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When Alex Cantu trained new soccer referees, he told them to give every call about thirty seconds, because the game would show them whether they got it right. As a Chief Operating Officer, he leads the same way, watching how each decision moves through finance, HR and the next staff survey. In this episode of Ronderings, Ron sits down with Alex, Chief Operating Officer of the Surge Institute, a national nonprofit that develops and supports leaders of color in education, to talk about staying calm under pressure, making big bets on imperfect information, and why a budget should tell a story. Alex tells his story as three decisions. His parents in San Antonio, who never got to finish college, made his education the priority from preschool on. In high school he took up refereeing because it paid cash, and twenty-three years later he still works games on Sundays. He graduated into the tail end of the Great Recession hoping for a career like the one in the advertising drama Mad Men, and a first job in schools with a nonprofit turned him toward social impact. Ron and Alex dig into why Alex says a COO communicates for a living, and why the role now calls for a generalist who can speak finance, law and culture without being a CPA or a lawyer. Alex sees keeping top talent through uncertainty as the sector's next challenge, and bets on skill building, with AI used to multiply what a lean team can do, not to shrink it. For his Rondering, Alex challenges his fellow COOs and CFOs to keep one spreadsheet for the whole budget and make the rest narrative: the organization's legacy, what has to change this year, and the way forward. The numbers matter, but people follow narratives. Chapters: (01:33) - Meeting at the Education Leaders of Color convening (03:27) - Three decisions, starting with his parents (05:25) - Refereeing soccer for twenty-three years (08:08) - A calm refereeing style and two breaths (11:32) - Missing calls and why the ball never lies (13:49) - From referee to chief operating officer (15:44) - Give every call thirty seconds (16:57) - Big bets on imperfect data (18:32) - Bridgespan and the rise of the generalist (23:23) - PowerPoint night: communicating for a living (26:57) - A first job in the Great Recession (28:53) - Advice to college Alex: be confident sooner (31:34) - Retaining top talent through uncertainty (35:44) - Alex's big bet: skill building and AI (37:20) - Ron's big bet: nonprofit mergers and acquisitions (42:37) - Reading together and celebrating what didn't work (48:03) - Alex's Rondering: one spreadsheet, the rest narrative (52:16) - Culture, the Spurs and the Knicks (55:05) - Investing in yourself as a leader Links:NBA referee Tim Donaghy pleads guilty in a betting scheme, August 2007 - https://www.justice.gov/archive/usao/nye/pr/2007/2007aug15.htmlHow Generalists Help Nonprofits Navigate Complexity, Bridgespan - https://www.bridgespan.org/insights/how-generalists-help-nonprofits-navigate-complexityA new home at Transcend for the Gradient Learning program, February 2026 - https://gradientlearning.org/whole-student-journal/our-next-chapter/The Knicks beat the Spurs in the 2026 NBA Finals - https://www.espn.com/story/_/id/48419498The Two-Organizations Problem, Harvard Business Review - https://hbr.org/2026/06/the-two-organizations-problemAlex Cantu on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/alexcantutx/More about the Surge Institute: https://www.surgeinstitute.org/ Connect with Ron: www.linkedin.com/in/rapatalo Ron Rapatalo's bestselling book Leverage: www.amazon.com/dp/1613431473 Interested in writing or publishing? Visit: www.leveragepublishinggroup.com Start your own podcast that matters: www.podcastsmatter.com Check out other impact-driven podcasts: www.podcaststhatmatter.org

At ten or eleven, Chastity Lord read about a college student who was about to drop out, until she opened her mailbox and found her tuition inside, left by someone she never identified. Chastity decided then that one day she wanted to be that someone for somebody else. In this episode of Ronderings, Ron sits down with Chastity, president and CEO of Jeremiah Program, which works with single mothers and their children two generations at a time, to talk about self talk, healing, and what history still has to teach today’s leaders. Chastity grew up the middle of three girls in a low-income home, where the library was her babysitter and her mother had the girls write book reports. The mailbox story came from Carol Burnett’s autobiography, and it still shapes how Chastity thinks about the angels in our lives: sometimes the money, sometimes the tough conversation, sometimes the introduction. Ron and Chastity dig into self talk as a leadership practice. Being in conversation with your own greatness, she says, means being honest about when you dip below your baseline, and healing is evergreen: a cut closes, but it still leaves a scar. She turns to Harriet Tubman, whose hardest step may have been telling someone else her idea, and to the unnamed people who walked through heat and cold during the bus boycott. She also explains why the math does not math for single mothers earning minimum wage. Every mom at Jeremiah Program, across nine cities, is in college or headed there within six months, and the organization has published a report with the Urban Institute to put single mothers’ own voices on the record. Tune in for Chastity’s Rondering, a question she asks herself as a leader, a spouse, and a parent: do you want to be right, or do you want to be effective? Chapters: (04:02) - Chastity Lord on gratitude and a life her mother and grandmother couldn't have dreamed for her (06:57) - Carol Burnett's autobiography and the tuition money in the mailbox (11:13) - Ronness: why joy belongs in wellness (12:57) - History as an angel: Harriet Tubman and the courage to enlist others (16:08) - The bus boycott and the unnamed people who walked through it (17:22) - José Rizal, Juneteenth, and the revolutions that don't get named (18:50) - Asking each person what they need from the group (20:48) - Therapy, self talk, and being in conversation with your greatness (24:37) - Talking to ten-year-old Ronald (27:08) - Hurt leaders and the martyrdom in social impact work (28:38) - Healing is evergreen: the scar that stays after the cut closes (31:36) - Jeremiah Program and why single moms dream in threes (33:18) - Building the largest coalition of single moms in the country (34:45) - The Urban Institute report on what single mothers need (35:38) - The math doesn't math: minimum wage and the cost of being poor (40:25) - Where Chastity finds joy: car games with her son and trash TV (45:25) - Chastity's Rondering: do you want to be right or effective? (49:44) - It's not really about the phone: a parent's job is to keep you safe Links: Carol Burnett and the tuition in her mailbox - https://www.biography.com/actors/carol-burnett-stranger-money Fifth Avenue, Uptown, James Baldwin - https://seeksummer.commons.gc.cuny.edu/fifth-avenue-uptown/ Elevating Their Voices: What Single Mothers Say They Need to Survive, Urban Institute - https://www.urban.org/research/publication/elevating-their-voices-what-single-mothers-say-they-need-survive Chastity Lord on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/chastity-lord-973870 More about Jeremiah Program: https://jeremiahprogram.org/ Jeremiah Program on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/jeremiahprogram/ Connect with Ron: www.linkedin.com/in/rapatalo Ron Rapatalo’s bestselling book Leverage: www.amazon.com/dp/1613431473 Interested in writing or publishing? Visit: www.leveragepublishinggroup.com Start your own podcast that matters: www.podcastsmatter.com Check out other impact-driven podcasts: www.podcaststhatmatter.org

Leadership coach and former Teach For America Chief People Officer Laura Saldivar Luna spent forty years defining success as the next achievement. When everything started breaking down at once, she asked a harder question: what if the problem was how she was relating to her own life? In this episode of Ronderings, Ron sits down with Laura, founder of Piñata Possible, to talk about what comes after you have checked every box and still have to ask what you actually want. It started at six, when a first-place trophy from a citywide math competition left her wanting more of that feeling. A first-generation Georgetown graduate, she told anyone at Teach For America headquarters who would listen that she would launch the San Antonio region within five years. She did, and watched her first 100 corps members teach in the same schools she attended growing up. Years later, she told her mom she had done everything on the list. Her mom cried and said: whatever you want. Laura was scared, because she was not sure. Ron and Laura dig into the piñata at the heart of her coaching: what feels like falling apart may be the opening to something bigger. They get candid about leaders who believe they serve people by burning themselves out, including an executive strategy session Laura showed up to with the flu, and Ron opens up about learning to forgive leaders who caused harm while burnt out themselves. Tune in to hear why Laura believes another word for uncertainty is possibility.  Chapters: 🏆 05:47 Laura Saldivar Luna's first-grade math trophy and forty years of chasing achievement🚪 07:57 Every box checked, then her mom's answer: whatever you want🪅 15:45 Piñata Possible: when falling apart is really breaking open🧭 33:06 Your body as a compass: a clear yes and a clear no🏫 39:23 Declaring a five-year dream to launch Teach For America San Antonio🤝 42:53 Relationship acumen: the leadership strength most workplace rubrics miss⏸️ 52:42 Burning out is not serving: slow down to go faster🕊️ 57:01 Forgiveness for leaders who caused harm while burnt out themselves🌬️ 01:11:45 Laura's Rondering: another word for uncertainty is possibility Links: Website: https://www.pinatapossible.com/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/laura-saldivar-luna Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/pinatapossible/ If something in this conversation sparked your curiosity, Laura would love to meet you one on one. Book a virtual tea with her via the Calendly link here. Connect with Ron: www.linkedin.com/in/rapataloCheck Out Ron's Book: www.amazon.com/dp/1613431473  Leverage Publishing Group: www.leveragepublishinggroup.comPublish a Book That Matters: http://booksthatmatter.orgStart a Podcast That Matters: http://podcastsmatter.comGo from Expert to Thought Leader: http://geniusdiscovery.org

Education leader Lanira Murphy has had people write her off as too joyful to be serious. She leads network-wide academics anyway, with karaoke in the PD and a firm belief that Black education leaders should never have to lead as someone else. In this episode of Ronderings, Ron sits down with Lanira Murphy, Senior Director of Academics and former California State Assembly candidate, to talk about joy as a leadership practice and why the field still needs a real plan for developing Black educators. Her story starts with her mother in Shreveport, Louisiana, whose school was desegregated when she was in eleventh grade. The Black schools closed and the Black teachers were fired, a loss Lanira says education has never recovered from. Her mother made sure her children would graduate. Lanira became the first in her family to finish college, then nearly applied to graduate school without asking her professor for a recommendation. The professor would not allow it, and told her to always give people the opportunity to participate in her life. Ron and Lanira dig into what her Assembly run, where she earned more than 60,000 votes against an incumbent, taught her about voice and motivation, and why adults in professional development deserve the same dynamic learning environments we want for kids. She is candid about the double bind Black women leaders face: too angry reads one way, too joyful reads as not serious. Her answer is to show up as herself anyway. Tune in to hear Lanira's Rondering on the power people underestimate in themselves, and why she believes the most powerful movements in American history came from young people.   