Advertise on podcast: Don't Kill the Messenger with Movie Strategist Kevin Goetz

Send Kevin a Text Message Gerry Rich has led marketing at Columbia Pictures, Miramax, MGM/United Artists, Paramount Pictures, and Amazon MGM Studios. He joins host Kevin Goetz to talk about his new memoir, Chasing Hollywood: A Marketing Chief’s Lessons on Breaking Through. Ad Age has named him one of the Top 100 Marketers in America. His campaigns range from independent breakouts like The Crying Game and Leaving Las Vegas to Mean Girls, Iron Man, and the James Bondfranchise. Rich shares hard-won lessons on finding a campaign’s hook, creating urgency, and choosing who to work with. Selling a Movie in a Four-Week Window (02:44): Rich likens movie marketing to a weekend retail sale, with most media now packed close to opening weekend. He explains why live sports and high-impact digital buys like TikTok still drive reach, and why more of the budget now goes to content creators, the new journalists. Coming Out, Guy Pearce, and Writing the Book (08:33): After the pandemic and Amazon’s acquisition of MGM, Rich felt it was the right moment to look back on a career spanning more than a thousand films. He explains why he wove his personal story into his book, from meeting lifelong friend Guy Pearce on a film shoot in Fiji to coming out, which he says made him more authentic in his work. Rebuilding MGM and Reinventing Bond (24:25): Frank Mancuso brought Rich in to help rebuild a bankrupt MGM, where GoldenEye had to revive a franchise audiences saw as “my father’s Bond.” The campaign introduced Pierce Brosnan as a new Bond for a new generation, with help from a Nintendo 64 game. Rapid Fire: The Crying Game, The Birdcage, Mean Girls, and Chicago (27:57): Goetz runs through some of Rich’s most memorable campaigns. Rich explains how the Miramax team turned The Crying Game’s twist into its hook and persuaded critics not to spoil it. He recalls repositioning Mean Girls around the fear of the first day at a new school, and bringing audiences who didn’t usually see musicals to Chicago. Mentors and Moguls (42:32): Rich shares mentor Hal Gaba’s rule to avoid people who would never visit you in the hospital. He also reflects on Harvey Weinstein’s complicated legacy, crediting his impact on independent film while condemning the abuse and hostile environment he created. Going Against the Algorithm (47:26): Rich agrees audience research has a role once a script exists but warns that greenlighting by data models produces sameness. He argues that a shortage of films in certain genres is an opportunity, pointing to originals like Ted, Tropic Thunder, and Sinners. Host: Kevin Goetz Guest: Gerry Rich Producer: Kari Campano Writers: Kevin Goetz, Darlene Hayman, Nick Nunez, and Kari Campano Audio Engineer: Gary Forbes (DG Entertainment) For more information about Gerry Rich: Chasing Hollywood (Amazon): https://a.co/d/0f9b0g42 Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/gerryrich/ For more information about Kevin Goetz: - Website: www.KevinGoetz360.com - Audienceology Book: https://www.simonandschuster.com/books/Audience-ology/Kevin-Goetz/9781982186678 - How to Score in Hollywood: https://www.amazon.com/How-Score-Hollywood-Secrets-Business/dp/198218986X/ - Facebook, X, Instagram, TikTok, YouTube, Substack: @KevinGoetz360 - LinkedIn @Kevin Goetz - Screen Engine/ASI Website: www.ScreenEngineASI.com

Send Kevin a Text Message For the 100th episode of Don't Kill the Messenger, host Kevin Goetz welcomes back his very first guest, Oscar-winning producer Graham King. King's films, including The Departed, The Aviator, Hugo, Argo, Blood Diamond, The Town, and Bohemian Rhapsody, have collected 61 Academy Award nominations, and he won Best Picture for The Departed. His latest, Michael, took seven years to reach the screen and has since surpassed Bohemian Rhapsody as the highest-grossing biopic of all time. King traces the film back to a chance meeting at a gas station in 1982 and explains why the real win is the audience showing up. A Mother’s Blessing (03:33): King recalls showing Katherine Jackson and Michael's sister Rebbie the first hair and makeup test of Jaafar Jackson. Michael’s mother’s emotional response ranks among the top five moments of his career. The Gas Station and the Softball Game (05:30): While pumping gas in Sherman Oaks, a young King hummed "Let's Get Serious" to Jermaine Jackson and was invited to the family's softball game. There, Michael introduced himself by tapping King on the shoulder, saying "You're it," and running off. Learning from Scorsese (11:55): King prefers to let the film do the talking. He credits his years with Martin Scorsese for teaching him how to excite an audience, work with actors, run a set, and layer music into the story. Previews, Critics, and the Real Win (20:21): Scorsese taught King the value of fresh eyes from outside the business. He admits he has ignored warnings and paid for it, and he argues that reviewers critiqued Michael Jackson rather than the movie. King tells filmmakers that the green light isn't the win; the audience showing up is. Casting and Testing Michael (29:52): King shares how his daughter suggested Colman Domingo would make a great Joe Jackson. He tells the story about the lunch where he told Jaafar Jackson he was auditioning to play his uncle, the three years of preparation that followed, and the boundless energy of first-time actor Juliano Krue Valdi. Unable to preview Michael publicly, he leaned on Goetz's and editor John Ottman’s reactions. The Departed at 20 and Dancing Audiences (49:47): King calls The Departed the hardest and most memorable film he has produced, and says his goal was to be the producer when Scorsese finally won his Oscar. Seeing audiences around the world dance through Michael's end credits, he says, is higher than any award. Host: Kevin Goetz Guest: Graham King Producer: Kari Campano Writers: Kevin Goetz, Darlene Hayman, Nick Nunez, and Kari Campano Audio Engineer: Gary Forbes (DG Entertainment) For more information about Graham King: Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graham_King IMDB: https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0454752/ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/popular/graham-king-producer/?hl=en For more information about Kevin Goetz: - Website: www.KevinGoetz360.com - Audienceology Book: https://www.simonandschuster.com/books/Audience-ology/Kevin-Goetz/9781982186678 - How to Score in Hollywood: https://www.amazon.com/How-Score-Hollywood-Secrets-Business/dp/198218986X/ - Facebook, X, Instagram, TikTok, YouTube, Substack: @KevinGoetz360 - LinkedIn @Kevin Goetz - Screen Engine/ASI Website: www.ScreenEngineASI.com

