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This week, we’re revisiting an important conversation from an earlier season of This vs. That. When does harshness in a relationship cross the line into abuse? And how can we recognize the difference when the signs aren’t always obvious? In this episode, we sit down with Darby Strickland, counselor and faculty member with the Christian Counseling & Educational Foundation (CCEF), to talk about harshness vs. abuse. Together, we explore the dynamics of abusive relationships, why abuse can be difficult to recognize from the outside—and even from within the relationship—and how Christians can better understand, support, and care for those experiencing abuse. This is a conversation worth returning to, especially for counselors, ministry leaders, friends, and anyone wanting to better understand how to respond wisely and compassionately to those who are suffering. Resources from Darby Strickland: What Is Abuse?: A Biblical Guide to Identifying Domestic Abuse and Helping Victims Something Scary Happened: Comfort for Children in Hard Times Domestic Abuse: Help for the Sufferer Domestic Abuse: Recognize, Respond, Rescue Trauma: Caring for Survivors When Children Experience Trauma: What to Do When Something Scary Happens This vs. That is a podcast of Anchored Virtual. Anchored Virtual provides practical help to those who are hurting by anchoring their hope in Jesus and helping others better understand his promises. Our counselors provide reputable, biblical counsel for those suffering or walking through difficult seasons of life. To meet with a counselor, visit anchoredvirtual.com and schedule an appointment today.

On this episode of This vs. That, we share the first half of a conversation from our sister podcast, Consult the Counselor. Brian Walker talks with Anchored Virtual counselor Josh Clink about the difficult and nuanced work of counseling abusive men. Together, we consider how abuse uses patterns of power and control, why those patterns can be difficult to recognize, and how counselors and pastors can pursue accountability and repentance while prioritizing the safety of those who have been harmed. We also discuss avoiding false moral equivalence, recognizing manipulation, and maintaining healthy boundaries as we point toward the hope of genuine, gospel-centered change.

On this episode of This vs. That, we talk with Bekah Hannah and Abbey Wedgeworth about fearful versus wise engagement in parenting. Drawing from their recent books and their own experiences raising children, Bekah and Abbey help us think about what it looks like to prepare our kids for a difficult and unpredictable world without parenting from a place of fear or anxiety. We talk about why parenting formulas can be so appealing, how our desire to protect our children can sometimes become an attempt to control their experiences and outcomes, and why dependence on God offers something far more secure than getting everything right. Along the way, we discuss helping children navigate fear, doubt, difficult emotions, suffering, failure, and circumstances that are simply beyond our control. Becca and Abby share how they are learning to resist the impulse to immediately fix their children’s problems or tell them how they should feel, choosing instead to create space for honest questions, difficult emotions, and age-appropriate exposure to the realities of life. We also explore what it means to bring a non-anxious presence into our homes, how our reactions can reveal what we are wanting from our children, and why redefining our idea of the “good life” can free us to parent with greater wisdom and peace. Whether your instinct is to shield your children from hard things or push them quickly toward the right answer, this conversation encourages us to slow down, trust God with our children, and help them discover that even when life does not go the way they hoped, they are still known, loved, and kept by him.

On this episode of This vs. That, we sit down with Dave Wiedis, author of The Spiritually Healthy Leader: Finding Freedom from Self-Sabotage, to discuss how hidden motives and ruling passions can quietly undermine our leadership, relationships, and intimacy with Christ. We explore the warning signs of self-sabotage, the danger of confusing ministry success with spiritual health, and the importance of receiving honest feedback. Dave also helps us consider how our family stories, past wounds, desires for comfort, control, affirmation, and safety can shape the way we lead. Together, we talk about bringing those motives into the light, seeing ourselves through the grace-filled eyes of Christ, and pursuing genuine repentance and lasting transformation. ---- For more information about Anchored Virtual, visit ⁠⁠⁠⁠anchoredvirtual.com

On this episode of This vs. That, we talk with Portia Collins about freedom in Christ vs. living in bondage. Drawing from her book Finding Freedom in Christ: An Eight-Week Study of Galatians and her own story of coming to understand the gospel more fully, Portia helps us explore what Paul means when he says that Christ has set us free. We discuss how biblical freedom differs from our culture’s idea of being free to simply do whatever we want, and why both lawlessness and legalism ultimately leave us in bondage. Along the way, we talk about the subtle ways Christians can begin attaching their identity and worth to ministry, parenting, spiritual disciplines, accomplishments, and other good things, and how disappointment and loss can reveal where we have been looking for something other than Christ to secure us. We also consider how our adoption as sons and daughters of God changes the way we understand obedience, identity, and our relationships with other believers, and why the law was never intended to be a means of earning salvation. Portia shares how the book of Galatians transformed her own understanding of the gospel and continues to draw her back to the finished work of Christ when she is tempted toward performance and self-reliance. Whether you tend toward trying to prove yourself through what you do or toward defining freedom on your own terms, this conversation reminds us that true freedom is not found in ourselves, our performance, or the absence of restraint, but in belonging to Christ and resting in what he has accomplished for us.

