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Another Reporter’s Notebook, about a feature article that more than any other exemplifies why you can never pre-decide what the story is. I still recall shaking when I got to my car after sitting with Nancy’s former husband in his office at USC and physically shaking as I told my editor, “The story is not what we thought it was. It’s who she took with her.” It appeared on the cover of the LA Weekly, and is reprinted below. A new Reporter’s Notebook every Sunday when you become a paid subscriber Also discussed: * The five-year-old on acid in Joan Didion’s Slouching Towards Bethlehem The HMS Bounty, the bar where I sat with Alex (maybe this exact booth), Nancy’s son You can find fantastic stories everywhere. In Los Angeles, they verily run into your arms. Buy the book! Bad Blood: Secrets and Lies in a Silicon Valley Startup, by John Carreyrou “The Elizabeth Holmes Documentary, Through the Eyes of the Reporter Who Exposed Her,” by John Carreyrou (New York Times WHO SHE TOOK WITH HER: The Husband, the Son, the Boyfriend… a Drunk’s Tale, by Nancy Rommelmann On December 12, 1948, Nancy Schorn was born into privilege. Her father was the chief financial officer of the plumbing conglomerate American Standard, and her mother was active in charitable work. The family lived on a five-acre estate on Long Island’s North Shore, in Cold Spring Harbor, a town not unlike Daisy Buchanan‘s West Egg: Nancy was a member of three yacht and country clubs, and, like Daisy, was considered by one admirer to have been “the most beautiful person I had ever seen . . . she had almost an aristocratic air of confidence and elegance.” She attended the college-preparatory Westover School for Girls, and later enrolled at Boston University, where she met and married an MIT engineering student who would go on to an esteemed career at USC. She lived in Europe. She had a son. Upon her parents’ deaths, she inherited a great deal of money. On December 29, 2000, Nancy was sleeping adjacent to a parking lot near the Santa Monica Pier, where she was run over by a first-time driver who claimed she swerved to miss a cat. Nancy suffered a compound fracture of the right leg, a crushed skull and the loss of an eye. Nancy was sleeping by the beach because she‘s homeless, and she’s homeless because she‘s a chronic alcoholic. For the better part of 20 years, she’s been one of Santa Monica‘s indigent population, one of the thousands of panhandlers you might pass by and think, What a dirtbag or, if you are feeling charitable, There but for the grace of God. While even the ungenerous among us understand that people wind up on the streets for myriad reasons, we do tend to distinguish them, perhaps in a bid at self-protection, as organically different from ourselves. The filth, the aimlessness, allow us to objectify them as “other” at best, disposable at worst. To most passersby, Nancy is little more than a fleeting sidewalk annoyance — toss her a quarter and forget about her. But what about those who don’t have the luxury of forgetting? Those who live with an intimate awareness of her past as well as her present? Those who tried to save her from herself, and who were abandoned by her? The pain Nancy has visited upon herself is exceeded, perhaps, by what she‘s visited upon others. “You don’t have a few bucks on you, do you?” Accepting a cigarette instead, Nancy tears off the filter while taking the summer sun in the concrete courtyard of Harbor Convalescent Hospital. At 100 pounds, she‘s a tiny thing, swimming in the only clothes she has, a pair of cut-off sweatpants and a baggy T-shirt with flowers on it. Seven months after the accident, she’s still in a wheelchair, her leg immobilized by an external fixator, the bones held in place by steel pins driven directly into her shin and thigh. Through her lank gray hair, one can see a road map of stitches. “My scalp is like the Rocky Mountains.” She cackles lightly, her voice scorched with nicotine. “My cheekbones are supposed to be parallel. I don‘t really have much of a mouth left. I lost teeth.” Nancy’s remaining eye, an intense ice-blue, is engaged and animated. When asked about the damaged eye, she lifts the black patch. It‘s a puckered hole. “It’s dead, there‘s nothing they can do about it,” she says dismissively, waving her hand. “I don’t need very much. The treatment for [the leg] is dumping hydrogen peroxide on it, that‘s it. I get a minimal amount of painkillers here, Tylenol 3s. Not enough.” Nancy draws deeply on her cigarette, and her eye takes on the mischievous cast of a little girl who knows she’s asking for something naughty. “What I want is Percocet.” What she really wants is a drink, preferably E&J brandy. “I drank for about two weeks here in the hospital. It was easy. Just ask someone, ‘Are you going to the store?’” She cackles again. “But I got caught, and threatened with being outed, outsky, out, out, hmm. So I quit. Now I got about 54 days.” A spooky ululation comes from a corner room. Nancy shakes her head. “That woman right there will make that sound if anyone touches her. She doesn‘t speak; she’s fed through a tube. She‘s been here six years.” Nancy glances at the only other people in the courtyard, two young men in wheelchairs, one with all his toes amputated, the other attached to a portable dialysis machine and a Walkman, which he listens to with his eyes closed. “The company here is bad. I have two roommates. One