Chapters: 🏫 03:54 Lanira Murphy on how desegregation taught her mother what education is worth🙌🏾 06:23 Always give people the opportunity to participate in your life🗳️ 11:57 Why she walked away from politics and chose Teach For America🌱 16:30 Pouring into Black education leaders after a lost generation😄 19:30 Joyful leadership means making sure people feel seen🎤 22:54 Adults don't play enough, and educators burn out without it⚖️ 28:01 The double bind of leading as a joyful Black woman🗣️ 34:43 What politics teaches school leaders about voice and the power of story⚡ 47:19 Lanira's Rondering: Marianne Williamson on being powerful beyond measure Links: LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/lanira-murphy-89899920 Lanira calls herself an open book: if she has a resource that's working, it's yours. Reach out to her on LinkedIn to keep the conversation going on joyful academic leadership and developing the next generation of Black education leaders. Connect with Ron: www.linkedin.com/in/rapataloCheck Out Ron's Book: www.amazon.com/dp/1613431473  Leverage Publishing Group: www.leveragepublishinggroup.comPublish a Book That Matters: http://booksthatmatter.orgStart a Podcast That Matters: http://podcastsmatter.comGo from Expert to Thought Leader: http://geniusdiscovery.org

Sarah Braver, COO and interim CEO of coLeague, embeds fractional People Leaders in mission-driven organizations. Her operating principle is that most workplace rules are made up, and you can build the one you actually want instead. In this episode of RONderings, Ron sits down with Sarah, who works with the fractional talent firm founded by Lora Cover, to talk about ADHD at work and why psychological safety is the layer everything else sits on. Sarah made up her own major at Furman, then spent her first job out of college color correcting photos for The Greenville News. An old professor called to ask what she was doing, and within weeks she was on Microsoft's campus in Redmond, in flip flops, because nobody had told her what to wear. She ran executive education for Fortune 50 companies out of London, wildly undiagnosed, learning the business from the back of the room while her actual job was making sure the binders showed up. She and Ron compare notes on ADHD as a work style, including why crochet works for her brain and knitting does not. Sarah makes the case that most of what looks like a performance problem at work is an anxiety problem, and most anxiety is an information problem. Her employee hierarchy of needs puts safety at the base, and she defines it broadly: not just feeling able to raise a problem, but knowing your paycheck will be right. Tune in to hear why Sarah believes mindset follows behavior, and what that means if you are trying to change how someone thinks.   Chapters: 🌮 04:05 Sarah Braver on Tijuana tacos and a life that never adds up ⛺ 10:19 The dad who invented fractional work and called it tent making 👟 13:07 Flip flops on Microsoft's campus and learning from the back of the room 🧩 26:37 Building three companies she no longer fit in 🧠 45:11 The designed distraction that lets an ADHD brain focus ⏳ 51:34 Inch wide and mile deep: why fractional work is interim work 🛡️ 55:09 The employee hierarchy of needs and why anxious people cannot work 📐 01:00:15 Most rules are made up, and mindset follows behavior Links: LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/sarahbraver Website: coleaguepartners.com Connect with Sarah Braver on LinkedIn or visit coLeague to learn more about embedding fractional People Leaders in mission-driven organizations, from chief people officers down through the full talent vertical. coLeague also offers a free Talent Diagnostic, a ten minute quiz for organizations trying to find the root cause of a people problem. Connect with Ron: www.linkedin.com/in/rapataloCheck Out Ron's Book: www.amazon.com/dp/1613431473  Leverage Publishing Group: www.leveragepublishinggroup.comPublish a Book That Matters: http://booksthatmatter.orgStart a Podcast That Matters: http://podcastsmatter.comGo from Expert to Thought Leader: http://geniusdiscovery.org

Executive coach and sabbatical guide Elandria Jackson Charles makes the case that a leader stepping away for three months is not a perk. It is an investment in organizational resilience. In this episode of Ronderings, Ron sits down with Elandria, founder of Ayoka Partners, to talk about sabbatical care and what changes when rest is built into the structure instead of left to the individual. Elandria grew up an only child outside Atlanta, raised by parents from Macon whose sacrifices never added up on paper. She was a junior Olympic champion at 12, running the 200 and the 400, and she was also throwing up before races. She quit track before college and lost the identity that came with it. Perfectionism carried her for years after that, until burnout and her second child arrived together. That is when she bet on herself and built Ayoka Partners. Ayoka is Yoruba for one who causes joy, and it was her original middle name. Ron brings a sports analogy. When a paid athlete goes down, the organization rehabs them, because getting that player back on the court matters to the team. The social impact sector calls itself a team sport and structurally plays an individual one. Elandria asks how we perceive injury when there is no limp, when a leader is answering every email and going home a shell of herself. A sabbatical, she says, shows you your leadership bench fast, and funders have a role in making one possible. Tune in to hear why Elandria says slowing down actually accelerates you, and what a yellow smiley face sticker in the shower drain has to do with joy.   