Send Kevin a Text Message Bob Greenblatt joins host Kevin Goetz for a conversation that follows the television executive through four separate turnarounds, from a struggling young Fox Network to the top of Showtime, NBC, and WarnerMedia Entertainment. Greenblatt helped develop Beverly Hills, 90210, The X-Files, and Party of Five at Fox, produced Six Feet Under, turned Showtime into a creative rival to HBO with Weeds and Dexter, ran NBC during the network's return to number one with The Voice and This Is Us, and later helped launch HBO Max. He's also a five-time Tony-winning Broadway producer. Learning the Business from Peter Chernin and Scott Rudin (06:28): After an MBA and film school, Greenblatt credits his mentors Scott Rudin and Peter Chernin for the real education in how to give notes and run a company without losing the creative instinct. Launching Fox with Beverly Hills, 90210 (15:36): Greenblatt walks through developing 90210 from Barry Diller's original idea, hiring an unproven Darren Star to write it, and watching the 90-minute pilot test through the roof. Its breakout success helped define the young-adult demo strategy that built the network. American Beauty, and the Birth of Six Feet Under (24:13): Greenblatt recounts partnering with David Janollari to launch their production company, signing sitcom writer Alan Ball without realizing he'd also written a script called American Beauty, and sending that script to HBO right as the film became an Oscar-winning phenomenon. HBO ordered Six Feet Under straight off the page. Turning Around Showtime and NBC (34:55): Greenblatt explains his pattern of leaving a job once it stops changing, his preference for buying over developing, and how he rebuilt Showtime around original series like Dexter and Weeds. He also details how The Voice gave NBC the lead-ins it needed to climb back to number one. Executive Mentors and the One That Got Away (39:53): Asked to name the greatest network executive in television history, Greenblatt points to Brandon Tartikoff and Grant Tinker's "first be best, then be first" philosophy. He also revisits Profit, his short-lived anti-hero drama that paved the way for Dexter, and his famous pass on Buffy the Vampire Slayer. The Green Room  and The Rockford Files (48:54): Greenblatt previews current projects at his production company The Green Room. He closes by discussing his Broadway work on Ragtime, and his memoir, The Rockford Files. Host: Kevin Goetz Guest: Bob Greenblatt Producer: Kari Campano Writers: Kevin Goetz, Darlene Hayman, Nick Nunez, and Kari Campano Audio Engineer: Gary Forbes (DG Entertainment) For more information about Bob Greenblatt: Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Greenblatt IMDB: https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0338612/ Playbill: https://playbill.com/person/robert-greenblatt-vault-0000116172 For more information about Kevin Goetz: - Website: www.KevinGoetz360.com - Audienceology Book: https://www.simonandschuster.com/books/Audience-ology/Kevin-Goetz/9781982186678 - How to Score in Hollywood: https://www.amazon.com/How-Score-Hollywood-Secrets-Business/dp/198218986X/ - Facebook, X, Instagram, TikTok, YouTube, Substack: @KevinGoetz360 - LinkedIn @Kevin Goetz - Screen Engine/ASI Website: www.ScreenEngineASI.com

Send Kevin a Text Message Billy Ray, the Oscar-nominated screenwriter behind Captain Phillips, The Hunger Games, Shattered Glass, Richard Jewell, State of Play, Breach, and Flight Plan, joins host Kevin Goetz for a candid conversation about the throughline of integrity in his work and the mechanics of great storytelling. Ray lays out his theory of what every protagonist and villain requires using Jaws, Rocky, The Wizard of Oz, and Ordinary People as case studies, and shares stories from Donald Sutherland, Jennifer Jones, and the making of The Hunger Games. Integrity and the Stories Billy Ray Tells (01:41): Ray identifies integrity as the recurring theme in his work, and explains why the best screenwriting is an intellectual exercise designed to create an emotional response rather than an impressive one. The Untold Story of Ukraine's Abducted Children (10:20): Kevin and Billy discuss Ash and Crayons, a documentary about children abducted from Ukraine into Russia during the war. He calls it the great untold story of the conflict. Knowing Your Audience: Messaging and Persuasion (13:35): A discussion about political communication becomes a broader conversation about audiences. Ray argues that effective messaging begins by understanding where people are emotionally and moving them from there, a principle Goetz connects directly to movie marketing and persuasive advertising. What Makes a Great Screenplay? (22:38): Ray recalls being handed Ordinary People by his literary-agent father as the standard to aspire to, and lays out his fundamental rule of character: a protagonist needs an external problem to solve and an internal problem only the story can fix. Great Characters, Great Villains, and the Cathartic Contract (26:29): Using Ordinary People, Rocky, One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest, and Schindler's List, Ray and Goetz examine character construction. Ray argues a great antagonist needs a defensible point of view. Outworking the Competition and Shattered Glass (42:01): Ray discusses early influences including Rod Serling, and his realization that he couldn't control talent or the industry, only how hard he worked. He names Shattered Glass, his directing debut, as the film he's proudest of. The Hunger Games and the Art of Reverse Engineering (46:30): Ray remembers reading Suzanne Collins' novel overnight and recognizing its potential. He shares changes that strengthened the adaptation, and the security measures involved in writing the franchise's newest installment. Failure, Audience Testing, and the Oscar Chase (51:15): Ray speaks candidly about directing Secret in Their Eyes, losing an investor's money, and his Oscar nomination for Captain Phillips, including why chasing that recognition can be dangerous for a career. Host: Kevin Goetz Guest: Billy Ray Producer: Kari Campano Writers: Kevin Goetz, Darlene Hayman, Nick Nunez, and Kari Campano Audio Engineer: Gary Forbes (DG Entertainment) For more information about Billy Ray: Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Billy_Ray_(screenwriter) IMDB: https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0712753/ Burn the Water (Book): https://a.co/d/0f0raSWF For more information about Kevin Goetz: - Website: www.KevinGoetz360.com - Audienceology Book: https://www.simonandschuster.com/books/Audience-ology/Kevin-Goetz/9781982186678 - How to Score in Hollywood: https://www.amazon.com/How-Score-Hollywood-Secrets-Business/dp/198218986X/ - Facebook, X, Instagram, TikTok, YouTube, Substack: @KevinGoetz360 - LinkedIn @Kevin Goetz - Screen Engine/ASI Website: www.ScreenEngineASI.com