is Alzheimer’s, and the other is a Mongoloid. It‘s impossible to communicate with them. It’s hell.” While a place to sleep and regular meals in a fairly nice facility paid for by Medi-Cal might seem utopian compared to the streets, to Nancy, hell is being cooped up. “I got used to living outside,” she says with a shrug. “They say if you don‘t get your butt off the street in a year, it starts getting to you. It’s true. I decided to do it for one more year, then one more year. You don‘t want to leave; you don’t want to be under any restrictions; you‘re used to not having any bills to pay, and no real responsibilities. The weather of course you learn to deal with, and food and all that isn’t a real problem unless you make it one. Clothing‘s easy. All that basic survival stuff is no big deal. The real problem is money, always money.” Something Nancy, before the age of 30, never had to trouble herself with. She married Michael Safonov in 1968, and was supported by him throughout his tenure in the Navy, during which time Nancy, and later their newborn son, traveled with him, until one day in 1975. “We moved back to Jacksonville, where Mike was stationed, and it’s weird, because that‘s when I started drinking,” says Nancy, picking tobacco off her tongue and, since she has few remaining teeth, giving the lopsided grin of a stroke victim. “We had a garage apartment behind a house that was occupied by four or five different guys, and they were always drinking and partying and stuff, and here I am with a baby, and I said, ’Damn, it looks like they‘re having a lot of fun.’ So I hired a baby sitter one day and bought a six-pack of Budweiser. Took me all day to drink it. And when I woke up the next morning I didn‘t have a hangover or nothing, but I decided beer wasn’t very ladylike, so I bought a bottle of white wine, and drank half of it that night. Still no hangover. By the end of the month I was drinking a lot. Before then, I had drunk nothing to speak of. I was the kind of person who would hold a drink. Mike said, ‘I didn’t know you liked to drink so much.‘ He didn’t say anything more than that. Then I got into hard liquor.” Mike accepted a teaching post at USC, and the family moved to Los Angeles. “We rented a house in Mar Vista, and then we bought it. We stayed there two or three years. I had gotten alcohol poisoning a couple of times. My husband put me in the hospital twice, and when the second hospitalization didn‘t take, he told me, ’I don‘t feel I have any other choice but to file for formal separation,’ which in California is nine months, ‘and if you haven’t cleaned up your act and stuff, then we‘ll be divorced.’ And that‘s what happened. Did I try to fight the divorce? Sort of, but I never stopped drinking, so it was hopeless. My mom had passed away, so I had enough money and assets and stuff like that, so it didn’t faze me. I figured, I‘ve got money, I’ve got a VW bus, I‘ve got a boat, I’ve got everything that I need — ‘I can drink in peace’ kind of thinking.” She grins the lopsided grin. “That‘s as debauched as I was.” She got an apartment in Santa Monica, and began several years of steady drinking. “I’m not what you call a social drinker. I didn‘t really have any friends. It would never occur to me to go to a bar and spend money on drink after drink after drink, when I could go buy a bottle and go somewhere and that’s that. I drank at home. And . . . it just gave me a relief. Relief. I was a lot more relaxed, and happier. The hangovers were bad, though, very bad. I made the money last two years, and then I started to sell things. First the jewelry, then the silverware, the boat, the VW bus. It was scary, seeing all this stuff go, but I just couldn‘t deal with it. Then I started stealing. Stealing booze. I got evicted. I picked up a really bad boyfriend — he was on PCP. We wound up living in his car. I was really badly beaten [by him], and one morning I decided, ’I‘m not coming back to this car,’ so I just kept walking away. Walking, walking, walking, through the alleys; some guy gave me five bucks, he was out gardening. Then the cops picked me up. I had no shoes, no ID, no money, and I‘m drinking. And I was sitting on the storm drain across from the house I used to own in Mar Vista.” The police picked her up and sent her to Camarillo

This is a free preview of a paid episode. To hear more, visit www.smokeempodcast.com Nancy and Sarah talk about Kimberly Guilfoyle, media lightning rod and former ambassador to Greece (not Grease, because that’s Sarah’s gig). The journo babes talk plastic surgery, what is beauty, and Mar-A-Lago face. Then it's on to talking about AI, the future of writing—and civilization itself. Happy Thursday! Also discussed: * All 👏🏼 Amazon 👏🏼 Reviews 👏🏼 Matter 👏🏼 (except when they’re from bots, and maybe even then) * Mike Darnell was the Bill Schulz of reality TV * On re-hotting yourself * Peptides: Pixie dust for the body * Fake Emilia Hart, you get us! Also, WHO ARE YOU?? * Nancy is not on the vibrator train * Hamish McKenzie, come on our pod. Let’s save media! * When your best friend in high school is the hot girl * Sarah’s book is the Plugra butter of the book world * “That person’s too hot to be a publicist” Plus, Sarah does her best Mr. Peanut impression, the 204th story in The Atlantic about AI scams, (EXCLUSIVE!) archival audio of Sarah telling Michael Moynihan her vibrator won’t turn off — and much more! Don’t be a bot. Become a paid subscriber.