On this episode of This vs. That, we talk with Tim St. John, counseling pastor at Lighthouse Community Church and author of After Church Hurt, about faithful wounds versus church hurt. We consider the important difference between the discomfort that comes from loving correction within the body of Christ and the destructive pain that results when sinful patterns are minimized, normalized, or protected within a church. Tim helps us think through why faithful wounds are an essential part of Christian community, how pastors and church leaders can cultivate a culture of humility and repentance, and what distinguishes ordinary relational failures from more serious patterns of church hurt. We also discuss how those who have been deeply wounded by a church can begin to process what happened, discern when it may be necessary to leave, and slowly rebuild trust in Christian community. Along the way, we talk about the importance of acknowledging and naming sin clearly, creating space for lament and grief, resisting the desire for a perfectly comfortable church, and learning to recognize the character and fruit of healthy church leadership. We also consider the unique role biblical counselors can play in caring for those who have experienced church hurt by listening patiently, helping them understand their experiences through Scripture, and continually pointing them toward the character and compassion of Christ. Whether you have personally experienced church hurt, are walking alongside someone who has, or are a pastor or counselor seeking to care faithfully for wounded people, this conversation offers a thoughtful framework for pursuing truth, healing, humility, and healthy life together in the church.

On this episode of This vs. That, we talk with Peter Beck about lament versus despair and his deeply personal experience with PTSD. Drawing from his book, The Dark Night of the Soul, Peter shares how trauma reshaped his life, challenged his understanding of strength, and brought him face-to-face with seasons when he knew God was present but struggled to feel His nearness. We talk about the biblical difference between lament and despair, why suffering isn’t something we can simply think or pray our way out of, and how Scripture gives us language for walking faithfully through darkness. We also discuss the role of counseling and medication alongside confidence in the sufficiency of Scripture, the difficulty of admitting when we need help, and how friends, family, churches, and counselors can meaningfully walk alongside those experiencing trauma, depression, or thoughts of self-harm. Through Peter’s honest story, we consider what it means to acknowledge weakness, receive help as an expression of God’s common grace, and hold onto hope even when the darkness doesn’t immediately lift.

On this episode of This vs. That, we talk with Phil Newton about confession versus self-loathing. Phil helps us understand the difference between agreeing with God about our sin and trying to punish ourselves for it. We discuss why true confession leads us to Christ, how self-loathing can become a form of self-reliance, and why Jesus’ finished work is enough for our guilt and shame. We also talk about the role of Scripture, daily devotion, corporate confession, and the assurance of pardon in helping us see both the seriousness of sin and the greater sufficiency of Christ.

On this episode of This vs. That, we talk with Karrie Hahn about the difference between miserable comforters and godly comforters in chronic suffering. Drawing from her book, Limping Heavenward, Carrie helps us consider how well-intentioned words, spiritual soundbites, avoidance, and neglect can add weight to those who are already suffering. We explore why true comfort requires humility, compassion, presence, and a willingness to listen before we speak. Together, we reflect on how the gospel shapes the way we come alongside those who are enduring long-term pain, offering not quick fixes or tidy answers, but faithful presence, practical help, and hope in Christ. ----- For more information about Anchored Virtual, visit ⁠⁠⁠⁠anchoredvirtual.com

On this episode of This vs. That, we talk with Rebekah Hannah about her book The Secret to Confidence and the difference between focusing on our identity in Christ and rooting our confidence in Christ Himself. We reflect on how self-focused “identity talk” can subtly become a self-help tool, why real stability can’t come from our performance (or from other people), and how beholding Christ changes the way we live, lead, and relate. We discuss practical ways to strengthen confidence in Christ, how to escape the cul-de-sac of constant self-evaluation, and how seeing the image of God in others frees us from unrealistic expectations and comparison. ---- For more information about Anchored Virtual, visit ⁠⁠⁠anchoredvirtual.com

On this episode of This vs. That, we celebrate our 80th episode by pulling back the curtain on eight seasons of the podcast. We reflect on what we've learned through this journey, discuss the original intention behind the show, and share how the podcast has evolved over time. We talk about finding our voice as co-hosts, the spiritual and emotional tone we hoped to create, and how our conversations have deepened from being more formal and topic-focused to becoming more pastoral, honest, and comfortable sitting in complexity. We discuss how the podcast aims for wisdom rather than hot takes, creating space for curiosity over combativeness. Our guest host Evan Magelssen asks about memorable conversations, Brian's process for writing questions tailored to each guest, and what has surprised us most about the podcast's reach—particularly how pastors have found the episodes timely and applicable to their ministry challenges. We also share how different guests bring unique energy to each episode. Throughout the conversation, we express gratitude for our listeners who join us week after week, and our hope that this podcast continues to be a blessing as we navigate life's tensions together without rushing to tidy answers.