Send Kevin a Text Message Roy Lee, the producer behind some of Hollywood’s most successful horror films, franchises, and international adaptations, joins host Kevin Goetz to explore the unconventional path that took him from law school to building one of the most prolific producing careers in Hollywood. Lee has produced or executive produced The Ring, The Grudge, The Departed, It, Doctor Sleep, The Lego Movie, How to Train Your Dragon, Barbarian, Weapons, and A Minecraft Movie, among dozens of others. Through his company Vertigo Entertainment, he's built a reputation for spotting opportunity where others see risk, whether that means Asian horror remakes, emerging filmmakers, or video game IP.  From Law School to Script Tracker (02:56): Lee describes going from law school to taking a job at a production company after moving to Los Angeles, where he was a development executive and script tracker responsible for knowing virtually every script and manuscript circulating around town. Twenty-Five Asian Films in Twenty-Five Months (10:20): Lee explains how he acquired the rights to twenty-five Asian titles, including The Ring, The Grudge, and The Departed. Eighteen of the twenty-five eventually made it to the screen. Reading by Instinct: What Makes Roy Lee Say Yes (15:54): Lee lays out his process, reading scripts between 4 and 6 a.m., abandoning any that don't make him care about the characters after the first act, and passing on stories he can predict in full. It, Reinvented (17:52): Lee recounts discovering that Warner Bros. quietly owned the rights to Stephen King's It, and pitching his producing partner Dan Lin on isolating the kids' story as its own film. The Barbarian Gamble (22:57): Every studio passed on Barbarian, but Lee was certain from the first act that it worked. It became a sleeper hit that also launched his ongoing partnership with writer-director Zach Cregger onWeapons and the upcoming Gladys. The Departed: A Home Run from the Start (29:11): Lee remembers watching Infernal Affairs, the Hong Kong film that would become The Departed, and knowing immediately it was a sure thing that went on to win the Best Picture Oscar. Common Sense, No Regrets, and Advice for the Next Generation (35:44): Asked about his superpower, Lee points to good judgment and the ability to capitalize on opportunity. He tells aspiring filmmakers that talent, not just passion, should determine who tries to break in. Where AI Fits In (40:06): Lee predicts AI will cut visual effects budgets, streamline storyboarding and animatics, and reshape script reading, even as he doubts audiences will see fully AI-generated lead performances anytime soon. Host: Kevin Goetz Guest: Roy Lee Producer: Kari Campano Writers: Kevin Goetz, Darlene Hayman, Nick Nunez, and Kari Campano Audio Engineer: Gary Forbes (DG Entertainment) For more information about Roy Lee: Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roy_Lee IMDB: https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0498175/ X: https://x.com/royleeroy25?lang=en For more information about Kevin Goetz: - Website: www.KevinGoetz360.com - Audienceology Book: https://www.simonandschuster.com/books/Audience-ology/Kevin-Goetz/9781982186678 - How to Score in Hollywood: https://www.amazon.com/How-Score-Hollywood-Secrets-Business/dp/198218986X/ - Facebook, X, Instagram, TikTok, YouTube, Substack: @KevinGoetz360 - LinkedIn @Kevin Goetz - Screen Engine/ASI Website: www.ScreenEngineASI.com

Send Kevin a Text Message Jim Orr is President of Domestic Theatrical Distribution at Universal Pictures. He began his career at Paramount and joined Universal in 2016 after leading distribution at Focus Features and MGM. Brandon Purdie is Executive Vice President and Head of Theatrical Distribution at Angel Studios, the audience-funded studio behind Sound of Freedom, where he helped build a community-driven model that puts greenlight decisions in the hands of its 2.4 million members. Host Kevin Goetz brings the two together for a wide-ranging conversation on how films find audiences in an era of theaters, streaming, VOD, and direct fan engagement. From Del Monte to Distribution (08:41): Orr recounts talking his way into a sales job at Del Monte out of college, then cold-calling studio distribution heads until Paramount hired him on the spot. The Roadshow Era and the First Wide Break (11:36): Orr traces distribution's earliest days, when prints traveled by car with regional reps, through to the thousand-plus theater breaks standard by the time of Star Trek. Content Is Still King (23:02): Both guests agree the movie itself remains the deciding factor in box office success, with Purdie noting a quiet week usually just means there isn't a film people want to see yet. Building Angel Studios from a Membership, Not a Subscription (30:02): Purdie explains Angel's founding principle: no executive can greenlight a film without approval from the Angel Guild, whose members vote on projects and get free tickets to every release. Pay It Forward and the Sound of Freedom Phenomenon (34:06): Purdie details how Angel's "Pay It Forward" ticketing model generated more than $20 million in donated tickets, helping turn Sound of Freedom into a summer 2023 box office surprise. The Green Book Playbook (44:27): Orr points to Green Book as his proudest Universal moment, explaining how a deliberately limited release avoided split grosses and let the film build week over week toward a Best Picture win. What Keeps Them Up at Night, and the Next Five Years (49:26): Purdie names human apathy as Angel's biggest threat. Orr predicts modest theater consolidation and growth in premium formats, while Purdie sees Angel continuing to scale its guild and slate. Host: Kevin Goetz Guests: Jim Orr and Brandon Purdie Producer: Kari Campano Writers: Kevin Goetz, Darlene Hayman, and Kari Campano Audio Engineer: Gary Forbes (DG Entertainment) For more information about Jim Orr and Brandon Purdie: Jim Orr (Universal Pictures): https://www.universalpictures.com/leadership-team/?name=jim-orr Jim Orr (LinkedIn): https://www.linkedin.com/in/jim-orr-50ab7b8/ For more information about Kevin Goetz: - Website: www.KevinGoetz360.com - Audienceology Book: https://www.simonandschuster.com/books/Audience-ology/Kevin-Goetz/9781982186678 - How to Score in Hollywood: https://www.amazon.com/How-Score-Hollywood-Secrets-Business/dp/198218986X/ - Facebook, X, Instagram, TikTok, YouTube, Substack: @KevinGoetz360 - LinkedIn @Kevin Goetz - Screen Engine/ASI Website: www.ScreenEngineASI.com