This is a free preview of a paid episode. To hear more, visit www.smokeempodcast.com Nancy and Sarah are going to talk about L-O-V-E, and Nancy thinks she knows what it is, but Sarah (who just wrote a book on this topic) is pretty certain she can’t define what it is, nor can anyone, not in its many-tentacled forms. First the ladies talk French protests, a hunger for rage and then a documentary about designer John Galliano, who soared in the fashion heavens like few others and crashed down just as hard. A blackout-induced tirade on the (what else?) the Jews in 2011 turned him into a proto cancellation story. Sarah has thoughts! For that matter, so does Nancy. And who doesn’t love Kate Moss after this doc? Also discussed: * John Cusack, the right kind of sexy in Say Anything * “Pneumonic plague” not on our bingo cards * Nancy has a visceral reaction to wool spun from Wallace’s fur * Katie Herzog! Fifth Column! Meghan Daum! Laura McKowen! Sarah’s on fire. * “Nobody can sing that song because it’s meant to be thumped.” * The “small sweetness”: A debate! * Sarah on fashion: “You don’t get to play this game, Shorty.” * Nancy is the Kate Moss of this podcast? Plus, our best-ever Halloween costumes, Bridget Phetasy is Joe Rogan-ing, the first (only?) Meow-atarian candidate, and much more! John Galliano just launched a line with Zara. Girls like pretty dresses! Smoke ‘Em sends the biggest birthday wishes to the wondrous one, a.k.a., Nancy’s daughter. Tavie, we love you madly xx

This is a free preview of a paid episode. To hear more, visit www.smokeempodcast.com Nancy and Sarah talk about the Cornell case. Maybe you’ve heard about it? They talk about drinking and consent, college bacchanals, cultural rot, the weird dehumanization of technology and porn, and how we can point fingers in so many directions, but ultimately, your life is your responsibility. Questions on the table: What should the legal definition of rape be? How involved should colleges become in the private sex lives of their students? Are those students children — or adults? This is complicated business. Camille Paglia comes in and knocks some shit over on the table, because well, Aunt Camille. We love her, but she goes a little harder than Nancy and Sarah. We’re softer touches on this one. Also discussed: * The ‘00s went off the f*****g rails * Sarah’s IQ drops plummets when she’s sprung for a guy … “Where is Mexico?” * Not gonna put my tongue on THAT third rail today … * “Dear colleague” → Title IX → kangaroo courts * Is Nancy a vampire? (Answer: Yes) * Sarah reads a letter from a former frat boy * “What about Skims!??” * Wallace’s first voluntary appearance on a video pod * Use lotion, start slow * Rick Muthaf*cking Rubin can narrate us into the apocalypse Plus, shout-outs to Yale and Bret Easton Ellis, the cigarette alto of Sarah’s audio book, the joy of Alamo Drafthouse, and much more!

