to School, and Back in Court: The Weaponization of Mahmoud v. Taylor"
Episode 42 – High Unholy Season Continues: Mahmoud v. Taylor
Maya's Bio
Maya Henson is a senior research analyst with the Southern Poverty Law Center's Intelligence Project, where she focuses on the antigovernment movement, which includes the anti-student inclusion movement.
Before joining the SPLC, Maya spent over 10 years in higher education, which along with her academic background provides a unique perspective to monitoring and exposing extremism in public education.
Since joining SPLC, she has provided expert analysis on topics such as the dangers of the newly revived Florida State Guard, the parallels in the current anti-student inclusion movement to anti-integration fights 70 years ago, students mobilizing to fight censorship, and the contradictions and potential threats of curriculum and book bans. In addition to SPLC outlets, Maya's analysis has been featured in the National Urban League's State of Black America, as well as in international, national, and local media.
Maya has a B.S. in business administration from Stillman College, an M.A. in psychology, an M.Ed. in higher education administration, and an MLS is Indigenous Peoples law. She also holds an Ed.D. with a concentration in diversity and equity education from the University of Illinois, where her primary research focus was the experiences of minority students in higher education.
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Our website, we-dissent.org, has more information as well as episode transcripts.
SCOTUS Term Round Up
2026/08/19
Alison, Liz, and Rebecca recap the recent Supreme Court term and its implications for religious liberty. They break down the Court's rulings on conversion therapy bans, religious rights for prisoners, and transgender sports bans in public schools. They also discuss the ever-expanding "shadow docket" and the Court's alarming preference for deciding cases with no public hearing, briefing, or transparency.
Cases
Chiles v. Salazar
SCOTUSblog
Opinion
Previous episode: "Conversion Therapy" at the Supreme Court
Conversion "Therapy" Laws - Movement Advancement Project
Landor v. Louisiana
SCOTUSblog
Opinion
Previous episode: Religion Behind Bars Reprise: Landor v. Louisiana
Tanzin v. Tanvir (2020)
American Atheists Amicus
City of Boerne v. Flores (1997)
West Virginia v. B.P.J. and Little v. Hecox
SCOTUSblog
Opinion
Previous episode: The Supreme Court Tackles Trans Sports Bans with Shiwali Patel
Mirabelli v. Bonta
SCOTUSblog
Opinion
Mahmoud v. Taylor (2025)
Danco Laboratories v. Louisiana Application
SCOTUSblog
Grant of stay
St. Mary Catholic v. Roy
10th Circuit Opinion
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Our website, we-dissent.org, has more information as well as episode transcripts.
Rededicate 250 & the "Eradicating Anti-Christian Bias" Taskforce
2026/07/14
America turns 250 and the Trump Administration is celebrating by rewriting the past and the present. Alison, Liz, and Rebecca discuss how the administration hijacked the nation's planned bipartisan 250th anniversary celebration and turned it into a tax-payer funded Christian nationalist prayer revival. Then they dig into the report issued by the "Taskforce to Eradicate Anti-Christian Bias," one of several task forces created by the administration to manufacture a "Christian persecution" narrative in order to privilege conservative Christianity under the law.
Show Notes
The report on "Biden Admin Weaponization of the FACE Act" (Freedom of Access to Clinic Entrances)
Just Security - "Separating Fact from Fiction in FACE Act Enforcement"
National Women's Law Center: "The President's Slush Fund: A Gift to the Anti-Abortion Movement and a Blow to Our Democracy"
Federal Register: Establishment of the Religious Liberty Commission
"Anti-Christian bias taskforce report" April 30, 2026
Executive Order 14291- Establishing the Religious Liberty Commission
Cases
Americans United for Separation of Church and State v. U.S. Dept. of State
Americans United for Separation of Church and State v. U.S. Dept. of Veterans Affairs
Interfaith Alliance v. Trump
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Our website, we-dissent.org, has more information as well as episode transcripts.
Bonus! From Progress Texas: Resisting Christian Nationalism with Rebecca Markert of Americans United
2026/07/10
We Dissent co-host Rebecca Markert was recently featured on "In Progress," a part of the Progress Texas podcast network. Please enjoy this episode of In Progress while you wait for our next episode!
From Dan Patrick's declaration that the separation of church and state is dead, to Texas Republicans kicking Muslims out of their state convention in Houston, to the Ten Commandments and bible stories permeating our public schools, the takeover by Christian Nationalism of Republican politics is no longer a theory - it's real, and it's here, right now. How to resist is now one of the primary questions for progressive people - and we've brought on Rebecca Markert to discuss that question. She's the Vice President and Legal Director of Americans United For Separation of Church and State, a national organization dedicated solely to the protection of the foundational American principles of freedom of religion - and freedom from religion.