Send Kevin a Text Message Lauren Shuler Donner, one of Hollywood's most influential and adaptable producers, joins host Kevin Goetz for a wide-ranging career retrospective. Over nearly five decades, Shuler Donner has produced roughly 40 films that have grossed more than $5 billion worldwide — including Mr. Mom, St. Elmo's Fire, Pretty in Pink, Dave, Free Willy, and the X-Men franchise she helped build years before Marvel became Marvel. She talks with Goetz about breaking into a male-dominated industry, her 38-year love story and creative partnership with director Richard Donner, her philanthropic work with the Motion Picture & Television Fund, and her latest chapter producing the Broadway musical adaptation of The Lost Boys. Breaking Into a Male-Dominated Industry (06:10): Shuler Donner recalls knocking on doors with no connections, becoming one of only three women among 300 men in NBC's camera department, and working her way into producing. Discovering John Hughes and Making Mr. Mom (12:29): Shuler Donner recalls cold-calling John Hughes, championing his unproduced script Mr. Mom, and casting an unknown Michael Keaton after seeing him in Night Shift. Falling for Dick Donner on the Set of Ladyhawke (16:43): Shuler Donner describes pursuing Richard Donner to direct Ladyhawke, working with him as a producer, and falling in love with him during the Italian shoot. Radio Flyer, Free Willy, and the Power of Testing (24:53): Shuler Donner discusses Radio Flyer's heartbreaking low box office despite strong scores, and how a fan's $10 donation "for the whales" inspired Free Willy's end-credit hotline. The Midwest Gut Check and the Search for Real Villains (28:01): Shuler Donner explains testing projects against whether "a kid from Cleveland" would pay to see them, and demanding villains like Magneto have real, human motivations. Finding Hugh Jackman (30:40): Shuler Donner recounts spotting Hugh Jackman in a self-taped Oklahoma! audition, flying him to LA, and sending him to read for Bryan Singer in Toronto sight unseen. Getting X-Men Made (34:07): After Warner Bros. passed, Shuler Donner pitched X-Men to Fox's Bill Mechanic, who, unbeknownst to her, had sold his own comic collection to pay for college. The Lost Boys on Broadway (37:02): Shuler Donner talks about bringing The Lost Boys, and eventually Dave, to the Broadway stage. Testing Pretty in Pink's Ending (43:53): Shuler Donner explains how test audiences rejected the original ending of Pretty in Pink, leading to a reshoot that paired Molly Ringwald with Andrew McCarthy instead of Jon Cryer. Host: Kevin Goetz Guest: Lauren Shuler Donner Producer: Kari Campano Writers: Kevin Goetz, Darlene Hayman, Nick Nunez, and Kari Campano Audio Engineer: Gary Forbes (DG Entertainment) For more information about Lauren Shuler Donner: IMDb: https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0795682/ Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lauren_Shuler_Donner For more information about Kevin Goetz: - Website: www.KevinGoetz360.com - Audienceology Book: https://www.simonandschuster.com/books/Audience-ology/Kevin-Goetz/9781982186678 - How to Score in Hollywood: https://www.amazon.com/How-Score-Hollywood-Secrets-Business/dp/198218986X/ - Facebook, X, Instagram, TikTok, YouTube, Substack: @KevinGoetz360 - LinkedIn @Kevin Goetz - Screen Engine/ASI Website: www.ScreenEngineASI.com