This is a free preview of a paid episode. To hear more, visit www.smokeempodcast.com Nancy and Sarah talk about Sarah’s new legal name—“Pre-orders Matter”—and her memoir coming out September 29. But first! Nikole Hannah-Jones wrote an essay. Maybe you heard about it? The journo broads talk parenting, ideology, public confession and what it means to sacrifice for your child. * Y/N: Is mentioning you think Weinstein might have gotten a raw deal a good idea during book launch? * Katie Herzog is a smart cookie * The hard landing of overestimating your powers as a reporter * Stop asking what kind of skin care Nancy uses! * Who put you in charge? Plus, a photo of Sarah’s three loves, revealed! After the break. But first! But second! They really do…

“You get at most one cliche per book,” the writer Jonathan Franzen said in a recent interview. Cue: Literary Twitter exploding. Snob! Hypocrite! But as Nancy and Sarah point out: Franzen is also awesome! And the journo babes love The Corrections and Freedom, etc. A discussion ensues about writerly rules (made to be broken) and the role of snobbery in the arts. The journo broads also debate Emmy fashion, including Emmy host Mariska Hargitay’s teen daughter in what Nancy sees as a cute dress and Sarah sees as … not that. Nancy shuts down a misery scammer taking advantage of the memory of our late friend Andrew Wimsatt. Please only refer to Nancy, from now on, as “Nancy Rommelmann, online avenger.” Sarah gives Nancy a pop quiz about her upcoming memoir (9/29/26), The Only Thing There Is to Want, which Nancy hasn’t read yet. Nancy gives Sarah a hard time for not having finished Nancy’s 2018 book To the Bridge, despite the fact that Sarah has had roughly eight years to do so. This is a FREE episode, so send it to TWO friends, who’ll send it to two friends … Also discussed: * The return of the goon cave * Do not f___ with Nancy’s people * Widow’s Bay FTW!!! * Oscar Isaac, Sarah’s boyfriend who is not Robert De Niro * Sex worker or sorority girl? * Metaphor debate! * Ellroy or Leonard: Who said it? * Paglia or Steinem: Who made the cut for Sarah’s book? * Sarah goes to a hen party, does not apologize for the stereotype Plus, the shadow side of second-wave feminism, Joan Didion gets it right, did Infinite Jest predict our AI doomscape? And much more! ALSO! Sarah is teaching a special 90-minute memoir-writing workshop on Sat., Sept. 26, 1pm ET / 10am PT, for the under-$100 cost of 3 pre-ordered books. Just email your receipt(s) to [email protected], and you’ll get a Zoom link. More info on the memoir class here. For the cost of a freaking matcha latte, you could get this 90-min intimate-funny-smart chitchat in your ear holes every time Episode Notes: Matt and others remember Andrew Wimsatt, a gentle giant of a man “Anatomy of a Random, Unhinged Assault in Portland, City of Professed Benevolence,” by Nancy Rommelmann (RealClearInvestigations) Big congratulations to Nancy’s longtime friend Larry Karaszewski, whose producer-daughter Carver—whom Nancy last saw when she was eight-years-old—was part of the Widow’s Bay Emmy sweep. Soak it up, Dad! Nancy asked her daughter to weigh in on DressGate (picture below): “I was more attracted to Mariska, who is beautiful and sexy and amazing. Her daughter’s dress, I’m kind of neutral on. Plus they’re wearing matching dresses, which is sweet. We should all be so lucky. Just tell Hepola she’s a prude.” Sarah responds: “I am rubber, you are glue. Whatever you say bounces off me and sticks to you.” — The Management Pre-order The Only Thing There Is to Want, because you have less than two weeks to listen to these plugs, so let’s celebrate. What’s in your hot box? Nancy: Murder in Paris ‘68: A True Story of Death and Glamour, by Edward Chisholm Sarah: The White Album, by Joan Didion This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.smokeempodcast.com/subscribe

This is a free preview of a paid episode. To hear more, visit www.smokeempodcast.com Nancy and Sarah discuss a Netflix documentary called The Unabomber in His Own Words, which came out years ago but has taken on new depth in our current mess. Ted Kaczynski’s random violence and mythologizing finds echoes in the Luigi Mangione case and the bizarre heroizing of Lindsay Clancy, who killed her three children. The journo babes talk revolutionaries vs. terrorists, how humans are still evolving, why American can never find the middle ground, and whether AI is an extinction-level event. So: A lighthearted episode! Still there’s no end of laughs, or Sarah’s nicotine gum pouches. Also discussed: * Supergraphics! * Fetterman at the RNC * I mean, Trump could’ve just thrown Trump steaks at the audience * Nancy is was a Netflix freeloader * The Unabomber-Antifa connection * Going no-phone is the new straight edge * Big love (always) for Bryan Burroughs * The New York Times calls Assata Shakur a “revolutionary” in obit, SMH * Sarah talks about wearing a “baklava,” because she’s a Dallas girl * Nancy devotes her entire future to writing the definitive book on MovieFone * The Babe-vegetarian connection * “We can just f*ck off climate change then” * Sarah jinxes herself in a contest by declaring if she wins, she’ll wear a white suit Plus, are geniuses sadists (paging Jon Ronson), we love Pam Colloff (again and always), another installment of “This Week in Kyle Chandler” (finally!) and much more! The world is rough. Being a paid subscriber is easy DON’T MISS: Sarah is teaching a writing workshop. You can join! Details here.