Chapters: 🌿 02:40 Elandria Jackson Charles checked every box and still lost herself 🏃 07:40 A junior Olympic title at 12 and vomiting before races 🌅 24:27 Rest hygiene, and asking what fuel supports her dreams today 🪑 34:32 A sabbatical shows you who is actually on your leadership bench 🎾 36:34 Social impact says team sport and structurally plays an individual one 🩹 38:34 The injured leader with no limp, still answering every email 😊 40:32 Joy is micro: a smiley face sticker in the shower drain ⏸️ 44:39 The Rondering: pausing unlocks possibility, and slowing down accelerates you Links: LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/elandriajacksoncharles The Sabbatical Moment newsletter: sabbaticalmoment.myflodesk.com Instagram: @restclarityjoy Connect with Elandria Jackson Charles on LinkedIn to learn more about sabbatical care and her work supporting leaders, especially Black women leaders, to pause and come back with clarity. Her free newsletter, The Sabbatical Moment, is where she writes about the smaller sabbatical moments you can build into an ordinary Thursday. Connect with Ron: www.linkedin.com/in/rapataloCheck Out Ron's Book: www.amazon.com/dp/1613431473  Leverage Publishing Group: www.leveragepublishinggroup.comPublish a Book That Matters: http://booksthatmatter.orgStart a Podcast That Matters: http://podcastsmatter.comGo from Expert to Thought Leader: http://geniusdiscovery.org

Civic designer and movement strategist Dr. Kim McLear spent twenty years in the Coast Guard, and ten of them running a whistleblowing campaign built on carnival rhythm instead of the lone hero. In this episode of Ronderings, Ron sits down with Kim, a systems engineer turned artist and movement builder, to talk about how she reimagined whistleblowing as a collective practice with rhythm and discipline. Kim is a first generation American raised by Trinidad and Tobago immigrant parents who each served nearly thirty years in the military. She started school in Okinawa and finished high school in Germany, with 18 cities behind her before she could vote. She still has a scar on one finger from opening a reinforced steel door during a cyclone to get a better look at the trees dancing. Hours under the hood of cars with her father taught her that changing one part changes the whole system, which is the thread that runs to her PhD in systems engineering. She picked the Coast Guard because it was the furthest thing from anything she knew, water included. When she spoke up, she refused the single hero version and built a survivor led coalition of thousands while continuing to serve as an officer and teach as a professor. She stayed disciplined about describing behavior rather than calling people names, and over a ten year arc that work helped surface a CNN investigation and new federal laws. Tune in to hear why Kim calls despair a design feature of oppressive systems, and what practicing the future looks like when it starts with a paint bucket and a couple of friends.   Chapters: 🧵 02:39 Dr. Kim McLear: engineer, professor, and Coast Guard whistleblower 🌍 07:47 Dignity for all living systems, not just the human ones 🌀 11:55 Cyclones and car engines: the making of a systems engineer ⚓ 25:45 Why she joined the branch furthest from her comfort zone 🥁 30:18 Whistleblowing with carnival rhythm: no one whistles a symphony alone 📰 38:36 The ten year arc behind the CNN investigation and new federal laws 🚫 49:59 Never call people names: describe the behavior instead 🎷 01:01:42 Practice the future: grab a paint bucket and a couple of friends 🎭 01:04:11 Despair is a design feature of oppressive systems Links: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/justdrkim/ Connect with Dr. Kim McLear on LinkedIn to follow her work as a civic designer and movement strategist building education ecosystems for movement builders. Her practice draws on music and rhythm to help communities move from fragmentation toward coherence, which is the same practice she walks through on this episode.  Connect with Ron: www.linkedin.com/in/rapataloCheck Out Ron's Book: www.amazon.com/dp/1613431473  Leverage Publishing Group: www.leveragepublishinggroup.comPublish a Book That Matters: http://booksthatmatter.orgStart a Podcast That Matters: http://podcastsmatter.comGo from Expert to Thought Leader: http://geniusdiscovery.org

Gold Chhim leads national partnerships at Education Pioneers. For years he kept his identity and his leadership in two separate lanes, and closing that gap is what he now means by authentic leadership. In this episode of Ronderings, Ron sits down with Gold, Managing Director of Partnerships at Education Pioneers, to talk about what it costs to be the only one in the room and what changes when you stop paying it. Gold grew up on the east side of Compton, the son of a Cambodian refugee mother who told him his job was education. His schools were roughly 65% Latino and 34% Black. The remaining 1% was him. He got into UCLA and finished year one on academic probation, wondering whether he was smart enough to be there. Two days after graduating, he flew to Detroit with two suitcases and started teaching high school math. He founded the basketball team too, which made him the winningest coach in school history by default. Ron and Gold get into the part that does not fit on a resume. Gold's students in Detroit had never met an Asian person, and their only reference point was Jeremy Lin. The two of them compare notes on being judged by other Asian Americans for how they talk, and on why code switching eventually stopped being worth it. Tune in to hear the question Gold uses as a north star: is he living as someone 15 year old Gold would look up to?   