Send Kevin a Text Message Bob Bookman, one of Hollywood's most respected literary agents, managers, and producers, joins host Kevin Goetz for a masterclass on the art of discovering stories that successfully make the leap from page to screen. Over a remarkable career, Bookman has represented authors and filmmakers including Michael Crichton, John Irving, Thomas Harris, Jonathan Demme, Cameron Crowe, and Tom Stoppard, helping bring to the screen films like Jurassic Park, The Silence of the Lambs, Hannibal, The Cider House Rules, A Beautiful Mind, and Jerry Maguire. In recent years he's brought that same eye for material to producing, including the Best Picture nominee A Complete Unknown. Running the Yale Law School Film Society (06:54): Bookman recalls building an underground film education out of 16mm prints borrowed from historian Bill Everson, bringing legends like Frank Capra, Fritz Lang, and Miloš Forman to campus for free screenings. Landing the Job and Skipping the Mailroom (18:26): Bookman shares how his father connected him with Abe Lastfogel, how a chance introduction from agent Jack Gilardi led to an interview with David Begelman, and how he ultimately landed at IFA, bypassing the mailroom. Becoming "The Book Guy" (23:24): Bookman describes how agency head Marvin Josephson handed him ICM's entire literary publications franchise,launching his decades-long reputation as Hollywood's go-to book agent. What Makes a Book Cinematic (27:09): Bookman breaks down why great novels rarely make great films, and what he actually looks for: three-act structure, character conflict, and a story that takes audiences somewhere new. The Secret to a Great Adaptation (29:15): Using John Irving's Oscar-winning adaptation of his own novel The Cider House Rules as the gold standard, Bookman explains why most authors shouldn't adapt their own books, and why Irving was the exception. The Best Adaptations, and a Hawks-Hemingway Bet (33:00): Bookman names The Silence of the Lambs and A Beautiful Mind among the best adaptations he's seen, then tells the story of how Howard Hawks turned Ernest Hemingway's self-described worst book into To Have and Have Not. Rapid-Fire on the Legends (37:43): Bookman gives quick, candid impressions of the writers and directors he's worked with — Michael Crichton, Jonathan Demme (including his own cameo in The Silence of the Lambs), Cameron Crowe, Tom Stoppard, and Paul Greengrass. Originality, AI, and What's Next (40:24): Bookman argues that algorithms can imitate stories but not replicate the human heart, and discusses his new venture producing low-budget original films. Host: Kevin Goetz Guest: Bob Bookman Producer: Kari Campano Writers: Kevin Goetz, Darlene Hayman, and Kari Campano Audio Engineer: Gary Forbes (DG Entertainment) For more information about Bob Bookman: IMDb: https://www.imdb.com/name/nm1023283/ Website: https://www.bobbookman.com/ For more information about Kevin Goetz: - Website: www.KevinGoetz360.com - Audienceology Book: https://www.simonandschuster.com/books/Audience-ology/Kevin-Goetz/9781982186678 - How to Score in Hollywood: https://www.amazon.com/How-Score-Hollywood-Secrets-Business/dp/198218986X/ - Facebook, X, Instagram, TikTok, YouTube, Substack: @KevinGoetz360 - LinkedIn @Kevin Goetz - Screen Engine/ASI Website: www.ScreenEngineASI.com

Send Kevin a Text Message Sid Ganis, former President of the Motion Picture Group at Paramount Pictures, former Vice Chairman of Columbia Pictures, and four-term President of the Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences, joins host Kevin Goetz for a wide-ranging conversation spanning more than five decades in Hollywood. Ganis traces his path from an office-boy job won through a chance connection, to marketing campaigns for The Empire Strikes Back and Raiders of the Lost Ark, to greenlighting Ghost and Fatal Attraction, and to acquiring the rights to Forrest Gump during his years running Paramount. Brooklyn Roots and Greek Jewish Heritage (03:14): Ganis traces his Romaniote Jewish heritage to Ioannina, Greece, and his grandparents' flight to New York's Lower East Side. Ganis recalls his first solo trip to the movies, seeing Gunga Din for 25 cents at a neighborhood theater. Quitting College and a Lucky Break (08:50): After dropping out of Brooklyn College, Ganis landed his first publicity job thanks to a chance connection from his Uncle Phil. Joining 20th Century Fox (12:57): Ganis describes his early years in publicity, working for Lee Solters and later joining Fox while Cleopatra was in production. Working with Joseph L. Mankiewicz (17:44): Ganis remembers collaborating with the director years later and calls him one of Hollywood's greats. Testing Ghost (28:01): Ganis shares a test-screening story from Ghost that captures how unpredictable audiences can be. Meeting George Lucas and Joining Lucasfilm (31:34): Ganis recalls being introduced to a young George Lucas by Francis Ford Coppola, then later joining Lucasfilm as Empire Strikes Back went into production. Marketing Raiders of the Lost Ark and Meeting Nancy (33:40): While promoting Raiders of the Lost Ark, Ganis met his future wife, Nancy Hult, through a PBS fundraiser project that later won him an Emmy. Columbia Pictures and a Career in Marketing (37:20): Recruited to Columbia by Peter Guber and Jon Peters, Ganis explains why he stayed in marketing rather than move into production. Four Terms as Academy President (42:26): Ganis reflects on his proudest achievement: spearheading the 17-year effort to build the Academy Museum of Motion Pictures. Sid Ganis's career is a reminder that cultivating relationships and a willingness to stay close to the audience can carry someone through every era of a changing industry. In his own words, his story is one of gratitude for the people who opened doors for him, and for a business he never stopped loving. Host: Kevin Goetz Guest: Sid Ganis Producer: Kari Campano Writers: Kevin Goetz, Darlene Hayman, Nick Nunez, and Kari Campano Audio Engineer: Gary Forbes (DG Entertainment) For more information about Sid Ganis: Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sid_Ganis IMDB: https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0304398/ Variety: https://variety.com/exec/sid-ganis/ For more information about Kevin Goetz: - Website: www.KevinGoetz360.com - Audienceology Book: https://www.simonandschuster.com/books/Audience-ology/Kevin-Goetz/9781982186678 - How to Score in Hollywood: https://www.amazon.com/How-Score-Hollywood-Secrets-Business/dp/198218986X/ - Facebook, X, Instagram, TikTok, YouTube, Substack: @KevinGoetz360 - LinkedIn @Kevin Goetz - Screen Engine/ASI Website: www.ScreenEngineASI.com