This is a free preview of a paid episode. To hear more, visit www.smokeempodcast.com Nancy explains the tragic case of Lindsay Clancy, a mother who strangled her three kids, to Sarah, who has only been barely paying attention. Nancy has written several stories about mothers who kill their children, including the nonfiction book, To the Bridge, a True Story of Motherhood and Murder. She and Sarah delve into the strong reactions people have to the case, the dangers of postpartum depression and the perils of over-medication, why being too invested in Clancy’s clemency might be a selfish pursuit, and how the criminal justice system might distinguish between the reason for a crime — and the responsibility for it. Also discussed: * Nancy likes a chunky guy * Sarah has “the biggest memoir of the fall”?? * “Sly little kitten …” * Steinem: The mixed bargain of being the face of a movement * Betty Friedan was a feisty scrapper * Gloria and her aviators * “We gotta get rid of that lavender menace!” * You can live your child at a firehouse? * Lithium is a hell of a drug * Married to the moon: We dig it! Plus, were the Scientologists right about psychiatric drugs? Tarantino’s late-career genius, and no one asked the Smoke ‘Em girls to sing an early Rolling Stones jam but welp, they did anyway … and much more

This is a free preview of a paid episode. To hear more, visit www.smokeempodcast.com Nancy and Sarah welcome Ethan “crackerjack mouth” Strauss back to Smoke ‘Em for round three, this time inspired by his recent piece about a fake 49ers player who scammed scores of women out of more than a million dollars. Dark? Yes. Also hilarious, in terms of perpetrator Daejon Love’s come ons, e.g., telling women his family owned part of the Gucci store “on Saks Fifth Avenue.” They also talk Ethan’s recent “get that nose to the grindstone, kids” piece about making money in sports media, how to help your aging parents not get scammed, and whether anyone on the panel cares what people think of them. (Spoiler: 1.5 yes/1.5 no.) Also discussed: * Katie Herzog retools her addition to help others * “Unnecessary cleavage” * Ethan as Chuck Klosterman of the week * Daejon Love is nowhere near as hot as Napoleon * “I was a white girl on Tinder” * “Necessity is the motherf**ker of invention.” * Some love for The Gift of Fear * The iPhone as elder abuse * Cary Grant, anyone? Anyone? Plus, football as an old-fashioned striptease, baseball as a good sport to do your taxes to, why Gen Alpha likes golf best, and much more! Oh hello, Sarah’s upcoming book is AN OPRAH PICK! Buy it now xx Memoirist Hepola returns after her acclaimed recovery memoir, Blackout, with a wickedly lovable account of three lost loves: a married man, a younger man, and a New Orleans cop she once believed was the man of her dreams. The title arrives when she phones the married guy for advice about dealing with his 29-year-old successor. “I’m scared I only want what I can’t have,” she tells the ex. “Oh baby,” he replies, “It’s the only thing there is to want.” This line feels to Hepola like a skeleton key to her existence, unlocking the surprising amount of pleasure (not to mention the very good stories) one can find on the path of an apparently hopeless quest. Hepola’s self-deprecating candor and perfectly paced storytelling make this book anything but the boohoo-fest you might imagine. Possibly the perfect gift for a friend going through a breakup. About that unnecessary cleavage…

This is a free preview of a paid episode. To hear more, visit www.smokeempodcast.com For her birthday today, Sarah had one request: Please, Nancy, will you PLEASE watch the 1978 super-musical that launched a million imitations, the much-cherished film that Sarah calls “Star Wars for girls” and one of her all-time favorites? As the poet says: Grease is the word. So, how’d that go? But first, the gals talk about the unrivaled beautiful soul of Dolly Parton, whose death at 80 arrived yesterday. The tributes poured in (Eminem?), and there can never be enough, but the passing feels culturally momentous. Is this the unofficial end of the America century — or the American dream? Also discussed: * “WTF did Jolene look like?!” * “Swagoo” * The Osmonds weren’t slutty, as far as we know * Newsflash: the feminists didn’t like a woman * “Bite the weenie, Rizzo.” / “With relish.” * Sarah punts her mother to voicemail * The awesomeness of telling men they are handsome * “Smell my Calvins”? * The wonder of John Travolta dancing. * Sarah casts a Heterodox Grease: Moynihan as Kenicke, Rosenfield as Marty, Rommelmann as Frenchy. (Sarah as Sandy, obvs.) * BUT WHO PLAYS DANNY? One hint: Three men — a sweetheart and genius of a podcaster, an Italian stallion, and a brainiac born to hand jive, babeeee Plus, Nancy counteracts Grease with another ‘80s classic, what it’s like growing up in the eye of the (imaginary) camera, Dolly’s letter to Eminem, and more! Do you love Dolly? Are you a human being? Become a paid subscriber. Pre-order Sarah’s new book. Even Oprah loves it (or, someone adjacent to Oprah) Oprah’s Daily Picks: The Best Books of Fall 2026