Chapters: 🌏 01:53 Gold Chhim and the short list of Southeast Asian leaders in education 🧭 08:31 The hustle his mother taught him: education was the job 🎓 10:38 Academic probation at UCLA and the fear of not belonging 🧳 12:23 Two suitcases to Detroit two days after graduating 🔢 14:49 Growing up as the 1% on the east side of Compton 🏀 21:23 His Detroit students had never met an Asian person before 🏙️ 27:23 Teaching in a city that woke up bankrupt 💿 37:54 Music as a better entry point than what do you do 🚦 39:32 Why he stopped keeping identity and work in separate lanes 💬 49:57 The Ronderings question: create the conditions for authentic leadership Links: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/gold-chhim-94b59a9a/ Connect with Gold Chhim on LinkedIn to learn more about his partnership work across the education sector at Education Pioneers. He asked for it directly on the episode: message him, and he will look for a way to partner.  Connect with Ron: www.linkedin.com/in/rapataloCheck Out Ron's Book: www.amazon.com/dp/1613431473  Leverage Publishing Group: www.leveragepublishinggroup.comPublish a Book That Matters: http://booksthatmatter.orgStart a Podcast That Matters: http://podcastsmatter.comGo from Expert to Thought Leader: http://geniusdiscovery.org

Philanthropy does not fail for lack of money. It fails when nobody in the room has the courage to put the issue on the table. Marvin L. Smith has spent twenty years watching that happen from the inside. In this episode of Ronderings, Ron sits down with Marvin, founder of the advisory practice and podcast Funding Bravely, for a conversation about what it costs to keep your voice inside systems that were never built for you. Marvin grew up outside Boston, a Black and brown kid in a predominantly white, upper income town, with a hoarse voice that made read alouds something to survive. Tennis is where he found leadership before he found words. In third grade a teacher had him beating sixth graders in a math contest and feeling invincible. In eighth grade, an algebra teacher pulled him out of history class and threatened his place at the school for letting a friend copy his homework. He bombed the state test that year and did not get his confidence back for decades. He and Ron get into philanthropy from close range. Funders who quietly bankroll advocacy but will not attach their names to it. Rooms convened to solve a problem with nobody present who has lived it. Marvin's read: the deciding factor was rarely the size of the check or the polish of the pitch deck. It was whether courage showed up. They also talk about what comes after a role elimination, and why Marvin will not shrink to fit somebody else's job description.  Chapters: 🎾 04:05 Meet Marvin L. Smith: a hoarse voice and a tennis court ➗ 05:54 Feeling invincible in math, then threatened over a shared homework 📉 08:28 The state test never made for him and the repair nobody offered 🎒 09:58 The kids were never the problem, so he asked what they wanted 🏆 18:19 Learning tennis etiquette, then deciding to play his own way 💸 26:23 What twenty years close to donors actually showed him 🔑 28:26 Courage was the variable, not the money or the pitch deck 🌊 30:56 The great wealth transfer and the advisory practice built for it 🛡️ 32:58 What makes people act bravely, and why nobody wants to go first 🎯 35:40 The tennis coach question that became his advising model 💼 41:45 A role elimination, and refusing to let the market set his value ✊ 45:10 I cannot shrink myself to fit someone else's job description 🔁 53:41 Reparative philanthropy and why no donor should do this alone Links: Website: fundingbravely.com LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/marvin-smith-a2672012 Substack: open.substack.com/pub/fundingbravely Funding Bravely podcast: YouTube | Spotify | Apple Podcasts Connect with Marvin on LinkedIn or follow Funding Bravely to hear the conversations he is having with grant makers and fundraisers about where courage actually shows up in philanthropy, including a coming miniseries on donor advised funds. He also works directly with wealth holders and nonprofit leaders on philanthropic advising and storytelling. Connect with Ron: www.linkedin.com/in/rapataloCheck Out Ron's Book: www.amazon.com/dp/1613431473  Leverage Publishing Group: www.leveragepublishinggroup.comPublish a Book That Matters: http://booksthatmatter.orgStart a Podcast That Matters: http://podcastsmatter.comGo from Expert to Thought Leader: http://geniusdiscovery.org

Executive coach and Lead For Liberation founder Shayna Renee Hammond has spent two decades coaching Black leaders through burnout, and she says the work starts with energy, not strategy. In this episode of Ronderings, Ron sits down with Shayna, founder of Lead For Liberation and Indigo Unbound, for a conversation about what it costs to lead inside systems that were never built for you. Her first day of school was in Pinckney, Michigan, a rural town known for the Ku Klux Klan. She was five, the only Black child, and no one on the bus would let her sit down. She got an assigned seat behind the driver and rode alone for the rest of the year. The emotion she remembers is not shame. It is curiosity. What she took from it was a sentence she still uses: it ain't me. Fifth grade in Washington DC brought her first Black teacher, who pulled her aside and told her she was a leader. She went from the bottom reading group to the top of her class, and became a principal at 25, leading the highest performing middle school in Baltimore at the time. Ron and Shayna get into the raw deal school leaders are handed. LeBron has a trainer and a physical therapist behind him. Principals are told to put up all star numbers and hand themselves an ice pack. Shayna calls the thing underneath it a sick collective consciousness, built on scarcity and false urgency, and she is not waiting for the system to fix itself. Tune in to hear what spirit told her when she felt stuck at 45, and why she calls the CrossFit Open a diagnostic.  