Send Kevin a Text Message Jeff Annison and Paul Scanlan, Emmy-winning co-founders of the world's first fan-owned entertainment company, Legion M, join host Kevin Goetz for a conversation about disrupting industries, building communities, and betting on the audience. Annison and Scanlan pioneered mobile television at MobiTV and launched the very first equity crowdfunding campaign in U.S. history. The duo have spent two decades proving that the audience is the most powerful force in entertainment. Chicago, Boston, and a Love of Film (01:48): Paul Scanlan traces his passion for filmmaking to the University of Wisconsin-Madison, and to a family trip to Cape Cod where seeing Jaws at age five both terrified and captivated him. Jeff Annison arrived at storytelling through an unlikely path: a mechanical engineering degree at UCLA and a series of screenwriting classes taken on a lark. MobiTV: Putting Television on a Flip Phone (07:18): The two founders recount how a mutual friend with a micro-display technology brought them together in 1999 to build what would become MobiTV, the first company to stream live television to mobile phones. Colossal (25:49): Legion M's first major move was a small P&A investment alongside the distributor Neon on the Anne Hathaway film Colossal. With just 3,500 investors and a million dollars, they organized screenings and community meetups. Community as Marketing Engine (29:54): Annison and Scanlan explain how Legion M's 60,000-plus investors are an organic grassroots marketing force. As Scanlan puts it, communicating with their community costs nothing but can drive millions in box office. Saving Coyote vs. Acme (35:25): One of the most discussed projects in recent Hollywood history found new life through Catchup Entertainment. Legion M is partnering on its release, and the trailer has already surpassed 50 million views. Advice for the New Filmmaker (43:22): Annison urges emerging creators to start with the end in mind, thinking not just about the key scene but about how to communicate a story in a brief window of attention. Scanlan adds a hard truth: the industry is more entrepreneurial than most people expect, and selling to a major studio is rarely the path. On Being on the Side of the Audience (56:44): Annison reflects on what keeps him grounded amid industry uncertainty and the rise of AI: the belief that no matter what technology produces, only human beings pay to watch movies. Building a company on the side of the audience, he argues, is the most defensible position in entertainment. Host: Kevin Goetz Guest: Jeff Annison and Paul Scanlan Producer: Kari Campano Writers: Kevin Goetz, Darlene Hayman, and Kari Campano Audio Engineer: Gary Forbes (DG Entertainment) For more information about Legion M: Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legion_M Website: https://legionm.com/ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/legionmofficial/ For more information about Kevin Goetz: - Website: www.KevinGoetz360.com - Audienceology Book: https://www.simonandschuster.com/books/Audience-ology/Kevin-Goetz/9781982186678 - How to Score in Hollywood: https://www.amazon.com/How-Score-Hollywood-Secrets-Business/dp/198218986X/ - Facebook, X, Instagram, TikTok, YouTube, Substack: @KevinGoetz360 - LinkedIn @Kevin Goetz - Screen Engine/ASI Website: www.ScreenEngineASI.com

Send Kevin a Text Message Mark Canton, producer of 300, Immortals, Men in Black, Air Force One, and My Best Friend's Wedding, former President of Worldwide Production at Warner Bros., and former Chairman of Columbia Pictures and Columbia TriStar Motion Picture Companies, joins host Kevin Goetz for a conversation about a career defined by passion and instinct. From delivering mail on the Warner Bros. lot as a college student to greenlighting some of Hollywood's most beloved films, Canton reflects on the legends he learned from, the risks he took, and why he still smells the circus every time he walks onto a sound stage. Queens, New York, and Family (02:40): Canton traces his love of film to a father who survived being shot down over France in WWII, won an Oscar for a short film on Van Gogh, and went on to do publicity for Hitchcock and Dr. Martin Luther King Jr., and to a mother who was a published poet. The movies, he says, were always destiny. Learning from the Greats on Papillon (15:30): Working for director Franklin Schaffner in Jamaica and living between the houses of Steve McQueen and Dustin Hoffman, Canton learned what it meant to commit to a film. From the Warner Bros. Mail Room to Running the Studio (31:52): Canton traces his rise from UCLA film student to head of Worldwide Production at Warner Bros., sharing stories about the Vacation franchise, Caddyshack, and Lethal Weapon. Taking the Helm at Columbia Pictures (41:28): Recruited by Peter Guber and Jon Peters, Canton became Chairman of Columbia Pictures and later oversaw Columbia TriStar. He reflects on the team he assembled and the record-breaking run that followed, including Jerry Maguire, My Best Friend's Wedding, Bad Boys, and Air Force One. The Art of the Difficult Screening (47:02): Canton recounts two defining test screening moments: a chaotic preview of Scorsese's The Age of Innocence in a New Jersey bowling alley, and a tough audience response to Luc Besson's Léon: The Professional that led to an ultimatum and a reworked film that became a modern classic. The Cable Guy and No Regrets (49:35): Canton defends paying Jim Carrey $17 million and notes what history confirmed: the film launched Ben Stiller's directing career, introduced Jack Black, Owen Wilson, and Judd Apatow. He also recalls his affectionate standoff with Mike Nichols over the ending of Wolf. What Keeps Audiences Coming Back (54:09): Canton argues that what fills theaters today is the same thing that made Purple Rain a phenomenon: the feeling of a live, communal, irreplaceable experience. Host: Kevin Goetz Guest: Mark Canton Producer: Kari Campano Writers: Kevin Goetz, Darlene Hayman, and Kari Campano Audio Engineer: Gary Forbes (DG Entertainment) For more information about Mark Canton: Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Canton IMDB: https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0004799/ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/markcanton/?hl=en For more information about Kevin Goetz: - Website: www.KevinGoetz360.com - Audienceology Book: https://www.simonandschuster.com/books/Audience-ology/Kevin-Goetz/9781982186678 - How to Score in Hollywood: https://www.amazon.com/How-Score-Hollywood-Secrets-Business/dp/198218986X/ - Facebook, X, Instagram, TikTok, YouTube, Substack: @KevinGoetz360 - LinkedIn @Kevin Goetz - Screen Engine/ASI Website: www.ScreenEngineASI.com