Learn more about Progress Texas and how you can support their ongoing work at progresstexas.org
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Our website, we-dissent.org, has more information as well as episode transcripts.
The War on Nonprofits
2026/06/17
Rebecca, Liz, and Alison speak with Rachel Levinson-Waldman from the Brennan Center for Justice about the Trump administration and current Congress weaponizing the government to attack nonprofits and punish speech and viewpoints they don't like. They explore how executive orders and anti-terrorism statutes are being abused to investigate, defund, and intimidate civil society, and how this strategy is essential to the broader project to transform America from a democracy to an autocracy.
Show Notes
Rachel Levinson-Waldman's Bio
Brennan Center for Justice
Trump Administration Documents
Presidential Memo - "Countering Domestic Terrorism and Organized Political Violence"
Bondi Memo - "Implementing National Security Presidential Memorandum-7: Countering Domestic Terrorism"
"2026 Counterterrorism Strategy"
2027 FBI Budget Request to Congress
Executive Order Designating Antifa as a Domestic Terrorist Organization
Department of Justice - "The Biden Administration's Weaponization of the Freedom of Access to Clinic Entrances Act"
Executive Order - "Guaranteeing Fair Banking for All Americans"
Articles and Reactions
NPR - "'We're not afraid': George Soros' foundation on being Trump's next target" (Open Society Foundation)
Lawfare - "The Politically Motivated Indictment of Southern Poverty Law Center"
Civil Society Rights & Resiliency Resources - Charity & Security Network
"What NIJ Research Tells Us About Domestic Terrorism"
Cato at Liberty Blog - "Politically Motivated Violence Is Rare in the United States" (right-wing extremists account for 11% of politically motivated killings, while left-wing extremists account for 2%)
Brennan Center for Justice - "Trump's Orders Targeting Anti-Fascism Aim to Criminalize Opposition"
ACLU - "How NSPM-7 Seeks to Use "Domestic Terrorism" to Target Nonprofits and Activists"
Just Security - "How Designating Antifa as a Foreign Terrorist Organization Could Threaten Civil Liberties"
Lawfare - "The Bondi Memo's Quiet Rewriting of Domestic Terrorism Rules"
Lawfare - "You Can't Designate 'Antifa.' Banks and Platforms Will Act Like You Did Anyway"
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Our website, we-dissent.org, has more information as well as episode transcripts.
State Legislative Roundup with Rachael Stryer
2026/05/19
Alison, Liz, and Rebecca welcome AU Public Policy Counsel Rachael Stryer to review what came out of the state legislative sessions this year. They survey the laws state legislatures passed to force religion into public schools, use religion to discriminate against LGBTQ people, and divert public money to private religious schools.
Show Notes
Rachael Stryer's AU Bio
Organized Power in Numbers
American Atheists - State of the Secular States
Legislative trackers
AU
ACLU
Mapping Attacks on LGBTQ Rights in U.S. State Legislatures
Congressional Scorecards
See your state ACLU for regional legislative tracking
Action Alerts
FFRF AF
AU
National Women's Law Center
ACLU
Bills and Cases Discussed
Ten Commandments Displays in Schools
Alabama (SB 99)
Tennessee (HB 47)
Ongoing Lawsuits
FFRF
AU
Prayer in Schools
Alabama (HB 511): Requiring public schools to allow student-led prayer and requiring the pledge of allegiance
Idaho (HB 623): Requiring a 60 second moment of silence for prayer or meditation at the beginning of the school day
Chaplains
Alabama (HB 8): Permitting school boards to adopt policies allowing volunteer school chaplains into schools
Release Time
Info on LifeWise
AU: "Release time is a problem for church-state separation"
FFRF Action Fund: "State Issue: LifeWise Academy/Release Time"
Classroom Instruction and Curriculum Policies
Tennessee (SB 1828): Requires public school history curriculums to teach about the positive impact of religion on American history and the influence of Judeo-Christian values
Idaho (S 1336) and Utah (HB 312 and SB 268): Requiring curricula to teach the influence of Christianity in American history
Vouchers
Espinoza v. Montana Department of Revenue (2020)
Carson v. Makin (2022)
Columbus City School District v. State of Ohio
Wisconsin PTA et al vs. Wisconsin State Assembly et al
Healthcare Refusal
Utah (SB 174) and Iowa (HF 571): Gives healthcare providers and religious healthcare institutions the right to refuse to provide services that violate religious beliefs.
Foster Care and Adoption
Indiana (HB 1389): Allows government-funded child placement agencies to use religion as a justification for refusing to work with families, youth in care, and prospective parents. And to allow adoptive or foster parents the right to "raise a child in a manner consistent with [their] sincerely held religious beliefs."