On this episode of This vs. That, we explore a tension that many in ministry face: being needed versus being known. We're joined by Rebekah Hannah and Kari Ann Tilson, co-founders of Rode Leadership, a partner organization of Anchored Virtual. We discuss Rode Leadership's upcoming pastor's wives cohort and examine why this topic is especially relevant for pastor's wives. Pastor's wives often feel the pull of being needed by many people for many things, facing overwhelming expectations from their church communities while struggling to find safe places for authentic relationships. Throughout the conversation, we explore how being needed can become a trap where we find our identity and value in what we do rather than who we are in Christ. We discuss the subtle shift that happens when our identity moves from being rooted in Christ to being rooted in our output and performance. We also talk about what it means to have confidence in Christ—not confidence in our abilities or results, but confidence in the person of Jesus Christ who calls us, equips us, and gives us value. This confidence enables us not only to serve well but also to be known authentically. We address the practical challenges pastor's wives face in finding genuine friendships where they can be vulnerable and known as individuals, not just as extensions of their husband's ministry. The conversation includes wisdom about focusing on specific areas of giftedness rather than trying to meet every need, and the importance of finding trustworthy people with whom deeper relationships can develop. Finally, we discuss how the pastor's wives cohort creates a safe space for women experiencing similar challenges across different contexts to share, grow, and realize they're not alone. --- To get 25% off the Pastors' Wives Cohort, visit www.rodeleadership.com/pwc and use the code TVT25

On this episode of This vs. That, we sit down with Jared Wilson to explore the tension between gospel-centered and issue-driven ministry. We ask whether gospel centeredness was just another evangelical trend or if it remains essential to the DNA of healthy Christians and churches. Jared breaks down what gospel-centered ministry actually means—centering on Christ in Scripture, trusting grace for heart-level change, and finding our validation in Christ's performance rather than our own. In contrast, issue-driven ministry hinges its hope for change on cultural topics or headlines rather than the announcement of the gospel. We discuss why some have moved away from gospel centrality, exploring concerns about pragmatism and the temptation to lean on other approaches when change seems slow. Jared offers practical wisdom on how to recognize when we've drifted from gospel-centered ministry—often it starts when the gospel begins to feel perfunctory or less interesting than the cultural issue of the day. Throughout our conversation, we grapple with how to keep the gospel central when cultural issues demand our attention, and how to avoid treating the gospel like an empty Trojan rabbit—something we've forgotten to include in our ministry altogether.

On this episode of This vs. That, we explore the relationship between professional counseling and everyday counseling with Dr. Kristin Kellen, associate professor of biblical counseling at Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary. We discuss how these two forms of counseling exist on a spectrum, examining the differences in formality, reciprocity, and structure. We consider the biblical foundation for everyday counseling through the "one another" passages that call all believers to care for each other, while also addressing how professional counseling fits within a Christian framework. We tackle common objections to using counseling language for informal relationships and clarify definitions that help distinguish between professional therapy and everyday discipleship. We also discuss practical guidance on discerning when to seek help from your local church community versus when professional counseling may be needed. Kristin shares insights on how both levels of care can work together in a care team model, and offers wisdom on cultivating a culture of vulnerability and openness within church communities. Finally, we explore the various levels of training available for those who want to grow in their counseling abilities—from reading and observing to certificate programs and formal degrees—and how to discern when it's time to pursue further training. ----- You’re going to love what our partner organization, Rode Leadership, is offering: the Pastor’s Wives Cohort — an eight-week virtual experience designed to nourish, connect, and equip women in ministry. Craving connection? Need support? Just want to breathe and grow alongside others in ministry? Sign up today at ⁠⁠rodeleadership.com/pwc⁠⁠ ---- For more information about Anchored Virtual, visit ⁠⁠⁠⁠anchoredvirtual.com

On this episode of This vs. That, we welcome back Yana Jenay Conner to explore the difficult but essential work of forgiveness in close friendships. We discuss why forgiveness matters so deeply in our faith and why it's such hard work when friends wound us. We examine what makes God's way of forgiveness different from our culture's approach, moving beyond self-centered freedom to an other-centered response that reflects the gospel. Yana shares how forgiveness in Christ flows from a place of freedom rather than just leading to freedom, drawing on the powerful example of Jesus washing Judas's feet. We also talk about the essential role of grief and lament in the forgiveness process, and why we need to fully acknowledge our pain before we can move forward. Finally, we tackle the tension between forgiving someone and holding them accountable, exploring how these two things aren't in opposition but can work together under the umbrella of seeking wholeness. Join us for this honest conversation about healing versus holding on, and discover what it looks like to do the hard work of forgiveness God's way.