Good morning. Many times in the past few years, including the dark times of 2020, I have thought how easy it is to turn your face to the sun, if you remember it is there and if you choose to. I watched the sunrise just before I recorded this for you. My mother had died two days earlier, there is always a lot to do in the wake of someone’s death, and it was the first time I was alone and thinking of her, and also how much she would have liked the hot tub I was in at that moment and which we bought the year before, how she for sure would have been getting in and out of it and insisting on doing so naked and not caring who saw her. Mom, she had a thing for being naked, to wit: Mom [around 1998]: Nancy, I am going to a nudist camp, why don’t you come with me? Me: Oh my god mom, no… Mom: It will be fun! You can write about it. I declined, with prejudice. Mom of course went. She never flagged in her commitment to walking around without her clothes on. Anyone following along here knows my mom has been leaving us for several years, what I have come to think of as the long linger. At least a half-dozen times I drove away from the property thinking, that is the last time I will see her… But it never was, she was the unsinkable Kathy Hayes until this past Monday. As my friend Deb later said, “She found her way home.” I am taking a lot of comfort from that. As you will hear in the audio, I was given a sign the day before… This one’s a freebie. Subscribe for weekly Pie Talks, Smoking Diaries, and all other Smoke ‘Em episodes and niceties I started seeing hawks as messengers just after Tim’s dad died. We were with him when he passed, in a hospital in Houston, which I wrote about in a “Modern Love” essay. I would be running in, say, Griffith Park, thinking about something difficult, and there a hawk would be, circling above me. Since Tim’s death in 2019, he’s taken over the messengering. At least that’s what I think. Anyway, this hawk was going at it all day last Sunday. There are a gazillion birds upstate but a hawk’s cry is very distinct. On Monday afternoon, I was just coming back from a visit with Jon Ronson—whose latest book, The Castle: Adventures in the World of Unraveling Me, drops next week so go get that—when I pulled into the driveway and saw the hawk sitting there. It was a red-tailed hawk, in no hurry to move. It eventually did, keening as it flew north, then came back in the early evening, while I was sitting on the front steps soon after learning about my mom’s death. Cooking for me is comfort and a solace. I don’t think it was that way for Mom, she was too hyper, a get-’er-done cook as opposed to a lingerer, read all about it, and her. I gave you all the recipe for her red sauce on Pie Talk #4, in March 2023. Many changes since, including the featured image of the Melania painting now hanging in the studio where The Fifth Column guys record, and the Chinatown apartment being no more, or no more for me, though it has passed on to someone in the extended chosen family, which makes us all happy, it’s a rad pad with very, very good juju. For now, I leave you with Mom’s Red Sauce. Please do make it, her gift to you. Let me know how it turns out xx “Your Mom’s Red Sauce” I’m calling it this because that’s how people always ask me for it. You are making a lot of sauce here, enough for several meals and several quarts for the freezer. This is also enough for one honkin’ big lasagna, and about that: When making lasagna, go for full-fat ricotta and mozzarella. How you make lasagna, you say? Like this: In a very large baking pan, layer sauce, al dente cooked lasagna noodles, egg-size globs of ricotta, slices of mozzarella, repeat and repeat. The finished product will weigh about 8 pounds. Bake it at 350, loosely covered with foil, for about an hour, then remove foil and bake another 30 minutes, until top layer of cheese is all melty and browning. This will feed at least 10 - 12 people, who as the years go by will ask you please to make it again x * Olive oil, 4 - 6 T. * 2 large yellow onions, chopped * 2 cloves garlic, chopped * 2 pounds hamburger meat, 80/20% fat * 5 cans (29-ounce) Hunt’s Tomato Sauce. Yes, I know some of you want to use an Italian brand, or something organic. You do you but that’s not the sauce, and if I had a nickel for every person I’ve given this recipe to who later said,”It didn’t taste like yours...” and then admitted they did not, as specifically instructed, use the Hunt’s, I’d have about 65-cents. Try it this way first and then go fancify! * 2 T. dried oregano, 1 T. dried basil if you have some, 2 bay