Chapters: 🎙️ 00:11 Welcome to Ronderings, and meeting Shayna Renee Hammond 🚌 03:28 Kindergarten in Pinckney, and the bus where no one let her sit ✏️ 07:35 The fifth grade teacher who told her she was a leader 🪞 14:20 It ain't me, and presence alone is revolutionary 📹 16:29 The talk she gave that found her fifth grade teacher again ⏰ 20:25 The Teach for America application she filed at 2:53 in the morning 🗺️ 22:00 Dr. Alonso opened an org chart and let her choose 🤰 26:46 Recruited back by KIPP at eight months pregnant 🌱 31:11 Leaving to be a present mom, and the first contract 💜 36:20 IndigoWomen becomes Indigo Unbound, and a room of 100 Black men 🏀 40:06 LeBron has a whole team, school leaders get an ice pack 🏋️ 43:17 The CrossFit Open and what spirit said about being stuck ⚡ 48:51 The Ronderings question: invest in your energy Links: Website: www.leadforliberation.com Website: www.indigounbound.com Instagram: @indigounbound Reach out to Shayna Renee Hammond through Lead For Liberation for executive coaching and organizational culture work, or through Indigo Unbound, the space she built for Black leaders and entrepreneurs to do the inner work that sustains the outer impact. Connect with Ron: www.linkedin.com/in/rapataloCheck Out Ron's Book: www.amazon.com/dp/1613431473  Leverage Publishing Group: www.leveragepublishinggroup.comPublish a Book That Matters: http://booksthatmatter.orgStart a Podcast That Matters: http://podcastsmatter.comGo from Expert to Thought Leader: http://geniusdiscovery.org

Founding principal turned entrepreneur Dr. LaShawnna Harris opened a New York City public school with 220 kindergartners and ran the operations flawlessly. Her appointment still stalled, because systems were never the part she needed to master. In this episode of Ronderings, Ron sits down with LaShawnna, founder of sharEDtalent, to talk about the gap between technical excellence and the relationships that decide whether you get to stay in the room. LaShawnna is a Queens girl who took the bus across the bridge to Monsignor Scanlan in the Bronx and landed at RPI planning to be an engineer. She switched to management and had her daughter as a sophomore. She graduated into a job market that closed on 9/11, with an interview at the World Trade Center scheduled for the week after. An ad for the New York City Teaching Fellows put her in a Bronx classroom by September. By 2010 she was a founding principal in Corona with no grievances and a school she describes as rocking and rolling. Her appointment was held up anyway. A network leader told her to work on the people things. A superintendent suggested she bring donuts. Six months before her defense, she threw out her dissertation and wrote a new one on race socialization, trust, and how Black entrepreneurs mobilize social capital. That research is the foundation of her work now, designing Impact Labs where leaders and entrepreneurs solve problems together instead of trading business cards. Tune in to hear why LaShawnna says the answer is already in your network, and what it costs to never make the ask.   Chapters: 🗽 03:10 Dr. LaShawnna Harris from a Queens block to engineering at RPI 🎓 08:38 Switching to management so she would not fail out of RPI ✂️ 10:57 A police officer with a barbershop and a mother who sewed 😢 13:48 Crying in a closet as a first year teacher 🏫 18:13 Opening a school with 220 kindergartners in Corona 🍩 20:28 The appointment that stalled, and the advice to bring donuts 🤝 22:50 Social capital was not a thing to her in 2010 🧭 25:32 Founding sharEDtalent to connect schools with the help they need 📚 33:32 Rewriting her whole dissertation six months before the defense 🎤 38:19 Redesigning the ed conference so people actually solve problems together 🙌 49:11 The Ronderings question: make the ask, slow does not mean no Links: Website: www.sharedtalent.org LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/lashawnnaharris Substack: substack.com/@sharedtalent Impact Labs: www.sharedtalent.org/impact-lab Reach out to Dr. LaShawnna Harris to learn more about sharEDtalent and the Impact Labs she runs for leaders and entrepreneurs who want to get clear, test ideas, and build the relationships their work depends on.   Connect with Ron: www.linkedin.com/in/rapataloCheck Out Ron's Book: www.amazon.com/dp/1613431473  Leverage Publishing Group: www.leveragepublishinggroup.comPublish a Book That Matters: http://booksthatmatter.orgStart a Podcast That Matters: http://podcastsmatter.comGo from Expert to Thought Leader: http://geniusdiscovery.org