Elizabeth Rutan-Ram et al. v. Tennessee Department of Children's Services et al (AU)
Anti-Sharia law
Tennessee (HB 2279), Florida (HB 1471), Iowa (HF 2695), and Idaho (H 602)
Arkansas (SR 21)
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Our website, we-dissent.org, has more information as well as episode transcripts.
Pronatalism with Emily Martin
2026/04/16
Alison, Liz, and Rebecca take on the far-right pronatalism movement with guest Emily Martin, NWLC's Chief Program Officer. They explain the movement's history of racism, sexism, and eugenics, the alarming support it has in the Trump administration, and what truly pro-family policy would look like.
Background
Emily Martin's Bio
National Women's Law Center
Sign up for alerts here
National Women's Law Center - "Baby Bonuses and Motherhood Medals: Why We Shouldn't Trust the Pronatalist Movement"
Heritage Foundation - Saving America by Saving the Family: A Foundation for the Next 250 Years
New York Times - "The Heritage Foundation Wants to Send American Women Back Half a Century"
Ms. Magazine - "Trump's Pronatalist Agenda Weaponizes Motherhood to Push Women Out of Public Life"
CNN Politics - "Hegseth invited pastor who calls for Christian theocracy to lead Pentagon prayer service"
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Our website, we-dissent.org, has more information as well as episode transcripts.
The Supreme Court Tackles Trans Sports Bans with Shiwali Patel
2026/03/25
We Dissent welcomes guest Shiwali Patel, Senior Director of Education Justice at National Women's Law Center, who walks us through the anti-trans sports ban cases currently before the Supreme Court, Little v. Hecox and West Virginia v. B.P.J. We discuss the history of Title IX and why the attack on trans sports participation is really an attack on the basis of this critical nondiscrimination law.
Background
Shiwali Patel's bio National Women's Law Center
Previous trans rights episodes
Episode 16 – Sex on the Brain: the Assault on Trans People with Sasha Buchert
Episode 38 – Skrmetti v. U.S.
NWLC Amicus
SCOTUSblog - "The justices and gender pronouns"
SCOTUSblog - "Supreme Court appears likely to uphold transgender athlete bans"
Cases
Little v. Hecox
SCOTUSblog
Oral argument transcript
West Virginia v. B.P.J.
SCOTUSblog
Oral argument transcript
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Our website, we-dissent.org, has more information as well as episode transcripts.
Our Federal Courts with Alison Gill
2026/02/20
We Dissent welcomes back Alison Gill as co-host! Alison shares what she's been up to since leaving the pod, and then walks Rebecca and Liz through the state of our federal bench. We discuss federal judicial nominations from the recent presidential administrations and what it has meant or means for religious liberty and other civil rights.
Show Notes
National Women's Law Center
Harvard Journal of Law & Public Policy: Per Curiam - "Not Enough Respect For The Judiciary—or Too Much? Arrogance And The Myth Of Judicial Supremacy"
New York Times - "Trump's 'Superstar' Appellate Judges Have Voted 133 to 12 in His Favor"
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Our website, we-dissent.org, has more information as well as episode transcripts.
Message to Listeners
2026/01/16
There's no new episode this month, instead we have a special message for our listeners. We're excited to announce that Alison Gill is returning to the podcast starting in February! Additionally, the National Women's Law Center is going to be a co-sponsor of We Dissent moving forward. We have a lot of great episodes planned for 2026 and can't wait to share them with you.
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Our website, we-dissent.org, has more information as well as episode transcripts.
Religion Behind Bars Reprise: Landor v. Louisiana
2025/12/17
Rebecca and Liz explain Landor v. Louisiana, the Supreme Court case that will decide whether a Rastafarian inmate who'd grown his dreadlocks for 20 years can sue the Louisiana prison officials who handcuffed him to a chair, held him down, and forcibly shaved him in violation of the law. They dive deep on the statute at issue in the case, the legal history leading up to this litigation, and what the oral arguments signaled. They also highlight some Supreme Court docket news!
Submit Listener Questions Here!
Case updates
Cambridge Christian School v. Florida High School Athletic Association
Davis v. Ermold
Background
SCOTUSblog case page
Previous episodes about RLUIPA
Episode 4 – Religious Liberty and the Death Penalty
Episode 11 – Religion Behind Bars
SCOTUSblog - "Court appears skeptical of prison inmate's religious liberty claim"
A Guide To Federal Religious Land Use Protections
AU's amicus brief
Cert petition
Transcript of oral arguments
Cases Discussed
Tanzin v. Tanvir
Employment Division v. Smith
City of Boerne v. Flores
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Our website, we-dissent.org, has more information as well as episode transcripts.
"Conversion Therapy" at the Supreme Court
2025/11/19
Liz and Rebecca cover Chiles v. Salazar, the case before the Supreme Court seeking to strike down a Colorado law banning mental health professionals from practicing "conversion therapy" on children. They explain the details of the case and discuss the hypocrisy of a ruling striking down the ban. They also recount the October 7th oral arguments, where the majority of justices signaled support for a ruling that will nullify state laws in half the country protecting LGBTQ youth from these discredited harmful practices.