leaves In a large heavy-bottom sauce pot (not “sauce pan” as I repeatedly said in the audio), heat the olive oil over medium-heat. Add the onion and cook until translucent and with some brown bits, stirring occasionally. Add garlic and cook about a minute, stirring. Try not to burn the garlic (... she writes, often doing so herself.) Break up hamburger with your fingers and drop into the cooking onions. Don’t break it up too much; you want some hunks the size of whole walnuts, and don’t stir too much. Cook until the meat loses its pink and there are some brown bits. Pour in the sauce, crunch in the oregano and basil between your fingers, and add bay leaves. Stir the meat up from the bottom and bring the sauce to a simmer. Once it simmers, turn the flame as low as it will go, cover the pot but leave a tiny crack for steam to escape, and simmer, at least two hours, stirring from the bottom every 20 minutes or so, to avoid meat sticking to the bottom and scorching. Depending on your burner, a flame-tamer may be in order. The sauce originally called for three hours of simmering and by all means, go for it, but two hours is also fine. Remove from heat, eat some right away on hot pasta, let the rest cool and freeze or otherwise save for another day. Things people have added to good effect: Italian sausages for last hour of cooking (my mom), a splash of red wine and red pepper flakes (my former husband). Things people have put this sauce on other than pasta: bread in a bowl (everyone), salad (my late stepfather). This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.smokeempodcast.com/subscribe

Nancy and Sarah talk about the death of Hayden Panatierre at the age of 36, which just so happens to be the age that Marilyn Monroe died. Sarah wants to know why child actors get an exception against laws preventing kids from working. Nancy spills the secrets on how they get babies to cry in the commercials — and it’s sad! The discuss addiction, postpartum depression, domestic abuse, and more. The ladies also discuss Nancy’s mom, who passed Monday (yesterday as of this writing). Kathy, we miss you already, and we thank you. Now, about that leather jumpsuit … Free episode: Invite your friends! Also discussed: * Nancy in the Morning™️ * Italians are Sarah’s favorite ethnic stereotype * Dax / Dak, whatever * Heroes = pre-Mad Men TV programming * Can a mother come back from losing custody of her children? * The mysteries of Marilyn Monroe’s death * Blackout drinking is “suicide for a night” * Everybody loves Xanax Plus, that time Nancy slept like a gunshot victim, our favorite Miranda Lambert jams, and much more. You know Smoke ‘Em has a YouTube channel, right? Where we post things like… Don’t be a dope. Become a paid subscriber. Has Sarah mentioned she has a book coming out Sept 29, and that pre-orders matter? Well, as Alanis says, you oughta know … PRE-ORDER THAT BAD BOY. Episode Notes: “Hayden Panetierre is Dead: Star of Nashville and Heroes Dies at 36,” New York Times obituary This is Me: A Reckoning, by Hayden Panittiere To the Bridge: A True Story of Motherhood and Murder, by Nancy Rommelmann What’s in your hot box? Sarah: Nancy: This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.smokeempodcast.com/subscribe

Nancy and Sarah discuss the Hulu/FX series The Shards, the new Bret Easton Ellis and Ryan Murphy jam. The 1981 LA vibes are right in Sarah’s sweet spot (Bonne Bell! Xanadu! The Go-Gos!). For Nancy, not so much, maybe because she lived it. They talk ennui and heroin overdoses and young people trying to prove nothing matters. Then it’s onto the recent shocking Perez Hilton livestream. Celebrity is a mask that eats into the face, in this case (all cases?), tragically. Also discussed: * Nightie Day! * “My mom’s poochie.” * Studio 54 days * Rich Angeleno kids = meh * Smoke ‘Em: Banned in Belarus! * Sarah doesn’t read Nancy’s existing books but asks her to write others * Wes Bentley’s eyebrows * Rich kid names (Homer, Igby, Kaia) * “Touch it!” * Who IS Perez Hilton? * Attention monsters of the Internet * Women with long and thick silver hair, swoon Plus, This Week in Kyle Chandler, a dystopic LA short story from Nancy (NB: which was just too gd long to post; it’s “X-Girl” in the collection), and much more! Attention please: Send us your letters! Subscribe to the YouTube. Buy Sarah’s book! Sign up for Sarah’s Substack LOVE ANYWAY. Do something. This one’s a freebie - go ahead and subscribe! Nancy tells the story of a destroyed Jamie Slovak showing up in her yard at 6am on a June morning in 1988. His brother Hillel, guitarist for the Red Hot Chili Peppers, had just overdosed, and Jamie, who spent a lot of time at Nancy’s West Hollywood house those days, needed comfort. Nancy has not seen Jamie in decades and was glad to learn just now that he is involved in this doc, which came out earlier this year. Episode Notes: “‘The Shards’ Soundtrack Is Incredible – Here’s Every Song From The First Two Episodes” (Elle/Yahoo) “Ryan Murphy and Bret Easton Ellis Team Up for FX’s Predictably Excess-Soaked Tale of Prep-School Sex, Drugs and Murder” (Hollywood Reporter) The Bad Mother: A Novel, by Nancy Rommelmann “Perez Hilton ‘Will Require Surgery’ After Live Stream Incident, Family Demands Media ‘Cease Photographing Perez’s Children’” (Variety) Official Family Statement on PerezHilton.com This Week in Kyle Chandler: What’s in your hot box? Nancy: Nike Training Club app Sarah: This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.smokeempodcast.com/subscribe