Nonprofit leadership is a creative practice, not a title you master. Executive coach Gary Bagley led New York Cares and now works with the executives and boards holding organizations together. In this episode of Ronderings, Ron sits down with Gary, board adviser and adjunct professor at Columbia and Baruch, to talk about what nonprofit leadership asks of people when the ground keeps moving. Gary trained as a musician. A friend asked him to play piano for a kids' musical theater class, and inside he thought no. He said yes anyway and fell in love with it. That yes led to teaching arts in New York City classrooms and eventually to the top job at New York Cares. A seventh grade aptitude test had told him to be a teacher, be a preacher, or be a social worker. He did not know what a social worker was. He and Ron dig into the gap between the power people assign a nonprofit CEO and the power the job carries. Gary's view is that the most important decisions do not belong to the CEO, and that real preparation means sitting in rooms where people disagree. They also get into boards. A board governs an entire organization on roughly ten to twelve hours of meeting time a year, and going virtual gave Gary the best attendance he had ever seen without the engagement to match. And the people absorbing the most pressure right now are not CEOs. They are the senior leadership teams one level down. Tune in to hear why Gary defines trust as the sum of expectations met, and what saying yes to possibility looks like when the moment feels closed.   Chapters: 🎭 02:48 Gary Bagley: from teaching arts in classrooms to running New York Cares 🎹 08:29 The piano favor he almost turned down 💡 12:05 Making one and one equal three, and why leaders have to fail ⚖️ 17:48 The biggest decisions in a nonprofit do not belong to the CEO 🚦 25:48 Somebody put a foot on the gas pedal and never let up 🪑 32:58 The time boards need most is the time they have least 🤝 40:18 Trust is the sum of expectations met 🛟 44:37 Senior leadership teams are getting hit the hardest 🎨 47:17 The Ronderings question: say yes to possibility Links: Website: garybagley.com LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/garybagley Reach out to Gary Bagley to talk executive coaching, board governance, and succession planning, and follow his biweekly LinkedIn newsletter Bagleyisms for his running notes on leading and managing nonprofits. Connect with Ron: www.linkedin.com/in/rapataloCheck Out Ron's Book: www.amazon.com/dp/1613431473  Leverage Publishing Group: www.leveragepublishinggroup.comPublish a Book That Matters: http://booksthatmatter.orgStart a Podcast That Matters: http://podcastsmatter.comGo from Expert to Thought Leader: http://geniusdiscovery.org

Parent engagement advocate Punam V. Saxena failed the gifted test in second grade, and spent the next twenty five years believing she was not smart. In this episode of Ronderings, Ron sits down with Punam, a TEDx and SXSW EDU speaker who started out teaching special education, for a conversation about what schools miss when nobody asks families what they actually want. Punam grew up outside Atlanta in the 1970s, the only Indian family in the community. Neighbors asked what tribe they belonged to and how the bindi stayed on her mother's forehead. Her father, the first agricultural engineer of Indian descent hired in this country, once answered that they were Cherokee just to end the conversation. When a second Indian family moved in and their son was also kept out of gifted, Punam's parents told them to go advocate. He got in. He went to MIT. At 22, with no training, she was put in a self contained classroom of students with autism. Later, teaching students with severe emotional disturbances in Florida, she noticed that not one parent came to her door. The turn came in an IEP meeting, where a mother who had taken two buses and unpaid hours off work sat silent while the professionals wrote goals. Punam stopped and asked what she wanted. The answer was life skills, because her son would graduate in seven years. She and Ron get into the Puritan foundations still sitting under American schooling, and her dissertation on how second generation Indian American women build a hybrid cultural identity in college. Tune in to hear why Punam's Ronderings is equity over equality, 100% of the time.   Chapters: 🎙️ 00:11 Welcome to Ronderings, and meeting Punam V. Saxena 🏡 05:14 One Indian family in rural Georgia, and the question about what tribe 📉 10:18 How failing the gifted test made her believe she was not smart 🧩 14:24 At 22, handed a classroom of students with autism and no training 💬 16:36 The parent who took two buses and was never asked anything 🏅 19:22 The next Indian family advocated, and their son got into MIT 🤝 23:21 Why showing up only when there is a problem makes teachers defensive ⛪ 32:32 An education system still built on Puritan ideals 📖 43:25 Her dissertation on being Indian at home and American at school ❤️ 52:37 The Ronderings question: equity over equality, 100% of the time Links: Website: punamvsaxena.com LinkedIn: Punam Saxena Email: [email protected] Reach out to Punam V. Saxena for coaching, consulting, and workshops on parent engagement, or to bring her in to speak on what multicultural families need from the schools their children attend. Connect with Ron: www.linkedin.com/in/rapataloCheck Out Ron's Book: www.amazon.com/dp/1613431473  Leverage Publishing Group: www.leveragepublishinggroup.comPublish a Book That Matters: http://booksthatmatter.orgStart a Podcast That Matters: http://podcastsmatter.comGo from Expert to Thought Leader: http://geniusdiscovery.org

Educator and community builder Craig Aarons-Martin, founder of the Black Boy Joy Summit, has spent more than two decades doing transformative work in Boston's schools, and he is candid here about the rooms he still gets shut out of and why he keeps building anyway. In this episode of Ronderings, Ron sits down with Craig, a New Orleans native, longtime school leader, and author, to talk about belonging, masculinity, faith, and what it takes to choose purpose while carrying real weight. Craig traces his path from a summer school classroom in Louisiana, where a teacher named Miss Madeline handed him a math lesson at thirteen, to Dillard University, to Lesley University and the greater Boston area. He is honest about arriving in Boston over three hundred pounds, "a hundred and seventy-five pounds of that being depression," working his calling while mostly closeted, convinced that showing up fully himself could cost him his license. Ron opens the conversation from his own grief, having just buried his nephew Arnold, and that honesty sets the tone for everything that follows. The two get into why vulnerability is so hard for men of color, what it means when a father starts learning to emote after forty years of silence, and how Craig built the Black Boy Joy Summit as a space for boys of color to see unsung heroes rather than only celebrities and seven-figure CEOs. Craig also names the harder truth underneath his visible success: a hundred outreach emails and twenty-five sponsorship proposals that went nowhere, and a calling he refuses to abandon. Tune in to hear why Craig believes the breakdown always comes before the breakthrough, and why taking L's might be the necessary cost of elevation.   