Send Kevin a Text Message Mark Johnson, Academy Award-winning producer of Rain Man and Emmy Award-winning executive producer of Breaking Bad, joins host Kevin Goetz for a conversation about a career defined by creative restlessness and uncommon decency. The interview ranges from his transformative partnership with Barry Levinson, which produced Diner, The Natural, and Good Morning Vietnam, to shepherding beloved films like The Notebook, A Little Princess, Donnie Brasco, and Galaxy Quest to championing an unknown writer named Vince Gilligan, Johnson reflects on what it means to serve a director's vision, why he refuses to make the same movie twice, and how audience testing changed the way he thinks about filmmaking. Never the Same Movie Twice (02:14): Johnson explains his resistance to repeating himself across genres. From Galaxy Quest to The Notebook to Breaking Bad, he compares his varied tastes to simply deciding what he wants for breakfast. Meeting Barry Levinson (04:07): Johnson recalls how a chance connection on the Mel Brooks comedy launched one of Hollywood's most fruitful producing partnerships, and what he learned from working alongside a director who always began with character. The Lesson of Good Morning Vietnam (13:12): Johnson describes how audience testing transformed his understanding of filmmaking, including working with the mercurial and brilliant Robin Williams and the pivotal decision to restore a scene with J.T. Walsh. Winning the Oscar for Rain Man (18:29): Johnson reflects on the bittersweet experience of winning Best Picture for a film he credits largely to others, Tom Cruise's underappreciated subtlety in the role, and the one name he forgot to thank from the podium. The Closest Thing to a Perfect Movie (26:08): Johnson singles out Alfonso Cuarón's A Little Princess as the film he holds most dear as a lesson in collaborative craftsmanship. Discovering Vince Gilligan (30:06): In 1988, Johnson read a script by an unknown writer at a Virginia Film Festival jury and knew immediately he was in the presence of singular talent. He details how he championed Gilligan for years before Breaking Bad made the world take notice. The Producer's True Role (38:57): Johnson shares what he hopes listeners take away — that his passion for moviemaking is as alive today as when he started, and that a producer's job is never to claim ownership of a film, but to help a director realize their vision. Host: Kevin Goetz Guest: Mark Johnson Producer: Kari Campano Writers: Kevin Goetz, Darlene Hayman, and Kari Campano Audio Engineer: Gary Forbes (DG Entertainment) For more information about Mark Johnson: Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Johnson_(producer) IMDB: https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0425741/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mark-johnson-3bbb7a9 For more information about Kevin Goetz: - Website: www.KevinGoetz360.com - Audienceology Book: https://www.simonandschuster.com/books/Audience-ology/Kevin-Goetz/9781982186678 - How to Score in Hollywood: https://www.amazon.com/How-Score-Hollywood-Secrets-Business/dp/198218986X/ - Facebook, X, Instagram, TikTok, YouTube, Substack: @KevinGoetz360 - LinkedIn @Kevin Goetz - Screen Engine/ASI Website: www.ScreenEngineASI.com

Send Kevin a Text Message Ann Sarnoff, the first woman to serve as Chair and CEO of a major Hollywood studio and named one of Forbes' World's Most Powerful Women, joins host Kevin Goetz for a conversation about her path from a working-class upbringing in Massachusetts to the top of the entertainment industry. From her early days at Nickelodeon pioneering audience research, to guiding Warner Bros. through one of the most turbulent periods in Hollywood history, to her current role on the boards of major entertainment companies, Sarnoff shares insights on leadership, the power of knowing your audience, and what theaters must do to survive. From Wilbraham to Warner Bros. (03:11): Sarnoff discusses her roots in a blue-collar, Polish-Catholic family in Massachusetts, where she played three varsity sports, instilling competitive instincts and teamwork skills that would define her leadership style. Georgetown, Harvard, and the Road to Media (04:06): With no family connections to the industry and student loans to repay, Sarnoff built her foundation in strategy consulting before finally making her move into media. Nickelodeon and MTV (22:23): As head of strategy and research at Nickelodeon, Sarnoff championed deep audience research, running 200 focus groups a year. That rigor produced breakout hits like Rugrats and Blue's Clues. Audience as North Star (21:21): Sarnoff explains how cable television changed the broadcast model by starting with the customer, building channels around specific passions rather than the broadest possible reach. That philosophy of programming for real audiences became the throughline of her entire career. Breaking the Barrier at Warner Bros. (28:03): Ann shares her experience of becoming the first female CEO of Warner Bros. in 2019 and occupying Jack Warner's office, her picture joining a wall of men dating back to 1923. Sarnoff reflects on the women who came before her, and guiding the iconic studio through a pandemic, a streaming revolution, and a corporate merger. What Comes Next (36:00): Sarnoff breaks down how the combination of streaming, COVID-era demand, and supply-side surplus led to a wave of content the industry is only now working through. She's cautiously optimistic that a leaner, more creatively diverse slate is emerging on the other side. Theaters as Third Spaces (47:04): Drawing on her board role at Regal Cineworld, Sarnoff argues that the future of theatrical exhibition lies in becoming a communal “third space, and that the only real limit is imagination.” Host: Kevin Goetz Guest: Ann Sarnoff Producer: Kari Campano Writers: Kevin Goetz, Darlene Hayman, and Kari Campano Audio Engineer: Gary Forbes (DG Entertainment) For more information about Ann Sarnoff: Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ann_Sarnoff IMDB: https://www.imdb.com/name/nm2115707/ Forbes: https://www.forbes.com/profile/ann-sarnoff/ For more information about Kevin Goetz: - Website: www.KevinGoetz360.com - Audienceology Book: https://www.simonandschuster.com/books/Audience-ology/Kevin-Goetz/9781982186678 - How to Score in Hollywood: https://www.amazon.com/How-Score-Hollywood-Secrets-Business/dp/198218986X/ - Facebook, X, Instagram, TikTok, YouTube, Substack: @KevinGoetz360 - LinkedIn @Kevin Goetz - Screen Engine/ASI Website: www.ScreenEngineASI.com