Background
Oral argument transcript
Tenth Circuit Opinion
SCOTUSblog page
Amicus briefs
Americans United
FFRF
SCOTUSblog - "Does Colorado's "conversion therapy" ban violate free speech?"
The Trevor Project - "Chiles v. Salazar: What you need to know about the U.S. Supreme Court case on conversion therapy"
The American Psychiatric Association's position on conversion therapy
The American Psychological Association's position on conversion therapy
The American Medical Association's position on conversion therapy
"LGBTQ Policy Spotlight: From Conversion "Therapy" Laws Protecting LGBTQ Youth"
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Our website, we-dissent.org, has more information as well as episode transcripts.
Stone Unturned: Courts have never allowed Ten Commandments in public schools
2025/10/16
Rebecca and Liz break down the strong history of courts rejecting government attempts to display Ten Commandments in public schools. They explain the seminal 1980 case Stone v. Graham, the SCOTUS cases since then reinforcing that precedent, and the growing number of states passing blatantly unconstitutional laws that force public schools to display Ten Commandments.
Background
"Louisiana May Require the Ten Commandments Be Posted in Classrooms"
Cases
Stone v. Graham (1980)
Van Orden v. Perry (2005)
McCreary County v. ACLU (2005)
Louisiana: Roake v. Brumley (2024)
Complaint
District Court Opinion
Joint Statement
5th Circuit Opinion
FFRF Case Page
AU Case Page
Arkansas: Stinson v. Fayetteville School District No. 1 (2025)
Complaint
District Court Opinion
Joint Letter
FFRF Case Page
AU Case Page
Texas: Rabbi Nathan v. Alamo Heights Independent School District (2025)
Complaint
Preliminary Injunction
Joint Letter
FFRF Case Page
AU Case Page
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Our website, we-dissent.org, has more information as well as episode transcripts.
100 years of monkey business: the Scopes trial centennial
2025/09/17
Rebecca and Liz commemorate the 100th anniversary of the Scopes Trial. They discuss the infamous "monkey" trial, and the history of teaching evolution in public schools. An "everything old is new again" episode, showing the impact of the Scopes trial throughout the last century and digging into the latest attempts by Christian Nationalists to inject religious teachings into science curriculum.
Background
Original text of the Butler Act
2025 Scope Trial Centennial speakers' presentations - FFRF
The Legacy of the Scopes Monkey Trial 100 years later - Americans United
The Scopes "Monkey" Trial with Brenda Wineapple - Freethought Matters
Cases
State of Tennessee v. John T. Scopes (1925)
Edwards v. Aguillard (1987)
Kitzmiller v. Dover Area School District (2004)
Epperson v. Arkansas (1968)
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Our website, we-dissent.org, has more information as well as episode transcripts.
Podcast reviews
Read We Dissent podcast reviews
4.9 out of 5
99 reviews
★★★★★
Skleban 2025/11/30
Informational & Entertaining
Love the explanations and the discussions. Great add to my legal pod roundup. Thank you.
★★★★★
3gaw 2024/09/07
Both Legal and Approachble
They explain what they’re doing. It’s wonderful. The legal stuff is all there but they don’t turn it into gibberish that only they understand. On top ...
★★★★★
MrsMarci 2023/11/17
Not too nerdy
3 women lawyers bring the secular look at the law that the constitution demands without drowning the audience in case law trivia. Worth the time!
★★★★★
Sells family homeschool 2023/09/21
The best legal podcast
I found this when I was listening to the Freedom from Religion podcast and I am so happy I found this podcast. I appreciate the work that they do and ...
★★★★★
Skeptic Matthew 2023/04/18
I do not dissent
Is there a perfect legal podcast? If there is, this is it. Direct and focused on state/church entanglement which in this day and age just may be the s...
★★☆☆☆
Cwmdyli Ed 2023/01/26
Best clear and careful explanations of Supreme Court cases
The very best source of clear and careful descriptions of the Supreme Court cases they cover.
One of the few that focuses on the current 6-3 packed S...
★★★☆☆
granmerly22 2022/09/18
Pretty good
Important information but the speakers insert the word “like” into nearly every sentence. It is so annoying it detracts from the significance of the t...
★★★★★
Xaoclover 2022/05/25
Incredibly insightful
This is an incredible podcast, hosted by a wonderful group of women! Though the information is terrifying, this is the information we need to be aware...
★★★★★
Chriz2469 2022/05/21
This is the podcast we need right now.
With the current rise of dangerous Christian national extremism supported by a judiciary packed with right wing religious ideologues, this is the podc...