Chapters: 🌱 02:46 Craig Aarons-Martin on the journey of becoming 🧭 05:08 More years in the North, but a Southerner first 🤝 07:54 Why he finally said yes to brotherhood in his forties 🫂 12:52 The loneliness young men of color carry behind the feed 🍎 16:31 Miss Madeline, a math lesson, and the moment he became a teacher 💔 21:12 Arriving in Boston at 300 pounds, carrying depression and a calling 🏳️‍🌈 24:32 The double standard of who gets to be out at work 🧱 27:35 Two decades of excellence and the rooms still closed to him 🗣️ 32:15 A father learning to emote after forty years of silence 🏋️ 35:34 What men lock themselves out of when they refuse to connect 👑 40:17 Building the Black Boy Joy Summit for the sons he hopes to have 🎯 44:33 Taking L's on the way to elevation, and the breakdown before the breakthrough Links: Email: [email protected] Website: ccmeducationgroup.co LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/craigcmartin Linktree: linktr.ee/iamcraigaaronsmartin Reach out to Craig Aarons-Martin to learn more about the Black Boy Joy Summit and his work building brave, affirming spaces for boys and men of color in education. Connect with Ron: www.linkedin.com/in/rapataloCheck Out Ron's Book: www.amazon.com/dp/1613431473  Leverage Publishing Group: www.leveragepublishinggroup.comPublish a Book That Matters: http://booksthatmatter.orgStart a Podcast That Matters: http://podcastsmatter.comGo from Expert to Thought Leader: http://geniusdiscovery.org

Dr. Nadia Lopez banked 156 unused sick days. When she finally got too sick to work, the Department of Education separated her from payroll and told her she could come back to work. In this episode of Ronderings, Ron sits down with Dr. Nadia Lopez, award-winning educator, best-selling author of The Bridge to Brilliance, and the founding principal of Mott Hall Bridges Academy in Brownsville, Brooklyn, for a conversation about educator wellness, burnout, and what it costs to give a system everything you have. Dr. Lopez never planned to teach. She trained as a critical care nurse, detoured through Verizon, and was rejected from the NYC Teaching Fellows before a mentor forced them to put the rejection in writing. They could not. She landed in a seventh grade special education classroom in Fort Greene and brought her nursing philosophy with her: know the child before you read the IEP, treat the behaviors and not the label, understand the context before you diagnose the problem. She talks about asking her students whether they had a library at home and realizing they did not own a single book, while thousands sat unused in school storage rooms. She talks about the Global Teacher Prize taking her to Dubai, Sweden, and Korea, and what those systems understand about sustainability that we do not. She talks about her mentor Karen, who ignored her own symptoms the same way Dr. Lopez ignored hers. And she talks about the autoimmune diagnosis that ended her principalship, the medical sabbatical the DOE denied her, and the fight to get insurance back so she could have surgery. Tune in to hear why Dr. Lopez believes leadership is responsibility, not martyrdom, and what her HEART framework asks of leaders who have never once been asked how their heart and spirit are doing.   Chapters: 🩺 02:53 Dr. Nadia Lopez never wanted to be an educator, she was supposed to be a nurse ✉️ 06:56 Rejected by the NYC Teaching Fellows, until a mentor asked them to put it in writing 🏫 11:31 Seventh grade special education in Fort Greene, and the nursing philosophy she brought with her 📕 15:30 The question she asked every student: do you have a library at home 🇬🇹 20:27 Guatemala, the food pantry, and the child nobody knew was struggling 🌍 23:44 The Global Teacher Prize, teaching under a tree, and what other systems understand ❤️ 29:30 The question she asks educators everywhere: how is your heart and spirit 🕯️ 31:26 Karen Giles, glioblastoma, and the signs they both ignored 🚫 41:16 The HEART framework, 156 unused sick days, and the sabbatical the DOE denied 👩‍👧 45:14 Walking away as the lesson she was teaching her daughter about her own worth 📋 50:36 We have attendance protocols for students and nothing for leaders 💭 54:58 The Ronderings question: listen to your body or you become a hypocrite Links: Website: www.thelopezeffect.com Work with Dr. Lopez: www.thelopezeffect.com/workwithme Socials: @thelopezeffect on LinkedIn, Instagram, TikTok, Threads, and X Dr. Lopez coaches women leaders in education on building careers they can sustain, and she is launching a new health and wellness endeavor. Reach out to her if you are leading a school or a system and no one has asked you lately how your heart and spirit are doing. Connect with Ron: www.linkedin.com/in/rapataloCheck Out Ron's Book: www.amazon.com/dp/1613431473  Leverage Publishing Group: www.leveragepublishinggroup.comPublish a Book That Matters: http://booksthatmatter.orgStart a Podcast That Matters: http://podcastsmatter.comGo from Expert to Thought Leader: http://geniusdiscovery.org