There’s this movie everyone is talking about, have you heard of it? The Odyssey, directed by Christopher Nolan, he of the sweeping historical sagas. Sarah’s theory is that it’s the male Barbie, with something for everyone. Whether the ultimate hero’s journey is still relevant in the age of TikTok might/might not be answered by the movie taking in $727+ million in its first 12 days. Nancy and Sarah debate whether the three-hour film is too long (no/yes), whether it needed the Eliot Page character (yes/no), and did Nolan drop the ball on the Sirens (YES!!!!). Sarah delivers some light and loving pushback on the recent episode about Fauci. Then, what do people say behind your back? Sarah and Nancy ponder. Also, we introduce a new segment, "This Week in Kyle Chandler” because … Kyle Chandler. Also discussed: * Grease is the word. * Kaboodles are still a thing * Mary Katharine Ham is a star * “It’s gross how cute you are.” * “Fauci was rubbing it …” * Cat Damon!! * You’re welcome back any time, Scott Greenfield * Sarah refuses to pronounce Ross Douthat’s name properly until he comes on the pod * No sex for Circe * Samantha Morton is not Emily Watson … * “Sarah with the t**s, Nancy with the eyes” Plus, why Nancy and Sarah are taking a road trip to a ranch near Austin, Nancy on that weird Stockard Channing movie, a hot box where every relationship is transactional, and much more! Paid subscribers get a picture of a cat that looks like Matt Damon, what more can we say? “I wonder if I can get people to click over and subscribe to the Smoke ‘Em YouTube?” Episode Notes: Cast your female podcasters (L to R): Frenchie, Rizzo, Marty Totally appropriate after-school movie in 1973 … “It Is Banal, Bland, Thin and Didactic. We Can’t Stop Talking About It,” Ross Douthat on The Odyssey (New York Times) ICYMI the indomitable Mary Katharine Ham (full epi here): “Fauci and the Fifth,” by Scott Greenfield (Simple Justice blog) “What's the bad thing people say about you?,” by Esther (The Spike Substack) Never sleep on Helen Lewis … “First Look Inside Men’s Journal’s Summer Entertainment Special With Kyle Chandler” (Men’s Journal) What’s in your hot box? Nancy: There’s a Bear in the House! by Walter Kirn (audio) Regarding the bear that showed up at Nancy’s Mom’s… Sarah: This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.smokeempodcast.com/subscribe

This is a free preview of a paid episode. To hear more, visit www.smokeempodcast.com There are a lot of things Dr. Anthony Fauci might have said during his Senate hearing yesterday, about what he thought and did and did not do and might have done differently during the COVID-19 pandemic. Instead, the former head of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases (NIAID) and lead member of the White House COVID-19 Response Team invoked his Fifth Amendment right to remain silent more than 90 times. Is this shocking? Predictable? Irresponsible? Dangerous? Yes and yes and yes and yes. With Sarah busy recording the audiobook for her upcoming memoir, The Only Thing There Is To Want, Nancy asked perennial straight-shooter Mary Katharine Ham to come talk about Fauci, his “cartoonish self-absorption,” the political marketplace that has us tilt toward hero worship, and the one official who maybe kinda sorta admitted she was wrong about lockdowns. Also discussed: * Must be nice to have never heard of the Tate brothers * The “personality disorder economy” that gives us a Dr. Fauci (and a Candace Owens) * Did Mary Katharine and Nancy adhere to the government-mandated COVID protocols? No, no they did not * John Fetterman’s statement seemed pretty close to the mark for many of us * What sort of hubris has you writing your diary on a government computer? * A small nod of respect for Deborah Birx * Women watch true crime on TV. Men watch… * Mary Katharine and Nancy come up with a new hustle Plus, what is lost when you catastrophize, love and props for Liz Wolfe, Mary Katharine re-reads a book she hates, and much more! Did you watch Young Washington in anticipation of talking about it on First Sunday Zoom is this Sunday, August 2, 8pm ET/5pm PT? There’s still time! Paid subscribers get link day-of.