Send Kevin a Text Message Stuart Ford, Chairman and CEO of AGC Studios and one of the most influential figures in independent cinema, joins host Kevin Goetz for a candid conversation about his journey from Oxford-educated lawyer to Miramax insider to founder of two major independent studios. Ford reflects on the mentors, deals, and instincts that shaped his career, and shares an optimistic vision for the future of independent film in an era of AI, streaming, and global market expansion. From Liverpool to Hollywood (04:17): Ford traces his unlikely path from an upbringing in Liverpool through Oxford, where he studied law and caught the entrepreneurial bug managing bands, to becoming an entertainment attorney during the British cinema boom of the early 90s. Miramax: The Real Film School (09:26): Drawn to the energy of American independent cinema, Ford leveraged his relationship with Miramax's UK office into a move to New York, where he rose to senior executive, co-heading acquisitions and ultimately leading international sales, working with filmmakers including Quentin Tarantino, Anthony Minghella, and James Mangold. The Birth of IM Global (14:55): After leaving Miramax, Ford moved to Los Angeles, borrowed $5 million from a London hedge fund, and launched IM Global in 2007. Paranormal Activity (19:50): Ford recounts acquiring the international rights to Paranormal Activity for $250,000 while the film languished at DreamWorks, then orchestrating a midnight screening that helped persuade Paramount to release it. Kevin Goetz reveals that a reshoot suggested by Steven Spielberg raised test scores by 15 to 20 points and sealed the deal. Launching AGC Studios (29:17): After selling IM Global to a Chinese private equity group, Ford launched AGC Studios in 2018. AGC has since produced nearly 45 films and television shows, including Hitman, Woman of the Hour, The Tinder Swindler, and Those About to Die. The Art of Risk Management (32:57): Ford lays out his core investment philosophy: financial and creative risk are inseparable, and the key is to manage both simultaneously. He offers Ron Howard's Eden as a case study in successful risk management. The Future of Independent Film (43:23): Ford shares an optimistic outlook for the independent sector, citing evolving streaming models, cost reductions, and growth in international markets as reasons for optimism. His message for the next generation is simple: responsible filmmaking doesn't mean compromising on creativity. It just means doing it at the right number. Host: Kevin Goetz Guest: Stuart Ford Producer: Kari Campano Writers: Kevin Goetz, Darlene Hayman, and Kari Campano Audio Engineer: Gary Forbes (DG Entertainment) For more information about Stuart Ford: Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stuart_Ford_(entertainment_executive) IMDB: https://www.imdb.com/name/nm1023349/ AGC Studios: https://www.agcstudios.com/stuart-ford For more information about Kevin Goetz: - Website: www.KevinGoetz360.com - Audienceology Book: https://www.simonandschuster.com/books/Audience-ology/Kevin-Goetz/9781982186678 - How to Score in Hollywood: https://www.amazon.com/How-Score-Hollywood-Secrets-Business/dp/198218986X/ - Facebook, X, Instagram, TikTok, YouTube, Substack: @KevinGoetz360 - LinkedIn @Kevin Goetz - Screen Engine/ASI Website: www.ScreenEngineASI.com

Send Kevin a Text Message Filmmaker Ric Roman Waugh joins host Kevin Goetz for a conversation about his unconventional path from stuntman's son to one of Hollywood's most distinctive action directors. Waugh discusses growing up inside the stunt world, his mentors, and his mission to make commercial action films that also deliver an important message. During the conversation, he touches on his collaborations with Dwayne Johnson, Gerard Butler, and Jason Statham, and on films such as Felon, Snitch, Shot Caller, Angel Has Fallen, Greenland, and Shelter that have defined his brand of character-driven action movies. Working with Tony Scott and Jerry Bruckheimer (02:47): Waugh credits Tony Scott and Jerry Bruckheimer as the mentors who shaped his collaborative instinct…leaders who respected everyone on set, demanded the best, and inspired those around them. Growing Up in Stunts Unlimited (06:13): Waugh's father, Fred Waugh, was a founding member of Stunts Unlimited, the legendary stunt group led by Hal Needham. Ric grew up on sets and, to his father’s disappointment, was more dazzled by the stuntmen than the movie stars. In the Writers' Room (15:20): Before directing, Waugh spent years writing originals for producers like Mark Gordon, Neil Moritz, and Jerry Bruckheimer. He describes how this process taught him how Hollywood actually worked. Finding His Voice and Making Felon (17:54): Inspired by Sidney Lumet's socially-conscious entertainments, he researched the California prison system, became a volunteer parole agent, and made Felon on spec. Snitch and Dwayne Johnson (24:10): Working with Dwayne Johnson on Snitch was a pivotal experience for Waugh. Both men were at a crossroads in their careers, and this film helped clarify Waugh’s mission: to use the commercial action films as a Trojan horse for social commentary. The Audience Is the Real Collaborator (29:56): Waugh reflects on his long working relationship with Kevin Goetz and the role of test screenings in his process. Waugh shares how he uses early and formal audience feedback to identify what isn't being communicated. Marketing in a Distracted World (46:10): Waugh and Goetz discuss the challenge of building audiences for original stories amid the declining effectiveness of traditional marketing. If you enjoyed this episode, please leave us a review and share it with a fellow film lover. We look forward to bringing you more behind-the-scenes stories next time on Don't Kill the Messenger. Host: Kevin Goetz Guest: Ric Roman Waugh Producer: Kari Campano Writers: Kevin Goetz, Darlene Hayman, and Kari Campano Audio Engineer: Gary Forbes (DG Entertainment) For more information about Ric Roman Waugh: Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ric_Roman_Waugh IMDB: https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0006846/ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ric.roman.waugh/ For more information about Kevin Goetz: - Website: www.KevinGoetz360.com - Audienceology Book: https://www.simonandschuster.com/books/Audience-ology/Kevin-Goetz/9781982186678 - How to Score in Hollywood: https://www.amazon.com/How-Score-Hollywood-Secrets-Business/dp/198218986X/ - Facebook, X, Instagram, TikTok, YouTube, Substack: @KevinGoetz360 - LinkedIn @Kevin Goetz - Screen Engine/ASI Website: www.ScreenEngineASI.com